[HN Gopher] Please don't force dark mode
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Please don't force dark mode
        
       Author : vishnuharidas
       Score  : 115 points
       Date   : 2025-01-19 21:27 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (iamvishnu.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (iamvishnu.com)
        
       | phyzix5761 wrote:
       | Please don't force Light Mode on users. Thanks
        
         | sesm wrote:
         | To work around light mode we have Dark Reader extension. Is the
         | author frustrated enough to make a Light Reader extension?
        
           | SSLy wrote:
           | dark reader can already in fact lighten up dark pages
        
           | 42lux wrote:
           | Darkreader has an option to force light mode.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | The dark reader extension can force a light theme as well. It
           | would be more properly named the "respect my theme
           | preferences for real" extension. It is a bit annoying that it
           | is necessary.
        
       | nfw2 wrote:
       | This particular blog doesn't heed device settings and, as such,
       | forces light mode on its readers.
       | 
       | The author also changes their mind halfway through and decides
       | the problem is actually color contrast, not dark mode.
        
         | Springtime wrote:
         | Yeah their actual point is about contrast ratio, which makes
         | the headline a bit disingenuous.
         | 
         | Ironically they end by saying they'll use an invert filter as a
         | workaround, while for those who prefer dark mode if doing the
         | same on the author's own stark white bg/black text site (such
         | as Vivaldi's 'Invert Mode') will produce the very contrast
         | ratio in dark they're complaining about :p
        
         | gregmac wrote:
         | The author's blog also explicitly defines
         | color: #111;         background-color: #fdfdfd;
         | 
         | which is a contrast ratio of 18:56:1.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | I think the more specific argument is to avoid sudden changes in
       | brightness.
       | 
       | Neither dark mode nor light mode is the one true "main" option.
       | We had dark mode for a long time with terminals. Then light mode
       | a long time with word processors and the web and OSes. And now we
       | kinda have both.
        
       | kenanfyi wrote:
       | Anthony Hobday [1] has some pre-defined color combinations on his
       | website. Sharing, since I find it related.
       | 
       | [1]: https://anthonyhobday.com/sideprojects/containercolours/
        
       | lol768 wrote:
       | I very rarely stumble across sites that genuinely force dark
       | mode.. they usually respect "prefers-color-scheme dark" (as they
       | should).
        
       | loloquwowndueo wrote:
       | Can someone share a guide or how to for detecting the device's
       | preference and honouring that? That sounds optimal.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pref...
        
         | ss64 wrote:
         | It is built into the CSS standard
         | 
         | /* Dark mode */ @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) { ... }
         | 
         | The issue with both dark and light modes is so many designers
         | seem to have jumped onto the idea that colour schemes have to
         | be either bright white or darkest black.
         | 
         | I'd much rather see colours that are 'slightly darker' at night
         | and 'slightly lighter' in the daytime. For one thing there are
         | still so many websites with no colour schemes setup at all so
         | if you avoid going to extremes it minimises the contrast
         | difference.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | The dark mode background should be actually black so our OLED
           | screens can turn their pixels off completely.
        
           | Springtime wrote:
           | The other issue is many sites don't use that CSS media query
           | at the minimum for auto setting the theme. They instead use a
           | Javascript approach that often involves local storage/cookies
           | even if no choice is made, which doesn't work if those are
           | blocked and/or Javascript disabled. In such cases the default
           | theme is forced.
           | 
           | The optimal approach is applying the appropriate `prefers-
           | color-scheme` using CSS alone, while additionally allowing a
           | theme override using JS/storage. Fewer do this though, even
           | though it wouldn't require any cookies and thus no consent
           | dialog.
           | 
           | The worst are sites that only have theme switching gated
           | behind registration.
        
