[HN Gopher] Public Access OpenVMS System
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       Public Access OpenVMS System
        
       Author : BSDobelix
       Score  : 72 points
       Date   : 2025-01-28 12:20 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (decuserve.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (decuserve.org)
        
       | Palomides wrote:
       | what interesting software is there to run on a VMS machine?
        
         | linksnapzz wrote:
         | I believe the point of VMS is to run boring software as
         | reliably as possible. Train-ticketing backends, air-traffic
         | control, warehouse management etc.
         | 
         | It's interesting to see how little effort it takes to keep
         | stuff running.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | I used to work for a health informatics company and our
           | department level systems ran on OpenVMS. Radiology
           | management, pharmacy management, etc.
        
         | dizhn wrote:
         | talk? maybe ytalk?
        
           | drummojg wrote:
           | I still miss bitnet.
        
             | BSDobelix wrote:
             | It's still here (HNET) ;)
             | 
             | https://moshix.dynu.net/
             | 
             | https://github.com/moshix/BITNETServices
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | Moria (now Angband) was originally on VMS, written in VAX
         | Pascal.
         | 
         | We remember it well because it was distributed as a single,
         | large file, and our 11/730 just choked and died trying to
         | compile it.
         | 
         | The MicroVAX was much better at coping with it.
        
         | loph wrote:
         | VAX Notes. Perhaps the original groupware. Not really useful
         | without collaborators any more, since DEC is dead and took that
         | cultural fork with it.
         | 
         | See https://thoughtsofanidlemind.com/2012/12/14/vax-notes/
         | 
         | and the referenced paper
         | 
         | https://thoughtsofanidlemind.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/...
        
         | BSDobelix wrote:
         | VMS-empire ;)
         | 
         | http://www.catb.org/~esr/vms-empire/
        
         | _DeadFred_ wrote:
         | I always played Rogue and Trek on the VAX when I had to go in
         | with my mom when she worked weekends.
        
       | chasil wrote:
       | You can also follow this guide to run your own VMS 1.0 on a VAX
       | 11/780 emulator.
       | 
       | https://gunkies.org/wiki/Installing_VMS_V1.0_on_SIMH
        
         | BSDobelix wrote:
         | Or your modern OpenVMS V9.2 x86 as a VM:
         | 
         | Community license:
         | 
         | https://vmssoftware.com/products/licenses/
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | So unfortunate VMS was never open sourced like Solaris was.
           | It was really interesting, and deserved a fate other than
           | obscurity. Would be cool if zOS was open sourced, but on the
           | other hand the various cloud control planes seem like the
           | "real" OS nowadays in many settings.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | The original VMS kernel was written in assembler. It is
             | doubtful that anyone would want it.
             | 
             | I don't know how later versions changed.
             | 
             | In any case, Windows NT (re)used a number of concepts from
             | VMS.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_NT#Development
             | 
             | "Although NT was not an exact clone of Cutler's previous
             | operating systems, DEC engineers almost immediately noticed
             | the internal similarities. Parts of VAX/VMS Internals and
             | Data Structures, published by Digital Press, accurately
             | describe Windows NT internals using VMS terms."
        
             | skissane wrote:
             | DEC used to ship source listings to customers. Not in a
             | form you could compile - a CD-ROM full of PDFs. Although
             | not freely redistributable, there are ISO files floating
             | around the Internet
             | 
             | For MVS, the old public domain versions came with some
             | source code, but it doesn't match up well with the binaries
             | (the supplied source is an older version missing many
             | patches the binaries have). Newer copyrighted versions they
             | made source listings available on microfiche-it would be
             | great if someone who still has those microfiche were to
             | scan them, although I think people are hesitant to do so
             | since they worry IBM might react negatively (they are
             | copyrighted and possibly under NDA too). And then they
             | stopped issuing microfiche, but apparently they replaced it
             | with some system that IBM customers can log in to and look
             | at some of the source code file-by-file but not download
             | it-I imagine they log every file you look at and if you
             | look at too much they might ask you what you are doing. I
             | know other vendors have similar systems-e.g. Oracle has
             | such a system to let their ERP customers look at some of
             | their ERP source code. (Or at least they did when I worked
             | there years ago-I assume they still do.)
             | 
             | MVS and z/OS always had another issue - large chunks of
             | them are written in a proprietary programming language
             | (PL/S or its successor PL/X) for which IBM has never
             | released a compiler. Well, there was a period many years
             | ago when IBM was licensing their PL/X compiler to ISV's
             | relatively cheaply, but that didn't last long. Using a
             | proprietary language with no publicly available compiler
             | helped discourage customers from modifying the source code
             | they received, and also helped discourage would-be cloners,
             | especially in the early days when the idea of software
             | copyright was still very new and hadn't yet been
             | extensively tested in court.
             | 
             | I also have heard they still ship some source for JES2, a
             | bit of an exception to the general rule of "object code
             | only" (OCO).
        
