[HN Gopher] A 20-year-old small company
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       A 20-year-old small company
        
       Author : wulujia
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2025-01-28 01:23 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hacklook.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hacklook.com)
        
       | wulujia wrote:
       | Even though we're now 20 years old, we've always been a small
       | company. Over the years, many colleagues have come and gone, and
       | we currently have only 50 employees. Perhaps this is the reality
       | of most startups - while many dream of going public, creating
       | groundbreaking products, or being recognized globally, few
       | achieve it. We can only do our best.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | The difference sounds to be in the intents and focus. This
         | sounds like focusing on making product for the people. Others
         | may not. This may not be in the focus for others.
         | 
         | I was interviewing for a position at a startup in the alley of
         | my profession a few years ago where my opening question was
         | when my turn came: where do you see the company in 5 years?
         | 
         | - Sold!
         | 
         | Came the answer without a moment of hesitation. And that was
         | it, the full answer.
         | 
         | Well, they got sold recently, I nod to that. But I did not want
         | to become a salesman, so we wouldn't have get to an agreement
         | even if the position was offered to me.
         | 
         | Getting to be stuck in a long running small organization that
         | has the main purpose of getting big and be sold sounds a
         | terrible life.
        
           | ozim wrote:
           | Being sold is not always bad.
           | 
           | Company I work for was sold by the owners mostly because they
           | had huge fights.
           | 
           | We were bought by company that is in similar business but
           | they were not good with tech so we are their ,,innovation"
           | center instead of them spending years to build innovation
           | from scratch.
           | 
           | We are still separate business unit and continue our thing
           | but they get customers from their network to use our
           | software.
           | 
           | Downside of course being a business unit we have to adjust to
           | some of their stuff and our boss has to explain expenses and
           | deal with all kind of red tape.
           | 
           | It is 3-4 years now since we were bought out and this year
           | company will be 10 years.
        
       | nikolayasdf123 wrote:
       | which company is this? what are their products? anyone got the
       | link?
        
         | dearroy wrote:
         | I know one of their company's products, it's https://zsxq.com/.
         | But it came out in 2015, and I've never tried any of their
         | other stuff.
        
           | wulujia wrote:
           | Thanks. We build software and sale it to big companies at
           | first,and then develop anti virus software etc.
        
           | wulujia wrote:
           | We also try some new things such as https://note.slax.com and
           | https://r.slax.com
        
         | wulujia wrote:
         | It's a company at China, at first we dev software on windows
         | and sale it, today we run am app name knowledge planets, url
         | zsxq.com(in Chinese).
        
       | hank1931 wrote:
       | We're a 33-year-old small company, with thirty employees. I
       | started the company in 1992 to do custom programming (VB and MS
       | Access) and network support (Novell NetWare). I slowly grew to
       | five employees. In 2000 I did not enjoy billing out our hours, so
       | I decided to develop a product -- a web-based issue tracking
       | application to help with IT support. The transition from a
       | services business to a product business was much more difficult
       | than I anticipated, but we made it. Now Issuetrak is doing fine.
       | From what I read on Hacker News, there are nice aspects to
       | working in a small company. We have no outside investment, so we
       | call our own shots. Everyone is close to the customers. We listen
       | to all team members' ideas. Everyone knows who is contributing.
       | We can work from home. After 25 years of taking customer
       | suggestions, our product is robust. We provide prompt, very good
       | telephone support. We win deals (and lose them too) against
       | competitors that are 400 times our size. One of the biggest
       | satisfactions is that when we survey our customers after each
       | support encounter, it is not unusual to hear them say that
       | Issuetrak is the best software company they've ever dealt with.
       | My salary is probably less than that of many FANG engineers, but
       | life is good.
        
         | afitnerd wrote:
         | On top of that, y'all are great in the community. You've hosted
         | my tech meetup before and I know you host others as well.
        
           | hank1931 wrote:
           | Thanks for the comment. To think, a Hacker News person was in
           | our offices. How cool!!
        
         | slyfox125 wrote:
         | You are doing things the right way; never doubt yourself in
         | that regard: money isn't everything.
        