         | duncan-donuts wrote:
         | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pref...
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Firefox has a default color for text and background. I wonder,
         | if you just don't set a color, is that what gets used?
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | The truth is that you need to do device detection, so the
         | @prefers CSS stuff, then you need to have a toggle to over-ride
         | things. Then you need some javascript to store the preference
         | in local storage.
         | 
         | On page load you get your javascript to check the mode and
         | check the override to add a class to the whole page. It is this
         | class that implements the desired light or dark theme.
         | 
         | Fighting against you is what the browser is doing. You can put
         | a meta tag in to force it to respect one theme or the other so
         | it does not go freestyling.
         | 
         | People that have a page permanently set to light mode (or dark
         | mode) have put in the meta tag but they haven't done the extra
         | work to implement some meaningful choice.
         | 
         | In summary, there is auto, where the browser does its best, one
         | mode enforced with a meta tag, then a full solution where there
         | is a pretty button on the page and some javascript to honour
         | the preference, keeping the preference in local storage.
         | 
         | Bonus points for adding an event observer to detect the change
         | in preferences from outside the browser or in dev tools.
         | 
         | More bonus points for having no FOUC.
         | 
         | Extra, extra bonus points, is to implement not just a 'dark
         | mode', but a DARK mode. In light mode everything is kittens and
         | rainbows, whereas in dark mode the content is kind of gruesome
         | and 'dark'. Any subject can be treated this way, a page on say,
         | watermelons could be full of tasty recipe ideas in light mode,
         | but, in dark mode, it could be about dropping them off tall
         | buildings with busy streets below...
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | We've again came to full circle, with so many posts damning "no
       | dark mode" sites back then. Maybe there is enough audience now
       | for a "BrightReader" browser extension?
        
       | smlavine wrote:
       | I agree with this. Default, unconfigurable light mode has been
       | around for a while, and infrastructure like the Dark Reader
       | plugin is around to address this. There is no such thing for
       | light mode, though.
       | 
       | In my opinion, light mode is better than dark mode in most
       | situations. The only situation dark mode is better than light
       | mode is when you're sitting in a dark room with your screen as
       | your only light source, and most of the time that's not really a
       | healthy situation to be in. Dark mode is a crutch. Turn on a
       | light or go to sleep.
       | 
       | Light mode might be annoying to read in no-light environments,
       | but dark mode is nigh impossible to read in high-light
       | environments. Ever try to read a dark mode UI on your phone on a
       | bright summer's day? Can't read a thing, even with brightness
       | cranked all the way up.
        
         | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
         | > _The only situation dark mode is better than light mode is
         | when you 're sitting in a dark room with your screen as your
         | only light source, and most of the time that's not really a
         | healthy situation to be in. Dark mode is a crutch. Turn on a
         | light or go to sleep._
         | 
         | It's always been strange to me how many people without a
         | medical reason for doing so want to sit in dark rooms like cave
         | trolls, but there we are.
         | 
         | At least now operating systems all have switchable modes that
         | get reported to the browser. The browser can/should adapt to
         | whatever setting the OS reports.
         | 
         | But UI design is, with a few islands of rationality in history
         | from people like Paul Fitts, mostly a cascade of poorly applied
         | vibes and fads. First people say that contrast is bad, so then
         | people don't use enough contrast. Then people say that
         | brightness is bad, so people don't use enough brightness. Then
         | people realize why contrast and brightness were important all
         | along and the circle of life continues.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | > It's always been strange to me how many people without a
           | medical reason for doing so want to sit in dark rooms like
           | cave trolls, but there we are.
           | 
           | As a millennial, I grew up with rooms being lit by 1-3
           | relatively dim lampshaded 40-60w incandescent bulbs at night.
           | As a result that's what feels comfortable and relaxing to me
           | as an adult. Rooms at home being brightly lit at night feels
           | grating and reminiscent of a grocery store or hospital or
           | something.
        
           | carlosjobim wrote:
           | > It's always been strange to me how many people without a
           | medical reason for doing so want to sit in dark rooms like
           | cave trolls, but there we are.
           | 
           | Because screens are not bright enough to use outside or in
           | well-lit environments.
           | 
           | If E-ink or similar technology manages to get a bit better
           | refresh rates, it's going to change building architecture in
           | the entire industrialized world.
        
         | tbrownaw wrote:
         | > * only situation dark mode is better than light mode is when
         | you're sitting in a dark room with your screen as your only
         | light source,*
         | 
         | Also maybe if you set your screen brightness inappropriately
         | high.
        
           | lukan wrote:
           | Or if you are sensitive to light.
           | 
           | I feel kind of traumatized for years of forced light mode
           | everywhere. It hurts my eyes.
           | 
           | In bright sun when outside, I use light mode. Allmost
           | everywhere else, I won't. So please @everyone thinking like
           | this, don't assume, what is best for me, because your taste
           | is different.
        
