[HN Gopher] DoppelBot: Replace Your CEO with an LLM
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       DoppelBot: Replace Your CEO with an LLM
        
       Author : gk1
       Score  : 200 points
       Date   : 2025-02-04 15:08 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
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       | tombert wrote:
       | My dad had a manager recently that he started calling "VPGPT"
       | behind his back.
       | 
       | He felt like the guy primarily spoke in truisms and with long-
       | winded statements that ultimately said very little but gave the
       | illusion of having depth. He wasn't a huge fan.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | I had one of those. I thought he was fooling upper management
         | until I started working directly with the CTO, who was very
         | open about the fact that this VP was more about performance
         | than execution. He explained that the guy's overwhelming desire
         | to look good and be viewed as a thought leader also made him
         | very receptive to incentives. You could give him a task, tell
         | him it was important for his career, and he'd get it done
         | because he was so afraid of looking bad. If it was something he
         | could write about on LinkedIn or his personal newsletter, even
         | better.
         | 
         | The challenge was setting the incentives correctly so he
         | couldn't game them. He was tasked with hiring a team to
         | accomplish some specific goal once and the first set of people
         | he tried to hire were not qualified at all, they were just the
         | first people he could get to interview and want to join. You
         | had to watch him like a hawk to make sure he wasn't running yet
         | another performative game.
         | 
         | The other weird part is that a lot of candidates were really
         | impressed by him. He dressed well and had hair that obviously
         | took a long time to do every morning and he spoke with
         | confidence. This was remarkably effective at convincing many
         | candidates that he knew what he was doing and could run a tight
         | ship. Lot of disappointed people trying to leave his team after
         | the first 6 months.
        
           | mjburgess wrote:
           | They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other
           | people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to
           | lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for
           | people to see: They make their desks wide and the ties on
           | their garments long; they love the place of honor at
           | corporate retreats and the most important seats in the
           | interviews; they love to be greeted with respect in the
           | meeting rooms and to be called a Leader by others.
           | 
           | ...the more things change, the more they stay the same...
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss"
        
               | jondwillis wrote:
               | 1971 was such a good year for music (see:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_in_music and Apple TV+
               | came out with https://www.apple.com/tv-
               | pr/originals/1971-the-year-that-mus... a few years ago)
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | It used to be the case that speaking in that register was a
         | strong signal of a social pedigree and an expensive education.
         | Now it's a signal of people being brainless and easily
         | replaceable.
         | 
         | You're also seeing it in politics where politicians that don't
         | think before they speak too much are seen as more authentic and
         | competent than ones that hire teams of consultants to carefully
         | massage every statement they make.
        
           | babyshake wrote:
           | This effect will probably be more pronounced in coming years.
           | Being able to speak and act in ways that are obviously not
           | AI.
        
             | empath75 wrote:
             | The thing is that AIs are also good at mimicking
             | informal/off-the-cuff speech, too. And people are lazy, so
             | they'll fall back on "casual" cliches, which AIs (and
             | consultant-driven politicians) will be just as good at
             | mimicking. It's going to be the rare person who can stay
             | ahead of that. It'll be an endless treadmill.
        
           | thundergolfer wrote:
           | > It used to be the case that speaking in that register was a
           | strong signal of a social pedigree and an expensive
           | education.
           | 
           | It's not the same register. There's a vast difference between
           | the extemporaneous speech of the old school patricians and
           | today's C-suite corp-speak.
           | 
           | Here's Robert F Kennedy Jr. speaking off the cuff at a public
           | event moments after hearing that MLK had been assassinated:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2kWIa8wSC0&t=238s.
           | 
           | That's the speaking style of social pedigree and an expensive
           | education. You'll tend to find it contains lifts of poetry,
           | like Kennedy's evocation of Aeschylus, and little reference
           | to 'synergy', 'collaboration', 'efficiency', etc.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Maybe our standards are rock bottom now, but that speech
             | did not seem to me to be "off the cuff." It seemed
             | rehearsed, polished, edited and wordsmithed, like any other
             | prepared speech by a politician. If he was truly winging
             | it, then wow, what a talent!
        
