[HN Gopher] How far can you get in 40 minutes from each subway s...
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       How far can you get in 40 minutes from each subway station in NYC?
        
       Author : jxmorris12
       Score  : 218 points
       Date   : 2025-01-24 03:46 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (subwaysheds.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (subwaysheds.com)
        
       | xhkkffbf wrote:
       | Does it take into account the way that some subway lines run much
       | less frequently than others?
        
         | amanda99 wrote:
         | No, it seems to assume changing trains is instantaneous and
         | trains are waiting for you.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Which is why people prefer personal cars whenever possible.
           | Mass transit has to operate at 5 minute intervals (so that
           | you are waiting at most 10 to 15 minutes in the event of a
           | missed connection).
           | 
           | If it isn't that frequent, then I am going to opt for a
           | personal car every chance I can. Using only the subway in
           | Manhattan/some parts of Brooklyn is convenient, but as you
           | stray further, it starts getting tedious.
        
             | chimeracoder wrote:
             | > Mass transit has to operate at 5 minute intervals (so
             | that you are waiting at most 10 to 15 minutes in the event
             | of a missed connection).
             | 
             | Which is not only possible, but quite feasible. Upgrading
             | to provide six-minute service 24/7 would only require a
             | one-time investment of $300M, because it is projected to
             | raise enough revenue to pay for itself in the long term.
             | 
             | Unfortunately the current governor is trying to _cut_
             | transit funding again with her most recent budget proposal,
             | so that 's unlikely to happen anytime soon.
        
               | marcinzm wrote:
               | I'm not convinced it'd pay for itself since maintenance
               | still needs to be done so it's not really 6 minutes 24/7.
               | The 7 train in theory runs on weekends and in theory runs
               | fairly often. In practice it's down every other weekend
               | for I think 5+ years now. The MTA does not have a good
               | track record of timely maintenance and also seems to not
               | care much about long term downtime (ie: like their
               | original proposal for a 15 month closure of the L line).
        
               | chimeracoder wrote:
               | > The MTA does not have a good track record of timely
               | maintenance
               | 
               | A big part of that is because the MTA has been starved of
               | funding for fifteen years now, to the point where they've
               | had to substitute capital funds for operating funds in an
               | effort to keep the lights on. Maintenance becomes more
               | expensive when it's perpetually deferred - and it just
               | became even more expensive because Hochul's inexplicable
               | last-minute flop in June caused S&P to downgrade the
               | MTA's credit rating, which means all future bonded
               | capital projects will have to waste even more money on
               | higher interest payments.
               | 
               | > (ie: like their original proposal for a 15 month
               | closure of the L line).
               | 
               | That closure was intended to fix damage caused by
               | Hurricane Sandy, and to bolster the tunnels against
               | future climate disasters. The decision to forego the full
               | maintenance (made unilaterally by then-Governor Cuomo as
               | a political move) just kicked the can down the road.
        
               | marcinzm wrote:
               | Sure. My point is that cannot magically assume all of
               | that will go away in the future when making forecasts on
               | the impact of changes.
        
               | bob_theslob646 wrote:
               | You're conveniently forgetting out the nuance of the MTA.
               | You do recall that the top person in the world for
               | Transit quit because of the bureaucracy there, right?
               | 
               | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43561378
        
               | chimeracoder wrote:
               | > You're conveniently forgetting out the nuance of the
               | MTA. You do recall that the top person in the world for
               | Transit quit because of the bureaucracy there, right?
               | 
               | Byford quit because of Andrew Cuomo, the then-governor,
               | not because of bureaucracy within the MTA. This was
               | widely reported even _before_ his resignation was
               | official, but was confirmed explicitly later on[0].
               | 
               | > _To use a transit analogy, Byford fled the MTA because
               | he felt like he had been tied to the tracks while a train
               | driven by Andrew Cuomo cut his legs off, Kramer reported_
               | 
               | Which is my point: the governing authorities make
               | political decisions to starve the MTA of funding or
               | cancel capital projects at the last minute, which harms
               | the MTA in the long run and creates many of the problems
               | that people end up blaming the MTA for.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/exclusive-andy-
               | byford-m...
        
             | chpatrick wrote:
             | I live in Budapest and would definitely not prefer a
             | personal car. Public transport is super convenient, cheap
             | and fast here, and I don't need to worry about parking,
             | fuel, congestion or maintenance.
        
