[HN Gopher] Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report
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Second-Hand Bookshops in Britain: 2024 Report
Author : fogus
Score : 84 points
Date : 2025-01-15 15:50 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (wormwoodiana.blogspot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (wormwoodiana.blogspot.com)
| jdietrich wrote:
| The proliferation of charity and community bookshops is
| substantially the product of tax policy. Commercial property is
| taxed at ~50% of the nominal rental value, but charities are
| substantially or wholly exempt from this tax. Importantly, this
| tax is owed regardless of whether the property is occupied; for a
| commercial landlord, it is therefore preferable to lease a unit
| to a charity at a peppercorn rent if the unit is expected to
| remain vacant for some time. This has had a profound effect on
| the makeup of retail tenants, particularly in small towns with
| high vacancy rates, which some argue amounts to a harmful market
| distortion.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| can you elucidate on if this was un- or intended consequence,
| and "harmful market distortion"?
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| Yes, perhaps there's an argument that having charity shops is
| better for the area overall than having too many vacant shop
| fronts. But if that's the case, why not cut business rates for
| all, rather than for this arbitrary group?
| RobotToaster wrote:
| I don't see how encouraging charities can be seen as harmful?
|
| It would be good if it was extended to organisations like CIC
| however.
| globular-toast wrote:
| Too many charity shops is the sign of a "dead" high street in
| the UK. It's odd when you think about it because each charity
| shop is literally unique and you would think worth travelling
| for, as opposed to the chains that sell the same stuff
| everywhere. But that's just the way it is. There's a kind of
| snowball effect caused by too many charity shops that has
| been noted for decades.
| IshKebab wrote:
| It's unfair competition. Also nobody wants a high street
| filled with endless charity shops and poundlands.
| RobotToaster wrote:
| > It's unfair competition.
|
| It's a charity, how is giving them an advantage over chains
| that put their profits into the pockets of billionaires a
| bad thing?
| graemep wrote:
| Secondhand bookshops are not usually owned by
| billionaires. Neither are the things charity shops sell
| in general.
|
| There is a loss to customers because instead of
| knowledgeable owners, charity shops are run by volunteers
| of varying quality.
|
| I know of one case (through a volunteer at a charity
| shop) in which someone threw out a book of 19th century
| prints because they "threw out all the old rubbish". That
| would not happen in a commercial shop. I think its less
| likely to happen now that there are charity bookshops
| that tend to take the more valuable books, but I would
| not say it never happens.
|
| Most importantly, the ability to avoid paying rates
| reduces the incentive to let the shops out, reducing
| supply and raising rents. IN many cases owners would
| rather have empty premises than let at lower rents and
| removing a cost of doing so makes this more attractive.
| The higher rents this causes that give chains such a big
| advantage over the small businesses they have largely
| replaced.
| CJefferson wrote:
| The problem is in many small towns in the UK (like mine)
| the charity shops outnumbed the non-charity shops, and
| oftent he competitions isn't billionaires, it is locals
| who would like to start a coffee shop (for example), but
| can't compete against "multinational" charity shops.
| CalRobert wrote:
| A lot of these shops are basically just big closets full
| of some hoarders' junk. It's marginally better than an
| empty storefront, but not by much.
|
| Funny enough an acquaintance used to volunteer at one and
| his main income (aside from the dole) was finding the
| good stuff, taking it, and selling it on ebay (he was
| delighted when someone's old school Game Boy with
| original pokemon cartridges came in one day...).
| jdietrich wrote:
| It probably isn't good for the economy that large proportion
| of retailers are charity shops with very thin margins,
| despite the fact that they're being subsidised in terms of
| business rates and receive most of their stock and a lot of
| their labour for free. A charity shop is better than a vacant
| unit, but it generates very little value, even for the
| charity.
|
| Local authorities want to see more diverse and vibrant high
| streets, but they're economically reliant on charity shops -
| local government collects and spends business rates, but
| central government funds the rates relief that charity shops
| receive. They simply can't afford to offer rate relief to
| other tenants who might use that space to build a more
| valuable business, because the tax system has distorted
| everyone's incentives.
|
| In many towns, charity shops are visibly crowding out other
| kinds of retail. The relief for charities props up landlords
| and local authorities, taking away the urgency to reform the
| system and take steps towards a more sustainable future for
| declining high streets.
|
| The new government are finally talking about fundamentally
| reforming the business rates system, but it's happening at
| least a decade later than it should have done.
|
| https://www.cbi.org.uk/articles/the-path-to-business-
| rates-r...
| jimnotgym wrote:
| There is some rate relief for small businesses, but
| everything you wrote is still true and happening.
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| You clearly know what you are talking about, but I don't
| think you're representing the situation fairly. There are
| all kind of ways in which businesses may be exempt or
| partly relieved of commercial property rates. The
| particularly important one is the the 'small business rate
| relief', which exempts businesses whose property has a
| rateable value of less than PS15,000 - that's basically
| _all_ high street shops outside of London.
|
| If by 'other kinds of retail' you mean retail chains or
| department stores, then yes, the current tax regime causes
| them to be disadvantaged. But almost every kind of local
| high street company (including cafes, jewellers,
| newsagents, toy shops, and yes, even second-hand bookshops)
| is helped considerably by these tax breaks - it's not just
| charity shops.
|
| There are lots of reasons why high street businesses and
| retail in general are struggling, but I'm confident that
| business rates aren't one of them.