         | bufferoverflow wrote:
         | > _the guy primarily spoke in truisms and with long-winded
         | statements that ultimately said very little but gave the
         | illusion of having depth_.
         | 
         | The term for that is deepety.
         | 
         | https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | I'm saddened to tell you fellow hackers here that the real world
       | will be more like: "Replace your knowledge worker with an LLM"
       | ordered by your CEO.
        
         | tbrake wrote:
         | I feel most bad for the other frogs in roles whose pots haven't
         | even been put on the AI stovetop yet. I have general feeling
         | they feel they're safe.
         | 
         | Looking at you specifically, Project/Program managers with
         | little output other than attending meetings and asking for
         | status updates and futzing with JIRA to get reports.
         | 
         | The dev frogs might not even be finished boiling before you
         | notice your steam.
        
         | hibikir wrote:
         | This makes perfect sense when you consider who is making the
         | decisions. If you are trying to, say, replace an ad-buying team
         | with an AI that supposedly does the job better, your goal has
         | to be to sell it at a high enough level that the political
         | pressure of having the old department employed doesn't tank
         | everything regardless of results.
         | 
         | One can try to sell to a CEO than an IT department is a cost
         | center, and they can bring in the same results for less. But to
         | replace a CEO you need to sell to the board, and the board is
         | typically full of CEOs. Even a far superior CEO that costs $1 a
         | day is a hard sell when the CEO is your buddy, and you aren't
         | going to be making a mint as a board member for getting rid of
         | said buddy.
        
           | woah wrote:
           | If far superior AI CEOs existed then only one board would
           | need to replace their CEO with AI. The company would then
           | dominate the marketplace because of the far superior
           | decisions being made, and the rest would be forced to follow.
           | 
           | If AI CEOs were slightly inferior to human CEOs, but cost $1
           | per year, it still wouldn't be worth replacing an expensive
           | human CEO, unless that CEO's compensation was worth more than
           | a few percent of revenue (it never is).
           | 
           | I wouldn't want to invest my money in a company which was
           | making worse decisions to try to save money on the CEO, when
           | the money paid to the CEO is going to have very little effect
           | on my return on investment. That sounds like a good way to
           | for my investment to underperform. The only winner in that
           | scenario is online forum posters who want to feel jealous of
           | the abstract concept of a "CEO".
        
         | jollyllama wrote:
         | Yes, due to the power of the relative positions, but I'd like
         | to point out
         | 
         | >Replace Your CEO with an LLM
         | 
         | Lossless, as they're already constrained so tightly in their
         | functions by regulations.
         | 
         | >Replace your knowledge worker with an LLM
         | 
         | Lossy, in many cases.
        
       | coreyh14444 wrote:
       | I'm mostly curious about the decision to do fine-tuning here
       | instead of synthesizing a good system message, maybe a RAG setup
       | with access to the slack database, etc. I tried fine-tuning on a
       | content generation case when GPT 4 first came out and we had much
       | better results without it. Also, you don't get the benefit of
       | upgrading to new models when they are released.
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | I think you're putting way too much thought into what is
         | basically a comedy bit.
        
         | charles_irl wrote:
         | I worked on this project a bit! These are great questions.
         | 
         | Fine-tuning works very well for style (as opposed to factual
         | knowledge), which is all we're trying to achieve here -- as
         | another commenter put it, it's a "comedy bit" for a company
         | Slack.
         | 
         | In fact, fine-tuning for style works well enough that we find
         | it pretty easy to just re-train when new models come out.
         | There's sometimes some YAML-fiddling required to get training
         | frameworks to work with different model series (e.g. a DeepSeek
         | series model vs a LLaMA series model), but it's not too
         | onerous. IMO, the ideal ML pipeline looks less like the bespoke
         | process common these days and more like a materialized view
         | (shouts to pgML). That's easy to automate and so reduces the
         | gap with prompting.
         | 
         | On the other hand, it seemed harder to craft a generic system
         | prompt and a generic retrieval system that would work across
         | organizations to define user communication style.
        
