[HN Gopher] Higher potassium intake at dinner linked to fewer sl...
___________________________________________________________________
Higher potassium intake at dinner linked to fewer sleep
disturbances - study
Author : hilux
Score : 241 points
Date : 2025-01-17 19:17 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nutraingredients-asia.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nutraingredients-asia.com)
| Etheryte wrote:
| I wouldn't read too much into the title, the closing parts of the
| article give a much more balanced take on the whole issue. This
| study disagrees with some previous work and it's unclear which
| result makes sense and why. As usual, more research is needed,
| and while a catchy title is nice, this isn't anything to change
| your dietary habits by,
| grues-dinner wrote:
| > this isn't anything to change your dietary habits by
|
| But I already have k-intake.io registered, have hired a CTO for
| a potassium monitor wearable, app and data pipeline and am
| working on my pitch deck!
| matthewdgreen wrote:
| You may joke, but these folks have been
| promoting/investigating an all-potato diet, and have
| determine that maybe potassium is what's causing weight loss.
| https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2024/03/20/second-potato-
| riffs...
| Etheryte wrote:
| On one hand, if I squint hard enough, I can almost see it,
| but not exactly for the reasons they propose. Potatoes are
| infamous for having an extremely high satiety index, that
| is, you feel very full after eating them. If that holds, it
| would be easy to see how it could lead to weight loss,
| since you would feel full earlier and thus eat less.
|
| All that aside, almost all of the results they show are
| deep within statistical error bounds. My weight easily
| varies 5lbs (2kg) within a week, saying you lost that
| amount after a month of diet doesn't really say much to me.
| I could weigh myself a week from now and say I lost that,
| then one week on and say I regained it.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| choices = [ 1/4 tsp of potassium bicarbonate
| powder in 8 oz of water, 200 mg L-theanine,
| 30 minutes of a podcast,
|
| ]
|
| while choices and not sleep: choice =
| choices.pop(0) take_choice(choice) wait(25
| * 60)
| Beijinger wrote:
| Could you elaborate this?
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| You will remove the last listed "choice" from the list and
| "take" it (presumably one "takes" a podcast by watching it).
| After taking each choice, you will wait for 25 minutes,
| during which time you are expected to fall asleep. If you do
| not fall asleep in those 25 minutes you will repeat this
| process with the now-current last item in the list. If the
| list is exhausted and you are still awake, you and the
| program terminate.
| Beijinger wrote:
| But what is the underlying science for these substances?
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| I dunno, I was just interpreting their pseudo-code.
| mgraczyk wrote:
| Strangely the original study misstates the direction of the main
| finding, contradicting itself directly.
|
| Is this a typo, or something more nefarious?
|
| From the abstract: Multiple regression analyses
| revealed that individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily
| potassium intake
|
| From the body of the paper (supported by the results):
| Multiple regression analysis indicated that individuals with a
| higher potassium intake had lower AIS scores.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| That is true. From section 2.6 of the full-text:
|
| > The sleep disturbances were assessed using the Athens
| Insomnia Scale [ 19], a self-administered psychometric
| questionnaire designed to evaluate sleep disorders,
| particularly insomnia [ 20 ]. It consists of eight items rated
| on a Likert scale ranging from 0 "no problem at all" to 3 "very
| severe" [ 20]. The total score ranges from 0 (absence of any
| sleep-related problems) to 24 (the most severe degree of
| insomnia). Severity is classified as normal for scores of 3 or
| less, subclinical insomnia for scores of greater than 3 but
| less than 6, and clinical insomnia for scores of 6 or more
| [19,21,22].
| rolandog wrote:
| The contradiction is more clear when comparing the abstract:
|
| > [...] Results: Multiple regression analyses revealed that
| individuals with higher AIS scores had higher daily potassium
| intake; potassium at dinner was especially crucial. [...]
|
| and section 3.2:
|
| > 3.2. Association Between AIS Score and Dietary Patterns of
| Sodium and Potassium > Multiple regression analysis was
| conducted to investigate the association between AIS scores
| and dietary patterns of sodium and potassium intake (Table
| 3). Total daily potassium intake was inversely associated
| with log AIS score (b = -0.036; p = 0.034). When intake at
| each meal (breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks) was analyzed
| separately, only potassium intake at dinner remained
| significantly associated with AIS score (b = -0.066; p =
| 0.003), suggesting that higher potassium intake at dinner may
| be linked to fewer sleep disturbances. No significant
| associations were observed for the sodium-to-potassium ratio.
| magicalhippo wrote:
| One thing thata tired or rushed scientist trip up and
| writes the wrong sentence, but surely[1] a reviewer should
| catch such a grave mistake?
