[HN Gopher] Google Pixel 4a's old firmware is gone, trapping use...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google Pixel 4a's old firmware is gone, trapping users on buggy
       battery update
        
       Author : bmaupin
       Score  : 225 points
       Date   : 2025-01-29 14:59 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.androidcentral.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.androidcentral.com)
        
       | hengheng wrote:
       | I'm typing this on a 3a XL that just refuses to die. Google's
       | valuation of that device in the Store is the same, but they
       | haven't switched it off. Guess I got lucky.
        
       | rjbwork wrote:
       | Am I the only one that had the immediate thought of "this seems
       | intentional" when they read that they're offering the credit for
       | a newer pixel?
        
         | justinsaccount wrote:
         | > Google has acknowledged the mess and offered compensation: a
         | free battery replacement, $50 cash, or $100 credit toward a new
         | Pixel.
        
           | alt227 wrote:
           | Yet when people have applied for this credit they either get
           | no response, or told it will take several weeks (which is
           | useless when they have just screwed your old phone)
        
         | mottalli wrote:
         | I applied for the $100 credit more than a week ago but it is at
         | Google's discretion, and I've never heard back from them. Even
         | if they offer the credit, I'm not interested anymore and I'll
         | never use a Google Pixel again.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | If a discount on a new Pixel was the only option, I'd suspect
         | that. $50 cash is around 2/3 what a Pixel 4a goes for on Ebay.
        
         | letwhile wrote:
         | No, this is obviously an illegal scam.
        
         | wonger_ wrote:
         | Most believe that they're trying to prevent safety issues with
         | overheating batteries. This update prevents the battery from
         | being charged too much or too little.
        
           | ComputerGuru wrote:
           | Draining the battery from 100% to 0% in under an hour (as
           | other commenters have mentioned) is the opposite of this, as
           | that will necessarily dump a lot of heat.
        
             | gertlex wrote:
             | No, it's not actually draining the battery faster. It's
             | setting low level limits on maximum and minimum charge
             | levels. (and also the charge rate, further controlling heat
             | issues)
             | 
             | Some folks have hooked up devices between the phone and
             | charge cable that do the coulomb counting (or similar), and
             | (the one case I saw) showed that the phone is only taking
             | in about 40% of the watt-hours that it was doing before the
             | OTA update.
             | 
             | From what I've seen, no one can point to any actual
             | incidents with these phones being dangerously hot. But the
             | google FAQ did have a "Yes you can still take the pixel 4a
             | on flights", reminiscent of the samsung phone issue several
             | years ago...
        
             | traxys wrote:
             | Could be that the new 100% and 0% are something like the
             | old 80% and 20%
        
           | patall wrote:
           | If it is just that, they should have written so. Because what
           | they wrote was that some devices may be affected from this
           | optimization. Nothing general. And if this is really an
           | issue, all those that now change to Lineage or Graphe will be
           | an even bigger issue soon. Because in that case, Google knew,
           | and did not say so.
           | 
           | * Send from my now charging 4a
        
       | mottalli wrote:
       | I received the email from Google notifying me of this "battery
       | performance update" for my Pixel 4A which actually _drains the
       | battery faster_ , so it left me scratching my head wondering what
       | a "performance update" is for Google.
       | 
       | After the update, my battery was depleted at an alarming rate. I
       | applied for the $100 voucher but I've never heard back from
       | Google. So I decided to bite the bullet and moved to iPhone
       | instead. Apple might not be the best, but this was the last straw
       | for me.
        
         | gertlex wrote:
         | I'm a weirdo who carries two pixel 4as. I'm also waiting for a
         | response regarding the $100 voucher on one of my phones... My
         | other one I took in for the free battery replacement, and
         | that's doing OK.
         | 
         | But yeah, I was planning to go for a Pixel 9 or 9a (when that's
         | been out for a while), but this forcing of the hand by google
         | is absolute BS, and the alternatives are unsatisfactory.
        
           | segasaturn wrote:
           | I recently ordered a Fairphone 5, imported from the UK. Stock
           | Android experience, replaceable battery, SD card slot,
           | unlocked bootloader and modding is encouraged. Its basically
           | what the Pixel (Nexus) line was originally supposed to be.
        
         | alt227 wrote:
         | You dont remember batterygate then?
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate
        
           | zer0x4d wrote:
           | Lol this was the most blown out of proportion "gate" ever and
           | a nothing burger really. The issue wasn't what Apple did, as
           | it is a very common practice in the industry and I bet almost
           | every other manufacturer did it too. The issue was that they
           | didn't notify the user.
        
           | jeromegv wrote:
           | It was the opposite, slowing down the processor to preserve
           | the battery (when a battery was quite old).
        
       | tocs3 wrote:
       | Would grapheneos (https://grapheneos.org/) help with this? I am
       | using a pixel 4a as a "house phone" so it is plugged in all the
       | time but I wonder if I should upgrade.
        
         | gertlex wrote:
         | In the sense that it was a perfectly good phone, and still
         | works with e.g. various bank apps or whatever... and I got
         | tired of jail-break/customization stuff of smart devices about
         | a decade ago... the extra work to wipe everything and explore a
         | new world of things that might turn out to be broken isn't what
         | I'd consider a reasonable option. :/
        
           | gausswho wrote:
           | Things have come a long way. The GrapheneOS installation in
           | particular is very straightforward. And most banks work just
           | fine as apps, and if not via their website.
        
           | sifar wrote:
           | I use GrapheneOS on my pixel 4a ever since I got it a few
           | years ago. Installation is straightforward and it is a best
           | of both worlds - you can install and run android apps from
           | the playstore in a sandbox.
        
             | gertlex wrote:
             | I have three... I should try this... but so many other
             | projects :'(
        
         | badmintonbaseba wrote:
         | > Since this is a major release, the Pixel 4a (5G) and Pixel 5
         | have not been ported to Android 14 QPR2 as part our initial
         | release. We need to determine whether it makes sense to move
         | these end-of-life devices to Android 14 QPR2 or keep them on a
         | legacy extended support release branch based on the last
         | Android 14 QPR1 release.
         | 
         | https://grapheneos.org/releases#2024030600
        
         | sifar wrote:
         | I own a pixel 4a with grapheneOS - I received a couple of os
         | updates in the last week, haven't run into this issue yet. Will
         | see.
        
         | nelblu wrote:
         | I use pixel 3 with https://calyxos.org/ as a home phone to play
         | music, record videos, pictures etc. Calyxos is still providing
         | extended support for 4a, but microG doesn't work as well
         | compared to sandboxed google play services on grapheneos (which
         | i use on my 7a). So if google services are not too important go
         | ahead with calyxos.
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | Why don't they build a rollback "update" if they wiped the old
       | firmware?
        
         | izzydata wrote:
         | First they have to wait for the maximum number of people to buy
         | new phones.
        
         | gertlex wrote:
         | They as in google?
         | 
         | This happened in a few stages:
         | 
         | Rollout of the new release (Jan 8 or so; I got it maybe Jan
         | 16?)
         | 
         | Folks showed you could get the old update (I don't recall
         | specifics) and block the OTA URLs (developer settings I think?)
         | to prevent re-update.
         | 
         | Google decided to make it harder to get the old firmware.
         | 
         | I couldn't be arsed to wipe my phone, so am just living with
         | the new shitty future for now.
        
       | zimbatm wrote:
       | This needs more coverage. Perfectly good phones are getting
       | thrown out because of a software update.
        
         | deng wrote:
         | Google ended security updates for the Pixel 4a in August 2023,
         | so running this as your daily driver was already problematic.
         | Fortunately, LineageOS officially supports the 4a, and v22 (aka
         | Android 15) was just released for it.
        
           | red_trumpet wrote:
           | That point is so weird: Why offer a "performance update" 1.5
           | years after the end of security updates?
        
             | bdndndndbve wrote:
             | Given the sudden urgency and pulling the old software, I'm
             | assuming they're trying to avoid aging batteries exploding.
        
               | patall wrote:
               | But then they should indicate that. Which they don't.
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | Isn't that just 3 years after release? Is that normal for
           | Google phones? Yikes.
        
