[HN Gopher] Calm tech certification "rewards" less distracting tech
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Calm tech certification "rewards" less distracting tech
Author : headalgorithm
Score : 362 points
Date : 2025-01-21 15:12 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (spectrum.ieee.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (spectrum.ieee.org)
| Minor49er wrote:
| I was trying to read the article about less-distracting tech, but
| I was distracted by a "create an account" popup that covered the
| screen while doing so
| cesarvarela wrote:
| And the cookies banner and the related stories column...
| abeppu wrote:
| > requires an instruction booklet with a list of replacements and
| compatible parts
|
| I appreciate this but it doesn't seem like it belongs in a
| certification about calmness per se. Even annoying tech should be
| clear about the extent to which parts are replaceable.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| This is the danger with certifications: Making the
| certification too broad, causes very few things to be
| certified. Very few things being certified, means nobody knows
| why the certification matters.
|
| In my mind, repairability, "calmness," accessibility - it's all
| separate.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Think of calm as the opposite of surprised. As in, wow I'm
| surprised this computer has a proprietary soldered on SSD I
| can't replace! I am no longer calm!
| remoquete wrote:
| Amber Case's book on Calm Technology and design was a great read.
| Perhaps as a consequence of having studied Cognitive Science, I
| find this one to be the best book I've read on feature design --
| and not just for software.
|
| It's full of easily digestible insights on attention and context,
| with excellent examples and clear explanations. It's almost
| philosophical in its apparent simplicity.
| eikenberry wrote:
| What were some of these insights?
| remoquete wrote:
| The most important is that tech must stay at the periphery of
| the user's attention. Of course one cannot apply this to
| Candy Crush...
| jf wrote:
| I wasn't able to find a full list of all Calm Tech certified
| devices, but it looks like the union of these two URLs lists most
| of what they have certified:
|
| https://www.calmtech.institute/calm-tech-certification
|
| https://www.calmtech.institute/blog/tags/calm-tech-certified
| jbm wrote:
| I own that timer, or an Aliexpress knockoff there-of. It is
| great and helps my kids with their homework.
|
| The daylight computer looked interesting too; but its website
| undermines the message it seems to give. I wanted a price and
| to order and could do neither, but there were long paragraphs
| about how revolutionary it was, with left to right and up-to-
| down transitions.
| Animats wrote:
| Looking at the full list of certified devices:
|
| - AirThing View Plus: "This is placeholder text. To change this
| content, double-click on the element and click Change Content."
| Supposedly this has seven sensors, but only displays two
| values. How does that work? The values are displayed as
| numbers, too. A bar chart with green, yellow, and red sections
| would "calmer"
|
| - Daylight Computer - Placeholder text again. No specs. What
| does it actually do? Writing only? Web browsing? Dark grey on
| off-white text, which looks like low-end E-Ink.
|
| - Time Timer - looks fine, although everybody else's timers
| count down counterclockwise. How much does it cost? If it's
| $10, great If it's $100, come on.
|
| - Unplug - if you need that, you have other problems.
|
| This is disappointing. It's like the junk that used to be
| advertised in the magazines that were provided in airline seat
| backs. These are all non-problems or easy hits. They need
| something more useful, such as a more usable TV remote or home
| control unit or car infotainment system. Those all run from bad
| to worse.
|
| I've run into "simple interface" people a few times. One was a
| guy who was plugging his book about how clever their design for
| a seat-back entertainment system was. He had a model of four
| typical users and how they'd use it to pick from a rather short
| list of alternatives. I'd already read the book. I said, why
| not just have a channel selector knob? Then it comes out that
| the thing had a payment interface for pay per view. That wasn't
| mentioned when they were explaining how simple it was.
|
| A few years ago, there was someone who wanted to build a GUI
| for some common Linux tool to promote their design shop. I
| suggested tackling Git, which really needs a GUI. That was too
| hard.
|
| This goes way back. In the 1930s, there was a thing for radios
| with One Knob. Here's a 1950s TV ad for that.[1] There was a
| long period during which radios and TVs had a large number of
| knobs to be adjusted to get decent results. That was finally
| overcome.
|
| My favorite simple interface is General Railway Signal's NX
| system.[1] This is the first "intelligent user interface", from
| 1936. What makes it "intelligent" is that, when a train is
| entering the interlocking, the dispatcher selects the incoming
| track, and then all the possible exit points light up. They
| pick the desired exit and push its button. The system then sets
| up the route, setting the signals and switches. Conflicts with
| other routes are detected, so this is safe. If there are
| alternate routes, NX can route around other trains. The
| previous technology was that the dispatcher had to figure out
| which switches and signals to set themselves. There was
| interlocking to prevent hazardous setups, but the lever
| machines couldn't plan a route.
|
| This kind of UX design is really important and usually botched.
|
| [1] https://anyflip.com/lbes/vczg
| wink wrote:
| > This goes way back. In the 1930s, there was a thing for
| radios with One Knob. Here's a 1950s TV ad for that.[1] There
| was a long period during which radios and TVs had a large
| number of knobs to be adjusted to get decent results. That
| was finally overcome.
|
| As I'm not sure if you're arguing for or against... I am
| generally pro digital for radios and TVs, and automatic seek
| is nice - but I've had it in (analog) car radios that the .05
| or whatever resolution wasn't good enough, so a good old
| potentiometer knob helps.
|
| But ever since I'm not sure if the best UX design exists.
| People have different problems to solve, and apparently "my
| favourite radio station has a weak signal" is one of them.
| Never had this problem with TVs auto-scanning for stations.
| Animats wrote:
| Look further back. The "one knob" concept was a reaction to
| tuned radiofrequency receivers of the 1920s and 1930s.[1]
| Those required the user to perform simultaneous,
| coordinated adjustment of three tuning knobs. The big
| advantage of superheterodyne receivers was that tuning only
| required One Knob. All they needed was a tuning knob and a
| volume control/on-off switch. That technology replaced TRF
| receivers, and radios became a mass-market product anyone
| could use.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_radio_frequency_rec
| eiver
| agumonkey wrote:
| I can't stop thinking that we're circling back to how "tech" was
| before when it was limited because it fits our needs better.