           | jezek2 wrote:
           | Yeah, most people use their screens with brightness cranked
           | up and then wonder why they have all sort of problems.
           | 
           | The trick is to set a low brightness, in my case it's a
           | little below what you would call comfortable, but that's
           | because you adapt to it in a sec and will be perceived as
           | good.
           | 
           | If you can't set it too low on the monitor, set brightness to
           | 0 and lower the contrast. If it's still too bright use also
           | brightness/contrast controls in your GPU settings. It is also
           | needed to adjust the settings during the day. But having a
           | more controlled light in your room is a better option.
           | 
           | Once you start getting comments from others that they can't
           | see shit on your screen then you've set the correct level :)
           | 
           | Another very often forgotten thing is to set up correct gamma
           | correction! Yes that thing from CRTs is often needed on LCDs
           | too! LCDs can produce quite big contrast which is unpleasant,
           | for example I set mine to 1.3, fixed it nicely for me.
           | 
           | One approach to find a good value is to have antialiased text
           | both in white-on-black and black-on-white and switching
           | between these. Once the apparent thickness is the same then
           | you've got the right value. Beware of ClearType settings
           | though, you may need to do the test with a classic
           | antialiasing instead.
           | 
           | The result is that you can comfortably use light mode in
           | total dark room without any issues.
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | A difficulty is that the appropriate screen brightness varies
           | with the content it's displaying. Going from a low-contrast
           | dark site to a white background is especially jarring.
        
             | jltsiren wrote:
             | Or from text and diagrams (which often contain large
             | single-color areas) to photos and videos. The default HN
             | color scheme looks much brighter than the bright daylight
             | photo I currently have as a desktop background.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | Nah some of us need dark mode 24x7 and actually benefit from it
         | even in broad daylight. Not fair to make this assertion and
         | assume everyone is like you.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | On my system, the dark reader plugin also has an option to
         | force a light theme.
         | 
         | Actually, the browser has the ability to set a default
         | background and foreground anyway, so this extension would be
         | unnecessary if websites would behave properly and respect these
         | defaults unless they really need to. We live in an unfortunate
         | world where a "actually respect my preferences" extension is
         | necessary, but since it is necessary, it should be noted that
         | it covers both options. Overall the situation is pretty stupid
         | but hey at least we've got workarounds, right?
        
         | accelbred wrote:
         | All the dark mode extensions I've used also would work for
         | making pages light mode.
         | 
         | For me, I have trouble focusing when reading light mode
         | content, but dark mode is perfectly fine (light backgrounds
         | seem not still, as if there is movement, and this effect
         | lessens the darker the background is.
        
         | bhauer wrote:
         | > _Light mode might be annoying to read in no-light
         | environments, but dark mode is nigh impossible to read in high-
         | light environments._
         | 
         | Backlit screens are difficult to read in high-light
         | environments regardless of whether you're reading black text on
         | white or white text on black. I use white-on-black ("dark
         | mode") on my e-ink Kindle to read outside all the time. And the
         | same is true on our Daylight computer. White-on-black remains
         | my preference in high-light environments.
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | Are you confusing the brightness setting on the display with
         | "dark" and "light" mode? Because I always have the brightness
         | on my monitors at max when the lights are on. I practically
         | never change it.
         | 
         | As a software developer, who codes about 15 hours a day (day
         | job and personal projects), I ditched "light mode" many years
         | ago as it's too harsh on my eyes to be staring at a bright
         | white screen that many hours a day. Dark mode is far easier to
         | look at for long periods of time.
         | 
         | I have no trouble reading code in dark mode in a well lit room.
         | If it were difficult to read, it wouldn't last 15 minutes for
         | my needs. I don't code in "D4rK M0D3" in the dark, I'm not a
         | l337 H4CK3r.
         | 
         | >Ever try to read a dark mode UI on your phone on a bright
         | summer's day?
         | 
         | Phone in direct sunlight is one thing. That isn't the way most
         | people use devices, that's a more rare use case than sitting at
         | a desk 8 hours a day staring at a bright screen. There are also
         | high-contrast modes for eyesight challenged people, which can
         | be used effectively in bright sunlight too, but I'm not going
         | to code that way for hours a day if I don't really need to.
         | Phones and other devices also have adaptive brightness, so if
         | you are in a dark room the phone's display brightness is going
         | to be dimmer automatically, and I'm not really sure you know
         | the difference between "dark mode" and "brightness turned
         | down". So using a phone screen and high contrast required for
         | using screens in direct bright sunlight is a poor example to
         | support your argument. Maybe you also need to qualify all of
         | your arguments with "on a mobile device in bright sunlight",
         | because that isn't the main use case for "dark mode".
        