             | mananaysiempre wrote:
             | For older Google phones (as well as most other Android
             | ones) it is the standard. (AFAIU this was mostly due to
             | Qualcomm's policies and lack of pushback from Google et
             | al.) Newer Google ones get 5-7 years[1], and Samsung has
             | also switched to a similar support term (but keep in mind
             | that only Samsung's flagships get monthly security
             | updates).
             | 
             | [1] https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705
        
           | ndriscoll wrote:
           | This attitude (and the word "problematic") is so tiring. What
           | is the actual problem with running it as your daily driver?
           | What specific vulnerability are you actually concerned about?
           | Unless there's something like an arbitrary code execution bug
           | in one of the networking/radio stacks, "there aren't updates"
           | is a statement with approximately zero useful information.
        
             | deng wrote:
             | OK, let me google it for you:
             | 
             | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2024-43096
             | 
             | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-
             | bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2024-4377...
             | 
             | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-
             | bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2024-4377...
             | 
             | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2024-49747
             | 
             | https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2024-49748
             | 
             | These are just the RCE bugs without user interaction that
             | were fixed with the January update. They are in the
             | Bluetooth stack.
        
               | chasil wrote:
               | Just curious, does current LineageOS close these CVEs?
               | 
               | I know they pull firmware from disparate devices when
               | possible.
        
               | deng wrote:
               | I didn't check each one explicitly, but it looks
               | promising
               | 
               | https://review.lineageos.org/q/gatt_sr.cc
        
               | ndriscoll wrote:
               | So I'm not terribly familiar with Bluetooth. Are these
               | something that can be exploited by an unpaired device?
               | 
               | "Google Android on a Pixel 4a is vulnerable to remote
               | code execution by arbitrary nearby wireless devices" is
               | certainly a better reason to not use one than "security
               | updates have ended".
        
               | deng wrote:
               | > So I'm not terribly familiar with Bluetooth. Are these
               | something that can be exploited by an unpaired device?
               | 
               | Who knows, someone would need to write an actual exploit
               | for these. Just quickly skim through the Android security
               | bulletins at
               | 
               | https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin
               | 
               | and you'll see that every month lots and lots of CVEs are
               | fixed with at least high or even critical severity in
               | various stacks. If you're running a phone that hasn't
               | received updates since August 2023, you can assume that
               | you have dozens of remotely exploitable bugs on your
               | system. The security track record of Android is
               | absolutely terrible.
               | 
               | That phone hacking is not a big thing is simply because
               | it's usually much easier for a hacker to get into the
               | cloud services people use instead through targeted
               | phishing attacks. If that makes you feel safe using a
               | phone without updates, then good for you, but don't claim
               | these updates aren't actually fixing serious bugs every
               | month.
        
               | ndriscoll wrote:
               | The fact that their bulletins say that there are high and
               | critical vulnerabilities every month is sort of my point.
               | Is this thing actually critical? Can you only send the
               | vulnerable commands _after_ you have paired? [0] suggests
               | these are used after pairing, but like I said I 'm not
               | familiar enough with BT. If that's the case though, "User
               | interaction is not needed for exploitation" is
               | misleading; I'm not going to pair with random devices, so
               | I'm not concerned. I see that with other vulnerabilities
               | too. e.g. CVE-2024-31320 from last year is "critical",
               | and says "there is a possible way to establish a
               | companion device association without any confirmation due
               | to CDM. User interaction is not needed for exploitation."
               | Except if I'm understanding correctly, you need to
               | install a malicious app, and what it does is let that app
               | use a bluetooth device without asking. Big whoop, that's
               | how _everything_ works on desktop, and it 's fine.
               | 
               | The problem is the security industry has such a low
               | signal:noise ratio that it makes sense to just ignore
               | everything they say as a user. They're constantly lying
               | and saying there are important security updates when
               | there aren't, and that everything is high/critical
               | severity when it isn't. In a corporate setting, you just
               | unthinkingly update to check boxes, but as an individual,
               | it makes no sense to do that. And with Android, you have
               | to take possibly undesirable feature updates to get
               | kernel or system library updates. For some products,
               | security updates are to "secure" the device against its
               | owner! Advisories are often lacking enough information to
               | be able to evaluate impact, which further makes it clear
               | that the people publishing them are to be viewed with a
               | skeptical eye.
               | 
               | It should be immediately obvious whether this is
               | exploitable by random passersby (if it actually is)
               | without me having to go learn how bluetooth works at a
               | protocol level. "Don't think about it and just update,
               | install a new OS, or buy new devices" is not a useful
               | attitude.
               | 
               | Things don't become end of life when they stop receiving
               | updates. They become finished. Whether and for what
               | purposes they continue to be useful requires ongoing
               | judgement.
               | 
               | [0] https://learn.adafruit.com/introduction-to-bluetooth-
               | low-ene...
        
             | patall wrote:
             | I assume its a responsibility thing. If your bank login
             | gets hacked on a no longer supported phone, you cannot
             | point at other issues since you were not uptodate anymore.
             | Even if it doesn't matter.
             | 
             | *Written from my 4a.
        
         | dont__panic wrote:
         | There's been a lot of activity on Reddit and Android tech news
         | websites. /r/Pixel4a has been absolutely busy with activity
         | lately, lots of people asking for help.
         | 
         | Decent summary post here:
         | https://www.lambdalatitudinarians.org/techblog/2025/01/09/th...
        
       | quercusa wrote:
       | My wife was affected by this. When she applied for the $100
       | credit, she was told it could take up to three weeks to get the
       | credit form.
        
         | netghost wrote:
         | Which is just awesome when your current phone is broken.
         | 
         | I posted about it and they suggested that I keep a backup phone
         | available at all times, thanks folks.
        
       | deng wrote:
       | You can revert this if you unlock your bootloader:
       | 
       | https://xdaforums.com/t/undo-the-january-2025-update-without...
       | 
       | (EDIT: Just to be clear, and which is also mentioned in that
       | post: unlocking the bootloader will reset the device. If your
       | device is already unlocked though, you will be able to keep the
       | data.)
       | 
       | Of course, I would just advise to switch to LineageOS directly,
       | since Google has stopped providing security updates for the Pixel
       | 4a already in August 2023. I've run LineageOS for years on the
       | Pixel 4a and it has worked pretty much perfectly for me:
       | 
       | https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sunfish/
       | 
       | Android 15 (LineageOS 22) was just released for it.
        
         | ianbooker wrote:
         | How is the photo quality? I love the pictures from the old 12MP
         | sensor + Googles software, but I understand this is not in
         | Lineage?
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | The Pixel camera app is available from the Play Store, and
           | there are third-party ports of Gcam to other devices that
           | offer extra configuration options.
           | https://www.celsoazevedo.com/files/android/google-camera/
        
           | deng wrote:
           | Well, they are good enough for me, but to be honest, I'm not
           | particularly picky... As said in a parallel post, you can get
           | GCam in APK form (I run LineageOS without GApps) but I hear
           | it's a bit trial&error to find one that works and I haven't
           | bothered.
        
           | j1elo wrote:
           | I'd also be interested to know if a Google Camera app
           | installed post-facto to LineageOS is compatible with the
           | remote control & viewfinder of the Pixel Watch.
        
           | nunez wrote:
           | Loved the photos from my 4a when I had it many years ago.
           | 
           | Videos, on the other hand...
        
       | matja wrote:
       | Are these not the old images? :
       | https://developers.google.com/android/images#bramble
        
         | joombaga wrote:
         | Right page, wrong anchor. They removed all but the latest
         | firmware for the "sunfish", i.e. the non-5g Pixel 4a.
         | 
         | https://developers.google.com/android/images#sunfish
        
       | Sateeshm wrote:
       | Best phone I've ever used. Still going great after 4 years. Don't
       | know how long it will last. There doesn't seem to be anything
       | available with similar form factor.
        
         | timerol wrote:
         | What makes the form factor better than others in the series?
         | I'm curious since I've only owned a Pixel 3a and a Pixel 6a
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | No current phone from any manufacturer that's reasonably
           | desirable is as small as the 4a, and few of any size have a
           | headphone jack.
        
             | rolfvandekrol wrote:
             | Pixel 8a is fairly similar in size. Headphone jacks in
             | phones are (sadly) gone forever i'm afraid.
        
               | Zak wrote:
               | The 8a is 3mm wider, 8mm taller, and 45g heavier. Perhaps
               | that's not a _huge_ difference, but I already consider
               | the 4a too big. I will likely continue not upgrading as
               | long as LineageOS and the hardware remain usable.
        
