[HN Gopher] Prime numbers so memorable that people hunt for them
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Prime numbers so memorable that people hunt for them
        
       Author : georgecmu
       Score  : 170 points
       Date   : 2025-01-18 14:41 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scientificamerican.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scientificamerican.com)
        
       | slwvx wrote:
       | The title of the Scientific American article is "These Prime
       | Numbers Are So Memorable That People Hunt for Them", which
       | matches the content much better than the title above.
        
       | lehi wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belphegor%27s_prime
       | 
       | "666" with 13 0's on either side and 1's on the ends.
        
         | yapyap wrote:
         | wow, evil pi.
         | 
         | very interesting, thanks for sharing.
        
           | kreyenborgi wrote:
           | Does the decimal expansion of pi contain it?
        
             | shrx wrote:
             | Yes
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | It also works with no zeros, or all sorts of other number of
         | zeros. Dude basically just added zeros until the number got
         | cooler.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | The palindromic Belphegor numbers https://oeis.org/A232449
           | 
           | Indices of Belphegor primes: numbers k such that the decimal
           | number https://oeis.org/A232448
        
         | fuzzythinker wrote:
         | "on both sides" because "on either side" to me meant it may be
         | duo of 1-13zeros-6661 and 1666-13zeros-1.
         | 
         | More for those who don't click the link, other Belphegor primes
         | numbers are with the following number of zeros in both ends
         | (and 1 to cap off the ends): 0, 13, 42, 506, 608, 2472, 2623,
         | maybe more.
        
           | sdwr wrote:
           | "to either side" or "on either side" commonly means "on both
           | sides"
           | 
           | "Either" has two meanings:
           | 
           | - verb-wise, it separates different options (you can have
           | either X or Y)
           | 
           | - noun-wise, it refers to two similar groups (there was no
           | light on either side of the bridge, or, conversely, the
           | bridge was lit on either side)
        
             | jjtheblunt wrote:
             | (Native speaker) i read either in the sense of logical or,
             | so one side alone (tegardless of which side) or both sides
             | at once.
             | 
             | Interesting how varied the ohrasing can be read, though!
        
             | quuxplusone wrote:
             | Indeed. "On either side the river lie / Long fields of
             | barley and of rye" --Tennyson
        
         | TeMPOraL wrote:
         | > _Belphegor (or Baal Peor, Hebrew: ba'`al-p@'`vor ba'al-p@'or
         | - "Lord of the Gap") is, in the Abrahamic religions, a demon
         | associated with one of the seven deadly sins. According to
         | religious tradition, he helps people make discoveries. He
         | seduces people by proposing incredible inventions that will
         | make them rich._
         | 
         | Huh. Would feel right at home in our industry.
         | 
         | > _According to some demonologists from the 17th century, his
         | powers are strongest in April._
         | 
         | Any demo days or other significant VC stuff happening in April?
         | 
         | > _The German bishop and witch hunter, Peter Binsfeld (ca.
         | 1540-ca.1600) wrote that Belphegor tempts through laziness.
         | According to Binsfeld 's Classification of Demons, Belphegor is
         | the main demon of the deadly sin known as sloth in the
         | Christian tradition. The anonymous author of the Lollard tract
         | The Lanterne of Light, however, believed Belphegor to embody
         | the sin of gluttony rather than sloth._
         | 
         | Yeah, hits too close to home.
         | 
         | Via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belphegor
        
           | WorldMaker wrote:
           | > Any demo days or other significant VC stuff happening in
           | April?
           | 
           | Lots of tech companies plan elaborate demos for April 1st,
           | for some foolish reason. It certainly gets very busy on HN
           | keeping up.
        
           | vdjskshi wrote:
           | Sounds like the patron saint of LLMs
        
           | miki123211 wrote:
           | How was this never mentioned in Unsong? Not a single time?
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | IDK, I guess Scott Alexander didn't do his research
             | _thoroughly enough_. Still, UNSONG is already pretty much a
             | fractal of references and callouts to such things.
             | 
             | On that note, how is it I've never seen anyone connecting
             | the famous "God of the gaps"[0] with a demon literally
             | named "Lord of the Gap"?
             | 
             | (In case no one really did, let history and search engines
             | mark this comment as the first.)
             | 
             | --
             | 
             | [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
        
           | gpderetta wrote:
           | Makes sense, with laziness being one of the three virtues of
           | a great programmer.
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | Can't spell "demon" without "demo". Cue the church lady.
        
