[HN Gopher] Avoiding outrage fatigue while staying informed
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Avoiding outrage fatigue while staying informed
        
       Author : headalgorithm
       Score  : 414 points
       Date   : 2025-02-05 14:55 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
        
       | parliament32 wrote:
       | Personally, I fixed the problem by not bothering with "staying
       | informed" at all. I ditched media outside of local news entirely,
       | and just don't engage with things that I can't do anything about.
       | It would boil down to "focus on things you can control." Sure,
       | it's fun to be outraged together with your friends about "X
       | leader in Y country does Z crazy thing" but.. can you do anything
       | about it? Does your opinion matter? Is there value in engaging
       | with it? Turns out the answer is almost always no (unless you're
       | suffering from main-character-syndrome, of course), so what's the
       | point?
       | 
       | Focus on you. What are you doing today? What do you need to
       | reflect on from yesterday? What do you need to plan for tomorrow?
       | Don't waste cycles on things that are out of your scope.
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | There is an equilibrium to find. democracy isn't just showing
         | up every 4 or 5 years to drop a piece of paper in a box.
         | 
         | Most countries have rights to protest, organise, strike, for a
         | reason. Most of these rights were gained after long fights in
         | which single individual was meaningless but together they moved
         | contains. You have to know when to pull back but you also have
         | to know when to dive in
        
         | baal80spam wrote:
         | > It would boil down to "focus on things you can control"
         | 
         | If it only was so simple. How to define such things? Case in
         | point: the biggest "outrage factor" seems to be politics. Well
         | - _can_ you control your country's government? Yes, you can -
         | however not directly. And this means that "I don't care about
         | politics" stance is bad.
         | 
         | edit: spelling
        
           | parliament32 wrote:
           | It's an excellent point, but is there value in you (as an
           | American, I presume) being around-the-clock outraged for the
           | next four years? Or does it make sense for you to do some
           | research and make a decision in the few weeks leading up to
           | an election? What can you "control" here in the other 206
           | weeks of the current term?
           | 
           | I'm not saying you shouldn't care about politics at all. But
           | politics in a country you're not a citizen of are irrelevant.
           | And politics in your own country only really matter when it's
           | time to vote, right? So what's the value in "staying
           | informed" outside of that narrow window?
        
           | trimethylpurine wrote:
           | You can control it. But if you're controlling it based on the
           | media's interpretation then you are the one being controlled.
           | Turn off the TV and vote based on how things affect you
           | locally. I think that's what the previous commenter means.
        
           | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
           | Not that it would've ever changed my vote, but the candidate
           | was going to win my state regardless of how I voted. Even if
           | I and every other person who is psychologically capable of
           | choosing the other candidate... they were always going to win
           | this state. So no, I can't control my government. I've known
           | this a long while now, I'm not a fool.
           | 
           | >es, you can - however not directly. And this means that "I
           | don't care about politics" stance is bad.
           | 
           | Though you might not be aware of it, you're repeating
           | propaganda that actually aids some nebulous group of people.
           | It seeks to recruit me and my efforts to further their
           | purposes, none of which overlap my own significantly. I can't
           | exert significant indirect influence either. And if I were to
           | pool my insignificant influence with others (such as you
           | suggest) to influence government, it would almost certainly
           | be towards ends I do not agree with. I can be used by others,
           | so to speak, but no one's on _my side_.
           | 
           | I might get to watch one group I don't agree with go
           | killdozer on another group I don't agree with, and it will be
           | entertaining to watch supposing I can maintain enough
           | distance from the carnage.
        
           | keybored wrote:
           | Of course you can affect your country's government. You can
           | take five minutes every few years to decide who to vote for
           | (spending more on that seems like a waste of time considering
           | the payoff).
           | 
           | More than that though. You can protest and organize however
           | much you like. There's no cap on that.
           | 
           | And that is how insidious "news" is. The news broadcasts the
           | hegemonic mindset. The same mindset that says that citizens'
           | only role is to vote every few years. Other than that they
           | are supposed to stay home. Certainly not make a ruckus or
           | anything.
           | 
           | And that's what many conclude. That they are only supposed to
           | be political in a direct, consequential sense by voting. Then
           | it is clearly absurd, from a cost-benefit analysis
           | standpoint, to stay ever-constantly informed on politics all
           | the time.
        
         | cal85 wrote:
         | You can do all three: (1) focus on you etc, (2) take an
         | interest in global events, and (3) not get outraged. It really
         | is possible.
        
           | dageshi wrote:
           | Perhaps it depends on the individual, but I never found it
           | possible.
           | 
           | The news just made me sad, sad and angry most of the time,
           | it's just a stream of 24/7 misery and if there's not enough
           | misery going on locally the news will find misery from around
           | the world to fill the run time.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | What helped me is to realize: Sadness and anger come from
             | within, not from the outside. Nobody can "make" you mad.
             | They will do what they do, and it's up to us to decide if
             | and how to emotionally respond to it. We are not amoebas
             | that simply respond to stimulus. We have agency over our
             | own thoughts and feelings. This is something I try to teach
             | my kid, and I think it's also helped her deal with others
             | who she would previously say "made her mad."
        
               | dageshi wrote:
               | I think "deciding whether to emotionally respond" to
               | something... isn't emotion?
               | 
               | Emotion is something you feel, not something you decide
               | to allow yourself to feel.
               | 
               | Like, if I hear about someone being raped or murdered,
               | how am I not going to have an emotional reaction of
               | sadness or anger to that? And ultimately what use was
               | that emotion? I cannot prevent the event happening, it
               | has already happened, I am just a voyeur to someone
               | else's tragedy.
               | 
               | Most of the news is like that. It's events that have
               | already happened, that I can do nothing about but I'm
               | vaguely meant to be up to date with because.... reasons?
               | Some vague concept that everyone is meant to have an inch
               | deep understanding of current events so they've got
               | something to gossip about?
               | 
               | I truly don't see the point or the benefit.
        
               | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
               | > Emotion is something you feel, not something you decide
               | to allow yourself to feel.
               | 
               | Recognizing your emotions when you are making a decision
               | is key. The emotions you feel will largely be outside
               | your control but you can catch a thought you disagree
               | with when you have it and wonder what triggered that
               | thought. If the trigger was an emotion, you can wonder
               | what triggered the emotion. Ask "five whys" (google it if
               | you don't know what I mean). You have more control over
               | this than you seem to think; you will just have to
               | practice exercising it.
        
               | keybored wrote:
               | The simplest way to control your inner life is to not let
               | whatever miserable output in. In other words turn it off.
               | 
               | It's really entitled (by whom? who knows) to say that
               | people have control over their inner lives as a response
               | to the News being misery-inducing (according to them).
               | Yeah. So turn it off. You don't own the outside world
               | your attention.
        
         | DasCorCor wrote:
         | What am I doing today? Taking care of my son. Trying to have
         | another child. What do I need to plan for tomorrow? How am I
         | going to vaccinate my child next year? How do I get my wife
         | medical care if she has another unviable pregnancy? How small
         | of a life you must lead that you can just not engage.
        
           | parliament32 wrote:
           | All fair points. I'm having trouble understanding how this
           | relates to the outrage-centered media, however.
           | 
           | Current top stories on the CNN frontpage are:
           | 
           | > Trump's effort to end birthright citizenship is blocked
           | nationwide
           | 
           | > Trump's Gaza plan is the most outlandish in region's
           | peacemaking history
           | 
           | > China is building a giant laser to generate the energy of
           | the stars, satellite images appear to show
           | 
           | Is your child not a citizen? Are you child's vaccines related
           | to Gaza, somehow? Will China's laser affect your wife's
           | pregnancy?
           | 
           | Why do you feel the need to engage with this?
        
             | DasCorCor wrote:
             | So your argument to not engaging is that my argument isn't
             | sufficiently updated to the onslaught of news today? RFK
             | passed committee _yesterday_. Trump planning to use our
             | military for a middle east genocide isn't something that I
             | should worry about?!? Where were you on 9 /11?
        
               | Novosell wrote:
               | Will worrying stop Trump? I believe that is the
               | overarching point here.
               | 
               | Stressing over things you can't/won't impact is largely a
               | waste of time and energy. Your worry wont help Gaza.
        
         | Lendal wrote:
         | If you're a citizen of a democracy and you only focus on you,
         | then when it comes time to vote you'll be voting randomly. Or
         | maybe you don't vote and thereby cede control to your neighbors
         | to make decisions for you over the environment in which you
         | live. Assuming you decide to vote then, and since you don't
         | live in a vacuum, your vote will be based on whatever random
         | stuff leaked through to you during the time you were "focusing
         | on you". Actually it's not random. It's whoever spent the most
         | time and money on the propaganda that influences/buys your
         | vote.
         | 
         | So it's not really that simple is it?
        
           | FredPret wrote:
           | Democracy works if everyone votes for the thing(s) they care
           | about. You likely don't need a news site for information
           | about that.
        
             | master-lincoln wrote:
             | Except in most "democracies" there is no direct voting on
             | issues. Instead you vote for parties or people who you
             | believe align with your values. To find out about those
             | people/parties you probably need "news"
        
               | FredPret wrote:
               | How on earth do you need a newspaper to tell you which
               | political party aligns with your values?
               | 
               | Depending on where you live, there's 2-10 parties. You
               | know who they are and what they want. If you want to
               | affect the outcome you can get involved in your local
               | politics; being glued to NYT.com all day isn't changing
               | one thing except wasting time.
        
           | parliament32 wrote:
           | > when it comes time to vote you'll be voting randomly
           | 
           | Not at all, I think citizens have an obligation to vote, and
           | an obligation to do their research when it's time to vote.
           | But let's say that takes you a week. Why bother being focused
           | on the outrage during the rest of the term? What value is
           | there to you being mad at whatever politician on week 15 of
           | their 208 week term? If anything, I'd say "staying informed"
           | is a hinderance, because you'll always just be focused on the
           | issue-of-the-day and build mental biases rather than being
           | able to take a wider view of what the politician implemented,
           | and how it played out over a period of time afterwards.
           | 
           | Whether you're influenced by facts or "propaganda"
           | unfortunately depends entirely on your own research and
           | critical thinking skills, and has little to do with timing.
        
             | Lendal wrote:
             | There might not be much of a difference in your mental
             | health condensing 2-4 years' of rage into just one week.
             | 
             | Perhaps another strategy could be to maintain an awareness
             | of the motivations and tactics of publishers/content
             | creators, and that could be enough as an inoculation.
             | 
             | I imagine a clown on the street trying to enrage me, and I
             | being aware of what it's trying to do, instead just laugh
             | at it.
             | 
             | Today I walked into a restaurant with a cable TV news
             | channel blaring on about the "invasion of men" into women's
             | college sports. They offered no proof, just a continuous
             | barrage of commentary. As I waited for my sandwich I
             | watched one after another, with just continuous outrage. No
             | proof, no on-site reporters, no B tape, nothing at all to
             | support the claims being made. It was like watching bad
             | science fiction of an alternate universe. I chuckled
             | nervously as I looked around and wondered if the others
             | there actually believed it. None of them were laughing.
        
             | themacguffinman wrote:
             | Do you know about referendums? Recall elections? Snap
             | elections? Midterm elections? Strikes and protests? Or how
             | about just letting your representative know how you'll vote
             | in their next election to deter bad behavior they're
             | conducting in the current moment?
             | 
             | Must be nice for the current American administration to
             | have 4 years of no democratic oversight to do whatever they
             | want.
        
         | hkpack wrote:
         | Unfortunately, I'm not sure that it is a viable strategy long
         | term.
         | 
         | When you finally decide to pay attention, there is a chance
         | that you will not be able to easily absorb everything that
         | leads to the situation so you will lack any perspective of the
         | past events.
         | 
         | We live in an extremely dense and complex times, staying
         | informed is very difficult as it is even when you try to pay
         | attention.
        
       | throw0101c wrote:
       | >> _It 's been like what, only two weeks? This shit is exhausting
       | already._
       | 
       | > _It 's meant to exhaust you._
       | 
       | * https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1886247034664964548
       | 
       | Ezra Klein:
       | 
       | > _That is the tension at the heart of Trump's whole strategy:
       | Trump is acting like a king because he is too weak to govern like
       | a president. He is trying to substitute perception for reality.
       | He is hoping that perception then becomes reality. That can only
       | happen if we believe him. [...]_
       | 
       | > _What Trump wants you to see in all this activity is command.
       | What is really in all this activity is chaos. They do not have
       | some secret reservoir of focus and attention the rest of us do
       | not. They have convinced themselves that speed and force is a
       | strategy unto itself -- that it is, in a sense, a replacement for
       | a real strategy. Don't believe them._
       | 
       | * https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...
        
         | trimethylpurine wrote:
         | These quotes and articles are awful. Both sides are so insanely
         | annoying to me. The media has gotten completely out of touch
         | with reality and with people.
        
           | bende511 wrote:
           | What do you mean both sides???? only one side has empowered a
           | teenager who goes by "BigBalls" online to rewrite sensitive
           | Treasury payments processes with no oversight. The media is
           | out of touch with reality by not making this coup front page
           | news everyday
        
             | yostrovs wrote:
             | But what about the people who wrote the previous Treasury
             | payments processes? What were their nicknames? What were
             | their real names? Were you ever aware of how Treasury
             | processes payments before last week? Yet you seem to defend
             | those people and their actions.
        
               | bende511 wrote:
               | lol what the hell are you talking about
        
               | dgacmu wrote:
               | That's the point: We didn't need to, because they had a
               | process they followed and it worked. It was probably
               | fairly bureaucratic, which is reasonable when we're
               | talking about trillions of dollars. Treasury moves slowly
               | but they do move in the right direction - TreasuryDirect
               | was kinda early and had an absolute klunker of an
               | interface, but it's been improved a bit over time and is
               | now usable if still chonky. Federal and treasury-mediated
               | transfers went through. People's confidential payment
               | information wasn't disclosed. That's kind of what I and
               | most others ask of the treasury -- even if I occasionally
               | took to social media to scream about their terrible
               | password entry interface and the annoyance of dealing
               | with medallion guarantees. :-) And they got on FedNow
               | pretty quickly once it rolled out, though of course I
               | wish either the treasury or the fed had provided an
               | instant payments system like a decade earlier. (But
               | that's on the fed.)
               | 
               | But I'm OK with the idea that change speed is somewhat
               | inversely proportional to value at risk. Might be better
               | if it was 1/log(value).
        
               | throw0101c wrote:
               | > _Were you ever aware of how Treasury processes payments
               | before last week?_
               | 
               | Why _should_ anyone _have_ to care about the Treasury 's
               | Bureau of the Fiscal Service?
               | 
               | Are people aware of of how the Internet works? Are people
               | aware of how water and sewage work? The electrical grid?
               | 
               | If someone who just graduated high school started
               | flipping breakers at a substation would people think
               | that's a good idea?
        
               | lazyasciiart wrote:
               | Their nicknames were "I have been through thorough
               | background checks and I am a professional who runs my
               | changes through review and testing before they eventually
               | get deployed."
               | 
               | Seriously, do you know who does repairs on the sewer
               | lines where you live? No. Does that mean you're so
               | oblivious that you wouldn't be concerned by seeing half a
               | dozen young men without any safety gear or official logos
               | digging a six foot trench across the road outside your
               | house?
        
             | 33MHz-i486 wrote:
             | yes guy who won an election making changes to a department
             | within his purview is a "coup"
             | 
             | the media and people who take their bait are insufferable
        
               | DFHippie wrote:
               | > a department within his purview
               | 
               | That's not how it works in the U.S. If an executive
               | branch department was created by the legislature, it is
               | up to the legislature whether or not it exists, not the
               | executive. If the legislature has passed laws regarding
               | how its resources are to be used, its employees treated,
               | the executive is not free to disregard those laws.
               | 
               | The legislature is the source of laws in the U.S., not
               | the executive. The irony is that the Republicans control
               | the legislature as well. They could pass laws to achieve
               | what Musk wants. It would be slow, but it would be legal.
               | 
               | A coup is seizing power outside the legal mechanism for
               | doing so.
        
               | zo1 wrote:
               | Playing by those rules, it's nearly impossible to change
               | any big law or enact any drastic change to an existing
               | law unless you have some world-changing event. The rest
               | is just the slow march towards the mean which is
               | controlled by the people that can bully others into
               | silence and agreement. The mean is controlled by those
               | that control the conversation and by those career
               | politicians and bureaucrats that "play the game". Look
               | how magically everyone is agreeing to deporting violent
               | criminals, yet somehow we didn't all think that was the
               | right answer 6 months ago?
               | 
               | It's beyond me how so many of us think that continuously
               | ignoring the will of the people is "OK". Either tell me
               | my choice doesn't matter, or just shut up with the drama
               | and enact safe and fair referendums on _every single hot
               | topic_ so we can all get to the right answer and then if
               | we find we 're in the minority, we'll shut up.
               | 
               | It should be clear as day to anyone that is unbiased that
               | fixing the US/Mexican border was ridiculously easy (it's
               | essentially been done in 2 weeks and they didn't even
               | have to finish building their stupid wall). The only
               | reason it didn't happen till now was precisely because
               | the whole thing is broken and not really an expression of
               | the peoples' will. It was rather an expression of an
               | amalgamation of a giant mindless mass of bureaucrats, and
               | you can't fix it unless you do what they are doing now.
               | Not to single you out sorry, but opinions like yours ("we
               | gotta do it the legal way and according to rules x, y, z,
               | and 500 other rules") are precisely why nothing ever got
               | done or fixed properly. And I say that as someone that is
               | absolutely on board with following every rule to the T,
               | with no exceptions.
        