             | cmiller1 wrote:
             | Mass transit and personal cars aren't necessarily mutually
             | exclusive:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | They are mutually exclusive in the US because space for
               | cars (current US sized cars) means everything is farther
               | apart, which means the public transit is not economical,
               | or lots of walking. And walking is more dangerous for
               | pedestrians due to inattentive drivers and large arterial
               | roads with wide crossings.
               | 
               | The constraints lead to completely opposite designs,
               | which is why only very few, very dense cities in the
               | world have convenient public transit, and they also
               | happen to be inconvenient for personal cars.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Plenty of metros run at 5 minute frequencies or less. Some
             | _trams_ do, at peak times.
        
               | acjohnson55 wrote:
               | The highest frequency subway lines do 3 mins at peak,
               | which is amazing.
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | The Victoria Line in London has a _100 second_ interval,
               | although apparently in practise it 's more frequent:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ0zk4MWCQY
               | 
               | From a quick search, there are also lines in Paris and
               | Moscow with similar frequency.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | There's a tram line in Dublin which hits every three
               | minutes at peak times, which is just bonkers (it's not
               | fully segregated, so if there's any traffic problem at
               | all then about four of them end up piled up one behind
               | the other). Its most busy section was meant to be
               | converted to metro, but due to planning permission
               | nonsense it will just continue to be one of the world's
               | busiest tram lines until at least 2040 (it is actually
               | higher peak time capacity than many metro lines at this
               | point).
               | 
               | They just got permission to go from 22 to 26 trams per
               | hour at peak times. I'm thinking that by the time it gets
               | metro-ified it'll just be a continuous procession.
        
             | acjohnson55 wrote:
             | In a car, you still need to park, which in NYC might take
             | 20 mins and still leave you blocks from your destination.
             | The other difference is what you can do with your travel
             | time. While driving, you're limited to passive activities.
             | Cabs and ride share solve this, for a price.
             | 
             | But people do love car travel, regardless of the problems.
             | I have a buddy who would nearly always opt for Uber, even
             | at times when traffic made it slower than the subway.
        
       | baq wrote:
       | Technical term is isochrone map:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochrone_map
        
         | kittikitti wrote:
         | Thank you so much for this, I have trouble communicating time
         | from maps even though its often so interconnected and this
         | concept opens it up.
        
       | pella wrote:
       | "Full code for the isochrone workflow is available on"
       | 
       | https://github.com/chriswhong/nyc-subway-isochrones
        
         | davidw wrote:
         | Mapbox also provides an isochrone API:
         | https://docs.mapbox.com/playground/isochrone/
        
       | intexpress wrote:
       | Jackson Heights is the winner here
        
         | acjohnson55 wrote:
         | The loser is 241st in the Bronx. Can't even get out of the
         | Borough.
         | 
         | Unless we're also considering Staten Island, which few do :)
        
           | mgce wrote:
           | Also the Rockaways, which are famous for being remote and
           | poorly transit-served.
        
       | saltcod wrote:
       | Very cool project
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | I'm of the opinion that every 500k+ city should have a subway
       | line.
       | 
       | I grew up in a city with one (just _one_ for the majority of my
       | 20 years there) and if there 's one thing I miss from that place
       | it's the ability to move at an _average_ speed of 35km /h at any
       | time the trains were operating, especially at 2am on a Friday
       | night after a couple of beers with the guys.
       | 
       | The other thing I noticed when I was visiting my family there
       | during the recent holidays is that there are so few cars in
       | places close to the subway lines - roughly half the usual
       | concentration. The incentive to have one is just not strong
       | enough.
        
         | xvedejas wrote:
         | I'm of the opinion that it depends on density. You could build
         | a subway line in some US cities of 1M and nobody would ride it;
         | you could build a subway line in a city of 50k and everyone
         | would ride it. It depends on whether there is density to
         | support walking directly to many things (businesses,
         | residences, and other transit lines) or not.
        