|
| I mean it's a very short paper, and the main findings are
| repeated, so not like it's buried.
|
| [1]: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7944958/
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| I'd trust table 3 and the general sentiment of the paper?
| desktopninja wrote:
| Learnt from my grandmother to eat plenty bananas before bedtime.
| It helped with my asthma and swear too that it did wonders for my
| sleep.
|
| Usually had it with a hot curry at dinner time or dessert (sliced
| bananas, cubed apples and evaparoted milk.)
| ortusdux wrote:
| I knew a guy that would eat a banana per beer. He would portion
| the bananas out beforehand, so we could tell he was serious
| when he showed up to a stag-do with two bunches!
| airstrike wrote:
| Anecdotally, I always had much better sleep and mornings
| every time I remembered to eat a banana (or two!) before
| going to bed after a night of heavy drinking...
| throw03172019 wrote:
| Oh man that's a lot of bloat! Beer + sugar
| username135 wrote:
| That is so many bananas
| desktopninja wrote:
| i don't drink anymore but if offered i'd down without
| hesitation a wells banana bread beer or banana beer. tasty
| stuff
| TriangleEdge wrote:
| Bananas aren't high in potassium. That's a myth. A banana has
| 450mg and a potato has 650mg.
| rainclouds wrote:
| Sadly I don't think French fries have the same effect.
| gweinberg wrote:
| Potassium is a chemical element, frying it won't change the
| potassium level.
| pertymcpert wrote:
| I don't know about the case of potassium specifically,
| but in general I thought that the bioavailability of
| elements can vary with different types of cooking?
| serf wrote:
| you can most definitely change the levels of components
| in a fried food.
|
| the oil gets 'dirty' from extended use in frying. Why is
| it dirty? It's not dirt, and it's not oil breakdown (in
| most cases).
|
| The oil is drawing components from the food into itself.
|
| Forget the frying for a second; most fries are parboiled
| or blanched -- this also leeches material away from the
| vegetable, this time it leaves with the water used for
| blanching.
|
| A french fry is delicious, but it's different than a
| potato -- even if it's made from one.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Why would something being an element mean that heating it
| as part of a food wouldn't act as a catalyst for some
| chemical interaction?
| echoangle wrote:
| There would still be potassium in there, unless it's
| pulled out by the frying oil.
|
| Elements can't get lost in a chemical reaction. You can
| only change the molecule they're part of, so it might not
| be processable by the human body, but the potassium isn't
| going to disappear.
| jaapz wrote:
| It's not going to dissappear, but it could dissolve into
| the cooking oil, leaving less in the finished product.
| This happens with boiling as well.
|
| The fact that the element cannot physically vanish into
| thin air is not really relevant here
| echoangle wrote:
| It is relevant because I replied to this:
|
| > Why would something being an element mean that heating
| it as part of a food wouldn't act as a catalyst for some
| chemical interaction?
|
| It sounds like the person thinks that chemical reactions
| can make elements change/disappear, which is not the
| case. And I specifically mentioned the Oil removing the
| potassium as an option.
| hilux wrote:
| I guess that depends how hot you fry it.
| rbanffy wrote:
| How hot would it need to be do fission a stable isotope
| of Potassium?
| nick__m wrote:
| A temperature so hot that the atoms of the potato would
| violently collide into each other, probably at least tens
| of millions of degrees and you would need something to
| confine the potato plasma!
| OJFord wrote:
| > confine the potato plasma
|
| And once that's done, _The Sims_ has almost loaded.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Maybe it's fusion and potassium content increases?
| Aurornis wrote:
| Bananas have a decent amount of potassium per serving. A lot
| more than many foods. That's not a myth.
|
| The only myth is that bananas are a unique source of
| potassium. A lot of foods have similar or more amounts of
| potassium per serving or by weight.
| yabatopia wrote:
| Fair enough, but I still prefer the banana. Just a little bit
| tastier than a raw potato.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| Adding to that bananas are high in sugar. _12 to 15 grams
| each_
| etrautmann wrote:
| Potatoes have almost double the glycemic index of a banana,
| meaning that the impact on metabolism and insulin
| production is greater and faster.
| hollerith wrote:
| True, but just because fructose has a low GI doesn't make
| it good for you.
| SlightlyLeftPad wrote:
| If it helps you sleep, a banana isn't going to kill you.
| If it doesn't help you sleep, then don't eat a banana,
| that's also okay.
| nelup20 wrote:
| Afaik if you cool the potatoes down to get resistant
| starch, the GI should be similar to a banana
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Zuckerberg isn't rich. That's a myth. He had $200B and Elon
| has $450B.