               | dralley wrote:
               | >It should be clear as day to anyone that is unbiased
               | that fixing the US/Mexican border was ridiculously easy
               | (it's essentially been done in 2 weeks and they didn't
               | even have to finish building their stupid wall). The only
               | reason it didn't happen till now was precisely because
               | the whole thing is broken and not really an expression of
               | the peoples' will.
               | 
               | Fixing the border happened 8 months ago. Nothing
               | meaningful has changed at the border since June 2024. The
               | only reason it took so long is that Biden wanted Congress
               | to do it rather than using probably-illegal executive
               | fiat powers, and eventually Biden got tired of waiting
               | and did it anyway after Trump told Congress to axe the
               | bipartisan border deal that bascially everybody but the
               | extremists on either side was on board with.
               | 
               | You can make an argument that Biden should have done it
               | by executive fiat even earlier, and that's your
               | prerogative. But the fact of the matter is that even once
               | a legislative fix was ready, _Trump_ and the Republicans
               | threw it away for no good reason, so that he could
               | continue campaigning on immigration. That, by the way, is
               | exactly  "not an expression of the peoples' will". That's
               | refusing to fix a problem for the sole purpose of
               | campaigning on that problem.
               | 
               | Much of Trump's governance is like an episode of reality
               | TV or WWE. Loud, flashy and mostly fake. Creating his own
               | problems to "solve" by changing nothing. Threaten Canada
               | and Mexico with tariffs then cancel them and declare
               | victory when they say they'll do something they were
               | already doing, e.g. Mexico deployed 10,000 Mexican troops
               | to their border years ago under an agreement with Biden.
               | Columbia accepted hundreds of deportation flights under
               | Biden, then Trump tries to use military aircraft to do it
               | and they say no, he makes threats then he declares
               | massive victory when the arrangement reverts to exactly
               | what was happening before.
        
               | DFHippie wrote:
               | > Playing by those rules
               | 
               | I agree that our system of government makes it extremely
               | difficult to enact large changes. That is by design,
               | however well considered that design might be.
               | Nevertheless, _those are the rules_. Which means the
               | president can 't _legally_ do whatever he wishes to
               | anything  "under his purview" upon gaining power.
               | 
               | Or rather, that was the case until the SCOTUS decided
               | there are no laws the president need respect. What they
               | have not pronounced upon is whether the law binds anyone
               | acting under the direction of the president. Does their
               | invention merely protect the president from prosecution
               | or does it abrogate all laws he finds inconvenient? I
               | find it hard to believe they'll take the second step, but
               | we'll probably find out pretty soon. Is Musk a monarch or
               | merely our president?
        
               | 33MHz-i486 wrote:
               | we were talking about operational access to the payment
               | system. you are conflating the situation at USAID which
               | may or may not by illegal, idk.
               | 
               | the legislative branch can form administrative
               | departments and prescribe their function however the
               | president has already defined powers to impound funds and
               | remove senior administrative officers and appoint/remove
               | low-level staff. how these things intersect will be
               | sorted be the courts.
               | 
               | executive actions (by-passing what should be legislation)
               | have been increasing the last few decades. the various
               | media companies plainly do make choices to portray some
               | actions as nothingburger or crisis depending on their
               | political alignment with the party in power.
               | 
               | the issue with the left-media and Trump is they outrage
               | clickbait a bunch of events that are insignificant in
               | terms of outcomes. Should they alarm about Jan6 yes.
               | should they alarm over minor personnel at treasury or
               | some dumb unserious thing Trump said at a press
               | conference, no. This is how the media loses all trust in
               | themselves broadly.
        
               | trimethylpurine wrote:
               | It's actually not up to the legislature anymore. And
               | that's a huge problem in this country. The legislature
               | exited stage left by handing way too many powers and
               | responsibilities over to the executive branch. Now the
               | courts determine if the executive branch has been
               | previously allowed by congress to do something stupid or
               | not. By the time the legislature can agree on exercising
               | power on one item or another, the shit has already hit
               | the fan.
               | 
               | It doesn't need to be a coup. Congress sold us out to
               | presidents long before most of us were born.
        
         | okeuro49 wrote:
         | Looking at the States from the UK. I would love to have Trump.
         | 
         | Exhilarating and optimistic change from the horrible oppression
         | that has existed for a long time.
         | 
         | In the UK you lose your job, or get a policeman showing up at
         | the door if you post the wrong opinion online.
         | 
         | What I particularly like about Trump, is he is defunding the
         | anti-democratic NGO industrial complex.
         | 
         | Regular people have to exist in the real economy, and have
         | political opinions in their own time. The NGO complex, on the
         | other hand, creates jobs for activist who campaign using tax
         | money, isolated from any consequences of their decisions. It's
         | a big problem in the UK too.
        
           | bende511 wrote:
           | you already had Boris Johnson and Liz Truss. what more
           | immiseration could you really be hoping for
        
             | okeuro49 wrote:
             | They're nothing like Trump? You should research what
             | happened to Liz Truss.
        
               | wesselbindt wrote:
               | Since you're asking, yes they are. Johnson is a right
               | wing populist, and Liz Truss recently spoke at a far
               | right conference, complaining about the deep state
               | thwarting her plan. They're Trump without the funny
               | accent.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | Parent is probably noting that neither is now in office,
               | in part or whole due to their stupidity and criminality.
        
             | meheleventyone wrote:
             | The guys a fan of Tommy Robinson (at least from a glance
             | over his post history) so y'know they probably weren't
             | extreme enough.
        
               | bende511 wrote:
               | well yeah, i was gonna say, with an actual Nazi (like
               | Tommy), add some mid-stage dementia, and there you go.
               | Also, Elon is getting pretty involved in the UK, so this
               | piece of shit will probably be pretty happy by the end of
               | the year
        
           | bloopernova wrote:
           | What sort of opinions?
        
             | okeuro49 wrote:
             | Have a look at Free Speech Union UK for some examples.
        
               | bloopernova wrote:
               | Why not just paste some and link to their source?
        
             | kaimac wrote:
             | These days if you say you're English you'll be arrested and
             | thrown in jail
        
               | philk10 wrote:
               | total bollocks
        
               | kaimac wrote:
               | You can't say anything these days Phil
        
             | xnorswap wrote:
             | These days, if you say you're English, you get arrested and
             | thrown in jail.
             | 
             | ( - Stewart Lee's taxi driver, over a decade ago. )
        
               | philk10 wrote:
               | total bollocks
        
               | xnorswap wrote:
               | I think Stewart Lee knew and understood that when he
               | incorporated it into his comedy routine.
        
           | wesselbindt wrote:
           | This happens in the US too [1,2,3]. In fact, regarding
           | freedom of the press, they rank 55th in the world, well
           | behind the UK, which ranks 23rd [4]. And if you think Trump
           | is anything but the standard neoliberal order accelerated,
           | I've got a bridge to sell you. For example look at the Laken
           | Riley act. A blatant and complete teardown of judicial order
           | (punishment for being _suspected_ of crimes), and 58
           | democrats helped pass it. Trump is par for the course, he's
           | just a bit rude about it.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2024/05/10/texas-ut-
           | lecturer-ar...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240425-more-
           | than-100...
           | 
           | [3] https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-
           | officers-us...
           | 
           | [4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Freedom_Index
        
             | okeuro49 wrote:
             | I'm comparing the UK with ten years ago.
        
           | philk10 wrote:
           | Thatcher was bad enough as was Boris and you want worse than
           | them?
        
       | softwaredoug wrote:
       | One thing is read the article, not just the headline. Get the
       | nuance, learn what's actually happening, see what people are
       | doing to react. You'll not feel as frozen if you understand that
       | a fluid situation has many directions it can take and it's not
       | set in stone.
        
         | smgit wrote:
         | "In an information-rich world, the wealth of information means
         | a dearth of something else: a scarcity of whatever it is that
         | information consumes. What information consumes is rather
         | obvious: it consumes the attention of its recipients. Hence a
         | wealth of information creates a poverty of attention"
         | 
         | Platforms have realized this long ago, that as info explodes
         | people pay attention to the easiest things to pay attention too
         | not the hardest, so they move resources to designing things
         | like reels and shorts and tweets etc etc. Every earnings call
         | they gloat about how shorter form content is exploding and how
         | thrilled they are about it.
         | 
         | The long form stuff only holds attention of the majority if you
         | keep throwing Novelty on the table every two sentences.
         | 
         | Platforms are basically running an animal domestication
         | program, where people have been rewarded with high rep and
         | status for extremely low cognitive work.
         | 
         | So that entire group that has benefited doesn't see any need
         | for nuance and depth in anything. "Cause look how many likes,
         | clicks, views and followers I have accumulated without it"
        
         | etblg wrote:
         | As one of the seemingly few people who actually do read the
         | article and not just the headline, it makes all the discussion
         | people have around news infuriating.
         | 
         | Most articles I come across have a very fiery headline, then
         | you dig in to the article and the facts are different, and/or
         | the sources are dubious, and/or there's historical precedent
         | for the thing that makes it not seem so strange this time,
         | and/or the article doesn't dive deeply enough in to the
         | details, etc.
         | 
         | Political biases and current events aside, it all sucks! It's
         | so annoying that I have to do the legwork of reading through
         | the article carefully and following through in factchecking
         | outside of the article to get the meat of it out, and after all
         | that, it feels like no one else does the same.
        
           | macrocosmos wrote:
           | If you ever read an article about something you are
           | knowledgeable about you might find that the content is just
           | as misleading or downright wrong as the headline.
        
       | Fin_Code wrote:
       | Just view a topic on Reddit then on X. You can't be outraged both
       | ways and it should cancel out.
        
         | darthrupert wrote:
         | This more than doubles the outrage. You'll have to hate
         | yourself for being so mistaken before.
        
       | comrade1234 wrote:
       | I basically just get my news from the onion now.
        
         | addandsubtract wrote:
         | Onion news are just news from the future.
        
         | smcnally wrote:
         | A recent financial report on the media industry noted The Onion
         | is on the verge of collapse due to, quote, "not being able to
         | able to make sh*t up that is more idiotic than current
         | reality."
        
       | yowayb wrote:
       | Those of us in the west tend to forget that much of what we see
       | is a form of propaganda, whether by governments or businesses, or
       | even a large number of people. When you keep this in mind,
       | everything you see becomes an opinion and your mind can
       | comfortably (or at least not emotionally/hurriedly) form your own
       | opinion over time.
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | Easier said than done. Bear in mind that the way information is
         | served is meant to trigger strong emotional responses, skip the
         | prefrontal cortex and tickle your amygdala. You can limit how
         | much it impacts you, say, through reducing exposure, but you
         | can't reason your way out of it.
         | 
         | (this is a response to the comment, not the article)
        
         | browningstreet wrote:
         | I agree that most messaging is propaganda, but that doesn't
         | really counter the real pain that is being inflicted upon large
         | populations of people by these government (and corporate)
         | moves, and being cheered on by pretty large masses of people.
         | The propaganda is like environmental pollution -- hard not to
         | breathe it in. That said, I have no answer here..
        
           | breakingrules3 wrote:
           | my advice to you that cant breathe it in is leave your
           | fantasy where propaganda is pollution and join reality where
           | it does not impact you. also if you live in reality instead
           | of the fantasy, you will just be less outraged in general.
        
             | anticorporate wrote:
             | You realize that pursuading people to accept terrible acts
             | as normal and not outrageous is the primary aim of much
             | propaganda, correct?
        
               | seneca wrote:
               | The aim of propaganda is not anywhere near singular. Much
               | of it is also aimed at convincing you that minor things
               | are "terrible acts" that you need to be outraged about.
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | Name one.
        
               | seattle_spring wrote:
               | Name one... what?
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | So you say, do exactly what authors of propaganda are
             | trying to achieve and let them do what they want.
             | 
             | Also, I am impacted by legal system, by lawlessness for
             | some, by environment pollution, by Healthcare system ...
        
           | jfkrrorj wrote:
           | How about you read actual news, not already half-digested
           | propaganda vomit? You do not have to live in polluted
           | wasteland of western media propaganda! Big media failed 1000x
           | since war on terror, and Bush lies, yet you still consume
           | their shit!
           | 
           | Simplest way is to read media from independent country. India
           | is good, perhaps Arabic countries.
           | 
           | Next level are independent channels on Telegram and Youtube.
           | 10 min daily summary on war situation goes very long way.
        
             | justin66 wrote:
             | > Simplest way is to read media from independent country.
             | India is good, perhaps Arabic countries.
             | 
             | It's interesting that you listed India first. The English-
             | language news source that pops up most often via Google
             | News is the Hindustan Times, which is hot garbage. Are
             | there any Indian sources that are much, much better than
             | that which you recommend?
        
               | jfkrrorj wrote:
               | Honestly no idea, I followed this rabbit hole many years
               | ago.
               | 
               | Hindustan times seems like a rag, like British Sun.
               | 
               | I guess I would recommend to take some event that
               | happened 2 years ago, find how some papers wrote about it
               | back then, and if you like it, follow them.
               | 
               | My point is there is no reason to stay in toxic
               | relationship. There is no reason to read news if you do
               | not get any rewards. Even monthly AI summaries will be
               | better, and you will stay "informed".
               | 
               | For example all the Trump shit today, he wants legal
               | precedents from constitutional court, 90% of this shit is
               | irrelevant.
        
           | gadders wrote:
           | There was just as much "large pain" being inflicted on people
           | in the previous 4 years, it just didn't affect you
           | personally.
        
             | braiamp wrote:
             | Dude, lets be real here: most people would say the economy
             | is shit, while still being comfortable with their lives.
             | Anyone's general assessment of the economy based on gut, is
             | meaningless. Unless you were on food banks/stamps, you were
             | doing pretty good for all intents and purposes.
        
               | lazyeye wrote:
               | This statement is ridiculously out of touch.
        
               | HEmanZ wrote:
               | There is a massive amount of evidence that Americans
               | basically think everyone else is having a terrible time,
               | but asked to review their own living situation things are
               | going well. Here's a decent summary from late 2024:
               | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/23/opinion/biden-trump-
               | vibec...
               | 
               | Instead of engaging in the data, opponents usually yell
               | the equivalent of what you put "You're just out of
               | touch!" Or throw in an anecdote like "well my cousin is
               | having a terrible time!".
               | 
               | What's going on the US is weirder than a "normal"
               | economic problem. That's what makes it so frustrating and
               | politically polarizing.
        
               | lazyeye wrote:
               | Sorry but quoting the NYTimes as evidence would be no
               | different from a Republican quoting Fox News as evidence
               | to you.
               | 
               | Here's an old quote from the author, the esteemable Paul
               | Krugman
               | 
               | "The growth of the Internet will slow drastically, as the
               | flaw in 'Metcalfe's law'--which states that the number of
               | potential connections in a network is proportional to the
               | square of the number of participants--becomes apparent:
               | most people have nothing to say to each other! By 2005 or
               | so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on
               | the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."
        
             | slg wrote:
             | Statements like this seem to originate in that environment
             | polluted by propaganda that the previous comment mentions.
             | For example, I genuinely don't know how someone can look at
             | something like the dismantling of USAID as anything but an
             | increase in "large pain". Sure, there are almost certainly
             | individual programs within that organization that are
             | wasteful and aren't the best use of our tax dollars, but
             | there is (or at least was as of a few weeks ago) broad
             | bipartisan support for this type of investment in humanity
             | and stopping it will clearly inflict pain on people and
             | this administration is at best indifferent to that pain.
        
               | HEmanZ wrote:
               | Just using your example tho, I feel there are two kinds
               | of framing.
               | 
               | 1. This is literally a worse outcome than the alternative
               | you prefer. You should care enough to try to fight it
               | politically, especially if you are well positioned to do
               | so.
               | 
               | 2. This case (and 99% of cases of political outrage I see
               | on the news) is trivial in the context of what is
               | "normal" for human political history, even the political
               | history that many people alive today were around for.
               | 
               | Will this even register as a trivia question in 100
               | years? Is a framing I ask myself when I'm mad about
               | something in the world.
               | 
               | I think a lot of people walked from a world where they
               | had no idea what the normal tumult of human political
               | society is like, even normal American political
               | messiness, and into the world of 24/7 current political
               | news without any context what came before. It's like, the
               | sausage has always been made this way, you're just now
               | finding out.
               | 
               | I say these things and it always pisses people off. But I
               | don't recommend not caring, the world moves forward one
               | micrometer at a time by caring, it's just not worth the
               | existential angst I see so often.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | >2. This case (and 99% of cases of political outrage I
               | see on the news) is trivial in the context of what is
               | "normal" for human political history, even the political
               | history that many people alive today were around for.
               | 
               | >Will this even register as a trivia question in 100
               | years? Is a framing I ask myself when I'm mad about
               | something in the world.
               | 
               | To me, this is an utterly nihilistic framing that renders
               | one's entire life meaningless because the logic doesn't
               | just apply to bad things. Like why did you even leave
               | this comment? Maybe you or I remember for a little while.
               | Maybe a handful of other people who read it will too. But
               | no one is going to remember it, let alone genuinely care
               | about what either of us said 100 years from now.
        