| Slower, some complexity, less possibilities at every time.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Yes I think the smartphone is an instance of "Your scientists
| were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't
| stop to think if they should.", when tech had higher
| constraints there was more thought put into determining what
| was essential.
|
| When I want to put on headphones to do chores around the house
| I pick up my 2006-era iPod. No wireless pairing to screw with,
| no distracting notifications, just a library of music I've
| already listened to a hundred times so I can just think, which
| of these albums am I in the mood for, and choose. The interface
| is simple to navigate because there's just not much _to_
| navigate, and IMO that goes a long way to have a predictable
| experience that never introduces frustration.
| agumonkey wrote:
| The irony is that, the iphone era was somehow everything I
| wanted to see. But indeed this unified (incredible) device,
| ends up being a sink in itself that sucks so much of your
| thoughts to provide very few on average (there's some fun
| stuff given by having a pocket computer to be fair).
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| For me the tipping point was when I could no longer FTP
| files to my android phone. Not much of a computer IMO !
| mhh__ wrote:
| In the west I guess there's some truth to that but I think
| phones have been emancipatory in the poorer parts of the
| world.
| constantcrying wrote:
| But the universality of phones also made them great _tools_.
| Maps, calls, messages all can be enormously beneficial.
|
| The problem comes when they are both a tool and an
| entertainment device, as they are inseparably linked
| together.
| agumonkey wrote:
| I think the universality hides the fact that these are not
| really made to stay in the flow of life but to be cute and
| shiny in themselves, capturing your attention instead of
| being the shortest path on providing what you need to keep
| going. Then there's the instability of platform (plethora
| of messaging apps..), the usual ad infestation (google maps
| now shows a lot of local shop whether you asked for it or
| not) etc etc. Old devices had to be tailored and became a
| side element in your life.
| kentm wrote:
| Even removing entertainment wouldn't solve the problem
| because these devices have been engineered to be ad
| delivery platforms. You would have to ban advertising on
| the device.
| hinkley wrote:
| Apple naysayers have been bitching at them for decades and
| decades about how simplistic their apps are and how they need
| to wake up and join the real world by adding features K-Z to
| their apps in ordered to be considered a real product.
|
| Meanwhile Apple has had to wipe away their tears at such harsh
| treatment with their gigantic piles of cash.
|
| To this day I don't understand why we have half a dozen
| automakers creating sleek vehicles that take care of things
| automagically but in computers it's just Apple. Where's the
| Audi and Lexus of computers?
| localghost3000 wrote:
| > Companies designing new products were unclear on what was
| right, or wrong, and uncertain about how they might put calm
| technology ideals into practice.
|
| Nope. That's not at all what the problem is. The problem is that
| when you implement features that respect the users attention an
| engagement metric dips slightly. And a shot caller notices. They
| roll the feature back. Because at the end of the day your calm
| means fuck all to the pursuit of endless growth.
| umutisik wrote:
| Tablets and phones could be calm tech too if they adjusted their
| brightness and white-point correctly based on ambient lighting.
| yapyap wrote:
| I doubt those are the uncalming aspects of tablets and phones,
| sure they're what keep you up at night on a physical level but
| not mentally.
| hammock wrote:
| + Greyscale + some kind of refresh rate limiter to 1-2Hz
| instead of 60-120hz :)
| 9021007 wrote:
| Sounds like you're describing an e-ink phone, which is
| actually a real product!
| hammock wrote:
| Yes. Or a smartphone with these settings (doesn't require
| you to spend $$)
| pushcart wrote:
| Are you somehow able to lower refresh rate below 60Hz on
| phones? Would love to do this if possible (have an
| Android)
|
| e: There's adb command to change the refresh rate: `adb
| shell settings put system min_refresh_rate 10.0`.
| Unfortunately my phone seems to have locked possible
| refresh rates to 60/90/120, any other values don't do
| anything. If someone wants to try this, there should be
| "Show refresh rate" setting under developer options which
| helps to detect if the adb command was successful or not.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| I thought an interesting move for the next Light Phone is to
| dedicate an entire knob to screen brightness [0], although they
| indicate it will be user programmable too.
|
| https://www.thelightphone.com/blog/light-iii-design-manifest...
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| My previous phone had a scheduled "night time mood" which put
| the display into greyscale. Without this there's an intensity
| to the screen that reducing the brightness doesn't fix.
| malfist wrote:
| Calm tech isn't about nit levels. It's about how much the tech
| inserts itself into your attention.
| wink wrote:
| Maybe that's the spirit but you'll always have people who
| would like a clock on the wall, always visible and others who
| don't, but don't mind touching a button for it to light up.
| So I think "calm" can't be objective.
| criddell wrote:
| I don't understand how the Daylight Computer, which is a full
| Android tablet, qualifies as _calm tech_.
| gagik_co wrote:
| I mean right now just seems to be one of those business that one
| pays to put a logo of a nice green checkmark or a tree to make
| your product seem more legit and ethical
|
| Sure it's nice to push bunch of nice UI patterns but I imagine
| most of the "certified" products weren't going to be attention
| hogs anyways. A positive outcome from something like this would
| be if governments started requiring these kind of certifications
| like they do for accessibility.
| motohagiography wrote:
| working on some product ideas now, finding that any code or set
| of interactions you can abstract up into an analog control loop
| is both calm and powerful.
|
| if you have a system where you can dynamically dial resources up
| and down to find an optimal output, that's a high value system. I
| think understanding this balance is how aesthetic properties
| translate into value.
