[HN Gopher] No Man's Sky's update introduces billions of new sta...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       No Man's Sky's update introduces billions of new stars, planets,
       and more
        
       Author : hochmartinez
       Score  : 122 points
       Date   : 2025-01-29 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.playstation.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.playstation.com)
        
       | recursive wrote:
       | The number of stars and planets has been overplayed from the
       | start. Sure, there's a quintillion planets, but after you've seen
       | a hundred, you pretty much got the gist of the scope of what's
       | possible. Everything starts to look samey.
       | 
       | Much more significantly, it seems the new planets use new biomes
       | and terrain generators. If they gave all undiscovered planets a
       | chance to use these, even if they cut the number of planets by
       | 99%, it would still be a big improvement. The number is just so
       | big, it's irrelevant.
        
       | talldayo wrote:
       | No Mans Sky is a pretty fun game nowadays. If you're less
       | interested in the _Eve Online_ ideals of corporate bureaucracy in
       | space and you just want to explore some neat looking empty
       | planets, it 's the premier game of it's kind. I pre-ordered it
       | after watching the infamous IGN trailer[0] and was disappointed
       | like everyone else, but today I'm very happy with where the game
       | is and can easily recommend it at the $30 price point where it
       | goes on sale.
       | 
       | Game is availible natively for Windows and MacOS, supports Linux
       | and supports multiplayer across consoles and PC clients.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M
        
         | Ultimatt wrote:
         | Also supports VR multiplayer
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | Is there a Switch update yet?
        
         | joshuaheard wrote:
         | Or PC?
        
         | jrflowers wrote:
         | I haven't checked but it looks like this has rolled out across
         | all platforms, not just PlayStation.
         | 
         | https://www.nomanssky.com/worlds-part-ii-update/
        
       | ziddoap wrote:
       | No Man's Sky is the poster child for turning a shitty launch into
       | a success. You can really feel the passion of the staff at Hello
       | Games in the current version of the game. It reminds me of the
       | quote, which I'm about to butcher, that is along the lines of
       | "People don't remember the problem, they remember how you dealt
       | with the problem".
       | 
       | If you haven't seen it, "The Engoodening of No Man's Sky" is a
       | good review of the story. It's 5 years old now, and the
       | engoodening hasn't stopped.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ
        
         | jrootabega wrote:
         | This is more a reflection of the state of online gaming
         | discourse and youtube rambling clickbait these days. People
         | believe what the culture tells them cool people believe, and
         | perpetuate it to others. No Man's Sky didn't have multiplayer
         | at launch. Now it does. That's pretty much the only
         | indisputable improvement to the game. They've certainly managed
         | to improve the NARRATIVE about the game, though.
         | 
         | EDIT: I also want to call out one particularly user-hostile
         | thing they have done: pump up the visual quality and complexity
         | so high that the game performs very poorly on the console
         | generation _on which it was released_ : the PS4/Xbox One
         | generation. This is true even on performance mode. So if you
         | bought the game at release, you will now suffer degraded
         | performance if you are still using your original hardware. You
         | don't hear too much about this because when it's mentioned the
         | person usually gets console-shamed, e.g. "get with the times,
         | time to upgrade you cheapskate!" It's not only low framerates
         | and ambient pop-in; it's also extremely bad pop-in of hazardous
         | plants and structures. And you often can't land your ship on
         | the ground until the terrain has fully generated. This can take
         | a minute or two sometimes. Or you could try to go harvest from
         | one of your resource collectors and have to wait something like
         | 10 seconds for it to finally appear in front of you. And once
         | it did, the chances of it bugging out and having no resources
         | inside of it are way too high.
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | > _That 's pretty much the only indisputable improvement to
           | the game._
           | 
           | I'm not sure how you can possibly say that with a straight
           | face.
        
             | jrootabega wrote:
             | Almost everything else is just a half-baked shallow
             | mechanic tacked on to the existing ones. Quantity and
             | popularity != quality.
        
               | dingnuts wrote:
               | just because you found those mechanics to be not to your
               | liking doesn't make them invalid. A whole lot of shallow
               | gameplay can easily add up to a game that is fun, because
               | it is full of small activities that are each fun for a
               | little while. If that wasn't true, Mario Party would be
               | no fun
               | 
               | "shallow" is also /definitely/ your opinion here. it's
               | okay to not like things, but that doesn't make them
               | objectively bad. it's just not to your taste.
               | 
               | I've played NMS on and off since launch and it's a
               | totally different game now in MY humble opinion
        
               | jrootabega wrote:
               | Shallow is the observation of many, many people who
               | usually just get ignored, or worse in today's vote-
               | centered social media platforms, suppressed, for going
               | against the popular narrative.
               | 
               | If it's true that not liking something doesn't make it
               | bad, then liking something also doesn't make it good.
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | >If it's true that not liking something doesn't make it
               | bad, then liking something also doesn't make it good.
               | 
               | They didn't say it was good _or_ that they liked it, they
               | said it 's a totally different game now from launch.
        
           | drakythe wrote:
           | -- Removed leading/condescending question. My apologies to
           | the poster. --
           | 
           | If the game isn't for you that's fine. Not every game is for
           | every person. But the game has absolutely been improved, in
           | numerous ways, since launch.
        
             | jrootabega wrote:
             | Yes, I have played a lot of it. And have since 2016.
        
