[HN Gopher] How will Australia's under-16 social media ban work?...
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       How will Australia's under-16 social media ban work? We asked the
       law's enforcer
        
       Author : segasaturn
       Score  : 23 points
       Date   : 2025-01-31 21:06 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | In short: they have no idea.
       | 
       | They had no idea when it was passed, and this article confirms
       | the same because "there's been promising research you do it by
       | <thing>".
        
       | chris_wot wrote:
       | They won't. They can't. It's baked into the legislation!
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | From top AU banning official:                    all [age
       | verification methods] have privacy implications. There was big
       | concern with providing government ID. But there are digital
       | identity providers...
       | 
       | This is the point where Gov officials shift from talking about
       | privacy concerns to pretending.
       | 
       | In this case, she's predictably offloading responsibility to a
       | 3rd party provider. I will guess the official is minimally aware
       | that leaks are nearly inevitable (partially due to lax laws) and
       | all of that ID data will be leaked eventually. Probably by a 3rd
       | party to the 3rd party.
       | 
       | Why deceive the reporter and readers on privacy? Because
       | addressing privacy is hard. It takes time, effort, _integrity_
       | and thoughtfulness.
       | 
       | Because every Gov is loaded with depts that exploit privacy
       | failings to their own advantage.
       | 
       | Because elections are funded by lobbyists that use our data
       | against us.
       | 
       | Add those up and there is so much pushback against respecting
       | privacy - you could launch a spacecraft with it.
        
         | Dylan16807 wrote:
         | I guess it depends on what the ID data is? If it's just a
         | couple pictures and maybe not even your name then there's not
         | much impact in a leak.
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > I guess it depends on what the ID data is?
           | 
           | At the minimimum it will be                   Everything on a
           | Gov ID         All info demanded during the original
           | collection process + demands that get added v2, v3 ...
           | All possible metadata         Data from other sources, added
           | downstream to make it more valuable to govs/corps
           | 
           | The ages of leak victims:                   16 and 17 yo
           | Under 16 because many will try         Everyone else
        
         | x0x0 wrote:
         | There is a separate article
         | https://www.npr.org/2024/11/28/g-s1-36142/australia-social-m...
         | linked in the post. It says:
         | 
         | > _amendments [...] bolster privacy protections. Platforms
         | would not be allowed to compel users to provide government-
         | issued identity documents including passports or driver 's
         | licenses, nor could they demand digital identification through
         | a government system._
         | 
         | So I guess facial recognition it is. Or my personal guess, a
         | government data feed on birth dates.
         | 
         | Any other solution is too stupid to discuss -- I would be
         | stunned if it's possible to use facial recognition to
         | differentiate a 15 y/o from a 16 y/o in anything approaching a
         | reliable way.
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | > _Platforms would not be allowed to compel users to provide
           | government-issued identity documents including passports or
           | driver 's licenses, nor could they demand digital
           | identification through a government system._
           | 
           | This leaves a lot of room for bad acting. The data collector
           | need not compel. They can have 3 methods available but have 2
           | be a hot mess of unreliability.
           | 
           | FacRec has unreliability baked in - increasingly so, the
           | further from white ones skin is.
        
         | segasaturn wrote:
         | I agree with everything you're saying about how hard the
         | privacy issue is, but would also like to add that the social
         | media companies are incentivized to act like they have no idea
         | how to implement a solution, _because they want teens using
         | their apps_. The Facebook Files make it abundantly clear that
         | social companies see teen users are their most valuable asset,
         | since the rest of the culture tends to follow where teens go.
         | When the social companies, who are collectively worth tens of
         | trillions of dollars, say they don 't know how to implement the
         | law without convoluted, privacy-destroying, digital government
         | IDs I just don't buy it.
        
         | notTooFarGone wrote:
         | What I don't get is why not use the fucking ID card?
         | 
         | The government can build a service to verify ones identity and
         | age and social media apps don't have to save IDs.
         | 
         | The whole privacy shit is just weaseling out of responsibility.
        
       | genidoi wrote:
       | The privacy concerns and "ID everyone" are the boring, standard
       | dystopian parts of this, perfectly in line with the government-
       | by-nannying that Canberra types enjoy.
       | 
       | The better question is what counts as social media? Is HN social
       | media that under 16yo Australian's need to be kept away from?
        
         | hsuduebc2 wrote:
         | I'm not sure that there is a proven link between hacker news
         | use and elevated probability of depression and anxiety in
         | children and adolescents.
         | 
         | So I guess it's aimed at sites that are supposed to cause these
         | problems?
        
       | kennysoona wrote:
       | It can't work. Teens will just jump to mastodon instances. I can
       | even see it being the case where running an instance become like
       | being able to make fake ids or sell some weed or something, one
       | person will do it and be cool have friends because of that.
       | Parents won't know about it and it won't raise any flags in logs
       | if done well.
       | 
       | Not to mention just using a VPN or something.
        
         | 4ad wrote:
         | The system will work just fine. You seem to be under the
         | impression that the purpose of the system is to prevent
         | teenagers from accessing some websites. That is not the purpose
         | of the system, that's just the pretext for implementing it.
        
           | kennysoona wrote:
           | You're saying the system is to get everyone to submit their
           | ID so their social media can be tracked? That too will be
           | mitigated by increased adoption of decentralized services.
        
       | teaearlgraycold wrote:
       | They should just ban social media for everyone and see what
       | happens.
        
         | asdefghyk wrote:
         | Yes if social media companies can not implement for under 16,
         | just ban them in complete country. If they do not do it, put
         | owners in jail.
        
       | mianos wrote:
       | As an Australian parent of a 14-year-old, I find social media to
       | be a significant hassle. Yet, I know delivery drivers who are far
       | more technologically proficient than many government leaders. I
       | had expected that, even if the public face was somewhat just a
       | pretty face and a good talker, there would be a knowledgeable
       | team working behind the scenes. However, this ban has convinced
       | me that there isn't a single informed voice involved in the
       | process.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Homomorphic encryption and trusted third parties. It's what the
       | Australian Privacy Commission, and the CSIRO (government funded
       | (commonwealth) scientific industrial research organisation) said
       | would probably work.
        
       | jakub_g wrote:
       | > 84% of 8- to 12-year-olds are already on social media. And
       | interestingly, we asked, "Were your parents or any adults aware
       | that you were setting up these social media accounts early?" And
       | 80% of them said yes. And in 90% of cases, it was parents that
       | helped them set up their accounts
       | 
       | What's preventing the parents to do the account creation
       | verification for the kids, and then kids just taking over the
       | account? (Unless there's constant re-verification daily, which no
       | apps do)
       | 
       | The only thing is that the ban gives parents some way to say "no"
       | but given enough nagging...
       | 
       | Or, you know, they can find someone a few years elder, just like
       | when buying booze and cigarettes.
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-31 23:00 UTC)