| endofreach wrote:
| Need to try it here, dorry for OT: Does anyone know investors in
| europe looking to fund something a little moonshotty? What i've
| been working on is fundamentally "calm" at it's core, yet more
| advanced tech.
|
| Happy for any input (don't think VC is the route to go).
| pedalpete wrote:
| We're building a neuromodulation sleep headband, and we've always
| had the aim of getting to the point where the user puts it on, it
| does it's thing (slow-wave enhancement) the person takes it off
| in the morning and goes about their day.
|
| I don't even want to put IO into the device at all. Not only
| because it increases cost and size, but because I don't what the
| user having to interact. We have to find better ways to fit the
| device in your life, so you don't even think about it.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Woah can you tell us more about this? Seems like really cool
| tech
| pedalpete wrote:
| I've answered a bunch of questions in this thread about the
| tech. I'll be doing a bunch of blog posts about our unique
| take on the sleep space, and where our tech fits in as we
| lead up to pre-sales.
|
| There are a bunch of research papers on our website, as well
| as some very basic descriptions of how it works.
| https://affectablesleep.com
| 0_____0 wrote:
| I love tech like this. You put it on and it just does its
| thing. My HR monitor is like that, although if the receiving
| device doesn't immediately pair, it can be frustrating figuring
| out what's gone wrong.
| pedalpete wrote:
| This was one of my biggest concerns as all over the wearable
| space you see comments about "I couldn't get my device to
| connect".
|
| We haven't had too many issues with BLE, but I think the UI
| of the mobile app needs to clearly communicate the connection
| state, and not just "connected/disconnected" but more of
| "last connection, the device will ping in x seconds" so the
| person knows the device will be looking for the phone.
|
| We have a few tricks up our sleeve, as we're like Santa (we
| know when you are sleeping, we know when you're awake), and
| seeing as the headband is only used for sleeping, we can have
| an open connection when you are awake, and then go into low
| power mode when we detect you've closed your eyes, and then
| we can ping on a more reasonable schedule.
| bodge5000 wrote:
| I was working on a similar IO problem with wearables a while
| ago (though by the sounds of things, far less seriously than
| you are), and I had the idea that maybe that band/strap could
| function as an on-off switch, so when you undo the band (which
| you do when taking it off), it turns the device off, and vice
| versa. Could be something you could try too
| mystified5016 wrote:
| I'm putting capactive sensors in my wearables to turn them on
| when in contact with a human.
|
| I strongly believe that the class of widget I'm building
| should stay firmly out of the user's way. The point is to
| forget it's there. So, as simple IO as possible.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| This is a fun material you could use to detect if a band was
| stretched or not, silver coated elastic [0], near 0 ohm
| resistance when loose, resistance increases when stretched. I
| built a voltage divider with a patch of it when I was
| experimenting with fabric input devices, mostly just noise
| makers, but you can see how responsive it is [1]
|
| [0] https://lessemf.com/product/stretch-conductive-fabric/
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/Xjo4w4OiBS8
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| Polar H10 basically works like that. It's great until you are
| suddenly unable to connect to it via bluetooth, and have to
| blindly debug the reason. Is the device even on? Battery low?
| Broken? App issues? Who the fuck knows.
| pedalpete wrote:
| Yeah, you hit on a very important point. There are ways to
| handle this via lighting on the device (as far as,
| connected, battery, etc), and I think the app being clear
| about the state, beyond just "connected/not connected" is
| important.
|
| We've had very few issues with BLE, but it is one of the
| things I'm most worried about as it absolutely kills the
| experience.
| pedalpete wrote:
| We've taken a similar approach, I won't divulge exactly what
| we've done yet, but our goal was to not have a button that
| would have to be placed somewhere that it wasn't going to get
| pressed in the middle of the night, would have to be large
| enough to be usable, adding thickness to the headband at some
| point.
| adhoc_slime wrote:
| Do you get many people thinking this product is snakeoil?
| pedalpete wrote:
| I wish there were more!
|
| There is a ton of snake oil in the industry, and I see so
| many people building similar products, that take the language
| of the research papers, and apply it to absolute nonsense.
|
| There is over a decade of research in slow-wave enhancement,
| Philips funds a lot of research in this space, and even had a
| slow-wave enhancement device out in 2018/2019.
|
| I'm not sure if what you are asking is "are we snake oil", or
| "do I get people asking". But in general, I hear so many
| people talk about grounding mats (no scientific evidence),
| EMF, neuromodulation to put you to sleep instantly, and so
| much other garbage, that I wish people would question things
| more.
|
| I wish people knew how to read a basic research paper and
| decide if it even says what the company is claiming. I'm
| amazed that a company can put up a page that says "science",
| with a picture of a person in a lab coat, and people go "ok,
| must be true".
|
| We're on a long view of this, and while VCs are dumping tens
| of millions into snake oil "neuromodulation" companies, we're
| taking a slower approach and playing the long-term game.
|
| I'm keen to hear your thoughts.
| ranger207 wrote:
| I'm a little worried, in your example, that there might be some
| configuration required that could be frustrating without a way
| to do it on the device.
|
| For example, I helped someone transfer their stuff from their
| old iPhone to their new one a few years ago. The way you're
| supposed to do it is touch your old iPhone to the new one and
| it'll just work. Needless to say, it didn't. I think it was
| about an hour of rebooting the old and new ones before it
| finally caught. Since there weren't any logs or settings to
| change or any way at all to influence the process it was more
| frustrating than magic.
|
| Now, it's possible your product really is as simple as turning
| it on and it'll just work, in the same way a lamp is "turn on
| and it works", but if there's any configuration at all that the
| device does, please expose it to the users. Human brains are
| incredible at finding patterns, generally better than
| computers, and if there's a mismatch between the human's model
| of how something works and the device's model, it's best to
| allow the human to change the device's model
| Aardwolf wrote:
| Maybe this depends on the person, but I find a device with
| some buttons to configure it infinitely easier and less
| frustrating than an app.