               | ygjb wrote:
               | The poster asked if you played the game, and acknowledged
               | that you don't have to like it - that's not a fallacy,
               | it's a clarifying question.
               | 
               | The game has had clearly observable and measurable
               | improvements, in terms of features, like multi-player,
               | but also in terms of overall content, game and storyline
               | components, and substantial new and revised game
               | mechanics.
               | 
               | It is abundantly clear from player feedback that your
               | opinion is in the minority.
               | 
               | Steam reviews - Recent Reviews: Very Positive (1,837) All
               | Reviews: Very Positive (256,838)
        
               | remram wrote:
               | The implication is clear even if formulated as a
               | question. Let's not pretend here.
               | 
               | Asking people if they've played the game (or "read the
               | article") is also directly against the HN guidelines.
        
               | jrootabega wrote:
               | It's fine to be in the minority; doesn't make you wrong.
               | Steam reviews are far from a good indicator of actual
               | quality.
        
               | teddyh wrote:
               | The game certainly has had changes and additions. Whether
               | those constitute _improvements_ is a matter of opinion.
        
               | mrmuagi wrote:
               | Besides the multiplayer update, what have you found fun
               | about the game to invest all those hours?
               | 
               | Personally think the gameplay loop is shallow, modding
               | helped me find more depth.
        
               | jrootabega wrote:
               | I wouldn't say that it was a good investment, or even too
               | much of an investment at all. A lot of it was
               | procrastination, escapism, self-sabotage, etc. There were
               | times when I could overlay a sort of canon to my
               | character's activities that was pleasurable to think
               | about. I spent a lot of time wanting the game to be good,
               | but some glitch or design decision would always get in
               | the way.
               | 
               | But I'd say one of the best experiences I had in the game
               | was becoming self-reliant at the start of a new save.
               | Struggling not to die evolves into having enough
               | resources to survive indefinitely by manual resource
               | harvesting, which evolves into setting up crude crafting
               | pipelines, which then evolves into advanced harvesting
               | and manufacturing, enabling easy interstellar travel and
               | self-sufficient freighter bases. But that can only happen
               | once per save. And it's only really satisfying on
               | survival or permadeath. The other modes are essentially
               | just a no-risk sandbox.
        
               | drakythe wrote:
               | My apologies. I'll edit out the leading question. It just
               | seems outrageous to me to say "the game hasn't been
               | improved except it added multiplayer" when multiple
               | pieces of the engine have been re-written. New game play
               | loops added, bugs squashed, updated content, and entirely
               | new ways of generating planets, flora, and fauna have
               | been added.
               | 
               | I feel it is akin to saying FPS games haven't improved
               | since DOOM (95), or simulation games haven't improved
               | since Deus Ex. Are both excellent examples of their
               | genre? Yes, absolutely. Are they still some of the most
               | fun you can have in a game? Yes. Holy crap yes. But to
               | ignore improvements made in the last 3 decades of game
               | development and storytelling just because another game
               | hasn't improved on every single aspect aspect of them is
               | a wild perspective.
               | 
               | Denying the improvements Hello Games has made over the
               | last 9 years feels as if it can only come from a
               | perspective of "I don't like it, therefore it is bad".
               | Which to be clear, again, it is fine if you don't like a
               | game. I don't like WoW, haven't since before Cataclysm. I
               | don't like Diablo III in the same way I liked D2 (and as
               | a result haven't even played D4). But those are personal
               | preferences to me, and both games contain numerous
               | improvements over their predecessors. Just not my bag.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Despite really disliking the game, but also still playing
               | it enough to apparently notice "many, many glitches" in
               | recent updates, it's pretty obvious that they either have
               | some bone to pick with No Man's Sky or just enjoy being a
               | bit contrarian. Or maybe they're having a bad day. In any
               | case, their comments don't seem to be in good faith.
               | 
               | I never understood why people will keep playing games
               | they don't like. It doesn't make any sense to me. If I
               | don't like a game, I play something else.
        
               | jrootabega wrote:
               | I should not have spent the time that I did with the
               | game. I regret a lot of it. At this point I think I'm
               | fully done with it, although I might pick it back up on
               | PC at some point in order to work on mods (which I think
               | might address some of the big gaps in the game).
        
               | jrootabega wrote:
               | They've certainly done a good number of things, and it
               | probably wasn't easy to do, but my observation is just
               | that almost none of those things really contribute to the
               | heart of the game, work together in a meaningful way, or
               | got executed without a lot of rough edges and bugs which
               | never have been/never will be addressed.
               | 
               | I believe it happened this way because when they were in
               | danger of self-destructing after the terrible launch,
               | they knew they could no longer afford to risk continuing
               | to try for the vision they had and sold. They had to
               | pivot to a adding shallow crowd-pleasing fluff, and the
               | more the better. And it was a good business decision! Now
               | people go gaga over the fact that you can summon a
               | multiplayer social hub from your menu and do fortnite
               | emotes with strangers.
               | 
               | Let me try to flip this and compliment NMS for what I
               | think it is. It's a good light-hearted space-themed VR
               | chat with some gamelike elements.
               | 
               | -----------------------
               | 
               | Also, no worries about the earlier question. I wasn't
               | offended or upset, but I think it was just a good
               | opportunity to point out that the culture about
               | discussing this game now has that kind of thing baked
               | into it.
        
               | drakythe wrote:
               | Regarding the question: I appreciate your point. I was
               | less concerned about offense and more about playing into
               | the rule breaking and poor discussion etiquette you
               | brought up. Its too easy to treat everyone like dingbats
               | online and I don't like playing into that type of
               | conversation. So, my apology was intended less as a
               | "sorry for offending you" and more of a "sorry for not
               | trying for a real conversation"
        
           | mr_toad wrote:
           | > That's pretty much the only indisputable improvement to the
           | game.
           | 
           | On launch it would crash every ten minutes. Last time I
           | played you could go weeks without a glitch.
           | 
           | Some people think that they warrant forgiveness.
           | 
           | https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2024/07/19/succor
        
             | jrootabega wrote:
             | If that's really true in a wide scope, yeah, I guess that
             | would have to be an improvement. But I've observed the
             | opposite - didn't used to get too many crashes or glitches
             | back in the launch days, but my recent experiences are full
             | of a few crashes and many, many glitches.
        