         | walthamstow wrote:
         | I agree broadly but in London it starts to get dark about 3pm
         | at the moment. In the winter, dark mode is a lifesaver.
        
         | hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
         | I like Pure Black mode because the black pixels actually turn
         | off on my screens, making it much more pleasant to look at.
         | Even in broad daylight! I wish Pure Black mode was an option
         | separate from Dark and Light mode, like it is on some Android
         | apps. For now I get by by minimizing brightness in Dark Reader,
         | but it is a bit clunky.
        
         | bobmcnamara wrote:
         | Default, unconfigurable dark mode has been around much longer.
        
         | CrimsonRain wrote:
         | > most of the time that's not really a healthy situation to be
         | in
         | 
         | Please explain.
        
         | cosmic_cheese wrote:
         | I use dark mode during the day in rooms with lots of natural
         | light spilling in because that's what's felt better to me ever
         | since we collectively decided that light themes need to use
         | stark white and very light grays instead of the mid-grays
         | dappled with mid-colors that used to be popular. Dark mode is a
         | bandaid for the needlessly bright themes that became the norm
         | with the advent of flat design.
        
         | tunared wrote:
         | As someone that had cataracts, light mode was very hard to
         | read. It was like looking directly into high beams. I used a
         | dark reader plugins that was alright, but was not the same as a
         | site designed to support dark mode.
        
         | jltsiren wrote:
         | In my experience, high contrast dark mode is readable in high-
         | light environments, but it causes the issue the images in the
         | article show.
         | 
         | Beyond that, I have no preferences between light and dark modes
         | on laptop screens and smaller. But I prefer having at least
         | some dark elements visible on large screens, because floaters
         | can be distracting against large bright surfaces. Usually it's
         | a terminal window with the traditional light gray on black
         | color scheme, but I tend to use dark mode in IDEs and other
         | full-screen apps.
        
         | wruza wrote:
         | I use dark mode in a (moderately) lit room, because it makes me
         | focus better. Even colorschemes can affect my state of mind and
         | make it work differently. I'm not even talking about
         | effectiveness here, just comfort, although they correlate. I
         | can't _just_ choose light mode.
         | 
         | When screen is too dark (sunlight, etc), I make it brighter.
         | Requires >=400 nit or whatever that unit is for an average day.
        
         | cwbriscoe wrote:
         | I never knew about the Dark Reader plugin. I just installed it
         | and it makes HN, Slashdot and other sites much more readable
         | for me. Thanks!
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Also; because system mode happens to be dark, doesn't mean that
       | the users would like dark mode by default. Every dark mode is not
       | equal, and I'd like to start with light mode if possible.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I don't really see how a website could make a better choice
         | than to respect the current theme by default. It should be
         | changeable, though.
        
         | Zak wrote:
         | Firefox has a setting for this, defaulting to the device theme.
        
       | HellsMaddy wrote:
       | Thanks for posting this, it's an interesting perspective that I
       | hadn't considered before. Ideally, sites would respect user
       | preferences such as prefers-color-scheme and prefers-reduced-
       | motion. And, in fact, I just checked MDN and see there is
       | prefers-contrast:
       | 
       | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/pref...
        
       | Sleaker wrote:
       | Your light mode privilege is showing but seriously, maybe instead
       | of writing an article with a tone about everything that's wrong
       | with a preference you have you could instead. do what every dark
       | mode user has done and like you said.. just override the css. And
       | then write an article with a tone about how you accomplished it.
       | This just feels like complaining for the sake of complaining.
        
       | drpixie wrote:
       | Seems like a fashion thing, but the Linux distribs I've recently
       | checked out all defaulted to a dark mode. Fine for night but a
       | pain to read normally :(
        
       | bbstats wrote:
       | ...what is wrong with this person's eyes
        
         | nabbed wrote:
         | I don't know, but I have the exact same issue. White text on a
         | black background actually hurts my eyes after a paragraph of
         | reading, and then when I look away I see those grey bands
         | across my vision for the next 20 seconds. As soon as I land on
         | such a page, I either immediately back out or, if it's a
         | subject I really want to read, I go to Safari and turn on
         | reader mode.
        