|
| An app to my brain screams "depends on your phone and will be
| outdated at some point; requires picking and unlocking your
| phone to use it; will have updates that change/ruin it at
| some point".
|
| I just want to feel a button and press it, especially for
| things supposed to be used in the dark while sleeping.
| pedalpete wrote:
| I think there is the difference of calm in everyday use and
| initial set-up, maintenance, etc is...less calm.
|
| There are functions managed in the app but we aim for those
| to be rarely interacted with. All the interactions that you
| have with the device should be as simple as your wireless
| earbuds, maybe even easier.
| hcks wrote:
| At this point why not go low-tech and use healing crystals?
| cr125rider wrote:
| Magnets could be the premium tier
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| How does your headband work? I did some searching and it looks
| like there are 2 main technologies:
|
| 1. tES, transcranial electric stimulation, used by the Somnee
| sleep band.
|
| 2. acoustic stimulation (sound waves), used by the Elemind
| sleep band, which uses EEG sensors to determine the exact sound
| waves to apply.
|
| I admit I was quite skeptical, but a brief look showed that
| both bands have a decent amount of clinical data backing them
| up, although funded by the companies (unsurprising at this
| point, but would be good to get some independent studies on
| their efficacy).
|
| Curious if anyone has tried any of these bands and what they
| thought.
| pedalpete wrote:
| Our headband uses auditory (acoustic) simulation. But we are
| VERY different from elemind.
|
| If you look at the research behind elemind, it is clear they
| designed a study to show a positive result. Somnee, less so,
| but it is only a single paper.
|
| It's interesting to me you used "sound waves" to describe
| acoustic stimulation, which is exactly NOT what we are doing,
| or how auditory stimulation work (in our case).
|
| A "slow wave" aka delta waves is the measure of the
| synchronous firing of neurons which is the hallmark of deep
| sleep and the foundation of health. It is the activity of the
| brain pumping the glymphatic system, which is clearing
| metabolic waste, and is linked to immune function, hormone
| response, parasympathetic response, and more.
|
| Our EEG headband is detecting these slow-waves (the firing of
| neurons), and when we detect this brain activity, at a
| precise point in this synchronous firing, we interrupt the
| brain, with a brief pulse of sound. In response to this
| interruption, the brain goes "hey, this is vital to my
| health, don't mess with me right now", and increases the
| synchronous firing of neurons, both in that slow wave, as
| well as following up with another slow-wave after, sometimes
| 2, even 3, rarely 4 (but it is person dependent).
|
| A slow-wave only lasts for 0.8-1.2 seconds, so this timing is
| very precise, and we can see the change in brain activity
| immediately. We stimulate in a 5 on/ 5 off protocol, so we
| can see the change in brain activity within seconds. We are
| not comparing different nights, as we know sleep is different
| across nights. The response is very consistent.
|
| If you read the research from elemind and somnee, they sound
| very similar, with a huge red flag. They both say "we
| stimulate near the peak of an alpha wave, and then you fall
| asleep". There is no measure of a change in the brain
| activity. Just alpha wave, stimulation, sleep.
|
| I can go on and on about all the red flags, but you can read
| about elemind here -
| https://neurotechnology.substack.com/p/avoiding-
| neurotechs-t...
|
| I found the Somnee headband unbearably uncomfortable, and it
| didn't do anything for me.
|
| You mention acoustic stimulation as "sound waves" and that's
| where I wanted to clarify the whole "listen to a 120hz sound
| and it will improve XYZ".
|
| As far as I am aware, all of this sound waves stuff and
| interacting with brain waves at certain frequencies is
| nonsense. A brain wave is a human construct for how we
| visualize the electrical activity of the brain, just like an
| EKG is a visualization of electrical activity of the heart.
|
| You'd never say "we're interacting with your heart wave at
| this frequency", right?
|
| I have many bug-bears with the industry as a whole, and it is
| a bit terrifying to me that I'm working in this space
| surrounded by so much nonsense.
|
| We don't fund studies. The scientific principles of what we
| are doing has been known for about 10 years now. But it is
| difficult to do, and Philips have a TON of patents around
| this space - they fund a lot of the research.
|
| However, we support researchers who are already looking into
| this space because we have the best technology (well, waiting
| to be proven but we have advanced beyond the protocols of
| Philips and Dreem).
|
| I hope that helps understand where we're at, and maybe how we
| differ. I'm happy to answer any more questions.
| everyone wrote:
| I mean that mui Board thing is pretty cool and novel, that would
| definitely distract me for a while.
| constantcrying wrote:
| Very interesting initiative. I think examining products on that
| level is very important.
|
| What I think is also important though are tools which can embrace
| this and work with existing technology. The modern smartphone is
| simultaneously a great tool and an enormous distraction. There
| exist no device which offers the tools I genuinely need without
| all of the distractions.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| Agreed, had a bunch of talks about this issue with the wife.
|
| On one hand, we're both distractible people, and it'd probably
| be better if we could leave our phones behind on certain family
| outings and trips.
|
| But on the other hand, there's definitely times where you
| really need your phone on said outings: for directions, for
| business info, to call people, to book things, etc. It's just
| hard to get the necessities without bringing along everything
| else.
| dang wrote:
| Related. Others?
|
| _Calm Technology_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29115653 - Nov 2021 (68
| comments)
|
| _Calm Technology_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21799736 - Dec 2019 (155
| comments)
|
| _Principles of Calm Technology_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12389344 - Aug 2016 (66
| comments)
|
| _Calm Technology_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9107526
| - Feb 2015 (1 comment)
|
| _Calm Tech, Then and Now_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8475764 - Oct 2014 (1
| comment)
|
| _Designing Calm Technology (1995)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7976258 - July 2014 (2
| comments)
| brianmaurer wrote:
| Coincidentally there's an app on the front page that is an open-
| source and free for the Unpluq product mentioned in the Calm
| certification: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42782295
| internet_points wrote:
| I guess spelling velar plosives with q is the new -er -> -r
| choilive wrote:
| You know whats calm and not distracting? A notebook and pen. You
| can buy a LOT of decent notebooks for the price of one of the
| reMarkables mentioned in the article. (~30 or so?), and it will
| last a lot longer as well. Im starting to sound like a luddite.
