[HN Gopher] A physicist's guide to ice cream
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       A physicist's guide to ice cream
        
       Author : sohkamyung
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2025-01-16 12:25 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (physicsworld.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (physicsworld.com)
        
       | Xmd5a wrote:
       | I started cooking ice cream this summer. I bought an ice cream
       | machine that can yield 1L of ice cream in 30 minutes, and
       | prepared about 30L, sometimes sourcing material from the garden
       | (strawberries, raspberries, cherries, figs and blackberries). If
       | you enjoy the taste of fresh figs (which I don't normally because
       | of the texture of the fruit) it is an incredible way to preserve
       | it.
       | 
       | The best ice cream I made was blueberry + coco cream + lime.
       | Highly recommend it. Coco cream as a substitute for water in
       | sorbet is an amazing trick.
       | 
       | Shared this with a friend yesterday:                   1.
       | **Creaminess (smooth, creamy texture)**           Creaminess | =
       | Cream | + Eggs | + Sugar |           Creaminess | = Water | +
       | Fresh fruits (high in water) |                    2. **Lightness
       | (airy texture)**           Lightness | = Milk | + Cream | + Eggs
       | | + Sugar |           Lightness | = Air incorporation (whipping)
       | |                    3. **Stability (avoiding crystallization)**
       | Stability | = Sugar | + Eggs (yolks) | + Alcohol |
       | Stability | = Water | + Uneven freezing temperature |
       | 4. **Density (weight in the mouth)**           Density | = Fats
       | (cream, butter) | + Eggs | + Sugar |           Density | =
       | Incorporated air | + Water |                    5. **Melting
       | Temperature (softer or harder out of the freezer)**
       | Melting Temperature | (softer) = Sugar | + Alcohol | + Air |
       | Melting Temperature | (harder) = Water | + Freezing temperature |
       | 6. **Sweetness (perceived sugar)**           Sweetness | = Sugar
       | | + Sweet fruit puree |           Sweetness | = Acidity (lemon,
       | vinegar) | + Acidic fruits |                    7.
       | **Crystallization (grainy or smooth texture)**
       | Crystallization | = Water | + Poorly mixed ingredients |
       | Crystallization | = Fats | + Sugar | + Proper agitation |
        
         | eleveriven wrote:
         | Have you tried incorporating herbs (like basil with
         | strawberries)? Or you do not like that kind of things?
        
           | Xmd5a wrote:
           | Yes, I have, and this is a bad idea (strawberry + mint). The
           | problem is that the herbs become harder than the ice cream,
           | creating an unpleasant sensation in the mouth. I had a
           | similar issue with a toffee ice cream where I tried
           | incorporating small cubes, but they became too hard when
           | frozen.
           | 
           | One possible solution could be to candy the herbs (though
           | it's a lot of work) or to soften the toffee by turning it
           | into a kind of cream, freezing it separately, and then
           | folding it into the ice cream at the last moment. This
           | challenge is addressed in the article,
           | 
           | >We need to add sugar to the fruit to make sure it is softer
           | than the ice cream itself - you don't want to bite into ice
           | cream and find a hard, frozen berry.
           | 
           | and considering you almost never see artisanal ice creams
           | with chunks (unlike industrial ones like Ben & Jerry's, for
           | example), this is where culinary engineering becomes
           | essential I guess.
        
             | rokkamokka wrote:
             | Perhaps if you grind the herbs very finely they'll disperse
             | better in the ice cream
        
               | Xmd5a wrote:
               | Indeed this is what I do with lemon zests. I put them in
               | a blender with the juice for 10 minutes at maximum power
               | (as a result, the mixture must become hot). Add two egg
               | whites beaten into stiff peaks for 3/4L, and you'll get
               | the softest, tastiest lemon ice cream you've ever eaten.
        
               | 1cool wrote:
               | If one is too lazy to infuse, it's nice to add homemade
               | caramel or compote. Snacks like Lotus biscuits are
               | excellent too.
        
               | jordanwallwork wrote:
               | Or infuse them in the milk/cream and then strain out?
        