       | bawana wrote:
       | imagine the share price jump when the first corp announces this!
        
       | lenerdenator wrote:
       | It's fun to think about, but if you want to really reign in the
       | C-suite, you need to start setting up systems within companies
       | that allow for the rank-and-file to replace bad CEOs.
       | 
       | We've spent the last 80 years (ostensibly) talking about how
       | great representative government is, then we let people own a
       | majority of voting shares so that they can run companies like
       | dictatorships. I've worked at a company that could have remained
       | more competitive (and done a better job of maintaining software
       | that is critical to human life) if there had been more uptake of
       | ideas from workers instead of simply trying to make shareholders
       | happy.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | > We've spent the last 80 years (ostensibly) talking about how
         | great representative government is, then we let people own a
         | majority of voting shares so that they can run companies like
         | dictatorships.
         | 
         | I think it's basically admitting that the right dictator, if
         | they are there based on merit, can really perform better than
         | someone who wins by their skill at campaigning. Forget voting
         | shares - even when a single person doesn't have that amount of
         | control, you have a small board elected by shareholders who is
         | essentially electing a dictator.
         | 
         | Personally I think most companies would do far worse if rank
         | and file employees selected the CEO. But I haven't thought much
         | about it. Curious what ideas HN has on this aspect.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | I don't see it much of an admission of anything, personally.
           | The admission would have had to come as an answer to a
           | question that was never asked. To me, it's more of a way to
           | keep the ruling class in place. It used to be done through
           | government, now it's done through corporations.
           | 
           | And honestly, the corporation is a far more attractive model
           | if you're in that racket. Rioters don't burn down corporate
           | HQs, they burn down police stations. Public sector pay sucks.
           | The corruption would be far too obvious... well, it would
           | have been until relatively recently.
        
           | benxh wrote:
           | To prove you right, you can read up on the incredible giga-
           | brained countrywide experiments by Kardelj in Socialist
           | Yugoslavia [0]. The result being a country where no-one
           | wanted to work, and everyone had a great standard of living
           | (while the IMF didn't call in its loans). And then the entire
           | country collapsed all at once under the accumulated
           | mismanagement.
           | 
           | [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-
           | management#Yug...
        
             | bdndndndbve wrote:
             | It's wild to me that despite tremendous resources and 100+
             | years of time capitalism still kills millions of people a
             | year with starvation and preventable diseases. But every
             | right winger has a pet wikipedia page about a failed
             | communist state with no critical examination of _why_ they
             | failed beyond  "communism bad".
             | 
             | To clarify my stance I'm an anarchist and that page has a
             | lot of good examples of successful worker owned
             | collectives.
        
               | zemvpferreira wrote:
               | To me it's equally as wild that you say such a thing when
               | no system in human history did as much as capitalism to
               | alleviate hunger and disease. In fact all other systems
               | combined still can't touch the progress we've made to
               | eradicate famine and disease while "under capitalism".
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | There are good critically examined rebuttals if you
               | actually look for them beyond Wikipedia which is not
               | designed for that purpose. I read a book recently called
               | Socialism: the failed idea that never dies, and while it
               | has a clickbait title, the arguments are pretty cogent as
               | to why people throughout history want to enact socialism
               | based systems and why they eventually fail.
        
           | wat10000 wrote:
           | The advantages of democracy are a peaceful transition of
           | power and non-violent outlets for political action. That is
           | to say, you don't have to worry about a succession war when
           | the king dies, and if people don't like what the government
           | is doing they tend to advocate and vote rather than try to
           | overthrow it.
           | 
           | These advantages don't really apply to companies. Your life
           | isn't tied to a company the way it is to your government, so
           | if you don't like how they chose the leader or what they're
           | doing, you can leave.
        
