[HN Gopher] Remote Code Execution in Marvel Rivals Game
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Remote Code Execution in Marvel Rivals Game
        
       Author : eugenekolo
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2025-02-03 18:02 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shalzuth.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shalzuth.com)
        
       | bangaladore wrote:
       | > the game runs with admin privileges for the sake of anti-cheat
       | 
       | "sake of anti-cheat" should be taken lightly here. There is a
       | reason why all the other sane anti-cheats have at least two
       | applications, the anti cheat service which often runs as admin,
       | and the game, which does not. Running the game as admin is quite
       | frankly inexcusable.
       | 
       | The service often does the network comms and communicates to a
       | kernel-mode driver and/or to the application via IPC or similar.
       | Having defined barriers of separation are good things.
       | 
       | In any case, this POC doesn't have huge implications necessarily
       | for most people, but maybe in SEA or China where LAN cafes are
       | more prevalent, it could be a larger concern.
        
         | shalzuth wrote:
         | The one implication that I (the author) should highlight for
         | the extra paranoid - this exploit extends to ISP's and cloud
         | vendors that traffic is routed through. Anywhere in the trace
         | route can MITM. It depends on how much you trust those parties.
        
           | sim7c00 wrote:
           | tried in some communities of gamedev to talk about security
           | but i gave up. i think the main sentiment is not to care at
           | all. so many games have or had trivial exploits. enabling
           | mass cheating, harasment of other players (DOS) and more
           | nefarious stuff. for people whwo think the mitm wont affect
           | them... thats a silly stance. people hack home routers on
           | massive scales. (another domain who doesnt seem to give shits
           | about security)
           | 
           | good writeup! thanks!
        
             | 999900000999 wrote:
             | Their's a really good argument for having a "gaming" os,
             | Windows, and a serious OS , Linux on the same computer.
             | 
             | If League of Legends needs super admin mode, it's no longer
             | my computer. I'm sharing it with Tencent. I can't trust
             | them ( specifically a disgruntled employee) to not install
             | key loggers and other really nasty things.
        
               | sim7c00 wrote:
               | this is also a good argument. the anti cheat is
               | impossible to implement in usermode, but you can hardly
               | trust developerd with kernel mode drivers that trace all
               | things.
               | 
               | im not sure if a gaming os would help there.
               | 
               | it would be helpful if OSes wouldnt allow things like
               | malicious drivers but this is an extremely hard problem
               | in light of people loading known vulnerable drivers and
               | exploiting those...
               | 
               | you could argue that a lot of drivers could live in ring
               | 1 or 2 rather than ring0, but that no OS implements.
               | 
               | working on an OS to try and think of solutions to this
               | types of issues, but u know... if u can wait like 40
               | years maybe it will be done (and likely it will be
               | vulnerable in different ways :(( )
        
               | DaSHacka wrote:
               | This is essentially my Windows box. I use it for gaming,
               | and RDP in from one of my other computers (all of which
               | run GNU/Linux), when I need to run a Windows program away
               | from the house.
               | 
               | I treat it as though there's a random russian dude
               | watching my every move through RDP keylogging all my
               | inputs (and for how many one-off cracked programs have
               | been installed on there over the years, it's not
               | impossible).
               | 
               | I can't imagine keeping my password manager and primary
               | accounts logged-in on the same computer I have rootkits
               | like Riot Anticheat and technical disasters like Marvel
               | Rivals installed on.
        
               | keyringlight wrote:
               | I think there's a few angles on this.
               | 
               | Firstly that a game developers main concern is getting
               | their product functional, keeping that way, and that they
               | can make money on it to make the whole endeavour
               | worthwhile. There's already a lot of game releases where
               | it comes across getting their idea working out the door
               | is a lot higher up the list than the 'details' and
               | attention to working great on the PC platform. Then that
               | gamers will come in a wide range of skill/knowledge
               | levels for their PCs, from those that treat them as
               | glorified consoles to others that know every detail of
               | their workstation.
               | 
               | Dual booting adds more admin and complexity, and in a way
               | it's admitting that the trust level in software is so low
               | your OS can't sandbox things out, that stuff you're
               | running is taking liberties or just enough effort to
               | fulfill its task, and you're going to the extent of
               | running a console in a separate partition but running it
               | is mutually exclusive with the serious OS. I'd guess a
               | lot of people who felt strong enough would just have
               | 'serious OS' be another device, most likely a phone but
               | alternatively laptop, which would seem to marginalize
               | what they use the windows install for.
        
