[HN Gopher] New York claims a small victory in 'forever war on r...
___________________________________________________________________
New York claims a small victory in 'forever war on rats'
Author : lareading
Score : 33 points
Date : 2025-02-03 14:18 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thetimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thetimes.com)
| b800h wrote:
| Do you not have wheelie-bins in the US?
| greenavocado wrote:
| New York can hardly be called "the US" culturally
| Loudergood wrote:
| Nowhere in the US can be really. It's not as diverse
| culturally as "Europe" but it's more diverse than most
| countries by a lot.
| namaria wrote:
| Yeah how American is hip hop anyway?
| busterarm wrote:
| Hip Hop has shifted as much as America has. The only big
| 2020s hip hop artist from NY is Cardi B. Then you have to
| realize she's mostly a pop act -- a majority of hip hop
| heads don't listen to female artists.
| namaria wrote:
| Yeah Cardi B is pop music.
|
| And whoever heard of Lauryn Hill, Salt-n-Peppa, Erykah
| Badu, Eve, Lil Kim, Queen Latifah, Missy Elliot?
| busterarm wrote:
| You're talking about basically 30 years ago.
|
| That's an entire previous generation. Not speaking
| disrespectfully but none of who you mentioned have
| mainstream cultural relevance in _today's hip hop_. Kim
| and Missy come closest.
|
| If your argument is going to be that New York is the
| cultural center of hip hop, who from New York is
| representing today's hip hop? Who is selling the albums?
| namaria wrote:
| My argument was that one of the most American things ever
| (hip hop) is actually rooted in NY.
|
| The rest is a response to 'hip hop heads don't listen to
| female artists' so I mentioned a bunch of heavyweights.
| This can degenerate into 'no real scotsman' so whatever.
|
| There is today a whole lot of pop artists that use hip
| hop aesthetics, but as usual the real stuff is very much
| underground.
| snovymgodym wrote:
| This just in: huge country has a pluralistic cultural
| identity
| busterarm wrote:
| Native New Yorker now living in the real America vouching for
| the accuracy of this comment.
|
| The majority of the US shops at WalMart. New York City
| doesn't even have one.
| wan23 wrote:
| In the US, yes, but in New York we generally just pile up our
| trash bags on the sidewalk on garbage day. We don't have
| alleyways between our buildings and most of the street space is
| taken up by free car storage.
| jstummbillig wrote:
| Where do you store full trash bags in between pickups?
| MisterTea wrote:
| In trash rooms, hallways or alleyways if one exists (common
| outside of Manhattan).
| soared wrote:
| Still on the sidewalk. NYC is perpetually full of trash
| bags in comparison to other major cities (or non major
| cities)
| kalaksi wrote:
| This sounds so wild. Surely it would be much more
| efficient, for space and picking up, to have containers
| for trash.
| snakeyjake wrote:
| On the street.
|
| Go to Google Maps, zoom in on New York City, then drop a
| Streetview pin randomly anywhere in the city.
|
| Chances are very, VERY, good that just by panning, not
| moving, you'll find a trash bag dumped on the sidewalk.
| throwaway7679 wrote:
| There are garbage bins in NYC. Here's one: https://www.go
| ogle.com/maps/@40.7238555,-73.9968645,3a,75y,5...
| Retric wrote:
| Yep a trash bin right next to: "trash bag dumped on the
| sidewalk"
| snakeyjake wrote:
| It's funnier if you don't explain the joke.
| Retric wrote:
| That's assuming it was funny in the first place.
| namaria wrote:
| NY serves a rat banquet on the regular and pikachu-faces at
| the amount of rats that attend.
| cogman10 wrote:
| How often is garbage day?
|
| Also a bit wild to me that there's not like a communal
| dumpster.
|
| Some population dense cities also do underground dumpsters,
| has that been floated?
| the_third_wave wrote:
| I suspect the NYC underground is already so crowded with
| pipes and cables and under-sidewalk storage areas and other
| things there won't be much space for such dumpsters there.
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| I feel like people would sue the city if they had to walk
| more than a minute to dump out their trash in NYC. I was
| there for a few months when the trash bins were being
| tested out, and seeing people complain about it was...
| interesting?
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Were the bins in the street and not on the sidewalk for
| this test? These complaint were likely _really_ about
| taking away a parking spot.
|
| People would rather walk through a maze of garbage bags
| than make things slightly less convenient while driving.
| We are way too car-brained.