             | Slackwise wrote:
             | > Your life isn't tied to a company
             | 
             | Health insurance isn't tied to a company? Your ability to
             | survive and feed your family isn't tied to your company?
             | Lack of opportunities in the job market? Lack of equal
             | salary/benefits at alternative companies? Non-competes,
             | H1-B visas....
             | 
             | > so if you don't like how they chose the leader or what
             | they're doing, you can leave.
             | 
             | Just one small thing Ben: leave to work for _who?_ Who isn
             | 't hiring CEOs and running businesses the same way as
             | everyone else?
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | Please don't quote half a sentence and then argue with it
               | when the second half is an important qualifier.
        
               | t-writescode wrote:
               | Many of these are uniquely American problems, and the
               | many of the people and especially the highest in power in
               | the United States have chosen and continue to choose to
               | bind all of that to the company you work for (or don't).
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | Yes, it's ironic that a democracy has exactly created the
               | situation they lament about, the lack of universal
               | healthcare. Unfortunately there is no political will to
               | do it, while ironically an autocrat could cut through the
               | red tape and get it done, as it had been enacted in
               | several Asian countries in the last half century.
        
           | glitchc wrote:
           | You truly do get the best and the worst with dictators, as
           | history has shown.
        
           | furyofantares wrote:
           | > I think it's basically admitting that the right dictator,
           | if they are there based on merit, can really perform better
           | than someone who wins by their skill at campaigning.
           | 
           | Sure. But also there are big differences between companies
           | and countries/government.
           | 
           | Companies compete in a market. There isn't much of a
           | marketplace for country/government. This is a check on
           | individual power, and forces the company to perform somewhat
           | in alignment with what we want as a society. Concentration of
           | power (monopoly) is still an issue in a market and so we
           | regulate the market.
           | 
           | The "dictator" of a company answers to both the market and to
           | regulators, making it less dangerous as a concentration of
           | power than an actual dictator.
           | 
           | Related, it is totally okay for companies to fail, and they
           | regularly do. We are a lot less okay with governments
           | failing.
           | 
           | Companies can also serve a niche. Governments need to serve
           | their entire population. Governments are tasked with all
           | sorts of collective action problems for diverse groups with
           | varying opinions; companies get to pick their market. It's
           | unclear that CEOs tell us much about a dictator trying to
           | serve a population with a range of opinions.
        
             | lenerdenator wrote:
             | > The "dictator" of a company answers to both the market
             | and to regulators, making it less dangerous as a
             | concentration of power than an actual dictator.
             | 
             | Well, kind of. On occasion they participate in regulatory
             | capture making them really only accountable as they care to
             | be given the circumstances.
             | 
             | If you have a market cornered on AI-powered, autonomous,
             | robotic leg-equipped chainsaws, _and_ the regulatory
             | environment is weak because you 've lobbied for the right
             | rules and the right enforcers of those rules, you could
             | very possibly just have a bad quarter if those chainsaws'
             | AI sees people as trees and starts chasing them around.
             | Maybe not even that.
             | 
             | Meta would be a good real-world example. It's just less
             | interesting to imagine.
        
         | number6 wrote:
         | Strange that economic power is still handed down the
         | generations like political was in the days of kings
        
           | aylmao wrote:
           | +1. I do think there's certain efficiency gains in
           | concentrating decision-making in companies, but nepotism and
           | hereditary power are strange characteristics to keep from
           | feudalism
        
             | ASalazarMX wrote:
             | A company is an authoritarian regime, not a democracy. Real
             | power is kept within a small circle. Since employees can
             | ascend, it might look like a meritocracy, but that is only
             | allowed if it strengthens the regime.
        
