[HN Gopher] Instagram deals reveal Meta is offering TikTok creat...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Instagram deals reveal Meta is offering TikTok creators as much as
       $300k to post
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2025-01-28 19:29 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.businessinsider.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.businessinsider.com)
        
       | belter wrote:
       | https://archive.is/yhQHI
        
       | grajaganDev wrote:
       | "Meta has been contacting creators and their teams with deals
       | offering thousands of dollars in exchange for exclusive video
       | content posted to Instagram reels. The payouts described to
       | Business Insider ranged from $2,500 to $50,000 a month and
       | required the content to be exclusive to Instagram for three
       | months."
        
         | zakki wrote:
         | The problem is there are many accounts that will happily remix
         | the content and post to other platfrom, something like a
         | reaction content.
        
       | nemomarx wrote:
       | is there a good historical example of this strategy working? I
       | know platforms have tried paying for apps to be ported or etc and
       | it never seems to drum up organic interest sufficiently.
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | Kick has successfully lured some big Twitch streamers away with
         | incentives:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_(service)#Streaming_deals
         | 
         | And they seem to be trying to lure more people away by offering
         | more favorable revenue splits than YT/Twitch.
         | 
         | Of course this is all funded by online casino revenue, I don't
         | know if it would "work" without being able to light money on
         | fire. There are credible people out there insisting that Kick
         | is losing money and only exists to funnel new customers to
         | Stake's online gambling services.
        
           | jorams wrote:
           | > There are credible people out there insisting that Kick is
           | losing money and only exists to funnel new customers to
           | Stake's online gambling services.
           | 
           | This is trivial to determine without even needing to defer to
           | credible people: Its entire business model _outside of
           | funneling people into gambling addiction_ is taking a 5%
           | split of subscription revenue. This while it is paying Amazon
           | for the actual (expensive) streaming tech[1], in a market
           | that 's notoriously hard to be profitable in for companies
           | taking both a larger cut and running ads.
           | 
           | [1]: https://aws.amazon.com/ivs/
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Didn't Substack pay some big names early on to use the
         | platform?
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | Spotify's podcasts and Joe Rogan? SiriusXM and Howard Stern?
         | Those were superstars with undue influence though.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | From what I've seen in r/TikTok (curiosity has kept me going back
       | to seeing how users are reacting everyday) they really hate Meta.
       | They're so upset, they don't trust that the current
       | administration wont taint the algorithm of TikTok as well. It's
       | really wild to see the varying views.
       | 
       | With that in mind, I would not be surprised if the top TikTok
       | users will not take the free money. I mean its free money. If it
       | actually works is another story though. Meta has been trying to
       | force growth in new social media apps several times now, and its
       | not really working, social media apps are basically generational.
       | 
       | I feel bad for them I grew up on the internet, in my day it was
       | MySpace and a few other sites, I can only imagine the outrage I
       | would have felt if they knocked off one of my social communities
       | I frequented as a teen.
        
         | grajaganDev wrote:
         | Meta is asking for exclusivity.
         | 
         | It is important for influencers to diversify across platforms
         | so I don't think this is a good deal.
        
           | plorg wrote:
           | I assume any one person's decision would rest on some kind of
           | risk perception that TikTok becomes/remains non-viable for
           | the given period of exclusivity.
        
             | grajaganDev wrote:
             | Yes, which is why I am advocating for diversification.
             | 
             | If your livelihood depends on a single company, you exist
             | at their pleasure.
        
               | settsu wrote:
               | This has been an unending source of frustration for me
               | when I have followed someone on any of the algorithmic
               | platforms vs. self-publishing.
               | 
               | So often many will invariably end up letting the place
               | where they predominant publish to dictate what and how
               | they produce whatever it is they output. (I was fighting
               | hard not to say the word "content"...)
               | 
               | Which I despise but also understand: you do what anyone
               | with a job does to keep the money flowing until someone
               | in the relationship decides to end the arrangement.
               | 
               | (Now that I think about it, self-publishing is hardly
               | immune to that. It just means perhaps the creator's
               | motives could be more varied and fluid?)
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | It must've _really_ pissed off Zuckerberg when for the first
           | few months every popular reel had the TikTok logo and
           | soundbite at the end.
        