             | alphan0n wrote:
             | Startup > trapt (archaic) us
        
       | nurumaik wrote:
       | Since divisibility by 2 and 5 is such a problem, why not look for
       | memorable numbers in prime base, like base 7 or base 11?
        
         | Retr0id wrote:
         | If we allow non-decimal bases, (2^n)-1 works for a lot of
         | memorable values of n (e.g. 2, 3, 5, 7... and 31, per the
         | article), or some less memorable but very long values of n,
         | like 136279841
         | 
         | They're all technically palindromes in base-2.
        
         | elcomet wrote:
         | I can't tell if this is a joke if if you're serious
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | Why do we care about base 10 ? Because we have five digits per
         | appendage ? BFD. Accident of evolution.
         | 
         | What about palindromes in binary ? That's about as close to a
         | mathematical ideal as we could get. Yes?
         | 
         | Let's see. decimal 11 = binary 1011, its palindrome = 1101 =
         | decimal 13, GOLD!
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | https://oeis.org/A260871
        
       | geoffcampbell64 wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/O8BOs
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | Maybe there's a prime number that makes a mildly interesting
       | picture when rendered in base-2 in a 8*8 grid.
       | 
       | Should somebody spend time looking at all the primes that fit in
       | the grid? Absolutely not.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | > _Should somebody spend time looking at all the primes that
         | fit in the grid? Absolutely not._
         | 
         | Why not?
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | True, it's not any of my business.
           | 
           | Maybe superhuman AI will have humans do this kind of work to
           | make us feel useful. "Oh, you're right, does look a bit like
           | a duck! Fun! You're doing so well helping me discover the
           | secrets of the universe! I enjoy working with people."
        
         | andrewla wrote:
         | You can create your own using PARI/GP. To render the HN prime
         | (a prime that has "HN" graphically with some garbage at the
         | end, just go to [1] and type in:                   a =
         | nextprime(0b1\         0000000000000000\
         | 0100001010000010\         0100001011000010\
         | 0100001010100010\         0111111010010010\
         | 0100001010001010\         0100001010000110\
         | 0100001010000010\         0000000000000000\
         | 0000000000000000\         )
         | 
         | 1461507431067219818927492061258791363947404460153 is the HN
         | prime (it looks better in binary and split to length-16 lines)
         | >>> print("\n".join([bin(14615074310672198189274920612587913639
         | 47404460153)[3:][a*16:a*16+16] for a in range(10)]))
         | 0000000000000000         0100001010000010
         | 0100001011000010         0100001010100010
         | 0111111010010010         0100001010001010
         | 0100001010000110         0100001010000010
         | 0000000000000000         0000000001111001
         | 
         | [1] https://pari.math.u-bordeaux.fr/gpwasm.html
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | Reminds me the demonstration that all whole numbers are
       | interesting in a way or another. Being memorable in this case is
       | not so much about memory but about having an easy to notice
       | pattern of digits, or a clear trivial algorithm to build them.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_number_paradox
         | 
         | > _The interesting number paradox is a humorous paradox which
         | arises from the attempt to classify every natural number as
         | either "interesting" or "uninteresting". The paradox states
         | that every natural number is interesting.[1] The "proof" is by
         | contradiction: if there exists a non-empty set of uninteresting
         | natural numbers, there would be a smallest uninteresting number
         | - but the smallest uninteresting number is itself interesting
         | because it is the smallest uninteresting number, thus producing
         | a contradiction._
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_number
           | 
           | The name is derived from a conversation ca. 1919 involving
           | mathematicians G. H. Hardy and Srinivasa Ramanujan. As told
           | by Hardy:
           | 
           | I remember once going to see him [Ramanujan] when he was
           | lying ill at Putney. I had ridden in taxi-cab No. 1729, and
           | remarked that the number seemed to be rather a dull one, and
           | that I hoped it was not an unfavourable omen. "No," he
           | replied, "it is a very interesting number; it is the smallest
           | number expressible as the sum of two cubes in two different
           | ways."
        