| dingdingdang wrote:
| Eloquent truth pointer right there! ;)
| spokaneplumb wrote:
| Two bananas to a potato (I assume we're talking something
| like a russet, not a little red potato?) sounds generous to
| the potato, if we're talking volume equivalence.
|
| A potato's a meal. A banana's a lightish snack.
| worthless-trash wrote:
| I've only ever been able to finish raw banana. I've tried
| raw potato but it was almost gag worthy.
| lostlogin wrote:
| The gagging reminds me, there aren't many things that
| beat the smell of a rotting potato.
| slifin wrote:
| Per 100g ground beef is 300+mg of potassium
|
| No carbs, no sugars, no fiber induced bloating, could
| easily get more than 100g into a meal
|
| My understanding is potassium also competes with salt in
| the body
| adrianN wrote:
| How much does that potato weigh? The size of potatoes varies
| quite a bit
| tomcam wrote:
| Come to think of it, you're right. It was when he showed up
| with a big ol' bag full of potatoes that we knew it was gonna
| be a serious party.
| SquibblesRedux wrote:
| Can one simply stick to vodka, skip the potatoes, and reap
| all the benefits?
| markdown wrote:
| What do you get out of evaporated milk that you can't get from
| milk?
| username135 wrote:
| Its either sweeter or creamier. I always get evaporated and
| condensed mixed up.
| mmikeff wrote:
| I've mixed them up too and that was the worst Mac and
| Cheese I ever made!
| lostlogin wrote:
| I once had mac and cheese where the usually-excellent
| cook mixed up the cheese sauce with the dessert custard.
|
| The surprising bit is how far you can get into a meal
| that looks right before you realise it really is not.
| OJFord wrote:
| Condensed milk is evaporated milk + added sugar.
|
| I sometimes buy evaporated because it is a big time-saver,
| but never sweetened condensed because it's quick and easy
| to add sugar myself, and leaves me in control of how much
| relative to the other ingredients.
|
| Both are thicker, creamier, and even sweeter than milk -
| because even without the added sugar the natural sweetness
| of the milk is concentrated by the reduction, removing all
| that water.
| desktopninja wrote:
| tbh, really never look into it but according to my taste buds
| it pairs better than regular milk.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| ...plenty? That's at least more than 2 for me. Can you eat 3+
| bananas in one sitting? Are we talking really small, average or
| big bananas?
| rbanffy wrote:
| What it won't help with is mosquitos. They LOVE banana-flavored
| people.
|
| Learned it from first hand experience.
| desktopninja wrote:
| I believe this too! My brother is not a fan bananas and
| barely registers mosquito bites. Me on the other hand am
| pursued mercilessly. Could also be we have different blood
| types but the immediate evidence we've seen is bananas :)
| numpad0 wrote:
| IIUC, Na is used like signaling medium in body and alkaline
| metals that isn't Na tends to reduce blood pressure, slow
| heartbeat and neural activity. With that in mind, it sounds
| reasonable that those tendency could lead to slightly deeper
| sleep. Or is there something else to it?
| lazyeye wrote:
| I haven't heard of potassium before.
| FullGarden_S wrote:
| I take potassium capsules frequently and magnesium capsules
| whenever I smoke, which is occasionally. Both of them were
| effective and help me with reducing anxiety and relieving
| stress.
| Beijinger wrote:
| Po in the periodic system. At least for Americans -\\_(tsu)_/-
| x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
| I sure hope you aren't consuming Po. It's usually only
| consumed by targets of Russian assassination.
| Earw0rm wrote:
| A teaspoonful of Po in your tea, and all your problems with
| insomnia will be solved forever.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Well there goes my hopes of marketing potooooo ooo with a
| horse logo. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42729604
| Gravey wrote:
| K.
| x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
| It's often called Kalium internationally. The atomic symbol is
| Ka.
| beng-nl wrote:
| Um actually it's K.
|
| (After the um actually quiz show)
| x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
| You are right. I was half thinking of natium, Na.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| My main problem is waking up too early. Any silver bullet for
| that?
| toenail wrote:
| Go to bed later?
| notfed wrote:
| Move west...
| etrautmann wrote:
| Edibles can sometimes be effective
| NiekvdMaas wrote:
| I had the same issue. Taking magnesium citrate 30 mins before
| bed fixed this completely. See also:
| https://examine.com/supplements/magnesium/
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| Preventing light from reaching your eyes in the morning either
| via sleeping mask or good blinds + making sure there are no
| electric lights visible. In other words: sleeping in total
| darkness until you want to wake up.
| snvzz wrote:
| Fast.
|
| If anything, increase the number of hours without eating before
| bed.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| For me, I'd have to get rid of my dog.