               | jakub_g wrote:
               | FWIW I was on Pixel 3a until last month; bought Pixel 6
               | in the meantime, but it was too big and heavy to carry
               | around, so I only used it as a "tablet", only at home.
               | 
               | Just updated to Pixel 8 and it fits the hand very well
               | (including Spigen Liquid Air cover), and doesn't feel too
               | heavy. Have a few friends who got Pixel 8 last month on
               | sale as well and they all confirm.
        
               | dns_snek wrote:
               | I switched from 4a to 8a. The weight difference is
               | substantial and really noticable at first. I've gotten
               | used to it now and it runs great with GrapheneOS, but it
               | marked an end of an era of smaller, lighter phones for
               | me.
        
             | beretguy wrote:
             | 5.81" is not small. Even 4.7" iPhones are not small. 4" is
             | the perfect size for a smartphone.
        
             | keyringlight wrote:
             | I looked into this because I find I want something I can
             | stuff into a trouser pocket. The only reasonably viable
             | android option was a Sony Xperia XZ2 compact, from 2018 on
             | android 10. You can put lineage on it which is currently
             | maintained, but that has the downsides of not passing
             | device integrity which some apps will check, or being
             | willing to constantly play cat and mouse to spoof it. Sony
             | also apparently wipe a partition with a little DRM blob for
             | the camera, which degrades some aspect of its post
             | processing capabilities so image quality might be less.
             | There's also the iPhone SE3 which is currently in support
             | 
             | I ended up getting a 'regular' sized samsung only slightly
             | larger than the one it's replacing, but at least modern
             | phones seem to be getting longer software support periods
             | (assuming there's no nasty surprises included).
        
         | ausaus wrote:
         | Replaced my 4a with a similar sized Moto Edge 30 Neo. Overall,
         | much better hardware quality. I had a warranty replacement for
         | the 4a due to cracks around the headphone jack, also happened
         | to the replacement but that wasn't replaced.
         | 
         | The Moto was half the price of the 4a and is still receiving
         | updates.
        
       | wonger_ wrote:
       | It's frustrating. My phone went from 100% to 0% in under an hour.
       | I could not rely on it for a typical workday. Thankfully my job
       | does not require my personal phone, and thankfully the update
       | happened on the weekend. Imagine seeing this Monday morning
       | before work. Who has time to fiddle with firmware? And who has
       | time to set up a new phone in the middle of a workweek,
       | especially if you're switching to a non-Pixel phone?
       | 
       | The small credit does not cover the cost of inconvenience.
        
       | stephaner wrote:
       | Same problem here (a few hours of battery life and it's very slow
       | to charge now). This update makes no sense at all, excepted if
       | you want to force your users to buy a new phone.
       | 
       | For me, it should be a RED flag on the Pixel lineup and on the
       | confidence in Google.
       | 
       | I filled https://www.stopobsolescence.org/.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | Just bought a pixel 9 pro fold. I am now returning it. Tricks
         | like this mean I won't be a customer.
        
       | sacckey wrote:
       | This reminded me of when my Nexus 5X went into a boot loop.
        
         | starkparker wrote:
         | This reminds me of when Google's last update to the 2012 wi-fi
         | Nexus 7 botched its TRIM implementation, which made everyone
         | think its shitty eMMC was to blame. I held onto mine sort of as
         | a joke for more than a decade.
         | 
         | I only just found out a month ago that the Android update
         | caused its performance to tank, then put LineageOS on it, and
         | was shocked to find that 13-year-old tablet was not only still
         | usable but actually kinda good.
        
       | fumeux_fume wrote:
       | My spouse had to buy a new phone because of this issue. Neither
       | of us got any notification about the battery issue. Even if we
       | did, what Google is offering here isn't great. We tried to get
       | the battery replaced, but was told that the process could likely
       | break the screen and jack up the cost to nearly the original
       | purchase price. Sending the phone in for repair also isn't a good
       | solution because she needs it for auth at work. What a mess.
        
       | MaximilianEmel wrote:
       | See also:
       | https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Pixel_4a_Battery_Perform...
        
       | pkaye wrote:
       | My spouse and I have the same situation but strangely but my
       | phone seems much better while my spouse's phone drains very
       | quickly. We just took it in for a battery replacement at the
       | Google store and should be picking it up soon.
        
       | j1elo wrote:
       | I'm (we all are) constantly reminded to update our phones to
       | latest available updates, but sh*t like this is what teaches
       | users to instead disable and ignore updates indefinitely, under
       | the premise of "if it works don't touch it" (addendum: "...
       | because most probably an update will break it")
       | 
       | And here I am, ignoring updates on my Pixel 6a since October 2024
       | (there were reports of crashes or bricking, what a surprise) and
       | planning to keep doing that for the foreseeable future.
       | 
       | Sucks having to choose between a potentially (even likely, seeing
       | the trend) broken device or an unsecured one. Pick your poison.
        
         | OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
         | Google 4a user here. They pushed an update while I was on a ski
         | trip in Korea - I updated an hour before getting on my bus
         | and.. the application launcher started crashing on unlock. I
         | couldn't open any apps.
         | 
         | Thankfully, I was able to get into the settings and switch to
         | Lawnchair without a working "desktop UI", but without a second
         | application launcher I would have been totally screwed. I
         | checked the Play Store afterwards and saw hundreds of people
         | with the same issue.
         | 
         | On Linux I can choose which "security" updates to install, and
         | only install those. Why can't Windows and Android provide such
         | a feature?
        
           | TonyTrapp wrote:
           | Stuff like this is why I keep printing entrance tickets and
           | the like. I don't want to end up in a situation where I have
           | to trust software that is known to have new bugs every months
           | to get into a place without any sort of backup.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | >Stuff like this is why I keep printing entrance tickets
             | and the like.
             | 
             | I almost got completely screwed by my pixel updating right
             | before a concert while I was already out of town. Luckily
             | my wife was able to login to my computer and forward the
             | tickets to someone else that I was with, but it was a close
             | call because she was walking out the door to do something
             | herself when I managed to get ahold of her.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | This works until you start attending events that require
             | you to present your cell phone for entrance
        
               | encom wrote:
               | What? For what purpose? I've never heard of or
               | encountered this.
        
               | geoffpado wrote:
               | Some concerts have tickets that refresh every N seconds,
               | ostensibly to prevent counterfeiting.
               | https://conduition.io/coding/ticketmaster/
               | 
               | In this case, if you don't have a phone that can display
               | Ticketmaster's code, you're just SOL, since they decided
               | to break being able to just print out your code.
        
           | kllrnohj wrote:
           | > Why can't Windows and Android provide such a feature?
           | 
           | Windows does.
           | 
           | Android "can't" because the OS is a partition image with
           | libraries not intended to be updated piecemeal, not a
           | collection of loosely related external projects like Linux
           | is.
        
             | AnthonyMouse wrote:
             | Nothing actually requires Android to be that way. They
             | chose poorly but every new release is an opportunity to fix
             | it.
        
               | kllrnohj wrote:
               | > They chose poorly
               | 
               | Did they? Immutable system images are a pretty solid
               | feature to have. It's a lot less "fall over broken as
               | shit randomly" than desktop Linux is...
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >Google 4a user here. They pushed an update while I was on a
           | ski trip in Korea - I updated an hour before getting on my
           | bus and.. the application launcher started crashing on
           | unlock. I couldn't open any apps.
           | 
           | I had that happen like a year ago while I was getting ready
           | to go to a concert in another state. Luckily I was able to
           | call my wife have her login to my gmail and forward my
           | digital tickets to someone else in my party.
        
           | eldaisfish wrote:
           | Nonsense like this is why I personally will never buy a
           | google hardware product ever again.
           | 
           | It is also why it is so difficult to recommend an android
           | phone because of google being an advert company first.
        
             | Freak_NL wrote:
             | The other side of the coin is that the Pixels are one of
             | the few (only?) devices supported by GrapheneOS.
             | 
             | (My Pixel 6 is rock solid on that by the way.)
        
               | eldaisfish wrote:
               | I had a nexus 5x and then a pixel 4a. The latter I bought
               | used as a burner phone.
               | 
               | This is the core problem - it is a roll of the dice
               | whether your hardware will work five years from today.
               | 
               | I'm less concerned about the software but that is also a
               | problem.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, my iPhone SE from 2016 still works as
               | advertised.
        