               | prophesi wrote:
               | I have a Windows partition that I haven't booted into for
               | ages. Originally I would first try to run a game on
               | Linux, and fallback to Windows if it has problems. Some
               | live service AAA games are still impossible to run on
               | Linux due to anticheat, but it's otherwise a pretty good
               | time for Linux gaming in the era of the Steam Deck.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | I've removed the rebooting step and instead use a GPU
               | pass-through VM
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >If League of Legends needs super admin mode, it's no
               | longer my computer. I'm sharing it with Tencent. I can't
               | trust them ( specifically a disgruntled employee) to not
               | install key loggers and other really nasty things.
               | 
               | relevant: https://xkcd.com/1200/
               | 
               | kernel/root/ring0 might sound super scary, but if there's
               | any sort of code execution on linux/windows, practically
               | speaking it's already game over.
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | > Their's a really good argument for having a "gaming"
               | os, Windows, and a serious OS , Linux on the same
               | computer.
               | 
               | This is a terrible idea if you think this will keep you
               | secure. Windows provides direct access to update
               | motherboard firmware and CPU microcode/management engine.
        
               | sim7c00 wrote:
               | hah yeah ,dont run insecure os nexto secure one :D. good
               | point!
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | Linux distros can also update firmware and microcode.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | Is most malware literally going to embed itself in the
               | BIOS and install itself on Linux ?
               | 
               | Seems like an insanely difficult thing to do to target
               | like .5% of users.
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | Hot off the presses:
               | 
               | https://github.com/google/security-
               | research/security/advisor...
        
               | dfxm12 wrote:
               | Why stop at a separate OS? Why not use separate hardware
               | just for gaming as well?
        
               | sim7c00 wrote:
               | custom hardware is nice, like a ps5 or something, but
               | this is usually built up from somewhat known component. a
               | lot of hardware is not too bad, but the software has the
               | main issues. i dont see gaming companies develop custom
               | security hardened hardware quickly due to extreme costs
               | related in making very advanced and fast chips.
               | 
               | ultimately a combination would be best, hardware tailored
               | to be secure and allow secure software to be developed
               | for it, but the same can be said for phones and pc's etc
               | .
               | 
               | most modern cpus have quite a lot of hardware security
               | features which are often not ideally implemented or not
               | used. they also offer features that can allow software to
               | enhance security, bit that is also rare. for example you
               | _could_ use certain extended cpu registers to allow for
               | taint tracking etc, but this likely kills game
               | performance, and is not even done for trivial
               | applications despite being proven to mitigate entire
               | classes of vulnerabilities. (its quite complicated to
               | implement too as the hardware isnt taking into account
               | such features for such purposes)
        
               | daedrdev wrote:
               | It's the endgame of cheats. If it's not supreme over all
               | programs, you can cheat by chaining things when it isn't
               | looking or before the anitcheat starts. By running a
               | service from startup with maximal privilege, they can
               | prevent cheats at the expense of running a service from
               | startup as low at maximal privilege.
               | 
               | Arguably they could have already gotten all sensitive
               | user data without that privilege if their program was
               | hacked
        
               | hibikir wrote:
               | The data breach Disney had last year is reported to be
               | caused by downloading a malicious mod in a work computer,
               | which then fetched the Slack credentials and downloaded
               | everything available. Many a cryptocurrency wallet is
               | emptied out with similar attack vectors.
               | 
               | We might have better computer security than with Windows
               | 95, but the level of isolation we need to have a
               | semblance of security is very rare and it's very easy for
               | people to slip.
        