| natebc wrote:
| Which, at least for me would be a massive decline in quality
| of life.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Collagen hydrolysate (12 g) helps me sleep longer.
| viburnum wrote:
| Going to bed a lot earlier. Some people just can't sleep past a
| certain time no matter what.
| shreezus wrote:
| I know this isn't related to potassium directly, but anecdotally
| I have had success using magnesium supplements for
| insomnia/improving general sleep quality. I have also been
| consuming electrolyte mixes containing potassium to help with
| muscle recovery from training, and have found them to help with
| physical soreness & general well-being.
| declan_roberts wrote:
| My wife convinced me to take a bath with magnesium once when I
| was stressed.
|
| Afterwards I got up, went to bed, and slept like an absolute
| rock.
| noman-land wrote:
| Do you know what it actually does and how it does it?
| cbg0 wrote:
| If you took a bath in hot water, that has its own effects on
| the body, as it will lower your blood pressure, it can also
| relax your muscles, so you need to try it out without the
| magnesium to see if it did anything.
| echoangle wrote:
| That doesn't tell you a lot. You would have to take a bath
| with and without magnesium, and without knowing whether it's
| with or without magnesium, and then write down the effect for
| each bath.
|
| Currently, it could just be the effect of the bath itself or
| placebo.
| SquibblesRedux wrote:
| An interesting paper on transdermal magnesium:
|
| Myth or Reality--Transdermal Magnesium?
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5579607/
|
| The short story -- As of 2017 the jury is still out as to
| whether something like an Epsom salt bath may be beneficial
| because of the magnesium.
| ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
| What form of magnesium? It might mean something.
|
| - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4397399
|
| - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycine
|
| - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_glycinate
|
| ---
|
| Mg also acts on GABAergic/genic systems directly, but its
| benefits as a general supplement on sleep are disputed.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| Have you tried calcium glycinate next?
| vixen99 wrote:
| Depends what you mean by 'general supplement' but a majority
| of people are deficient in magnesium (~400 mg/d is the
| recommendation) and its ubiquitous involvement in hundreds of
| enzyme systems might reasonably indicate that a positive role
| in normal sleep patterns could be expected as reported in a
| number of publications. If there is no benefit then other
| factors are likely to be to the fore.
| iamacyborg wrote:
| Magnesium supplements are also really easy to overdo and the
| results are quite explosive.
| bell-cot wrote:
| The dose makes the poison. So use a mortar and pestle, or
| liquid supplements and an eyedropper.
| AbstractH24 wrote:
| Can you elaborate?
| lazide wrote:
| Magnesium is a common laxative in high doses.
| [https://www.drugs.com/mtm/milk-of-
| magnesia.html#:~:text=Milk....]
| totallykvothe wrote:
| Magnesium Citrate and Oxide specifically.
|
| Magnesium Glycinate is much less likely to be a problem
| in this way
| Nemi wrote:
| I also take magnesium for sleep. I swear by it.
|
| I also believe I have an underlying kidney disorder that was
| causing all sorts of subtle problems and after researching for
| years decided to try potassium supplements and it relieved the
| acute symptoms I was having (daytime sleepiness after meals)
| and also a whole slew of symptoms I didn't realize I was having
| (poor workout performance and recovery, constant thirst from
| sodium/potassium imbalance, heart palpitations, especially at
| night when lying in bed, temperature regulation when trying to
| sleep, restless legs at night, and sleep quality).
|
| Sleep was the most surprising. I used to wake at around 3am and
| just couldn't get back to sleep. I still wake up to pee, but I
| get right back to sleep.
|
| The single most surprising thing is the quality of my sleep. I
| now sleep like a rock. So unbelievably hard. And when I wake I
| feel so rested and more clear headed. I don't need to sleep as
| many hours anymore and feel better than when i would sleep 9
| hours.
|
| Recently several sleep studies started talking about how sleep
| is not a passive activity, but a 'washing' of CSF over your
| brain. I could get some details wrong since I am going off of
| memory, but I believe the amount of CSF movement and production
| basically triples when you sleep. I hypothesize that this is
| simply your bodies way of cleaning the waste products out of
| your brain. Do you know what precursors are to create CSF?
| Electrolytes like sodium, potassium, chloride, and bicarbonate.
| It is my hypothesis that I was 'using up' all the potassium
| available with the first couple of sleep cycles and once it was
| gone I was unable to effectively create more CSF, rendering my
| sleep ineffective.
|
| All I need to take is a couple of 99mg tablets right before bed
| (along with some magnesium chloride) and I sleep like I did
| when I was 10. I am 57. To say it has transformed my life would
| be an understatement.
