[HN Gopher] The Ribbon Microphone
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The Ribbon Microphone
Author : glittershark
Score : 151 points
Date : 2025-01-19 23:39 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (khz.ac)
(TXT) w3m dump (khz.ac)
| dwdz wrote:
| All lowercase text is so hard to read.
| Aachen wrote:
| I also fell for the purple text that didn't turn out to be a
| link
|
| This is quite the style
| jacknews wrote:
| i didn't find it hard to read, personally
|
| perhaps the author is anti-capital-ist?
|
| having an entire separate alphabet just to mark the start of
| sentences, and proper names, does seem extremely wasteful
|
| on the microphone, it looks like quite a delicate process
|
| i've modded some cheap aliexpress microphones (eg following htt
| ps://audioimprov.com/AudioImprov/Mics/Entries/2015/12/20_...)
| but i'd want to see some measurements or reviews before
| embarking on something like this one
| quinnjh wrote:
| capitals could damage the ribbon
| ikari_pl wrote:
| on my machine, the text is also gigantic, and some of it is
| outside the screen :')
| leoc wrote:
| ifyouthinkthatsbadbearinmindthatbothcapitallettersinlowercasete
| xtandspacesbetweenwordsarefairlyrecentinventions
| mncharity wrote:
| nd y dnt rly nd bth vwls nd spcs s sm lngg grps ntlly drppd
| vwls whn thy gt spcs
| BizarroLand wrote:
| Aachen wrote:
| Is there a recording somewhere to hear what this sounds like?
| beAbU wrote:
| It sounds just like any other mic, with subtle differences
| audible only to the most trained ear.
|
| Their frequency response is probably well characterised and
| documented, so you can simulate one by putting an appropriate
| EQ over a "normal" mic and the outcome will be
| indistinguishable from the real thing.
| localghost3000 wrote:
| Disagree. Ribbon mics have a very distinct sound. The top end
| in particular. They also distort when pushed.
| localghost3000 wrote:
| Amy Winehouse "Back to Black". They tracked her vocals with an
| RCA ribbon mic.
|
| Edit: fixed a typo
| dylan604 wrote:
| Any Winehouse is such an unfortunate typo
| localghost3000 wrote:
| Fixed! Thanks for catching.
| dharma1 wrote:
| They have a bit different characteristics to dynamic/condenser
| mics - usually less high frequency content, and pronounced
| proximity effect.
|
| Often used for horns, violin, guitar cabs - sources where you
| want to reduce "shrillness" but you can use them anywhere.
| glittershark wrote:
| it looks like there's a recording linked at the end of the post
| leblancfg wrote:
| That's great, but would love to hear samples to see if it's any
| good!
| TrackerFF wrote:
| Ribbon mics: Expensive, and notoriously fragile (to high SPL).
|
| Some are so sensitive that you can actually destroy the ribbon by
| shutting the (mic) case lid too fast.
| alexhornbake wrote:
| As you've pointed out High SPL isn't what breaks ribbons, it's
| high SPL at low frequencies (ie wind/air moving frequencies,
| like those produced from a slamming wooden case lid.
|
| Kick drums and bass guitar amps might not be a good match for a
| ribbon, but speech (with a pop filter) is fine.
|
| Modern mics like those from Royer Labs can handle high SPL
| (cranked 100w guitar amp).
|
| There are a few reasons why professionals still like ribbons
| for certain tasks: unlike condensers and dynamics, the resonant
| frequency of the ribbon is typically very low (20Hz), so you
| don't get any peaks or artifacts when the source audio vibrates
| at the resonant frequency of the mic. Also, if you like the
| sound of your expensive mic preamplifier, the low output ribbon
| mics let you add gain/dirt/harmonic distortion which to some is
| pleasing to the ear.
|
| Love that the op built his own, that's really awesome.
| TrackerFF wrote:
| Yeah, I have a Royer R-121 which I use in combination a SM57
| on guitar cabs/amps - classic combo as you get the fullness
| and low-end of the Royer, and attack and top-end of the
| dynamic. But eyewatering price when considering it's only one
| microphone (though it has more use cases, like overhead).
|
| With that said, every ribbon mic I've owned, I've felt like
| I've had to handle with kid gloves, just in case.
| afandian wrote:
| Is the frequency response purely a function of the physical
| shape? I wonder why you can't use a similar diaphragm shape
| but as a condenser?