           | HPsquared wrote:
           | The subway is the big expensive investment. In theory,
           | businesses and housing etc would develop around the stations.
           | Like how suburbs develop around train stations.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | In theory. The commuter rail I sometimes take follows an
             | old rail right of way. Some of the stations are in fairly
             | developed areas. But some of those, like Concord,
             | presumably predate even the original rail. And a lot of the
             | towns are pretty spread out. You can't walk to much until
             | you get to the last two stops in the city proper.
        
               | jonahrd wrote:
               | This is because the T is not a "real" transit system in
               | the way that it's simply not designed to move enough
               | people fast enough to compete with cars.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Well, if I'm going into the city 9 to 5ish I'll usually
               | take commuter rail because it's less painful even if it
               | takes as long as driving. But I do need to drive to and
               | park at the nearby commuter rail station.
        
               | macNchz wrote:
               | I imagine that at least one factor there is that building
               | up is prohibited by zoning--a super brief glance at
               | Concord's zoning map & code it looks like the only kind
               | of residential buildings you can build anywhere without
               | special permission are single-family.
               | 
               | Now there are surely people living there who would argue
               | that this zoning has protected the shape and nature of
               | the town they that they prefer, but the flip side of that
               | coin is that, at $1.4m, a median home in Concord costs
               | more than 3x that of the country overall.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | There's probably some truth in that. On the other hand,
               | Concord is a pretty far-flung suburb; you're probably
               | over 30 minutes to get to Cambridge without heavy
               | traffic. I believe the prison out there is closed now but
               | don't know what the plans are for the land.
        
             | llamaimperative wrote:
             | And then landowners who were "smart" enough to own land
             | where this ends up going in get to reap all the financial
             | upside, instead of the public which actually invested in
             | that infrastructure.
             | 
             | Just imagine if the public could capture the (financial)
             | upside it produces, then it could apply that money to do
             | the same thing down the road, then do the same thing again
             | down the road further.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George_theorem?wprov=sf
             | t...
        
               | showerst wrote:
               | A version of this is common now in the US through Tax
               | Increment Financing.
               | 
               | https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/value_capture/defined/tax_in
               | cre...
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I don't see how that is a version of what llamaimperative
               | posts.
               | 
               | If anything, TIF increases rewards for landowners who do
               | nothing or otherwise underutilize land. Taxing the
               | product of work to make a piece of land beneficial for
               | society is amazingly backwards.
               | 
               | The proper direction to go in is marginal land value tax
               | rates, with increasing penalties the longer a spaces
               | remains unused.
        
               | icegreentea2 wrote:
               | In some countries the transit companies (public or
               | private) also become the landowners of the adjacent areas
               | - this would be the "rail plus property" model.
               | 
               | In fact, the rail plus property model allows the rail
               | operate to better capture their added value, so it
               | applies even in "private" scenarios. The most famous
               | example would be Tokyo.
               | 
               | The goal shouldn't be for the public to be able to reap
               | direct financial benefits from the induced activity
               | around transit hubs, the goal should be to firstly to
               | incentivize and maintain affordable, high quality,
               | sustainable transit, secondly to provide more and better
               | economic opportunities.
        
               | shipp02 wrote:
               | This is the case in Hong Kong as well. The subway company
               | is also involved in the malls built on top of them.
               | 
               | There are malls and neighborhoods built entirely around
               | the subway station
        
               | RhysU wrote:
               | > Just imagine if the public could capture the
               | (financial) upside it produces...
               | 
               | Like through taxes on the sale of the property or the
               | increased business income it produces? The public will.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | No, taxes on the unimproved value of the land
        
               | jeromegv wrote:
               | This typically goes to the higher level of government.
               | Not the local one that manage and build that transit
               | system.
        
           | balderdash wrote:
           | Density yes, but more importantly 1) speed vs traveling by
           | car, 2) starting and stopping in places people want to travel
           | between, 3) safety, 4) real estate prices/regulation.
           | 
           | Density goes to number 1 (more traffic = better reason to use
           | the subway) and 2 (more likely to be able to serve people's
           | desired trip)
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Also the shape of density.
           | 
           | A small city in a straight line along the coast is going to
           | get a lot more mileage out of a single line than something
           | spread out across a plain.
        
