[HN Gopher] No one is disrupting banks - at least not the big ones
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       No one is disrupting banks - at least not the big ones
        
       Author : kazanins
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2025-01-26 14:05 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.popularfintech.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.popularfintech.com)
        
       | hobs wrote:
       | This implies someone can take deposits and issue loans in a
       | "better" way, when the main feature of this type of business to
       | customers is showing up with extremely low risk of losing
       | deposits, not innovation.
       | 
       | Credit cards are not taking deposits and issuing loans in a
       | traditional sense, they are fee generation machines that are
       | externalized which would not generally be "traditional banking".
        
         | doomroot wrote:
         | There are other banking models that are needed. Look into
         | Custodia Bank's model (SPDI). Full reserve system meant to
         | backstop high risk (but legal) businesses. They went through a
         | multi-year lawsuit around the start of 2020 with the fed who
         | didn't want them to exist, ultimately lost.
        
       | Red_Comet_88 wrote:
       | No one is disrupting banks because the mega banks have the sole
       | power of creating credit out of thin air, and no upstart fintech
       | company has this power. To gain this power requires the creation
       | of a bank, which as you can imagine, is probably the most gate-
       | kept activity on earth.
       | 
       | Andreesen talked about this in his Rogan appearance. The banks
       | and gov brought the hammer down on crypto because it was a
       | legitimate threat to the banking cabal which runs the American
       | Empire.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | Yes and crypto doesn't have any inherent risk like a sitting
         | President creating a crypto currency where he has 80% of the
         | currency, will probably make a half billion dollars and then do
         | a rug pull.
         | 
         | https://fortune.com/2025/01/22/donald-trump-net-worth-memeco...
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | That's the thing I can't ever come to understand about
           | crypto. It's purely about perception of value. At least with
           | some precious metal, it has a floor value as a function of
           | its practical uses and abundance.
           | 
           | Which leads me to believe that the only thing that could be
           | honestly said is that a crypto is purely about winners and
           | suckers and timing.
        
             | mlinhares wrote:
             | In this specific case its also about buying access, so I
             | doubt he'll rug pull, he can just direct the access
             | requests to buy something.
        
             | sali0 wrote:
             | The legal landscape forced the industry to be purely
             | financial. Hopefully this changes soon.
        
             | doomroot wrote:
             | There are pros and cons of cryptocurrencies as money, just
             | like gold, which cause people to speculate on the price.
        
               | myvoiceismypass wrote:
               | What are the pros of the trump coin or the melania coin?
        
             | tenthirtyam wrote:
             | > At least with some precious metal, it has a floor value
             | as a function of its practical uses and abundance.
             | 
             | I don't really give this argument much credence any more.
             | If the value of, say, gold or diamonds were to drop their
             | practical-use-floor-value, they'd be valued at probably
             | less than 1% (maybe much less) of current value. I mean,
             | how much gold is actually _consumed_ by industry? And we
             | even have industrial diamonds now.
             | 
             | A friend argued to me that crypto is "A Terrible Thing"
             | because its just used to fuel the (illegal) narcotics
             | industry. At this point, I'm doubting that too - the market
             | cap of all crpyto, and the value being transacted e.g.
             | daily volume, has increased massively recently. Are we to
             | believe that narcotics have caused that? I can't imagine so
             | - more likely to me it's around 90-99% speculation which,
             | you might well argue, is "Another Terrible Thing."
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | I think the main thing precious metals have going for
               | them is tradition. That's no small thing. They've been
               | considered valuable for millennia, and that's likely to
               | continue. Bitcoin might be replaced by some other fad in
               | a decade.
               | 
               | It's like if you're betting on a religion, Christianity
               | is more likely to last than Scientology. They might both
               | be equally made up, but one has demonstrated staying
               | power.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | I mean, this is all true which is why we have fiat
               | currencies.
               | 
               | The UK government has consistently honoured debt for
               | longer then the US has existed, for example.
        
               | amluto wrote:
               | The actual market value of diamonds is pretty low. You
               | can pay a jeweler a lot of money for a shiny diamond, but
               | good luck reselling it for a similar amount of money.
               | 
               | Gold, OTOH, is fungible. You can melt it, mold it into
               | different shapes bars, resell it, etc.
        