         | ThinkBeat wrote:
         | Congrats. Love to read this.
         | 
         | The notion of "what is small" is interesting. I think of small
         | mom and pop shops. But compared to the "giants" of which there
         | are several 30 is really small.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Also what is medium. Currently working with company having
           | couple hundred employees. Doing consulting and own products.
           | Small compared to thousands or tens of thousand of large
           | companies in field. But not anymore small even by EU rules...
        
             | efsavage wrote:
             | For me the line between a small and medium business is if
             | you have HR.
        
           | Ruarl wrote:
           | I think a company is small whilst all the employees could
           | conceivably fit into a house party. That is perhaps a better
           | metric here in the UK where there are fewer colossal houses.
           | But hopefully you get the idea.
        
           | portaouflop wrote:
           | I would say below 50 employees is small, not quite mom&pop
           | but small enough that you know everyone and there aren't
           | different separate "departments" in the company.
        
           | dugmartin wrote:
           | The US SBA (Small Business Administration) has a table of
           | industries with their definition of small using either dollar
           | amount of receipts or number of employees:
           | 
           | https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2023-06/Table%20of%2.
           | ..
           | 
           | Here are some software related codes/sizes where $ amounts
           | are in millions:                   541511  Custom Computer
           | Programming Services   $34   n/a         541519  Other
           | Computer Related Services        $34   n/a
           | 
           | So, according to the SBA you are small until you do $34
           | million in business annually with no specific number of
           | employees.
        
             | hank1931 wrote:
             | This link is fascinating. I had no idea that the U.S.
             | government definition of small business was so elaborate. I
             | asked ChatGPT, and it turns out there are 978 industries,
             | covered by 102 different size standards! Why did they come
             | up with this? If a company meets their criteria, it can
             | qualify for government contracts, loans, grants, advocacy
             | programs and more.
             | 
             | According to ChatGPT:
             | 
             | To come up with this list, the U.S. Census Bureau provides
             | detailed information on industries, including employment,
             | revenue, and business structure. SBA economists analyze
             | factors like average firm size, capital intensity, and
             | industry concentration to determine reasonable thresholds
             | for "small businesses." They study the competition between
             | small and large businesses in federal procurement,
             | considering small businesses' ability to compete for
             | contracts. The annual budget for the SBA is $1 billion.
             | This does not include $50 billion in various loan programs.
             | 
             | Here's a link to the ChatGPT session: https://chatgpt.com/s
             | hare/6798e036-7f9c-8008-9190-b704d1cde5...
             | 
             | The U.S. Small Business Administration is a big operation!
        
         | PretzelSweat wrote:
         | Shoot, you hiring Sys Admins?
        
       | silexia wrote:
       | We are a 15 year old small company with 250 full time employees.
       | I completely bootstrapped the company and never took a dime of
       | debt or any investor money. We do web design and online marketing
       | work. I tried building some products, and though they were game
       | changers internally, they never took off externally. Now
       | Coalition Technologies is services provider with a good
       | reputation for standing behind our work. Though I do hate telling
       | people my email address on the phone... C o a l I t I o n T E c h
       | n o l o g I e s dot com. Why couldn't I have named it Pin or
       | something haha.
        
       | Fritatta wrote:
       | This is called a successful small business and something to take
       | great pride in outside of the SV bubble.
        
       | darkstar_16 wrote:
       | I'd guess that outside the Silicon Valley bubble (and few big
       | names in other countries), most software companies are like this.
       | Small, profitable and without a lot of debt.
        
       | uoaei wrote:
       | I worked at one of these. Turned out it was a nepotism grift that
       | flew under the radar. CEO came out of retirement to get an
       | ironclad contract through his college buddy to do basically
       | nothing and get paid for it.
        
       | webprofusion wrote:
       | Man, I got that beat by 5+yrs and -49 employees. Most businesses
       | are small businesses. 89% have less than 10 employees.
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | Can't think of anything I'd like less than working at a company
       | that has 100 employees after 1 year and then 200 the next year.
       | Talk about mostly being occupied with moving desks, onboarding
       | people and having growth other such growth pains. Not sure why
       | people idealize working in this sort of environment. Other than
       | that it can be lucrative to get in early in a growing business,
       | what's the pull?
        