       | jauntywundrkind wrote:
       | For a second I thought this was the Marvel game that got briefly
       | banned along with TikTok, but that's marvel _Snap._
       | 
       | It would have been a tiny bit funny if it had been the same
       | company that was just briefly banned that was allowing a remote
       | exploit.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Exactly my confusion. This would've made the TikTok ban feel a
         | little more legitimate.
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | To be honest, I would not be surprised if netease the same kind
         | of attention as bytedance.
        
       | doctorpangloss wrote:
       | The engineering culture behind AAA video games is rotten to the
       | core with regards to security. Everyone thinks they're making
       | Doom 3 and they're really making Windows 2000 Service Pack 1.
        
         | Xunjin wrote:
         | Great commentary, today the industry is focused on delivering
         | free game with tons of cosmetics (which gives a ton of money)
         | but forgetting about performance and security.
        
           | TonyTrapp wrote:
           | Your average networked game these days is probably a
           | bazillion times more secure than one from 20 years ago. It
           | was super common that there were cheat tools to crash all
           | game clients in a match. It was super annoying, we can just
           | be glad that it was usually not used for anything more
           | nefarious.
        
             | Xunjin wrote:
             | Excellent point, how do you see today the industry,
             | security wise?
        
         | agoodusername63 wrote:
         | Is it particularly surprising though?
         | 
         | These are game developers. Not backend developers. Not web
         | guys. Not remotely trained in infosec. They make games. Not
         | security software. And for the longest time this was
         | acceptable.
         | 
         | I think for a GaaS in 2025 it's unacceptable to not have
         | security minded engineers on staff for the backend stuff. Too
         | much money is involved not to. Especially for studios very
         | familiar with shipping online games.
         | 
         | But I'm also kind of disappointed in how much we're forgetting
         | that these people are not infosec nerds. Last year there was a
         | cute fishing game made by a single dude messing around making
         | things. It got popular and a kid found an RCE bug with the
         | multiplayer. The dude got a TON of shit for the flaw, which
         | feels deeply unfair. I don't expect my mom to configure a
         | router correctly. I don't expect video game developers to
         | understand defensive network programming without training.
         | 
         | Maybe I'm just a little frustrated at the Internet largely
         | unable to understand that defensive programming is something
         | that isn't in a game devs trained skills. I would expect better
         | of Netease however
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >These are game developers. Not backend developers. Not web
           | guys. Not remotely trained in infosec. They make games. Not
           | security software.
           | 
           | Why do game developers get a pass but not "backend
           | developers" or "web guys"? Don't the latter only "make CRUD
           | apps, not security software"?
        
             | sbarre wrote:
             | I think for web or "backend for network" people, you are
             | _always_ deploying into a hostile environment (the
             | Internet) and so you really should be at least aware of
             | basic security measures. If you consider yourself a
             | professional in that field, it 's table stakes.
             | 
             | If you're a game dev, you were taught to write optimized
             | code that runs locally on a computer.
             | 
             | Not everything you do will run on the network, and
             | networking/multiplayer might not be relevant every single
             | time you ship a game. So it's less relevant (if still
             | important)
        
               | Sleaker wrote:
               | This isn't really true, game devs have had to deal with
               | client-server authenticity issues since the beginning of
               | multiplayer gaming. There's a lot of lessons learned
               | around and why there's whole sets of middleware designed
               | to alleviate/lessen these issues. For as long as
               | multiplayer games have been around this has been an
               | issue.
               | 
               | The impact ie: RCE vs just ruining the game experience
               | may be different but the concepts are all the same-
               | adversarial clients.
               | 
               | The excuses you listed aren't any different for business
               | apps.
        
               | skeeter2020 wrote:
               | There are no triple A games today that doesn't run in a
               | networked/internet environment, and your code lives on
               | the hostile user; this seems like an even bigger risk
               | than a web app.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | There is nothing special about game development that
               | justifies not knowing/caring about security. It's 2025.
               | Everyone is deploying into a hostile environment (the
               | world). Security is now a horizontal that cuts across all
               | kinds of development: frontend, backend, web, mobile, PC,
               | console. You can't just say "Oh, security is the job of a
               | Security Developer. I am just a Xyz Developer."
        