             | dumah wrote:
             | There's at most a zero floor value on holdings of
             | government debt, corporate equities, bank holdings, and any
             | asset held by a custodian.
             | 
             | The floor value of physical commodities with significant
             | storage costs is negative.
             | 
             | The market is aware of these possibilities and these risks
             | are generally recognized as being embedded in asset prices
             | as premiums.
        
             | halfcat wrote:
             | > _It's purely about perception of value_
             | 
             | All money has always been about perception, whether we used
             | paper, shiny rocks, or sea shells as money, it's always
             | been about perception. Is it real or counterfeit, do you
             | trust the person you're transacting with, are enough people
             | you know using it, and will people with weapons show up to
             | protect your money if someone else tries to steal it?
             | 
             | The "people with weapons" part turns out to be a key
             | component. The novel thing about crypto is that you are
             | less reliant on the "people with weapons" to protect you
             | and tell you what you're allowed to do with your money, and
             | more reliant on the "people with encryption".
        
               | wordpad25 wrote:
               | No.
               | 
               | Fiat is backed by tax base. US has more assets than debt.
               | Additionally US is the largest economy in the world, how
               | much would the right to tax it be worth? A lot.
               | 
               | It's not at all just perception and influence as you
               | claim.
        
               | macinjosh wrote:
               | So hyperinflation only happens when the tax base
               | disappears? Perception and influence is clearly part of
               | the picture.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | There is brand value in Trump.
             | 
             | Trump is the largest meme on this planet.
             | 
             | What should be the fair value of his fan coin?
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | The American dollar is also about perception of value, but
             | via a maze of interlocking attributes that make it slow to
             | move.
             | 
             | A new fiat currency without a state sponsor is fragile by
             | comparison. Always will be.
        
         | csomar wrote:
         | You don't need a bank to create money out of thin air and
         | creating a bank won't allow you to do that.
         | 
         | I can create money out of thin air with you, if you are willing
         | to accept my credit worthiness.
        
         | badgersnake wrote:
         | Tether appear to have created a huge amount of USD out of thin
         | air.
         | 
         | Best not to pay much attention to Andreesen though.
        
         | perrygeo wrote:
         | > mega banks have the sole power of creating credit out of thin
         | air
         | 
         | Amazing that more people don't know this. Most people will
         | insist until their face is red that bank credit is a "loan"
         | with equal debits and credits on both sides of the balance
         | sheet. Wrong. The borrower's bank account goes up. And the
         | bank's balance sheet goes up (the loan is an asset). Viola, new
         | money.
        
           | danielmarkbruce wrote:
           | Take the next step. What happens when the borrower spends the
           | money and the place they spend it banks with different bank?
           | 
           | What's amazing is that more people don't think this through.
           | They just take the "thin air" story and that's it.
        
           | ahtihn wrote:
           | If you count the loan as an asset, surely you have to count
           | it as a liability for the borrower. And the bank has to
           | actually give the money, so they're down that money.
           | 
           | In the end both are net zero.
        
           | kdmtctl wrote:
           | You can't do this indefinitely. There a lot of risk
           | management rules and capital requirement ratios which dictate
           | how much money you can make of "the thin air". Also you
           | should have enough liquidity to let the customer transfer the
           | borrowed amount outside to actually use it.
        
           | ninetyninenine wrote:
           | i thought the central bank does this?
        
         | danielmarkbruce wrote:
         | Getting a banking license in the US at least is totally doable
         | and lots of banks are created de novo every year.
         | 
         | As another commenter noted, anyone can create "money out of
         | thin air". Come to my corner store and buy an apple on credit.
         | Poof!
         | 
         | Credit was the original money, made out of thin air, and can be
         | by anyone.
        
           | kcatskcolbdi wrote:
           | Everyone has their own opinion of "lots" I suppose, but the
           | quickest info I could come by in a quick search was 8 de novo
           | created in 2021.
        
             | danielmarkbruce wrote:
             | Yup it's in the ~10's every year more or less.
        