         | CommanderData wrote:
         | Taint the algorithm away from what exactly?
        
           | dns_snek wrote:
           | Away from genuinely interesting, personalized
           | recommendations, to be replaced with depressing rage-bait
           | algorithm of sites like Twitter.
        
             | Salgat wrote:
             | I made the switch to YouTube shorts when tiktok went down
             | and my experience is largely the same, if anything I'm
             | seeing more educational material on electronics and
             | programming which I enjoy. No ragebait yet unlike TikTok.
             | No idea about instagram reels though.
        
           | brendoelfrendo wrote:
           | The TikTok algorithm is generally seen, by its users, as
           | being really good. Once you've spent some time there and your
           | For You Page really gets going, it really feels like it's For
           | You. And the algorithm there doesn't seem to penalize people
           | doing original reporting, current events explainers, science
           | content and educational content, musical performances,
           | tutorials, etc., alongside typical social media stuff like
           | viral challenges and pet videos or whatever. The general
           | "vibe" is that TikTok feels more "authentic," while Reels is
           | mostly manufactured content (dance videos, AI slop, "funny"
           | compilations, lots and lots of ads) and YouTube Shorts is
           | where comedy skits and reuploads of TikTok content go to die.
        
           | fetus8 wrote:
           | Meta's algorithm on IG has gone so far down the toilet over
           | the years. Before I deleted my account last year, I'd have to
           | scroll through 5-7 sponsored posts before I'd actually see
           | something from someone I actually follow. Nevermind the
           | amount of regular old ads that were inserted into my feed.
        
         | ceroxylon wrote:
         | If they're already getting money from selling their attention
         | and being constantly surveilled, it will take a much larger
         | temptation to move to a different hypnosis platform.
        
         | beastman82 wrote:
         | > not be surprised if the top TikTok users will not take the
         | free money
         | 
         | This is a double negative. It means you would be surprised if
         | they take the free money.
         | 
         | Judging by the following text I think you mean you _would_ be
         | surprised.
        
           | bennettnate5 wrote:
           | > This is a double negative.
           | 
           | Not necessarily--one can be unsurprised at both the decision
           | to take or not to take money, the two aren't mutually
           | exclusive. I'm not surprised if it's not cloudy outside on a
           | given day, but that doesn't mean I _am_ surprised if it is. I
           | 'm just not surprised by general day-to-day changes in
           | weather.
           | 
           | The default surprising behavior here is to refuse $300k just
           | to post on a different social media site; given the context
           | of /r/TikTok, the parent comment not surprised that they
           | don't take the money.
        
         | nipponese wrote:
         | It's hard for me to see influencers of today as organic users
         | of the past.
         | 
         | Many modern users start their journey as a business though the
         | content may appear innocent or authentic.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | > _It's hard for me to see influencers of today as organic
           | users of the past._
           | 
           | They're not, and never have been. Nor are they innocent -
           | they're corrupting and destroying the platforms they're on.
           | And, for all the talk on authenticity, they're the direct
           | opposite of it.
           | 
           | I remain bewildered by the continued social acceptance of
           | this work. We're talking about people who openly accept and
           | refer to themselves using the term "influencer" - a word
           | that's directly synonymous to "manipulator". How much more
           | in-your-face do they have to be about telegraphing malicious
           | intent?
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Addictive brainrot is a powerful force. Like cigarettes.
             | You could put a skull and crossbones on the packaging and
             | call them "Marlboro Tumors" and people would still line up
             | to buy them. Social Media consumers know what they are
             | doing is bad--they can't stop because they are addicted.
        
         | ideashower wrote:
         | I think a lot of those offered would understand how people on
         | TikTok would turn on them for selling out. They're not stupid,
         | quite the opposite. I detest how the political landscape of the
         | internet has evolved to such an extent that it now influences
         | our decisions about posting or not posting content online.
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | > From what I've seen in r/TikTok (curiosity has kept me going
         | back to seeing how users are reacting everyday) they really
         | hate Meta. They're so upset, they don't trust that the current
         | administration wont taint the algorithm of TikTok as well. It's
         | really wild to see the varying views.
         | 
         | "I don't like people in government dictating what I see online.
         | My stand against it will be to create an account for an online
         | service run by a company based in the People's Republic of
         | China."
         | 
         | EDIT:
         | 
         | Downvote all you want, that's what they're doing.
        