             | ycombinatrix wrote:
             | apple is an advertising company too. what's the
             | alternative?
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | Something like CalyxOS on Fairphone, presumably.
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | Apple _also has_ an advertising company. And they track
               | you, but they get money by selling you stuff mostly. I'm
               | deep into the Apple ecosystem system and they don't force
               | updates, try to upsell me every time updates are
               | installed. I have no ads on the apps I use. They are
               | quite happy for you to fork over gobs of money and call
               | it a day.
               | 
               | Googles primary source of income is ads. All this stuff
               | they do is the primary way they get money. People need to
               | stop being surprised this is where they ended up.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | I think security updates are mostly BS designed to make users
         | voluntarily give up control. Almost nobody would ever be
         | affected by these CVEs but the ceding of control affects
         | everyone.
        
         | hysan wrote:
         | I was visiting my parents for the holidays and came across this
         | exact mindset. I usually push them to update for security, but
         | I learned that they stopped doing that this year. Apparently
         | some update broke/removed/changed an accessibility feature on
         | their phone in a way that I couldn't figure out how to revert.
         | My mom had updated her phone first so only she was affected. My
         | dad now refuses to update his phone and both of them have
         | completely stopped updating for fear that something else will
         | "break". I can't really blame them, but it does worry me and
         | now I'm trying to think of what I can do to secure their
         | devices if they're not going to update.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | Hmm. Assuming Android, install Firefox with uBlock Origin,
           | and hide the Chrome and App Store launchers someplace deep?
        
             | hysan wrote:
             | It's not an ad thing. It was an OS level accessibility
             | feature dealing with text sizing and other reading related
             | settings.
        
               | coldpie wrote:
               | Sorry, I should have quoted your post. I was responding
               | to this portion:
               | 
               | > now I'm trying to think of what I can do to secure
               | their devices if they're not going to update
        
               | hysan wrote:
               | Gotcha. That might help somewhat but it wouldn't solve
               | the "never update Android or any other app" problem. I'd
               | also have to get them used to using a new browser. It's a
               | larger problem that their trust in tech was easily
               | (possibly irreversibly) broken after years of me slowly
               | convincing them and getting them used to letting their
               | devices update. They are even older now and having had a
               | stint working in the senior care tech space, I know that
               | trying to tech the older generation to use tech safely is
               | a very high hurdle. Now that I don't live near them, I'm
               | not sure that's a hurdle that can be easily overcome.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | The software industry has known how to do this for a very
           | long time, but some companies refuse to do it. You maintain a
           | "sustaining" branch just for security and other legitimately
           | urgent fixes, and a main branch for everything else. Users
           | are nudged more strongly to apply the sustaining fixes and
           | the main update branch should be optional.
           | 
           | We have immensely powerful version control and branching at
           | developers' disposal, much better than at any past time I can
           | think of. Yet, most companies insist on having a single
           | release that increments, and users must take everything or
           | nothing whenever they update.
           | 
           | Phone/OS manufacturers are actually better than most, and
           | both major operating systems do provide security updates in
           | parallel with major (feature) updates, but only for a very
           | short amount of time.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | But it isn't this simple, because you wouldn't need a
             | single "maintaining" branch. You would need one for each
             | feature release that the user may stop at.
             | 
             | So if you release the feature branch every 3 months after a
             | few years you will have a dozen maintaining branches to
             | backport fixes to, and in which to carefully test that the
             | fix actually works. The problem is linearly worse if you
             | release the feature branch more often.
        
               | catlikesshrimp wrote:
               | Or give the user the choice when first powering on the
               | device.
               | 
               | Select: Base version that will only receive security
               | updates. No changes in features. OR All updates
               | 
               | Edit: By "Base version" I mean the first software version
               | for that device.
        
               | rincebrain wrote:
               | This was, I believe, the problem that Microsoft wanted to
               | resolve with their gradual burndown of WSUS - a lot of
               | shops (including one I used to work at) would selectively
               | roll out updates based on whether they thought they were
               | relevant, resulting in an explosion of configurations
               | that Microsoft had absolutely never tested against, and
               | naturally, a lot of breakage.
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | This doesn't really jive with reality as Windows is
               | plenty buggy in the presence or absence of the latest
               | updates. Microsoft has slowly eliminated end user
               | controls over updates because it would interfere with
               | their ability to monetize their customer base. You can't
               | really push a telemetry update, if updates aren't being
               | applied.
        
               | AnthonyMouse wrote:
               | > So if you release the feature branch every 3 months
               | after a few years you will have a dozen maintaining
               | branches to backport fixes to, and in which to carefully
               | test that the fix actually works. The problem is linearly
               | worse if you release the feature branch more often.
               | 
               | This has been solved by LTS releases for some time. You
               | have a newest release branch that gets feature updates
               | immediately and an LTS branch which has a full release
               | e.g. once every two or three years, at which point it
               | catches up on features to the then-current newest release
               | branch. The newest release branch doesn't have long-term
               | support and you're expected to take the latest feature
               | update, the LTS branch gets only security updates, the
               | user can choose between the two or three LTS releases
               | currently in the support window or the newest release
               | branch.
        
               | jennyholzer wrote:
               | "This has been solved" is an arrogant way to put it.
        
           | xethos wrote:
           | Frankly, even the scarequotes around break feel misplaced.
           | Your Mom can't use the device like she wants to. An
           | accessibility feature is gone to the point you can't get it
           | back. That feels pretty broken to me.
        
             | hysan wrote:
             | Yeah, you're probably right. I just wanted to write my
             | anecdotal experience in a way that would avoid the "you're
             | holding it wrong" crowd because the point is how this leads
             | to broken trust, not whatever broken feature it is.
        
         | behnamoh wrote:
         | The way Google botched the Android 11 update to my Pixel 4a was
         | the nail in the coffin in convincing me to go back to iPhone. I
         | don't want to upgrade my Android and see a totally different UI
         | every single time. I want consistency and I don't want Google
         | to mess with things that already work. This is very childish on
         | their side and just shows that Google engineers and managers
         | don't use their own products.
        
           | ycombinatrix wrote:
           | >I don't want Google to mess with things that already work.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, that is exactly how Google rewards performance
           | internally
        
         | spencerflem wrote:
         | It's crazy- I feel like outside of videogames, and sometimes
         | programming languages, almost every single "update" makes
         | things worse.
         | 
         | They shuffle the UI around, or put in more ads, or recently-
         | add some new AI feature. Genuinely can't remember the last OS
         | or App update I've been happy about.
         | 
         | Makes me sad to think of all the developers working long hours
         | just to make their users upset.
        
       | lnauta wrote:
       | My pixel 4a lasted about 3 hours before the update, now its about
       | an hour. Even with the discount in the store, it was cheaper to
       | get the pixel 8a and some cash from a local vendor. The ticket to
       | get the reimbursement went surprisingly fast, still waiting on
       | money though.
       | 
       | Yesterday I got my new 8a, installed grapheneos and it works very
       | well! So far no massive issues. When I tried this on the 4a some
       | years ago, netflix complained about general certificate stuff and
       | casting was broken, microG et al was barely holding on. Now, no
       | problems at all!
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | I've been running GraphiteOS on my Pixel 4a (it is a backup
       | phone) and obviously it doesn't have the battery update but I can
       | attest that it works great with it.
        
       | netghost wrote:
       | This destroyed my phone, and their appeasement process was
       | terrible too. There was no way for me to find out whether there
       | was a supported repair shop nearby, the $50 cash was apparently
       | through a very dodgy company, and then $100 google store credit
       | didn't disclose that it's "upon review within three weeks" until
       | after you irrevocably chose the option.
       | 
       | The whole thing is ridiculous and poorly handled. Sadly, if my
       | phone had just cracked or failed to turn on, I'd probably have
       | upgraded happily and moved on with my life. As it is, now I feel
       | like something was taken from me. So it goes
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Here is a map of the stores:
         | 
         | https://images.ctfassets.net/d9ybqgejqp0w/7hP2z3Oyn8xH4TvFJt...
         | 
         | You can schedule an appointment here:
         | 
         | https://asurion.com
         | 
         | A retired coworker got a 4a off eBay two years ago, and it's
         | eligible for a free battery replacement.
        