               | HEmanZ wrote:
               | How are you making the jump from calibrating your
               | emotional response to distant political changes that have
               | no immediate significance on your own life, are par for
               | humanity, and don't matter in the long run, to nihilism
               | in your immediate experience of meaning?
               | 
               | I don't connect distant political to my own personal
               | experience of meaning in the world, so i can't follow
               | this line of reasoning.
        
               | magicalist wrote:
               | > _Will this even register as a trivia question in 100
               | years?_
               | 
               | My family could be murdered in front of me and it
               | wouldn't qualify as a trivia question for you or most
               | other people in one year. This feels like a version of
               | stoicism that missed the point of stoicism.
        
               | HEmanZ wrote:
               | You're making such an absurd comparison in situations.
               | The death of your own family has an immediate and extreme
               | impact on you personally.
               | 
               | 99% of what you see on the news you would never know
               | happened if it wasn't presented to you.
               | 
               | And I'm not saying not to care. I'm saying put big things
               | into perspective. You don't need to become catatonically
               | depressed because the US changed its foreign aid in a way
               | that you would never know about unless presented to you.
               | 
               | As I write this I'm thinking about one of my best
               | friends, who literally has been so depressed because of
               | world news he reads on Reddit this year that he can't get
               | out of bed, stopped going to work and got fired. There
               | are appropriate and healthy levels to care about things.
        
             | guelo wrote:
             | I need examples
        
             | scelerat wrote:
             | Examples, please.
             | 
             | If you are trans, you were just de-personed by executive
             | order and your passport was invalidated. If you also
             | happened to be an incarcerated female, you are being
             | transferred to male facilities. These are actions which
             | will have life-altering consequences.
             | 
             | That's only one thing among many others (ICE immigrant
             | raids which also sweep up legal immigrants and citizens who
             | don't "look American") just in the first few days. What
             | "large pain" are you talking about?
        
               | genewitch wrote:
               | so things that affect less than 1% in the former and less
               | than 0.01% in the latter, of the population, that's what
               | we're basing "large pain" on? I'm not entirely sure you
               | want to play this game.
               | 
               | edit: and vis a vis the USAID thing the former president
               | of Kenya summed it up "Why you are crying? you don't pay
               | american taxes! we need to take care of ourselves!"
               | https://www.msn.com/en-xl/africa/other/us-aid-suspension-
               | wak...
        
               | ldipj wrote:
               | It's only incarcerated males who are being moved to the
               | male prison estate, in accordance with their sex.
        
           | keybored wrote:
           | Is your comment propaganda?
        
         | crispyambulance wrote:
         | I had used ublock-origin on youtube to disable the right-hand
         | sidebar of "recommended" videos so that I could just view the
         | stuff in my subscriptions. A couple of years ago, they started
         | detecting and blocking ublock-origin, so I stopped using it
         | (ublock).
         | 
         | It's not really the ads that bother me. It's the "recommended
         | videos". Is there a way to customize my view of youtube to
         | avoid the shit I don't need to see?
         | 
         | The thing about youtube is that it's very easy for
         | propaganda/click-bait to creep in during moments of weakness.
         | 
         | Maybe it's time to go cold-turkey? Failing that, maybe it's
         | worth it to try and take some control over the experience?
        
           | andrewflnr wrote:
           | Slide the right side of the window off the screen, maybe?
           | Dirty tricks are allowed.
           | 
           | I'm very aggressive with the "not interested" and "don't
           | recommend this channel" buttons, and over time it does mostly
           | get rid of the most obnoxious recs. Right now it's also not
           | recommending much good stuff, either, so YMMV.
        
           | pavon wrote:
           | For youtube, you can put the video in theater mode, which
           | makes the video the full width of your window, and pushes
           | recommendations down below it. With this I only ever see
           | recommendations at the end of the video.
           | 
           | As a general solution for us techies, you can have user
           | defined style sheets that selectively override the site's
           | CSS, either using a plugin like Stylus, or Firefox's built-in
           | userContent.css. Inspect the website, find the id name (or
           | class if it is unique enough) for the content you want to go
           | away and put the following in your user CSS.
           | #<id> {           display: hidden;        }
           | 
           | I have so many of these. There is some upkeep with redesign,
           | and for some sites with high churn I've given up, but in
           | general it makes the web much more tolerable.
        
           | ranger207 wrote:
           | There's a browser addon, Enhancer for Youtube, that lets you
           | hide recommended videos, among other things
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | I recommend: <https://lawrencehook.com/rys/>
        
           | adishy wrote:
           | there's actually a great "hidden" way to disable the youtube
           | homepage and shorts across platforms - turn off youtube's
           | watch history feature (myactivity.google.com > youtube
           | history)
           | 
           | I've found that over time this chokes the recommendation
           | system - makes it boring and it now finally refuses to show
           | me any video recommendations on my youtube homepage - just a
           | message asking me to turn history on. of course, you lose
           | your watch history, but I just bookmark the videos I like
           | anyway.
           | 
           | Videos related to the one you're watching may appear, but imo
           | these tend to be based on your subscriptions / more focused /
           | less rabbit-holey (and you can disable those with extensions
           | and such as well).
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | It's so disappointing, because "recommended" used to be
           | brilliant to find stuff similar-ish to what you're watching.
           | 
           | But these days half of it is outrage bait, ranging from "WOKE
           | LIBTARD GETS DESTROYED" to "TRUMP LOSES HIS MIND", or
           | malicious clickbait like "you won't believe what the cast if
           | $tv_show looks like now" with some AI generated thing of one
           | cast member being horribly maimed. Even on stuff that has
           | nothing to do with any of that, like some music video.
           | 
           | And whether "Trump loses his mind" is something you agree or
           | disagree with doesn't even matter - I'm just here to listen
           | to some music, maybe watch a funny video or two. To take a
           | break from all of that. It's become so pervasive that it's
           | just exhausting.
           | 
           | So normal people like you or me just withdraw. And the only
           | people who don't are the hyper-politicised who never grow
           | tired of talking of $favourite_issue, which tend to be rather
           | less reasonable or open to nuance. And this feedback loop
           | just makes things worse and worse.
           | 
           | This, in a nutshell, is why you need moderation. People talk
           | about "enshittification" of platforms, but IMO the bigger
           | problem is more the "cuntification" of platforms, where a
           | small number of extremely unpleasant and vitriolic people
           | chase off many people who don't want to deal with that. X.com
           | is a well-known example, but also online games where you're
           | matched with random people (where you very quickly learn a
           | great deal about your mother's sex life).
        
             | jkubicek wrote:
             | > But these days half of it is outrage bait, ranging from
             | "WOKE LIBTARD GETS DESTROYED" to "TRUMP LOSES HIS MIND", or
             | malicious clickbait like "you won't believe what the cast
             | if $tv_show looks like now" with some AI generated thing of
             | one cast member being horribly maimed. Even on stuff that
             | has nothing to do with any of that, like some music video.
             | 
             | I don't know what I'm doing differently than you, but I
             | don't see ANY of that. The worst, most clickbaity Youtube
             | content I see is poorly done rip-offs of Primitive
             | Technology.
        
               | arp242 wrote:
               | First example I tried:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLF-f4kUtAw
               | 
               | 7th recommended is " "YOU WILL BE INDICTED AND JAILED! "
               | Jim Jordan SILENCE Overconfident Hillary Clinton"
               | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbqHVba3Ohs)
               | 
               | I'm not logged in. I don't save cookies.
               | 
               | Unfortunately my regular internet has an outage and I
               | need to rely on a mobile hotspot which YouTube seems to
               | throttle with 20 second delays on everything, so looking
               | for more examples is a bit painful at the moment. But
               | having 1 to 3 of this kind of thing is common.
        
           | bashfulpup wrote:
           | Clear your history often. My youtube is actually incredible,
           | massive variety and useful topics.
           | 
           | I clear it about once every 2 weeks or month depending on how
           | many of the same topics I see.
           | 
           | It works really well in that if you ignore the content you
           | saw before it forces the algorithm to find unique content
           | because it thinks you don't like the stuff you've seen.
           | 
           | That and cleaning your subscription list. Easily the best
           | platform I have as of now because of that.
        
           | godshatter wrote:
           | I go to extremes compared to most others, but I log into YT
           | with a browser profile where history is not kept and don't
           | log in. The front page is basically empty. I have a local web
           | page with links to creators whose content I enjoy. I check
           | out one of my favorite creators and see what new videos they
           | have to offer. The benefit of this is that the first few
           | rounds of recommendations are actually mildly useful since
           | the algorithm knows nothing about you and you haven't showed
           | it much for it to use since I'm usually logging in through a
           | vpn.
           | 
           | It's crazy that the best experience (for me, anyway) is
           | achieved by giving it the least amount of information
           | possible.
        
         | lawn wrote:
         | The danger with this way of thinking is that it's easy to start
         | weighing all information equally, while that's _very_ far from
         | the reality.
        
           | lordfrito wrote:
           | If everything I read online [that I don't pay for] is a form
           | of propaganda, then the only choice I have is to either: 1)
           | weight all information equally 2) bias information based on
           | [personal beliefs XYZ]
           | 
           | I'm trying hard to do #1, mainly because #2 is confirmation
           | bias (and reinforces it).
           | 
           | What other options are there?
        
             | lawn wrote:
             | You could for instance consider actual facts? Because 100%
             | of what you read online is in fact not propaganda.
             | 
             | Then you might find that some sources are filled with lies
             | and others contain a lot more facts.
             | 
             | Then you'd naturally weight facts from the more trustworthy
             | source higher.
             | 
             | The next step is a "web of trust" where a new source will
             | be more trustworthy if it's linked to by other trustworthy
             | sources.
             | 
             | So in the end you'd rank information from Russia Today (one
             | of Russia's main propaganda channels) as very low, a
             | comment from a random redditor low, and a comment on
             | physics by a renowned physicist as very high
             | trustworthiness.
        
               | lordfrito wrote:
               | > Because 100% of what you read online is in fact not
               | propaganda.
               | 
               | This isn't even close to true. Facts are facts, and
               | stories are propaganda. What we call "news" is largely
               | just "stories" (opinion/editorials) about facts -- the
               | story is the propaganda - the story weaves the facts
               | together in a narrative, the narrative tells us how to
               | feel and think. Stories cost $$$, and those promoting
               | them are absolutely promoting some stories over others.
               | They have a message to send -- that message is
               | propaganda.
               | 
               | You mention a comment from a "random redditor" is low
               | value -- I'm suggesting that nearly every "major"
               | narrative spun on Reddit has been largely placed there by
               | forces with deep pockets and axes to grind, and the true
               | believers and other useful idiots that follow blindly.
               | It's all astroturfing, and Reddit is an absolute garbage
               | dump of discussion. Anyone that goes there thinking
               | they're getting an accurate picture of the world around
               | them is seriously deluded. I'm convinced those that run
               | Reddit do this by design. We know who runs Twitter, and
               | Facebook. No one talks about who is running Reddit.
               | 
               | A "comment on physics by a renowned physicist" is still
               | just a comment -- there are facts in physics, and
               | theories. Even renowned physicists can be wrong when it
               | comes to the theories they back. And honestly [coming
               | back to the point of the article] that's not what's
               | causing people to feel outrage -- they're not doom
               | scrolling physics forums outraged about dark matter or a
               | theory of everything -- they're doom scrolling an endless
               | stream of political/cultural propaganda designed to
               | outrage them and keep them addicted.
               | 
               | The world isn't nearly as black and white as the internet
               | would have you believe it is.
               | 
               | Point me to a source of political/cultural news that you
               | believe is full of fact and not just another site full of
               | opinions pieces and editorializing around the facts.
        
         | root_axis wrote:
         | Would you consider your own comment to be a form of propaganda?
         | I'm genuinely asking.
        
         | lordfrito wrote:
         | > everything you see becomes an opinion and your mind can
         | comfortably (or at least not emotionally/hurriedly) form your
         | own opinion over time
         | 
         | I agree (I've done this), but it's much easier said than done.
         | Requires a lot of mental work/training.
         | 
         | More importantly, it requires a sort of mental "enlightenment"
         | to the true state of things.. That everything you read for free
         | on the internet is being paid for by someone, with their own
         | motivation and intents, and that these forces don't have your
         | best interest in mind. The saying "If you're watching it, then
         | it was intended for _you_ " comes to mind. Once this
         | breakthrough occurs and you begin to see the world this way,
         | everything else usually follows.
         | 
         | As you begin to realize that most of your facts and opinions
         | are those planted there by other powerful ($$$) forces, you
         | start to recognize that what you think is largely what they
         | want you to think. But the scariest part of the awakening is
         | that you begin to realize how little you _truly_ know about the
         | world outside your direct experience. You feel much less
         | certain about the world and your place in it.
         | 
         | Most of the people I know recognize this, and I can have sane
         | conversation with them. You can tell those that are caught up
         | in the propaganda because they largely sound like parrots, and
         | it's impossible to talk to them reasonably. A few friends of
         | mine are in this category, and the one common denominator
         | between them is that they are deeply unhappy, riddled with
         | anxiety, and glued to their devices. The true human casualties
         | of the new technological information age we've birthed. It
         | appears that this is by design, as those that control the flow
         | for information know exactly the power they have and what they
         | intend to do with it.
         | 
         | For those that are stuck, I wish I knew how to open their eyes
         | up and look around them. It's not too bad when you look at the
         | world outside of the internet. I've tried to listen
         | empathetically to people that are stuck, but it mostly doesn't
         | help. Their minds are hamsters spinning on wheels, unable to
         | stop or hear any thing else from the outside. One or two have
         | woken up only after the anxiety it produces begins to interfere
         | with their real lives and relationships, It's a form of
         | addiction, and unfortunately many people are stubborn and will
         | double down on their addiction time after time until they hit
         | rock bottom.
         | 
         | We're in the middle of a massive mental health crisis. I hate
         | knowing that a not-insignificant portion of our fellow citizens
         | are rapidly heading towards some sort of mental/emotional rock
         | bottom caused by technology... I feel powerless to do anything
         | about it as I've watched it slowly unfold over the last decade
         | or so -- it's nearly impossible to reach the friends and family
         | members that you're actually close to. I don't know what can be
         | done other than sit back and wait for them to crash, and help
         | them pick up the pieces when that time comes.
         | 
         | Anyone got any good advice?
        
         | Epa095 wrote:
         | This reminds me of two quotes:
         | 
         | "The point of modern propaganda isn't only to misinform or push
         | an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to
         | annihilate truth." -Garry Kasparov.
         | 
         | And
         | 
         | "This constant lying is not aimed at making the people believe
         | a lie, but at ensuring that no one believes anything anymore."
         | This latter quote is, rather ironically, a false quote!
         | (falsely attributed to Hannah Arendt). But I still think it
         | contains truth.
        
         | godshatter wrote:
         | I was looking for a take on this that was more than just
         | finding ways not to be inundated.
         | 
         | You don't have to get outraged about something when you think
         | about how that particular article might be trying to fan those
         | flames and how what is reported might just be highlighting the
         | points that push our buttons (but the real set of facts might
         | not be as bad when looked into). Even the things that really
         | are that bad don't have to lead to outrage. I take a wait-and-
         | see attitude about a lot of this stuff we see in the media.
         | There are trolls everywhere, we'll see if anything comes of it.
         | I'm also capable of not liking something strongly without
         | feeling rage with regards to it, while still wanting to combat
         | it if I have a say in it at all.
         | 
         | Of course, "just don't let it get to you" is easy to say but
         | hard to implement. I think it's the only real path that allows
         | the inclusion of social media in our lives, though.
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | It ostensibly used to be better in the US, and then the smith--
         | mundt act was changed/repealed and now who knows.
         | 
         | I do like the "that's just like, your opinion, man" as an
         | answer to news stories, though.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Avoid following the news constantly. Check in every once in a
       | while--a couple times a week at most. Get your news from long
       | articles, not tweets. Actually read the articles, don't just
       | learn about the world from hot takes.
       | 
       | > ... people have found that, actually, outrage can be useful. It
       | actually can help you identify a problem and react to it. But it
       | can also be harmful if you're experiencing it all the time and
       | become overwhelmed by it.
       | 
       | I'm reading that as meaning something more like _identify a
       | problem and act on it_. Outrage itself is a reaction, just not a
       | positive one. There 's no shortage of people reacting to things.
        