           | jmount wrote:
           | Can also consider variations of this such as
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_paradox or even the very
           | general https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox
        
       | susam wrote:
       | As soon as I read the title of this post, the anecdote about the
       | Grothendieck prime came to mind. Sure enough, the article kicks
       | off with that very story! The article also links to
       | https://www.ams.org/notices/200410/fea-grothendieck-part2.pd...
       | which has an account of this anecdote. But the article does not
       | reproduce the anecdote as stated in the linked document. So allow
       | me to share it here as I've always found it quite amusing:
       | 
       | > One striking characteristic of Grothendieck's mode of thinking
       | is that it seemed to rely so little on examples. This can be seen
       | in the legend of the so-called "Grothendieck prime". In a
       | mathematical conversation, someone suggested to Grothendieck that
       | they should consider a particular prime number. "You mean an
       | actual number?" Grothendieck asked. The other person replied,
       | yes, an actual prime number. Grothendieck suggested, "All right,
       | take 57."
        
         | zellyn wrote:
         | One of my pet hobbies is trying to figure out the least prime
         | prime number and most prime composite numbers under 100.
         | 
         | My votes are 61 or 89 for least prime-seeming primes and 87 and
         | --yep-- 57 for more prime-seeming composites.
        
           | xigoi wrote:
           | I once wrote in a Math Olympiad solution that 87 is prime.
           | Not my brightest moment.
        
           | im3w1l wrote:
           | I'm gonna vote 91, since it has large divisors that can't be
           | seen at a glance. 57 and 87 fall apart if you remember that
           | 60 and 90 are divisible by 3.
        
           | expensive_news wrote:
           | I really enjoy this "proof" that the most prime-seeming
           | composite is 91
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/S75VTAGKQpk
        
         | bhasi wrote:
         | But it's not prime - what am I missing? Why is this anecdote
         | significant?
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | Yeah I don't get it either.
        
           | eigenket wrote:
           | The point is that Grothendieck, easily one of the greatest
           | mathematicians of all time, who regularly proved deep and
           | fundamental facts about prime numbers, cared so little about
           | particular numbers that he accidentally gave an easy to see
           | non-prime as an example of a prime.
           | 
           | He was used to working on completely different levels of
           | abstraction, so when faced with concrete numbers he could
           | easily make a mistake that a school-child (or hacker news
           | commenter) could spot.
        
       | lpolovets wrote:
       | Not quite the same, but this reminds me of bitcoin, where miners
       | are on the hunt for SHA hashes that start with a bunch of zeroes
       | in a row (which one could say is memorable/unusual)
        
       | quuxplusone wrote:
       | A few other memorable primes:
       | 
       | https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2420488/what-is-tri...
       | 888888888888888888888888888888
       | 888888888888888888888888888888
       | 888888888888888888888888888888
       | 888111111111111111111111111888
       | 888111111111111111111111111888
       | 888111111811111111118111111888
       | 888111118811111111118811111888
       | 888111188811111111118881111888
       | 888111188811111111118881111888
       | 888111888811111111118888111888
       | 888111888881111111188888111888
       | 888111888888111111888888111888
       | 888111888888888888888888111888
       | 888111888888888888888888111888
       | 888111888888888888888888111888
       | 888811188888888888888881118888
       | 188811188888888888888881118881
       | 188881118888888888888811188881
       | 118888111888888888888111888811
       | 111888811118888888811118888111
       | 111188881111111111111188881111
       | 111118888111111111111888811111
       | 111111888811111111118888111111
       | 111111188881111111188881111111
       | 111111118888811118888811111111
       | 111111111888881188888111111111
       | 111111111118888888811111111111
       | 111111111111888888111111111111
       | 111111111111118811111111111111
       | 111111111111111111111111111111
       | 062100000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000000
       | 000000000000000000000000000001
       | 
       | https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/146017/output-t...
       | 777777777777777777777777777777777777777
       | 777777777777777777777777777777777777777
       | 777777777777777777777777777777777777777
       | 777777777777777777777777777777777777777
       | 111111111111111111111111111111111111111
       | 111111111111111111111111111111111111111
       | 188888888118888888811188888811188888811
       | 188111118818811111881881111881881111881
       | 188111118818811111881881111111881111111
       | 188888888118888888811881111111881118888
       | 188111111118811111111881111111881111881
       | 188111111118811111111881111881881111881
       | 188111111118811111111188888811188888811
       | 111111111111111111111111111111111111111
       | 111111111111111111111111111111111111111
       | 333333333333333333333333333333333333333
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/a9544e/merry_christma...
       | 20181111111111111111111111111111111111
       | 11111111111111111166111111111111111111
       | 11111111111111111868011111111111111111
       | 11111111111111118886301111111111111111
       | 11111111111111168863586111111111111111
       | 11111111111111803608088361111111111111
       | 11111111111193386838898668111111111111
       | 11111111111111163508800111111111111111
       | 11111111111111806560885611111111111111
       | 11111111111118630808083861111111111111
       | 11111111111585688085086853511111111111
       | 11111111116355560388530533881111111111
       | 11111111506383308388080803858311111111
       | 11111183585588536538563360080880111111
       | 11111111111118383588055585111111111111
       | 11111111111568838588536853611111111111
       | 11111111118830583888838553631111111111
       | 11111111808885338530655586888811111111
       | 11111183886860888066566368806366111111
       | 11115385585036885386888980683008381111
       | 11055880566883886086806355803583885511
       | 11111111111111111685311111111111111111
       | 11111111111111111863311111111111111111
       | 11111111111111111035611111111111111111
        