         | telesilla wrote:
         | If not a subway at least some form of transport that won't get
         | stuck in gridlock. Three examples I can think of are the
         | Wuppertal suspension railway, Las Vegas monorail (though more
         | of a tourist pull than for the locals) and the dedicated
         | Metrobus lanes in Mexico City.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertal_Schwebebahn
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Monorail
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metrob%C3%BAs
         | 
         | What others have I missed?
         | 
         | (btw I never noticed before that HN can't handle UTF-8 chars in
         | urls)
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | American cities of 500k people really don't see gridlock
           | though. Maybe a couple blocks downtown by the highway ramps
           | thats it.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | yes, but wikipedia _can_ handle unaccented
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Metrobus
        
           | Gh0stRAT wrote:
           | You missed Adelaide's O-Bahn, which is another way to
           | mitigate the "buses get stuck in traffic" problem.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O-Bahn_Busway
        
             | telesilla wrote:
             | This is fantastic. How do the locals experience a bus
             | suddenly in the air? Does it feel safe?
        
           | oblio wrote:
           | They don't need silly suspension railways in most places. A
           | tram line fits perfectly in 1 lane, so that would make it 2
           | lanes for both ways. US lanes are so wide that it's likely 2
           | tram rails fit in 1.5 road lanes, with a bit of extra room
           | for wider sidewalks (sorely needed in most of the US), bike
           | lanes (also sorely needed in most of the US) or just general
           | greenery (hedges would do wonders for US urban
           | landscapes...).
           | 
           | Of course this would require that the 3-4 lane stroads give
           | up 2 of their carlanes so instead of doing the reasonable
           | thing, building infrastructure costing 10x is almost
           | universally preferred.
           | 
           | Heck, it doesn't even need to be a tram. BRTs are good enough
           | for a lot of cases.
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | Having lived in / visited a few dozen cities in Europe, I
         | actually think trams are generally preferable to subways. In
         | places with both, I tend to use the trams almost exclusively.
         | 
         | A hop on, hop off tram system is much quicker and efficient
         | than going into a subway station, then back up, etc. At least
         | if you aren't going entirely across town.
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | Trams do need dedicated lanes.
        
             | markkanof wrote:
             | Not necessarily. Unless I am misunderstanding what
             | specifically is being referred to as a tram. In Portland,
             | Oregon for example, we have small trains that run at street
             | level and share lanes with automobile traffic.
        
               | tallowen wrote:
               | Portland's trams don't move anywhere close to 35mph as
               | the OP mentioned. Portland's trams are quite capacity
               | constrained due to needing to navigate the short blocks
               | and many intersections of downtown Portland. Dedicated
               | travel cooridors where these trams could move at closer
               | to 35mph would allow trips _through_ downtown to become
               | competitive which currently are often not ideal.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | The streetcars in Portland OR are useful on some routes
               | but they're pretty much painfully slow around downtown.
        
             | keiferski wrote:
             | Depends on the city, but in most places the lanes are wide
             | enough that a tram-designated area isn't really an issue.
             | Even then, it wouldn't be a horrible idea if an avenue
             | (running north-south) or two in Manhattan had one less lane
             | for cars and one more for trams.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > * trams are generally preferable to subways. In places with
           | both, I tend to use the trams almost exclusively*
           | 
           | In towns with trams I've found Ubers almost always faster.
           | That said, most American trams are at grade, so you get a bus
           | that can't change lanes.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | What makes for a more pleasant experience is not necessarily
           | the optimal choice for commuters as subway wins over trams by
           | close to an order of magnitude in terms of throughput.
           | 
           | In the city I grew up in during rush hour subway trains leave
           | less than every two and a half minutes and pack well over a
           | thousand commuters each. That is an impossible feat for even
           | the best tram system, as they're limited both in vehicle and
           | station length, not to mention speed, as you can't have 40
           | tonnes of metal hurtling at 80km/h through intersections.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | I disagree. Trams are too slow. They are not good for long
           | tracks, like sub ways.
        
         | 7thpower wrote:
         | Have you spent much time in ~500k cities? Many of them have a
         | lot of sprawl and very little traffic.
        
         | umanwizard wrote:
         | Where would you put the subway line in Tucson, AZ?
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | I'm no city planner, but I would definitely connect the
           | Amrtak station with the University of Arizona and on the
           | other end make it reach the edge of downtown.
           | 
           | The rest of the city is really spread out with all those
           | detached houses, so I'm out of ideas but then again my city
           | put a subway station in such a location and it serves a
           | whopping fifteen hundred people daily - that's one subway
           | car, but at the same time appropriately a thousand fewer cars
           | on the road. Still worth it in my book.
        