         | joshdavham wrote:
         | > Avoid following the news constantly. Check in every once in a
         | while--a couple times a week at most.
         | 
         | Agreed. I personally believe that checking the news everyday is
         | akin to something like a 'news overdose'. There's nothing wrong
         | with spending just 15 minutes per week. At least for me, that's
         | a far healthier dose.
        
           | pavon wrote:
           | I wish there were more news sources that enabled this. There
           | is so much focus being first to cover a story, and dripping
           | out information. My local newspaper had a website redesign a
           | couple years ago, and completely eliminated the chronological
           | story view. I literally have no idea how to browse stories
           | older than what is currently on their main page for the day.
           | There are some great national weekly papers but they all
           | assume you've already heard the daily news and instead focus
           | on supplementing it with deep dives on selected issues, and
           | don't provide any summary that can be used as a primary news
           | source.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | Indeed, 40 years ago, if we weren't getting our news from the
           | TV, we quite often got it via weekly news magazines and
           | Sunday newspapers.
        
             | jonathanlb wrote:
             | Someone I spoke with recently mentioned that it used to be
             | that you could read a newspaper end-to-end and feel like
             | you were informed. Now, it's an endless stream of
             | information. I would posit that our brains weren't intended
             | to consume that much information, but I'll leave that as
             | uninformed speculation.
        
               | genewitch wrote:
               | "used to be"? when? I had an L.A. Times subscription in
               | high school and there was no way, even with 2 hours of
               | bus ride a day plus lunch and breaks to finish that
               | paper.
               | 
               | I think a lot of discourse is colored by the midwest. The
               | midwest influenced movies (what does a US neighborhood
               | look like? are there hills/trees/snow?), TV, radio, and
               | literature. I imagine midwest newspapers to be like
               | southern newspapers, 2-3 broadsheets per section if that.
               | 
               | I wonder how many words i can write on this subject
        
           | nosioptar wrote:
           | I swore off all television news except PBS Newshour. It's way
           | less stressful than having cable/local news on in the
           | background all the time.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | > Actually read the articles, don't just learn about the world
         | from hot takes.
         | 
         | Or, even more difficult: Actually read the science paper, or
         | the court ruling, or the executive order, or the proposed
         | legislation, rather than the journalist's hot take. A lot of
         | these journalists takes boil down to "tweets with more words."
        
           | nosioptar wrote:
           | Another bonus is that you get accurate into that way. I've
           | lost count of how many times the tweet/article gets it
           | completely wrong.
        
         | the_snooze wrote:
         | >Avoid following the news constantly. Check in every once in a
         | while--a couple times a week at most. Get your news from long
         | articles, not tweets. Actually read the articles, don't just
         | learn about the world from hot takes.
         | 
         | This 100%. If a piece of news is truly important, then it'll be
         | important tomorrow or even a week from now. You'll even get
         | clarifications and corrections along the way.
         | 
         | I like to use Pocket to build a list of long-form articles I
         | want to read, then EpubPress (https://epub.press/) to compile
         | that into a weekly EPUB that I can read in-full on a
         | distraction-free e-book reader. It's a much less stressful way
         | of consuming media than the whole neverending drug-frenzied
         | quick-hits world of online news.
        
           | upcoming-sesame wrote:
           | If that could somehow be automated that would be cool
        
             | genewitch wrote:
             | you mean like Time magazine or LA Weekly?
        
               | upcoming-sesame wrote:
               | I meant a curated list of interesting articles for me
               | sent as an epub to my kindle weekly...
        
             | the_snooze wrote:
             | I looked into that recently, and Calibre with this plugin
             | is a viable option. https://github.com/mmagnus/Pocket-Plus-
             | Calibre-Plugin
             | 
             | You can schedule periodic content pulls in Calibre, and I
             | believe you can also automate sending the resulting EPUB to
             | an email address (like the Kindle's send-to-email feature).
             | I would use this, but I prefer EpubPress's formatting and
             | I'm too lazy to tweak Calibre's.
        
         | dschuessler wrote:
         | I've implemented this into my life via the "In the news"
         | section of the Wikipedia start page. It served me well the last
         | couple of months.
        
           | icedrift wrote:
           | Am I on the wrong page or were there only 4 articles on North
           | America for all of January?
        
             | hecanjog wrote:
             | This is the one I like to use:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events
        
         | awongh wrote:
         | I think one of the fundamental problems is that "news"
         | fundamentally doesn't tell you very much about what's
         | happening.
         | 
         | A perfect example is a plane crash- you hear right away that a
         | plane has crashed. It is reported on because it is an
         | exceptional event. But, the "real" effects, the ones that
         | actually affect you personally, or the world systemically,
         | won't play out until months later. (for example the Boeing MCAS
         | 777-max thing). How much good does it really do you to know
         | about the plane crash now vs. informing yourself about the
         | context of the plane crash 3--6 months later?
        
       | yostrovs wrote:
       | What is actually outrageous is that Scientific American publishes
       | articles like this. It's an institution that, like so many, is
       | destroying itself by getting into politics, especially the
       | politics of outrage.
        
         | taylodl wrote:
         | Scientific American started "getting into politics" in the mid
         | 20th century, so your comment is about 70 years late.
        
           | yostrovs wrote:
           | Please provide some evidence. It was only in 2020 that SciAm
           | endorsed a candidate for president for the first time in its
           | 170+ year history.
        
           | munchler wrote:
           | I grew up reading SciAm in the 70's and 80's, and I don't
           | remember a single article about politics.
        
       | _fat_santa wrote:
       | I've been an avid news consumer since ~2016 and early on I
       | remember getting very outraged at articles, tweets and other
       | pieces of news I read. Over time I realized that these articles
       | want you to be outraged, and that the outrage is a form of
       | control.
       | 
       | Over time though I picked up on these "outrage triggers" and
       | that's helped me be much more objective about news I'm reading.
       | I'll be reading an article and I can usually pick up the "tricks"
       | writers use to generate outrage. I often find myself reading an
       | article and go "oh look you want me to feel outraged right now".
       | 
       | Nowdays when I try to be informed about a story I will read an
       | NYT report, a CNN report, a Fox News or other right leaning
       | report, and then maybe one from DailyWire of Bannon's War Room.
       | Skimming every article I often see spots where the outlet is
       | trying to outrage their readers. NYT will report something that
       | will outrage the left and as you "go right" on the reports you
       | will start to see outrage directed to the right.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Twenty+ years ago an aunt of mine regularly called our local
         | news on channel four the Channel Fear news.
        
         | jquery wrote:
         | I've generally found that overtly biased outlets on the right
         | aren't a huge source of outrage for me because their spin is so
         | blatant--once I notice the propaganda, it's easy to tune out.
         | The bigger frustration is knowing how many people take that
         | coverage at face value. It's not quite the same "outrage" the
         | article describes, though.
         | 
         | By contrast, the NYT often feels more subtle and therefore more
         | effective at stoking that sense of constant agitation. They're
         | meticulously fact-based, but their editorial choices--what they
         | highlight, the framing they use--can seem designed to provoke a
         | reaction rather than just inform. It's not only about the
         | content of the stories; sometimes it's also about how they
         | present or prioritize them. If you haven't encountered this
         | firsthand, checking out "NYTimes pitch bot" on Bluesky can
         | illustrate how their style can veer into outrage territory.
         | It's a satirical account, but it often points out the patterns
         | in the Times' headlines and story angles that might otherwise
         | go unnoticed.
        
           | seneca wrote:
           | You're absolutely correct, but you're missing an important
           | detail.
           | 
           | I'm assuming you're more aligned politically with the left.
           | If you're not, I apologize for the assumption. To someone who
           | is more right-wing, the bias of e.g. NYT is just as blatant
           | as Fox News is to you, and Fox may come off as "fair". This
           | is because the propaganda is specifically intended to land
           | with their own audience. It's tuned to your sensibilities.
           | 
           | It's very much a "fish in water" scenario. Trying to read
           | articles from multiple sources can help, and questioning why
           | you agree with one take over another. In the end, these are
           | pretty sophisticated operations, and they know how to prey on
           | their targets.
        
             | psunavy03 wrote:
             | Subreddits are a great place to see the result of this . .
             | . it's incredible how much utter shite and misinformation
             | is just taken for granted as "the way things are" and how
             | much the details of said misinformation depend on your
             | political leanings.
             | 
             | And of course everyone is convinced that they have the
             | rational truth and it's the other guy who's the "low-
             | information voter" being taken by the propaganda.
        
             | CamperBob2 wrote:
             | _To someone who is more right-wing, the bias of e.g. NYT is
             | just as blatant as Fox News is to you, and Fox may come off
             | as "fair". This is because the propaganda is specifically
             | intended to land with their own audience. It's tuned to
             | your sensibilities._
             | 
             | This isn't really a matter of subjective opinion, though.
             | Objective surveys have consistently shown that Fox News
             | viewers are worse-informed than people who don't pay
             | attention to _any_ conventional news sources. NYT readers
             | are a long way up from there.
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | That's not really comparing apples-to-apples though: a
               | cable TV network aimed at the undereducated masses versus
               | a prestigious broadsheet newspaper pitched at the
               | educated classes
               | 
               | There's plenty of right-of-centre magazines and websites
               | aimed at educated right-wingers: e.g. First Things,
               | Commentary, The American Conservative, the Spectator
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Fair point, but it was the OP who first mentioned Fox
               | News and the NYT in the same sentence.
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | Right, but I think their point was that they are both
               | biased just in opposite directions, and bringing the
               | orthogonal difference in target audience education level
               | into it is arguably confusing things
               | 
               | Maybe a better demonstration of their point might be
               | comparing NYT/WaPo to the WSJ
        
               | lazyeye wrote:
               | I read a book on the history of the NYT. They would
               | market themselves to advertisers with "our readers have
               | the highest disposable income of aby news source in
               | America". It's an interesting reflection on the modern
               | Democrat party and politics in general, that the NYT now
               | leans left.
        
               | torstenvl wrote:
               | "Objective surveys" by whom?
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | By the way, I read Fox News as a comparison for NYT.
               | Reading the comments on Fox News articles is a very weird
               | experience. You'll get this mixture of comments from "I
               | support Trump but this particular idea is terrible" to
               | "We must do everything Trump says to bring about the next
               | revolution" to what appears to be blatant
               | propaganda/manipulation from foreign agents and literal
               | outright racism and sexism. What you don't see is nuanced
               | communication, while in the NY Times, comments are often
               | from knowledgeable people who have experience
               | communicating online, can make good arguments, and back
               | up their ideas with facts.
               | 
               | If the fox news comments in any way represent true
               | opinions of trump supporters, then our country is truly
               | screwed.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | Honestly, I think most Trump supporters are never heard
               | from online. They're just people who go about their daily
               | lives without putting a lot of thought into politics.
               | They checked the box on their ballot corresponding to a
               | name they'd heard a lot lately.
               | 
               | I suspect they will have good reasons to pay more
               | attention next time, if there is a next time.
        
               | macrocosmos wrote:
               | Objective surveys.
        
             | hansonkd wrote:
             | > NYT is just as blatant as Fox News is to you
             | 
             | After this past election cycle I don't see how people can
             | make that comment with a straight face.
             | 
             | Media in general is very right leaning. Some like CNN and
             | NYT are maybe slightly more left than far right fox news,
             | but there aren't many "left leaning" mass market news
             | sources that are essentially felating one party for
             | millions of people.
             | 
             | NYT and CNN, etc are all very critical of democrats when
             | there is a controversy. This is stark contrast to fox news
             | which essentially is willful ignorance of anything bad
             | republicans / trump has done.
             | 
             | The "normalization" of Trump's corruption by media in
             | general should be enough to see which way they lean.
             | 
             | Its just that if anybody is slightly less than full blown
             | fox news conservative they get labeled as left leaning by
             | everyone in the media so there is some idea of "balance"
             | but conservative media (fox news, conservative podcasts,
             | etc) are overwhelmingly mass market and the majority.
        
               | sandspar wrote:
               | Interesting to be around for the birth of a false fact
               | like "the media is right leaning". Overnight you see
               | people start parroting something that's clearly untrue.
        
               | hansonkd wrote:
               | > clearly untrue
               | 
               | Maybe you haven't been paying attention the past 5 years,
               | but there has been a dramatic shift to the right in
               | media. Companies change ownership and the new owners take
               | advantage of the historical left leaning nature of the
               | media.
               | 
               | The magic trick fox news and conservatives has pulled is
               | by being so far right that center/slightly right parties
               | look far left. The normalization of the MAGA movement is
               | evidence of this right leaning media machine.
               | 
               | Look at who owns the "left leaning" media companies. CNN
               | is owned by conservatives.
               | 
               | Joe Rogan, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson audience dwarf
               | most other channels these days. fox news has almost 3-4
               | times the viewership of CNN which is the preferred
               | example of a "left leaning" network to balance them.
               | 
               | The rights constant raging against mainstream media is an
               | attempt to distract from the fact that mainstream media
               | is in fact conservative.
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | In the last week what headline and story do you think was
           | overblown by the NYT?
        
           | trimethylpurine wrote:
           | > _meticulously fact-based_
           | 
           | Interesting...
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_New_York_Times_con.
           | ..
           | 
           | I'm not picking on them specifically. If you'd said this
           | about any news outlet, I wouldn't believe you.
        
         | dimal wrote:
         | I had to give up news altogether before I could notice this,
         | but yeah, news exists for the sole purpose of creating outrage
         | in order to generate ad impressions. When you get outraged by
         | one story, you're more likely to click on the next related
         | headline. We're destroying our society so we can make less than
         | a penny per page.
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | If you truly need to know breaking news, one of the following is
       | probably true:
       | 
       | - you have a team that will brief you on it
       | 
       | - you will get the news that apply to you from the source
       | 
       | You won't get either of these from a news website.
       | 
       | As a civilian, you can stay completely up to date with a quick
       | weekly / monthly headline scan.
        
       | joshdavham wrote:
       | One thing to consider for those of us who are more sensitive to
       | online outrage is to just quit social media all together. I'm
       | technically gen z and I've been off of social media (aside from
       | HN, WhatsApp and discord) for years and you wouldn't believe how
       | great it's been for my overall state of mind.
       | 
       | Reddit, instagram, X, Facebook, TikTok, LinkedIn, Threads, etc
       | are all the equivalent of digital junk food and I'd argue that
       | we're all a lot more negatively affected by it than we think.
       | There's a reason 'brain rot' was word of the year.
        
         | dr_dshiv wrote:
         | I find LinkedIn a healthy collection of professional
         | accomplishments with minimal news. It's also not very
         | addictive.
         | 
         | However, shitty newsfeeds like Google news are my bane. I can't
         | stop.
        
           | gbin wrote:
           | I have seen an increasing amount of Trump non sense popping
           | up more and more from the VC community the past 6 months on
           | LI
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | I find LinkedIn to be the worse of the social media sites. My
           | feed is full of wannabe "thought leaders", people posting
           | about a meaningless vendor certificate they got, recruiters
           | giving advice, people who can't get a job or were recently
           | laid off, etc.
           | 
           | But now, politics is getting involved because people are
           | having government job offers rescinded and the entire federal
           | government is in a free fall like a 3rd world banana
           | republic.
        
             | JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote:
             | > My feed is full of wannabe "thought leaders"
             | 
             | Block them, it's easy. I have only close friends and
             | coworkers that I don't hate on that site.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | In principal it's a great method to get back to normal, however
         | there are key areas (subreddits, local groups, etc.) that
         | really do provide information, expertise, and news content that
         | isn't available anywhere else online. It's a double edged
         | sword. The best way I've found is to be in there with a read-
         | only mindset or perhaps only participating inside those key
         | areas where political discussions are strictly prohibited.
        
           | codinhood wrote:
           | This has been my exact issue with giving up reddit. It's
           | really hard to replace very niche topics without it, since
           | many online forums are dead. I also append so many searches
           | on google with "reddit" because the top results are generally
           | SEO spam.
           | 
           | Reading "You should quit reddit" helped a little. The author
           | tries to reframe your hidden beliefs about reddit like
           | "finding useful information" or "it's filled with experts."
           | Helped me to realize I was spending more time reading about
           | my hobbies than actually doing them. Though I understand it's
           | not that simple, doing requires more energy, etc.
        
             | gipp wrote:
             | My approach, finally mostly successful after over a decade,
             | is just "no main feed or subreddit pages." Reading a thread
             | off a Google search or whatever because it has information
             | I want is fine.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | I have found this to be completely untrue. Yes, maybe not at
           | the same scale that Reddit is, but if you dig, there's a
           | community for everything. You can find what you're looking
           | for.
           | 
           | That said, I recognize that I am speaking completely for
           | myself in regards to my own interests. YMMV.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | This is the way. I was a director of the community team at
         | deviantart when it got going and I remember so many times
         | thinking "if we get one of these apps for everything people are
         | going to drown themselves in the internet" - because I used to
         | have to actively check in on community members who we deemed
         | addicted. Sure enough, here we are, except it seems nobody is
         | looking out for the best interests of their communities
         | anymore. Thank god for dang.
        