             | seec wrote:
             | If you don't care about having the bits for texture and
             | only care about the taste you could infuse the cream. Heat
             | the cream (stop before boiling of course), add the bits,
             | let it rest for a while and then sieve it. I will add some
             | time but it should work.
             | 
             | I'm also not a fan of ice cream with solid stuff. If you
             | can't lick it pleasurably, it's not really ice cream in my
             | book.
        
             | prpl wrote:
             | I would blend the herbs in rum, then strain and use the rum
             | with simple syrup.
             | 
             | Similar to this: https://www.seriouseats.com/dave-arnolds-
             | thai-basil-daiquiri...
        
         | zo1 wrote:
         | Thank you very much for this! I remember eating a very "cheap"
         | icecream as a kid, that was more "ice" or "frozen" than the
         | creamy (expensive) goop I find everywhere these days. I think
         | it's down to a combination of less creaminess, and more
         | crystallization (to follow your list). But this kind of concise
         | guide or explanation really let's me try to recreate that
         | texture, as I don't think it's something that anyone would
         | "sell" traditionally.
         | 
         | The ice-cream was "cheap" I think because it was made in a
         | "failing" country that still had a relatively functioning dairy
         | and manufacturing chain, so they were doing their best to still
         | make icecream whilst dealing with the loss of key ingredients
         | and dwindling margins stemming from the economic situation.
        
           | zabzonk wrote:
           | that would be a sorbet?
        
             | zo1 wrote:
             | Might be? But I've only ever had fruity or flavored
             | sorbets. So maybe I just need to find one that's leaning
             | more on the plain/traditional ice cream flavors like
             | vanilla and chocolate.
        
           | xandrius wrote:
           | The worst offender is when the ice-cream feels "airy". Icy is
           | nice for fruity bases, while not great for creams.
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | Airy ice cream is also lighter. Beware pints that weigh
             | less than expected. At a minimum, it indicates a ton of air
             | whipped into the mix. But it's also a decent proxy for low-
             | quality ingredients or garbage fillers.
             | 
             | In the grocery store / mass market context, it's hard to do
             | much better than Haagen-Dazs. Just be aware that their
             | "pints" are now only 88% of a pint (this baffles me -- are
             | the ingredients really a meaningful contributor to total
             | COGS?).
        
         | xandrius wrote:
         | I know this is a simplified version but sugar is not detailed
         | enough (different types of sugar, like dextrose), also I see no
         | mention of carob seeds, also very important to get a creamy
         | texture.
        
         | gunian wrote:
         | kind of weird question is it cook? does one cook ice cream?
         | always assumed cook implied fire or some sort of heat source
        
           | hansvm wrote:
           | The cheap answer is "yes" -- see custard ice creams as an
           | example.
           | 
           | Typically though, "cooking" requires heat, and most non-
           | custard ice creams wouldn't be cooked. Even in the same
           | phrase when talking about cooking other things, you'd say
           | something like "I'm cooking steak and also making ice cream."
           | 
           | I'm sure some regions use the word differently, and adding a
           | bit of ambiguous context might make on-the-fence regions more
           | likely to use "cook" for cold-prepared dishes. E.g., if you
           | talk about cooking dinner or cooking a meal and then list the
           | things being prepared (one of which is ice cream), the verb
           | "cook" is, in some sense, being applied to the ice cream.
           | That ambiguity can color the verbs you subsequently choose
           | when referring to just the ice cream.
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | > does one cook ice cream?
           | 
           | Yes. Many recipes require heating of the ingredients.
           | 
           | Here is one example picked randomly:
           | https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/ultimate-vanilla-ice-
           | cre...
           | 
           | "Step 4: Return the pan to a low heat and cook, stirring all
           | the time with a wooden spoon, for 8-10 minutes, until the
           | custard is thick enough to coat the back of the spoon."
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Short of constantly stirring a pot full of the ice cream
         | custard, do you have any solutions for getting the mixture up
         | to temperature without scalding the milk/cream?
        
