[HN Gopher] Falcon 9 Rocket Launch Scrubbed After Delta Air Flie...
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       Falcon 9 Rocket Launch Scrubbed After Delta Air Flies into
       Restricted Airspace
        
       Author : fenced_load
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2025-01-20 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.paddleyourownkanoo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.paddleyourownkanoo.com)
        
       | gazchop wrote:
       | This is slightly poetic after the flights diverted due to the
       | Starship debris the other day.
       | 
       | Also remind me never to fly Delta.
        
         | bronco21016 wrote:
         | If this is what you're choosing as criteria for never flying
         | Delta I'm going to suggest you never fly out of LAX. Commercial
         | airliners are directed by ATC along defined routes or given
         | headings and altitudes by the ATC.
        
         | gbear605 wrote:
         | Delta seems to have done nothing wrong, they were following
         | incorrect instructions from air traffic control.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Just to play devil's advocate for a second, but as a pilot
           | (even a commercial pilot about to be instructed by ATC) are
           | you not still expected to look up conditions in the area of
           | your flight? I would expect NOTAMs to be a part of that check
           | of the conditions. If you know of the restrictions and ATC
           | instructs you into that area, a quick confirm request about
           | the NOTAM conflict does not seem out of place.
        
             | _s wrote:
             | Yes & no, definitely more no for practical reasons. Let me
             | explain;
             | 
             | ATC are ultimately expected to know about restrictions and
             | keep traffic away from them.
             | 
             | NOTAM's are a notorious pain point for nearly all pilots.
             | Modern EFB's make that easier, but in the 121 world - the
             | ops folks handle your routing and plan for that stuff - as
             | a pilot you "trust but verify", and most skim through the
             | all the things (routing, fuels, weather, pax/cargo, notams,
             | SIDS/STARS etc) to make sure that the flight is doable,
             | it's doable safely, and it's "legal".
             | 
             | What you're expecting is a pilot to have a read a NOTAM,
             | memorised all the latitude / longitude co-ordinates that
             | are in the NOTAM for the "grid" that's off limits, and the
             | associated altitudes, know exactly where that is in
             | relation to where they are, and then be able to ask ATC
             | about it a few hours into their flight, when the
             | instruction could be as benign as "Delta 100, turn right
             | heading 040".
             | 
             | Chances are the original routing for the flight kept them
             | safely out of the TFR, but the ATC instruction for whatever
             | sent them through it, even briefly. That instruction
             | could've been for any number of reasons, from weather to
             | traffic, to sequencing to even sidestepping a different
             | restriction of some kind.
             | 
             | Here's a NOTAM for a Starship launch (I don't know if it
             | was for this one specifically, I don't want to use my
             | limited brain cells right now):
             | 
             | ``` B0995/24 NOTAMN MMFR/QRDCA/IV/BO/W/000/999/ MMFR
             | 2411181300 2411262300 18-22 25 26 1300-1500 2100-2300, 23
             | 24 1300-1400 2100-2300 DANGEROUS AREA FOR LAUNCHING OF
             | ROCKET STARSHIP SUPER HEAVY ORBITAL TEST FLIGHT 6 LATERAL
             | LIMIT AREA FORMED BY THE UNION OF THE FLW POINTS: 25 52
             | 0.00N 097 11 0.00W 25 18 0.00N 096 30 0.00W 24 39 0.00N 093
             | 13 0.00W 24 10 0.00N 090 17 0.00W 24 57 0.00N 089 36 0.00W
             | 24 27 0.00N 085 58 0.00W 24 09 0.00N 084 11 0.00W 23 39
             | 0.00N 081 10 0.00W 23 07 0.00N 078 45 0.00W 23 35 0.00N 078
             | 36 0.00W 24 19 0.00N 082 13 0.00W 24 50 0.00N 084 33 0.00W
             | 25 20 0.00N 087 20 0.00W 26 47 0.00N 092 60 0.00W 26 38
             | 0.00N 095 39 0.00W 26 27 0.00N 096 32 0.00W 26 10 0.00N 097
             | 11 0.00W 26 00 0.00N 097 14 0.00W 25 52 0.00N 097 11 0.00W
             | MMFR SFC UNL ```
        
         | geetee wrote:
         | From the article, Delta pilots were following air traffic
         | control directions.
        
         | piombisallow wrote:
         | Delta is like the single decent airline in the US.
        
         | rlpb wrote:
         | According to the article, they were flying the route as
         | directed by air traffic control.
         | 
         | As a pilot, I can tell you that when you're being controlled,
         | the controller takes responsibility for your navigation. This
         | had nothing to do with Delta specifically. Any other pilot
         | flying under the same conditions would have done the same.
        
         | hawthornio wrote:
         | Found Elon's HN sock-puppet lmao
        
           | DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
           | Interesting.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling,
           | brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades
           | discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about
           | abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
       | dmckeon wrote:
       | > Delta: "The Delta crew on flight 480 continues to follow ATC
       | instruction along its journey from Los Angeles (LAX) to Honolulu
       | (HNL). The flight is en route to HNL with no issue."
       | 
       | Apparently ATC (Air Traffic Control) was unaware of the TRF
       | (Temporary Flight Restriction) around Vandenburg for launches.
       | Perhaps this will prompt an improvement in communication and
       | cooperation in future.
        
         | stravant wrote:
         | I wonder if ATC gets a number to call.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | It's should not be ATC's responsibility to call anyone with
           | random checks for NOTAMs to issue. If you want a NOTAM, you
           | call ATC.
           | 
           | At least, that's the only way it makes any kind of logical
           | sense.
        
             | L-four wrote:
             | Grandparent was a joke, when airplane pilots make a
             | mistake. ATC gives them a number to call.
        
             | IncreasePosts wrote:
             | Please don't post about things you don't know anything
             | about. The internet is muddled enough as it is.
        
         | gresrun wrote:
         | The ATC was very much aware of the launch in progress[0]. The
         | ATC made a mistake by instructing DL480 to fly a more northern
         | route than the aircrew originally filed.
         | 
         | [0]: https://youtu.be/4RMhf0YELrA
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | BTW, it's written Vandenberg, not Vandenburg as in the article.
        
       | russdill wrote:
       | There's still a lot of disagreement as to the details of this
       | event https://x.com/DJSnM/status/1881114751998279729
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-20 23:00 UTC)