| kibwen wrote:
| _> Im starting to sound like a luddite._
|
| Obligatory mention that the Luddites weren't against technology
| in general, they were against technology that was causing them
| to lose their livelihoods (while the country was already in the
| midst of an employment crisis and economic downturn due to a
| trade war (and real war) with Napoleon's Europe).
| golly_ned wrote:
| With the usual trade-offs between pen and notebook: namely
| durability and storage, for me. Some can account for all their
| notebooks going back years. I cannot, which makes me sad to
| have lost a lot of writing.
| CapeTheory wrote:
| I have observed a strange/alarming behaviour when I carry a
| notebook - because friends and family don't typically have
| one, they find it intriguing and so will sometimes
| absentmindedly snoop through what I've written if I leave it
| unattended. The same thing just doesn't happen with a
| ReMarkable (and even if it did, you can set a PIN code).
| girvo wrote:
| > and so will sometimes absentmindedly snoop through what
| I've written if I leave it unattended
|
| I'm glad I'm not the only one who experienced that! Such a
| fascinating experience, though really quite upsetting at
| the time. Doesn't happen now with my PIN-locked e-ink
| device.
| ryanianian wrote:
| I get you're being snarky, but I'll politely push back.
|
| I remained skeptical for a long time. Then I got one. I
| absolutely love it. In particular, the ability to have multiple
| notebooks with me and cross-linking via tags. And "infinite
| pages" lets you insert space in the middle of a page or
| continue moving down without having to worry about physical
| page sizes. I can also screen-share the tablet with the desktop
| app to draw diagrams on zoom calls.
|
| Admittedly, it is only incremental over a spiral notebook and a
| bic pen. But they do that incremental thing pretty well,
| particularly because of their focus on the "calm tech" aspects
| and lack of mainstream ecosystem to track upstream.
| malfist wrote:
| I had the opposite experience. I am an avid note taker, love
| the idea of a remarkable and got one for all the benefits you
| mentioned, especially the screen share part and just found it
| unsatisfying. Couldn't stick with it, wound up sending it
| back and going back to pen and paper
| girvo wrote:
| My paper notebooks can't do linking, I can't easily rearrange
| pages, rearrange my notes _on_ the page, and getting it off my
| paper and into my work PC is more challenging. My Kindle Scribe
| is excellent for all of this, and I can 't go back, personally!
| notatoad wrote:
| >I can't easily rearrange pages, rearrange my notes on the
| page
|
| okay. so don't do those things.
|
| for me, that's what "calm tech" is all about - it's not just
| notifications and distractions, it's all the desire for
| _more_ features, and for software to solve all problems.
| sometimes we can just not have features, and keep some
| problems, instead of trading our problems for the problems
| that more features bring.
| girvo wrote:
| You're better at writing than I am then! I make mistakes
| all the time, so being able to move my words around on the
| page is super useful.
|
| This to me is calm tech, because that's all it does: note
| taking. If your definition is such that only pen and paper
| meets it, that's not a very useful definition for tech IMO
| dredmorbius wrote:
| There are of course pen-and-paper approaches to all of these.
|
| _Links_ in text are called _references_. These can be
| internal within a document or codex, or external, referencing
| third-party works. Either case is far less subject to linkrot
| than URLs have turned out to be.
|
| One of the killer concepts of a bullet journal is the use of
| indices and spreads to provide an _interlinked_ and
| _searchable_ reference. If you go back in time, there are
| numerous journal and commonplace book organisational schemes.
|
| Pages can be easily rearranged using a removeable binding
| (three-ring binder or various other options), or by using an
| unbound format such as index cards (the original database
| solution).
|
| Data can be entered into a computer through scanning and
| handwriting recognition, though this is admittedly slow,
| cumbersome, and inexact. On the other hand, you may _want_
| friction between your paper-based and electronic data
| systems.
| criddell wrote:
| I hope either Amazon or Remarkable come out with a 13"
| e-paper tablet. I want to be able to read and mark up A4
| sized pdfs. The Fujitsu Quaderno is out there, but it feels
| semi-abandoned.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| The irony of trying to read this article and being assaulted by
| cookie warnings and ad popups that appear while scrolling is not
| lost on me.
| ramon156 wrote:
| Sadly they have no control over the cookie warnings
| globular-toast wrote:
| Of course they do. They aren't forced to use cookies that
| require user consent.
| lm28469 wrote:
| Out of the four categories they show only one needs consent:
| targeted ads, the others can be fully anonymous. The
| "essential cookies" can't be disabled, the "analytics" can be
| fully anonymous, the "personalisation" can be fully
| anonymous.
| GJim wrote:
| Ummmmm
|
| If they didn't have ads that track me, then they would have
| no need to ask my permission to use cookies that track me.
|
| There is no requirement so seek permission for other cookies
| needed to run the website. Quite why some readers of a
| technical news site (!) are still confused about this is
| bizzare.
|
| In short, blame the scummy adtech industry. Not the
| legislation that gives us our privacy.
| AdamN wrote:
| People say that but it's not really true. If they just have
| 1P cookies for basic functionality (login), then I believe
| there can be a discreet notice at the bottom informing the
| user of that fact. Groups like IEEE should be the ones
| pioneering those patterns.
| lowercased wrote:
| Not even sure you need any discreet notice about anything
| for strictly necessary first party cookies. That's my
| understanding of GDPR, at any rate.
| martin_a wrote:
| That's true. Strictly technically necessary cookies do
| not need consent or even information with a banner. Guess
| it's nice to know, but probably not legally necessary.