         | mattmanser wrote:
         | I think that's an oft repeated over statement of reality.
         | 
         | I've enjoyed a good 60+ hours in it, it's good. But not great.
         | I didn't pay for it, not sure I'd have been as happy would I
         | have paid for it.
         | 
         | It's still very shallow. As a programmer you can see all the
         | really basic algos underlying all the generation.
         | 
         | There are like 10 planet types, with a couple of extra wacky
         | ones. All the stations are virtually identical inside. There
         | are like 8 points of identical interest. And bizarrely they're
         | everywhere. There are 3 alien races. You land on a planet and
         | within seconds spaceships are over flying you. You enter a new
         | system and 10 seconds later a fleet of "random" carriers will
         | turn up within your sightline.
         | 
         | You arrived at a new planet and the creatures are all exactly
         | the same as you've seen before, just more legs, or 4 wings
         | instead of two.
         | 
         | The thing the really bugs me are the sentinels. I get the in
         | game explanation, but it's boring that every planet has them.
         | And the few that don't are weird ones.
         | 
         | Everything is different and yet, apart from a very few minor
         | things, it's all the same.
         | 
         | And the randomness gets grating. Want a cool ship? Have fun
         | trying to grind that out. Want a cool gun? Ditto. You have to
         | resort to going to particular coords supplied by the internet,
         | not in game play.
         | 
         | For me, never before has space felt so small. Elite dangerous
         | suffers from similar shallowness problems, but at least it felt
         | epic.
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | > _over statement of reality._
           | 
           | You don't have to enjoy the game, that's totally fine. But my
           | comment is pretty reality-based.
           | 
           | The game completely bombed on launch and was dragged through
           | the mud (mostly deservedly) in every review. Now has very
           | positive reviews on Steam, people still talk about it, and
           | people still buy it a decade later. It's sold enough copies
           | to support the staff at Hello Games for that time.
           | 
           | If that isn't turning a shitty launch into a success, I have
           | no idea what is.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I feel same way. Played on Game Pass, not sure I would have
           | valued it if I paid for it. It is very grating that you see
           | same set piece, be it pirates or ruins again and again. I
           | have seen this one before. Oh and to get best output I should
           | just save scum...
           | 
           | And then randomness leads to issues like finding very nice
           | looking end game planet. To make your own base. And even
           | there the option to place it so that certain things
           | refresh.... So game world is not even consistent...
        
         | remram wrote:
         | People keep saying that. I ended up biting the bullet after the
         | latest "game changing" update.
         | 
         | It's barely a game at all. It's still a walking simulator. The
         | environment is great, and there is some variety. But there is
         | no objective or opposition, not even a story (a little robot
         | tells you to do stuff). It's a sandbox, an engine one could
         | build a game in (and they might someday?)
         | 
         | They added some construction stuff, so the game will say "go
         | and build a house" and you do that. Or "go build a blueprint
         | machine" and now you have more blueprints. But what is any of
         | it for? You can just sit in your cockpit.
         | 
         | It all seems so pointless. Like they have seen other survival
         | games and copied some mechanics over without understanding what
         | makes a survival game. It is a really puzzling experience, I
         | can't understand what they were thinking.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | If you think it's bad _now_ , imagine how bad it was for
           | those of us that pre-ordered it. It was a dadgum mess back
           | then.
           | 
           | Most people are warming up to this game because they're
           | delivering on the original game concept and still going the
           | extra mile. _No Man 's Sky_ was criticized at launch because
           | the gameplay was nothing like the trailer had suggested, and
           | the updates since launch have really and truly fixed that
           | complaint.
           | 
           | No, there isn't EVA in space or serious FPS combat or even
           | well tuned space dogfights. But none of that was really part
           | of the original promise, and looking at the utterly
           | _derelict_ state of games that try to thread all those
           | needles (cough cough, _Star Citizen_ ), I'm glad _No Man 's
           | Sky_ went it's own way.
        
             | Kye wrote:
             | You can walk out on to the outside of freighters if you
             | install the right module. I forget which one, but I got a
             | nice picture from the outside.
             | 
             | https://bsky.app/profile/kyefox.com/post/3lgvtgt7zas2q
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | > _It 's still a walking simulator. _
           | 
           | I don't know how many different ways to say it. We all enjoy
           | different types of games! You obviously aren't a fan of
           | sandbox games, lots of people aren't either. Or maybe it's
           | just this sandbox game. That's fine too.
           | 
           | But it is pretty objectively a great example of taking an
           | absolutely abysmal launch and turning it into something that
           | a decent amount of people (doesn't mean everyone!) still
           | enjoy and talk favorably about. It still sells copies. It
           | still keeps the lights on at Hello Games.
           | 
           | I cannot think of a single other game that had such an awful
           | launch that has, 10 years later, enjoyed mostly positive
           | reviews. Cyberpunk might be the closest.
        
             | Tarsul wrote:
             | I think the craziest turnaround story was Final Fantasy
             | XIV, which was so bad at release that the following
             | shitstorms meant that everyone expected it would go the way
             | most MMOs go (soon forgotten). But not with Square-Enix
             | (who had a money maker with their previous MMO Final
             | Fantasy 11) who commited to revamping the whole game which
             | took basically 3 years but in the end it became a really
             | good game with a lot of happy players. (I have not played
             | it myself so would like to listen to what players
             | themselves say!)
        