           | bartekpacia wrote:
           | > I was a director of the community team at deviantart (...)
           | I used to have to actively check in on community members who
           | we deemed addicted
           | 
           | This sounds so interesting to me - was it your
           | responsibility? How did you detect if someone was addicted?
           | And most importantly, how did you scale it?
        
             | neom wrote:
             | Well early deviantart was pretty small, and I don't think
             | anyone building it was over 25y/o at the time, so we all
             | had lots of free time to work on it. Deviantart was
             | arranged in a way we all had communities we were
             | responsible for, it changed a lot after it reached million+
             | users scale, but in the beginning at 100k or so users it
             | was very manageable. Your responsibility per Scott Jarkoff
             | who lead that team was "to love, nurture, protect and grow
             | your community" - and then there were things we were taught
             | to watch out for or check in on. Backend you could see
             | pretty much everything about the user, plus you just got
             | used to the users in your communities, so "additive like
             | behavior" was not difficult to detect, literally I would
             | just see some users online ALL THE TIME, so we would always
             | check in to make sure everything is ok, and tell them
             | they're probably spending too much time on the site (it was
             | a bit harder for me because I was one of the people
             | responsible for communities generally.) I don't know how
             | actively other GDs did this, but it was a widly discussed
             | topic in our staff only irc channel very frequently. This
             | all came from the teams want to be mindful to avoid hurting
             | other people using the internet, most of us building it
             | genuinely gave 2 shits and genuinely cared about our users.
             | This was the same playbook I then used to build devrel at
             | DigitalOcean in the beginning, I had devrel structured per
             | community with the same instruction Scott gave me back in
             | the day. (I think it's part of why y'all originally picked
             | us! so thanks!)
        
               | lemonberry wrote:
               | This is amazing! I needed to read it today. Thank you.
        
               | fifilura wrote:
               | Interesting. Would this be implementable today but on a
               | larger scale?
               | 
               | "Someone who cares about you on the internet"
               | 
               | instead of
               | 
               | "Something that prevents you from posting hate/snuff/nude
               | on the internet"
               | 
               | Obviously lots of problems, tons of them, and 1984 vibes,
               | but still, the basic idea. A bit more like humans were
               | meant to interact?
        
               | neom wrote:
               | I think sadly the scale becomes less about the size per
               | say and more about the unpredictability. The "vibes" on
               | the internet late 90s early 2000s where very... on point,
               | so it didn't feel like emotional labour. I can imagine
               | being someone who cares about someone on the internet in
               | 2025 would be, frankly, exhausting, in 2002 it was just
               | fun.
        
               | the_pwner224 wrote:
               | Yes: "Better Living Through Algorithms" -
               | https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/kritzer_05_23/
               | 
               | It's an interesting relevant short story. Won the 2024
               | Hugo Award. It was posted a few months ago:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41263876
        
               | archagon wrote:
               | Corporate social media does not care about its users.
               | They are just biomass to fuel various goals: ad revenue,
               | political influence, etc. In fact, the more addicted you
               | are, the better.
        
               | et-al wrote:
               | Wow, thanks for the sharing this lovely tidbit!
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | I agree. My Reddit outrage addiction flares up every now and
         | then and it makes my mental health objectively shitty. Doesn't
         | matter if there's some good content and connection on there,
         | it's just not worth the (mental) cost.
        
           | 93po wrote:
           | Reddit is overwhelmingly fake information and covert ads.
           | Investigate any random post on the front page of /r/all, even
           | if it's just like a cute gif of an old person, then go to the
           | comments. Like 75% chance there is something fake or made up
           | about the title or context. It's such a mind pollutant, I
           | can't stand it.
        
             | mavamaarten wrote:
             | In my opinion reddit is still such a great community if you
             | subscribe to topics that interest you and leave the default
             | subreddits. There's plenty of subreddits that I would not
             | be able to find a good alternative forum for, maybe a
             | Facebook group exists here and there but is that really
             | better?
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | Good for you for being able to ignore /r/all, /r/popular,
               | etc. I just can't, I always end up relapsing.
        
             | andelink wrote:
             | This is to be expected for /r/all. But who cares because
             | why would anyone want to go there in the first place? In
             | general once something becomes a certain size wrt users,
             | its value to those users plummets. The only thing to do is
             | leave.
        
         | Damogran6 wrote:
         | The services go through phases (I suspect depending on botnet
         | activity)...Middle of the day, Threads is a fun place to hang,
         | 9pm? It's a wall of anxiety producing ragebait, 2am? It's even
         | worse.
         | 
         | Looking at it on my phone, if I can see three entries and 2 are
         | anxiety inducing, I close the app. (I'm 99% certain they get
         | that telemetry too)
         | 
         | That said, I also had days where I doomscrolled instagram and
         | thought 'it's been 20 minutes and I haven't seen anything
         | entertaining yet.' And that's when I decided to drop it. (It
         | was the only app I could chat with my kids with...we've since
         | moved to other methods)
         | 
         | I haven't cut it out completely, but I'm not hyper aware of how
         | I'm consuming it.
        
         | nineplay wrote:
         | Alternatively carefully curate your social media accounts. My
         | reddit home page is all books and formula 1. I'm quick to hit
         | 'show me less like this' when anything drifts in from the front
         | page.
         | 
         | My Facebook feed is all friends and family who don't discuss
         | politics and ads for nerd shirts. I've purchased a few. It is
         | also easy and effective to hit show me less of this.
         | 
         | I agree about LinkedIn and don't go there unless I'm actively
         | job hunting, something I hope never to do again. I don't feel
         | any bitterness when I see friends and family on FB go on
         | expensive vacations, but I do feel an unhealthy and
         | indefensible jealousy sometimes when I see former coworkers
         | getting new jobs or promotions.
        
           | gleenn wrote:
           | I totally understand the desire to avoid politics on all
           | these platforms but in some way I always expect the greater
           | powers want to destroy these platforms and make us even more
           | hopeless.
        
             | nineplay wrote:
             | The greater powers control these platforms and want to keep
             | us engaged so we believe what they want us to believe.
        
           | teuobk wrote:
           | Indeed. I've unsubscribed from all subreddits that have
           | become infested with political content, and I've "unfollowed"
           | all of my acquaintances on Facebook and LinkedIn who post
           | anything political. So much more enjoyable.
        
           | lbarron6868 wrote:
           | This is how I've dealt with Instagram. My IG account is
           | literally nothing but cats. it's actually very refreshing to
           | look at for five or ten minutes. But it takes work. IG wants
           | to keep feeding me their BS reels. Sometimes I don't think
           | it's worth it, they really make you put up a fight.
        
         | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
         | I reduced my news intake to a daily email from reuters + HN.
         | Special thanks go to AI, as reddit and others no longer allow
         | reading content without login.
        
           | upcoming-sesame wrote:
           | Interesting. What's your setup ?
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | I quit reddit too recently, I still look at it for info but I'm
         | not logged in/scrolling through it
         | 
         | I find myself reaching for something when I have
         | YouTube/chilling at my desk at the end of the day, can't code
         | anymore/make something just on till I sleep. Sometimes have the
         | desire to play a video game (I have a gaming rig too funny how
         | that works)
         | 
         | I've been trying to read HN or IEEE, TechCrunch stuff like that
         | as my "lazy fun"
         | 
         | I will miss posting stuff like "what is this car" or being part
         | of the car talk for a sporty car I drive but idk kind of want
         | to just live too
         | 
         | It's unfortunate people expect you to have social media like a
         | girl asks me if I have Instagram and I'm weird to not have one,
         | I get it they can scope you out too for safety but when I tried
         | using that stuff I felt this pressure to post about something
         | 
         | Anyway my main goal in life right now is getting out of
         | debt/staying fit and work on projects
        
           | jmyeet wrote:
           | The Instagram dating thing is because, in the heteronormative
           | sense, a guy without one odd WAY more likely to be cheating.
           | If you're in a relationship, even if you don't post, your
           | significant other will likely tag you in their posts.
           | 
           | I've never really understood doomscrolling on Twitter or
           | Reddit. The only social media I find remotely useful out
           | entertaining is actually TikTok. The comments are IME the
           | least toxic and most entertaining. And I've gone down
           | fascinating rabbit holes of things that have absolutely no
           | relevance to my life like medical residency TikTok.
        
             | ge96 wrote:
             | My reddit scrolling wasn't doom for my case. I was either
             | personal topics I liked (cars, computing, software,
             | photography, etc...) or brain rot/stupid shi that's the
             | main reason I've left because I could be more productive
             | than looking at an endless supply of that stuff
             | 
             | You can mute subreddits and not see them anymore
             | 
             | Funny you have to purge the algo on things like YouTube if
             | you click on a thubmnail with some hot chick, boom your
             | feed is nothing but click bait of hot women
        
           | jordanpg wrote:
           | One healthy way to consume Reddit that I recently learned
           | about is creating a "custom feed" (see left margin of new
           | UI).
           | 
           | You can just add subs that are of interest that lack the
           | torrent of bad news and only ever visit that custom feed. It
           | doesn't ever algorithmically add posts from subs you don't
           | manually include, as far as I've seen.
        
             | boringg wrote:
             | User groups you would be interested in get hijacked by
             | whatever the overall sentiment of Reddit is. Threads that
             | aren't political suddenly get political for no reason. It's
             | completely dead in there - content quality is brutally low.
        
               | awfulneutral wrote:
               | I just bookmark subreddits for things I'm interested in,
               | and visit them individually. I hardly ever see any
               | political content doing that.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | The key is to stay in smaller, dedicated subreddits and
               | avoid _anything_ remotely popular or generic.
        
             | matwood wrote:
             | > You can just add subs that are of interest that lack the
             | torrent of bad news and only ever visit that custom feed.
             | 
             | I still use old.reddit and this is the only way I've ever
             | used Reddit. My homepage only shows me posts from Reddits I
             | follow and nothing else. I don't see all the craziness
             | people here are talking about.
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | Yeah I just use old Reddit, which still works like that.
             | 
             | Cannot stand unsolicited content.
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | > _It 's unfortunate people expect you to have social media
           | like a girl asks me if I have Instagram and I'm weird to not
           | have one_
           | 
           | Outside of reddit/discord/hn, I haven't had any social media
           | since roughly 2010, and I don't use reddit or discord for
           | anything remotely "social media"-ish.
           | 
           | While I still get the occasional look as if I'm wearing a
           | tinfoil hat when I say _" I don't have FB. No, no insta
           | either. No... not snapchat either"_, I find it's a lot less
           | common now, thankfully. When I first left social media in
           | ~2010, it was rough. Not only dating scene wise, but I lost
           | out on a few job opportunities (at _least_ a few, probably
           | more than I know) as well.
           | 
           | Now you're just considered kind of weird/fringe, instead of
           | being borderline insane. Moving (slowly) in the right
           | direction, I think.
        
             | HPsquared wrote:
             | Maybe you're just iteratively refining your friend group.
        
             | throwaway4220 wrote:
             | I agree. In my 40s and at work most people my age do have
             | fb instagram and TikTok but everyone's super understanding
             | when I say I like my privacy
        
             | AznHisoka wrote:
             | I wouldn't care a whole lot if someone told me they weren't
             | in IG, FB, Snap, Twitter, etc. However, if someone told me
             | they never bothered with Linkedin, it would be hard for me
             | to resist bowing at their feet.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Out of all the social media I don't have, that's the one
               | that has lost me the most job opportunities for sure. I
               | probably would have caved and signed up if I didn't end
               | up getting a job through some old-fashioned (face-to-
               | face) networking.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | We were required to make linkedin profiles as part of the
               | computer science career preparedness class. I got an
               | internship out of that career day though so it was a win
               | for me
        
               | stevage wrote:
               | Wait, really? I must be old. I technically have a
               | LinkedIn but haven't really been on the site since the
               | last time I was in the job market 8 yeras ago.
               | 
               | Very occasionally a potential client messages me through
               | it but they are almost very low quality contacts.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | I mean that's the correct way to use LinkedIn: it's a job
               | board.
        
               | svnt wrote:
               | I deleted my LinkedIn several years ago.
               | 
               | I can only recommend it if you are independently wealthy,
               | want to become an ascetic, or more broadly, your goal is
               | to never be hired or really even evaluated for much in
               | the business world again.
               | 
               | None of the rest of the social networks serve as a sanity
               | check on your resume/application/meeting.
        
             | switchbak wrote:
             | How did you miss out on job opportunities by not being on
             | social media?
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | The first step in the resume vetting process was looking
               | the applicant up on LinkedIn. If they didn't exist, the
               | resume goes in the bin. I doubt it's that severe still as
               | more and more people move away from having social media
               | (it's been awhile since I've been on either side of job
               | hunt/hiring).
               | 
               | On more than one occasion the direct feedback of why I
               | didn't move further in the hiring process was a lack of
               | internet presence.
               | 
               | But, again, keep in mind this was early 2010s. Social
               | media hadn't had as much time to show the world how
               | poisonous it is.
        
               | switchbak wrote:
               | Oh I see. I've never found LinkedIn useful, but I still
               | have a profile for some reason. I suppose I've never
               | fallen into that particular trap.
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | > I will miss posting stuff like "what is this car" or being
           | part of the car talk for a sporty car I drive but idk kind of
           | want to just live too
           | 
           | I used to waste so much time posting about cars on Reddit.
           | I'd open my computer at 11pm, reply a few times to a single
           | post on Reddit, and before long, I'd see 1:45am on the clock.
           | 
           | Not posting anything has been a massive time saver.
        
             | wholinator2 wrote:
             | Same, except i reply on the drugs and harm reduction
             | subreddit trying to help kids make decisions that dont
             | destroy their lives. It's really difficult to leave because
             | i remember when i needed those people and sometimes it
             | feels like all the adults left the room and I'm the only
             | one left. Who's gonna help these kids? Seems futile to
             | attempt to stem the tide of gen alpha tiktok brainrot
             | idiocy but sometimes people actually listen to me and their
             | life improves. I've given myself a time that I'll work down
             | to 15 minutes a day to try to consolidate that extra time.
             | Recently I've been using some of my addiction advice on
             | myself to quit reddit
        
           | niceice wrote:
           | I checked reddit recently for the first time in a while, and
           | I was shocked by how radicalized its become. An echo chamber
           | of hateful people and perhaps GPTs that are agitating the big
           | subreddits. The contrast is stark with all the "no place for
           | hate" in the rules and endless banning of microaggressions.
           | 
           | I saw dozens of death threats. Even an explicit death threat
           | thread with over 40,000 upvotes before reddit stepped in and
           | shut the whole subreddit down.
           | 
           | It reminded me of Ghostbusters 2 with all the aggressively
           | angry people and the ooze pouring out of the sewers, all
           | building upon itself.
        
             | gosub100 wrote:
             | Agreed. There is exactly one way to think and believe on
             | Reddit. The "outrage" might be tolerable or even
             | informative in some cases if it was equally distributed.
             | 
             | It's disheartening when the one-track politics infects
             | every square inch. It's a good point about bots because 1)
             | they can be sold or rented to advertisers, 2) they are more
             | valuable with higher karma, and 3) the easiest way to get a
             | bot to harvest karma is by agreeing with the hive. So
             | they're amplifying "the message" without even intending to.
        
             | input_sh wrote:
             | That particular subreddit isn't shut down, it was
             | temporarily suspended as the moderators simply got
             | overwhelmed. There's no indication of bad faith from either
             | the mod team nor the reddit admins, the floodgate was just
             | too much for them to handle. It pretty much says so in the
             | ban message, admins are gonna help them take back control
             | and it will be up within a couple of days.
        
             | nonchalantsui wrote:
             | This is just the consequence of the API protests. Despite
             | people claiming it had no lasting impact, admins coming in
             | and making sweeping changes to mod teams replacing them
             | with loyalists, alongside ramping up centralized feeds to
             | serve more ads onto meant content quality took a nosedive.
             | This is obvious in most subs if you actually look at who is
             | submitting the threads (something the app and All/Popular
             | pages hides in several views), most of these subs are
             | dominated by a handful of accounts. It's a cycle too,
             | because often they'll continue spamming subs in order to
             | get on All/Popular, or make up weird stories to do so,
             | effectively karma farming taken very seriously, with mods
             | encouraging it because of the aforementioned loyalists.
             | 
             | It's all just driveby anger and reposts. Maybe some smaller
             | subs with good communities here and there, but that often
             | requires a mod team putting in substantial hours and
             | remaining under the radar from All/Popular in any shape.
             | 
             | Forgot to mention, Reddit also started paying these
             | accounts for posting. So a literal financial incentive to
             | ragebait. It' called the "Contributor Program".
        
             | godshatter wrote:
             | I just stick to the niche subreddits (games, interests,
             | whatever). The main subreddits have been especially
             | aggressive echo chambers for a long time now.
        