| 867-5309 wrote:
| Cerebrospinal Fluid
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Thanks for sharing- I find that these type of anecdotes often
| do work for other people, and are not information people can
| get from a doctor. I'm going to try what you suggest myself-
| I also tend to wake up at night and not fall back asleep,
| with no obvious explanation.
| mmorse1217 wrote:
| I have every single one of your symptoms and arrived at
| almost the same conclusion: taking electrolytes tablets
| intended for workout recovery (just sodium, magnesium and
| potassium, no sugar) improves alleviates almost all of my
| symptoms and gives me energy I haven't had since I was 12. I
| haven't been able to get a doctor to take me seriously for
| ten years. I will try the potassium + magnesium tablets at
| night instead of a generic multivitamin. Thank you so much
| for your comment.
|
| Do you have any additional information about this
| relationship between CSF and electrolyte deficiency? Do you
| know anything about possible upstream causes of electrolyte
| deficiency? Any pointers would be super helpful.
| Nemi wrote:
| I also started with general "electrolytes" but found that
| one of my problems was that I was getting way too much
| sodium and not enough potassium. This was the primary
| driver of my post-meal somnolence. Most general electrolyte
| supplements are primarily sodium, and this was exacerbating
| my symptoms in some cases. I now only eat meals that have a
| reasonable amount of sodium and then take a couple of
| potassium tablets a couple of hours after eating if I feel
| myself starting to get a little sleepy. 30 minutes later I
| am 'back to normal', whereas I used to be sleepy for
| several hours as my body tried to bring my electrolytes
| back into balance. I also would have massive unquenchable
| thirst during this that I now don't have.
|
| I have read no studies that link CSF production with
| electrolyte deficiencies. This is a hypothesis of my own
| with no backing, so take it for what it is worth. Having
| said that, there have been many posts on HN on the recent
| studies on CSF
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39723704. I made the
| connection with CSF production and electrolytes when I was
| reading more about CSF production and it jumped off the
| page at me that potassium and other electrolytes are used
| to create CSF. It all just came together for me why taking
| potassium has helped me so much.
| mlloyd wrote:
| >I also would have massive unquenchable thirst during
| this that I now don't have.
|
| Have you been checked for diabetes? The thirst is one of
| the bigger symptoms.
| Nemi wrote:
| Sorry, you asked about 'possible upstream causes of
| electrolyte deficiency'.
|
| In my case I believe it is caused by an undiagnosed kidney
| problem loosely called 'salt-wasting syndrome'. There are
| many types, but they all revolve around a genetic disorder
| where the tubules in your kidneys that are responsible for
| removing different electrolytes from the urine and
| retaining them are malformed and are not able to keep the
| electrolytes like a normal kidney does. Here are a few I
| found in my research:
|
| -Bartters Syndrome- https://rarediseases.org/rare-
| diseases/bartters-syndrome/
|
| Many different variants, so this is a possibility. Type 5?
|
| -------------------------
|
| -Gitelman syndrome-
| https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/8547/gitelman-
| syn... Symptoms include tingling of face
|
| ----------------
|
| Fanconi Syndrome https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/kidney-
| and-urinary-tract-d...
|
| I my particular case, I believe I have a type that does not
| impact sodium, but does potassium. When I eat a high sodium
| meal it causes me to pee a lot to try to get the my sodium
| levels back to normal. However, my body can't retain
| potassium when it does this (and since I was eating much
| more sodium and much less potassium than my body required)
| I end up with normal sodium levels but low potassium
| levels. Taking potassium a few hours after a meal "fixed"
| this.
|
| Short of genetic issue like this I am not sure what could
| cause it. I think this can be an early symptom of Diabetes,
| but don't know much about that. What I am talking about
| here has got to be rare, so it may not be applicable to
| you.
|
| Just another anecdote - when reading some of these links it
| made me remember another interesting symptom I used to have
| that I did not know was related: I would get "facial
| numbness". Specifically, my lips and the immediate
| surrounding area would feel slightly numb. Usually in the
| morning after a poor night of sleep. I would remember
| feeling this on the way to work in the car. It would
| contribute to that dazed feeling I felt like I would
| swimming through a mental fog.
|
| Oh, and one more! I also don't get nearly so hung over from
| drinking! This was a surprise for me. I have always drank a
| lot of water while drinking alcohol, but I would always
| have the worst drained feeling the next day with such a
| headache. The headache would last all day. However, if I
| now take some potassium while drinking and throughout the
| night (depending on how much I drink), I often don't have
| much of a hangover. This amazes me! I am 57 and used to
| drink a lot when I was in my 20's. I had some friends that
| could be normal the next day and it always blew my mind.
