[HN Gopher] Interesting BiCMOS circuits in the Pentium, reverse-...
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       Interesting BiCMOS circuits in the Pentium, reverse-engineered
        
       Author : DamonHD
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2025-01-21 17:23 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.righto.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.righto.com)
        
       | kens wrote:
       | Is BiCMOS radical woke? :-) Author here for your Premium
       | questions...
        
         | smegsicle wrote:
         | whats that supposed to be some kind of sick joke?
        
           | kens wrote:
           | No. I'm making fun of the comments on my previous article
           | that called me "radical woke."
        
             | java-man wrote:
             | Oh please, we are all a bit sensitive right now.
             | 
             | We always enjoy reading your articles, Ken!
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | BiCMOS was supposed to be faster than CMOS. Whas this the case
         | with this processor ?
        
           | kens wrote:
           | Intel said that BiCMOS decreased signal delays by up to 35%,
           | although the total performance improvement would be less.
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | What areas still use bipolar? Does a switching power supply use
         | substantial bipolar? Does anybody still implement TTL or ECL?
         | 
         | Quoting you below...
         | 
         | "The most unusual circuit is the BiCMOS driver. By adding a few
         | extra processing steps to the regular CMOS manufacturing
         | process, bipolar (NPN and PNP) transistors can be created. The
         | Pentium extensively used BiCMOS circuits since they reduced
         | signal delays by up to 35%. Intel also used BiCMOS for the
         | Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, and Xeon processors.
         | However, as chip voltages dropped, the benefit from bipolar
         | transistors dropped too and BiCMOS was eventually abandoned."
         | 
         | I didn't realize that BiCMOS lasted so long. I thought it was
         | only used on the original Pentium, but I really didn't look
         | hard.
         | 
         | Edit: BiCMOS has a wiki.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BiCMOS
        
           | RicoElectrico wrote:
           | I think the best keyword to seek is BCD (Bipolar, CMOS, DMOS)
           | which is a process pioneered by ST. It is quite alive indeed.
           | 
           | Bipolar has for example lower noise than CMOS when it comes
           | to opamps.
        
             | qwezxcrty wrote:
             | Lower noise for lower source impedances, to be slightly
             | more precise.
        
       | rossdavidh wrote:
       | Ah, memories. I was a manufacturing engineer in a bipolar factory
       | from 1989 to 1992, and BiCMOS was the perennial hope for a future
       | for our acquired skills. When word broke that the Pentium would
       | have one, it seemed significant. On the whole, though, it didn't
       | have the impact that was hoped for; bipolar hangs on (like COBOL)
       | in certain niches, but I think despite the theoretical
       | advantages, the disadvantages of having to think about both
       | bipolar and CMOS transistors in the engineering, was too much of
       | a price to pay.
       | 
       | Lesser known reasons: as bipolar transistors went to polysilicon
       | gates (which have a tiny, ~1-2 Angstrom thick layer of oxide in
       | them) and MOS transistors started to become leakier through their
       | ever-shrinking gate oxides, the distinction between MOS and
       | bipolar transistors became fuzzier. Modern MOS transistors leak
       | less current through their gate oxides than the bipolar
       | transistors did through the polysilicon emitter, but the physics
       | of the two is not as different as it was twenty years ago.
        
         | FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
         | I remember the Exponential Technologies bipolar PowerPC chip
         | running at 533 MHz back in 1997... so sad Apple killed it
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/19970712065424/http://www.byte.c...
        
           | kens wrote:
           | That's an interesting chip. You don't see many bipolar
           | processors. (The Pentium has a few bipolar transistors
           | sprinkled around, but it's mostly CMOS.)
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | DEC made a one-off ECL CPU in 1993:
             | https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/tech_reports/WRL-93-8.pdf
             | 
             | 300 MHz / 115 W. Ten years later, you'd have Pentium 4 at
             | 3000 MHz and 115 W.
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-21 23:01 UTC)