           | phoronixrly wrote:
           | Hey, I feel there's some predisposition in infosec-minded
           | people that insecure software must not exist regardless of
           | its purpose or threat model. And also that people who can't
           | write secure code must not write code...
        
             | Hackbraten wrote:
             | People who can't write secure code yet can learn how to
             | write secure code.
        
           | supermatt wrote:
           | They generally make software that runs with (at least)
           | unrestricted user level access on client devices, as opposed
           | to backend guys who have no client access, and web guys whose
           | code runs in a sandbox.
           | 
           | If anything these devs should be more cautious than the
           | others as the risk to the end user is extreme.
        
         | devmor wrote:
         | Why would there be a strong engineering culture behind AAA
         | video games at all? Game developers are underpaid, overworked
         | and constantly told they can be replaced at a moments notice.
         | 
         | I wouldn't expect anything but code that "ships" out of them,
         | and its understandable why.
        
           | pyrolistical wrote:
           | There needs to be at least 1 person to figure out why the
           | game isn't hitting the performance target. That is real
           | engineering
        
             | DrillShopper wrote:
             | With DLSS nobody bothers anymore. Just force the punters to
             | buy an overpriced video card and then poor-shame them if
             | they don't
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | In modern gaming you just make every texture max size even
             | though it only covers a tiny surface and will only fill 6
             | pixels on a large monitor.
             | 
             | Also, half of their shaders are broken on some
             | configurations. Also they used a function call wrong so
             | their game tries to render something a bunch of times
             | instead of once.
             | 
             | A huge portion of NVidia and AMD GPU drivers is literally
             | hacks to make games actually run well. Both Nvidia and AMD
             | patch game shaders at runtime to keep things from being
             | unusable, and hack around broken behavior or wrong usage of
             | APIs. It's exactly reminiscent of the situation Windows 95
             | had when all sorts of popular programs _couldn 't even save
             | interrupt flags properly because they straight up did not
             | read the manual which had many sentences and code fragments
             | demonstrating that what they wrote would not work_.
             | 
             | Also, Titanfall 1 shipped with like 30gb of uncompressed
             | audio. They did this to "reduce CPU load". In 2014.
        
               | maccard wrote:
               | Hi, I'm a game developer.
               | 
               | > in modern gaming you just make every texture max size
               | even though it only covers a tiny surface
               | 
               | This completely false. Not even hyperbole, just plain
               | false. We have budgets, we have tools. You need higher
               | res textures for things that are smaller because you can
               | get close to them. Is there waste? Sure, but no more so
               | than in any other field. My local newspaper takes 15
               | seconds to load on gigabit WiFi, and hangs on scroll.
               | Reddit can't handle more than one tab open. Slack uses
               | more ram than the game im developing sometimes. Even HN
               | still falls flat on its face with a "moderately" popular
               | link, and can't handle it if you perform too many
               | operations.
               | 
               | > A huge portion of NVidia and AMD GPU drivers is
               | literally hacks to make games actually run well.
               | 
               | This is because nvidia and AMD offer this as service but
               | without access to your codebase. The days of them being
               | required to function are long behind us.
               | 
               | > Titanfall 1 shipped with like 30gb of uncompressed
               | audio. They did this to "reduce CPU load". In 2014.
               | 
               | As I've said many times, you might disagree but it was
               | intentional. The Xbox one was an 8x1. 75GHz CPU, and some
               | of that was reserved for system use
               | 
               | All software is shit, and held together by duct tape. All
               | industries have products that we can point at and call a
               | disgrace - it's not games that are the problem.
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | > The engineering culture behind AAA video games is rotten to
         | the core with regards to security.
         | 
         | But it is way ahead with regards to efficient hardware
         | utilization!
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | And usually with an eye towards good user interface design.
           | Not some white space heavy "clean" look where everything is
           | hidden behind hamburger menus.
        