             | umanwizard wrote:
             | > I'm no city planner, but I would definitely connect the
             | Amrtak station with the University of Arizona and on the
             | other end make it reach the edge of downtown.
             | 
             | I went to U. of A. and have absolutely never even _heard_
             | of any student ever needing to go to the Amtrak station,
             | for any reason. Not trying to be rude, but that smells like
             | unthinkingly-applied urbanist ideology -- thinking "trains
             | are cool" and working backwards from there.
             | 
             | But sure, people do go to that area for nightlife, so let's
             | assume you said something like "Hotel Congress" instead of
             | "the Amtrak station". Still, that's less than 3km from
             | campus -- even if there were no transit options, you could
             | bike, walk, take a rental scooter or an uber.
             | 
             | But if none of those options work, fear not, there is
             | already a streetcar that basically covers exactly your
             | proposed route: https://www.suntran.com/wp-
             | content/uploads/2021/06/Sun-Link-... . So why would it make
             | sense to spend a giant sum on a subway to replicate the
             | streetcar over this tiny area?
             | 
             | > The rest of the city is really spread out with all those
             | detached houses, so I'm out of ideas
             | 
             | That's my point. Your claim that any 500k city could
             | benefit from a subway is wildly over-general. It entirely
             | depends on the type of city.
        
               | Tade0 wrote:
               | I get where you're coming from as I have a lot of words
               | to say to those urbanist ideologues and none of them are
               | pleasant.
               | 
               | Main reason why I think subway is superior to anything,
               | including trains riding on the surface, is that it
               | doesn't get in the way of anything.
               | 
               | My current city is subject to a double whammy of a train
               | and river system. The result is of course gridlock, as
               | bridges have limited capacity and not all train crossings
               | could be made into viaducts. Having a single subway line
               | would greatly improve things, but alas - the city is in
               | debt due to having built a football stadium which went
               | way over budget.
               | 
               | That being said to me American cities stretch the
               | definition of cities. If there's no functional difference
               | between a district within city limits and a suburb, why
               | bother with having a distinction? I mean, we have
               | districts of detached houses in my corner of the world,
               | but they're former villages absorbed by cities and are
               | gradually being densified.
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | With subway lines costing a billion dollars a mile that just
         | makes no sense.
        
       | bdunks wrote:
       | I love this. I agree with the "about" that it's visually
       | compelling, and I'm mesmerized.
       | 
       | This doesn't detract from my enjoyment the site, but for trip
       | planning I'm a little skeptical of the results around the edges,
       | especially when I'm assuming multiple transfers would be required
       | (e.g., Local -> Express -> Express -> Local).
       | 
       | With a caveat this was over 10 years ago (~2012-2013), and train
       | frequencies may have changed:
       | 
       | I used to live pretty far up on the upper west side, and took the
       | 1 train from the 103rd street station daily. My weekday route was
       | 1 -> 2/3 -> 7 into midtown. The 20 minute radius is accurate at
       | peak times, when it only takes 2-3 minutes to catch a transfer.
       | However, the website "about" makes an assumption this is for noon
       | on a weekday. I don't think I ever made it to Brooklyn in under
       | 40 minutes.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Does it also work at 3am?
        
         | jpalawaga wrote:
         | It does. New York's system is one of only a handful in the
         | world that operates all (or nearly all) lines 24/7.
        
           | acjohnson55 wrote:
           | The level of redundancy in the NYC subway is marvelous. In
           | most of the densest areas, you have 4-track lines and often
           | other lines within a mile. It makes it possible to do
           | maintenance while still offering 24/7 service.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I don't see any violations of locality here.
        
         | rst wrote:
         | There are a few -- select the 79th street station on the #1
         | line (farthest west in Manhattan) and look at Brooklyn, due
         | pretty much directly south. The 36th Street station on the
         | D/N/R lines is reachable in 40 minutes because it gets express
         | service, but the stations to the north and south are local
         | stops, and for that reason, take longer to get to.
        
       | _kb wrote:
       | There a pretty neat free tool - http://pedestriancatch.com - that
       | will also let you run walkability simulation anywhere with
       | OpenStreetMap data. Great for when you're moving or exploring
       | somewhere new.
        