         | 867-5309 wrote:
         | exactly. perhaps a case of their eyes and screen refresh rate
         | being incompatible. something smells undiagnosed. whatever it
         | may be, definitely a PEBCAK issue
        
       | jemmyw wrote:
       | Well hang on a sec. If a website is dark with light text and has
       | just that one style, then that's it's theme, it's vibe. Dark mode
       | only exists if there is a light mode, and give versa.
       | 
       | Don't force having to maintain two modes on websites who don't
       | want to?
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | That's exactly what the article says, right at the beginning
         | 
         | > If dark mode is a characteristic of your brand, please ensure
         | you choose a comfortable contrast ratio for the text.
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | If the contrast or brightness is too high, adjust your monitor.
       | 
       | Too many leave theirs at eye-searingly bright and then complain.
        
       | enriquto wrote:
       | Graybeard opinion: most sites shouldn't deal _at all_ with
       | colors. Just write plain html [0] and let your users choose.
       | Default browser styles are not only stylish, they are also
       | accessible and responsive by default.
       | 
       | [0] https://motherfuckingwebsite.com/
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | Not just light vs. dark. I wish web sites would respect my
       | system's preferences in general. If my OS theme is purple Comic
       | Sans text on top of a yellow brick wall background, then my
       | browser should respect that. I want to read text using the full
       | width of the browser rather than a tiny 5 inch column down the
       | middle of it, I shouldn't have to perform wizardry in the browser
       | settings, conjure up some overriding CSS, or install extensions
       | to do this. The browser should just say "tough shit, web
       | developer, the user's preference wins."
       | 
       | Browsers have handed over way too much control to developers to
       | ignore what the user wants. So much for being a "user agent."
       | Browsers are more like the developer's agent.
        
         | robertclaus wrote:
         | Do desktop apps or anything else really respect this?
        
           | Borealid wrote:
           | Desktop apps using a UI toolkit like qt, gtk, wpf, etc do by
           | default.
           | 
           | The developer needs to do additional work to un-standardize
           | their application.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Yes, and too many applications go out of their way to
             | ignore user preferences on desktop, too! It's a major
             | problem IMO. The user should be in charge of their
             | computer.
        
         | worble wrote:
         | Well, there's not much you can do about yellow background, but
         | forcing Comic Sans is as easy as setting it as your preferred
         | font and then deselecting "Allow pages to choose their own
         | fonts", at least in the Firefox settings page.
         | 
         | This is what I do and it makes browsing the web so much better.
        
       | kiririn wrote:
       | Please don't force low contrast ratios on users. Not everyone is
       | calibrated to >100 nits and viewing your content in a bright but
       | sensible ambient environment
       | 
       | The recommended grey-on-grey may be unreadably low in contrast
       | when viewed on, for example, 0 brightness in a pitch black room,
       | or in direct sunlight
       | 
       | The full SDR colour range is there to be used, this isn't HDR
       | where you need to limit things to not blind your users
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | If the contrast ratio is a problem for your eyes, just turn down
       | the contrast on your screen.
       | 
       | I'm sure there are filters to do that on both desktop and mobile.
        
         | reddalo wrote:
         | I don't agree. I have the same problem described on the
         | article; I can't read websites with white text over a pitch
         | black background. My eyes hurt after a while. At the same time,
         | I use a dark theme on my IDE, but it feels like it's better on
         | my eyes for some reason.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | That's because the dark theme of your IDE also uses lower
           | contrast. Which makes it hard to read for other parts of the
           | population, even if they otherwise like dark mode. Contrast
           | should be a user setting.
           | 
           | I'm dating myself, but this was all so easy with CRT
           | monitors, which had a simple analog contrast dial, and
           | everyone just set it to their preferred level.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | There is a web API to figure out if the user is in dark mode. use
       | it.                   @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) {
       | CSS Rules here...         }
        
       | hk1337 wrote:
       | Simplest thing is to have light and dark mode themes, use
       | whatever the user has set for their system settings, and also
       | have a toggle to switch between light and dark. You may like dark
       | mode for most things you browse but then would prefer something
       | in light mode.
        