       | holowoodman wrote:
       | The best ice cream recipe ever I got from a physicist:
       | 
       | Cream + sugar + vanilla, stir until dissolved. Slowly add liquid
       | nitrogen while stirring fervently until sufficiently frozen.
       | 
       | The stirring in of the liquid nitrogen not only freezes the
       | cream, it prevents any cristallisation and fluffs up the ice
       | cream by evaporating. Truly delicious!
        
         | oakwhiz wrote:
         | I can confirm that this works and is delicious.
        
         | xxs wrote:
         | if you have LN2, you can add high spirits as well -
         | bitter/sweet liquors are a classic in that combo.
        
           | oakwhiz wrote:
           | You can add too much liquor and it will still freeze nicely.
           | Spiced rum was pretty good.
        
         | bruce343434 wrote:
         | How much of each?
        
           | holowoodman wrote:
           | Just look up any ice cream recipe. Doesn't really matter.
           | 
           | I've used 1l of plain cream, 100g of sugar and the marrow of
           | 1 1/2 vanilla pods.
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | Add sugar to taste, while liquid. IMO you can never add too
           | much vanilla.
        
         | soegaard wrote:
         | The fat content seems too high. Don't you get a film of fat
         | covering the top of you mouth?
        
           | holowoodman wrote:
           | Depends on the cream you use. But basically it doesn't really
           | matter, you can also use milk, even skimmed milk. Any liquid
           | icecream-mix works, only chunky stuff is problematic.
        
         | haliax wrote:
         | Where do you get liquid nitrogen as a home cook? I've tried to
         | get my hands on both that and dry ice without any luck
        
       | Theodores wrote:
       | my view of ice cream has changed over time. I grew up close to
       | the biggest factory for ice cream in the UK where it was adjacent
       | to the biggest bacon factory in the UK.
       | 
       | The myth at the time was that the fat from the bacon went next
       | door to the ice cream factory. At the time the label just said
       | 'animal fats' rather than 'dairy' so there was nothing to dispel
       | the myth.
       | 
       | Since then the formulation has changed, now you get the usual
       | palm oil. As far as ultra-processed foods go, is there anything
       | worse than commercial ice cream? You have got animal fats or palm
       | oil to block your arteries, refined sugar to spike your glucose
       | and lots of emulsifiers and other 'e numbers' to disrupt your
       | digestive tract?
       | 
       | Most ice cream is sold in tourist venues where the vendor knows
       | he will never see the customer ever again. There is zero
       | motivation to make it a healthy product or to use quality
       | ingredients when you are not expecting repeat customers.
       | 
       | In other developments, there is a move to have more efficient
       | freezers for ice cream in stores, which means changing the
       | temperature so it does not need to be stored at such a low
       | temperature. The likes of Unilever can spend a fortune on the
       | food science to get the temperature up, to roll out new freezers.
        
         | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
         | > _There is zero motivation to make it a healthy product_
         | 
         | Heh. I mean, uh, oh no!
        
         | altacc wrote:
         | While clearing out an old tub of ice cream I noticed that
         | industrial ice cream doesn't melt in the same way as 'real' ice
         | cream. It holds its shape well beyond what you'd expect. Left
         | at room temperature real ice cream puddles, industrial ice
         | cream slumps. There's emulsifiers and stabilizers that keep the
         | consistency for a larger range of temperatures, so that's it's
         | soft to scoop at -18C whereas real ice cream is as hard as
         | concrete. The ingredients list includes things such as whey
         | powder rather than milk. Like so many ultra processed foods
         | it's just cheap powdered ultra processed ingredients held
         | together and flavoured by additives.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | I have seen scoops of cheap ice cream, accidentally dropped
           | onto pavement on a hot sunny day in the Southern US, maintain
           | their scoop-like shape for hours.
           | 
           | Cheap ice cream is not ice cream. Do not eat.
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | >Cheap ice cream is not ice cream
             | 
             | Most of the UK's "ice cream" would be called Frozen Dairy
             | Dessert in the US.
             | 
             | In the United States, cheap ice cream is quite literally
             | not ice cream. It's "frozen dairy dessert".
        