             | taurknaut wrote:
             | /r/worldnews is one of the most astroturfed places on the
             | internet. Some of those commenters are so nationalist and
             | bloodthirsty they unnerve me. The ban hammer is extremely
             | active on this sub, and for saying completely innocuous
             | political statements about personal preference. I'm
             | absolutely sure this is broader than just that sub but I've
             | probably heard this specific complaint from probably a
             | dozen other people too.
             | 
             | I will say, the subreddit system does a decent job of
             | quarantining the dysfunction to that sub. The mod quality
             | is everything and the mod drama is an absolute dumpster
             | fire. (Extremely curiously, Ghislaine Maxwell seems to have
             | been one of the most prolific of the mods, and one of her
             | suspected accounts may be one of the most successful
             | (karma-wise) posters of all reddit.) But on the flipside,
             | /r/askhistorians is still one of the best resources on the
             | internet. Many of the specialty subreddits I frequent
             | (Aviation, UkraineRussiaReport, video game subs, several
             | miscellaneous african subs) are still functioning fine.
        
             | urda wrote:
             | Reddit, by far, is one of the worst echo chambers on the
             | internet. I've seen hundreds of death threats at one
             | political group on there, but if any veiled threat is made
             | against the "reddit approved party" it is instantly removed
             | or accounts suspended. This really peaked during 2020, when
             | open calls for violence stayed up, some with reddit admin
             | approvals.
             | 
             | It used to be a good site, but that was many years ago.
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | > I checked reddit recently for the first time in a while,
             | and I was shocked by how radicalized its become.
             | 
             | Reddit has always had these elements, but they were
             | previously isolated to certain subreddits.
             | 
             | I noticed the biggest change when the app and website
             | became aggressive about getting people to join other
             | subreddits and inserting posts from other subreddits into
             | people's feeds. Suddenly the isolated subreddits I followed
             | were full of low effort content and angry comments.
             | 
             | Reddit's front page is shockingly bad. The amount of
             | misinformation and ragebait that gets upvoted to the front
             | page is almost hard to believe.
             | 
             | It's also interesting that many subreddits have embraced
             | the ragebait. Subreddits like /r/AITA have been clear about
             | how they don't care if stories are real or not, but legions
             | of Redditors engage with obvious ChatGPT spam as if it was
             | a real situation they need to weigh in on.
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | Reddit is the worst. It has devolved into a massive echo
           | chamber that only welcomes one side of politics. The
           | aggression of mods and how they run their fiefdoms is a turn
           | off even for those who share in those politics.
        
             | tejohnso wrote:
             | I discovered the same recently and have abandoned it. It's
             | unfortunate because the potential is there for a real city
             | wide or nation wide group discussion platform. But who
             | moderates the moderators?
        
               | Klonoar wrote:
               | I don't have too much issue with Reddits politics at the
               | moment, but I do think it's odd that such a powerful
               | platform in society is managed by volunteer (mostly)
               | anonymous moderators.
               | 
               | I will be explicit in that I am not condoning doxxing
               | Reddit mods. I just don't think we'd be fine with this in
               | normal day to day life.
        
               | warkdarrior wrote:
               | Do you know the editors at your local TV stations? The
               | local radio stations? The people who curate the datasets
               | that train the YouTube recommendation model?
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | > who moderates the moderators?
               | 
               | Advertisers currently
        
               | tapoxi wrote:
               | Users moderate the moderators, if they don't like the
               | tone of a subreddit they split off into another
               | subreddit.
        
           | dbtc wrote:
           | My suggestion: music! Give the eyes a break.
        
             | ge96 wrote:
             | I have music/noise on all the time, rarely in silence. I
             | play the same playlist/song over and over when focusing.
             | Unfortunately working in an open office it sucks people
             | having conversions (to each other or to computer)
        
           | concordDance wrote:
           | One unfortunate aspect of this phenomena is that as reddit
           | "evaporatively cools" (ala https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZQ
           | G9cwKbct2LtmL3p/evaporativ... ) as the more level headed
           | people leave reddit gets even more radical.
           | 
           | It's even possible the places that people then move to (such
           | as HN) also get more radical if the leavers have higher
           | levels of radicalism than the place they join.
        
           | natnat wrote:
           | > It's unfortunate people expect you to have social media
           | like a girl asks me if I have Instagram and I'm weird to not
           | have one, I get it they can scope you out too for safety but
           | when I tried using that stuff I felt this pressure to post
           | about something
           | 
           | Probably worth Googling something like [men who don't have
           | social media] to think what women think about this, it's more
           | positive than you might think :)
        
         | su8898 wrote:
         | Not sure if you've intentionally omitted it but I would also
         | include YouTube in this list. YouTube can be very addictive
         | with all the clickbait thumbnails etc.
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | haha yeah that's where you inject custom CSS on the page to
           | hide thumbnails, come to YouTube to see something? no
           | thumbnails to distract your original intent
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | I thank myself for having avoided social media so far. I've
         | also developed a keen eye for headlines that lead to "outrage
         | articles" which I avoid.
        
           | ysavir wrote:
           | > I've also developed a keen eye for headlines that lead to
           | "outrage articles" which I avoid.
           | 
           | That's critical. My YouTube rule these days is to block any
           | channel with a video name or thumbnail that says something
           | like "This is why you fail at XYZ" or other statements
           | designed to evoke an emotional response from me. And on top
           | of that, I try to only click on videos where the
           | title/thumbnail is properly informative, exposing the content
           | rather than trying to hide it behind a vague hook. Hooks like
           | "You won't believe this one trick!" and fluff like that,
           | titles/thumbnails that should introduce the trick, not just
           | allude to it.
        
             | analog31 wrote:
             | Another dead giveaway is "X is outraged by Y."
        
         | iugtmkbdfil834 wrote:
         | << One thing to consider for those of us who are more sensitive
         | to online outrage is to just quit social media all together.
         | 
         | Yes. I still have to be at least aware of what is happening for
         | work reasons, but removing social media was one of the better
         | decisions for my sanity ( I stil comment on HN, but the quality
         | of conversations was degrading as well, which in itself is a
         | concern suggesting further digital landscape deterioration ).
         | 
         | I considered some more obvious solutions ( from buying
         | subscription to WSJ/FT to personal news aggregator -- and
         | objective/neutral observer rewrite using LLM and they all are
         | not exactly ideal ).
         | 
         | Here is the good news. All this chaos is an opportunity to
         | stand something useful up. And I mean something useful that
         | cannot be so easily dismantled by powers that be ( and there
         | are already heavy indications they are aware people may try
         | going outside the defined paths ).
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | Same, I participate is very curated, self-selected communities
         | online and that's it. I don't know how others who don't can do
         | it.
         | 
         | Good luck out there.
        
         | sporkydistance wrote:
         | Why do you exclude HN from your list? It is literally social
         | media, but with the dial turned down a little. Yet, you don't
         | have to dig to deeply to see flamewars, outrage, and trolling.
         | I mean, look at many of the garbage comments in this very
         | thread that are on par with /.,xchan.
        
           | xorvoid wrote:
           | Yes, but it's the old skool version of social media and the
           | conversations here are generally higher quality and more
           | genuine. I strongly disagree that it's "on par with /.,xchan"
           | 
           | HN also doesn't seem to be as susceptible to rage-baiting /
           | outrage-attention-seeking behavior. Not sure exactly what by
           | this is the case but I'd venture a guess it has a lot to do
           | with (1) "dang"s moderation, and (2) not having a
           | personalized algorithm feed.
           | 
           | I'm increasingly of the view that personalized algorithm
           | feeds generated to select the maximum attention grabbing
           | content for each person is a truly dangerous idea.
           | 
           | Frankly, HN is not that engaging (by modern standards). In
           | fact, probably 60-70% of the articles on the front page are
           | boring to me on any given day. I view this as a feature and
           | not a bug. Why should I expect that everything I look at must
           | be maximally engaging?
           | 
           | I wish more sites were old skool like HN.
        
           | jbombadil wrote:
           | Not GP, but feel similarly. I'll offer my 2 cents:
           | 
           | > but with the dial turned down a little.
           | 
           | Exactly for this reason. Yes, HN is a social network. And if
           | it follows the same enshittification path as the others, I
           | will be gone from here too. But until then, to me (YMMV) it
           | still provides a bit of entertainment and news without
           | rotting my brain.
           | 
           | Even the analogy works. Fast food is not that bad... in
           | moderate quantities (/"with the dial turned down a little")
        
             | seattle_spring wrote:
             | HN remains distinct from Reddit almost entirely due to
             | dang's hard work moderating the site. Spend a few minutes
             | with showdead turned on and you'll see real quick what that
             | site might turn into without effective moderation. The site
             | would be _full_ of politics and flamewars.
             | 
             | I believe a good portion of Reddit could have had been the
             | same. However, the way moderators are chosen-- in other
             | words, whoever creates the sub first gets to rule the
             | roost-- has left that site with almost universally
             | unqualified moderation.
        
           | vaylian wrote:
           | If HN is social media, then old online forums from the time
           | before "social media" are also social media.
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | Well, yes.
             | 
             | That's not really a gotcha statement.
        
               | vaylian wrote:
               | But that makes the term "social media" a very broad
               | category that doesn't tell you much.
        
               | switchbak wrote:
               | Sure, but it's also not a useful distinction.
               | 
               | There's a clear difference of kind between modern social
               | media and the forums/usenet of old.
        
               | sporkydistance wrote:
               | I really would like to know what exactly you consider a
               | "clear difference" between how Usenet and differ
               | conceptually (e.g., ignoring the GUI, the # of users, and
               | mechanics, [e.g., usenet updates diffused around the
               | globe because we didn't have cloud servers]).
               | 
               | Please back that statement up with some facts.
        
           | JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote:
           | I'm here to talk about technology and it's usage. I'm not
           | here to socialize, I don't know your name, don't care, and
           | haven't even looked at your username. You're just a sentence
           | to me. It's more impersonal than the old newsgroups. How is
           | it social?
        
             | sporkydistance wrote:
             | We're literally socializing right now. We're a special
             | interest group meeting to communicate about special
             | interests. The opposite of socialization is isolation. If
             | you hadn't posted, you wouldn't be socializing, but here we
             | are, socializing.
        
         | dudu24 wrote:
         | For better or worse, news flows through social media, so this
         | approach basically amounts to ignoring all the bad stuff going
         | on. If you read HN, chances are you can probably safely get
         | through the next four years doing this. But as the saying goes,
         | "first they came for the communists..."
        
         | daft_pink wrote:
         | I find that just muting anyone who has anything to do with
         | politics on facebook works well for me. I go on facebook to see
         | your cutesy images and how your life is going not for long
         | political diatribes.
        
           | myth2018 wrote:
           | For some short time, that worked for me, until facebook
           | noticed that I was spending less time on it. Then, they
           | started to push posts from other politics-related accounts
           | (especially from ones at the side of the spectrum I used to
           | antagonize most with). That was 4 years ago. I left that crap
           | and didn't look back.
        
         | samspot wrote:
         | If you decide not to totally quit a network, do what I do:
         | 
         | 1. Turn off all notifications, especially for replies, likes,
         | and content suggestions.
         | 
         | 2. Train yourself not to look for feedback on the things you do
         | post as a matter of habit. Intentionally check on the important
         | discussions IFF you _remember_ to do so.
         | 
         | 3. If possible, hide or remove any karma-like indications. Your
         | life is better if the internet points aren't visible.
        
           | prpl wrote:
           | Just use the webapp too, when possible. Remove all native
           | apps on your phones. Don't read emails.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | 4. If you do scroll social media and you see a bad post then
           | "punish" the platform by leaving.
        
         | Helmut10001 wrote:
         | I did the same. I have some exceptions for technical topics on
         | Reddit. I also still use Facebook in a very drilled down state
         | (looking into it every 3-5 months and checking in with some
         | remote friends). I have also set up my own Mastodon server,
         | which is fine for niche topics and I can reach out to
         | interesting people directly, where other channels fail (email).
         | I heavily rely on RSS, particularly from people that I trust or
         | who gained my trust over longer periods.
        
         | polishdude20 wrote:
         | Is WhatsApp really considered social media? I mainly use it as
         | my sms alternative.
        
           | lukan wrote:
           | Depends how you use it. Once there were groups, it became
           | quite similar - but since Telegram became so much better at
           | it and I used it for some special groups and contacts - I now
           | suddenly had lots of groups with subgroups and notifications
           | for people liking my posts or replying to it - that suddenly
           | I had social media again. What works for me is uninstalling
           | it once in a while and only come back if I feel a specific
           | need.
        
         | BrenBarn wrote:
         | I basically agree, which is why it's kind of funny to see all
         | the discussion in other threads here with people arguing about
         | why can't ban AI or how Facebook was good because it created
         | market value or whatever. Most of those platforms would be
         | better off just outright banned.
         | 
         | I do think, though, that for at least some platforms it's
         | possible to use them in a limited way where you confine
         | yourself to relatively small communities that are focused on
         | some common interest that genuinely brings together people who
         | enjoy sharing it. You mentioned Discord for instance and that's
         | one, if you can find the right servers. I think it's possible
         | to do that on Reddit too. You just have to never visit the
         | "front page" and stick only to subreddits that you actually get
         | value out of. It's harder approaching impossible with ones like
         | Facebook that are more doggedly algorithm-driven and don't put
         | moderation in the control of users in the same way.
         | 
         | Of course, the lurking issue is that putting moderation in the
         | control of users is building the platform on free labor and
         | those good subcommunities are at risk of imploding when cracks
         | emerge in the dike separating them from the wider platform
         | userbase. And that's likely to happen because even those
         | "safely usable" platforms are ultimately beholden to VC money
         | that's going to demand enshittification eventually.
         | 
         | Cohost was by far the best attempt I've seen for many years,
         | but sadly couldn't make a go of it in the toxic ecosystem we've
         | got.
        
           | ActorNightly wrote:
           | > Most of those platforms would be better off just outright
           | banned.
           | 
           | In general, the goal should be improvement of humans, not
           | avoidance of negative stimuli. Something has to exist where
           | humans are rewarded for aligning to truth and reality, rather
           | than emotion.
        
             | BrenBarn wrote:
             | > Something has to exist where humans are rewarded for
             | aligning to truth and reality, rather than emotion.
             | 
             | I more or less agree. Thus the humans who created and
             | enshittified such platforms should be correspondingly
             | punished for their disalignment to truth and reality. It's
             | not just about rewarding "consumers" of stimuli; the
             | creators and promulgators of stumili also need to be
             | incentivized (and disincentivized) in just the manner you
             | mention.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | My take is almost the opposite, that it's important to develop
         | healthy social networking insofar as there is some alternative
         | to the outrage. It takes effort though.
         | 
         | I'm going to offer my two accounts as examples
         | 
         | https://mastodon.social/@UP8
         | 
         | https://bsky.app/profile/up-8.bsky.social
         | 
         | both of these are 'cyborg' accounts in that I have my RSS
         | reader, classifier and autoposter. I am looking to build a lot
         | more automation.
         | 
         | My Mastodon feed took a large set of rules to block out #uspol
         | and certain communities of miserable people. My feed has stayed
         | outrage-free since last month.
         | 
         | My measurements showed that Bluesky's 'Discover' feed blocked
         | about 75% of emotionally negative material before Jan 20, since
         | then people are inflamed but looking closely at my feed it
         | seems they are deliberately trying to help certain people who
         | felt stuck on X to migrate, that is, giving huge amounts of
         | visibility to journalists, journalism professors, activists,
         | and such so that they can run up 200k+ follower counts.
         | 
         | I understand. (I've been brainstorming ideas about "how to get
         | people off X" with a friend and tonight I'm going to tell him
         | that Bluesky has it) I've used "less like this", "unfollow"
         | [1], "mute", "block" and such and my discover feed is getting
         | good again.
         | 
         | I have two classifiers in the development pipeline, one to
         | detect "screenshots of text" and "image memes", also a text
         | classifier that is better at sentiment than my current one (I
         | think ModernBERT + LSTM should be possible to train reliably,
         | unlike fine-tuned BERTs.) I'm not so much interested in
         | classifying posts as I am in classifying people; some of them
         | are easy, there are 40,000 people who have a certain image meme
         | pinned that I know I never want to follow. Just recently I
         | figured out how to make training sets for these things without
         | having to look too closely at a lot of toxic content.
         | 
         | I'm also eliminating the dependencies that are keeping this
         | from being open sourced or commercialized so I may I have
         | something to share this summer.
         | 
         | [1] one strike for an outrage post
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Discord suffers from the same problems; censorship platforms in
         | general have the same cancer everywhere.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | Have more self respect and consume a better information diet of
         | printed media.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | I need social media for work.
         | 
         | What I did was unfollow everyone and everything, and block all
         | suggested content. The front page is literally empty. Nothing
         | on those websites captures my attention unless I specifically
         | look for it.
         | 
         | This was very effective. These websites have effectively become
         | write-only media for me. They're still here if I need them, but
         | I end up browsing just one page of /r/curatedtumblr and then
         | doing something else.
        