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| Independent retailers are squeezed out by charity ahops at
| the bottom end, and nataional supermarket/coffeeshop/etc
| chains at the top end. Result is bland identical high
| streets.
| nobodywillobsrv wrote:
| Discouraging business is bad. Obviously Britain is not doing
| well if you see many towns
| cafard wrote:
| The group Turning the Page operates pop-up Carpe Librum stores
| in space provided by the owners of commercial properties in
| Washington, DC. In some cases, a building is scheduled for
| demolition and replacement--the store at 17th between K and L
| NW had an unusually long run.
|
| Periodically the commercial real estate market sags, and it is
| some years before it picks up again. An owner can be caught
| between the end of the leases and the rebuilding. In these
| cases, a charity bookshop is probably not a bad tenant. It is
| unlikely to disturb neighboring properties with noise or
| litter. It will probably not start a fire, as squatters have
| inadvertently done in a vacant block downtown.
|
| And I really don't think that in a large city this is unlikely
| to distort the market. I haven't counted the vacant storefronts
| within five blocks either way of the current Carpe Librum at
| 14th and I NW, but there are quite a few.
| kristianp wrote:
| In my country (Australia), charity shops have only a poor book
| selection and there are no charity book shops. 2nd hand book
| shops are for profit, although I doubt the profit is very
| large.
|
| Charity shops benefit the shoppers and the donators, who
| benefit from how easy it is to get rid of their stuff, compared
| to the alternatives that are time consuming or difficult.
| bruce511 wrote:
| To be honest, I prefer charity shops to professional shops for
| 2nd hand books.
|
| That said, I still visit professional shops rather more than I
| should (it depends on the shop.)
|
| Of course charity shops are cheaper, that's part of the appeal,
| but I have more success in them because they are less discerning.
|
| Over the years I've acquired a LOT of books, so now I tend to
| limit myself more. Mostly I now collect science fiction, with an
| emphasis on work pre 1970. These were made cheap, and are usually
| in "poor" condition now.
|
| Professional shops won't shelve them, whereas charity shops will,
| so I have more success there.
| AntoniusBlock wrote:
| This is going to sound bad but another upside to charity shops
| is that often they misprice their books, so you can get some
| real bargains.
| bruce511 wrote:
| I'm not sure 'miss priced' is necessarily the case- I think
| they're priced to move, and obviously there's no cost-of-
| sales, so its a volume game.
|
| Of course one can find truly valuable stuff, not just books,
| but I never have...
| pessimizer wrote:
| All mispriced even means here is that it would still move
| at a much higher price. If the goal was just to make sure
| everything moves, you could price it all at zero.
| globular-toast wrote:
| I've had a lot more luck with science fiction in professional
| shops than in charity shops. In the latter I tend to find only
| mainstream fiction and non-fiction. It's exceedingly rare to
| find any sci-fi at all. I wish I knew one where people brought
| it in.
|
| One thing I enjoy is when people get rid of their computer
| science textbooks. They are sometimes older editions, but can
| be had for less than 10% of the original price. It's rare,
| though, so just have to keep going and take the opportunity
| when it arises.
| stoneman24 wrote:
| I think there are 2 factors which affect my success in
| finding books in charity shops.
|
| what books are sold: I would like to understand the
| proportion of books sold by genre. Shops have a very high
| proportion of thrillers and crime novels.
|
| likelihood of donation: Perhaps some fans are more likely to
| keep books than others. In my donations, thriller & crime
| books are donated first, I keep my SF.
|
| This leads to a low chance of success in finding science
| fiction paperback for me. I guess SF (myself included) are
| just hoarders.....
| jeffwass wrote:
| Just curious what sorts of older books you find in the best
| condition.
|
| Ie, even when buying a new book today I'd rather pay $1 or $2
| more in price on good paper that won't turn yellow in a few
| years, but it seems most publishers aim for the lowest common
| denominator on shitty paper.
|
| I've had some general luck with hardbacks being more robust but
| it's not always the case.
|
| Just seeing if you had thoughts on book types or publishing
| houses with the best paper that has lasted over the years.
| bruce511 wrote:
| Nothing specific. Most everything printed that I have since
| circa 1980s is fine. I expect looking after them matters more
| than paper quality.
|
| Thats mostly paperback novels.
|
| Stuff that was printed cheap in the 30s and 40s (ie "pulp"
| fiction) is taking strain now - which is to be expected.
|
| Books I got as a child seem yo be I fine condition, despite a
| lot of rough handling at my hands, and my kids hands.
| jonathanoliver wrote:
| A.Z. Fell has a decent bookshop but when I called recently they
| said: "Fell's Bookshop. We probably don't have what you're
| looking for and we wouldn't sell it to you if we did."
| onion2k wrote:
| It sounds like a real life Black Books.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| It's about as real.
| dcminter wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Omens
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| Well that was more positive than I had expected from the title.
|
| It also mentioned, at the end, the trend I'd noticed for schools,
| supermarkets and others to have places to trade second hand books
| for free.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Also the trend for free book exchanges in disused phone boxes!
| My local village has a working phone box, presumably because
| mobile phone service is lacklustre! It has still become a
| community book exchange despite being live!. I'm reading one of
| their books right now actually! One of the classic orange
| Penguin editions of 'Carry On, Jeeves' by P.G. Wodehouse!
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