| Now I think I know why. They have normal kidneys!
| mancerayder wrote:
| Which formulation of magnesium? And how long (days/weeks) of
| supplementation before you noticed a difference? Does it
| 'wear off' once you stop?
| joe_guy wrote:
| Not OP but I've had luck with zinc and magnesium aspartate
| supplements commonly available on Amazon. I take two caps
| that each are a net about 500mg an hour before bed, along
| with 1mg of melatonin.
|
| Been doing this for a lot of years now.
| hgomersall wrote:
| You need to be a bit careful with zinc. A doctor friend
| of mine compiled a load of data showing most zinc
| supplements are contaminated with cadmium, which is
| cumulative. I'm not sure if he's published yet.
|
| Edit, here's a paper by some other researchers: https://w
| ww.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0963748012005760...
| tredre3 wrote:
| Not OP but the magnesium formulation recommended for sleep
| is usually magnesium glycinate or biglycinate, not the more
| common oxide or citrate.
|
| https://www.sleepfoundation.org/magnesium
|
| https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/magnesium-
| types#9-Magne...
| specialist wrote:
| Magnesium supplements also help me sleep better.
|
| I experience muscle cramps. (Not restless leg syndrome. It's
| complicated.)
|
| For others, be aware that magnesium supplements come in many
| forms. I don't tolerate magnesium citrate, the most common over
| the counter option. Tummy issues. After trying a handful of
| options, I chose magnesium glycine; no adverse effects and
| reasonable price.
|
| This is not medical advice. YMMV. Consult your doctors.
| supriyo-biswas wrote:
| Link to the study itself: https://doi.org/10.3390/nu17010148
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| The real shocking information I gained from this paper is that
| the AIS goes from 0-24 (0 = perfect sleep, 24 = total insomnia)
| and the study participants had an amazing average AIS score of
| 4.3 (SD 3.3)! Wow, how well all those people must sleep!
|
| As someone scoring 12, it's pretty bad and I am suffering a lot
| while trying to sleep and during day time because I did not sleep
| well.
|
| If my understanding of statistics, standard deviations and the
| standardized partial regression coefficient are correct,
| potassium supplementation in the evening only DECREASES this
| score by about 0.2178 (Beta -0.066, multiplied with SD of 3.3),
| which is kinda worthless.
|
| Please correct me if I am wrong.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| It decreases the score. It doesn't increase the score. An
| increase would be harmful. The beta is negative. The abstract
| is wrong.
|
| It is not worthless. For good sleep, potassium levels have to
| be adequate. Once one improves the level, one can move on to
| other factors.
|
| As for what works for me, avoiding caffeine after 12 pm helps,
| as does sunlight exposure in the daytime.
|
| With regard to a supplement stack, these help: collagen
| hydrolysate 12g, magnesium citrate, calcium, B6 as P5P,
| melatonin 4 mg, L-theanine 100-200 mg, and various sleep
| promoting herbs.
|
| Ensure your BP is optimal, well below 120/80 for most people
| under 70.
|
| Uncorrected acid reflux too worsens sleep, but avoiding
| consumption in the last three hours and also famotidine help.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| > It decreases the score.
|
| Yes DECREASE instead of INCREASE. What I was going for in my
| head was "improve" I guess. Thanks for pointing that out.
|
| > B6 as P5P
|
| Don't forget it's one of the few nutrients that accumulates
| and that you can get too much of. It causes nerve damage and
| mystery sores.
|
| > melatonin 4 mg
|
| That's probably too much:
|
| https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/E4cKD9iTWHaE7f3AJ/melatonin-.
| ..
| OutOfHere wrote:
| The P5P form harms less if in excess. This is in contrast
| to the default form which is pyridoxine. I have found 20 mg
| of P5P twice daily to be quite useful for keeping stress
| spikes in check.
|
| Regarding melatonin, newer data up to 2024 in
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38888087/ confirms that 4
| mg is an optimal dose for sleep. For a discussion, search
| for this article on r/FoodNerds.
| mkl wrote:
| Just scored 14. May have a bit of a problem.
|
| https://toolonline.net/en/AIS,
| https://www.med.upenn.edu/cbti/assets/user-content/documents...
| ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
| There are plenty of studies exploring this that don't come from
| weird websites.
|
| A recent one:
|
| - https://jcsm.aasm.org/doi/10.5664/jcsm.10168
|
| Many, many more
| OutOfHere wrote:
| What exactly is it that makes the website you linked not weird,
| and the original website weird?
