[HN Gopher] Real-time, river sections downstream of sewage disch...
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       Real-time, river sections downstream of sewage discharges from
       storm overflows
        
       Author : markx2
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2025-01-28 14:35 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sewagemap.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sewagemap.co.uk)
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | Whoa. What is wrong with UK sewage treatment systems? Oh, I see.
       | They're having flooding from heavy rains: https://check-for-
       | flooding.service.gov.uk/?v=map-live&lyr=mv...
       | 
       | They need to build more capacity to handle this.
        
         | ajb wrote:
         | We just built a PS5B sewage tunnel bigger than the Elizabeth
         | line[1] across London, it's hard to see why there should still
         | be discharges into the Thames.
         | 
         | The other problem is that much of our system was built before
         | it was recognised that it's better to have separate sewage and
         | surface water systems. (Oddly enough, the word sewage
         | originally referred to surface water drainage, not excrement).
         | 
         | [1] The Elizabeth line is our newest and widest metro line. The
         | new tunnel at 7m diameter is larger, although technically since
         | it only goes in one direction it's only bigger than half the
         | Elizabeth line - it being the general consensus that sewage
         | does not need to make a return journey.
        
           | tialaramex wrote:
           | To be fair, the Thames Tideway is storage, whereas the
           | Elizabeth Line is transit.
           | 
           | That is, if you're stuck in a tunnel on an Elizabeth Line
           | train for an hour that's a fault, everybody wants to fix that
           | and then you'll get to Reading or, Heathrow (airport) or
           | Woolwich or whatever.
           | 
           | But a turd in the Thames Tideway is _supposed_ to be sat
           | there, it 's temporary storage, the idea is if twice as much
           | rainfall as normal happens over a 24 hour period, we don't
           | need twice as much sewage treatment capacity, we just need to
           | store those turds for a while so that on average it works out
           | OK.
           | 
           | Which still doesn't answer your original objection - Thames
           | Water are shit, blame the Tories for once again taking a
           | monopoly at point of use service which costs money and
           | "improving" it by giving private investors a way to make
           | money and then saying Oops when of course they take the money
           | but leave the problem they were supposed to be solving
           | unfixed.
           | 
           | In the _very_ big picture the original problem, as for our
           | rail infrastructure, is that England is very, very old.
           | London has a single Combined (ie rain water and human
           | effluent mix) sewer system because it was built many years
           | before anybody invented separated sanitary and rain water
           | sewers. A retro-fit upgrade, which some US cities have done,
           | is incredibly expensive, nobody wants to pay for that even if
           | it could be attempted. I don 't anybody has even tried to
           | estimate for London. Tens of Billions of pounds? Hundreds?
        
           | mattlondon wrote:
           | FWIW where I live in London the issue is that the local
           | drains going along residential etc streets are overwhelmed.
           | So there are various overflow locations etc where when the
           | sewers are full to bursting and overflowing back up into
           | people's toilets, they don't and instead overflow into local
           | water courses. We're miles away from the super sewer, so
           | they'd need to improve the capacity from our house all the
           | way for that to work.
           | 
           | We have a particular issue with just surface water (not
           | sewage luckily!) where I live. Usual finger pointing game
           | between the council and Thames water and us, but the word
           | from the guy from the council is that the surface water
           | drains are just too small for modern weather systems, so when
           | we get a _very_ heavy downfall we have water being forced
           | _up_ and out of the drains where our guttering empties into,
           | leading to about 2 or 3 inches of water around the entire
           | house before it drains away into lower land in the garden.
           | 
           | I don't fully believe him that the pipes are too small (it
           | rained in the past too!) - I suspect it is just partially
           | silted-up/blocked/collapsed somewhere nearby after over 100
           | years of neglect, but of course Thames water have no money
           | nor impetus to fix it. We've had non-return valves fitted in
           | the pipes on our property (at a fairly large expense since we
           | had to dig down) to try and abate our house getting flooded
           | when it rains. So far so good....
        
             | zimpenfish wrote:
             | > Thames water have no money nor impetus to fix it.
             | 
             | No impetus, sure, but they have had money - they just paid
             | it out in dividends to shareholders instead of using it to
             | invest and fix problems.
        
               | hermitcrab wrote:
               | Indeed. The privatisation of the English water companies
               | has been a literal shit show. The price to the consumer
               | (e.g. me) goes up every year, but there is ever more shit
               | in our rivers and shit on our beaches. Why? Because my
               | fees go to paying dividends (often to foreign companies
               | and governments) and massive bonuses, while the system
               | falls apart. Last I heard, Thames Water was PS14B in
               | debt. The government is apparently unable or unwilling to
               | do anything about it. The water company is a monopoly, so
               | I have no choice in the mater, beyond stopping using
               | water. This is how rapacious capitalism works.
        
               | mattlondon wrote:
               | Well yeah, why fix the drains when they can run a
               | business etc.
               | 
               | I think it is fairly ludicrous to allow something like
               | this to be privatised. It just doesn't make sense to me
               | but then I am not PM.
               | 
               | I am kinda hoping they'll let it go bankrupt and then
               | nationalise it for pennies-on-the-pound (a "haircut" for
               | the investors).
        
           | FranOntanaya wrote:
           | To be fair to our ancestors, their sewage composition was
           | much simpler than the exotic chemical cocktail we send down
           | the drain nowadays.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Depends on what Industry was dumping into sewers at the
             | time; there tends to be less of that these days.
        
         | nsteel wrote:
         | Are we having flooding from heavy rain? I think the weather has
         | been uninteresting lately. Happy to talk about it, of course!
         | 
         | This sewage dumping into our rivers is "normal". But to be
         | clear, it is absolutely disgusting and the result of corporate
         | greed and corruption.
        
       | greggsy wrote:
       | Holy moly I wasn't expecting that map to be so busy. What a time
       | to be alive that you can create such a details map with real time
       | public data.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | As a kayaker, kudos to whoever is behind this.
        
       | peterpost2 wrote:
       | Neat site, any plans for adding support for Scotland?
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-31 23:00 UTC)