| duped wrote:
| No, it's a function of the acoustic, mechanical, and
| electrical properties of the entire system.
|
| An easy way to understand this with dynamic mics is that
| the coil itself has some resistance, inductance, and
| capacitance that impedes the flow of the induced current
| through the coil. That impedance is frequency dependent, so
| the properties of the coil affect the frequency response.
|
| Same principle applies to all transducers. The acoustic
| energy is converted into mechanical/kinetic energy and then
| into electrical energy. So to understand the frequency
| response you need to understand the acoustic, mechanical,
| and electrical impedances.
| t-3 wrote:
| Is this basically just the inverse of an electrostatic speaker?
| I've seen DIY builds of those using very thin films coated with
| some electrosensitive solution - would that work as an
| alternative for the foil/leaf used here?
| frabert wrote:
| No, a ribbon microphone is sort-of a dual of a dynamic
| microphone if you squint hard enough. An electrostatic speaker
| is closer to the inverse of a condenser (capacitor) microphone
| yetihehe wrote:
| Just to add: inverse of ribbon microphone is ribbon speaker
| [1].
|
| [1] https://www.psaudio.com/blogs/pauls-posts/how-a-ribbon-
| speak...
| BJones12 wrote:
| Thank you. I've dabbled in audio for 25 years and had no
| idea these existed.
| leoc wrote:
| Relevant _Wired_ articles from 2011:
|
| * "Relics Reborn: Ribbon Microphones Rally for Vintage-Audio
| Geeks" https://www.wired.com/2011/01/gallery-ribbon-mics-part-1/
| https://web.archive.org/web/20240118172709/https://www.wired...
|
| * "Ribbon Microphones: Audio Icon You Can Build in Your Garage"
| https://www.wired.com/2011/01/ribbon-mics-part-2/
| https://web.archive.org/web/20160326035336/https://www.wired...
| (the internal link from part 1 to part 2 in the _Wired_ story is
| currently broken!)
|
| (These were posted in 2011 by user mainland but didn't get any
| comments.)
| sgarland wrote:
| This was an excellent read! I dabbled in DIY audio gear as a
| teenager, mostly building headphone amps. Never dreamed of trying
| something as complex as this.
| andybp85 wrote:
| I built a ribbon mic from a kit a while ago, and only broke the
| ribbon once putting it together! https://www.bumblebeepro.com/
|
| Of course, as soon as i tried to record my guitarist with it, he
| cranked his amp and broke it again. Guitarists, man...
| leoc wrote:
| Recording drum kits with them must be a delicate business...
| beAbU wrote:
| For anyone interested in how mucrophones can sound different,
| check out Jim Lill's video [1] where he A/B tests a bunch of mics
| against one another and industry standards.
|
| He has a whole series of videos where he explores what
| contributes the most to "guitar tone", all the way from the
| strings to your ears and in between. It's a bit of an eye opener
| to say the least. Highly, highly recommended.
|
| 1: https://youtu.be/4Bma2TE-x6M
| ot wrote:
| That is a ridiculously well made video, thanks for sharing!
| leblancfg wrote:
| Love his series, but you really have to keep in mind that his
| testing methodology is "reductionist": a microphone's quality
| can't _just_ be distilled to its EQ response. Phase, transient
| response, clipping, etc. are also part of the equation.
|
| edit: My "case in point" moment is Jim's (excellent!) DIY amp
| section in this video:
| https://youtu.be/wcBEOcPtlYk?si=jkehIfyo6AgeTLUo&t=918. Its EQ
| indeed sounds like the big names, but I'm sure you'll also
| notice how its dynamics also sound so thin. That's likely
| because solid state clipping != (saggy) tube overdrive.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> solid state clipping != (saggy) tube overdrive.
|
| Clipping tends to produce odd harmonics, and blocks highs
| entirely in the flat parts.
|
| Nonlinearity across the signal range can produce even
| harmonics and doesn't delete portions of small signals.
| beAbU wrote:
| The takeaway for me on all his videos is that yes, these
| things are different, and they make a difference. But the
| difference is so subtle and nuanced that its nigh on
| impossible hear it, especially in the mix, played on a CD,
| over a stereo in a less-than-ideal treated room.