| haffi112 wrote:
| The original website is a news report of an article. The one
| he posted is from a peer-reviewed journal which has a much
| higher standard of reporting. The information there is
| reported by scientists with expertise in the field. You
| cannot expect the same level of rigour from journalists that
| try to sensationalise findings to get more clicks.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| News articles have a valid purpose of popularizing journal
| articles for the vast majority of people who will feel lost
| looking at a journal article directly.
|
| A news article should be compared to another news article,
| not to a journal article. A journal article can however be
| compared with another journal article.
|
| I understand that the journal article you linked might be
| superior.
| semking wrote:
| I strongly recommend watching this video on the effect of
| potassium on cardiovascular disease (like stroke)!
|
| Re-Balancing One Essential Nutrient to Protect against Stroke:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liW9F6gLwgQ
| eth0up wrote:
| I have a bottle of potassium based salt substitute that I use to
| supplement K. Can anyone here clarify the pros/cons of this? It's
| quite wretched by itself, but if used very sparingly is not bad
| with many foods.
|
| As I'm sure all know, K in supplemental form is FDA regulated and
| one would need to take up to 1/2 a bottle to reach the RDA,
| whereas in salt sub form a single, unpleasant serving can get
| close to the RDA. I think it's in chloride form...
|
| Edit: fsckin android keypad
| elric wrote:
| PSA: before you start supplementing potassium (or gorging on
| bananans or potatoes), please be aware that too moch potassium
| can lead to heart rhythm disturbances, and that some common
| medications (like anti-hypertensives) can have further predispose
| you to developing hyperkalemia.
| Nemi wrote:
| While true, this is overblown. RDA for potassium intake is
| 3500-5000mg daily for an adult male. Most people do not get
| close to this amount. Potassium supplements are 99mg per pill.
| You have to take a lot of pills to reach that level. Getting
| too much potassium by eating potassium-rich foods would be
| difficult without an underlying kidney disorder.
|
| Having said that, don't be a dumb-a* and take too much of a
| good thing.
| davidanekstein wrote:
| It depends on how you take it. If you chug almost liter of
| coconut water (like I did) you can get palpitations (like I
| did). That has >500mg potassium in a form more bioavailable
| than say a banana or butternut squash.
|
| Also the RDA is not something you should have all at once.
| That's a sure way to disrupt your heart.
| sfn42 wrote:
| I've experienced palpitations after having Indian food,
| could coconut milk cause that?
| manmal wrote:
| A medium sized potato has that amount, I doubt it'd be
| the coconut milk to blame. Also, coconut water != coconut
| milk
| pkaye wrote:
| Its common after eating certain kinds of foods.
|
| https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/22416-hear
| t-p...
| kmoser wrote:
| A liter of coconut water also contains quite a bit of
| sugar, which might have contributed to your palpitations.
| lostlogin wrote:
| Point out the radiation dose from bananas to the fad dieter,
| see what that does.
|
| For what it's worth, it's actually nothing.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose
| aantix wrote:
| Hyperkalemia is most commonly encountered in patients with
| decreased kidney function.
| pards wrote:
| Site fails to scroll with ublock in my browser/adguard on my
| network.
| randerson wrote:
| What isn't mentioned is that bananas and other potassium-rich
| foods are alkaline, and so can neutralize stomach acid reflux.
| Acid reflux is a common source of poor sleep quality. So that
| could be one explanation for the fewer sleep disturbances.
| rendaw wrote:
| Bananas have a pH of around 4.5 for unripe bananas to 6 for
| ripe bananas, so are acidic.
| randerson wrote:
| Huh. I am admittedly neither a doctor nor chemist, but I was
| told this by a doctor, and anecdotally bananas seem to help
| me with reflux. Looking on the web, there does seem to be
| conflicting advice.
| seunosewa wrote:
| They are high in fibre and can thicken the fluid in the
| stomach. Maybe that's how they help.
| rendaw wrote:
| I'd heard claims like that before and I was curious so I
| googled a bit more.
|
| It sounds like there's this thing "PRAL" or "potential
| renal acid load"
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_renal_acid_load
| where the affect on stomach acid can be different from a
| food's pH. But again, the wikipedia article links to some
| random people's blogs and a single research article from
| 2019. I'm not sure if this is well supported by research.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Exactly- this is based on how it alters urine pH, and
| there is a whole alternative medicine thing around
| assuming this is extremely important- but the entire idea
| seems unconvincing to me. Both stomach and blood pH are
| carefully regulated by feedback control and don't
| themselves change much based on foods.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| It is extreemly important because it is easy to measure
| and varies wildly based on concious decisions: things
| that make it easier to sell the snake oil. Blood pressure
| is another. Many a "tonic" of flavored alcohol seemingly
| cured symptoms of high blood pressure... long enough to
| make the sale.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I can see why the directly observable effect could help
| here, but what are these "alkaline diet" people selling
| exactly? I've mostly seen it just from individuals giving
| me unsolicited health advice. Also are these people
| really measuring the pH of their urine?