           | Red_Comet_88 wrote:
           | Can your corner store credit be used to pay taxes? How long
           | will your corner store survive if the IRS found out you were
           | processing transactions in your own currency?
        
             | danielmarkbruce wrote:
             | No to paying taxes, mostly because the asset you'd have is
             | an apple... The corner store at least has a receivable, but
             | the IRS still won't accept that from them.
             | 
             | But, at least in the US, before the national bank acts in
             | the 1800's, various taxing entities specified which bank
             | notes (or other assets) they'd accept and not accept. It
             | was basically whichever bank notes circulated the most with
             | no/little discount, some gold/silver coins, some government
             | bonds. Ie acceptance by a taxing entity isn't really a
             | clear line on "is/is not" money.
             | 
             | Trading receivables has been going on forever, happens
             | today, is totally legal. The corner store could sell the
             | receivable, and many businesses to sell their receivables.
        
         | throwaway894345 wrote:
         | I remember reading about Monzo bank in the UK a lot some 5
         | years ago. I'm curious how they are doing these days. Seems
         | like they're still operating?
        
           | ctippett wrote:
           | They're doing quite well it seems. Everyone I know seems to
           | have an account with them.
           | 
           | They've had a full, unrestricted bank licence since 2017 and
           | have over 9.3m customers[1].
           | 
           | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monzo
        
         | jongjong wrote:
         | Exactly. Bankers are modern-day royalty. Banks are granted
         | special, exclusive powers by the state to issue/counterfeit the
         | nation's currency as loans. Banking executives are anointed by
         | decree.
         | 
         | The idea of 'disrupting banks' is gaslighting because it
         | pretends that they operate within a 'free market'.
         | 
         | Just think to yourself; if the government gave you a special,
         | near-exclusive power to create the nation's money in unlimited
         | qualities to make loans to people and you could collect
         | interest on that money (which wasn't even yours to begin with).
         | Does that sound like a free market?
        
       | picafrost wrote:
       | In many cases the start-ups that disrupted entrenched big players
       | did so by skirting the existing law and regulations the big
       | players have to abide by and gaining market share before
       | regulators could catch up to them.
       | 
       | Maybe I simply lack vision but I don't think this behavior maps
       | well into the fundamental day-to-day livelihoods of every day
       | people. Certainly I am not willing to risk my finances for
       | marginally increased convenience or marginally lower fees.
        
         | m101 wrote:
         | This. Regulation has been set so high on banks that it makes it
         | extremely difficult for new players to compete.
         | 
         | The reasons given for regulation are:
         | 
         | - protection from failure because of inability to not bail them
         | out (and it has done a good job of this by and large, with some
         | obvious risk oversights - e.g. silicon valley bank)
         | 
         | - money laundering regulations
         | 
         | The real corruption/monopoly in financial services that needs
         | addressing are the amex/visa/mastercard transaction fees. The
         | only way to fix this, in my opinion, is to have the consumer
         | pay the fees.
        
           | bryanlarsen wrote:
           | The big problem with amex/visa/mastercard is that it's a
           | three sided market.
           | 
           | So make it a 2 sided market, unify the processor into one of
           | the sides. In other words, either a merchant co-operative or
           | a consumer co-operative. In this case, a merchant co-
           | operative seems a natural fit. The merchants jointly own the
           | co-op, and get a refund of their fees proportional to the
           | profit of the co-op.
           | 
           | And you get the consumers on board the standard way: by
           | bribing them. So something like a 2% rebate. So the merchant
           | fees stay at a similar rate, but the merchants win in other
           | ways because they own the processor.
           | 
           | Nobody's going to become a billionaire starting a co-op, but
           | an executive in a successful financial co-op would pull in a
           | multi-seven figure salary, which should be sufficient
           | motivation to interest the startup folks.
           | 
           | And Y-Combinator would have to loan money to such a startup,
           | they couldn't buy in. But it's in their interest to do so,
           | given how much of the Y-Combinator portfolio is dependent on
           | credit cards.
        