         | woah wrote:
         | This is called a cooperative, and it is completely legal.
         | However, they tend not to be very successful in the
         | marketplace, outside of a few outliers.
         | 
         | If you separate revenue and control (employees get to vote on
         | decisions, but investors get the revenue), then employees will
         | be incentivized to maintain the status quo instead making
         | decisions to make the company successful. The employees have
         | almost no incentive to make difficult decisions like cutting
         | unsuccessful lines of business etc. I would be very uneasy
         | about investing anyone's retirement savings into such an
         | organization.
         | 
         | If you keep revenue and control combined (a simple share
         | structure, where each share gets a piece of the revenue and a
         | vote, and employees get shares when they join), then you have
         | other paradoxes. To make this work, you need to prohibit
         | employees from selling their shares to investors, otherwise
         | you're back to a conventional corporation. You also need to
         | take the shares away from employees when they leave the
         | company, otherwise former employees become a de facto investor
         | class that you wanted to avoid. As an employee, I would prefer
         | to work at a company where my equity does not have these
         | restrictions placed on it.
         | 
         | You may say "but if we all just tried a little harder to
         | believe in a better world it could be possible". But it is
         | possible now. Cooperatives work easily under existing corporate
         | law, and are even incentivized in some places. They just aren't
         | very successful for the reasons above. The only widespread form
         | of cooperative is doctor's and lawyer's practices, which are
         | legally required to be organized as cooperatives through a
         | limited liability partnership structure.
         | 
         | To make cooperatives work in the broader marketplace, you'd
         | have to force employees to accept restrictions on their equity
         | or force savers to put their money into cooperatives managed by
         | employees who are not incentivized to invest it well.
        
           | Hasu wrote:
           | All of your points are premised on the idea that the only
           | purpose of a corporation is to make as much money for its
           | shareholders as possible. But that isn't true, especially in
           | the case of a cooperative.
           | 
           | Most companies make decisions based on a list of priorities:
           | they care about their shareholders/investors first, upper
           | management second (upper management is usually bribed by the
           | investors with equity, aligning their interests with the
           | shareholders, so this is maybe a distinction without a
           | difference), rank-and-file employees third, customers fourth,
           | and anyone not involved with the company last.
           | 
           | The point of a cooperative is to flip this incentive
           | structure on its head: the customers or workers are owners,
           | so they get prioritized. The purpose of the company isn't to
           | dominate the markets and become the biggest company ever,
           | it's to make a better life for the people working for and
           | patronizing the company, instead of just the people who own
           | it.
           | 
           | > As an employee, I would prefer to work at a company where
           | my equity does not have these restrictions placed on it.
           | 
           | Well obviously, if you're talking about _equity_ in a company
           | as something you can own and profit from without ongoing
           | labor, you are definitionally a capitalist and you will be
           | opposed to cooperatives.
           | 
           | > I would be very uneasy about investing anyone's retirement
           | savings into such an organization.
           | 
           | The primary purpose of a cooperative is not to make profits
           | for passive investors. This is like judging a fish on its
           | ability to climb a tree.
        
             | woah wrote:
             | > The purpose of the company isn't to dominate the markets
             | and become the biggest company ever, it's to make a better
             | life for the people working for and patronizing the
             | company, instead of just the people who own it.
             | 
             | That's perfectly fine, and also the reason why cooperatives
             | are a pretty niche thing: they don't prioritize growth.
        
               | Hasu wrote:
               | They don't prioritize growth for the same reason healthy
               | cells don't prioritize growth.
               | 
               | You need to be cancer or a public corporation to think
               | growth is the most important thing.
        
               | woah wrote:
               | There isn't any value judgement here. There are not more
               | cooperatives because they don't prioritize growth. Who
               | are you angry at?
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | This oft-repeated analogy to biological systems doesn't
               | make much sense, human individuals biologically stay
               | homeostatic with nature, but human groups have grown
               | exponentially, building civilization as you know it. If
               | we didn't prioritize growth, we'd still be hunter
               | gatherers.
        
               | Miraste wrote:
               | This is only half the answer. Cooperatives are niche in
               | the US because they don't prioritize growth, and they
               | exist in a legal and financial framework that does. If
               | conventional corporations didn't receive massive amounts
               | of investor cash and preferential government treatment to
               | stay unprofitable for years or decades while scaling, one
               | imagines coops would be more competitive.
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | They are _invest_ ors for a reason, they expect a return.
               | If a coop does not produce good returns, especially as
               | compared to standard corporations, why would one expect
               | investors to invest?
        