           | csallen wrote:
           | This was my impression, too. I've been reading years of hype,
           | so I bought the game a few months ago, and I was unimpressed.
           | But the fact that it's kind of an objective-less sandbox
           | wasn't what got me.
           | 
           | I've played plenty of open world games and enjoyed them. In
           | fact, even in games like Morrowind or Starfield or Grand
           | Theft Auto or the like, which have big worlds _and_ specific
           | objectives, I 've always found myself ignoring the quests and
           | preferring to explore on my own terms.
           | 
           | I remember hopping around in Morrowind as a kid, trying to
           | become as powerful as possible, and seeking out baddies to
           | best. Then in Grand Theft Auto I'd go on epic crime sprees to
           | see how long I could elude the authorities. And in Starfield
           | I built an incredible network of trading posts that spanned
           | the galaxy to see how much I could enrich myself.
           | 
           | What made these games fun is that, despite not following any
           | missions or objectives, I was able to do impressive and
           | interesting things and have fun. Perhaps that's possible in
           | No Man's Sky, but in my first couple hours of playing, it
           | didn't seem like it. It seemed liked I'd be going around
           | doing boring and uninteresting things, and that it wouldn't
           | be fun.
           | 
           | So it's not that it was a sandbox that bothered me, but that
           | it was a sandbox devoid of fun.
        
           | jmyeet wrote:
           | It's like describing a bucket of random Lego pieces "not a
           | toy".
           | 
           | It's a game. It just might not be the game for you. Some
           | people buy a Lego set, follow the instructions and make
           | whatever the set is and that's it. That's fine. Other people
           | will build out ideas with whatever pieces they have. Yet
           | other people will buy specific pieces to build out some Lego
           | vision they have, some of which are truly incredible.
           | 
           | It's also like Minecraft. Are you just playing survival mode?
           | Or are you playing creatively to build out some vision of a
           | city or a building or even a computer?
           | 
           | NMS is really self-directed play. The campaign is really just
           | a tutorial. Are you going to go out and find and max out the
           | best ships? Build an interesting base? Find a particular
           | world to build your base on that has an aesthetic you want?
           | That's up to you.
           | 
           | I've put hundreds of hours into NMS although not for a few
           | years. I first got into it after the Next update IIRC, which
           | was a _massive_ improvement at the time.
           | 
           | What I'd like to see with one of these updates is way more
           | attention on base building as I think that area is kinda
           | weak. Flattening ground is awkward. Base components don't
           | snap to wood/stone/metal components for some reason. They
           | could do so much more with this.
        
             | Kye wrote:
             | That's the same thing I wanted out of it. Give me Minecraft
             | on pretty planets. None of the environmental mods for
             | Minecraft come close to any random NMS planet.
        
           | scoofy wrote:
           | I've never played it, so I really can't speak to the though,
           | but my obvious comparison is Minecraft.
           | 
           | I really think the deep lore of Minecraft does a lot of work.
           | When you find a new and interesting random place to explore,
           | it usually ties in with your view of the place you are in,
           | and eventually you find your way to an ending of sorts.
           | 
           | Another similar game from my youth that was the same was Wing
           | Commander: Privateer. It was a sandbox, where a game suddenly
           | appears after you've been exploring for months, but it's not
           | much more than some cut scenes within the sandbox.
           | 
           | I have no qualms with a sandbox game, but I'd prefer it were
           | generally tied into a narrative, either in a lore narrative
           | or with a direct story.
        
           | xiande04 wrote:
           | The genre is called "sandbox" or "simulation". See Minecraft,
           | Garry's Mod, The Sims, etc. Not all genres are for everyone.
        
           | Rooster61 wrote:
           | > But there is no objective or opposition, not even a story
           | (a little robot tells you to do stuff). It's a sandbox, an
           | engine one could build a game in (and they might someday?)
           | 
           | I've found a very different experience. There seem to be
           | several main story threads to follow, as well as the addition
           | of a few interesting sidequests (I'm in the middle of the one
           | about hacking and reverse engineering one of the sentinels).
           | And that's not even counting the expeditions they come up
           | with from time to time. I particularly enjoyed working
           | through the one that had the Normandy from Mass Effect as the
           | end prize.
        
           | FumblingBear wrote:
           | All of the other replies to you seem to give examples of
           | other sandbox games that are successful / fun and suggest
           | that maybe you just don't like the genre, but as an avid fan
           | of sandbox games, and many of the other titles given by other
           | posters, I still agree with you.
           | 
           | No Man's Sky feels devoid of any personality or interesting
           | content in a particularly unique way. No amount of updates
           | will ever fix for me what feels like a fundamental gameplay
           | loop issue.
           | 
           | All of the layers of systems they've added with each new
           | update still just feel __bad__. I'm glad so many have found a
           | way to enjoy the game, but I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
           | when none of them seem to address the issue of "collect
           | arbitrary resources to build gear to collect other arbitrary
           | resources ad nauseum" in a way that I just find fundamentally
           | unsatisfying.
           | 
           | I still understand that reductive description can apply to
           | many of the other games I actually enjoy (i.e. Minecraft,
           | etc.) but that's what's so strange to me about NMS--by all
           | means, I __should__ like the game. But I still think it's a
           | miserable experience devoid of any real meaning. Even if the
           | point is to find your own meaning in the systems it provides,
           | I can't quite put my finger on it, but it just feels so much
           | worse than any of the others.
           | 
           | Maybe someone else can better articulate why it feels so bad,
           | but to me, despite all of the work they've put on the game,
           | it still feels so devoid of meaning.
        