             | creaturemachine wrote:
             | I dunno, lately they're more interested in pointing you to
             | the store page for skins and loot boxes.
        
               | ykonstant wrote:
               | True, but even the most vile loot box filled triple A
               | slop game has better UI than the atrocities the OP refers
               | to. At least there you can see some decent density of
               | information and a hint of three-dimensionality, which is
               | more than you can say about the "clean UI" desert
               | landscape.
        
             | ykonstant wrote:
             | Preach. I often point towards games for examples of good
             | balance of density, as well as elements of modern-looking
             | skeuomorphism in UI.
             | 
             | Of course I get all the usual garbage non-arguments in
             | response from designers who don't want to take up a
             | challenge and actually design, and instead fall back on a
             | "tried and true" (except it is shit) fashion.
        
         | Thaxll wrote:
         | It's not more rotten that your regular backend shop. How many
         | api issues / auth problems / s3 open bucket there are out there
         | exactly?
        
           | bobnamob wrote:
           | s3 open bucket syndrome is basically cured at this point.
           | (Aside from legacy buckets, which should all be exploited by
           | now)
           | 
           | The "yes I really want to do this" confirmations you need to
           | go through when opening up a bucket these days are about 4
           | deep...
           | 
           | Authn/z issues are real though, they'll never be fixed
        
         | bilekas wrote:
         | I don't work in gaming, I know a few people who do, everyone of
         | them does it for the love of the game. Certainly not for the
         | job security or even the money. This idea that they're also to
         | handle security is too much. It's not their fault, they're
         | writing "art" not secure micro services for multi national
         | companies.
         | 
         | Publishers will pay to have 0level kernel ring on your system
         | but not for software securing their game.
         | 
         | > the game runs with admin privileges for the sake of anti-
         | cheat
         | 
         | Nobody higher than the devs thought "this might be risky?"
         | 
         | Because can assure you, the devs felt it stupid and risky.
         | 
         | Your "Everyone thinks their making doom 3". As I see this is
         | not the developer fault.
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | I've done IT support for a number of devs across multiple
           | companies and they all expect local admin and admin access to
           | everything. So no, I don't believe they feel it is risky. I
           | believe they don't get it/don't care. It's just not their
           | wheelhouse.
        
             | idiotsecant wrote:
             | No, it's because the average IT infrastructure is abysmal
             | and getting things done without admin is it's own full-time
             | job filing and following up on tickets and trying to plead
             | your case for the ten thousandth time to the exalted
             | security dieties that you just want to do your job gets
             | old.
             | 
             | Am i bitter? Nah
        
               | bongodongobob wrote:
               | Totally get it dude.
        
             | bilekas wrote:
             | This is a different case, if I don't have permission to
             | talk to the graphics card, sound card, even ram, I'm a
             | restricted engineer.
             | 
             | > I believe they don't get it/don't care.
             | 
             | You're right, anything that's not obstructive is never
             | worried about.
             | 
             | To me that says you're doing a good job giving permissions,
             | it's also your job to manage those permissions, not the
             | developers..
             | 
             | > It's just not their wheelhouse.
             | 
             | Your absolute bang on. And I can say from experience, it's
             | good you guys are there.
        
               | bongodongobob wrote:
               | Right and that's the thing, you don't need local admin
               | for that. It can be done granularly or set up a dev env
               | vm etc. It's a pain for everyone to be sure and some
               | routes are easier than others.
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | The problem in big part stems from the business culture
         | upstream. They're trying to produce a game, but what they're
         | _really_ after is _e-sports money_. They design multiplayer to
         | be about organized pro play, which brings in all the cheating
         | problems of professional sports, so they end up subjecting
         | _every player_ to e-sports-grade security like those anti-cheat
         | systems, despite 99.9% of the player base _not caring about pro
         | play in the first place_.
         | 
         | This is the worst possible combination: players are forced to
         | accept first-party invasive rootkits that are disruptive and
         | ineffective, while cheaters still cheat.
         | 
         | IMHO the only sensible solution is to separate out e-sports
         | angle from the game itself. People who want to "go pro" would
         | be free to subject themselves to anti-cheats and drinking
         | verification cans and past some point might as well buy
         | company-authorized computers to play on. Everyone else should
         | just be allowed to play casually and enjoy the game without the
         | anti-cheat nuisance (and a looming threat of false positive).
         | 
         | With main incentive for serious cheating separated out, non-pro
         | players would only have to worry about griefers. Those are a
         | problem too, but they can be dealt with by simpler and less
         | invasive measures than a kernel-level rootkit.
         | 
         | As it is, AAA multiplayer games are basically like if FIFA was
         | to micromanage Town Recreational Leagues and hold them to the
         | World Cup standard, because cheating is a Big Deal so every kid
         | needs to take regular blood tests before the match.
        
           | ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
           | Nobody wants to play multiplayer (only) games with cheaters.
           | It is that simple.
           | 
           | Esports money...? Micro transactions is the money. Publisher
           | driven esports is advertising.
        
       | S0y wrote:
       | So what part of the game code exactly is able to download a
       | random python script and run it?
        
         | sanktanglia wrote:
         | The patching process sends python byte code for hot fixes
        
       | agentultra wrote:
       | I was literally thinking about this the other day. There are a
       | ton of games using kernel modules for anti-cheat and... just load
       | and interpret data payloads. Certainly some of those payloads
       | could manipulate the funny machines inside of a game executable
       | if they're not careful about their parsing and validation.
       | 
       | Nice PoC!
       | 
       |  _Update_ : yes, most game client processes don't run in the
       | kernel. My b. I was just thinking that updates and content
       | payloads might be an interesting vector for langsec.
        
         | agentultra wrote:
         | Also, if you see content distribution networks the way we've
         | been looking into package managers as a vector distributing
         | poisoned payloads... seems fruitful.
        
         | Liquix wrote:
         | Yes. For example world of warcraft's anticheat (warden),
         | although it runs in userspace, has been exploited multiple
         | times to gain RCE/server root after receiving malicious
         | payloads from clients.
        
         | mavhc wrote:
         | Imagine if security software did that, but also ran on boot and
         | took down a million critical machines
        
       | sanktanglia wrote:
       | Funny enough this engine is based off the same one they used in
       | Diablo immortal which also has this issue
        
       | wyldfire wrote:
       | I'm surprised - isn't this game just a skin on Overwatch? So does
       | Overwatch have an RCE?
        
         | Nannooskeeska wrote:
         | No, Marvel Rivals and Overwatch are not related in any way
         | other than they're both the same genre of game.
        
           | wyldfire wrote:
           | Wow, I was so convinced that it was the case that I thought
           | you were mistaken. They look remarkably similar. But yeah,
           | just another game in that genre like you said.
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | I bought a Steam Deck with the sole purpose of having a cheap,
       | airgapped PC to run games on. Game devs just don't have the
       | incentives or discipline to be trusted with security.
       | 
       | Reminder that all three Dark Souls games allowed full RCE to any
       | users connected to the internet: https://flashpoint.io/blog/rce-
       | vulnerability-dark-souls/
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | I wish Steam offered a console format of the deck, essentially
         | the same thing, but with better specs, HDMI out and bluetooth
         | for controllers. Would be a massive hit I wager.
        
           | jamie_ca wrote:
           | They tried some years back
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer) but it
           | didn't really hit big. That said recent updates to SteamOS
           | and agreements around logo/branding use hint that we're
           | likely to see a few other options in the coming year or two
           | (alongside some 3rd-party handhelds running SteamOS).
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | This is what I do, I rarely use it in handheld mode (but I do
           | appreciate the ability to). Valve sells a dock with HDMI out
           | (along with ethernet, USB, etc), and I can confirm that it
           | works wirelessly with Xbox controllers.
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | I thought SteamOS was just some layers on top of Arch.
           | 
           | To not go full Dropbox, but I think if someone wants a Linux
           | PC to run games, it is within the realm for a home PC builder
           | to accomplish. It would otherwise be a tough market to sell,
           | "Buy this gamer PC, less great specs than you would likely
           | pick for yourself and not compatible with the most popular
           | games that have onerous anti-cheat root kits".
        