               | Miraste wrote:
               | Exactly. Investors will always constitute a force against
               | cooperatives; countries with successful coops (Spain,
               | Italy, the Nordics, even Canada) provide other funding
               | mechanisms to prevent private investment from dictating
               | the entire market. The United States chooses not to do
               | this. It is a _choice_ , not the natural result of having
               | a finance system.
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | The US government has a lot of funding mechanisms, the
               | economy does not rely solely on private investment. It is
               | just that the scale of venture investment dwarfs a lot of
               | even governmental investment in most other countries,
               | money made from previous ventures so of course they'd
               | deploy that capital.
        
           | BarryMilo wrote:
           | I've been part of a few (Canadian) cooperatives. The
           | incentive structure is completely different, it's akin to
           | admitting you prefer great working conditions than having a
           | chance to chance it rich. If a company is startup-sized,
           | anything else is a sucker's bet.
        
             | woah wrote:
             | If I didn't like my working conditions, I would look for a
             | different job.
        
               | psychoslave wrote:
               | Of course, but being in such a choice position is already
               | being very privileged if we take things at their global
               | level.
        
               | Herring wrote:
               | Sometimes the bad jobs are crowding out the good. Like
               | gig work crowding out traditional full-time positions
               | with benefits, as companies prefer cheaper, on-demand
               | labor. Slave labor needs to be outlawed at the society
               | level, not at the individual level "why dont you just
               | find another job".
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | > _I would look for a different job._
               | 
               | I know some experienced, socially adept, smart, etc.
               | friends who have been doing this exact thing for about 8
               | months now.
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | How is that not the same in a coop? If they don't like
               | the conditions they'd still have to leave the job and
               | find a new one.
        
               | bboygravity wrote:
               | In a coop everybody's job is to always be looking for a
               | job (for the coop)?
        
               | satvikpendem wrote:
               | Not sure what you're talking about, I was replying to a
               | refutation of the following quote by the grand parent
               | commenter:
               | 
               | > _If I didn 't like my working conditions, I would look
               | for a different job._
        
               | knowitnone wrote:
               | because all your friends are 10s
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | What's your point? That my friends aren't the literal
               | best in the world in their field of study? Of course they
               | aren't. If that was a job requirement, there would be
               | like 20 job openings world-wide.
               | 
               | What an odd comment.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | This "take it or leave it" problem seems to be exactly
               | what a cooperative seeks to solve.
        
             | spinningarrow wrote:
             | What was the incentive structure, and how was your
             | experience overall (esp. comparing to traditional companies
             | if you've worked at those)?
        
           | zelon88 wrote:
           | > then employees will be incentivized to maintain the status
           | quo instead making decisions to make the company successful.
           | 
           | Therein lies the problem.
           | 
           | Capitalists believe these two things are exclusionary to one
           | another. They believe that you cannot have an unsuccessful
           | product line, or "status quo" _and still_ be successful. They
           | want to see comfy upward trending lines on their charts and
           | graphs.
           | 
           | But nobody stopped to consider that;
           | 
           | 1) If the business is operating with positive cashflow, and,
           | 
           | 2) If the business is meeting it's commitment to consumers,
           | shareholders, and employees, and,
           | 
           | 3) If the business has no direct existential threat to it's
           | market share, then;
           | 
           | That business _is_ successful. By your own definition. Stop
           | trying to take over the world. It 's selfish, unsustainable,
           | and pedantic. Support your workers. Well. Put value back into
           | the economy. Stop being a greedy POS.
        
             | woah wrote:
             | There is no secret conspiracy stopping cooperatives from
             | working. They simply do not supply a large portion of the
             | products and services that people want, due to the fact
             | that they are by definition not set up to do so.
             | 
             | Who are you angry at? You are yelling into the wind.
        