       | dzonga wrote:
       | nice too. but been a while since I lived in NY. what these things
       | don't tell ya is how frequent the trains break down. my morning
       | commute would be 30 mins on a packed train, but the evening train
       | would be 2x-3x that time due to trains / track issues.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | Travel times would be much improved by a high speed line.
       | 
       | Ie. a route with 4 stops and a travel speed of 100 mph.
       | 
       | The finances of railways actually get better with faster trains -
       | because the sooner you can get the person to their destination,
       | the quicker you can get that train serving another passenger.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | MTA runs express trains. They don't get up to 100mph, but they
         | skip many local stops along the way. Raising their speed to
         | 100mph would likely not meaningfully increase transit time -
         | you'd maybe shave off a few minutes.
        
           | bob_theslob646 wrote:
           | I wonder if there was a way to calculate how many more
           | passengers they could serve if they had faster trains?
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | You do realize that Manhattan is only 14 miles long? With a
         | stop every 3 miles even a Shinkansen wouldn't reach 100mph
         | before it had to start slowing down again.
        
           | bob_theslob646 wrote:
           | According to chatgpt, the max speed is higher than what you
           | stated and is 155mph before needing to slow down.
        
         | pieix wrote:
         | Are there any metros with intra-city high speed trains like
         | this?
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | In London you can take a high speed train from St Pancras to
           | Stratford, though it's a normal high speed train that then
           | continues far outside the city.
           | 
           | It's the blue+yellow line which goes off the east side:
           | https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-
           | map...
           | 
           | I don't think that's unusual for very large cities with high
           | speed trains. The longest-distance trains probably only stop
           | at one station in each city, but medium-distance trains can
           | stop at multiple.
           | 
           | I've never come across a metro train travelling that fast
           | though. The cost of building the line to support those speeds
           | would be tremendous for a small difference in journey time.
        
         | notjustanymike wrote:
         | Some kind of Metro (that runs) North?
        
       | matv wrote:
       | Very cool!
        
       | jimmySixDOF wrote:
       | Nice effort and just shows you how far the art/science of dataviz
       | has come with the ability of websites to work like realtime game
       | engines.
       | 
       | This is the same information visually expressed in a grid chart
       | from 1983 by Edward Tufte (The Visual Display of Quantitative
       | Information). While the method can't scale the same way it feels
       | like a more creative approach :
       | 
       | https://www.edwardtufte.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/VDQI-...
        
         | seabass-labrax wrote:
         | I wouldn't say that Maray's chart as cited by Tufte is directly
         | comparable: it displays the timings of trains along a one-
         | dimensional railway, therefore displaying two dimensions of
         | continuous data for each train (the second dimension being
         | time). The online map displays a two-dimensional area, with an
         | extra (quantized, not continuous) dimension of time with the
         | colour-coding. It's a tradeoff between displaying more
         | precision for fewer train timings or less precision for many
         | train timings.
        
       | piinbinary wrote:
       | Why don't any of the trains go into New Jersey? That seems like a
       | big wasted opportunity for adding more space that can easily
       | commute into the city.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | Trains do go into New Jersey from NYC. Just not MTA trains.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | Because it's the New York City subway.
         | 
         | There are trains that go to New Jersey - the PATH trains, as
         | well as NJtransit commuter trains that leave from Penn Station.
        
       | ryanhecht wrote:
       | Excellent information if you're playing Jet Lag: The Game's[1]
       | home game[2]
       | 
       | 1: https://www.youtube.com/c/jetlagthegame
       | 
       | 2: https://store.nebula.tv/products/hideandseek
        
         | CSMastermind wrote:
         | I've been meaning to try it out in NYC because it seems like
         | that's one of few geos they playtested. It's super fun in other
         | cities but you have to modify the rules and cards a bunch to
         | make it work.
        
           | ryanhecht wrote:
           | I'm a huge theme park nut that lives in Orlando - I'm trying
           | to design a version that can work across Walt Disney World
           | (or maybe even ALL of Orlando's theme park campuses).
           | 
           | Photos pose a huge challenge because my friends (fellow theme
           | park nuts) can pick out the smallest details in every park --
           | even the color of pavement and themed lighting fixtures! I'm
           | having fun thinking of what adaptations to make.
           | 
           | Agreed that this product would be better as a game design
           | framework rather than a ready-to-play game in any geo (and
           | tbh, would be a better fit for what Jet Lag is all about:
           | people designing games for themselves to play!)
        