         | throwaway894345 wrote:
         | My company works in the healthcare space. I don't know if we're
         | really "disrupting" as much as we are inventing new niches that
         | were previously unoccupied, presumably because of the
         | difficulties of dealing with regulators, working with
         | electronic healthcare record (EHR) systems, and working with
         | large, bureaucratic healthcare organizations like hospitals,
         | insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and EHR
         | providers. We've had a lot of success without dodging or
         | stretching regulation (although we did work with regulators to
         | create a new category of medical device: algorithms).
        
       | scarface_74 wrote:
       | What isn't the bank doing for me that is in need of "disruption"?
       | 
       | High Yield Savings Accounts? Amex offers a HYSA that is 3.8% vs
       | LendingClubs 4.5%. How many people have enough money in savings
       | to make the difference worthwhile and make them willing to trust
       | a non traditional bank? I have a year's worth of expenses in mine
       | (in addition to retirement savings) and I wouldn't even bother.
       | 
       | My bank is there to accept my money and let me pay stuff with it.
        
         | hansvm wrote:
         | In the $5k-$10k savings range, you can also average 4.5% just
         | by switching banks every year and taking advantage of sign-up
         | bonuses. With a spouse and the referral bonus, the break-even
         | cap goes up to $15k-$30k. Everything is FDIC-insured the whole
         | time.
         | 
         | I'll wager that under $5k in savings, the $35/yr difference
         | between those two account types might probably doesn't matter
         | in the slightest. That opinion is colored by a couple of these
         | neobanks "losing" thousands of my dollars for months at a time
         | during transfers, the prospect of which seems much more
         | dangerous to somebody with limited savings and likely only one
         | bank.
         | 
         | Above $30k, you can easily and cheaply get a medium-touch
         | experience with a company like Merrill Lynch (who themselves
         | offer 4.2% even in zero-risk (outside of bankruptcy) accounts)
         | and should maybe start looking at moving some of that out of a
         | traditional savings account anyway.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | > What isn't the bank doing for me that is in need of
         | "disruption"?
         | 
         | Why is there still a hold for check deposits? Why do we still
         | have banker's hours and business days for transactions?
         | 
         | There are plenty of ways banks could be improved
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | What type of transactions do you need to make outside of
           | business hours that you can't do electronically?
           | 
           | And who actually deals with physical checks? Even the various
           | contractors I used when preparing my home for sell took some
           | form of electronic payment
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | if i transfer money from one bank's account to another, it
             | takes minimum of 48 hours if I make the request before 3pm
             | cutoff time. Day 1, the transfer request is made at 1pm.
             | Day 2, the money is no longer available in the sending
             | account yet not in the receiving account. Day 3, the money
             | is available in the receiving account. If I do it after
             | 3pm, the request is not placed until Day 2. Why? WTF does a
             | computer have a cutoff time? Does it go home and cook
             | dinner for the family and do homework with the kids?
             | 
             | >took some form of electronic payment
             | 
             | These are nothing but electronic requests. No human needs
             | to be involved, yet here we are. But sure, let's go ahead
             | and argue like I don't have valid issues because you seem
             | to not have any.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Zelle is run by the banks and transfers are instant and
               | free.
               | 
               | https://www.zellepay.com/faq/how-long-does-it-take-
               | receive-m...
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | ohmuhgawd becky, look at this person just hell bent on
               | trying to say i'm wrong.
               | 
               | zelle doesn't work everywhere.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | You're right, these are the only banks that support Zelle
               | 
               | https://www.zellepay.com/get-started
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | i hope you get paid for all of your shilling
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | You just can't admit you are wrong can you? Zelle is
               | free, supported by almost every bank in the US - I'm sure
               | you will find one obscure credit union in East
               | MiddleOfNowhere South Dakota who doesn't support it - and
               | it's instant
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | you can't just admit you don't know wtf you are talking
               | about
               | 
               | checks are a valid form of payment. if you receive one
               | you have to be able to deal with it. some checks are too
               | large for deposit via app. as someone else pointed out,
               | zelle has limits that make sending large payments
               | problematic. receiving a single check is much easier.
               | 
               | " supported by almost every bank in the US -" thanks for
               | proving the point though
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Yes, I'm sure you can find some obscure bank where it's
               | not supported, can you find at least 5 and tell me what
               | percentage of people it affects?
               | 
               | I can't think of one scenario where someone would be
               | willing to take a large paper check in 2025.
               | 
               | You would actually accept a paper check from someone over
               | $10K?
        