           | 1shooner wrote:
           | I found it to be the grind half of a game, the chores you do
           | to make the fun part more fun. But there is no fun part. The
           | creative part is all prefabricated, and the exploration is
           | very low-dimensional variation on templates that quickly
           | blend together.
        
       | zoogeny wrote:
       | No Man's Sky is a bit of a litmus test for me these days.
       | 
       | If you still hold a grudge against these guys after everything
       | they've done, the numerous free updates, the commitment to high
       | quality output, etc. then I will have a hard time believing you
       | have any perspective. The disastrous launch was _9 years ago_ and
       | yet here we are still talking about substantial free updates.
       | 
       | It is totally fair to say the game isn't for you. But the team at
       | Hello Games has blown past making up for their rookie mistake and
       | well into the position of a shining example of how any game
       | company should conduct themselves.
       | 
       | If you still harbor some bitter feelings about that launch, maybe
       | it is time to let it go.
        
         | zen928 wrote:
         | This would be a stronger point for me if the main developer had
         | already apologized for promising things they couldn't deliver
         | on as main tenants for bringing players to the game, but I can
         | see looking online that this isn't the case even as of 2025.
         | Rather than engage the community continually dismissing
         | intentful lies as 'drama around launch', I'd rather spend my
         | time and energy on supporting platforms that value honesty and
         | transparency.
         | 
         | But, I don't dismiss it as a fun videogame. I don't think
         | cyberpunk 2077 is a bad game still either, but the reframing by
         | these communities of legitimate problems as petty grudges turns
         | me away from wanting to support them entirely. I don't value
         | that type of conduct from a game company.
        
         | micromodel wrote:
         | Haha, I'll bite.
         | 
         | I don't _hate_ NMS or HG. And it doesn 't upset me that people
         | are enjoying it. However, what bothers me is that people have
         | been talking about it for 5+ years as if it had been fixed up
         | to be at least as good a game as was originally promised. And
         | that's just not true. This gets missed in all the conversations
         | about this game.
         | 
         | Like, originally someone offered to sell you a fully self-
         | sufficient farm on multiple acres of land. You buy it, and what
         | you actually get is a CSA box of vegetables at your doorstep.
         | Vegetables are cool, but that's not what you bought. Over time,
         | the quality and variety of the vegetables went up. You got
         | access to the farm. You saw it didn't actually have any grazing
         | animals or compost management or energy generation, but, you
         | know, they were building a greenhouse. After a few years they
         | started building a composting toilet! Well, ok, just a regular
         | outhouse, not a composting toilet, that was too complicated.
         | You still don't own the farm. It still isn't close to self
         | sufficient. But they're doing some neat things, they have
         | chickens now, and you're entitled to as many vegetables as you
         | can eat. That's all fine, but you were in the market for a
         | built-out farm.
         | 
         | That's what it feels like. Many of the promised features will
         | likely never exist. (And not unreasonably - they'd be massive
         | undertakings.) I've gone back to the game twice to check it out
         | after huge updates and saw:
         | 
         | - They added features like vehicles that I never wanted
         | 
         | - Most of the new features were extremely limited in scope and
         | felt half-baked, like character customization
         | 
         | - The ugliest and most irritating/boring parts of the original
         | game weren't being improved
         | 
         | Now, all that said, this is Worlds 2 and I hadn't even heard
         | about Worlds 1. My information is several years out of date.
         | Since I already own it on PS4, I'm willing to take another
         | look! Some of this stuff sounds really cool! But if they
         | haven't resolved any of the failures in the core gameplay
         | mechanics, I don't know if it's ever going to be a great game.
         | 
         | I saw the "Engoodening" video when it came out and while I get
         | it, there's _a lot_ of praise due to a team that will spend 5
         | years, let alone 9, making big mechanical improvements to games
         | for free... it 's not like it's unprecedented. Paradox
         | Interactive has been doing that for decades, and they've often
         | done it better (although they've had their own huge missteps,
         | they're largely debatable, and the delta between
         | promise::delivery has never been near the scale of NMS) (and
         | admittedly the free updates are usually only about half of the
         | content,the rest being paid DLC). And further, every time I get
         | suckered into checking again, NMS boots up and just feels like
         | a cheap, poorly thought out toy again.
         | 
         | So yeah maybe I'm someone who "holds a grudge for 9 years" in
         | your eyes, but I feel like I'm actually just the only
         | reasonable person in the room. I think being wary of NMS
         | updates is far more rational and honest than telling people
         | it's better than it was ever promised to be, when it's just
         | clearly not. People who enjoy it now should say they enjoy what
         | it is, not that it has surpassed expectations, because
         | expectations were originally set impossibly high.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | An additional point is that the behavior of the (CEO? Lead
         | Dev?) around launch was downright shit, and that was never
         | addressed. Direct lies, even after launch. Silence for months.
         | No mention ever of the missing features.
        
           | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
           | > However, what bothers me is that people have been talking
           | about it for 5+ years as if it had been fixed up to be at
           | least as good a game as was originally promised. And that's
           | just not true.
           | 
           | What did they promise that they did not deliver?
        