         | jmward01 wrote:
         | These are great! I wonder if Carl Sagan knew about them when
         | writing Contact. The movie doesn't go into the part of the book
         | that is relevant here (trying to avoid spoilers but if you read
         | the book you know!)
        
           | quuxplusone wrote:
           | Here's a previous HN submission about finding Waldo in pi
           | (spoiler: only by cheating significantly re what counts as
           | "Waldo"): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30872676
           | 
           | I googled around trying to figure out what year James McKee
           | created the Trinity Hall prime. The internet is (IMO)
           | presenting it mainly as some kind of Wonder of the Ancient
           | World -- with the date of creation conveniently filed off.
           | The first post below claims that the year McKee left
           | Cambridge and created the prime was 1996. It seems to have
           | hit peak internet presence only in the 2010s, though, so I
           | wish there were an authoritative source to confirm (or deny)
           | the 1996 date.
           | 
           | https://www.bradyharanblog.com/blog/artistic-prime-numbers
           | 
           | https://www.futilitycloset.com/2017/09/10/trinity-hall-
           | prime...
           | 
           | https://www.futilitycloset.com/2020/01/12/more-prime-images/
        
         | noman-land wrote:
         | These are so cool.
        
       | xigency wrote:
       | Doesn't take very much searching to find this pretty nifty
       | palindrome prime:
       | 
       | 3,212,123 (the 333rd palindrome prime)
       | 
       | Interestingly, there are no four digit palindrome primes because
       | they would be divisible by 11. This is obvious in retrospect but
       | I found this fact by giving NotebookLM a big list of palindrome
       | primes (just to see what it could possibly say about it over a
       | podcast).
       | 
       | For the curious, here's a small set of the palindrome primes:
       | http://brainplex.net/pprimes.txt
       | 
       | The format is x. y. z. n signifying the x-th prime#, y-th
       | palindrome#, z-th palindrome-prime#, and the number (n).
       | [Starting from 2]
        
         | DerekL wrote:
         | > Interestingly, there are no four digit palindrome primes
         | because they would be divisible by 11.
         | 
         | In fact, this holds for any even number of digits.
        
         | oneshtein wrote:
         | 11111111111111111111111 is prime (1(c)23)
        
       | Retric wrote:
       | > Sloane calls them "memorable" primes
       | 
       | Excluding 11 seems arbitrary here.
        
         | DerekL wrote:
         | No, that doesn't fit the pattern. The number in the middle
         | can't be repeated.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | That's how it's excluded, not why we should care about the
           | pattern being exactly that formula.
        
             | DerekL wrote:
             | Sure, you could also look for primes of the form
             | 123...(n-1)n[?]n(n-1)...321.
        
         | oneshtein wrote:
         | 11
         | 
         | 131
         | 
         | 13331
         | 
         | 100000000000000000000333000000000000000000001 (20 zeroes on
         | both sides)
         | 
         | 11111111111111111111111 (1(c)23)
        
       | dchichkov wrote:
       | ChatGPT o1:
       | https://chatgpt.com/share/678feedb-0b2c-8001-bd77-4e574502e4...
       | 
       | > Thought about large prime check for 3m 52s: _" Despite its
       | interesting pattern of digits, 12,345,678,910,987,654,321 is
       | definitely not prime. It is a large composite number with no
       | small prime factors."_
       | 
       | Feels like this Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences (OEIS)
       | would be a good candidate for a hallucination benchmark...
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | I think firmly marrying llms with symbolic math
         | calculator/database, so they can check things they don't really
         | know "by heart" would go a long way towards making them seem
         | smart.
         | 
         | I really hope Wolfram is working on LLM that is trying to learn
         | what it means to be WolframAlpha user.
        