           | qskousen wrote:
           | This is something they are (probably) working towards with
           | SteamOS, being able to run it on your own hardware with deck-
           | level hardware support. See
           | https://www.pcguide.com/news/valve-could-be-thinking-
           | about-r...
        
           | oxygen_crisis wrote:
           | The deck already has bluetooth for controllers and HDMI out
           | if you get a standard USB3/HDMI dongle (or their expensive
           | dock).
           | 
           | Essentially all you're asking for them to add is better
           | specs.
           | 
           | In December their revised branding guidelines added a
           | "Powered by SteamOS" badge so presumably 3rd-party boxes with
           | various specs in set-top form factors will be coming before
           | too long:
           | 
           | > The Powered by SteamOS logo indicates that a hardware
           | device will run the SteamOS and boot into SteamOS upon
           | powering on the device. Partners / manufacturers will ship
           | hardware with a Steam image in the form provided by and/or
           | developed in close collaboration with Valve.
        
             | ThatPlayer wrote:
             | Better specs would also be interesting, because Steam's
             | current "Steam Deck Verified" does check if games run well
             | on the Steam Deck's hardware. There's another check for
             | text size on the smaller 7" screen too.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | > Game developers continue to amaze me at their lack of security
       | awareness.
       | 
       | Because game developers are SUPPOSED to be aware of these things?
       | 
       | > It's very hard for security researchers to report bugs to most
       | game dev companies. On top of that, most do not have bug bounty
       | programs
       | 
       | Yet the OP blames the GAME developers...
       | 
       | They already have harder jobs than the majority of us, picking on
       | them for not knowing skills outside of their area is just being
       | mean and OP is targeting frustration at the wrong group.
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | YES. Did you read the part where the game devs use RCE with
         | admin privileges to run patches? Any developer who does that
         | should be aware of the security risks they're taking.
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | Any developer yes, but I personally put game developers into
           | a different category, they're making games and trying to find
           | shortcuts to meet strange management requirements. They don't
           | know the security side.. I'm admitting there should be some
           | guard before code review is approved from a real security
           | engineer
           | 
           | > Any developer who does that should be aware of the security
           | risks they're taking.
           | 
           | Developer yeah, someone who's focused on recreating the game
           | probably not
        
             | munchler wrote:
             | Trying to meet strange management requirements is normal
             | for just about any professional developer. I don't
             | understand why you think game developers deserve a special
             | exemption.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | If you sell software to millions of people that runs with
         | access to sensitive data you have an obligation to do a good
         | job, sorry. If you don't like that, make it MIT licensed on an
         | open source site instead of $70 on Steam.
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | The developers don't have that obligation, the publishers do
           | though.. They are the last in the chain here.. Those gaming
           | agencies have a lot of beuracracy filtered in gaming senses.
           | 
           | I'll say this, every single game dev I've ever met, has no
           | clue how to navigate bureaucracy. I'm not saying it's a type,
           | but it's not random, they have other things to worry about.
        
       | lockemx wrote:
       | Interestingly, the game doesn't run as admin for any good reason.
       | The first thing I did was only let the launcher and game run as
       | the user with RunAsInvoker. The anticheat alone is allowed
       | RunAsAdmin. At the same time, I don't trust any anticheat. It's
       | probably worse than useless, but it is what it is. I thought
       | Microsoft would clean this up after the Crowdstrike incident for
       | all kernel-level code, but I guess there's no incentive for them
       | to only let game companies request runtime analysis / reports
       | rather than run code. As for the anti-cheat industry, they should
       | focus on patterns of user behavior to help game companies
       | moderate the players as much as neccesary.
        