         | mvdtnz wrote:
         | It's not "free money". Posting exclusively on Meta's apps means
         | missing out on the biggest portion of their audience. For a
         | very lucrative channel they could be giving up much more than
         | they gain.
        
       | area51org wrote:
       | Stupid question, maybe, but IANAL: is this even legal? Isn't it
       | _illegal_ to pay others to bury your competitor?
        
         | grajaganDev wrote:
         | I think it is legal but it risks anti-trust scrutiny.
         | 
         | Google pays Apple tens of billions to be the default iPhone
         | search engine - this seems quite similar.
        
           | spencerflem wrote:
           | Or would, if the anti trust people did their jobs
        
             | grajaganDev wrote:
             | Yup and we will be seeing even less enforcement going
             | forward.
        
         | martinky24 wrote:
         | How is this any different than the a sports league giving
         | exclusive rights to their product to a specific network...?
        
         | redeux wrote:
         | No it's definitely not illegal. Companies hire consultants,
         | influencers, contractors all the time to help them improve
         | their product, brand, positioning etc. It could be an issue if
         | the influencers have a contract with TikTok and Meta encourages
         | them to break it. Then it becomes tortious interference. Also,
         | IANAL but I took a business ethics class in college that
         | covered this topic.
        
         | ru552 wrote:
         | Of course it's legal. They offer you money to exclusively post
         | on their platform. Joe Rogan got paid to exclusively podcast on
         | spotify. All of the talking heads on TV news are paid to
         | exclusively be on their specific channel (ABC,NBC,FOX,etc.) The
         | twitch streamer, Ninja, that got paid to move from twitch to
         | Microsft's failed Mixer platform, etc. etc..
        
           | singleshot_ wrote:
           | This is an extremely low-quality answer which in no way
           | correctly represents the complexity underlying the question.
           | 
           | GP would need to talk to an antitrust expert to learn more
           | useful information concerning the distinction between being a
           | monopoly, and illegally leveraging monopoly power. I am not
           | such a person, so I'm not going to say more here.
        
         | quickthrowman wrote:
         | Contracts are a fundamental part of common law, why would it be
         | illegal to enter one?
         | 
         | Also, it's a big leap to prove that exclusive agreements to
         | post on a specific platform is attempting to bury a competitor,
         | TikTok (and every other company) is free to offer exclusivity
         | contracts as well.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | If you phrase it like that, sure. But I'm positive that's not
         | how meta phrased it.
         | 
         | Everyone at Meta needs to take a "communicating with care"
         | course every year which exactly trains you to hide your true
         | intentions and not leave a paper trail of anti-competitive
         | statements.
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | Anyone else concerned that Americans are embracing Chinese
       | technology? A bit before Tiktok went down the app store showed
       | that Chinese "Red," Tiktok type of app was at the top of the
       | charts. Why wouldnt American users flock to American apps like
       | Snapchat, YouTube, etc? Is it a bratty thing ... govt took away
       | what I was using and so Im going to go all in and only use
       | Chinese Tiktok competitors?
       | 
       | Also, with Threads at the top of the iPhone app store constantly
       | yet I dont know anyone who uses it .. makes me wonder is there a
       | way to gain the top positions in the app store? Either paying for
       | it and or gaming the system via massive army of bots?
        
         | bryanlarsen wrote:
         | Conversely, why wouldn't we expect the rest of the world to
         | abandon American technology? We have members of the current
         | administration in Germany stumping for AfD, and all of the
         | American tech giants are toeing the party line.
         | 
         | For the rest of the world, the risk and dangers of American
         | interference in their elections appears to be more present and
         | explicit than the dangers of Chinese interference.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | If that's their reasoning, then there's not much we can say
           | to change their minds.
           | 
           | After all, look at China's thriving, diverse political
           | environment.
        
             | g8oz wrote:
             | The impression for better or worse is that the U.S
             | interferes abroad far more than China, so they are a safer
             | bet.
        