             | panstromek wrote:
             | If all these 3 are true, then that seems to me like a
             | definition of a monopoly.
             | 
             | Specifically the condition 3 is practically never true in
             | well functioning market. If you're successful, you'll be
             | copied and you'll have competitors, so you always have to
             | be a step ahead. Maintaining the status quo is how you
             | slowly become irrelevant
        
               | t-writescode wrote:
               | Some people just like going to their favorite chain
               | restaurant, bar, corner store, etc.
               | 
               | Not everything is a fight.
        
           | psychoslave wrote:
           | >However, they tend not to be very successful in the
           | marketplace, outside of a few outliers.
           | 
           | What would you consider to be successful, and what is
           | marketplace naming here?
           | 
           | Cooperatives are going to be the main thriving organizational
           | structure when the political agenda in place favors them, and
           | the very same statement apply for resource omni-capture
           | oligopolies. Look at who have hands on the political
           | schedule, and that's all nailed.
           | 
           | Living in France, I never worked for any structure that would
           | provide any equity (not saying this doesn't exist at all).
           | But France still has a very different non-wage labour costs
           | compared to US (or common-law in general I guess), so
           | employment tradeoffs are very different.
        
             | eitally wrote:
             | There are a few food companies that are partially or
             | completely employee owned that I'd consider "very
             | successful". But this business model is not typical and
             | examples are rare.
             | 
             | https://inequality.org/article/5-workerowned-food-firms-
             | riva...
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | And most of those companies are low three-digit employee
               | counts. I mean, I like King Arthur and tend to visit
               | their store when I'm in the area, but it's only a
               | relatively significant employer by the standards of
               | Norwich, VT.
        
               | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
               | Why do folks think that is? Are there some US-specifics
               | that make them less likely?
               | 
               | For example, the Mondragon Corporation,
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation, in
               | the Basque region of Spain is pretty huge (70,000
               | employees) and I watched a short news documentary about
               | Mondragon and in general the employees there sounded
               | legions happier than corporate drones in other companies.
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | > If you keep revenue and control combined (a simple share
           | structure, where each share gets a piece of the revenue and a
           | vote, and employees get shares when they join), then you have
           | other paradoxes. To make this work, you need to prohibit
           | employees from selling their shares to investors, otherwise
           | you're back to a conventional corporation. You also need to
           | take the shares away from employees when they leave the
           | company, otherwise former employees become a de facto
           | investor class that you wanted to avoid
           | 
           | This describes most "partnerships" to a varying degree. Lots
           | of professional firms operate that way, e.g. law firms,
           | accounting firms, engineering firms, consulting
        
             | mox1 wrote:
             | Yes, a large percentage of of the consulting / services
             | business that you would know the name of are organized like
             | this. For services / consulting it makes a lot of sense.
        
           | goodpoint wrote:
           | > they tend not to be very successful in the marketplace
           | 
           | ...because other companies boycott coops.
        
         | stuaxo wrote:
         | Have a look at what Mondragon does in the Basque country for a
         | cooperative of coopertives.
        
         | ActionHank wrote:
         | CEOs aren't there to serve the rank-and-file, they're put there
         | to serve the board and investors.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | And therein lies the problem.
        
         | cess11 wrote:
         | It's called a union. If workers unite and refuse to suddenly
         | supply their labour it'll cause a lot of changes fast, and
         | sometimes the capitalists just leave and the workers can
         | appropriate the company.
         | 
         | Though it is often a good idea to start small and get a little
         | win, and then wait and recruit, and then push for another small
         | change, and repeat. That way the union establishes credibility,
         | solid membership and a reasonably sized war chest for things
         | like getting rid of a CEO, which will take more time and effort
         | than for example protective gear or longer pauses in the work.
        