         | gwd wrote:
         | The problem with this is that you now have 2x the UX testing to
         | make sure everything is useable and looks aesthetically
         | pleasing. Probably OK for a large website, but as a solo
         | entrepreneur, that ends up adding a lot of overhead.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Funny because i find the blog's example of "readable text"
       | extremely hard to read. Because of the low contrast.
       | 
       | What kind of eye condition or monitor does he have?
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | If I had to guess, he has an extremely expensive HDR monitor
         | aimed at designers and uses the full color gamut for
         | everything.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | For some reason, dark mode sites seem to come with monospaced
       | fonts, usually Courier.
       | 
       | I suspect that the next thing will be HaloLite 2.0, where a ring
       | of light appears around the screen.[1] There are TV
       | backlights.[2] Backlights that follow the screen color.[3] There
       | is at least one phone with backlights.[4]
       | 
       | Does anybody like that stuff?
       | 
       | [1] https://movingimage.org/collection/artifact-halolighttv/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.inspiredled.com/product/universal-backlight-
       | kits...
       | 
       | [3] https://www.theverge.com/22566408/govee-immersion-
       | ambilight-...
       | 
       | [4] https://www.phonearena.com/news/Nothing-Phone-1-What-do-
       | the-...
        
       | brine wrote:
       | Instead of writing this shortsighted article, just do like those
       | of us who are forced to endure light mode, and install Dark
       | Reader(https://darkreader.org) that also does light mode.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | > pure white text on a pitch black background can strain my eyes
       | and be very difficult to read. [...] However, light gray text on
       | a dark gray background is easy on my eyes.
       | 
       | For me it's the opposite, I need maximum contrast. It's a pity we
       | can't just have default text color on default background color,
       | and everyone can adjust their browser to their preferred colors.
       | While there is reader mode and plugins that try their best, they
       | don't work consistently, because HTML and CSS is such a mess.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | I've never quite seen a stupid trend in web design take off like
       | dark mode did. Maybe because it's just the ultimate perfect bike
       | shed; something so completely inane and pointless, yet
       | superficially dramatic, that it can be given entire meetings and
       | dev cycles and treated like something important, when it's just 3
       | lines of CSS. It has become the very first thing anyone requests
       | in a new application, and I have now seen countless entire
       | sprints deficated to implementing it in different more
       | complicated ways every time in each new app. Really bizarre.
        
       | carrotcarrot wrote:
       | Dark mode is such a dumb trend and I'm waiting patiently for it
       | to die. It's not easier on the eyes unless you're in a dark room
       | with no windows.
        
         | dgeiser13 wrote:
         | It's not a trend.
        
           | pclmulqdq wrote:
           | If anything, light mode is the trend.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | As long as were asking: Don't set color, typeface, font size,
       | link color, visited link color, margins, spacing, line height,
       | etc. either
        
       | mooreds wrote:
       | I hate darkmode. Fight me.
        
       | mukunda_johnson wrote:
       | I prefer light mode for most things, but use dark mode anyway to
       | save battery on an OLED Screen :)
        
       | dgeiser13 wrote:
       | It's interesting how they don't want forced dark mode yet they
       | have no problem with forced light mode.
        
       | seanwilson wrote:
       | > Upcoming WCAG 3.0 adds a new exploratory requirement for
       | "Maximum text contrast" and I hope the working committee will
       | address the issue of high contrast text in dark mode and provide
       | suitable recommendations.
       | 
       | APCA is a proposed replacement contrast calculation that was in
       | discussions for WCAG 3 that mentions a maximum contrast value to
       | avoid eye strain like this (https://www.myndex.com/APCA/, I'm
       | getting SSL errors right now though).
       | 
       | I wrote an accessible palette creator tool where you can switch
       | between WCAG 2 and APCA contrast checking to see how they compare
       | (go to "... > Flip to dark/light palette" to explore a dark mode
       | palette):
       | 
       | https://www.inclusivecolors.com/
       | 
       | Along with not having a maximum recommended contrast, WCAG 2 is
       | also meant to be really inaccurate at measuring dark mode
       | contrast, where it'll say colors contrast well when they don't.
       | APCA is meant to fix both these problems.
        
       | euamotubaina wrote:
       | Just created an account to say that I have that same eye
       | condition and indeed, looking at content with high contrast
       | ratios (mostly with whitish typography against dark backgrounds)
       | gets REALLY uncomfortable after a couple minutes.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | It's worse than that please don't force dark mode even if my
       | system has dark mode enabled.
       | 
       | I don't want the primary background color of my computer to be
       | dark as I'm browsing the web but I want only the periphery
       | control items like the browser address bar, etc. to be dark.
       | 
       | I have the Dark Reader extension to dim white backgrounds only at
       | night.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | At least some browsers have a setting to report a different
         | preference to websites than the system setting. That really
         | belongs on the user-agent level.
        