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| Yup, those were the exact complaints actually! A bit wild
| to my stupid brain, but it is what it is.
| saalweachter wrote:
| The volume gets pretty intimidating; for Manhattan, you're
| talking around 140 cubic yards of garbage per block per
| week [0.1 yard / person, 1400 people / block], which would
| be ~4 of the 40-yard dumpsters (the 8 x 8 x 22' ones you'll
| see outside construction sites, roll-on/off trucks) per
| block.
|
| That they're able to collect that much garbage anyway means
| it's not an unsolvable problem, but going from using that
| much space once a week, in the form of piles of garbage on
| garbage day [with the remainder of the time it being
| scattered in smaller piles in buildings' garbage rooms], to
| 24/7, means you're losing like 12 parking spots per block,
| or like half a building lot per block, if you're storing
| them off the street.
| Retric wrote:
| Noting says you need to wait a full week between
| collecting garbage.
|
| That's the thing about changing how things work, you can
| change multiple things at the same time.
| nilamo wrote:
| Oh no, less parking, however will we recover?
| tetromino_ wrote:
| > How often is garbage day?
|
| For general household trash, if you are eligible for DSNY
| collection, it's two times per week except for some
| holidays. Recycling and compost are once a week. If you
| contract to a private garbage collection company, it's
| whatever you specify in the contract.
|
| > Also a bit wild to me that there's not like a communal
| dumpster.
|
| Large apartment buildings of course do have trash chutes
| leading to a dumpster of some sort. But inside or outside
| smaller buildings, there is no space.
|
| > Some population dense cities also do underground
| dumpsters, has that been floated?
|
| There is an underground garbage handling system on
| Roosevelt Island. The idea of underground dumpsters in
| other parts of the city been floated, but it's impossible
| because there is too much density of existing underground
| infrastructure and _much of this infrastructure is not
| mapped_ , making it impossible to plan an excavation
| project of such a scale. See e.g.
| https://dsny.cityofnewyork.us/wp-
| content/uploads/reports/fut... (pdf). (There are also
| interesting engineering questions of how underground
| dumpsters would work after heavy snowfall.)
| cogman10 wrote:
| Interesting. Reading the report it looks like the biggest
| issue any sort of communal trash system faces is we
| simply don't have that in the US. NY would need a lot of
| trash trucks which are only being manufactured outside
| the US. They'd be one of the only cities doing this as
| well.
|
| It looks like underground would be an option, but the big
| deal breaker is potentially needing more frequent pickup
| and specialized trucks.
| 1-more wrote:
| > Large apartment buildings of course do have trash
| chutes leading to a dumpster of some sort
|
| The bags therein get put out on the street in a big pile,
| however. Or they did before the new bin situation.
| anotherhue wrote:
| > most of the street space is taken up by free car storage.
|
| 'Subsidised' I think is the more correct term here.
| cowsandmilk wrote:
| most of it doesn't cost any money. I believe "free" is an
| accurate description.
| anotherhue wrote:
| The land is some of the most valuable and costliest to
| maintain in the world. The absence of a parking meter
| just means someone else is footing the bill.
| SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
| As sibling implied basically every other major city in the US
| uses bins or dumpsters. Except NYC.
| yostrovs wrote:
| In New York City, the trash workers union prevents dumpsters
| from being used, which would kill jobs. Remember: trash is not
| a problem to deal with. It's a solution to unemployment.
| macintux wrote:
| Where would the dumpsters go? Serious question, the
| impression I get is that there is no room in many places in
| the city.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| They had plenty of room for on street restaurant expansions
| in many parts of the city.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Parking spots that currently house individuals's cars could
| be used for dumpsters instead.
| bombcar wrote:
| Room would have to be found.
|
| At this point, even massive dumpsters on the sidewalk would
| be an improvement.
| yostrovs wrote:
| Dumpsters would go where trash goes now. Instead of trash
| sitting on the street, the same trash will sit inside
| dumpsters.
| anovikov wrote:
| I thought the problem with it was the lack of space.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| There is plenty of space, but most of it is taken up by
| individuals' cars.
| bliteben wrote:
| I moved back to the south after living out west for 20 years
| and it is insane the amount of trash dropped by trash workers
| while they are dumping bins. Part of it is cultural in that
| trash is literally piled at the street in bins of varying
| condition vs out west where you know if it doesn't fit in
| your 90 gal bin it ain't getting picked up by the robot arm.
| andrewla wrote:
| Is there a source on this? This is the second of two
| conspiracy theories I've heard, the other being that Reagan
| is somehow responsible for getting rid of the communal
| dumpsters that are claimed to have once existed.
| martimarkov wrote:
| It absolutely is a problem to be dealt with. I understand
| what you are implying but it actually is a problem
| petee wrote:
| That is at odds with the fact the article says they are using
| bins and picking them up 6 days a week, I don't see any union
| complaint here?
| orwin wrote:
| I've heard that it was that it was because it would remove
| parking space.
|
| But if what you are saying is true, that's what you get for
| not allowing multi-concern unions. Our union branch that take
| care of trash collection workers is also responsible for
| municipal cleaning workers, as well as dump workers: making
| the job worse for cleaning and dump workers is just not
| something the union would push for.
| BtM909 wrote:
| I once saw a rat trying to open a wheelie-bin and when it
| looked up to me, I could see it think: shit, I'm busted; they
| know we are smart.
| cwmma wrote:
| New York was weirdly built without alleys so there is a
| legitimate issue of where do you put the bins when it's not
| trash day that almost every other city doesn't have
| cafard wrote:
| Washington, DC, has had "supercans" for about forty years. But
| it still has rats, though I suppose many fewer than it might.