           | barnabee wrote:
           | > as if it had been fixed up to be at least as good a game as
           | was originally promised
           | 
           | I pre-ordered NMS because I was excited by the concept[0], I
           | wasn't really aware of the "broken promises" until everyone
           | started to make a fuss, and I never felt the game I received
           | didn't provide the experience that I'd expected. Needless to
           | say I played it a lot in those first weeks and enjoyed it a
           | lot.
           | 
           | I've dipped back in since and while the updates are awesome,
           | I've never played it as much as those first weeks. I am
           | hopiong to find the time to give it a proper play through in
           | VR, at some point, though.
           | 
           | [0] and perhaps heavly influenced by 65daysofstatic doing the
           | soundtrack
        
         | torlok wrote:
         | Something tells me you bought the game at a discount years
         | after release.
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | I bought it at launch and I'm satisfied. They fucked it up,
           | then they fixed their fuckup for free. Sure, we can all
           | complain and whine that they released a bad game, and they
           | did, but they apologized and then worked hard to fix the
           | problem. I think humans need to have more understanding for
           | things like this, especially or something as objectively not-
           | important as a video game. If this were the THERAC-25 I would
           | obviously have a much different opinion, but it's
           | entertainment so there's no sense in holding a grudge against
           | them.
        
           | zoogeny wrote:
           | That is an incorrect assumption. In fact, I bought it for
           | full price at launch.
        
         | debacle wrote:
         | No grudge, but as I understand it the game loop is still too
         | "make your own fun." Has that part changed yet?
        
           | easythrees wrote:
           | Yes and no. Some new things are quite fun like expeditions or
           | derelict freighters, but there's no "story" per se beyond the
           | base one.
        
           | zoogeny wrote:
           | It isn't for everyone, that is for sure. You can find a lot
           | of things to criticize about the game, as you can will all
           | games. Not everyone likes Factorio, Elden Ring, God of War,
           | Stardew Valley, Rimworld etc. even if they are massive
           | successes within their own communities.
           | 
           | I'm not defending the game or trying to make a case for it.
           | I'm suggesting that if you can't look past your 9 year old
           | memory of a botched launch and compare it to the subsequent
           | near-decade of grind this team has put into their dream - you
           | might be lacking perspective.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | A grudge in general is fine enough to me, you don't have to
         | start being fine with everything ever done just because it
         | eventually stopped being that way, but weighing that so high as
         | to not consider anything else about the game/developer at this
         | point is where it's taken into the realm of "really?" for me.
        
         | segasaturn wrote:
         | My first time playing NMS was around 7 years after launch when
         | it was added to Game Pass Ultimate. It's a _fine_ game, but the
         | reliance on procedural generation for planets made everything
         | feel... stale, and same-y. It 's ironic, the game has billions
         | of unique worlds, but none of them have anything interesting
         | going on on them because they were made by an algorithm and not
         | a person. Starfield had the same problems (remember
         | Starfield?). This is also how most people feel about AI-
         | generated content.
        
           | Stevvo wrote:
           | A counter-point on procedural generation; Elite Dangerous did
           | the same, but it worked. e.g. Watching a ringed planet
           | eclipse a pulsar was awe inspiring. It had countless
           | incredible combinations of procedurally generated stars &
           | planets you could discover.
        
         | RedNifre wrote:
         | Okay, I'll bite.
         | 
         | My experience with No Man's Sky was this:
         | 
         | - I started playing the campaign (instead of the sandbox mode)
         | and was off to a great start
         | 
         | - I noticed that you slowly gain additional inventory slots for
         | your character, but that you can just buy a large ship with
         | many inventory slots instead, so I did some trading and bought
         | a huge ship
         | 
         | - Inventory management: I put the stuff I don't need on me in
         | the ship's cargo space. Especially the "space traveler's
         | passport" or whatever it was called, since you only need that
         | during quests/campaign progressions
         | 
         | - I had my first run in with pirates and died
         | 
         | - Ah, so when you die, you lose all ship cargo, but keep your
         | player inventory. Good to know. Now, where's my "space
         | traveler's passport", that I need to continue the campaign? I
         | bricked my save?
         | 
         | - I went to the forum where everybody laughed and called me an
         | idiot. OF COURSE you don't put your quest items in the ship!
         | 
         | Note that the game only had auto-save, no manual save states,
         | so I lost everything for the stupid reason that the game
         | removes all quest items from your ship on death and does not
         | tell you that beforehand. This was one of the worst experiences
         | I had in a game/community, ever.
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | That's super unfortunate, especially the community part.
           | 
           | > _Note that the game only had auto-save, no manual save
           | states_
           | 
           | Not that it fixes anything, but I am really curious when this
           | was? At least as far back as Nov 2016 there has been manual
           | saves via save points. And I'm pretty sure beacons have been
           | in since pre-release.
           | 
           | This definitely speaks to a UI failure (as well as the quest
           | item stuff). The UI has been completely overhauled since.
           | But, I certainly do not blame you for having your opinion
           | soured and not wanting to try again.
        
         | suraci wrote:
         | I'm very grateful to the team after all these hard work and
         | their sincerity, can't forget the surprise when i saw all the
         | changes they made after years, but it's just, hard to go back
         | to play it, makes me feel bad sometimes
        
         | mzhaase wrote:
         | I disagree.
         | 
         | I am not bitter, but Sean Murray after launch was sitting in
         | interviews, claiming that the game had multiplayer (and a lot
         | of other stuff), knowing fully well that those were lies.
         | 
         | On top of many, many lies that happened before launch. These
         | are not "rookie mistakes". This is a person that is clearly
         | fine with lying to players in order to hype up the game. He
         | should never be trusted again.
         | 
         | Yes, it's exemplary that they fixed the game, and added all
         | those features, but Sean Murray remains an untrustworthy
         | individual. I would never hire, do business with, or believe
         | him. I will stay away from anything this guy does in the
         | future.
        