             | CSMastermind wrote:
             | So I actually live in Orlando and bought the game with the
             | intent of doing exactly that...
             | 
             | I'm not a theme park nut but that seemed like a fun way to
             | play the game (actually I was thinking Universal might work
             | better but I wasn't sure).
             | 
             | Definitely share if come up with something good.
        
       | jklein11 wrote:
       | Super cool! Its kinda crazy how out of the loop JFK airport is
        
         | ghthor wrote:
         | I made the mistake of trying to use subway to get to JFK. That
         | day I learned the way was to take the LIRR from grand central
         | station.
        
         | notjustanymike wrote:
         | Shockingly easy to get to though. LIRR to Jamaica, then
         | AirTrain. Usually faster than a car, and more predictable than
         | taking the A (which you have to be careful to choose the right
         | one).
        
       | fldskfjdslkfj wrote:
       | It's crazy how dysfunctional the state structure can be - in any
       | functioning country the subway would extend to NJ.
        
         | marcinzm wrote:
         | The PATH train does exactly that.
        
           | fldskfjdslkfj wrote:
           | the PATH train is a lousy a replacement. Just look at the
           | connectivity and coverage of NJ vs Queens & Brooklyn:
           | 
           | https://stewartmader.com/wp-content/uploads/Subway-NY-NJ-
           | sca...
        
             | marcinzm wrote:
             | That's a separate issue versus trains going to/from NYC.
             | They do.
        
             | acjohnson55 wrote:
             | The Jersey side is so sad, for one of the country's most
             | densely populated areas.
        
           | acjohnson55 wrote:
           | It would make much more sense for it to be unified with the
           | MTA subway, with more connectivity. My dream would be a
           | single seat ride from Newark Airport to Atlantic Terminal in
           | Brooklyn, via Newark Penn Station and World Trade Center.
           | 
           | There was also once a proposal to have the 7 train go out to
           | Seacaucus Junction, which would be huge for accessing the
           | East Side for NJers.
        
             | marcinzm wrote:
             | I wonder if the real limit is tunnels. Connectivity doesn't
             | fix the issue of physical limits on tunnel capacity and the
             | massive cost of new tunnels.
        
               | acjohnson55 wrote:
               | If you're talking about underwater, I don't think that's
               | the problem compared to running track through populated
               | areas, whether that's through tunnels, cut-and-cover, at-
               | grade or viaduct.
        
             | balderdash wrote:
             | It blows my mind there isn't the equivalent of the Heathrow
             | express in nyc (even if it was just a regular express train
             | subway)
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | In London, you also have the Piccadilly line depending
               | upon where you're going and how much luggage you have
               | (many of the London tube stations are pretty awful in
               | terms of accessibility as I discovered on a trip where I
               | had heavier luggage than normal last year).
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | Since 2022 there's also the Elizabeth Line, which uses
               | the same tracks as the Heathrow Express, but then
               | continues under Central London and far to the east.
               | 
               | It takes 27 rather than 15 minutes to Paddington, but
               | it's also half the price of the Heathrow Express.
               | 
               | It's the purple edged line:
               | https://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-
               | map...
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Right. But I usually stay near Trafalgar Square and the
               | Piccadilly line is much more convenient for that. (Though
               | I will be taking the Elizabeth line outbound my next trip
               | because I'm initially going to Shoreditch. And, yes,
               | Heathrow Express is something of a rip-off which the
               | airport steers you towards.)
        
             | rangestransform wrote:
             | That would cause a huge headache for the NYC side to be
             | subject to FRA regulations, it's a big part of why PATH
             | costs so much to run
        
         | SJetKaran wrote:
         | Big +1, and an obvious observation for anyone who moved here
        
         | marstall wrote:
         | it does, check out PATH.
        
         | ahstilde wrote:
         | Transit in NJ is served by PATH, NJ Transit Rail, and NJ
         | Transit Light Rail
         | 
         | They share multiple exchanges.
         | 
         | Crossing state lines causes regulations to triple (new state,
         | and federal), so this is what we have.
        