| saomcomrad56 wrote:
| It depends. There are varieties of bananas & plantains that
| are high in latex, and can cause reflux and allergies for
| some people.
| thinkcontext wrote:
| I assume 99% of the bananas consumed in the US are
| Cavendish.
| davzie wrote:
| Reflux is solved by MORE acidity or promotion of stomach acid.
| Lower stomach acid PH means the LES doesn't close properly.
| Seems counter intuitive but took me 8 years of symptoms to
| discover.
| nosefurhairdo wrote:
| I think this is true for a long term solution, but the
| standard treatment to alleviate symptoms of reflux is to
| consume antacids, so I think parent's point is still valid.
| mircea wrote:
| > Lower stomach acid PH means the LES doesn't close properly
|
| I don't think that's correct. Lower stomach acid pH makes the
| LES close more tightly, with a max around pH==3.
| bbstats wrote:
| So proton pump inhibitors don't work? Nah
| phaedrus wrote:
| Not every case of reflux is caused by the same things. Some
| people's esophageal sphincter (such as mine does) just...
| decides to let go at random times. For me, that I can tell,
| the frequency of that happening isn't really affected +/- by
| the PH of my stomach acid, but the PH sure has an effect on
| the consequences.
|
| I am assuming the best thing I can do for it is lose weight,
| but that's easier said than done.
| amelius wrote:
| Look into vitamin K2.
| malfist wrote:
| If you've tried the traditional diet and exercise and
| couldn't stick to it, don't let the stigma around glp-1s
| keep you from taking to your doctor about them. They are a
| powerful tool. Really helped me
| QuantumGood wrote:
| So hard to teach this to people, even those who've moved past
| basic understanding. I keep acid/digestive pills near the
| bedroom in case I have problems with a late meal
| readyplayernull wrote:
| If reflux is the issue follow these tips:
|
| 1) Don't drink while eating or exercising, drink 30min before
| or 2 hours later.
|
| 2) Don't lay on your belly while sitting, use your back to
| support your upper body.
|
| 3) Drink just as much water as your body asks, but not more.
|
| 4) Right before going to bed, don't drink and try using the
| bathroom.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| How about digestive bitters?
| portaouflop wrote:
| Alcohol is bad in general no matter the ailment
| bean-weevil wrote:
| I'm having trouble understanding point 2. What does it mean
| for one to lay on their belly while sitting? That doesn't
| seem possible.
| ubercore wrote:
| Slouching forward, crunching up your stomach and resting
| your weight on it.
|
| In other words, good posture.
| mircea wrote:
| Acid reflux is due to too low stomach acid (too high pH). The
| lower esophageal sphincter closing as a response to acid (pH)
| is documented in the literature.
| swsieber wrote:
| Whenever I see discussions of GERD I like to bring up this
| paper (and the reedit discussion around it) where they
| basically tried a supplement with every likely helper and it
| worked 100% of the time:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/GERD/comments/adt6vh/regression_of_...
|
| | The aim of this study was to investigate if a dietary
| supplementation containing: melatonin, l-tryptophan, vitamin
| B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, methionine and betaine would help
| patients with GERD,
|
| | All patients of the group A (100%) reported a complete
| regression of symptoms after 40 days of treatment. On the other
| hand, 115 subjects (65.7%) of the omeprazole reported
| regression of symptoms in the same period
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| Are there any studies on these studies? There are so many of them
| --and they're issued multiple times of day on television "news"--
| that there has to be one.
| f1shy wrote:
| I systematically flag "diet" studies here. (And most medicine
| related, specially if not the study itself, but a random
| article with yellow title)
|
| Some dietary studies are little better, some worse, but even
| the best, are very weak.
|
| It's known (from other studies, yes the irony) that people have
| no idea what they eat. Forget, don't pay attention... so is
| difficult to draw conclusions. Also diet habits correlate to so
| many other habits, that is difficult to know what helps and
| what doesn't.
|
| Often is posted just a journalist view of it, not even the
| study (like this case) that is another red flag. Means that the
| article title is probably not so interesting.
|
| Last but not least, being a forum of mainly CS nerds, you have
| to really weed through the comments. When speaking about law
| many start with "not a lawyer but" but seldom I see "not a
| doctor, but". I've just seen too often people very opinionated
| about medicine topics of which they have no idea. Luckily is
| relatively easy to detect, but can be very misleading. The less
| the people know about something, the more sure they are they
| know it all. I need to state the obvious: never ever take
| medical advice at face value from HN.
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