[HN Gopher] Svelte 5 and the Future of Frameworks: A Chat with R...
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Svelte 5 and the Future of Frameworks: A Chat with Rich Harris
Author : ulrischa
Score : 61 points
Date : 2025-01-28 19:53 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.smashingmagazine.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.smashingmagazine.com)
| pickle-wizard wrote:
| I recently started on a frontend project using Svelte, knowing
| nothing about frontend development. I've found it very easy to
| use. I had a few failed attempts at this project in the past
| using React, but I found it quickly overwhelming.
|
| The tutorials on the website are excellent and that was all I
| needed to get started.
| rykuno wrote:
| Svelte(kit) renewed my love for web development. It gets out of
| the way when i want it to, is build on web standards so i'm not
| stuck on annoying "gotchas", and has all the tools I need to
| build something without pulling in 20 dependencies just to build
| a basic app.
|
| After being a skeptic of svelte 5, its fully captured me.
| bunsenhoneydew wrote:
| A team I work very closely with as an architect has ditched React
| in favour of Svelte and the team love it. Everyone prefers it to
| React and finds it easier and more productive to use.
| infecto wrote:
| I love love love Svelte/Sveltekit. I am an experienced backend
| engineer and this is the first time I have worked in a FE
| framework that just clicked.
|
| What I like:
|
| - Not a whole lot of magic syntax.
|
| - The structure of files feels like I am building a backend app,
| its quite logical and easy to parse through.
|
| - Easy to get up and running, I am sure the decisions exist but I
| struggle historically with all the sidecar products that can be
| added into the frontend framework.
|
| - It combines the beauty of native JS/TS with svelte. I can
| hydrate a store with my own hand rolled api calls.
|
| - There is not a whole lot going on from a API/user perspective.
| I have stores and routes which are built into the folder
| structure. I am sure there is more but that gets me to a useful
| MVP.
| ptsd_dalmatian wrote:
| After years of react, svelte is such a relief. It's such a joy to
| do webdev again. Claude's auto completions in Cursor are often
| not great though.
| ggregoire wrote:
| I've yet to find a problem with React that would justify learning
| one of those new frameworks. I know it's popular to say React is
| bad on the internet, but have been using it for 10 years now and
| it's still going strong in my opinion.
| rk06 wrote:
| UseEffect(), dependency tracking, too much re-renders??
|
| Problems galore in react, you should try out new js frameworks.
| Atleast vue and solid, to see what else is on the table
| codinhood wrote:
| There are definitely problems with react, but I think his
| point was that they're not big enough to justify a change.
|
| Though I agree trying other frameworks is a good practice.
| See what you're missing, or understand your preferred
| framework better.
| mcv wrote:
| Every framework has its shortcomings, and React just as much so
| as any other. Learning other frameworks is always worthwhile.
| I've done Angular, Vue, React, and am currently looking into
| Svelte.
| xrd wrote:
| The problems aren't with React itself. The problems are
| external to React. But, that's a huge problem.
|
| You need to use a separate library for CSS with React. Svelte
| has the best way to deal with CSS built in. Which CSS library
| do you choose for your React project? There are so many
| libraries to consider, and so many bugs in each of those
| libraries.
|
| You need to use a separate state management library with React.
| Svelte has state management built in. Which state management
| library do you choose for your React project? There are so many
| to consider, and so many bugs.
|
| People think they want to use React because of the "ecosystem."
| But, they don't realize that React coerces you to use an
| ecosystem, an ecosystem that is full of buggy software and
| those bugs create impossible permutations of configuration
| issues and bugs (see Create React App). Bugs are not specific
| to React at all, all software has bugs. But, React forces you
| to use an ecosystem, and that's a bad thing. I write a lot of
| Svelte code with very few external libraries.
|
| React does give you job security fixing all those bugs. I'll
| give you that. It is a wise career choice.
|
| Svelte 5 is a big change. But, today, I refactored a bit of
| reactive code (which talks to a server and uses async code)
| inside a single template into an external shared component.
| That component has reactive code that can be shared across
| Svelte UI components. I could do that before with stores, but I
| had to be careful about how to use the reactivity. This new
| component isolates the reactivity in the right way and shares
| it in the right way. And, that share component is testable. It
| is an incredible experience when you get it.
| tobr wrote:
| I've been using Svelte for several years, but haven't had much
| time to dive into the many changes in 5.
|
| Maybe someone here can shed light on something about runes that
| feels very off to me. The rune is on the wrong side of the equal
| sign? Like: let counter = $state(0);
|
| Looks like a reactive value assigned to a variable, but that's
| not at all what's going on. It's actually a reactive variable
| initialized to 0. So, for example, despite what you'd expect you
| can't even move the $state call into a utility function if you'd
| have some reason to. Very counterintuitive to me, and not really
| touched upon in the docs as far as I've seen, but I have to
| assume there's some practical reason why they did it this way.
|
| I remember Svelte 2 (or 1? Can't remember) had some weird things
| like this as well, where you'd think you could do something based
| on your experience from JavaScript but I just wasn't supported.
| The label syntax in Svelte 3 was pretty brilliant because it was
| a clear indication that you shouldn't expect normal JS rules to
| apply. It did have other problems that they appear to have fixed
| though.
| nhumrich wrote:
| I loved svelte. But svelte5 seems to be a bit of turn off. It's
| not even the runes. Slots was hands down the best feature of
| svelte. And they deprecated it I still can't for the life of me
| figure out how the new way is supposed to work. The migration
| docs are very limited. And it's super weird that the parent has
| to intentionally render children instead of a slots? Also, why
| deprecate the on:event syntax?
| msie wrote:
| All these frameworks just tell me there is a big problem with the
| way browsers deliver web apps.
| greenchair wrote:
| Plus they continue reinventing themselves because that initial
| design just wasn't good enough.
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