             | ohjimny wrote:
             | I find it hard to empathize with your views that American
             | political life is healthy and democratic, and China is
             | corrupt and stagnant.
             | 
             | American imprisons 10 times as many of its citizens than
             | PRC. Most of these people are imprisoned for ideological
             | crimes ("Protestant norms say that you should not
             | intoxicate yourself") or political crimes ("our system
             | holds that no one is entitled to the necessities of human
             | life").
        
         | Micrococonut wrote:
         | People are very aware that American tech companies want to
         | control and exploit them as much as possible so there's really
         | no difference to them between a Chinese app and an American
         | app. Big tech trying to use its political power to force users
         | into their platforms is an assault on our freedoms. You call it
         | a bratty thing but I call it the only way the people have left
         | to protest the enshittification of their digital lives.
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | > People are very aware that American tech companies want to
           | control and exploit them as much as possible so there's
           | really no difference to them between a Chinese app and an
           | American app
           | 
           | I mean, if that is indeed their rationale, then our civics
           | education really does suck.
        
             | brendoelfrendo wrote:
             | Or, perhaps they have made a reasoned determination that
             | their own government does not represent their best
             | interests, and are less concerned about the impact a
             | foreign power thousands of miles away has on their lives.
        
               | lenerdenator wrote:
               | The ultimate goal for the foreign power is to impact
               | people thousands of miles away.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | less concerned not unconcerned. learn to read yourself
               | before lecturing people about education
        
               | lenerdenator wrote:
               | > less concerned not unconcerned
               | 
               | Giving a totalitarian regime access to the device that
               | more-or-less holds your entire life and acts as a perfect
               | surveillance portal to your every move decidedly falls
               | more on the unconcerned side of the scale.
               | 
               | Unless, of course, they didn't make a particularly
               | "reasoned" determination like you said.
               | 
               | > learn to read yourself before lecturing people about
               | education
               | 
               | Let's keep the ad hominem to a bare minimum.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Some of us consider the USA to be an authoritarian
               | regime. And without a doubt as someone living there they
               | have massively more influence over my life.
               | 
               |  _poof_ China has all my data - what do they do with it?
               | Vs the USA where there is documented proof that the NSA
               | was used against Vietnam War critics etc.
        
               | lenerdenator wrote:
               | > Some of us consider the USA to be an authoritarian
               | regime.
               | 
               | Some of us have a definition of "authoritarian" that is
               | different from that of reality. I've lost count of the
               | number of political dissent posts I've seen towards both
               | sides of the political spectrum in the United States on
               | American-based social media platforms.
               | 
               | And if authoritarianism is really a problem, why double
               | down on the governments you give your data to?
               | 
               | > And without a doubt as someone living there they have
               | massively more influence over my life.
               | 
               | Compared to the influence that the Chinese government has
               | over the Chinese people, it's minor. That also goes for
               | the governments of most places China has strong ties
               | with. Strengthening their sphere of influence in the US
               | is not the act of those who have concerns over
               | authoritarian regimes influencing their lives.
               | 
               | > poof China has all my data - what do they do with it?
               | 
               | They're a rather imaginative bunch when it comes to cyber
               | offensives, so let's imagine one ourselves.
               | 
               | They could scour your contacts and content for dissidents
               | abroad, using that information to inform those operating
               | one of their extralegal international "police stations"
               | as to their whereabouts. [0]
               | 
               | Now, let's stop imagining. Let's see what they have been
               | confirmed as actually doing with it.
               | 
               | They could collect geospatial data and combine that
               | information with other personal details to compromise the
               | security of people who work in sensitive places. This has
               | actually led a number of nations, including Norway,
               | Belgium, Canada, New Zealand, and the UK to ban TikTok
               | from being installed on devices with access to government
               | networks [1]
               | 
               | It's worth remembering that the US only banned the TikTok
               | app - they could have continued operating in the US
               | through a mobile webpage, but decided not to and threw a
               | fit until Trump rearranged (perhaps extralegally) the law
               | banning the app. Why? Because apps give _far_ more access
               | to devices than webpages, which have sandboxed processes
               | and other checks on what code can access. If keeping
               | American eyes on TikTok was the one and only goal, that
               | app would have been a sacrifice that they were willing to
               | make. The fact that they _had_ to have the app tells me
               | that they may have wanted the extra access that native
               | apps afford.
               | 
               | > Vs the USA where there is documented proof that the NSA
               | was used against Vietnam War critics etc.
               | 
               | I'm not saying the American intelligence apparatus has
               | clean hands. If that's the concern, then again, _cut back
               | on social media and apps that collect unknown quantities
               | and qualities of data_ , instead of opening up more
               | accounts to totalitarian governments that have a long
               | history of using censorship and surveillance in a very
               | straightforward way to achieve their political aims.
               | 
               | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_
               | servic... [1]https://www.context.news/big-tech/us-tiktok-
               | ban-which-other-...
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | Hey I'm all for not using either, that's what I do. And I
               | get banning it on government phones. They ought to ban
               | almost everyhring on those, but especially foreign
               | controlled apps. And I don't like what China does to
               | their citizens either.
               | 
               | But you'll never convince me that the main reason for the
               | ban wasn't to replace Chinese propaganda with American /
               | Billionaire propaganda and tbh that one's less charming.
               | 
               | And if your imaginative worst case scenario is that they
               | use my data to root out and extrajudiciously kill ex-
               | Chinese dissidents in America then idk why that would be
               | a problem for me since I don't know any of those. I do
               | know some American activists, though.
               | 
               | I can easily invent way more damning fantasies of what
               | the US Govt could do to me, a US citizen, if they had an
               | admin willing to subvert constitutional norms and more
               | visibly use the PRISM surveillance tools.
        