       | chabad360 wrote:
       | Speaking as a Pixel 4a customer with this update: I received the
       | update, and like everyone else, my phone battery started draining
       | incredibly quickly. However, after getting the free battery
       | replacement, my phone's battery has returned to draining as
       | normal (and on the plus side, has somewhat renewed the life of
       | this phone).
        
         | kpeeters wrote:
         | Ditto. Replaced battery, phone is as new.
        
         | snovymgodym wrote:
         | I'm glad it worked out for you.
         | 
         | The problem is, the Pixel 4a is not designed to have the
         | battery be swapped and it's common to break screens and other
         | parts of the phone in the process. You can look up what's
         | involved and it's no surprise that this is the case.
         | 
         | It's basically a nice little case of hardware and software
         | anti-consumer policies working together to break people's
         | devices and force them to consume more.
         | 
         | Without legislation nothing will change.
        
           | snailmailstare wrote:
           | I think the EU is fixing it for the pixel 11a and up.
        
       | rwoerz wrote:
       | I wonder why these "forced updates till kaputt" do not fall under
       | (malicious) property damage. It is not just Google: My Amazon
       | Kindle gets less and less responsive the last years without any
       | noteworthy functional improvements. Same for the Firestick.
        
       | wobfan wrote:
       | There's a nice video about this from Louis Rossmann [1] that
       | talks about this in detail and tries to find some reasons for it,
       | and he seems to suggest that the update was never about improving
       | the battery life as in getting more usage per charge out of the
       | battery, but improving it as in limiting the battery full charge
       | capacity to minimize potential problems with it, because he (and
       | others) assume that they identified bad batches and are trying to
       | fix potential problems with them by limiting it.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xboo6sV-cJU
        
         | NotPractical wrote:
         | If you prefer reading over watching (thanks @MaximilianEmel):
         | https://wiki.rossmanngroup.com/wiki/Pixel_4a_Battery_Perform...
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | He's a great advocate for right-to-repair . we have a crisis
         | that few people are concerned about.
        
       | donclark wrote:
       | I resolved this problem on my Pixel 4a by installing graphene OS.
       | YMMV.
        
         | klaff wrote:
         | Did you install GrapheneOS before or after the problematic
         | update from google?
        
           | donclark wrote:
           | After the update from Google, my 4a did not seem to hold a
           | charge like it did before. I read the reviews/risks and
           | thought that my easiest options were to either roll-back the
           | OS update, or finally give GrapheneOS a try.
        
             | klaff wrote:
             | ty
        
       | sega_sai wrote:
       | I've updated a couple of weeks ago, but I already had a battery
       | replaced last year, so I didn't notice anything untoward with the
       | charge. I did however start to have a vertical green line on the
       | screen that appears for a while, then disappears for a while. (it
       | is possible the line is just a coincidence and an unrelated
       | screen defect).
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | wow. i was actually considering getting a 4a as the lynchpin for
       | my move back to Android (as no small Android phones exist
       | anymore).
       | 
       | anyway, iPhone 13 Mini until it dissolves into dust.
        
       | OliveMate wrote:
       | Hi, (soon to be ex) Pixel 4a user here. Regardless of why this
       | update has happened, the way Google have went about this update
       | is sketchy at best, and deceitful at worst. To be plain: this
       | phone has been EOL for 11/2 years now. This update has appeared
       | out of the blue and specifically decimates the battery + charging
       | capabilities.
       | 
       | My most charitable view is that Google have found a major fault
       | with the Pixel 4a battery and want to mitigate a repeat of the
       | Galaxy Note 7 without saying it outright and causing a panic.
       | 
       | My least charitable view (and immediate reaction) is that they're
       | purposely ruining a viable budget phone to make more sales.
       | 
       | Either of these are terrible. At no point has Google came out and
       | stated -why- they're pushing this update in the first place. And
       | as someone who hasn't updated I'd really like to know if my phone
       | presents an immediate threat (and I'm sure Governments and
       | airlines would also like to know) before I remotely consider an
       | update that'll practically destroy my device.
       | 
       | On top of this, within a day of being notified about this update,
       | Google drastically raised the price of new Pixels on their store.
       | Again if I'm charitable it could just be _automatic global market
       | price_ updates, but that goes out the window when Google must
       | have prepared this update, FAQs, support plans, etc, then
       | released it just before said price updates. The $100 discount
       | recourse doesn 't go far when the 8a jumped from PS379 to PS499.
       | It's hard not to feel suspicious about it.
       | 
       | While I'm here, I did briefly write about my experiences with the
       | 4a, though I'm far from a competent tech writer:
       | https://callmeo.live/blog/ode-to-the-pixel-4a/
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | >My least charitable view (and immediate reaction) is that
         | they're purposely ruining a viable budget phone to make more
         | sales.
         | 
         | My wife was using a pixel 4 until last year and upgraded to a
         | 7, I took her old phone and switched it over to my info and
         | used it for like 2 days before it got a random update and
         | refused to ever work again. Her 7 just got an update a couple
         | of days ago and the battery went dead and it refused to boot
         | until it'd been plugged in for an hour and then would only boot
         | into recovery mode before finally returning to normal. I think
         | google just has something really screwed up with their update
         | process.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | I am still on a 4a.
         | 
         | I really hate how in subsequent generations, they faithfully
         | cloned Apple's design decisions of removing ports and making
         | the device gigantic.
         | 
         | "For customers who are dissatisfied with iphones,
         | 
         | Our product is a slightly different iphone-like device."
         | 
         | I mean come on now, what the hell...
         | 
         | About twice a decade google makes a good phone and the others
         | are just iphone knockoffs
        
           | silon42 wrote:
           | Also the OS is copying Apple, making it worse.
        
           | lynndotpy wrote:
           | I feel this a lot. Android's used to differentiate themselves
           | from iPhones by having useful technical features at a
           | competitive price. I used to be die-hard pro-Android, but now
           | I can find very few reasons to buy one.
           | 
           | Now the Android UI is sparse and wobbly, Androids lost call
           | recording, sideloading is limited, and they raised their
           | prices to cost as much as iPhones.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, iPhones got call recording, they opened up NFC (a
           | bit) and they support CalDAV and CardDAV and SMB natively in
           | its built-in apps. The "control center" on iOS is
           | customizable, to the point they do what Android's quick tiles
           | did before 2020 or so.
           | 
           | It's very frustrating-- I wish they still made Androids like
           | they used to :(
        
             | homebrewer wrote:
             | This comment equates Android with Google phones for some
             | reason. The complaints have nothing to do with Android --
             | side loading is light years ahead of Apple (and third party
             | application stores can finally automatically update
             | applications). Call recording works fine on my friend's
             | Xiaomi 14T (I think) that he bought just a couple of weeks
             | ago, and it works fine on my own device that's on latest
             | Lineage (Android 15). There's lots of choice in UI
             | depending on which vendor you're going with; I'm fine with
             | stock Lineage (i.e. stock Android). There's lots of choice
             | price wise (even the homeless have smartphones these days),
             | while the cheapest iPhone costs about two median monthly
             | salaries here.
             | 
             | Just don't buy anything from Google, they've always screwed
             | something up.
        
               | lynndotpy wrote:
               | I have a very small pool of Androids I consider. Pixels
               | maintain a strong security model (similar to what iPhones
               | have), and they allow you to re-lock the bootloader after
               | installing a non-stock OS. It's between a Pixel, or a
               | FairPhone.
               | 
               | I liked Lineage, but an unlocked bootloader is a security
               | non-starter for a device that's so personal and vital.
               | 
               | For those using the stock OS, Googles are nice because
               | you "only" have Google's spyware built in to the OS.
        
               | dhc02 wrote:
               | I didn't realize there were some non-stick OSes that you
               | could re-lock the bootloader for. Which ones?
        
               | lynndotpy wrote:
               | GrapheneOS and CalyxOS are the only ones I'm aware of! It
               | requires OS support and the phone to support it too, so
               | it's a rare combo.
        
             | spencerflem wrote:
             | Same- I stick with them out of spite, since I refuse to use
             | a device that doesn't allow replacing the OS or installing
             | your own software ("sideloading")
             | 
             | But they're pretty clearly worse as phones and I'll go to
             | my grave mad about the headphone jack.
        