         | satvikpendem wrote:
         | Considering the state of current democracies, I don't think I
         | could trust my peers to make sound financial decisions at an
         | organizational level collectively. It's different from a
         | democracy in government because I can, without much friction,
         | leave a company at any time if I feel that the company is not
         | doing well, not so with a nation-state.
         | 
         | I personally have started and run a coop, but that worked
         | because we were all friends who wanted to collectively pool our
         | resources to get new clients as a software agency, if it were a
         | larger cooperative, I would agree with the sibling commenter
         | that they generally do not work as well as top down
         | corporations.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | One of my favorite attributes about left-wing activism is that
         | the solution to everything is to overthrow the system. It's
         | like the whole "we have tech debt; we need to rewrite
         | everything". Zero threat.
        
       | alexvitkov wrote:
       | Unfortunately our CEO at a 5000 person company that heavily uses
       | Slack, still hasn't activated their Slack account, so I don't
       | have much to finetune the bot on.
        
         | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
         | I have gained respect for your CEO. Good for them.
        
           | bigfishrunning wrote:
           | Yup, no reason to sully yourself communicating with the
           | rabble
        
           | throwaway314155 wrote:
           | It would be one thing if their employees didn't have to use
           | it...
        
       | kerblang wrote:
       | Yet again HN gets weird with highly contradictory popular posts
       | trending simultaneously
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42923870 "A computer can
       | never be held accountable"
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | I'm unclear what the contradiction is? When was the last time a
         | CEO was held accountable, for any value of "accountable" that
         | doesn't involve repeatedly taking golden parachutes and failing
         | upward?
        
           | dvngnt_ wrote:
           | usa could do better but they get sentenced regularly https://
           | search.brave.com/search?q=ceo+convicted+site%3Ajusti...
        
         | wy35 wrote:
         | I mean, this is clearly an unserious post. This is more of a
         | fun tech demo than anything.
        
       | e12e wrote:
       | Ridiculous. No CEO worth replacing is on slack - this needs to be
       | trained on, and run on teams.
        
         | extr wrote:
         | The OP is clearly just a fun tech demo to show off their
         | platform, they're not seriously advocating to replace CEOs with
         | LLMs.
        
       | fellowniusmonk wrote:
       | In my past I was the technical co-founder for a successful
       | startup and eventual exit. I had a background in marketing
       | automation and analytics.
       | 
       | At different points I acted as CTO, CEO and COO and ended up at a
       | CTO but with a cutout that I ran the "renevue" team.
       | 
       | Except for glad handing VCs in the early stages the first thing
       | that should be automated away is most roles in the C-Suite.
       | 
       | You'll still need a flesh and blood figurehead for external
       | meetings as well.
       | 
       | Many software engineers seem to be extremely blind to practical
       | concerns around positioning, market fit, pricing, etc. and may
       | bring certain idealogical biases and "purities" into their
       | decision making that sabotage their success, just put yourself in
       | the hands of AI and trust it.
       | 
       | The simple fact is most C-suite teams don't perform better than
       | the macro environment they exist in, so getting "decent" AI
       | decisions in place and then energetically executing you'll beat
       | most teams, and in early stage startups.
       | 
       | If some people say we can replace the bottom 20% of devs right
       | now, we can probably safely replace the bottom 40% of c-suite
       | roles.
        
         | bastardoperator wrote:
         | Are they blind or do others get paid to do these jobs? I've
         | seen it too many times, no good deed goes unpunished.
        
       | codr7 wrote:
       | Right, except who's going to be held accountable?
        
       | jb1991 wrote:
       | Or your government. See the TV show Travelers for an example.
        
       | StarterPro wrote:
       | Unrelated, but I wonder if there is a test to see how many of the
       | commenters are bots vs actual humans
        
       | Franzi4 wrote:
       | Could we use it to replace our CTO when the sales team asks
       | feasibility questions ?
        
       | newsclues wrote:
       | Rather than CEOs, why not mid level managers?
        
       | UncleEntity wrote:
       | I think they're burying the lede here, they released a DoppleBot
       | you can train on Linus's messages from the lkml as the ultimate
       | arbitrator of coding disputes.
        
       | johnea wrote:
       | Maybe some good will come from this tech afterall...
        
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