             | ohjimny wrote:
             | You think the purpose of civics education is to teach young
             | people to trust American big tech and the American
             | government above foreigners regardless of evidence??
        
           | abdullahkhalids wrote:
           | Zizek has a very interesting argument [1] that is perhaps
           | relevant here. (Lightly cleaned up transcript)
           | 
           | > Imagine you are a small girl or boy of, let's say, eight
           | years. It's Sunday afternoon and your father wants you to
           | visit your old grandmother. You, of course, detest it - she's
           | old, senile, whatever. But then, if you have an old
           | authoritarian father, he will tell you something like - and
           | this would be, as Alenka put it, a good thing to do - he will
           | tell you: "Listen, I don't care how you feel. Just do your
           | duty, go to your grandmother and behave there properly."
           | That's perfect, I claim, because you will retain your, let's
           | call it, inner freedom. You will be furious at your father,
           | but that's good for your long-term freedom.
           | 
           | > Now, what would a monster called post-modern permissive
           | father do? He would not give you an order, but he would have
           | told you something like this: "You only go to visit your
           | grandmother if you really want to. Just remember how much
           | your grandmother loves you." Now, a child is not an idiot,
           | and he or she will know perfectly what this order means.
           | Beneath the appearance of a free choice, it gives you a much
           | harsher order. The order is not only "you must go and visit
           | your grandmother," but "you must do it freely." You must
           | really wish to visit your grandmother.
           | 
           | > So you see, this nice example of how - and this is
           | basically what also Alenka described as that situation - "do
           | whatever you want," etc., where the apparent freedom of
           | choice masks a much harsher choice.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZoheZbxT6I
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | > Is it a bratty thing ... govt took away what I was using and
         | so Im going to go all in and only use Chinese Tiktok
         | competitors?
         | 
         | I wouldn't call it "bratty," but that is certainly part of it.
         | My impression of the situation is that yes, folks flocked to a
         | Chinese app because they were a) angry at the US government and
         | wanted to undermine the purpose of the TikTok ban; b) equally
         | angry at US social media services that are seen as being to
         | willing to acquiesce to the demands of the US government in
         | general and the current administration in particular, and c)
         | ultimately unconcerned about who has their data.
         | 
         | I have a hypothesis about my point c, which is that TikTok's
         | user population skews younger, and so we have a population of
         | social media users who grew up with the understanding that
         | their data and attention are packaged, sold, and analyzed by
         | anyone and everyone; they're not concerned about the
         | implications of giving data to China, and it strikes them as
         | hypocritical for the US government to spend decades on data
         | collection and only express concern when users decide to take
         | that data outside the the US sphere of influence.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | I agree with you. I actually had a nice group chat with some
         | family members about this particular thing recently. This stood
         | out in particular which my niece posted:
         | 
         | "The only thing China has ever done to me is sell me cheap
         | stuff, which is great because the main way people get money who
         | aren't rich are through jobs, and companies don't really want
         | to A) have employees and B) pay them anything. Companies are
         | controlling everything so everyone I know is poor and just
         | going to get poorer. I don't know how China is supposed to be
         | harming me through Tiktok. I don't know how China is going to
         | use my data to hurt me. Honestly I don't know why people want
         | data so badly when everyone's broke-why don't you already know
         | that. The only chinese stuff I see on Tiktok are people cooking
         | and burning incense. I would understand if I like worked for
         | the government but I work at a fast food place so ... what are
         | they gonna do? Get me fired from Mcdonalds? Lol you could have
         | multiple felonies and still work at Mcdonalds. Now they're
         | gonna take Tiktok away like they take everything else and it's
         | stupid. The other stuff sucks-Facebook is for old people and
         | dumb minion memes, I keep seeing dumb alpha male crap on
         | YouTube, and Instagram doesn't show me anything new after
         | scrolling on it for ten minutes. Why do like 3 companies have
         | to control everything?"
         | 
         | Lots of fallacies and issues with those statements. We had lots
         | of conversation after that. But I think that shows the general
         | mood among those who are sticking with Tiktok. A lot of the
         | value is that it's simply not Meta.
        