         | huijzer wrote:
         | I'm still on social media (HN, YouTube and Reddit), but blocked
         | all other news sites. They're mostly about outrage too.
        
         | corytheboyd wrote:
         | Yeah it sure is nice this way isn't it! It's pretty boring, but
         | you get to form your own opinions about things, and aren't
         | constantly mad about things that don't affect you. I'll admit
         | to scrolling HN a lot, but I at least get a lot of very useful
         | info out of it, it has leveled me up in unexpected ways over
         | the years.
        
         | IBCNU wrote:
         | Thanks for your comment. Same here, Gen X. Off social media
         | since pandemic. As Nassim Taleb says if it's really important
         | someone will tell you. I feel like I'm on an island. I'm never
         | outraged at all. Of course I hope there's more justice and
         | equity in the world, but I am at peace with things and have no
         | hatred or rage compared to when I was glued to social media.
        
         | jjice wrote:
         | Completely agree. Sounds like we're similarly on the older end
         | of Gen Z, and getting off social media in my first year of
         | college was excellent. I get messages in my group chats from
         | friends being pissed off (often rightfully) by things that our
         | out of their control, but they're force-fed it on social media.
         | 
         | It doesn't help to stare at rage/anxiety inducing things - it
         | doesn't mean you're actually informed all the time.
         | 
         | Plus I'd argue that most things you'll see end up being hogwash
         | and the important stuff will rise to the top and you're
         | generally hear about it anyway.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | The challenge for me is that there is useful stuff in there
         | that I want to access.
         | 
         | There are neighbourhood groups and other really useful forums
         | on Facebook. There are tech discussions on BlueSky.
         | 
         | But it's annoyingly hard to run the gauntlet of politics and
         | outrage bait to get to the stuff I actually want.
        
         | lykahb wrote:
         | I think that the social media is okay as long as no algorithmic
         | feed gets involved. Visiting a few select tech subreddits
         | doesn't affect me negatively. On other platforms the feed can't
         | be avoided as easily.
        
           | djh85 wrote:
           | True. Curate who you follow carefully, and stay away from
           | that "for you" tab
        
         | s1mplicissimus wrote:
         | digital junk food. I haven't stumbled across this term and I
         | gotta say as someone whose right on the edge between millenial
         | and genz this term summarizes what most "public" social media
         | is. I'm old enough to have grown up mostly with TV, with
         | Internet being my escape hatch and
         | twitter/facebook/tiktok/insta feel waaaay closer to old schoold
         | programming TV than Internet. Anyway I'm an Internet person,
         | not a TV person, so I've quit using all of them (I do have some
         | "just in case" unused in years accounts everywhere because I
         | suffer from a bad case of FOMO...)
        
         | zombiwoof wrote:
         | Isn't this how they win? I mean the people in Germany in 1930
         | just said , this is crazy , it doesn't feel right, but hey I
         | have outrage fatigue so the concentration camps are just fine
        
           | warkdarrior wrote:
           | Much of the German population in the 1930s and 1940s was not
           | aware of concentration camps, and learned of them once the
           | Allies arrived.
        
       | mckirk wrote:
       | I can recommend https://newsasfacts.com for at least having a
       | news source that, thanks to its matter-of-fact tone and lack of
       | imagery, is useful for staying informed without getting
       | overwhelmed so easily.
       | 
       | It also puts things into a bit of a global perspective, when you
       | realize how much stuff is going on around the world all the time.
       | Though this of course also means you'll learn things that are on
       | the news everywhere in your country only after they've become
       | relevant enough to register on a global level.
        
         | RIMR wrote:
         | A little weird to see the Bitcoin price listed top-and-center,
         | when it is a hype-driven security. Watching the market,
         | especially crypto markets in real-time is also quite stressful.
         | I don't see the point of having it listed first, before the
         | news...
        
           | tofof wrote:
           | At least the toggles even for free users let you immediately
           | disable market stuff, right alongside changing theme.
        
         | upcoming-sesame wrote:
         | Nice but I find the summary too short without any expansion if
         | you want to learn more
        
         | tofof wrote:
         | I assume you have a subscription? Does that let you turn on or
         | off different topics? I am not interested in the large amount
         | of space devoted to armed conflicts globally, for example.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Propagandists are now going to tell you to ignore what you're
       | hearing and seeing. Just put the news away and relax! The same
       | people spent the last four years telling you to be outraged about
       | things that never happened. A man won the women's boxing at the
       | olympics! Outrage!
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | I don't think it's true that Scientific American spent the last
         | four years telling you to be outraged about things that never
         | happened.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | I was referring to a noticeable subgroup of HN commenters.
        
       | gsaines wrote:
       | TLDR Summary: limit your intake of social media and news.
        
       | nomilk wrote:
       | Optimism might be bland but I can't help it!
       | 
       | Prior to social media, we all had incredibly conflicting views,
       | just wasn't in our faces all the time to get outraged about! So
       | the trick is to remember, by having these
       | discussions/disagreements, we're actually making progress. We
       | hear the loudest voices, but there's always smart and sincere
       | people quietly reading and learning, which is a brilliant
       | outcome!
       | 
       | If you find yourself getting outraged, be disciplined and switch
       | activities (exercise, go for a walk, or turn off the source).
       | 
       | I definitely wouldn't leave social media though! Instead, harness
       | them! Train those algos to give you science, book clubs,
       | fascinating music niches, travel, culture - go deep, explore, and
       | 'follow' liberally - you can very easily remove yourself from a
       | group/page. I've found _insanely_ interesting chemistry and
       | physics pages, not to mention domains I never even knew existed,
       | like color theory and a handful of others. Once you start
       | clicking on politics, you 'll only get more of it. Click on the
       | good stuff!
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | > I definitely wouldn't leave social media though! Instead,
         | harness them! Train those algos to give you science, book
         | clubs, fascinating music niches, travel, culture - go deep,
         | explore, and 'follow' liberally - you can very easily remove
         | yourself from a group/page. I've found insanely interesting
         | chemistry and physics pages, not to mention domains I never
         | even knew existed, like color theory and a handful of others.
         | Once you start clicking on politics, you'll only get more of
         | it. Click on the good stuff!
         | 
         | Sorry, but that last paragraph sounds like AI generated Meta
         | PR.
        
           | nomilk wrote:
           | Ha, fair! 'Sounding like an LLM' might be the ~2025
           | equivalent of being called an NPC. But it could also imply
           | good grammar.
           | 
           | To put it another way, ditching a medium entirely is the
           | incorrect strategy; akin to refusing to read books just
           | because there's many bad ones - obviously, instead, we select
           | the good ones and read those. Same goes for social media
           | pages/groups/profiles
        
       | yergi wrote:
       | Would love to post an honest comment on this topic, but this
       | place has gone reddit-tier woke, and I can't.
       | 
       | Unfortunate, but true. "The bubble of opinion" in is a real
       | thing.
        
       | localghost3000 wrote:
       | After November I totally stopped looking at any and all news and
       | social media with the exception of HN. My reasoning being that
       | you are not actually getting informed by any of those sources.
       | They are geared towards engagement which makes them
       | entertainment. Also, I have absolutely no power to change
       | anything happening right now so knowing about it is just going to
       | make me upset. It's a lose lose IMO. A lot of folks have gotten
       | upset with me about this which I find a bit baffling. Like, what
       | does knowing every minute detail do for me?
       | 
       | The net effect of my news/social media fast has been fairly
       | dramatic. I suddenly have an attention span again. When a persons
       | opinion differs from mine, I generally don't immediately assume
       | they are part of the third reich (although if they keep talking a
       | while I might get there lol).
       | 
       | To be clear I absolutely despise whats happening in the US right
       | now. Enough information makes it to me through friends and family
       | (and HN) that I feel a deep sense of despair. I am just not sure
       | what minute by minute updates on the fuckery happening right now
       | gets me.
        
         | ourmandave wrote:
         | This exactly, even before November.
         | 
         | I finally saw the futility when there were 10,000 articles
         | about Trump tweeting "covfefe".
        
         | xorvoid wrote:
         | I think I did something similar. I decided to severely control
         | my information diet after November and switch to only RSS feeds
         | that I have selected manually and HN. It's gone better than I
         | expected and I feel very little urge to go back.
         | 
         | At the same time, I'm definitely less informed. Though I'm
         | quite surprised how much still permeates despite me not "going
         | looking".
         | 
         | Generally, I think it's more healthy to focus on what you can
         | control and what you have agency over. You can choose what to
         | be outraged over national/global events (and do nothing) or you
         | can instead focus that energy on Doing Something closer to home
         | that's important to you. Which is the better trade?
         | 
         | I'm somewhat conflicted on being less informed esp with big
         | changes happening. And even more conflicted about what kind of
         | world we'd have if everyone chose this strategy. But, it's not
         | unprincipled. The principle is Focus on What You Can Control/Do
         | and put all your energy into that.
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | While limiting your exposure to "outrage" isn't bad advice, it's
       | just more of the ignoring of the issues that she herself calls
       | out in the beginning of the article.
       | 
       | She mentions that people are using "outrage" issues (abortion,
       | gay rights, critical race theory) "as kind of wedge issues to
       | convince people to vote in ways that might be against their own
       | self-interest"...
       | 
       | GREAT! We need more tips on how to train yourself to recognize
       | when that's happening and not get outraged. It boils down to
       | emotional control. If politicians can't use outrage as a tool of
       | control then they'll have to move on (to something better
       | hopefully, but probably not ;).
       | 
       | Here's one tip. If Trump enrages you every time you see him,
       | watch him in a way that allows you to appreciate something about
       | him! He is a cool cucumber. He sheds attacks like water off an
       | umbrella. (whatever, you come up something)... Remember, the goal
       | here is to not let him control your emotions. This isn't about
       | the facts or morality or how he "lies".
        
       | morpheos137 wrote:
       | If you're outraged by anything that does not directly impact your
       | life you're doing life wrong. We all have limited time and
       | energy. I have never been able to understand people who get
       | emotional over things they read online that have no impact on
       | their day to day life.
        
         | easymodex wrote:
         | I know, but what do I do about global warming and
         | microplastics? Our leaders don't seem to care.
        
           | morpheos137 wrote:
           | Assuming this is not a joke, do whatever makes you feel best
           | knowing that you as an individual have negligible impact on
           | the outcome. Personally I don't worry one bit about these two
           | issues because (1) they do not seem to effect my daily life
           | except when I need to drink through a crappy cardboard straw
           | (2) I do not expect them to impact my daily life in the
           | foreseeable future (3) most important I as an individual can
           | not change the way things are and I find I am happiest when I
           | don't worry about things I can't control so I choose not to
           | worry and some how despite my indolent individual choice the
           | world goes on and the sky doesn't fall. (4) I personally
           | believe the harms of these two things have been greatly
           | exaggerated by people with an interest in doing so. (5) my
           | time on earth is limited why waste it being manipulated by
           | words and pictures I see on a screen to be pointlessly
           | anxious or outraged for someone else's benefit at the cost of
           | my own happiness?
        
         | DFHippie wrote:
         | > If you're outraged by anything that does not directly impact
         | your life you're doing life wrong.
         | 
         | This is a pointless truism. Everything relies on "does not
         | directly impact your life", and there's no useful guidance on
         | that point.
        
           | UniverseHacker wrote:
           | It's not pointless at all- it's the core idea behind Stoic
           | philosophy aka "the dichotomy of control," and has proven
           | very effective at improving people's mental health through
           | modern therapy methods like CBT and ACT.
           | 
           | One can still do everything in their power to prepare for,
           | and mitigate things outside their control, while still
           | keeping in mind what is in your control and isn't so you
           | don't become emotionally dependent on outcomes outside your
           | control, which is ruinous for mental health.
           | 
           | Having empathy, and caring about doing the right thing
           | actually work better when you stop obsessing over and wasting
           | all of your energy on things you cannot control.
        
         | kccoder wrote:
         | > I have never been able to understand people who get emotional
         | over things they read online that have no impact on their day
         | to day life.
         | 
         | Maybe they have more empathy for the plight of others?
         | 
         | Also, it is often the case that the events of today which don't
         | directly affect you, if not stopped, will affect you before you
         | know it, at which point it is too late to do anything about.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | It will not lessen your outrage, but I recently built a news
       | search engine that pulls from 200 selected sources for a more
       | limited, spam-free experience. https://mozberg.com
        
       | 65 wrote:
       | Saying "just quit social media" or something doesn't work. You
       | have to have the mindset that you cannot control what happens in
       | the vast majority of news stories. If the federal government does
       | something I don't like, it's not worth my time to be angry and
       | let it linger in my head for the day, which only hurts me.
       | Outrage seems to come from a lack of control over a situation.
       | 
       | Shift your focus to things you can possibly control, e.g. the
       | news that's happening in your local community where you have a
       | say in how things are done.
        
       | nineplay wrote:
       | Been there, done that. I've tried to stay informed but not
       | outraged for the last 8 years and it didn't make a damn bit of
       | difference. I got involved in local issues, I phone banked, I
       | tried to put my money where it would do the most good.
       | 
       | I'm out. I'm hiding away and hoping nothing affects me
       | personally, and if it does I'm not going to think there's
       | anything I could have done about it.
       | 
       | We're not in control anymore. Not unless there are any tech
       | billionaires lurking on HN, and they don't give a shit about us.
        
         | fransje26 wrote:
         | > Not unless there are any tech billionaires lurking on HN, and
         | they don't give a shit about us.
         | 
         | If I understand correctly, they are mostly busy taking over the
         | country at the moment. No time for HN..
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | > And this just really has been accelerating, I guess, in the
       | last few years because of our political polarization and other
       | world events.
       | 
       | Feels like the causality might be the other way around.
        
       | yakhinvadim wrote:
       | I tried to solve this problem by making AI rank the stories by
       | significance and rewriting the news titles in a boring, factual
       | style.
       | 
       | I think it worked quite well, there's only about 10 headlines a
       | day (out of 15k+) that get a significance rating higher than of
       | 5.5 out of 10.
       | 
       | It also helps avoiding the overfocus on western issues and
       | actually learn what's happening around the world.
       | 
       | https://www.newsminimalist.com/
        
         | j_bum wrote:
         | I love the idea of this tool, but there are serious issues with
         | using LLMs to summarize articles and text. Re: Apple's
         | Notification Summary Debacle
         | 
         | For example, this headline with a score > 5 is flatly
         | incorrect.
         | 
         | "China launches innovative flying robot to explore Moon's south
         | pole for water resources"
         | 
         | Every article listed in the summary says the launch is planned
         | for 2026.
        
           | yakhinvadim wrote:
           | Thanks! Good point.
           | 
           | I think there will always be some hallucinations until
           | they're solved on a model level, but I'll also try to nudge
           | AI now to be more precise with the headlines.
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | Neat! Sounds similar to another app I've used:
         | https://www.boringreport.org
        
         | starik36 wrote:
         | That's a pretty cool website! What prompt do you use to
         | determine what is and isn't significant?
        
           | yakhinvadim wrote:
           | Can't share the full prompt, but I share methodology on the
           | about page: https://www.newsminimalist.com/about
        
       | gdubya wrote:
       | That transcription reads very much like a NotebookLM "podcast"
       | summarising the actual article at
       | https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/outrage-fatigue-i...
        
       | jsbg wrote:
       | Why is it an axiom that we need to "stay informed"? The vast
       | majority of news is things that don't affect you, and of the
       | things that do affect you, the vast majority of that is things
       | you can't do anything about. And if they do affect you you're
       | sure to find out without following the news. The news is tailored
       | to make you feel outraged so that you will consume more of it.
       | 
       | As far as social media goes, just don't follow accounts that are
       | annoying. If some accounts are friends in real life but
       | insufferable online, just mute them. Other than friends I follow
       | accounts about food and pottery, I don't see any reason to get
       | off social media, I love it.
        
         | breaker-kind wrote:
         | First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
         | because I was not a socialist.
         | 
         | Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out
         | --because I was not a trade unionist.
         | 
         | Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--because I
         | was not a Jew.
         | 
         | Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for
         | me.
         | 
         | --Martin Niemoller
         | 
         | the goal of fascist political propaganda is to convince you
         | that you can't do anything about the state of the world.
         | clearly, it worked on you.
        
           | jsbg wrote:
           | > the goal of fascist political propaganda is to convince you
           | that you can't do anything about the state of the world
           | 
           | What are you doing about it?
        
       | sporkydistance wrote:
       | Isn't this something that marginalized groups have had to deal
       | with since their existence? I mean, there's a reason why in the
       | US black men die at higher rates from heart disease and stress-
       | related illnesses. Is this getting attention now because white
       | people are feeling it? I grew up in the 70's, and the hatred
       | toward gays that erupted in the 80's due to Reagan was impossible
       | to explain to someone born in 2000 who grew up seeing gay people
       | everwhere. Not saying it doesn't need attention, but I think we
       | could probably turned to marginalized groups for tips! (RIP my
       | karma.)
        