               | latency-guy2 wrote:
               | Substantiate this "shill" comment. Who is this user
               | employed by.
        
               | RestlessMind wrote:
               | Zelle has a limit on the amount I can transfer,
               | especially for new contacts. And it is precisely new
               | contacts where I need to make a big payment, latest
               | example being the contractor to remodeled my kitchen and
               | didn't want credit card payment for some reason.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > didn't want credit card payment for some reason.
               | 
               | i'm guessing 3.5%+ is the some reason
        
       | adamtaylor_13 wrote:
       | I don't think disrupting banks is even possible. The time, money,
       | and energy required is simply not realistic. There's so many
       | disrupt-able industries out there and I'm not even sure banking
       | is the most beneficial one to tackle.
       | 
       | It's a realistic Star Wars story where the Empire always wins
       | because... well it's the fucking empire. They didn't get there by
       | losing.
        
         | rco8786 wrote:
         | Right. Banks are boring. The whole industry is based on very
         | simple math. Nothing much to disrupt.
        
         | absolutelastone wrote:
         | They've "lost" a few times by now. Government has propped them
         | up.
         | 
         | The other side of the innovator's dilemma is the fact that the
         | market leaders who don't stick to their current winning
         | formula, instead risking big on a new technology, will sooner
         | or later get it wrong and fail on their own. That's why it's a
         | dilemma.
        
           | danielmarkbruce wrote:
           | JP Morgan Chase and Wells Fargo would have been fine in '08
           | had they been left alone.
        
           | qaq wrote:
           | Not all of them were on the loosing side of that situation
           | JPM had sold off most of risky mortgages in prior years
           | taking a sizable haircut while other banks were supposedly
           | raking it in. There was a ton of pressure on Jamie Dimon not
           | to do it because JPM numbers looked bad compared to peers in
           | those years.
        
           | adamtaylor_13 wrote:
           | I guess that's my argument as to why it's not losing.
           | 
           | If the government bailed you out, you didn't lose. They have
           | yet to really lose. Thus no incentive to disrupt such a
           | "steady" industry.
        
         | Neonlicht wrote:
         | The government is very conservative in handing out banking
         | licenses.
         | 
         | There was a famous scandal with an Icelandic bank that was
         | disrupting the market with higher interest rates.
        
           | imtringued wrote:
           | It is basically impossible to license a new bank in Germany
           | and the financial regulations have become stricter over time,
           | with a full banking license being mandatory for more and more
           | things. It's kind of disturbing.
           | 
           | If you are a big bank, you already have all the licenses and
           | can do everything so what difference does that regulation
           | make in practice?
        
             | okanat wrote:
             | N26 did it but creating a new bank attracts money
             | launderers and scammers. The legal department costs are
             | infeasible and half a century-old systems are not easy to
             | adapt to new banking concepts. The government and
             | regulation side of the system needs serious improvements in
             | Germany to bring them to 21st century first. However, there
             | is little economic incentive to do so. With an aging
             | population and deeply conservative culture, there is little
             | political incentive to improve any infrastructure. The
             | current governing parties will probably lose the election
             | next month because they made costly infrastructure fixes.
        
               | luckylion wrote:
               | But you don't necessarily need a banking license, right?
               | My understanding is that there's a handful of bank-as-a-
               | service banks that have a license and will let you do
               | your thing.
               | 
               | I'm sure the aging population doesn't help, but to me the
               | primary inertia comes from how difficult it is to switch.
               | You can take your phone number with you while changing
               | providers, you can't do that with your bank account. They
               | have "services" that are supposed to handle that, but
               | having dealt with their investment arms and moving a
               | broker account from one bank to another, I wouldn't trust
               | them to not mess it up, and suddenly my rent isn't
               | getting paid. So I'd have to do it myself, which will
               | make me deal with lots of stupid systems and processes
               | and cost a hours upon hours. I'd need to save 100% of my
               | banking fees (which are way too high) for a decade or two
               | to make that worthwhile.
               | 
               | Make switching banks as easy as switching phone providers
               | and you'll get some competition going.
        