           | spencerflem wrote:
           | kinda agree with everything there tbh
        
           | brendoelfrendo wrote:
           | I don't really see the fallacies and issues in what your
           | niece said, sounds like she's got a good head on her
           | shoulders.
        
         | 65 wrote:
         | I think the whole Deepseek fiasco revealed a lot about where
         | the American technology world is at, which is funneling huge
         | sums of money into tech monopolies. If Chinese companies
         | disrupt American monopolies, to me that's a good thing.
        
         | andrewla wrote:
         | I mean, the company happens to be Chinese but I don't think
         | that's why anyone is using it. The "little red book" app was a
         | flash in the pan because it was hyped as a successor, but the
         | download charts are ephemeral.
         | 
         | The reason that TikTok is winning is because it is a superior
         | app in pretty much every way to its competitors (reels or
         | shorts). The UI is clean and simple for producers and
         | consumers, the interactions are all well done, and most of all,
         | the content is all there, with some cross-posted to the others
         | but mostly for larger channels that can afford to invest in
         | boosting their reach.
         | 
         | You can bemoan its addictiveness or whatever, but don't pretend
         | that it's a bad app that people use because they are desperate
         | for Chinese propaganda. It's so much better that the US
         | government is actively trying to kill it so that the domestic
         | alternatives have a chance.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Better be Mr Beast level to get that
        
         | ohjimny wrote:
         | Mr Beast is orders of magnitude above that. He spends around
         | $1m a week on his YouTube videos. His Amazon show has a nine
         | figure budget.
        
       | zombiwoof wrote:
       | Makes me really want to work for TikTok
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | I'm always bearish on social networks that have to poach
       | creators, it's a sign that there's no underlying culture or
       | authenticity. A related case is Twitch which people have been
       | relatively negative about, but it seems pretty telling to me that
       | every time a creator leaves it's generally for a fat contract,
       | and the moment that runs out they're immediately back.
       | 
       | I'd always bet on the platforms that have a natural draw and
       | appeal even with worse payment, and TikTok is one such case. It
       | seems kind of painful honestly how hard Meta or Youtube with
       | shorts have tried to emulate it while it's pretty obvious they're
       | out of touch in some way.
       | 
       | Facebook and even Zuckerberg himself personally with his cringy
       | rebranding has increasingly that "How do you do fellow kids"
       | energy to him
        
       | fumar wrote:
       | I am surprised about the lack of alternatives. I grew up during
       | live journal and Myspace days so it felt like new communities
       | were developing all the time. Don't young folks want to rebel
       | against the status quo (including tik tok)?
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | You couldn't avoid interacting with the rest of the tech stack
         | that provided access to Myspace. You can use TikTok, even have
         | a career on it, and never know a single thing about the web,
         | internet, tech, etc. This is increasingly the normal
         | experience. There's no built in way to learn there's other
         | possibilities unless they happen upon a video about it.
        