               | JTbane wrote:
               | I'm still mad that I have to keep track of a tiny 3.5mm
               | to USB-C dongle.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | I lost mine yesterday -_+ have to buy a new one I guess
               | 
               | pure evil
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | I've been very happy to have my headphone port back since
               | I upgraded from iPhone 7 to REDMAGIC 9S Pro
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | I think this is something apple doesn't realize.
           | 
           | They used to have a really good human factors/ui team. I
           | remember Bruce Tognazzini and reading his blog.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Tognazzini
           | 
           | https://www.asktog.com/
           | 
           | I think I noticed around ios 7 things were getting bad.
           | buttons didn't look like buttons, on-screen controls started
           | being hidden, and form trumped function. Then like you said,
           | ports disappeared and to me "do the wrong thing correctly"
           | started winning.
           | 
           | but the worst thing is that apple sets an example. The same
           | "simplify for sales, but not usability" technique has
           | happened to countless other products in many industries. all
           | laptops have elegant looking keys that have no curve to fit
           | and center your fingers. Tesla cars have a pleasing-looking
           | design, but when you drive them, you can't lean on the
           | touchscreen to hit targets, you don't have drive selection or
           | turn signal stalks to help you get into a parking space
           | easily, and "elegant simplicity" is "cost cutting for the
           | peons".
           | 
           | sigh.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Unless your Pixel 4a is from Verizon (locked), keep it.
         | 
         | Unlock the bootloader, then install LineageOS, MindTheGapps,
         | and Magisk.
         | 
         | Once you have Magisk stabilized, install the Advanced Charging
         | Controller, and configure it to halt charging at 80%.
         | 
         | That should solve your problems, and turn the updates back on.
         | I don't think there is a way to make Google Pay work in this
         | configuration, which is a drawback.
         | 
         | I can put all the URLs here if you ask.
         | 
         | Edit:
         | 
         | https://lineageos.org/
         | 
         | [I did not remember that Lineage hosts gapps images]
         | 
         | https://wiki.lineageos.org/gapps/
         | 
         | [IIRC, the APK is renamed to a ZIP and flashed with recovery,
         | then name it back and install the app]
         | 
         | https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk/releases/tag/v28.1
         | 
         | https://magiskmanager.com/
         | 
         | https://github.com/VR-25/acc/releases/tag/v2023.10.16
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >Once you have Magisk stabilized, install the Advanced
           | Charging Controller, and configure it to halt charging at
           | 80%.
           | 
           | That will reduce future wear, but won't suddenly make the
           | battery better. If anything it'll make the battery even
           | worse, at least in the short term.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Installing Lineage by itself will drastically reduce power
             | consumption on many devices, as vendor bloat is wiped. A
             | net gain is possible, even with ACC 80% in place.
             | 
             | With a Pixel, there is less bloat, so it is less of a
             | factor with this particular device. However, you don't get
             | the full suite of Chrome/Maps/Gmail/Drive/Photos/etc.
             | installed by default, and what you have not installed will
             | not drain your battery.
             | 
             | In any case, one would hope that Google's safeguards are
             | equaled by ACC.
        
             | JudasGoat wrote:
             | My 4a went from 3 day battery life to less than a day,
             | immediately after the "update".
        
           | beretguy wrote:
           | > I can put all the URLs here if you ask.
           | 
           | I'm not who you replied to but can you please do? I've been
           | wanting to make a LineageOS device for a while but was being
           | cheap (and it wasn't high enough priority). But maybe now
           | there will be a lot of cheap Pixel 4a on eBay in the near
           | future and I'll go for it.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Just be careful that you do not get anything sold by
             | Verizon, as these unfortunates do not allow bootloader
             | unlocking.
             | 
             | I also remember some rumor that all Pixels must access WiFi
             | before they will allow bootloader unlocking in the
             | developer options.
        
           | conaclos wrote:
           | > Once you have Magisk stabilized, install the Advanced
           | Charging Controller, and configure it to halt charging at
           | 80%.
           | 
           | If we install LineageOS, should we worry about Google's
           | firmware update? Then why bother with all these steps?
        
           | burningChrome wrote:
           | >>> Unlock the bootloader, then install LineageOS,
           | MindTheGapps, and Magisk.
           | 
           | Unless you have researched this and are comfortable doing
           | these things, this is not something that's easy to do. I
           | bricked my OnePlus Nord100 not once, but TWICE trying to
           | install Ubuntu Touch.
           | 
           | It happened because the Nord100 shipped with a more current
           | Android version (11.xx) and Ubuntu can only be installed over
           | two very specific versions (10.xx) on the Nord. I bricked it
           | once thinking it could be installed over the 11 version. Then
           | I had to figure out how to reflash the phone back to the 10
           | version, then run the UBports installer.
           | 
           | I was lucky because I bought the Nord100 for like $50 on ebay
           | so it wasn't a big deal if I wasn't able to unbrick the
           | phone, but if you do this to a more expensive phone, the
           | consequences are a lot more expensive.
           | 
           | I love Lineage OS and have it running on a Pixel 4XL, but my
           | experience flashing and re-flashing the phone several times,
           | and all the work I went into just to get UT running on that
           | phone, really dampened my enthusiasm to ever do this again.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | I've loaded Cyanogenmod on the HTC Incredible 1 & 2, and
             | the BN Nook color.
             | 
             | I've loaded Lineage on the Nexus 6, Oneplus 3a & 5 & Nord
             | N200, the original Pixel, and the Pixel 3a XL.
             | 
             | Pixels are the most forgiving, and the hardest to brick.
             | They are also the best for VoLTE.
             | 
             | I also have an N100, which is not supported by Lineage.
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | Do I misunderstand what Ubuntu Touch is? I thought it was
             | its own thing whose only relation to Android was the BSP,
             | not some type of layer on top of Android. If so then it
             | seems irrelevant and unfair to bring up w/r/t the well-
             | tested Android-to-different-Android path.
        
           | sharpshadow wrote:
           | That defeats the whole point of a Pixel, the camera app.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | A URL can be found below to load it back into your custom
             | ROM, and supposedly the same camera can be found in the
             | Play store.
        
           | wanderingmind wrote:
           | Why go all through that pain when graphene OS gives you a
           | straightforward install?
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Because the 4a is on extended support, is not recommended,
             | and cessation can happen any time now?
             | 
             | https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices
        
               | snailmailstare wrote:
               | Is that different on lineageOS or just not as clearly
               | stated?
        
           | aquasync wrote:
           | Thanks for the info! My pixel has already applied the update
           | unfortunately - any ideas if switching to lineageos is still
           | helpful in that case?
           | 
           | They're not offering the free battery replacement in Aus
           | otherwise I'd do that - hard to be sure that getting a new
           | battery in a local repair shop wouldn't be similarly affected
           | by the new limits (presumably some sort of blacklist on
           | serial numbers?).
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | The new battery behavior is probably just some POSIX
             | userspace process running under Linux, or perhaps some
             | kernel tweak.
             | 
             | The whole of userspace will be replaced when LineageOS
             | reformats all of the partitions.
             | 
             | It is possible that the new battery behavior has been
             | injected into some deeper part of the hardware, but
             | LineageOS is unlikely to make that worse.
        
         | KORraN wrote:
         | Great comment, even though I'm concerned whether my Pixel is a
         | ticking bomb now. The update has been downloaded to my device,
         | but before installing it, I decided to check Reddit and found
         | out the battery issues. Since then, I'm dismissing the update
         | prompt, praying to not miss-click.
         | 
         | The article got it wrong - even before the update has been
         | published, Google already sent e-mail to registered users with
         | a note that the upcoming update may reduce battery life and
         | offered either battery replacement or money:
         | https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/15701861 But the
         | results people post are way beyond anyone expected.
        
           | ChoGGi wrote:
           | The Dev options have a setting to not apply updates on
           | reboot. I'm hoping that'll work if I forget.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | The repair places have been overwhelmed; I've had three
         | apppoints to replace my wife's 4a battery that have been
         | cancelled because they ran out of stock due to huge unexpected
         | demand.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | There is no way Google is making software update plans based on
         | the revenue opportunity for breaking phones that are already 2
         | years past end of life.
         | 
         | The numbers just don't make sense.
         | 
         | Users who love 5-year-old phones can easily get a cheap used
         | phone, which are in abundant supply.
        
           | ikiris wrote:
           | Your incredulity is misplaced. They've admitted in
           | depositions this is a basis for decision making like this.
        