| asdff wrote:
| Even that doesn't solve it because the truck is too powerful
| for the bin. Over time the lid breaks apart from the grabbing
| and flicking motion. Plus some trash inevitably slips proper
| placement. And animals are smart.
|
| People are trying to sterilize rats or give them birth control
| now vs kill them. If you kill a rat, you still have the
| environment that could support a rat and one is liable to more
| in from the populations nearby you didn't kill. If you
| sterilize the rat and release it however, it keeps other new
| rats from moving in potentially in the maintenance of its
| territory and it could be doing this job for you for years
| while you try and sterilize the rest of the area. And
| eventually these rats will die, and if the great bulk has been
| sterilized in some way then you may actually eliminate or push
| back sterile rat populations out of certain areas.
| grubbs wrote:
| Living in Baltimore was a mess with rats until the city issued
| the rat-proof trash bins. Now I rarely ever see them.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| deploy remotely controlled small rat-like robots, where the
| public can sign up like a game to pilot those bots and kill rats
| to score points and make a small amount of profit.
| dyauspitr wrote:
| The public would kill people.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| only if the bots use poison. impact-based methods at worst
| would harm the feet of pedestrians, but the public would need
| to create accounts, receive payment,etc.. so tracking them
| down and arresting them would be trivial.
|
| Imagine kids on their switches hunting for rats using robots!
| olelele wrote:
| I have a feeling the robots would lose...
| Loudergood wrote:
| This inevitably ends in someone breeding more rats.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| if it costs $0.50 to raise one rat, then the fee for killing
| one can be $0.05. storing them somewhere, feeding them,etc..
| surely costs some amount. if people are just throwing stuff
| rats can eat, then nothing is new, that's what's happening
| today.
| staplung wrote:
| At $0.05 per rat, you'd have to kill 330 rats per hour to
| make minimum wage (in NYC it's $16.50/hr).
| wackget wrote:
| The year is 2025. New York takes the bold, unprecedented step of
| storing their waste in receptacles which _cannot_ be easily
| chewed through by pests. Will this wild experiment yield results?
| Scientists remain skeptical.
| PedroBatista wrote:
| While the design of NYC - plus economic pressures - never
| accounted for domestic waste storage ( in a global and
| universal way for all buildings/tenants ). The truth is no one
| ( with actual power ) did anything meaningful to stop this.
|
| It became some type of "culture" or "it always has been this
| way" type of situation. With a city budget in the billions and
| a VERY active and "enforce/fine" happy public sector there is
| no excuse of "people don't just follow basic sanitation rules",
| it's in the culture and I hope this finally starts to go away
| as there is no reason to be this way.
| newsclues wrote:
| I guess there are no homeless or unemployed people in NYC who
| could be mobilized to work on the problem.
|
| Humans struggle in urban environments to resolve problems
| because "someone else should".
| petee wrote:
| > someone else should
|
| Isn't that kinda what you're suggesting here? Most piles of
| trash aren't caused by homeless, its residents, so why should
| they need to be responsible? Residents could just buy their
| own cans as its their own problem
| tantalor wrote:
| When will the woke nonsense stop. /s
| pkulak wrote:
| Considering that, according to polling, most residents would
| rather live with rats than lose the parking spot per block
| required for proper bins, I'd say this is a huge accomplishment
| in the fight against rats... and car brain.
| petee wrote:
| I guess I'm confused about the article now because Brooklyn has
| trash cans everywhere, and I even recall seeing them 2-3 years
| ago. If I pick random street views every street has lidded bins
| xethos wrote:
| You're likely underestimating what rats can and will chew
| through to get a bite to eat.
| petee wrote:
| No, I'm very familiar with rats, but I can say for a fact
| that my friend's heavy duty plastic wheeled bins (the
| common ones) have been on the street 24/7 in NY and haven't
| been chewed into in the past 4 years. Probably how smooth
| that plastic is.
|
| Fwiw the pilot program isn't using metal cans either, and
| apparently is working.
|
| Edit: fun side note, I've seen a squirrel eat a hole
| through a 2" oak door to escape a basement, so Im not
| discounting a motivated rat :)
| asdff wrote:
| Rats live where there are bins too.
| snapcaster wrote:
| This is great, i'm always so turned off by how disgusting NYC is
| and struggle to get past it to enjoy the other parts
| BtM909 wrote:
| https://archive.ph/GlQNI
| buyucu wrote:
| Here in Istanbul we don't have a rat problem thanks to the huge
| numbers of cats in the city.
| itisit wrote:
| I guess there aren't any cats in the Ak Saray.
| Balgair wrote:
| Bit warmer there though?
| Two4 wrote:
| That's generally better for rats, is it not? Year-round
| availability of food, with the downside of more endemic
| disease.
| oniony wrote:
| I guess you instead have a cat problem.
| adonovan wrote:
| We have over 200,000 stray cats in Brooklyn alone--as I learned
| recently when one cute but particularly insistent kitten tried
| to make its home in ours--yet somehow they are collectively
| terrible at hunting rats.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-02-03 23:01 UTC)