         | shortrounddev2 wrote:
         | No I think young people want to be a part of the status quo
         | more than anything.
        
         | hnthrow90348765 wrote:
         | There's a huge moat with getting the critical mass of users to
         | produce/consume content to make everyone follow-on to the
         | platform before your startup cash runs out. That all depends on
         | technical competency to make and keep it smooth, on top of
         | offering enough to creators and advertisers to be competitive.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | They like attention more
        
       | bastardoperator wrote:
       | They could post their content to instagram today and "make" money
       | themselves. I do a little bit of advertising for some projects I
       | work on, we cut instagram because it has the lowest of all
       | traffic. I have videos getting 180K-10K views hundreds of likes
       | and comments on some platforms, 3 on instagram. It's not even
       | worth the effort...
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | Reels are reportedly easier to go viral for organic marketing
         | vs TT for <1 minute content. Assume you're talking about paid
         | ads
        
           | bastardoperator wrote:
           | All of our videos are under a minute. We have hundreds of
           | them. We have over a million views on TikTok and YT, and
           | almost nothing on Instagram. The interesting part is we did a
           | project awhile back on Instagram and we got tons of followers
           | but little engagement. This could all be antidotal and
           | something we're not doing right, but we didn't try cracking
           | some code on the other platforms, we upload and it mostly
           | does its thing.
        
             | cmdtab wrote:
             | What kind of content are you producing and whom are you
             | targeting as customer?
        
       | axegon_ wrote:
       | Nothing surprising. We are deep into the age of griefter economy
       | - make a cringey video - making a scene - whether it's an
       | argument between people or "owning someone", get people roiled up
       | against each other, start selling merch like shirts or a book
       | full of your "wisdom" and you are set for life. Tiktok is the
       | perfect platform for stuff like that with practically 0
       | regulation. Meta just wants a piece of that cake, simple as that.
       | 300k may as well be well worth it. The sad part is that
       | ultimately it is us, the users that end up suffering. A decade
       | ago science videos were thriving on YouTube and I loved it. These
       | days we are lucky if we get two videos out of hundreds if not
       | thousands of youtubers that used to push 40 minutes of videos
       | each every month. I don't blame them, I'd also find it utterly
       | demotivating to have a team of people and a month worth of work
       | from dawn till dusk every month just to get a microscopical
       | fraction of what some teen gets for shouting at a minecraft
       | screen for 30 minutes.
        
         | dns_snek wrote:
         | I think that in some ways, certain parts of TikTok feel like
         | the old YouTube. It's usually one person talking into a camera
         | about a subject they know a lot about and it's usually straight
         | to the point. Videos aren't as long as they're on YouTube but
         | there's a lot of 3-5 min long content.
        
         | uhoh-itsmaciek wrote:
         | https://nebula.tv/ is a nice YouTube alternative for that kind
         | of stuff (disclaimer: I'm mostly a subscriber for the music
         | content, so my perception may be skewed).
        
         | mvdtnz wrote:
         | I pine for an in-between world. My youtube feed and Watch Later
         | list is filled to the brim with 40-90 minute videos I'll likely
         | never get to. Youtube seems determined to push longer videos on
         | me. I'd much prefer more 8-15 minute videos which seem to be as
         | rare as hen's teeth. It feels like you either get 4 seconds or
         | 45 minutes. Nothing in between.
        
         | elevatedastalt wrote:
         | I think your point about the grift is well-put.
         | 
         | But I disagree with your comment about YouTube. I think YouTube
         | recommendations work extremely well, and I only see videos that
         | are related to the 5-6 topics I am exploring on YouTube in the
         | previous few weeks. And when I explore a new topic I start
         | seeing those recommendations instead.
         | 
         | I have never seen a Mr Beast video (or any other video by
         | similar hucksters) on my feed.
         | 
         | You do need to be logged in though. But I use Premium, so
         | that's a given.
        