       | chaosprint wrote:
       | the real problem is that I use a Eink display sometimes but many
       | websites are disasters on it, e.g. HN.. I have to use
       | https://hn.svelte.dev/ instead.
       | 
       | pls at least provide a switch...
        
       | jvillasante wrote:
       | The only reason I have started to use `eww` in Emacs to "read the
       | web" is because people pushing those amounts of dark on
       | everybody, it has become unbearable!
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | Dark mode was a mistake. Early LCDs were dim so everyone cranked
       | up the whites to make up for it. Now LCDs have caught up and it
       | burns a significant number of peoples eyes, so we increasingly
       | have to support two modes. Apples comically ugly dark mode icons
       | shows how hard this is to do well.
       | 
       | I think the ideal thing to do would be to move back to greys as
       | the base color for computer interfaces, like we had when bright
       | CRTs were the norm. This has the added advantage of allowing
       | depth affordances in UI elements, which we should also bring
       | back.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | CRTs also had easily adjustable brightness and contrast dials,
         | so everyone could always quickly adjust to their preferred
         | setting for black on white or vice versa.
        
         | eikenberry wrote:
         | Isn't "greys as the base color" what dark mode is for the most
         | part? Light mode is generally off-white and dark mode is grey
         | scaled.
        
           | recursivedoubts wrote:
           | No. You can't do drop shadows in most dark-mode setups, there
           | isn't enough contrast to make it work.
           | 
           | OS9:
           | 
           | https://external-
           | content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
           | 
           | Windows NT:
           | 
           | https://external-
           | content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
           | 
           | BEOS:
           | 
           | http://toastytech.com/guis/b5pebaqua.png
        
       | jrockway wrote:
       | Dark Reader turns dark mode sites light, if you want.
       | 
       | You can control the contrast ratio on dark mode websites with the
       | "brightness" control on your monitor. It changes the emissivity
       | of the pixels. Turning it down keeps black the same color and
       | makes whites blacker. Monitors typically ship with the white
       | level way too high for any real work (it looks good in the
       | computer store though), and so you should probably always be
       | turning this down.
        
       | rishikeshs wrote:
       | But what if I have only dark mode?
        
       | SOTGO wrote:
       | I'm glad this article included an example of what happens to
       | their eyes when they read text in dark mode. I get the same
       | afterimages and it's incredibly disorienting when it happens and
       | dark mode makes it way worse than normal. As an aside, does
       | anyone know if that effect has a name?
        
         | oliviergg wrote:
         | Yes, I am glad to see this post, because I had the sentiment to
         | be alone with this 'symptom'. Can bear dark mode, give me
         | disorientation and nausea' I wasn't able to explain this to my
         | ophthalmologist.
        
       | carlosjobim wrote:
       | The solution - as always - when it comes to problems with
       | usability is to set your browser to open all websites in Reader
       | view by default. Then every website will always be presented in
       | the way you prefer.
        
       | nighthawk454 wrote:
       | Contrast ratios don't go away in light mode. The contrast ratio
       | of black-on-white is the same as white-on-black.
       | 
       | Curious then what is the real driver of these issues? If
       | accessibility teaches us anything, it's that there's certainly no
       | one size fits all. But it's gonna be hard to update the standards
       | or make plugins/tweaks successfully unless we get at the root of
       | it.
        
       | 1000100_1000101 wrote:
       | Dark mode was the traditional normal.
       | 
       | From early green or amber text on black mono displays. Grey on
       | black DOS text mode. Light Blue on Dark Blue C-64. Apple 2's
       | grey/white (I don't recall) on black. Even GUI wise, Amiga used a
       | dark-blue background as the default Workbench, with user
       | selectable palettes for everything.
       | 
       | It was Microsoft Windows that changed the paradigm to default to
       | a searing white display with black text in most apps, like
       | Notepad, Word, etc., because "it's more like paper". Sure, paper
       | is white, but it's not glowing white. That transition was
       | painful.
       | 
       | I'm glad to see dark-modes return, I agree there needs to be an
       | option, not just forced dark-mode. Preferably light mode options
       | to use a not-as-bright-as-possible white too.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Wasn't it the original Mac that changed it?
        
       | thdhhghgbhy wrote:
       | I'm more extreme, I dislike all dark mode, including code. Shreds
       | my eyes, no idea why. Have tried a zillion themes, just can't be
       | one of the cool kids.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Wasn't the idea that it is more energy-friendly?
       | 
       | (In which case, please also stop all ads)
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-19 23:00 UTC)