         | DavidPiper wrote:
         | Alternatively:
         | 
         | Can't think of anything I'd like less than working at a company
         | that has 10,000 employees after 10 years and then 15,000 the
         | next year. Talk about mostly being occupied with moving desks,
         | onboarding people and having growth other such growth pains.
         | Not sure why people idealize working in this sort of
         | environment. Other than that it can offer lucrative salaries in
         | a growing business, what's the pull?
        
           | alkonaut wrote:
           | Yeah same thing. Such a company is just 100 different 100
           | people companies. Plus a lot of big enterprise bs. Working at
           | a 100 ppl company that has 105 people next year, that sounds
           | great. Or even a 1000 people company that has 1000 or 1050
           | people next year.
        
           | ElevenLathe wrote:
           | Firms are not run for the benefit of their employees (unless
           | they are also the majority owners, which is pretty rare), so
           | it doesn't actually matter what we prefer unless it impacts
           | hiring (aka the cost of sufficiently useful labor) which it
           | largely doesn't as most employees don't have pricing power on
           | their labor (they are price takers, not price setters) and
           | unions (the purpose of which are to give them that power) are
           | out of the question.
        
       | sausagefeet wrote:
       | I hope to be able to write this blog post in 20 years. My co-
       | founder and I started a bootstrapped company 3 years ago do IaC
       | orchestration and we are slowly but steadily growing. We love
       | being small. We love being accountable to our customers. We love
       | having the freedom to make decisions. Yes, it's not always easy.
       | We explicitly don't want to be a billion dollar company. We want
       | to make a product that serves our niche exactly how they want to
       | be served. We're definitely making less money than if we worked
       | at another company. But we feel we can make it to our goal and
       | think we'll be happy when there.
        
       | mihaaly wrote:
       | I praise you.
       | 
       | It is a good feeling reading this. The mentality that is
       | (apparently) so rare today with the many ego pushing disrupters
       | disrupting (obstructing actually, obstructers is the correct term
       | here) life for everyone else. The providing service for others -
       | shortly: creating actual, real value instead of appearances -, is
       | not a typical and mainstream behaviour nowadays, the stability
       | over fame, no, but the pushing spectacular sounding (made up for
       | the purpose of sounding spectacular) elusive agenda on others for
       | heaping up wealth is.
       | 
       | Manipulation instead of serving others is the norm.
       | 
       | Based on what hits the broad audience. Under the radar fair
       | services like this are hidden from the public eye.
        
       | yshui wrote:
       | CodeWeavers, which I am very lucky to be part of, is also an
       | (almost) 30-year-old small company! We make Wine, Proton, and
       | CrossOver, you might've heard of them. And I think we are hiring
       | as well, please have a look!
        
       | jacknews wrote:
       | There's a point at which you can be _too_ serious, simple, low-
       | key, understated, etc.
       | 
       | What is this company, what does it do? There are no links to a
       | main web page, or anything other than these few blog posts.
        
       | stevoski wrote:
       | I feel that 50 people is not a small company!
       | 
       | It's all relative, of course.
       | 
       | But 50 people is big enough that as the business owner, you'd
       | need to be permanently in hire mode, just to replace people
       | moving on for various reasons. And you'd be frequently be exposed
       | to your employee's personal issues.
       | 
       | I prefer running a _really_ small company - just 5 people.
        
       | apercu wrote:
       | My dream was always a very small practice of tightly focused
       | services and a humane work cycle due to low overhead. During
       | crunch time you work hard and during slow times you relax and get
       | paid a lot less.
       | 
       | But every time I had partners or colleagues there is this idea
       | that growth is super important, everyone needs an assistant, and
       | overhead grows to the point that you need $100k every month to
       | make payroll. So everyone has to grind, and you have to take
       | lower margin projects and it's 40 hours a week, except during
       | crunch time where it's, well, a lot more than that.
       | 
       | I helped grow my second company to a profitable 20-person
       | company, but I thought that was too big (and a lot of us worked
       | crazy hours).
       | 
       | I joined and grew another company to around 30 people (I was not
       | the owner so just following orders).
       | 
       | I was never able to find the right people at the right phase of
       | life, with the right skill sets, so I have been a solo practice
       | for a decade. But I always thought a 8-10 person, highly focused
       | consulting practice is where it's at.
        
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