         | racl101 wrote:
         | > Since then the formulation has changed, now you get the usual
         | palm oil. As far as ultra-processed foods go, is there anything
         | worse than commercial ice cream?
         | 
         | The ice cream that Walmart sold from its own personal line was
         | messed up. It did not melt as fast as other ice cream and was
         | oily.
         | 
         | I'd rather eat no ice cream than eat that.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | My local supermarket only sells the basic flavors vanilla,
       | strawberry and chocolate. But then they sell dozens of variants
       | of Ben and Jerry's and similar brands. I wish this was the other
       | way around. Just give me boxes of single flavors like in the
       | Italian gelaterias.
       | 
       | I guess supermarkets get higher margins on B&J's :(
        
         | telesilla wrote:
         | I completely agree. It's difficult to get quality vanilla ice
         | cream except at a gelataria or fancy market shop. Reading this
         | thread however makes me brave enough to try making my own once
         | summer appears.
         | 
         | I'll probably go for something inconvenient so I need to pre-
         | freeze the bowl and thus avoid an unhealthy constant flow of
         | ice cream, but tech these days seems pretty good to make
         | homemade gelato:
         | 
         | https://www.seriouseats.com/the-best-ice-cream-makers
        
           | sk5t wrote:
           | Costco's "super premium vanilla" is quite nice---better than
           | any other mass market vanilla.
        
       | mongol wrote:
       | Last summer I experimented making ice cream without ice cream
       | machine. The principle I used was to freeze it in plastic bags,
       | take them out once or twice to "massage them" and then to squeeze
       | them out into a frozen bowl where they rest in the freezer until
       | eating time.
       | 
       | The recipes are important too of course. The sugars need to be a
       | mixture of fructose and dextrose. Also used a stabilising agent.
       | But eventually I could create really good ice cream with a
       | minimum of equipment.
        
       | baruchthescribe wrote:
       | I started making my grandmother's recipe again recently and it's
       | amazing and amazingly simple. A pint of cream, a tin of condensed
       | milk and a teaspoon of vanilla extract. Whip the cream until it
       | lightly peaks, stir in the condensed milk and the vanilla and
       | freeze for at least 4 hours. Done. You can add choc chips or
       | whatever flavor you want at the condensed milk stage.
        
       | Blackthorn wrote:
       | The basic Ben& Jerry's recipe in an ice cream machine is pretty
       | much unbeatable if you're looking for traditional ice cream. On
       | the other hand, I've tried, without much luck, lower calorie ice
       | creams using substitute sugars like allulose. Unfortunately, they
       | haven't turned out very well. It really is the combination of
       | real sugar, fat, protein, and all that that comes together in the
       | cold to make the magic happen.
        
         | buu700 wrote:
         | In my experience after a decade of trial and error, inulin
         | fiber sweetened with stevia and monk fruit[1] is pretty much a
         | perfect sugar substitute. If anything, the texture might be a
         | little better than sugar.
         | 
         | Inulin is slightly tricky to work with because it clumps up
         | easily when it comes into contact with liquid (likely for the
         | same reason, when baking with it I prefer ghee to butter), but
         | it mixes into the heated custard base on the stove without too
         | much trouble as long as you stir well while pouring it in.
         | 
         | Another tip that's worked well for me: instead of milk or half-
         | and-half, I use a 50:50 ratio of heavy cream to egg white +
         | coconut water. In other words, I use whole eggs and then add an
         | amount of coconut water that matches the difference between
         | volumes of heavy cream and egg white. I don't recall offhand
         | how the math on that works out (it's somewhere in an old
         | ChatGPT log that I've been meaning to properly document), but
         | it's a lot easier than separating yolks and it gets a great
         | result with less sugar than milk or half-and-half.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.lowcarbfoods.com/low-carb-white-sugar-
         | sweetener-...
        
         | NegatioN wrote:
         | I wonder if that's at all related to different sugars
         | configuration at different temperatures as described by
         | AppliedScience [0].
         | 
         | Maybe there are other substitute sugars out there which work
         | well at low temperatures?
         | 
         | 0: https://youtu.be/kiuXasyB3L0?si=b_-6iNw1TD35alG4
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | History of Ice Cream is starting to sound realer by the day
        
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