[HN Gopher] DARPA solicitation for the Active Social Engineering...
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       DARPA solicitation for the Active Social Engineering Defense
       program (2017)
        
       Author : Jimmc414
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2025-02-05 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.highergov.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.highergov.com)
        
       | throwaway-blaze wrote:
       | To be fair, Thomson Reuters is a huge company, with the Reuters
       | news division being only one of the groups within. This may not
       | be anything but a clickbaity title on a grant.
       | 
       | This kerfuffle could be quickly solved if Thomson Reuters
       | published their grant proposal as submitted to and selected by
       | DARPA for this program.
        
       | ipunchghosts wrote:
       | DARPA has a rich history of doing fundamental research but today
       | its largely composed of engineering tasks which for whatever
       | reason arent built by the warfare centers. The days of doing
       | fundamental research are mostly gone in the organization. Name
       | something in the AI/ML space that came out of DARPA in the last
       | 15 years. CNNs- no, deep learning - no, attention - no, LLMs -
       | no, test time training - no.
       | 
       | Its a good engineering org these days building cool things but
       | there's nothing special about having darpa build it other than
       | they provide funds. The research focused has significantly waned
       | over the last 20 years which is a shame as there are LOTS of
       | fundamental AI/ML problems which no one is studying in industry.
        
         | whiplash451 wrote:
         | AI/ML is a solution, not a problem.
         | 
         | DARPA's mission is to define the problem space, not the
         | solution space.
        
           | ipunchghosts wrote:
           | YES! I should add that they should be thinking about
           | intelligence generally, not AI/ML.
        
           | jacobr1 wrote:
           | A good example of this was the grand challenge with
           | autonomous vehicles. It spurred all sorts of AI and Robotics
           | related innovation that spun into different directions.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | > there's nothing special about having darpa build it other
         | than they provide funds
         | 
         | DARPA chooses real world engineering/technical problems, and
         | then works closely with the external grantees that develop
         | possible solutions, to solve the problem together - rapidly.
         | Fundamental discoveries often come out of that kind of focused
         | well resourced problem solving, but it's not really the goal.
        
         | mometsi wrote:
         | > Name something in the AI/ML space that came out of DARPA in
         | the last 15 years.
         | 
         | Well, Caffe immediately comes to mind. It made it easy to
         | reproduce, benchmark, and iterate on all kinds of GPU
         | accelerated deep learning architectures, and a lot of PyTorch's
         | popularity was helped by emphasizing compatibility to make it
         | the successor to PyCaffe.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Guy walks into federal office, claims to be in charge, starts
       | plugging in his PC, demands authorization. "Social engineering"
       | or nah?
        
       | kevcampb wrote:
       | For context, this is likely related to an Elon Musk tweet earlier
       | today https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1887185381797343504 quoting
       | Ian Miles Cheong
       | 
       | > Can someone explain to me why the Department of Defense
       | provided $9,147,532.00 to Reuters for "ACTIVE SOCIAL ENGINEERING
       | DEFENSE (ASED) LARGE SCALE SOCIAL DECEPTION (LSD)"
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | I guess he has to ask twitter because he doesn't actually have
         | clearance to ask someone who would know
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | Narrator: he has clearance
           | 
           | Elon is aiming to inflame and rage bait by providing insight
           | into what the government authorizes payments for, without
           | context
           | 
           | Its working
        
             | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
             | In a very real sense, do you think its appropriate for
             | one's government actively attempt to social engineer the
             | population it is supposed to serve?
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | The grant is for "proposals in the area of automated
               | defense against social engineering attacks."
        
               | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
               | Would you be willing to expand on that definition?
               | 
               | Are you referring to this part[1]?
               | 
               | https://www.highergov.com/document/hr001117s0050-amendmen
               | t-0...
        
               | snypher wrote:
               | Maybe you missed the 'defence' part?
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | That's defense of the government apparatus in the same
               | sense as "Continuity Of Government" -- not defense of
               | constituents themselves.
        
               | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
               | Friend, I accept that there is a level of snark, when it
               | comes to this stuff, but even rudimentary check of the
               | website in question[1] will tell you that there are two
               | pieces to this program:
               | 
               | - ACTIVE SOCIAL ENGINEERING DEFENSE (ASED) - LARGE SCALE
               | SOCIAL DECEPTION (LSD)
               | 
               | I presume you are being snarky about ASED. I was thinking
               | about the other one.
               | 
               | https://www.usaspending.gov/award/CONT_AWD_FA865018C7886_
               | 970...
        
               | netbioserror wrote:
               | Was the Patriot Act patriotic?
        
             | netbioserror wrote:
             | Context provided by the vaunted journalists at Politico,
             | I'm sure.
        
             | kevcampb wrote:
             | If you read the proposal, this is for providing automated
             | defences against social engineering attacks - eg: phishing.
             | It's incredibly benign.
             | 
             | That's not how it's presented on Elon's twitter post,
             | certainly. The replies are just layers and layers of
             | conspiracy theories.
        
         | excalibur wrote:
         | It's literally an attempt to protect Americans against you,
         | Elon.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | IMC is a known Russian agent, a Malaysian national who openly
         | writes for Putin propaganda outlet RT. _Of course_ he wants to
         | defund American information security.
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | It is only possible to "socialy engineer" people who are genualy
       | unsatisfied with what they have and how they are living, and who
       | are looking for a prompt that will improve there lot. The
       | "solicitation" is absolute proof that the government has failed
       | to provide and support the most basic requirements for a stable
       | society, and is floundering around trying to spin the whole mess,
       | and blame someone else. And 10 mill to one of the major media
       | distributors is on top, of what is realy billions worth of free
       | media coverage for anything the government want to promote. Which
       | means they are panicking.Not that that isnt totaly obvious. They
       | should panic, a lot, because after bieng lied to and cheated for
       | generations now, many ordinary people have come to the reasonable
       | and rational conclusion, that in the face of informational chaos,
       | they can just go ahead and believe ANYTHING, that makes them feel
       | a bit better....for now....and then believe something else later,
       | maybe, or just make stuff up, that they believe, and there
       | friends like, and 27 min latter, its been seen by 37 million
       | others. And they like it, and speak directly to this, and are
       | doing it consiously ,and dont give a rats ass about most of what
       | is happening, and at any moment go bat shit crazy for some new
       | revolutionary type of chewy candy, and since china is the only
       | one who can tool up to make 4 billion dollors of candy overnight,
       | they will get the order, and china will mint another
       | billionair....happens every few days there is no defence
        
       | icegreentea2 wrote:
       | In case you didn't click through to the the pdf with details
       | (https://www.highergov.com/document/hr001117s0050-amendment-0...)
       | 
       | This program is basically asking for an AI interposer between
       | your employees and external communication. It wants the AI
       | interposer to determine if an interaction is likely to be a
       | social engineering attack, and if necessary to be able to
       | interact with the external party (potentially up to granting
       | access to pre-allocated "burner" resources) to gain additional
       | information (either to confirm adversary status, or gather
       | intelligence for further action).
       | 
       | It envisions some cute scenarios like somehow maybe there's an
       | series of attack coming from a specific source, perhaps the
       | system could determine that there is a single attack source, and
       | then employ various interaction strategies to try to degrade the
       | source's ability to act.
        
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       (page generated 2025-02-05 23:01 UTC)