       | metalman wrote:
       | Active Balancing Habits. Reminders to self of thd things that as
       | an indivual you/I are doing that offset the enshitification. Like
       | I am now extra happy that I cant stand the taste of store bought
       | eggs, and hope that others can get past thete outrage at the
       | prices, and thrn evauate if they actualy feel better, just by not
       | eating the sulferous nasty things. And more selfish, me time,
       | personal care, foooood, foooood, yummy fooood. and pushing myself
       | to work harder and use my creativity to overcome the inane
       | obsticles to,..... everything finnishing all the things on my
       | list having a lot of lists crumpling up, checked off lists, and
       | useing the paper to light my stove, which heats my tea and so
       | when I do face the shitstorm of events, I have the energy to take
       | it, get mad and put that energy back into the things on my list,
       | or one of the many random, oh.....that needs doing.....now!
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | I wish there was a modern "news wire" service to help with this
       | problem.
       | 
       | I'm thinking tweet-sized news stories, a few per day at most, no
       | threads, no images, no links, nothing but 140 characters of pure
       | text. You could even deliver them as texts or unclickable push
       | notifications.
       | 
       | That format heavily discourages clickbait (because there are no
       | clicks to be had) and forces journalists to only include the
       | information that actually matters, with no fluff about how they
       | were sipping hot cocoa in a nice indie restaurant in Montana when
       | talking to the subject of the story, a 38-year-old man wearing a
       | polo shirt.
       | 
       | You could run an operation like this on a shoestring budget, with
       | one or two individuals regurgitating news stories from mainstream
       | sources in a much denser format, minus the outrage. Many,
       | including me, would probably be willing to subscribe.
        
         | lannisterstark wrote:
         | Or you could just read actual wire services. AP/Reuters etc
         | have close to no clickbait.
        
           | cenamus wrote:
           | Yeah, news ticker sounds like the perfect solution. If
           | something relevant comes up you can still look up some full
           | articles
        
             | carbocation wrote:
             | The front page of Reuters right now is a story about a
             | major presidential proposal[1]. I think that is certainly
             | headline news in the traditional sense. Still, it would be
             | nice if there were _additionally_ a news wire that didn 't
             | cover statements, only events.
             | 
             | 1 = (Not describing the content because that's not the
             | point.)
        
         | yakhinvadim wrote:
         | I'm sorry for plugging my project twice in this thread.
         | 
         | But what you're asking sounds extremely close to what I made:
         | https://www.newsminimalist.com/
         | 
         | If you want fewer stories (by default it shows about 25 a day),
         | adjust the slider to a higher significance threshold.
        
         | biophysboy wrote:
         | There are email newsletters, but there is no unbiased source.
         | Even a dry, "moderate" source is biased, in that it chooses to
         | ignore taking a stance, and thus requires ignoring some details
         | altogether
        
         | roguecoder wrote:
         | Part of the problem is that good journalism is expensive, and
         | has been systematically undermined by monied interests around
         | the world.
         | 
         | What is needed is a sustainable business model for quality
         | journalism, set up in a way that is resistant to income
         | inequality.
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | I subscribed to International Intrigue, which sends a
         | digestible summary by email every day.
         | 
         | https://www.internationalintrigue.io/
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | This seems completely pointless as the entire reason of news is
         | to be informed of what's going on, and you can't do that in
         | "tweet-sized news stories". For starters, simple "fact"-based
         | news like "X happened" is really not bias-free, as there is a
         | lot of context on why "X happened", or things leading up to it,
         | or stuff like that.
         | 
         | Never mind of course there is an inherent bias in choosing what
         | to publish and what not to publish.
         | 
         | So it's not forcing journalists to "only include the
         | information that actually matters", it's forcing journalists to
         | exclude tons of information that really does matter. In fact,
         | it's worse than pointless: it's actively harmful to mislead
         | people with these "unbiased facts", because they're not.
        
       | neuroelectron wrote:
       | Google's attack on RSS has been quite successful. Not a single
       | mention here in the 150+ comments. I would think the HN crowd
       | would be savvy enough to recommend it on this subject.
        
         | roguecoder wrote:
         | Tiny Tiny RSS is still awesome, twelve years later. It is
         | super-easy to self-host: https://tt-rss.org/
        
       | redeux wrote:
       | > ...limiting yourself to checking the news a couple times a day
       | instead of, like, every hour or, you know, getting those alerts
       | on your phone all the time.
       | 
       | A couple times a day? Who needs to check the news that often?
       | I've not checked the news at all this year and it hasn't
       | negatively impacted me at all.
        
       | snapcaster wrote:
       | I think "being informed" is very overrated in general. Often it
       | means being informed about palace intrigue and intelligence
       | service/corporate narratives. I would say that in general media
       | consumption or "staying informed" should be seen as a vice not a
       | virtue
        
         | declan_roberts wrote:
         | Self proclaimed "news junkies" are some of the most
         | insufferable people I know.
        
         | deltarholamda wrote:
         | "If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do
         | read the newspaper, you are misinformed." -- Col. Jack O'Neill
         | (with 2 Ls)
        
         | stackedinserter wrote:
         | It's not overrated, it's often confused with "to understand
         | what's happening".
         | 
         | To "be informed" is like to take a look at a chess or go board:
         | positions are clear, black and white pieces are here and there,
         | but it takes skill to really understand the current dynamics of
         | a game.
         | 
         | Add media bias ("let's show the board at this angle that looks
         | better for our side") and now we have "informed" population
         | that's being surprised by reality every day.
        
       | UberFly wrote:
       | I have a New Yorker (I think that's where it's from) cartoon on
       | my wall. It's a man and woman walking down the street and she's
       | saying "My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with
       | my desire to remain sane." It's a good daily reminder for me.
        
       | matteoraso wrote:
       | Why is it even important to stay informed? In virtually all
       | cases, there's very little that I can do about anything, so I'm
       | just wasting energy by looking at the news.
        
         | verisimi wrote:
         | > Why is it even important to stay informed?
         | 
         | So that you stay in formation with everyone else, of course!
        
         | jpollock wrote:
         | Because the behavior of your chosen leaders reflects on you?
         | Ostracism is a thing.
         | 
         | From the "greed" point of view - because your chosen leaders
         | can have dramatic and immediate impact on your net wealth.
         | 
         | Even if hedonistic, "I have no assets", your chosen leaders
         | will choose how comfortable your life is.
        
         | settsu wrote:
         | That's your right and I can understand why you might feel that
         | way, but you should probably understand the compromises that
         | are being made in doing so.
        
         | roguecoder wrote:
         | Why do you believe there is very little you can do? What
         | collaborations have you tried so far?
         | 
         | One of the reasons I love reading history is realizing the
         | agency individual humans have when we get together. Individuals
         | can't change much alone, but we don't have to do things alone.
         | 
         | You can choose not to use your agency, but that is still a
         | choice to support the status quo.
        
         | stackedinserter wrote:
         | To predict future and make your decisions, e.g. on where to
         | live, what skills to learn and what to do in general.
         | 
         | If you're on HN, it's most likely you can't control reality
         | much, but you can navigate it better.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | > _Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a
       | little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for
       | one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a
       | shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't
       | want to act, or even talk alone; you don't want to "go out of
       | your way to make trouble." Why not?--Well, you are not in the
       | habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing
       | alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty_
       | 
       | > _Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of
       | decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in
       | the general community, "everyone" is happy. One hears no protest,
       | and certainly sees none. You speak privately to your colleagues,
       | some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They
       | say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an
       | alarmist."_
       | 
       | > _But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds of
       | thousands will join with you, never comes. That's the difficulty.
       | If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come
       | immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes,
       | millions, would have been sufficiently shocked--if, let us say,
       | the gassing of the Jews in '43 had come immediately after the
       | "German Firm" stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in '33.
       | But of course this isn't the way it happens. In between come all
       | of the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each
       | of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is
       | not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand
       | at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D._
       | - From "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45"
        
         | awfulneutral wrote:
         | Yes, this is really tricky, because nowadays we have people
         | shouting from the rooftops continuously, and half of them are
         | shouting the exact opposite thing as the other half. WWII was
         | openly racist, so from a modern perspective it would be easy to
         | recognize and condemn some of the early behavior, but these
         | days it's more about dog whistling and thought crimes. Probably
         | the signs we would all recognize are not going to happen. But
         | we have already moved a dramatic amount in terms of normalized
         | behavior, from 20 years ago.
        
         | flocciput wrote:
         | Similarly:
         | 
         |  _If you're waiting for a moment where you're like "this is
         | it," I'm telling you, it never comes. Nobody comes on TV and
         | says "things are officially bad." There's no launch party for
         | decay. It's just a pileup of outrages and atrocities in between
         | friendships and weddings and perhaps an unusual amount of
         | alcohol._
         | 
         | from "I Lived Through Collapse. America Is Already There."
         | https://gen.medium.com/i-lived-through-collapse-america-is-a...
        
       | rqtwteye wrote:
       | I mainly read Reuters now. It's refreshingly boring.
        
       | munchler wrote:
       | Scientific American used to be a great magazine and should get
       | back to what made it so valuable: Covering important ideas in
       | science without watering them down. Their website now describes
       | it as "the essential guide to the most awe-inspiring advances in
       | science and technology". Blech.
        
         | fritzo wrote:
         | Have you tried Science News? I currently read neither, but at
         | one point I switched from the fluffy Scientific American to the
         | no-nonsense Science News.
        
           | munchler wrote:
           | Thank you for the suggestion. I will give it a try.
        
       | gadders wrote:
       | Scientific American: "It's so bad that we live in such polarised
       | times."
       | 
       | Also Scientific American:
       | 
       | Science journal editor resigns after calling Gen X fascists over
       | Trump win
       | 
       | Laura Helmuth leaves Scientific American following controversial
       | social media posts in which she lashed out at 'bigoted' voters
       | 
       | https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/15/laura-helmuth...
        
       | vlan0 wrote:
       | Happiness is an inside job. Sitting with your emotions is very
       | important. That's not to say we can tolerate an unlimited amount
       | of information. But rather to highlight that we can become the
       | observer of our emotions, rather than be consumed by them.
        
       | glial wrote:
       | I tried blocking all social media and news sites and instead
       | subscribing to the print version of The Week. Honestly, it was
       | great. But eventually the siren song of internet-fueled dopamine
       | eventually lured me back...
        
       | logifail wrote:
       | > "No matter what you believe, I'm willing to bet you've been
       | feeling a lot of outrage lately. To me personally, it feels
       | unavoidable: I can't look down at my phone or glance up at a TV
       | without seeing something that makes me upset."
       | 
       | Umm no, I've not felt any outrage.
       | 
       | Not because I'm particularly satisfied with any recent political
       | events, but because I've stopped consuming daily news from
       | outlets where generating outrage has become a financial
       | incentive.
       | 
       | I'm not on FB, my only use of social media is to help co-ordinate
       | my kids' lives. I never watch TV, I've no idea what today's
       | mainstream media clickbait stories are, I'm just not that
       | interested.
        
       | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
       | > Feltman: Yeah, and what is it about outrage that helps
       | misinformation spread?
       | 
       | > Lewis: So I think part of it is the fact that it's more
       | engaging. It, you know, activates your emotions, and so people
       | are more primed to respond to that.
       | 
       | This is why upvote-style forums, like Hacker News, need to be
       | treated with heavy scrutiny. They are hard-wired to bubble out of
       | control when an opinion is the right combination of popular and
       | passionate.
       | 
       | One way we can improve this situation, as contributors, is to try
       | to stick to more logical, dispassionate responses. This is
       | difficult to do because we all feel like what we are writing is
       | the most important thing in the world and everyone else needs to
       | read it.
        
       | daedrdev wrote:
       | I just feel like there are a few recent things to actually be
       | outraged about
        
       | unnamed76ri wrote:
       | Is your outrage changing anything? Is your outrage helping or
       | hurting your mental health? Is your outrage helping or hurting
       | your relationships?
       | 
       | Choose a different path
        
       | Glyptodon wrote:
       | I don't have outrage fatigue. Outrages are outrages and they are
       | what they are. Are there many exaggerations and fake outrages?
       | Sure. But things like the USA's current constitutional crisis are
       | real.
       | 
       | What I struggle with isn't fatigue at outrage, it's knowing what
       | to do about it.
       | 
       | I think violence is going to become more common, but I don't
       | particularly think it will be effective.
       | 
       | So less so than outrage, it's the feeling that we're trapped in a
       | real life doom loop with no clear off ramp that I struggle with.
       | 
       | I would like to do something... But what?
        
         | philomath_mn wrote:
         | > I think violence is going to become more common
         | 
         | What kind and why?
        
           | Glyptodon wrote:
           | Stuff like the Thompson or Abe assassinations.
           | 
           | That said, I think the why is more complicated. At least in
           | the US I think there's a general sense that the world is
           | backsliding, and that people feel like any bump on the road
           | of life risks turning into a complete derailment. But this
           | doesn't lead to any one particular ideology or course of
           | action, so much as externalization of angst, whether against
           | individuals, systems, or the "nobody pays attention to our
           | angst let's burn it all down" attitude that's somewhat
           | widespread.
        
             | genewitch wrote:
             | for the record, not everyone in the US thinks the sky is
             | falling. it's the same extremely vocal groups as before
             | that do, from what i can see.
             | 
             | Some of us are cautiously optimistic.
        
             | cowfriend wrote:
             | > that people feel like any bump on the road of life risks
             | turning into a complete derailment.
             | 
             | Maybe because in many ways it can be?
             | 
             | Unexpected medical condition -> crushing debt
             | 
             | Police stop goes bad
             | 
             | Job loss for reasons outside of your control
             | 
             | Wildfires burn your house down, or some other natural
             | disaster
        
         | blooalien wrote:
         | > So less so than outrage, it's the feeling that we're trapped
         | in a real life doom loop with no clear off ramp that I struggle
         | with.
         | 
         | Glad I'm not alone, but knowing that doesn't change the
         | situation. Still unable to wake from the nightmare... :(
        
           | starky wrote:
           | Last week I realized that this is bringing up the same
           | feelings of anxiety as early 2020 where I'm living through
           | something that I have little ability to change and don't know
           | how bad it actually is going to get.
        
         | dayofthedaleks wrote:
         | Consider watching Paul Shraeder's _First Reformed_.
         | 
         | We're all nearly powerless but our choices do matter.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | I decided that other people are far more organized than I am
         | and can respond more effectively, so I'm outsourcing political
         | action in the form of donations. I've earmarked 3% of my income
         | every month for a list of selected charities that currently
         | includes the ACLU, the HRC, and a short list of smaller ones.
         | 
         | I encourage you to do the same!
        
           | returningfory2 wrote:
           | Edit: decided I don't want to engage on this issue.
        
           | palmotea wrote:
           | > I've earmarked 3% of my income every month for a list of
           | selected charities that currently includes the ACLU, the HRC,
           | and a short list of smaller ones.
           | 
           | I don't think that's a good investment, considering how badly
           | those organizations failed in order to bring us to today.
        
             | andy_ppp wrote:
             | How did these organisations make people vote for Donald
             | Trump?
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | I am happy to learn about better alternatives.
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | That's exactly where the fatigue comes from. Knowing how bad
         | things are without knowing what to do about it.
        
       | stackedinserter wrote:
       | Those who have outrage are the same people that think they are
       | calm, reasonable, considerate and don't have outrage, at all.
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | https://neuters.de
       | 
       | Simple, no ads, and with just the headlines it's enough.
        
       | cess11 wrote:
       | "Lately"?
       | 
       | The genocide in Gaza has been going intensely for more than a
       | year, dead and mutilated children streamed out pretty much every
       | day. Now it has moved to the West Bank.
       | 
       | Similarly a genocidal process has been ongoing in Sudan,
       | perpetrated by a proxy of the UAE, close partner to the US.
       | 
       | Do usians not see these images and only just now with the new
       | administration's inauguration entered a mood of distress?
        
       | toasterlovin wrote:
       | I think it's always worth keeping in mind that every single piece
       | of media you consume was created primarily to benefit its creator
       | and almost always the relationship is parasitic (you're the
       | host). Only rarely does media engage in mutualism.
        
       | upcoming-sesame wrote:
       | Not exactly a social network but I am kind of addicted to the
       | Google Home curated list of news - that thing on Android (maybe
       | just Pixel?) when you swipe all the way to the left.
       | 
       | I read it every morning in bed.
       | 
       | It contains all the topics I'm interested in as it knows me
       | probably better than I know myself.
        
       | Venkatesh10 wrote:
       | Consuming quality content over overconsumption is the key. Plus
       | if you have already crossed multiple levels of outrage fatigue,
       | then at that point you should be aware of it, hence becoming more
       | calm in future. If you see what is in front of you and know you
       | cannot change anything, why outrage? why fatigue? just move on.
        
       | nanreh wrote:
       | This is not a good article. Shocked that it got so much attention
       | here. It's full of garden variety common sense.
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | "Mute words" goes a long way. Every platform should have it.
        
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