         | umanwizard wrote:
         | There _is_ a subway that connects Manhattan and NJ, called the
         | PATH. Unfortunately it's run by a completely different
         | organization, which I agree is silly.
        
       | jpalawaga wrote:
       | Something here is not quite right. For example, if you look at
       | the 7th ave line (red line/1,2,3) 18th street and 14th street
       | have similar radii.
       | 
       | But anyone knows that 14th street is much more convenient because
       | it's triply serviced by the 1,2,3 with 2,3 being express trains.
       | 18th street is serviced by one train the runs locally. This
       | ignores that you could easily switch to the L, A/C/E, F/M with a
       | short walk.
       | 
       | Still, a cool visualization to show the power of mass transit,
       | and even compare relatively between lines.
        
         | mannykannot wrote:
         | I see what you mean. According to this map, you can get from
         | the 18th. street station to the 1st ave. stop on the L in ten
         | minutes, but not from 14th. street.
        
       | anyonecancode wrote:
       | Cool! Though the data must be a bit noisy as you get some
       | oddities. For instance, if you select Astoria/Ditmars (last top,
       | NW Queens) the Flushing/Main Street stop (last stop of purple --
       | go directly west on map from Astoria) is out of range. Click
       | Flushing/Mains Street, though, and Astoria/Ditmars is in the 40
       | minute range.
        
       | 65 wrote:
       | I live in NYC and I can tell you... these times seem optimistic.
        
         | rst wrote:
         | They're assuming very quick transfers (rush hour service). But
         | then again, a lot of transit planning seems to assume rush hour
         | commutes are the only reason why it's there.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | > Isochrones are manually calculated using turf.js assuming
       | 1.2m/s walking speed after the subway trip.
       | 
       | This is super cool, and I don't want the following statement to
       | be taken as a criticism, because it's an unrealistic expectation:
       | I do not rely on estimates like this until they are ground-
       | truthed.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | I wonder if they factored in the time to walk to and from the
         | surface and platform here. Also intersection signal patterns on
         | the surface.
        
       | binary132 wrote:
       | I've always wanted a feature like this in Zillow for filtering
       | the results by commute time to a given destination, but this is
       | even cooler!
        
       | bowsamic wrote:
       | Much slower than I would have guessed
        
       | ahstilde wrote:
       | This is great. It doesn't paint a full picture, however. It's
       | certainly possible to go farther leveraging the other rail lines
       | in the area: PATH, LIRR, Metro North, NJ Transit Light Rail
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Depends what your transfer process looks like. Some of those
         | trains are not very frequent at all outside the 9-5 commute
         | pattern.
        
           | bob_theslob646 wrote:
           | Well it depends because they added the Grand Central line so
           | that you can get from the middle of Manhattan to Queens
           | fairly quickly as Grand Central stop at Jamaica station on
           | the Long Island railroad which is a hack to getting to JFK
           | without having to use the Subway.
        
       | AbstractH24 wrote:
       | I love it, but as someone who lives in Queens I think it's
       | underestimating by maybe 20% or 30%, particularly when a transfer
       | or significant walking is involved (and I walk quite fast)
        
         | cooljacob204 wrote:
         | Yeah, I wish I could get from Astoria to Forest Hills in only
         | 40 minutes.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | There seems to be a bug:
       | 
       | Click on Howard beach (JFK Airport), then on Broad Channel. The
       | times are not updated.
        
       | dave333 wrote:
       | But how long does it take to get to Mornington Crescent?
        
         | dave333 wrote:
         | Assuming multi-modal travel is allowed of course.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Apparently you can walk to North Brother Island in 20 minutes
       | from 138th St.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I'm curious how the creator chose 40 minutes as the cutoff
       | because I use the same cutoff. Less than 40 minutes is normal,
       | ordinary, wouldn't think twice about it. More than 40 minutes is
       | an outrage, preposterous, is this place even still in NY?
        
       | ourmandave wrote:
       | This feels like a question you would ask if you were a level
       | designer for a zombie video game.
        
       | TZubiri wrote:
       | Logistically, space is not euclidean.
        
       | cyberax wrote:
       | Yeah. Isochrones are great, because they clearly show the
       | inferiority of ANY type of public transit to cars.
        
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