         | mathstuf wrote:
         | > At no point has Google came out and stated -why- they're
         | pushing this update in the first place.
         | 
         | The cynic in me recommends that anyone contributing to Google
         | (or really any big tech company) projects to use "bug fixes and
         | performance improvements" or "What's new:" (with an empty body)
         | as commit messages and refuse to update them until we get
         | useful changelogs for app updates.
        
         | computehyper wrote:
         | Hello I'm not sure if you can help but I made a post on here as
         | well as a topic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42871613
        
         | schroeding wrote:
         | I also own a 4a - the amount of hoops Google performed to
         | explicitly prevent downgrades for (only) the 4a by removing all
         | old Android images (and only for it) leads me to fear your
         | charitable view is true. Only the tinyest sliver of customers
         | would ever try to downgrade / reflash their phone, it IMO
         | doesn't make sense to do this if they just want to increase
         | sales a bit. And then again, why only for the 4a.
         | 
         | Which, should it be true, would make the lack of explanation
         | from Google _horrible and asinine_. If (and this is a big if,
         | it 's all speculation, because Google doesn't open their mouth)
         | there is a hardware fault with the battery, I would very much
         | like to know outright as a customer, no matter the PR damage
         | for Google.
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | "Either of these are terrible. At no point has Google came out
         | and stated -why- they're pushing this update in the first
         | place."
         | 
         | As I can still remember the days of software before "updates",
         | I am still baffled by the always unsolicited "advice" amounting
         | to "always update" without even considering what's in an
         | "update". This "advice" is everywhere. Software quality control
         | is at all-time lows I guess. Then came "automatic updates",
         | decreasing the chance of computer user discretion even more,
         | effectively removing user choice, i.e., case-by-case decision-
         | making.
         | 
         | Perhaps some computer users, the rare ones who do not routinely
         | follow unsolicited "advice" blindly, might respond to the
         | question of updating with something like, "What choice do I
         | have?" That there is no meaningful choice, or perception
         | thereof, in deciding whether to install an "update" is not a
         | coincidence, methinks.
         | 
         | Maybe updating is a gamble. There are winners and losers. On
         | several occasions, I have won by not updating, i.e., blindly
         | installing more code from so-called "tech" company. Other times
         | I have gotten burned by updating. It seems that quite often the
         | "updates" include code that serves me no benefit and in fact
         | reduces the computer's utility to me. Meanwhile, it might
         | increase utility for others or for the so-called "tech" company
         | that collects data and sells ad services. One size does not fit
         | all. Sometimes the losses can outweigh the gains.
         | 
         | Hopefully there is a lawsuit filed over this Pixel 4a "update".
         | Through discovery we may be able to learn what happened.
        
       | ptspts wrote:
       | Is it possible to decline this update on the UI of an internet-
       | connected Pixel 4a?
       | 
       | Mine has already updated, and I'm wondering if I had a chance to
       | say no.
        
         | KORraN wrote:
         | I'm getting prompts to restart in order to update. So far (~2
         | weeks), I was able to dismiss them.
        
       | AcerbicZero wrote:
       | As soon as they dropped the Nexus line, things went downhill
       | fast. IMO the nexus 5 was peak android.
        
         | clircle wrote:
         | Concur, switched to iPhone around this time, as Android just
         | started to feel like a knock off iOS rather than an
         | alternative.
        
           | nixosbestos wrote:
           | I'm sorry, but what? iOS and Android couldn't be more
           | different, and if anything iOS has converged toward Android.
           | Meanwhile my friend that likes to act smug about iOS has all
           | but given up the gambit. My Pixel 9 Pro takes far better
           | pictures, gets same or better battery life, and can _crazy_
           | things like upload or download photos to Lightroom without
           | needing to _manually keep the screen on_. Or you know,
           | background tasks in general.
        
       | bmaupin wrote:
       | I'm trying to figure out what the actual latest update is doing
       | regarding the battery. I found an update to the kernel binary but
       | it doesn't seem the source has been updated.
       | 
       | Can I submit a GPL request to Google to get the kernel source?
       | 
       | https://github.com/bmaupin/pixel4a-battery-research
        
         | kam wrote:
         | I also looked around AOSP and found the commit for the battery
         | alert icon [1], but no kernel source.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/...
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | If you own a device, you're entitled to a copy of all GPL
         | software that came with it, including some build tools.
         | However, if the diminished battery performance comes from some
         | kind of firmware update for an embedded microcontroller, you're
         | probably out of luck there, unless that controller also runs
         | GPL software.
         | 
         | It's possible the changes you're looking for are already listed
         | on one of these repos:
         | https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/sunfish-sepol...
         | https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/sunfish-kerne...
         | https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/sunfish/
         | 
         | (sunfish is the codename for the Pixel 4a)
        
           | bmaupin wrote:
           | I looked through all the sunfish repos first, which is how I
           | found this:
           | https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/sunfish-
           | kerne...
           | 
           | But apparently sunfish-kernel only contains binaries.
           | 
           | Given there's an update to Image.lz4, that seems there's an
           | update to the kernel. I also compared the binary to the
           | previous version and found some new strings possibly related
           | to battery charging profile.
           | 
           | Next I checked out the source using Google's documentation
           | but the latest commit is here: https://android.googlesource.c
           | om/kernel/msm/+/refs/heads/and...
           | 
           | But maybe I'm looking in the wrong place.
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | If those pre-compiled binaries aren't based on GPL
             | software, I don't think you'll have much luck getting their
             | sources.
             | 
             | Android's source code is a maze of branches and tags,
             | unfortunately. The change can have been made in the generic
             | cross-device kernel tree, or it could've been a separate
             | module, or it could've been a binary.
             | 
             | One thing you could consider is checking out the kernel for
             | a project like LineageOS: https://github.com/LineageOS/andr
             | oid_device_xiaomi_sm6150-co... They usually pull+filter
             | changes from upstream. For instance, these changes may be
             | of interest: https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/andro
             | id_device_xiao... https://review.lineageos.org/c/LineageOS/
             | android_device_xiao... These kernels are used for a variety
             | of devices with similar hardware, so not all changes have
             | anything to do with the Pixel 4a, but it could prove useful
             | in your search.
        
               | bmaupin wrote:
               | Image.lz4 is definitely a Linux kernel, and it's
               | definitely changed:
               | https://android.googlesource.com/device/google/sunfish-
               | kerne...
               | 
               | Would changes to external closed-source binary files
               | change the kernel image itself? There are kernel modules
               | in that commit but it looks to me like they all come
               | directly from here:
               | https://developers.google.com/android/drivers
               | 
               | Google does provide detailed instructions for downloading
               | all sources for the kernel, and I didn't see any changes
               | since 2023 to any source files:
               | https://source.android.com/docs/setup/
               | 
               | Thanks for the extra places to look. I'll check them out.
        
         | NotPractical wrote:
         | If you're reversing this: I was curious if Google determines if
         | your device is "affected" using the phone's serial, or the
         | battery's serial. I've seen reports that people who replace the
         | battery manually outside of the program still experience
         | diminished performance. But of course that could just be
         | because they replaced their defective battery with another
         | defective battery.
        
           | bmaupin wrote:
           | I'm going through the kernel with Ghidra but not very good at
           | it and not having much luck.
           | 
           | I do have an idea about what it's checking to determine if a
           | battery is affected, but I don't have enough data yet to know
           | if it's just a coincidence.
        
             | NotPractical wrote:
             | I don't imagine something like this would be implemented in
             | the kernel? Might help to search system apps/binaries for
             | the string displayed in the notification alert:
             | https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nathan-
             | contino/images/main...
        
               | bmaupin wrote:
               | Why not? The kernel seems to handle low level charging
               | and battery logic, for example: https://android.googlesou
               | rce.com/kernel/msm/+/refs/heads/and...
               | 
               | I'm not hoping to argue, only to learn. This isn't my
               | area of expertise.
        
       | tomerbd wrote:
       | no more unlimited photos upload for you.
        
       | delfinom wrote:
       | Hopefully people opted out of the binding arbitration for the
       | phone so they can join a class action, right?
       | 
       | Lol, I opt out on every new pixel phone
        
       | debo_ wrote:
       | If it helps, I ran my 3a on Pixel Experience up until ~6 months
       | ago, and it worked great. It's like having the exact same phone
       | with extended upgrades.
       | 
       | I gave it away to someone who needed it more and upgraded to an
       | 8a. My mission with this phone is to use it for 10 years.
        