           | tac19 wrote:
           | Have you ever been able to get a community license? I've
           | submitted a request for one several times over the last year
           | or two and never received a response, not even a denial.
        
             | ofrzeta wrote:
             | Not OP but I got one. Some days ago I got another mail with
             | a new version followed by another mail with a bugfix.
        
             | BSDobelix wrote:
             | Yeah i got one too (around 3 years ago), and some days ago
             | they sent me a email with the updated image.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Can't take a cosy nap on top of a VAX 11/780 emulator, though.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | that box seems to already have the hug of death
        
       | philprx wrote:
       | wooohooo... it had been a long long time since I last entered VMS
       | command in a terminal !
       | 
       | Thank you sooo much for making this happen! very happy here
        
       | netfortius wrote:
       | sys$system brings tears to my eyes...
        
       | ForOldHack wrote:
       | The is the beyond of cool. Is the hardware real?
        
         | BSDobelix wrote:
         | Yep it a AlphaServer ES40 with 4 cpu's, 2GB ram
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Does anyone remember another public VMS system called "Carl" or
       | Carl.best.net or something like that? I had fun playing with VMS
       | on it, but that was years ago.
        
       | lizknope wrote:
       | VMS was the first multiuser system I used in 1991. I was amazed
       | that a single computer could have 300 users logged in all doing
       | their own thing.
       | 
       | I learned to program in C and tried using Borland Turbo C on a
       | DOS. Go outside of the array index and you could easily crash the
       | entire machine which meant reboot and try it again. I thought the
       | concept of memory protection was incredible! Why didn't every
       | computer have that?
       | 
       | It was the first time I saw email, sending messages, and the
       | phone utility for chatting with other users while waiting for
       | your programs to run in the background.
       | 
       | I moved on to an IBM RT running AIX and got hooked on Unix.
       | That's the system I wanted and have been running Linux since
       | 1994. But VMS still holds a special place.
        
         | TristanBall wrote:
         | On of my favourite hardware investments as a teenager trying to
         | learn c and assembly under dos was a caching hard drive
         | controller.
         | 
         | It made those post crash reboots so much faster!
         | 
         | Talk about solving the wrong problem...
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | My first serious (multiuser) system experience was VMS. The
       | concurrency, the power of DCL, the record based nature of files,
       | the mail box concept for process communication, the accounting
       | system, the granular privs, the cluster concept. I came to UNIX
       | second and still miss some of these things.
        
       | edarchis wrote:
       | VMS had asynchronous programming to its core. Most system calls
       | could be performed synchronously or async. You just had to give
       | the async call a flag that would indicate when the response was
       | ready. So you could read a file or connect to the network,
       | continue execution and when you actually needed the answer, just
       | sys$wait(flag). Or have callback functions. It worked extremely
       | well as some else mentioned, 64Mb of RAM was enough to handle 200
       | interactive users with RDB (database IMO far superior to Oracle
       | that was acquired by them and promptly buried)
        
         | EvanAnderson wrote:
         | > VMS had asynchronous programming to its core. Most system
         | calls could be performed synchronously or async.
         | 
         | This continued, of course, in its spiritual successor Windows
         | NT.
        
           | not2b wrote:
           | Yes, same architect (Dave Cutler), and WNT is (V+1)(M+1)(S+1)
           | though they probably didn't do that on purpose.
        
       | OhMeadhbh wrote:
       | Alas. My account has expired.
        
       | rbc wrote:
       | I'm familiar with a site that once had around 30 Vaxen for
       | scientific computing in the late 1980s. This included Vax
       | 11/780s, 11/750s, uVax I's, uVax II's and eventually a Vax 8800
       | used to feed a Cray Y-MP. All long gone. Linux has moved in and
       | taken over.
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-28 23:01 UTC)