         | bongodongobob wrote:
         | Can we stop with the "haha llms can't do math" nonsense? You'll
         | one shot it every time if you tell it to use Python. You're
         | holding it wrong.
        
           | dchichkov wrote:
           | Sorry, but this was ChatGPT/o1 with access to code execution
           | (Python) and it used almost 4 minutes to do reasoning. It had
           | done a few checks with smaller numbers, all of which had
           | failed. And it proceeded to make a wrong conclusion (with
           | high confidence).
        
             | bongodongobob wrote:
             | Of course it failed. Tell it to write a program.
        
       | fxtentacle wrote:
       | 34567876543
       | 
       | 333 2 111 2 333
       | 
       | 1111 4 7 4 1111
       | 
       | 35753 3 35753
       | 
       | At one time, in university, I wrote a tool to aesthetically score
       | primes.
        
       | lambertsimnel wrote:
       | ...in decimal.
       | 
       | https://t5k.org/notes/words.html points out that "When we work in
       | base 36 all the letters are used - hence all words are numbers."
       | Primes can be especially memorable in base 36. "Did," "nun," and
       | "pop" are base-36 primes, as is "primetest" and many others.
        
         | norswap wrote:
         | Why use base 36 and not base 26?
        
           | quuxplusone wrote:
           | Or base 27, so you have space/hyphen as well.
           | https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/convert
        
           | lambertsimnel wrote:
           | We certainly could, but we already use 0-9 and then letters
           | for hexadecimal. Using all 26 letters for base 36, but not
           | base 26, is just an extension of that.
        
       | stevelosh wrote:
       | If you were around in the 80's and 90's you might have already
       | memorized the prime 8675309
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309/Jenny). It's also a twin
       | prime, so you can add 2 to get another prime (8675311).
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | I was around in the 80s, but this is awesome new information!
        
           | out-of-ideas wrote:
           | lol i didnt realize this was a prime number but i re-use this
           | number any time i need a fake phone number in some
           | sample/example data (im pretty certain nobody gets the
           | reference, or takes the time to read it)
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | I do the same thing! Downside is every time I read my tests
             | I get that song stuck in my head. Upside is it's a joy for
             | some people when they discover it in the test
        
         | nlh wrote:
         | My other favorite fun fact about this number (other than this
         | new prime info which I am excited to have learned) is that in
         | almost every store I've tried it, _someone_ has used that
         | (along with a local area code) as the phone number for a store
         | loyalty card.
         | 
         | I'm a Bay Area guy, so if you're ever at Safeway and need to
         | get the discount without giving up your personal info,
         | 415-867-5309 has got ya covered ;)
        
           | fancy_pantser wrote:
           | You can use the number with your local area code just about
           | anywhere at the pump to get a gas discount as well (a common
           | loyalty reward program benefit).
        
           | pwg wrote:
           | > someone has used that (along with a local area code) as the
           | phone number for a store loyalty card.
           | 
           | Usually because for far too long, noisy retailers wanted a
           | "phone number" upon checkout (even if one was paying cash --
           | Radio Shack was an especially bad one back in the day). For
           | those who didn't want to get yet more telemarketing calls,
           | repeating "Jenny's number" [1] from the song was a way to
           | "just buy" whatever it was you wanted. The minimum wage
           | cashier didn't care, but the cash register demanded "a
           | number". So giving the cashier Jenny's number worked.
           | 
           | This has largely faded now that they can track everyone via
           | one's credit card numbers.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/867-5309/Jenny
        
             | noahjk wrote:
             | Does contactless payment help at all? I know it uses a
             | different card number, but I'm not sure if it's a rotating
             | number.
        
               | pwg wrote:
               | If a given retailer gets the same number off your card
               | each time you do contactless, then that retailer /could/
               | track you via that number.
               | 
               | If all retailers get the same number, then they can each
               | track you, and correlate your purchases between
               | themselves.
               | 
               | Note, there just needs to be /some/ constant number from
               | whatever comes through via contactless, the number does
               | not have to be the magic numbers that post the sale to
               | the card.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | It doesn't rotate. Also it looks like if you use the
               | contactless method built into the actual card it _doesn
               | 't_ use a different number.
        