           | zoogeny wrote:
           | I'm not going to try to gaslight you since your memories are
           | your own. But consider your memory of 9 years ago in the
           | light it occurred. After huge hype, the entire gaming world
           | turned Hello Games and Sean Murray into a meme. Every video
           | was clipped and cut to make him look like a mustache twirling
           | villain that was lying to trick gamers into buying his shit
           | shovel-ware game. We have this vision of a huckster game
           | developer whose entire grift is to hype and then abandon
           | games and Sean became the poster child for this. This was
           | made much worse by Sony strongly pushing No Man's Sky as an
           | indie success story adding even more fuel to the hype.
           | 
           | But lets consider the next 9 years and ask: does the behavior
           | of Sean match that caricature? If he was indeed the lying
           | manipulative hype man that reddit memes made him out to be,
           | how would we expect him to act? Wouldn't he take the money
           | and run? 5 years after the launch, the engoodening video from
           | Internet Archivist was released. Penny Arcade also has that
           | famous cartoon from a few years ago. His reputation is mostly
           | laundered now. Why do they keep releasing free updates? Why
           | is he not shovelings out a bunch more over-hyped crap? Do you
           | think this is the longest 9 year con job in the history of
           | games?
           | 
           | That is the lack of perspective I am talking about. Sean
           | oversold the game and got called out for it. He was put in
           | the public stocks and people threw rotten vegetables at him.
           | Then he and the rest of the team spent 9 years quietly
           | grinding away to prove they believed in the game and believed
           | in their vision.
           | 
           | You remember some videos cut to make him look evil 9 years
           | ago. I'm talking about 9 years of him showing who he and his
           | team really are.
        
         | root_axis wrote:
         | My problem with the NMS debacle was that they lied egregiously
         | when building hype about the game's features and just continued
         | to lie and evade when it all came crashing down. I played the
         | game a year or two ago, overall it wasn't bad, a middling
         | sandbox crafting game, but there are way more games than I have
         | time to play, so I'd prefer to patron those with a more honest
         | approach.
        
         | troad wrote:
         | This is a false dichotomy, plus you're implying that anyone who
         | disagrees must bear a grudge, which is not at all the case.
         | Games that promise the things NMS promises are games for me.
         | NMS just doesn't deliver.
         | 
         | Years of free updates have turned a barren tech demo into a
         | fairly middling game, without solving the key problem: there
         | are ten squillion planets, but no sense of discovery. The same
         | three races, who have already populated every planet before you
         | get there, with the same space station, and the same few
         | outpost buildings. No cities. No history. Nothing to explore
         | that you haven't seen in the first 10 minutes. It's a dead
         | galaxy.
         | 
         | Then there's the lack of attention to gameplay systems. The
         | last time I tried it, I quickly figured out that I could turn
         | element X into 10 element Ys, into 3 element Xes. And I could
         | do this with just about any element in the game. And thank God
         | for that, because everything is gated behind collecting far too
         | many of those elements.
         | 
         | NMS is not a good game, and the same gaming community that was
         | hyperbolic about its failure nine years ago is now hyperbolic
         | about its comeback, because 'content creators' need narratives
         | to peddle, and a redemption ark makes for a great narrative.
         | But there is no narrative here. 'Bad game remains fairly bad'
         | isn't going to make any YouTube videos go viral.
         | 
         | Finally, I don't understand the 9 year point at all. Effort is
         | something you commend in children; among adults, it's results
         | that matter. I honestly think that if the studio spent those 9
         | years making a new game, applying the lessons learnt from NMS,
         | they may have actually made something worth playing. Nine years
         | is a serious chunk of a human lifespan, far too long to spend
         | on a sunk cost fallacy.
        
       | claudiulodro wrote:
       | It is wild how much content the team has continued to add years
       | and years after the launch and without even making any of it paid
       | DLC. The commitment is super impressive, and I applaud them for
       | it, but I am curious how the economics of it work. Is there a
       | wave of people that buy the game when these huge updates are
       | released? How is it possible to keep building this long for a
       | game that is a one time purchase?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | New purchasers, subscription products like Game Pass...
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man%27s_Sky#Sales
         | 
         | > After the game was added to the Xbox Game Pass service in
         | June 2020, Hello Games reported a month later that No Man's Sky
         | had seen more than one million new players.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Depending on how they do it, and how many people they need
         | working on it, it might only need to keep a relatively small
         | trickle of new sales going.
         | 
         | It also now marks it as a "great value" so people are more
         | likely to pick it up even if they don't end up playing.
         | 
         | Depending on pricing, you can even just sell to people
         | upgrading or changing consoles (this is one area that really
         | helps Stardew Valley, albeit with a low cost).
         | 
         | After all, even if you've sold millions of copies, there's way
         | more people who have NOT bought it.
        
         | juancn wrote:
         | Besides all the revenue from things like Game Pass or PS+, I
         | think the long game is building a game engine for procedurally
         | generated games.
         | 
         | They're working on a fantasy title too
         | (https://lightnofire.com/) which uses the same engine to build
         | a whole planet, but Earth scale.
         | 
         | Improvements in the engine for one, translate to the other.
        
           | saturn8601 wrote:
           | Man, its too much effort to explore this actual Earth and see
           | as much as possible. I can't even fathom the energy and
           | commitment needed to explore a virtual Earth like planet
           | however awesome it sounds. How do you guys stay committed to
           | something like this?
        