| high_na_euv wrote:
| >Guess it's nice to know
|
| It isnt, why should I care?
| recursive wrote:
| Your user agent has different, more reliable ways of
| informing you of this.
| arkh wrote:
| You don't HAVE TO have a cookie banner for cookies which
| don't require consent.
|
| Cookies not requiring consent : -
| "technical" cookies: for session, saving some user
| preferences (consenting to cookies or not, language etc.)
| - cookies used for load balancing or to protect against
| fraud - cookies used to save a cart or used to
| invoice some service - usage statistics cookies IF
| the data is anonymous
|
| Also, the law is about trackers, not specifically
| cookies: so data in local and session storage are
| concerned as does browser fingerprinting.
| daveguy wrote:
| But it's so much more effective to pretend like there are
| onerous requirements imposed by governments that
| interfere with the user experience. See: TikTok's early
| and unnecessary self-imposed, location-based shutdown
| with a pop-up message blaming the big bad government.
| Bonus points for ass kissing the easily manipulated
| current administration.
| prerok wrote:
| Sorry, I don't understand this. They complied with legal
| requirements a couple of hours before obligated to do so.
|
| Is my understanding of that situation wrong?
| daveguy wrote:
| TikTok was not required to restrict access to the app
| from devices in the US. Rather US companies (web hosting
| and app stores) were required to cease support. This
| means app stores like Google and Apple had to prevent
| downloads and installs (Apple still is). But the blanket
| shutdown of anyone with GPS coordinates within the US was
| not required. People were even still allowed to side-load
| the app where possible like in Android. So, the early and
| overly restrictive limitations from TikTok was for show
| and messaging to manipulate public opinion.
|
| Edit Reference:
|
| > If not sold within a year, the law would make it
| illegal for web-hosting services to support TikTok, and
| it would force Google and Apple to remove TikTok from app
| stores -- rendering the app unusable with time.
|
| https://www.npr.org/2024/04/24/1246663779/biden-ban-
| tiktok-u...
| high_na_euv wrote:
| Cookies for auth do not need such thing
| prerok wrote:
| AFAIK, only 3rd party cookies require this consent. I am
| pretty sure you require consent for 2nd party as well. Your
| own site's cookies? Do what you want.
|
| GDPR, however, also covers other things like your storing
| user's data, but that is separate from cookies. Cookies are
| stored on user's device.
| d1sxeyes wrote:
| What do you mean by second party here?
| master-lincoln wrote:
| You have been brainwashed successfully
| missinglugnut wrote:
| Totally unnecessary personal attack there.
|
| My take: if a law and it's enforcement almost universally
| lead to a worse outcome, the burden is on the lawmakers and
| enforcers to do better. You can yell about the websites all
| you want but being mad at most of the internet at once is a
| losing game.
| bilekas wrote:
| > Access Thousands of Articles -- Completely Free > Create an
| account and get exclusive content and features: Save articles,
| download collections, and talk to tech insiders -- all free!
| For full access and benefits, join IEEE as a paying member.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| My son just had an X-ray and there were checks and balances and
| careful professionals. It's taken a hundred years plus to go from
| early tech to available in local hospitals.
|
| We have barely begun to address the sharp edges of social media,
| mobiles and more. We will get there, a calm UI and backgrounded
| tech (hint AI won't do it magically we need to intentionally give
| up selling ads every second) but democracy helps.
| xeonmc wrote:
| Related: see Therac-25
| GuB-42 wrote:
| I don't really understand what it is about. The general idea is
| be less distracting, but that's pretty vague, a lot of things are
| not distracting, in fact most things aren't, we just don't notice
| and that's the point.
|
| The criteria seem to be "attention, periphery, durability, light,
| sound, and materials". Very broad. It looks like it even
| addresses openness and repairability with "an instruction booklet
| with a list of replacements and compatible parts", something I
| really care about, but how does it relate to calm?
|
| Maybe it will be clearer when the certification document is out.
| zooniezoobir wrote:
| Probably because your brain is mush from being born into a
| world where everything is a high tech attention grabbing
| nightmare. Those of us born 40-50 years ago see the
| consequences of this mess and are glad to have someone
| quantifying it, and hopefully creating a competitive market for
| devices that don't intentionally make life harder.
| metalman wrote:
| less distracting, less distracting, less distracting than what?,
| oh ! oh! I know this one its called lowering the bar, all the
| way, from where a device or a technology does something that
| saves you time and effort, to where it costs you time and
| attention from the things you need to do, but thats ok. where is
| a ludite with a big wrench
| CatWChainsaw wrote:
| If it doesn't make as money as addition tech it will lose.
| philip-b wrote:
| My list of calm (+), somewhat calm (o), and non-calm (-) pieces
| of technology that I have owned:
|
| + kindle from 2010 - laptop - phone - Ipad (but it's still much
| calmer than my computer or my phone) + Harmonica (musical
| instrument) o Amplifier (I use it with my harmonica through a
| mic) - Linnstrument (musical instrument that requires computer or
| ipad connection) + Pencil and paper + Paper books o Handwritten
| notes on Ipad - Notes in obsidian o Nintendo Switch + Paper
| dictionary (for language learning) - Dictionary + Claude AI on my
| phone
| TylerE wrote:
| The only thing I'd want:
|
| Has no Blue LEDs: Pass
|
| Has a Blue LED: Fail
|
| Edit: Honorable mention for text boxes that silently eat
| newlines.
| Kuraj wrote:
| How about any LEDs?
|
| Having to use duct tape to prevent an appliance from lighting
| up my entire room at night is egregious.
| bmicraft wrote:
| I could settle for a switch at the bottom to disable all
| lights, and in return the manufacturer is allowed to add as
| many as they like
| TylerE wrote:
| I could be convinced but the old school dull green's I don't
| find objectionable at all. Nor the similarly dim warm orangey
| reds of the same era.