       | gregschlom wrote:
       | On the topic of palindromic numbers, I remember being fascinated
       | as a kid with the fact that if you square the number formed by
       | repeating the digit 1 between 1 and 9 times (e.g. 111,111^2) you
       | get a palindrome of the form 123...n...321 with n being the
       | number of 1s you squared.
       | 
       | The article talks about a very similar number: 2^31-1, which is
       | 12345678910987654321, whereas 1111111111^2 is
       | 12345678900987654321
        
         | ColinWright wrote:
         | You have misunderstood or mis-read the article ... 2^{31}-1 is
         | not 12345678910987654321.
         | 
         | Specifically, 2^{31}-1 = 2147483647.
         | 
         |  _Borel asked Dyson to name a prime number and, unlike
         | Grothendieck, Dyson provided a number that is only divisible by
         | 1 and itself: 2^{31) - 1._
         | 
         |  _But that reply did not satisfy Borel. He wanted Dyson to
         | recite all of the digits of a large prime number._
         | 
         |  _Dyson fell silent, so after a moment, Sloane jumped in and
         | said, "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2,
         | 1."_
         | 
         | So Sloane was supplying a different prime, but one where he
         | could recite all the digits.
        
           | gregschlom wrote:
           | Oh, thank you. Knowing very well that 2^32 is around 4
           | billion, I should have immediately noticed that
           | 12345678910987654321 is way to big to be 2^31
        
       | jonhohle wrote:
       | I there any more l33t prime than 31337?
        
       | hatthew wrote:
       | > Since prime numbers are very useful in secure communication,
       | such easy-to-remember large prime numbers can be of great
       | advantage in cryptography
       | 
       | What's the use of notable prime numbers in cryptography? My
       | understanding is that a lot of cryptography relies on _secret_
       | prime numbers, so choosing a notable /memorable prime number is
       | like choosing 1234 as your PIN. Are there places that need a
       | prime that's arbitrary, large, and public?
        
         | arh68 wrote:
         | I believe they're talking about something like ECC
         | 
         | > _To use ECC, all parties must agree on all the elements
         | defining the elliptic curve, that is, the domain parameters of
         | the scheme. The size of the field used is typically either
         | prime (and denoted as p) or is a power of two_
         | 
         | like "25519"
         | 
         | > _An EdDSA signature scheme is a choice: ... of finite field F
         | q over odd prime power q ... Ed25519 is the EdDSA signature
         | scheme where q = 2^255 - 19_
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic-
         | curve_cryptography#Do...
         | 
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EdDSA#Ed25519
        
         | ramchip wrote:
         | A lot of public-key cryptography is based on finite fields, and
         | the integers modulo N combined with addition and multiplication
         | form a finite field iff N is prime. This brings some extremely
         | useful properties e.g. every non-zero element has a
         | multiplicative inverse. N must also be public so people can
         | compute things (e.g. to verify a signature), and big to resist
         | brute force attacks.
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | RSA [1] is directly based on the difficulty of factoring very
         | large numbers where the factors of the number are also prime
         | numbers.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_(cryptosystem)
        
       | tkgally wrote:
       | My family's phone number when I was a child was both a palindrome
       | and a prime: 7984897.
       | 
       | My parents had had the number for two decades without noticing it
       | was a palindrome. I still remember my father's delight when he
       | got off a phone call with a friend: "Doug just said, 'Hey, I
       | dialed your number backwards and it was still you who answered.'
       | I never noticed that before!"
       | 
       | A few years later, around 1973, one of the other math nerds at my
       | high school liked to factor seven-digit phone numbers by hand
       | just for fun. I was then taking a programming class--Fortran IV,
       | punch cards--and one of my self-initiated projects was to write a
       | prime factoring program. I got the program to work, and, inspired
       | by my friend, I started factoring various phone numbers. Imagine
       | my own delight when I learned that my home phone number was not
       | only a palindrome but also prime.
       | 
       | Postscript: The reason we hadn't noticed that 7984897 was a
       | palindrome was because, until around 1970, phone numbers in our
       | area were written and spoken with the telephone exchange name
       | [1]. When I was small, I learned our phone number as "SYcamore 8
       | 4 8 9 7" or "S Y 8 4 8 9 7." We thought of the first two digits
       | as letters, not as numbers.
       | 
       | Second postscript: I lost contact with that prime-factoring
       | friend after high school. I see now that she went on to earn a
       | Ph.D. in mathematics, specialized in number theory, and had an
       | Erdos number of 1. In 1985, she published a paper titled "How
       | Often Is the Number of Divisors of _n_ a Divisor of _n_?" [2].
       | She died two years ago, at the age of sixty-six [3].
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange_names
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022314X85...
       | 
       | [3]
       | https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/legacyremembers/claudia...
        