               | okanat wrote:
               | To be honest, in Germany even the brick and mortar banks
               | provide transfer services. They will detect and move your
               | automatic payments. You usually fill a form, login to
               | each bank and they send automatic requests to move stuff.
               | Similarly my broker also supports moving accounts for me.
               | 
               | Moreover, especially after the Wirecard scandal, I
               | wouldn't trust any company that doesn't have a banking
               | license. Without a banking license they can nuke my
               | entire account and I will be the only responsible idiot
               | for that.
               | 
               | Btw, the US system is exploitative and decades behind
               | what the worst European countries have. NFC payments
               | became a thing after Apple brought them to the US.
               | Europeans, heck, Middle Eastern countries were already
               | using NFC EMV payments for 5 years by then. The
               | technologically best and most trustworthy banks are
               | usually from Northwestern Europe so look for Nordics and
               | the Netherlands, if you would like to see a modern but
               | not totally exploitative banking looks like.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | There comes a point where a reverse merger makes more
             | sense. You want to be a bank? Buy one. You want to be a
             | "different" bank? Buy one that's at a tipping point and
             | make your agent of change pitch.
        
         | ninetyninenine wrote:
         | all empires eventually fall
        
       | pqdbr wrote:
       | In Brazil traditional banks are totally being disrupted. See
       | Nubank.
        
         | rapfaria wrote:
         | Not sure abou that:
         | 
         | Credit portfolio in 2023:
         | 
         | Itau - $1176 billion
         | 
         | Banco do Brasil - $1109 billion
         | 
         | Bradesco - $877 billion
         | 
         | Nubank - $91 billion
         | 
         | Nubank also had the highest default rate between them (some
         | 6%).
         | 
         | It was great when it was created (fully digital, no credit
         | score check for a credit card), but it is now dealing with the
         | same problems as the big banks
        
       | neilwilson wrote:
       | First thing you have to do is understand how banks actually work
       | at root[0]
       | 
       | [0]: https://new-wayland.com/blog/framework-of-a-basic-bank/
        
       | d_burfoot wrote:
       | It's crazy to me that we're still using the same approach to
       | banking, given that the banking system regularly blows up and
       | drags the rest of the economy into a recession.
        
         | myvoiceismypass wrote:
         | Regularly?
        
         | gabruoy wrote:
         | It's crazy to me that we're still living on Earth, given the
         | climate risks and the natural disasters destroying people's
         | lives.
        
       | a1o wrote:
       | Aren't the big banks buying the fintech companies that have more
       | probability to create disruption?
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Hm so when a fintech "disrupts" banks it ends up walking and
       | quacking ... like a bank? Is it even a fintech any more?
        
       | jbs789 wrote:
       | The large banks have achieved scale in terms of accepting
       | deposits and lending at lowish margins. To accept deposits they
       | need regulatory approval and oversight.
       | 
       | For higher margins lending products they are absolutely being
       | "disrupted" by private credit.
        
       | jiehong wrote:
       | China has seen its banks disrupted quite a bit more than over
       | here with things like WeChat or AliPay. All daily transactions
       | are done with them, and even small loans.
       | 
       | UPI in India at least made payment system much better, by forcing
       | banks in the end. So quite different.
       | 
       | In Europe, SEPA is doing something similar to India's UPI, albeit
       | much slower. Again by forcing banks on a standard, unlike in
       | China.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I believe a genuine way to address this problem is through the
       | creation of financial sandboxes [1]: controlled environments
       | where regulations are relaxed to promote innovation at a certain
       | scale.
       | 
       | However, current regulations favor banks, making it difficult for
       | new entrants to disrupt the status quo without becoming a bank
       | themselves. This complexity is further compounded by the
       | intersection of regulations and geopolitics, which makes change
       | particularly challenging. Additionally, while lifting regulations
       | can encourage innovation, it must be approached cautiously to
       | avoid potential financial disasters.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/innovation/regulatory-sandbox
        
       | surfingdino wrote:
       | Banks sell one thing--debt. Many have tried to "disrupt" that
       | industry, but all attempts boil down to: getting a cut of payment
       | fees or getting paid to resell debt. All "innovation" in this
       | sector is done by crossing fingers and hoping the regulators
       | don't notice you trying to use language to pretend you are a bank
       | when you are not.
        