         | zwily wrote:
         | I have a related question for you... my kids like Marvel
         | Rivals, but I also use Microsoft family tools to limit their
         | screen time so they don't have Admin accounts. However, the
         | Marvel Rivals anti-cheat makes me enter my password every time
         | they launch. Is there any way for me to create a shortcut or
         | something so Rivals will launch without my password?
         | 
         | I'm not a Windows guy and trying to figure this out has been
         | extremely frustrating...
        
           | voxic11 wrote:
           | You can make a on-demand scheduled task that runs Marvel
           | Rivals as admin then create a shortcut that invokes the task.
           | 
           | Full instructions https://chatgpt.com/share/67a13960-c1b4-800
           | 2-a699-7b547c759c...
        
           | sandyarmstrong wrote:
           | I just had to fix this for my kid over the weekend. https://s
           | teamcommunity.com/app/2767030/discussions/0/5962604... was
           | very helpful:
           | 
           | You can also skip the UAC prompt without editing the
           | registry, by adding the following to the game's launch
           | options in Steam:
           | 
           | cmd /min /C "set __COMPAT_LAYER=RUNASINVOKER && start ""
           | %command%"
        
         | EA-3167 wrote:
         | If anticheat worked then it would be an interesting, perhaps
         | tolerable tradeoff for some. The reality however is that games
         | are absolutely packed with cheaters, there's an international
         | industry in creating cheats for popular games, so what you get
         | is an arms race that as usual only punishes honest users. It's
         | like DRM, pirates don't seem to have much of a problem, but it
         | sure can hurt the rest of us.
         | 
         | Unfortunately both the executives who buy into these things,
         | and the average consumer, are simply too... simple, to
         | understand or appreciate that.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | I tried to get Microsoft to stop signing kernel mode anti-cheat
         | drivers with no result. Even when a vulnerable driver is found
         | the vendor is given way too much time to deploy a fix while the
         | vulnerable build is out in the wild with a valid signature. The
         | signature should be revoked as soon as an exploit is found,
         | it's an anti-cheat driver for video games not essential
         | business/government infrastructure.
        
       | zxilly wrote:
       | Looks like a typical mitm attack, which confuses me a bit, don't
       | the developers use something like tls or dtls to protect their
       | communications? The most recent game I analysed was helldivers 2,
       | which uses dtls. i would have thought that would be fairly common
       | knowledge.
        
       | plagiarist wrote:
       | I like the other rant at the bottom. But why would game
       | developers care about security when their customers don't care?
       | The customers are fine running anticheat with admin privileges
       | like in this RCE he just found.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | I personally encountered a game anti-cheat driver in the wild
         | (Anti-Cheat Expert) that caused BSODs and data loss. I later
         | discovered there were known exploits in it and the signature
         | still hadn't been revoked. I managed to get the developers of
         | the game I was playing to reconfigure it by kicking up a fuss
         | on the subreddit, at least.
        
       | foco_tubi wrote:
       | Interesting that the PS5 has been implicated - does this mean
       | that there is an opportunity to jailbreak firmware again?
        
       | tart-lemonade wrote:
       | It downloads and executes a Python script to _update the store
       | page?_ Log4j /log4shell, anyone?
       | 
       | Just build a JSON API! It's not that hard! You don't need to RCE
       | your game every time it launches just for microtransactions.
        
       | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
       | > This also opens the door up to an entrypoint on PS5.
       | 
       | Does he mean that this is potentially how one could install
       | custom firmware on their console?
       | 
       | Curious because I remember reading somewhat recently that console
       | vendors have locked their consoles down well enough so as to
       | avoid any vulnerabilities which could be exploited to install
       | custom firmware. It would be amusing if that was invalidated by
       | game dev security and I start hearing about ways to install some
       | modded firmware, which include a step of "install one of these
       | games".
       | 
       | IIRC, the web browser on 3DS systems was exploited to install
       | custom firmware rather than a game so it was rather easily
       | patched with a system update (and, indeed, it actually was
       | patched). I wonder if we'll be seeing Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft
       | start to insist on certain security standards as a result of
       | _games_ being exploited to install custom firmware on the devices
       | they sell, presuming the answer to my first question is
       | affirmative.
        
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