       | Shekelphile wrote:
       | I am surprised there are even any functioning 4a's left to begin
       | with. Google intentionally designs major components of these
       | phones to break within a year or two of normal use, like using
       | extremely cheap NAND that fails commonly, bricking the phone.
        
       | nickpinkston wrote:
       | I've had software bugs / issues with various Pixel phones
       | (original, 4, 6, now 7) for years, and I'm unsure why I'm such a
       | masochist.
       | 
       | Anyone else have this problem? Is it well known?
        
       | framtidsljus wrote:
       | Another Pixel 4A user here. Still haven't installed the marvelous
       | update. But it'll be installed the next time I reboot. No way to
       | stop it.
       | 
       | I have never had any battery issues. Now Google wants to
       | effectively brick my beloved phone? And giving me $50 for the
       | trouble. What. The. F. is going on.
       | 
       | I've requested the $50, shall be paid out within 18 days they
       | say.
       | 
       | So sad. I really like (soon liked, probably) my 4a.
        
       | zargon wrote:
       | Does/will GrapheneOS ship this new firmware? My Pixel 4a needed a
       | new battery. I ordered the kit from ifixit, but was worried about
       | possibly breaking the screen during replacement and being without
       | a phone. So I bought a used iPhone XS to try out Apple-land. My
       | plan was to put GrapheneOS on the Pixel 4a and decide eventually
       | if my next phone would be a new Pixel with GrapheneOS or a new
       | iPhone.
       | 
       | Since then this whole debacle has unfolded. GrapheneOS's
       | installation instructions say that it updates the phone's
       | firmware to the latest early in the installation process.
       | GrapheneOS's releases page has a "2025012701" release for Pixel
       | 4a. But the release notes don't have any mention of Pixel 4a
       | since version 2023100300. I'm trying to figure out if GrapheneOS
       | has actually updated their Pixel 4a image since then, and whether
       | it would install the battery breaking firmware.
        
       | yread wrote:
       | I was in the market and wanted to go for Pixel8 pro. This charade
       | turned me completely anti-google and I'm not even considering it
       | even though camera is the most important attribute of the phone
       | for me.
        
       | jerome-jh wrote:
       | Contrary to was is said in the article, the 50$/100$ compensation
       | was announced shortly before the update. It is no compensation
       | for the mess they caused.
       | 
       | I still have not restarted my phone since the update. But my wife
       | has and her phone does not hold charge for a day, compared to 48h
       | before the update. Battery percentage gone completely unreliable.
       | She's only doing slow charges since then in an attempt to have
       | battery management chip somehow recover. Hard to see what they
       | tried to "fix"
        
       | Halan wrote:
       | I am done suggesting pixel phones to my family elders.
       | Refurbished iPhones is the way to go
        
       | roesel wrote:
       | The pixel 4a battery life saga was what made both me and my
       | entire extended family never even consider buying a pixel phone
       | again (and move to Samsung or iPhones).
       | 
       | Google denied the issues existed forever, then shipped a fix that
       | somehow made them even worse, and made the phone unusable for
       | years. I hope we were not the only ones.
        
       | zer0x4d wrote:
       | Has there been a single Pixel with no boot loop, battery,
       | reception, or otherwise some other major issue?
       | 
       | What is going on at the Pixel team??? They have probably single
       | handedly cost Google millions of dollars
        
       | computehyper wrote:
       | I'm semi homeless and the forced Pixel 4a battery update made my
       | phone unusable and I'm in a state of tears. What can I do? Reddit
       | deleted my post (I am hoping it's not because of Google
       | employees)
       | 
       | I don't want to get too long into what happened in my life, but I
       | had a Pixel 4a and everything was running great. Even when I was
       | on the streets homeless I was able to charge it. I'm still
       | struggling in and out, and apparently there was an update that
       | came automatically to my phone. I checked and talked to live
       | support in the library and they said it was just a battery update
       | and it will last a bit less. That wasn't a big deal I thought but
       | now the update came and my battery went from many hours to maybe
       | half an hour now and doesn't charge at all or very slowly. I have
       | interviews and some other small jobs that I have to do and just
       | hard life right now and I do not have any money for this. I am a
       | bit emotional so I asked while tearing up to Google support why
       | they did this and I can't afford this my life is in shambles but
       | they didn't help me. Even with the battery replacement I do not
       | live near any local shops and mailing it in would not be possible
       | for my situation. I bought this phone when my life was good and I
       | only like this one and want to use this one.
       | 
       | All my stuff is on here and I don't know too much about phones so
       | I just want this to work. I don't have money to fix this. I feel
       | like the phone will die any second. What can be done? I didn't
       | know they would do this. My life just keeps getting worse... I
       | always feared my phone getting stolen on the streets but never
       | thought Google would steal my phone.
       | 
       | What can I do? I don't have much minutes or data and can't afford
       | it, is there a number I can call Google directly? I don't want to
       | play with the phone and do anything weird my life is on it and
       | can't back it up.
       | 
       | Thank you all.
        
       | tripdout wrote:
       | Has anyone gone through that firmware update and seen what
       | changed? What exactly are they doing to improve battery
       | performance/reliability?
       | 
       | I would guess just down clocking the CPU or something.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | _I 'm semi homeless and Google's forced update on the Pixel 4a
       | ruined it_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42871613
        
       | nickjj wrote:
       | I have a Google Pixel 4a and planned to use the phone until it
       | physically no longer worked. I loved it, especially with its
       | wired headphone jack and small size.
       | 
       | It has worked for 3+ years and held a charge for 2-3 days easily
       | until the other week when they pushed the battery patch. Now it
       | dies in a few hours with light usage.
       | 
       | I asked Google support on what will happen if I get a battery
       | replacement and it's still draining fast. They won't answer.
       | 
       | Google reps at a repair center said a battery replacement is
       | unlikely to fix the drain issue since the drain behavior is
       | attached to an OS update you can't opt out of.
       | 
       | This is really frustrating to be ignored by Google after they
       | essentially bricked a fully working device that I paid for.
       | 
       | This is a type of move where I'm tempted to de-Google myself over
       | this, including deleting my YouTube channel with 20k subs that
       | I've been regularly posting to for almost a decade.
       | 
       | My whole business (selling courses and contract work) depends on
       | SEO from Google and YouTube and I'm close to saying fuck it and
       | destroying all of that out of principle on how poorly they are
       | treating folks over this issue. I haven't made that decision yet
       | but it's close to be honest. Close enough that I'm openly posting
       | this message.
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | Stuff like this is part of why I stick with iPhone. The Pixel 4A
       | stopped receiving security updates just 3 years after release,
       | and rather than being direct about what battery changes were made
       | and providing reasonable pathways for people to replace
       | batteries, this happens.
       | 
       | Apple does stupid and shady stuff too, it is certainly not
       | perfect, but Google has always had a cultural attitude permeating
       | their organization since the beginning that wanted to avoid doing
       | any sort of real customer support, and preferenced boxing
       | customers into something kafkaesque over doing the right thing.
       | 
       | For all the dumb shit Apple has done, I can walk into any Apple
       | Store and talk to a person and get my problem resolved for a
       | nominal fee (if any), their devices get 5+ years of security
       | updates (usually closer to 7 years) and I upgrade before that
       | ends anyway for other reasons (typically about every 4-5 years),
       | in the interim my device "just works". I've effectively never had
       | a problem with an Apple device since I've switched. I was an
       | early adopter of Android, made my own customer ROMs and shared
       | them on XDA Developers Forum, and otherwise was big on Android,
       | but it became really clear to me very quickly that the app
       | ecosystem is a mess (security and otherwise), the core OS has
       | huge privacy and functional design issues, and Google as a
       | steward and a first-party handset manufacturer is not the company
       | you want to do business with.
       | 
       | This really sucks for everyone impacted, and I understand why
       | many many people (including my wife) choose to stay on Android,
       | but you should really give some thought to this. What do you
       | /actually/ do every day with your phone, and what would better
       | serve you? As someone who wants to spend as little time on my
       | phone as possible, and I use it as a tool, that needs to actually
       | work when I need it, and I travel often, iPhone is clearly a more
       | reliable choice.
        
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