|
| The blue ones are just so much brighter, and many of them
| seem to have a flicker, too.
| nottorp wrote:
| > Having to use duct tape
|
| Black nail polish is more elegant! I've said it before and
| I'll spread the word for as long as I live!
| username135 wrote:
| I wish wearable tech was dumb. I dont want to connect it to my
| phone, to an app, to the internet.... _nothing_
|
| Its hard to find these kinds of devices but i have to believe
| there's a market. I can't be the only one.
| sakesun wrote:
| Emacs is my calm tech IDE.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| With a built-in psychoanalyzer!
|
| RMS -vs- Doctor, on the evils of Natalism:
|
| http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...
| globular-toast wrote:
| Been using Emacs for over 15 years and, now you mention it, I
| guess that is why. At the time it was normal for people to use
| a different IDE per language and these would be littered with
| buttons, menus, tabs etc. I thought this was ridiculous so
| looked into vim and Emacs. Emacs is obviously better so I made
| my config completely distraction-free (which is trivial to do).
|
| Now 99% of my window is the text I'm editing (two lines
| reserved for modeline and minibuffer). Nothing pops up or makes
| its presence known until the moment I need it. Tabs are a good
| example. I often have close to a hundred files "open" in Emacs
| but I don't need to know about them until the moment I'm ready
| to switch to one.
|
| I was 10 years ahead of VS Code taking off but when I look at
| that I still see a bunch of useless distractions taking up
| valuable screen space.
| MathMonkeyMan wrote:
| I use vscode in neovim mode, but it does have a habit of
| "notifying" me about everything. Whose idea was it for there to
| be a marginal popup repeating everything I do?
|
| I do a thing, and there's the popup "hey, you did a thing!"
| Stop it...
| DonHopkins wrote:
| I worked with Mark Weiser at the University of Maryland
| Heterogeneous Systems Lab, where we researched and published a
| paper about pie menus at CHI'88, before he went to run Xerox
| PARC.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser
|
| https://donhopkins.medium.com/an-empirical-comparison-of-pie...
|
| The Computer for the 21st Century:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkHALBOqn7s
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28351064
|
| DonHopkins on Aug 29, 2021 | parent | context | favorite | on:
| Computers should expose their internal workings as...
|
| Natalie Jeremijenko: LiveWire, Dangling String; Mark Weiser: Calm
| Technology, Ubiquitous Computing
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calm_technology
|
| >Calm Technology
|
| >History
|
| >The phrase "calm technology" was first published in the article
| "Designing Calm Technology", written by Mark Weiser and John
| Seely Brown in 1995.[1] The concept had developed amongst
| researchers at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center in addition to
| the concept of ubiquitous computing.[3]
|
| >Weiser introduced the concept of calm technology by using the
| example of LiveWire or "Dangling String". It is an eight-foot
| (2.4 m) string connected to the mounted small electric motor in
| the ceiling. The motor is connected to a nearby Ethernet cable.
| When a bit of information flows through that Ethernet cable, it
| causes a twitch of the motor. The more the information flows, the
| motor runs faster, thus creating the string to dangle or whirl
| depending on how much network traffic is. It has aesthetic
| appeal; it provides a visualization of network traffic but
| without being obtrusive.[4]
|
| [1]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20190508225438/https://www.karls...
|
| [3]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20131214054651/http://ieeexplore...
|
| PDF: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~./jasonh/courses/ubicomp-
| sp2007/paper...
|
| [4]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20110706212255/https://uwspace.u...
|
| PDF:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20170810073340/https://uwspace.u...
|
| >According to Weiser, LiveWire is primarily an aesthetic object,
| a work of art, which secondarily allows the user to know network
| traffic, while expending minimal effort. It assists the user by
| augmenting an office with information about network traffic.
| Essentially, it moves traffic information from a computer screen
| to the 'real world', where the user can acquire information from
| it without looking directly at it.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_Jeremijenko#Live_Wire_...
|
| >Natalie Jeremijenko
|
| >Live Wire (Dangling String), 1995
|
| >In 1995,[9] as an artist-in-residence at Xerox PARC in Palo
| Alto, California under the guidance of Mark Weiser, she created
| an art installation made up of LED cables that lit up relative to
| the amount of internet traffic. The work is now seen as one of
| the first examples of ambient or "calm" technology.[10][11]
|
| [9]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20110526023949/http://mediaartis...
|
| [10]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20100701035651/http://iu.berkele...
|
| >Weiser comments on Dangling String: "Created by artist Natalie
| Jeremijenko, the "Dangling String" is an 8 foot piece of plastic
| spaghetti that hangs from a small electric motor mounted in the
| ceiling. The motor is electrically connected to a nearby Ethernet
| cable, so that each bit of information that goes past causes a
| tiny twitch of the motor. A very busy network causes a madly
| whirling string with a characteristic noise; a quiet network
| causes only a small twitch every few seconds. Placed in an unused
| corner of a hallway, the long string is visible and audible from
| many offices without being obtrusive."
|
| [11]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20120313074738/http://ipv6.com/a...
|
| >Mark Weiser suggested the idea of enormous number of ubiquitous
| computers embedding into everything in our everyday life so that
| we use them anytime, anywhere without the knowledge of them.
| Today, ubiquitous computing is still at an early phase as it
| requires revolutionary software and hardware technologies.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17353666
|
| DonHopkins on June 20, 2018 | parent | context | favorite | on:
| Philip K. Dick: A Visionary Among the Charlatans (...
|
| Mark Weiser once told me that Ubik was one of his inspirations
| for Ubiquitous Computing.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20060220211305/http://www.ubiq.c...
|
| >Ubiquitous computing names the third wave in computing, just now
| beginning. First were mainframes, each shared by lots of people.
| Now we are in the personal computing era, person and machine
| staring uneasily at each other across the desktop. Next comes
| ubiquitous computing, or the age of calm technology, when
| technology recedes into the background of our lives. Alan Kay of
| Apple calls this "Third Paradigm" computing.