       | PaywallBuster wrote:
       | Revolut had credit cards for a few years but only in Lithuania
       | 
       | https://www.revolut.com/en-LT/credit-cards/
       | 
       | I guess they'd need to apply for banking license to offer CC in
       | every EU state and that would be an order of magnitude more
       | expensive than Lithuania's banking license
        
         | fph wrote:
         | I think that the true reason is another one: credit cards come
         | with credit, which people can choose not to pay back. It is
         | complicated to recover money from a person abroad, possibly
         | having to sue them in every EU state.
        
       | danielmarkbruce wrote:
       | No one is providing a value proposition that would make me move
       | away from [my large bank] when it comes to a basic checking
       | account.
       | 
       | Banks were disrupted in the mortgage market - a very large chunk
       | of residential mortgages go through brokers.
       | 
       | Banks are being disrupted in corporate credit. "Private Credit"
       | is exploding.
        
       | zigglezaggle wrote:
       | This is like saying "nobody is disrupting AWS" and then pointing
       | out that competitors don't have a version of AWS Glue.
       | 
       | Plenty of startups have disrupted banks. AMEX purchased one to
       | jumpstart its small business checking accounts just a few years
       | ago. You're just not looking hard enough.
       | 
       | If you move the goal posts to core checking/savings accounts by
       | consumers, then yeah there's not much of an upside there.
       | Consumers go decades to lifetimes on average without changing
       | banks. Capital One was the last one to do anything "disruptive"
       | here re: providing accounts and credit to the lower class, and
       | I'm not sure there's enough juice to squeeze left for a smaller,
       | more focused product to make any money given the stickiness of
       | checking accounts generally.
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Disruption will take awhile. The current players have rigged the
       | game in their favor. They have government officials, lobbyists,
       | and 40+ years of shitty neoliberal economic theory behind them.
       | The subprime mortgage crisis and subsequent bailout of banks by
       | main street is an example.
       | 
       | It will take more than a credit card or fancy app to disrupt this
       | corrupt machine.
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | What do we understand under "banks"? If keeping with the simply
       | notion of "stores funds and provides debit cards", the most
       | common usage in EU, especially east, banks were deeply disrupted.
       | Revolut and Wise took a large segment of the youth, who now also
       | got hooked on more services like savings accounts and stocks.
       | They have startup-like culture while being registered as standard
       | banks. Obviously their services, quality and support are
       | lightyears ahead of any traditional financial institution.
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | I'm a happy Revolut customer. Their app is great and it has
         | features that banks here in Italy don't (or if they do they
         | always charge it, that's why I'm trying to slowly break away
         | from them). Banking in Italy is the worst of the worst. They
         | are extremely well trained to make you waste time. Avoid at all
         | costs Banco Posta. People are not just inefficent, they have
         | absolutely no idea about anything you ask them and they love to
         | make you wait eternally. I have recently asked for more
         | information about a loan at another bank and surprisingly they
         | refuse to send me a formal document to read all the terms and
         | conditions. They literally sent me a plain text email with some
         | numbers, when I required them formal details (the famous "small
         | letter") about it they simply didn't reply.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | There was one playing the move fast and break things playbook.
       | SVB...
        
       | devops000 wrote:
       | Bitcoin
        
       | ranger207 wrote:
       | The products being pointed out in this article as an attempt to
       | disrupt banks seem to be basically the same product for a
       | different price. Like, a high-yield savings account is just a
       | savings account with a better price, right? How do you disrupt an
       | industry by selling the same products? The advantage of startups
       | is that they're more nimble, can pivot to fit the market better,
       | and can adapt to customer requests faster. None of that applies
       | to "selling the same product at a lower price", especially for
       | savings accounts where stability ("the company not suddenly
       | disappearing") is an important part of the pitch anyway
        
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