|
| In one of his amp cab videos he has the appiphany that all
| his tone chasing was for naught, because he failed to
| consider that each and every sound he hears has been
| _recorded_. He cannot replicate the tone of how an amp or cab
| or speaker or guitar sounded, because that sound was
| recorded, where the mic, preamp, console and recording medium
| all added their own influence, and him listening to an amp in
| the room is _not_ how that amp actually sounded. And live
| sound is a completely different animal all together!
| hammock wrote:
| That's an amazing video, the first 30min Youtube I've seen that
| is densely packed with usefulness and without any fluff (in
| pace, audio and visuals).
|
| I wish he had vocals in his comparison set.
|
| I did love to see five different U87s tested. They have such a
| great reputation, and we used them so much when I was producing
| but it's amazing to me how variable they were from mic to mic.
| Knowing that I would avoid moving forward unless it's my own,
| that I know.
| deckar01 wrote:
| I think people get too hung up on the natural frequency
| response of mics. A ribbon mic can achieve such a low noise
| floor with high sensitivity that high gain EQ stays clean.
| ditn wrote:
| An interesting feature of ribbon mics - because the ribbon is
| open at the front and the back, they reject sound from the side
| (and top/bottom) almost perfectly. You can arrange these cleverly
| in live or studio settings to amplify one thing while rejecting
| another completely.
|
| A typical usecase for this is a singer with an acoustic guitar -
| one mic can pick up the guitar and almost fully reject the
| vocals, and vice-versa. Pretty cool.
| paulorlando wrote:
| It also led to the ability to sing in a quieter, more natural
| way, and gave birth to the "crooner" style. The earlier
| popularized carbon button microphone (invented in 1878) didn't
| enable this personal singing style. If you look at one you might
| mistake it for the receiver of an old telephone handset (which in
| essence it was).
| telesilla wrote:
| It's a fascinating topic, how technology forms new genres of
| music. The microphone is often overlooked for its importance in
| 20th century music evolution.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| If the author's reading this, the site renders like this in a
| recent Firefox - https://i.imgur.com/lazMsqx.png
| jszymborski wrote:
| Not the case on v134.0.1 on Linux Mint.
|
| https://i.imgur.com/vmUFR9K.png
| sebazzz wrote:
| In Safari it looks like there has been a "text-transform:
| lowercase" in the CSS.
| nemetroid wrote:
| I don't have this particular issue, but instead the text size
| is hilariously huge. The CSS contains this fragment:
| @media (min-resolution: 1.5dppx) { :root { font-
| size: 2.4rem; } }
|
| My 27 inch 4k monitor comes in at a device pixel ratio of
| ~1.58, triggering this (presumably) phone-targeted style.
| AndrewStephens wrote:
| This is a common problem with stylesheets based on tufte-css
| (an excellent project) which attempts to make things nice for
| mobile users but often makes the wrong assumption about screen
| geometry.
|
| My blog had the same problem until I removed the css styles
| that triggered the font size.
| nosolace wrote:
| the author is in fact reading this and will make some changes
|
| edit: haven't managed to replicate the absurdly huge image;
| what version # & os are you on?
| mardef wrote:
| And like this in Windows/Chrome latest:
|
| https://imgur.com/a/QnNbLEG
|
| on a non-maximized window.
| ge96 wrote:
| Is there a sample sound? Cool design
| deckar01 wrote:
| They don't have any EMI shielding? I use an aluminum pedal box,
| cut holes, and screen them with fine steel mesh. The XLR terminal
| grounds the mic, cable, and transformer together. These should
| have such a low noise floor they can pick up LF signals like
| train tracks and subwoofers rumbling off in the distance.
| nosolace wrote:
| there is (now) a sample recording, for anyone interested.
| skzv wrote:
| I bought my father a RM-BIV3 ribbon microphone [0] to record
| violin. It's a beautiful piece.
|
| [0] https://micpedia.com/microphone/bashaudio-rm-biv3/
| 01100011 wrote:
| Seems like you could get many of the benefits of a ribbon by
| using a laser to measure the vibration of the ribbon vs measuring
| the voltage. Of course the ribbon won't vibrate the same without
| a magnetic field applied so you could still supply that. You'll
| also just be picking up the vibrations at one point of the ribbon
| instead of the summation(?) of it's movement. But you won't have
| to worry so much about noise and shielding, while still retaining
| a low resonant frequency.
| sudobash1 wrote:
| Apparently aluminum ribbons can be used the other way too with
| some success. I recently came across a ribbon speaker:
| https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Tinfoil-Ribbon-Speaker/
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