|
| https://blog.canary.is/from-tesla-to-touchscreens-the-journe...
|
| >One year earlier, in 1998, Mark Weiser described it a little
| differently, stating that, "Ubiquitous computing is roughly the
| opposite of virtual reality. Where virtual reality puts people
| inside a computer-generated world," Weiser asserted,"ubiquitous
| computing forces the computer to live out here in the world with
| people." This wasn't the first time someone broached the idea of
| IoT. In the early 1980s, students at Carnegie Mellon's Computer
| Science department created the first IoT Coke machine. Author
| Philip K. Dick wrote about the smart home in the 1969 sci-fi
| novel Ubik, and four decades before, inventor and engineer Nikola
| Tesla addressed the concept in Colliers Magazine. In an amazingly
| prescient 1926 interview, Tesla said,
|
| >"When wireless is perfectly applied the whole earth will be
| converted into a huge brain...We shall be able to communicate
| with one another instantly, irrespective of distance...and the
| instruments through which we shall be able to do this will be
| amazingly simple compared with our present telephone. A man will
| be able to carry one in his vest pocket."
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubik
|
| "Five cents, please," his front door said when he tried to open
| it. One thing, anyhow, hadn't changed. The toll door had an
| innate stubbornness to it; probably it would hold out after
| everything else. After everything except it had long since
| reverted, perhaps in the whole city ... if not the whole world.
|
| He paid the door a nickel, hurried down the hall to the moving
| ramp which he had used only minutes ago.
|
| [...]
|
| "I don't have any more nickels," G. G. said. "I can't get out."
|
| Glancing at Joe, then at G. G., Pat said, "Have one of mine." She
| tossed G. G. a coin, which he caught, an expression of
| bewilderment on his face. The bewilderment then, by degrees,
| changed to aggrieved sullenness.
|
| "You sure shot me down," he said as he deposited the nickel in
| the door's slot. "Both of you," he muttered as the door closed
| after him. "I discovered her. This is really a cutthroat
| business, when --" His voice faded out as the door clamped shut.
| There was, then, silence.
|
| [...]
|
| "I'll go get my test equipment from the car," Joe said, starting
| towards the door.
|
| "Five cents, please,"
|
| "Pay the door," Hoe said to G. G. Ashwood.
|
| [...]
|
| "Can I borrow a couple of poscreds from you?" Joe said. "So I can
| eat breakfast?"
|
| "Mr. Hammond warned me that you would try to borrow money from
| me. He informed me that he already provided you with sufficient
| funds to pay for your hotel room, plus a round of drinks, as well
| as --"
|
| "Al based his estimate on the assumption that I would rent a more
| modest room than this."
| ubicomp wrote:
| I love it when you post about Mark, Don. Thank you for this!
| internet_points wrote:
| That mui board looks quite nice - how hard would it be to make
| something wood-like that just displays the weather when you touch
| it? I'm thinking something more or less A5 or moleskine-shaped
| that I can hang on the wall in the hallway, and you touch it (or
| press a button or something) and it loads and display a web page,
| does nothing else
| kashyapc wrote:
| They mention "reMarkable Paper Pro", but I'm not willing to pay a
| _subscription_ for such a physical device that already is quite
| expensive.
|
| I see reMarkable says[1] you can use it without a subscription,
| but I'm not confident they won't pull the rug under my feet.
|
| [1] https://support.remarkable.com/s/article/Using-reMarkable-
| wi...
| laserbeam wrote:
| The remarkable team is good at marketing their product, and of
| course they'll get it "calm certified" if they can. Keep in
| mind there are plenty of alternatives to it (boox, supernote,
| kindle scribe, many more). I bet you 90% of them are just as
| "calm" as the remakrable.
| EnnEmmEss wrote:
| I've only used the Boox Tab Ultra C Pro and Remarkable Paper
| Pro but the latter is definitely a lot more "calm" than the
| former. I primarily use it only as a note-taking device. YMMV
| but for me, while the former had a full-fledged Android and
| the associated bells and whistles like the corresponding
| apps, local AI features, handwriting search and so on, the
| RMPP nailed the few things it did. Its sync was pretty slow
| and it needed wifi for any of the handwriting conversion but
| its latency felt a lot better (albeit the redraw was a bit
| annoying) and more importantly, it really felt like they
| nailed the colors better. When I use red and blue in the
| RMPP, I can easily recognize the diff without straining my
| eyes which was not the case for me with the BTUCP (is this
| the correct short form?).
|
| The keyboard folio was also better for the RMPP since I often
| experienced loose contact with the one on the BTUCP when I
| used it on my lap (flat surfaces were good once I set it up).
| Otoh, the material used in the BTUCP was much better since
| the RMPP one uses a polyster weave which often leaves me with
| slight goosebumps. Additionally, the keyboard folio isn't a
| feature I use often.
|
| I really can't talk about the others so for all I know,
| Scribe or supernote might be a lot better. RMPP does have a
| 90 days no questions asked return policy if you want to try
| it out (though I'm not sure how much that's worth).
| itishappy wrote:
| I don't have a subscription or even an account, and I've had no
| issues using my reMarkable 2. I literally have not turned on
| WiFi, but it's been an excellent offline device. Being able to
| plug it in and connect via ssh is a solid feature.
|
| That being said, my girlfriend loves her Supernote too, so
| there's plenty of alternatives.
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| I thought this was related to the app Calm before clicking on it.
|
| Would have been a very interesting new direction for them to
| expand in.
| alganet wrote:
| Less misdirecting tech? Sounds great. It is too late though.
| nullderef wrote:
| Amber Case is awesome. I'm personally building a silly app that
| makes it annoying to use social media. It will sometimes display
| cookie banners, cats, and more in the middle of your screen :)
|
| https://nullderef.com/blog/phone-jan25/
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