           | ipdashc wrote:
           | Yeah, I thought it was odd to call out Youtube, especially
           | science videos in particular. To me it's always seemed
           | Youtube is one part of the internet that has managed to
           | maintain some decently sane bits among the brainrot. I'm not
           | even logged in half the time, but the recommendation
           | algorithm kicks quite well after a video or two, even in
           | incognito (after you make it past the whiplash of the
           | "default" home page, which is admittedly pretty nasty). My
           | sidebar is typically mostly edutainment type stuff
           | (AlphaPhoenix, Technology Connections, Applied Science,
           | NileRed...) and while it's not refined university-level
           | content or anything, it's quite alright. (And I'm confused
           | why the parent comment lamented the lack of science videos!
           | There's honestly so much neat stuff still being made today.
           | Heck, look at 3b1b.) Like you said, I never really see Mr.
           | Beast or alt-right pipeline stuff or anything like that. If
           | anything, maybe the other platforms could learn from Youtube
           | - I get the feeling they've cleaned up their algorithm in
           | recent years?
        
       | giarc wrote:
       | This is why any sale of Tiktok without the algorithm will fail.
       | The Chinese will just stand up another app with the TT algo and
       | just incentivize a ton of creators with big paycheques. The
       | eyeballs will follow, TT will die and we'll move onto the next
       | Chinese surveillance app. Hence why the US should have been more
       | broad in their law rather than target TT specifically.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | > the US should have been more broad in their law rather than
         | target TT specifically
         | 
         | This is already the case; the law doesn't just target TT, it is
         | applicable to other platforms too.
         | 
         | "It would ban social networking services within 270 days if
         | they are determined by the president of the United States and
         | relevant provisions to be a "foreign adversary controlled
         | application""[1]
         | 
         | [1]:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fo...
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | _edit:_ Parent comment previously stated simply that the law
           | didn 't target TikTok specifically.
           | 
           | Yes, it does.
           | 
           | https://www.govinfo.gov/bulkdata/PLAW/118/public/PLAW-118pub.
           | ..
           | 
           | > (i) ByteDance, Ltd.;
           | 
           | > (ii) TikTok;
           | 
           | > (iii) a subsidiary of or a successor to an entity
           | identified in clause (i) or (ii) that is controlled by a
           | foreign adversary; or
           | 
           | > (iv) an entity owned or controlled, directly or indirectly,
           | by an entity identified in clause (i), (ii), or (iii); or
           | 
           | It can be applied to others, but there's a process.
        
             | insane_dreamer wrote:
             | (iii) would be easy to show for any new Chinese app that
             | gets anywhere near as big as TT
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | No, not unless it has shared ownership/assets/employees
               | etc. with ByteDance/TikTok. A new Chinese app falls under
               | the later part of the law; there's more process
               | (Presidential assessment, declaration, and report to
               | Congress). ByteDance/TikTok specifically are deemed
               | already problematic in the law.
        
               | insane_dreamer wrote:
               | I didn't say there wouldn't be any process, but it's easy
               | to show since all media corporations in China are subject
               | to control by the CCP -- it's not a secret or difficult
               | to detect, and it doesn't necessarily involve identifying
               | shareholders.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | OK, but that's not _this_ part of the law; this part is
               | entirely specific to ByteDance and its TikTok subsidiary.
               | Non-ByteDance Chinese companies would fall under the
               | separate extra-process bit here:
               | 
               | > (B) a covered company that (i) is controlled by a
               | foreign adversary; and (ii) that is determined by the
               | President to present a significant threat to the national
               | security of the United States following the issuance of a
               | public notice proposing such determination; and (II) a
               | public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30
               | days before such determination, describing the specific
               | national security concern involved and containing a
               | classified annex and a description of what assets would
               | need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture.
        
         | biohcacker84 wrote:
         | Isn't the algorithm publicly known? Any video show it to at
         | least one person, if they watch it show it to more.
         | 
         | Which people on TikTok early on called the most fair algorithm.
         | However, I suspect Youtube initially had the same or a very
         | similar one.
         | 
         | And in both cases I suspect once the app becomes very popular
         | the algorithm is updated to be more profitable, whatever that
         | requires.
         | 
         | In other words, enshittification affects everything.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | > In other words, enshittification affects everything.
           | 
           | The presence of this comment in every HN thread is a meta-
           | example.
        
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