         | tkgally wrote:
         | > In 1985, she published a paper titled "How Often Is the
         | Number of Divisors of n a Divisor of n?"
         | 
         | Claudia Spiro seems to have remained actively interested in
         | prime numbers into her sixties. In 2017, she published a paper
         | titled "On three consecutive prime-gaps":
         | 
         | https://projecteuclid.org/journals/rocky-mountain-journal-of...
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | I thought everybody factors phone numbers. I also factor the
         | odometer reading in my car while driving.
        
           | noman-land wrote:
           | How do you do mental factoring?
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | I don't usually keep the factors, but I have a variety of
             | techniques. Putting aside the trivial cases of divisibility
             | by 2, 3, 5, 111 and 372, a lot of it comes down to find
             | ways to make the numbers smaller, so, for example. my
             | current odometer reading is 13,857. To test for
             | divisibility by 7, I can turn that into 14,000-13852=143
             | which I can tell at a glance isn't divisible by 7. It is
             | divisible by 3, so I can reduce it to 4619 which isn't
             | divisible by 3 and I can also tell it's not divisible by
             | 11. I can also rule out 19 at a glance. To check 13, I
             | might do my right-side divisibility test where I start by
             | subtracting 39 from the right, which gives 458. I could
             | continue with that, but taking 39 from the left gets me to
             | a small enough number faster of 68 which isn't divisible by
             | 13. Right-side divisibility for 17 takes 119 from the right
             | leaving 45 which isn't divisible by 17. For 23, I can do a
             | left-side removal of 46 to rule that out. 29, go right to
             | bring it to 459 and then 43, not divisible by 29. For 31,
             | I'll do right side to get 434 and then 31 so 4619=149x31
             | and 149 is prime and I'm done.
             | 
             | [?]
             | 
             | 1. To check for divisibility by 11, subtract the sum of
             | even numbered digits from the sub of odd numbered digits.
             | If 11| _n_ , then you'll have a multiple of 11. E.g., for
             | 13,857, we compare (3+5)-(1+8+7)=-8 which is not a multiple
             | of 11.3
             | 
             | 2. To check for divisibility by 111, we take advantage of
             | the fact that 3x37=111, 27x37=999 and thus 1000[?]1(mod 37)
             | and we can then add up the digits in groups of 3, and pull
             | out the most convenient multiple of 111 to see if we have
             | 0, 37 or 74. E.g., with our example about,
             | 13+852=865-888=-23 which is not a multiple of 37.
             | 
             | 3. As an added bonus that number is the remainder when
             | dividing by 11. Similarly the number I get with the check
             | in footnote 2 is the remainder when dividing by 37.
        
         | tkgally wrote:
         | Follow-up: My formal study of programming stopped with that
         | Fortran IV class a half century ago, but LLMs now delude me
         | into thinking I can program. I just had Claude write me a
         | Python program to list all of the seven-digit numbers that are
         | both primes and palindromes. It found 668: 1003001, 1008001,
         | 1022201, 1028201, 1035301, ...
        
       | isaacfrond wrote:
       | _Since prime numbers are very useful in secure communication,
       | such easy-to-remember large prime numbers can be of great
       | advantage in cryptography,_
       | 
       | That's nonsense. I'm sure there thinking of RSA, but that needs
       | _secret_ prime numbers. So easy-to-remember is pretty much the
       | opposite of one want. Also they are way to big. 2048 bit RSA
       | needs two 300 digit prime numbers.
        
         | Uptrenda wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm no expert on mathematical cryptography but I was
         | thinking the same. Now what would be cool is... finding
         | memorable public keys. That would solve the key exchange
         | problem and allow for secure names without a register. But the
         | closest I've seen is brute forced ECDSA key pairs that hash to
         | having a vanity starting prefix.
         | 
         | I suppose some inspiration from brain wallets and encoding
         | schemes could be used to transform any public key into
         | something more memorable.
        
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