             | ok_dad wrote:
             | I tend to play games with high commitment like these in a
             | binge for a few weeks or a month, playing it for maybe
             | hours a day (a night actually because of the kiddos) until
             | I've basically done everything fun the game has to offer,
             | then I stop. Sometimes I play again a few years later in a
             | similar way, then stop again. Recent games I've played like
             | this include Rust, Project Zomboid, and Timberborn.
        
             | jimcsharp wrote:
             | Seeing as much of a virtual planet as possible costs $60
             | and it uses the same energy that isn't being used because
             | the other thing costs thousands of dollars.
        
         | ViktorRay wrote:
         | The game has actually consistently been on Steam's yearly top
         | seller list for many years.
         | 
         | It's surprising to see its continued popularity and
         | development. In a good way of course!
        
       | buran77 wrote:
       | > With Worlds Part II, we added billions of new star systems and
       | trillions of new planets to the universe
       | 
       | I played the game at launch for a few days and coincidentally
       | just last week again. So assume basic knowledge of the gameplay.
       | Can someone explain how _trillions_ of planets in the game (I
       | mean the number specifically) changes the experience in game?
       | 
       | I get improving the level of variety on a planet and between
       | planets can improve the gameplay. But trillions of anything makes
       | me think most of the content will never be touched by any human.
       | Am I missing something?
        
         | shikon7 wrote:
         | As I understand it, they add a new set of planets with the new
         | features, and keeping the old planets untouched.
         | 
         | The increased variety is not because trillions of planets are
         | added, but because the new planets will have more varierty than
         | the old ones.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | What they really mean is there is more variety when you land on
         | different planets, they added more variables to the procedural
         | generation. And I gotta say it _did_ improve over time, they
         | have become more varied and interesting, but still with that
         | "procedural" feel.
        
         | variaga wrote:
         | Unequal distribution, basically. While most planets will never
         | be observed by a human, it turns out players congregate in
         | certain parts of the galaxy, particularly near the galactic
         | center. (The game starts you at a random location near the edge
         | and there's literally a 'reach the galactic center' quest, so
         | most players end up near the center eventually.)
         | 
         | So yes, there are trillions of stars, but there's only so many
         | of them within $RADIUS of the center. In practice every planet
         | 'near' (for some definition of 'near') the center has already
         | been discovered and the 'good' planets are likely to already
         | have bases. There are also spots that get their locations
         | published in the forums or advertised in-game (good drops, cool
         | bases, things like that) that also end up 'locally' crowded.
         | 
         | I found there were basically two experiences in NMS - "the
         | outer rim" which was, frankly, lonely - you almost never
         | encounter any signs that other players even exist and "the
         | core" where it feels like everything has already been done -
         | sure it's new to you, but you're never the first. Finding a
         | middle zone where you can see evidence of other players, but
         | there's still stuff to discover was rare in my experience.
        
       | CashWasabi wrote:
       | This game has the biggest comeback story of any game in gaming
       | history. I'm really looking forward to their next title and how
       | much of "new" tech they will be showing in it. As far as I
       | understand it will be the same engine as No Man's Sky. But there
       | might be even more content and also this time it seems to be only
       | one big planet?
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | While we're talking space games, did Star Citizen ever get
       | properly released? I crowdfunded it 10 years ago and am still
       | waiting for delivery or access to play. Emailed them a few times
       | in the interim and never got any response.
        
         | aprilnya wrote:
         | It's been out in Early Access for a bit... weird that as a
         | backer you wouldn't have access to it
        
           | rkagerer wrote:
           | Thanks for the answer. Was there an email that went out or
           | something? If I recall I didn't back on Kickstarter, but
           | directly with the company. (Also is it ever going to leave
           | Early Access? Are they asking for more money?)
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | The game has a 60% discount on Steam right now [1], but not on
       | GoG [2]. Is the Steam version DRM-benign? e.g. Is it similar to
       | Kerbal Space Program where you could just copy the folder out to
       | another location (or a new PC) and play it without Steam having
       | to be installed?
       | 
       | [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/275850/No_Mans_Sky/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.gog.com/en/game/no_mans_sky
        
         | lukan wrote:
         | Steam games you cannot just copy and play. GoG is like this.
         | 
         | (with steam you can sort of export it, but then need another
         | steam client to install it)
        
           | rkagerer wrote:
           | What you said is not the case for all Steam games. KSP is
           | one, several more are listed here:
           | 
           | https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-
           | free_g...
        
       | jader201 wrote:
       | NMS is a technical marvel, and at first, the game is quite fun.
       | 
       | But for me, it just falls flat after a while. The planets just
       | feel functionally the same, just with a different "skin" (which
       | is cool, just doesn't add to the fun).
       | 
       | I've gone back to it 3 or 4 times, and may/may not explore it
       | again after this update. But it's always the same: it feels
       | cool/new for a few hours, then I realize it's still very
       | repetitive.
       | 
       | And I hold no ill will about the launch -- I don't really care,
       | and I think the continued efforts and free updates are very
       | admirable.
       | 
       | But it comes down to the gameplay, and at the end of the day,
       | there's not enough depth to keep me playing (e.g. compared to
       | something like Factorio, where I can play this for months and it
       | never gets old).
        
         | jrootabega wrote:
         | It's not only as shallow and boring as you describe, but also
         | thoroughly unpolished and buggy.
        
       | Kye wrote:
       | Has the building system improved any since 2023?
       | 
       | I did a playthrough back then:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7oYF3lDf4g&list=PLfFb7mAGQz...
       | 
       | But decided I wanted to focus on building, only to discover it
       | was extremely glitchy.
        
       | Yeul wrote:
       | Personally I prefer content with story and characters. Which is
       | why nobody has beaten Mass effect yet.
        
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