[HN Gopher] Falcon 9 Rocket Launch Scrubbed After Delta Air Flie...
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Falcon 9 Rocket Launch Scrubbed After Delta Air Flies into
Restricted Airspace
Author : fenced_load
Score : 33 points
Date : 2025-01-20 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.paddleyourownkanoo.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.paddleyourownkanoo.com)
| gazchop wrote:
| This is slightly poetic after the flights diverted due to the
| Starship debris the other day.
|
| Also remind me never to fly Delta.
| bronco21016 wrote:
| If this is what you're choosing as criteria for never flying
| Delta I'm going to suggest you never fly out of LAX. Commercial
| airliners are directed by ATC along defined routes or given
| headings and altitudes by the ATC.
| gbear605 wrote:
| Delta seems to have done nothing wrong, they were following
| incorrect instructions from air traffic control.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Just to play devil's advocate for a second, but as a pilot
| (even a commercial pilot about to be instructed by ATC) are
| you not still expected to look up conditions in the area of
| your flight? I would expect NOTAMs to be a part of that check
| of the conditions. If you know of the restrictions and ATC
| instructs you into that area, a quick confirm request about
| the NOTAM conflict does not seem out of place.
| _s wrote:
| Yes & no, definitely more no for practical reasons. Let me
| explain;
|
| ATC are ultimately expected to know about restrictions and
| keep traffic away from them.
|
| NOTAM's are a notorious pain point for nearly all pilots.
| Modern EFB's make that easier, but in the 121 world - the
| ops folks handle your routing and plan for that stuff - as
| a pilot you "trust but verify", and most skim through the
| all the things (routing, fuels, weather, pax/cargo, notams,
| SIDS/STARS etc) to make sure that the flight is doable,
| it's doable safely, and it's "legal".
|
| What you're expecting is a pilot to have a read a NOTAM,
| memorised all the latitude / longitude co-ordinates that
| are in the NOTAM for the "grid" that's off limits, and the
| associated altitudes, know exactly where that is in
| relation to where they are, and then be able to ask ATC
| about it a few hours into their flight, when the
| instruction could be as benign as "Delta 100, turn right
| heading 040".
|
| Chances are the original routing for the flight kept them
| safely out of the TFR, but the ATC instruction for whatever
| sent them through it, even briefly. That instruction
| could've been for any number of reasons, from weather to
| traffic, to sequencing to even sidestepping a different
| restriction of some kind.
|
| Here's a NOTAM for a Starship launch (I don't know if it
| was for this one specifically, I don't want to use my
| limited brain cells right now):
|
| ``` B0995/24 NOTAMN MMFR/QRDCA/IV/BO/W/000/999/ MMFR
| 2411181300 2411262300 18-22 25 26 1300-1500 2100-2300, 23
| 24 1300-1400 2100-2300 DANGEROUS AREA FOR LAUNCHING OF
| ROCKET STARSHIP SUPER HEAVY ORBITAL TEST FLIGHT 6 LATERAL
| LIMIT AREA FORMED BY THE UNION OF THE FLW POINTS: 25 52
| 0.00N 097 11 0.00W 25 18 0.00N 096 30 0.00W 24 39 0.00N 093
| 13 0.00W 24 10 0.00N 090 17 0.00W 24 57 0.00N 089 36 0.00W
| 24 27 0.00N 085 58 0.00W 24 09 0.00N 084 11 0.00W 23 39
| 0.00N 081 10 0.00W 23 07 0.00N 078 45 0.00W 23 35 0.00N 078
| 36 0.00W 24 19 0.00N 082 13 0.00W 24 50 0.00N 084 33 0.00W
| 25 20 0.00N 087 20 0.00W 26 47 0.00N 092 60 0.00W 26 38
| 0.00N 095 39 0.00W 26 27 0.00N 096 32 0.00W 26 10 0.00N 097
| 11 0.00W 26 00 0.00N 097 14 0.00W 25 52 0.00N 097 11 0.00W
| MMFR SFC UNL ```
| geetee wrote:
| From the article, Delta pilots were following air traffic
| control directions.
| piombisallow wrote:
| Delta is like the single decent airline in the US.
| rlpb wrote:
| According to the article, they were flying the route as
| directed by air traffic control.
|
| As a pilot, I can tell you that when you're being controlled,
| the controller takes responsibility for your navigation. This
| had nothing to do with Delta specifically. Any other pilot
| flying under the same conditions would have done the same.
| hawthornio wrote:
| Found Elon's HN sock-puppet lmao
| DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
| Interesting.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling,
| brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades
| discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about
| abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| dmckeon wrote:
| > Delta: "The Delta crew on flight 480 continues to follow ATC
| instruction along its journey from Los Angeles (LAX) to Honolulu
| (HNL). The flight is en route to HNL with no issue."
|
| Apparently ATC (Air Traffic Control) was unaware of the TRF
| (Temporary Flight Restriction) around Vandenburg for launches.
| Perhaps this will prompt an improvement in communication and
| cooperation in future.
| stravant wrote:
| I wonder if ATC gets a number to call.
| dylan604 wrote:
| It's should not be ATC's responsibility to call anyone with
| random checks for NOTAMs to issue. If you want a NOTAM, you
| call ATC.
|
| At least, that's the only way it makes any kind of logical
| sense.
| L-four wrote:
| Grandparent was a joke, when airplane pilots make a
| mistake. ATC gives them a number to call.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Please don't post about things you don't know anything
| about. The internet is muddled enough as it is.
| gresrun wrote:
| The ATC was very much aware of the launch in progress[0]. The
| ATC made a mistake by instructing DL480 to fly a more northern
| route than the aircrew originally filed.
|
| [0]: https://youtu.be/4RMhf0YELrA
| rob74 wrote:
| BTW, it's written Vandenberg, not Vandenburg as in the article.
| russdill wrote:
| There's still a lot of disagreement as to the details of this
| event https://x.com/DJSnM/status/1881114751998279729
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(page generated 2025-01-20 23:00 UTC)