[HN Gopher] Trapped in the dark for 35 hours - Red Sea dive-boat...
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Trapped in the dark for 35 hours - Red Sea dive-boat survivors tell
of escapes
Author : nradov
Score : 72 points
Date : 2025-01-15 05:35 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| interroboink wrote:
| Reminds me of this older story, of Harrison Okene, who was
| trapped in a capsized boat at the bottom of the ocean for 3 days:
| https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/sep/26/i-survi...
|
| video of his rescue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um1ym9u8XaA
|
| Randomly, the next year, he rescued his friend when their car
| goes off a bridge into water. He later became a diver!
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| Or a mini Poseidon Adventure
| triyambakam wrote:
| Thank you for sharing about Okene, what a great story.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| How could 3 adults, even lying perfectly still, not use up all
| the oxygen in that air pocket within 35 hours?
|
| I thought human beings needed several cubic meters of fresh
| oxygen (at 1 atm) per hour...
| _hyn3 wrote:
| Not at 1atm. The air was pressurized.
| nwellinghoff wrote:
| How is that? It was at surface pressure and then rolled over.
| K0balt wrote:
| If the booyancy of the trapped air was a significant factor
| in the boat not sinking, then the air would have been at
| pressures over 1atm.
|
| Put a barometer in an empty, upside-down cup. Force the
| upside down cup 1/2 way down into the water, trapping the
| air inside.
|
| The barometer will be at the sea pressure of the bottom of
| the cup.
| russell_h wrote:
| It doesn't sound to me like the boat actually sank. In the
| article it mentioned that they heard the rescue helicopter
| from within. Wouldn't that imply that the pressure inside
| would be one atmosphere? Am I thinking about the physics of
| this wrong?
| duskwuff wrote:
| Sound does carry remarkably well through water - but you're
| right. The ship capsized, but the hull held enough air that
| it stayed afloat.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| It was floating upside down.
|
| There is a picture towards the end of the story.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| Mostly, the weight of the boat pulling down would compress
| the air bubble a bit, probably not very much though.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| The pressure of any trapped gas will be equivalent to the
| depth of the lowest level containing air - so if the bottom
| of your air bubble is a meter below sea level, your
| pressure will be 1.1 atm.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| You got me wondering and I thought maybe there was some kind of
| gas diffusion where carbon dioxide is absorbed by the ocean
| water instead of building up in the enclosed space, and finding
| the most closely related stack exchange question I think I'm
| satisfied with this answer:
|
| _probably that four-foot bubble communicated with a larger
| volume or air under the hull of the boat - and that 's the most
| reasonable explanation of this miraculous survival._
|
| When picturing it we might assume the rest of the boat is
| flooded and this pocket of air is all that remained but that
| may not be the case.
|
| https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/67970/surviving-...
| gunian wrote:
| Mr Nimbus gave them gills to save them and wiped their memory
| :)
| sellmesoap wrote:
| Mr nimbus also controls the police!
| relistan wrote:
| They were in the engine room. The engine would have both air
| intake and exhaust systems. There was potentially some
| portion of one or both systems interacting with other air
| pockets.
| Aerroon wrote:
| It might be enough. Google says a human needs 300-550 liters of
| oxygen a day. That equals to about 6.8-12.4 cubic meters of air
| for the 3 of them for 36 hours.
|
| The space does seem like it could be large enough to hold that
| much air, especially if it's compressed a little.
| pcrh wrote:
| In this case, the boat was floating, albeit upside down. So the
| volume of air trapped must have been sufficient to keep a 44
| metre boat afloat; i.e. not a trivial amount.
| rwmj wrote:
| If I remember it right, Mythbusters did the "sinking boat will
| pull you under" and found it was a myth?
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| they busted it with a 9 ton boat but now I'm unconvinced
| because they did demonstrate the effect with a large weight
| dropping straight down in a pool, so what effect was that?!
| They were testing Titanic myths and didn't touch on the fact
| that Titanic famously dropped like a stone!
|
| https://youtu.be/rvU_dkKdZ0U
| p_j_w wrote:
| Mythbusters is not rigorous. You'd be foolish to bet your life
| on the outcomes of any of their experiments.
| rurban wrote:
| Furniture moving to one side on the top deck sounds most
| plausible to me.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| What kind of furniture is heavy enough to cause that? It'd have
| to be tons of weight, and anything that isn't chairs and tables
| would be bolted down.
| rurban wrote:
| You see that the ship was already very top-heavy and
| unstable. 200-400kg would have been enough, with 1.5m waves
| and a stupid captain.
| throeurir wrote:
| > But Lucianna is critical of the fact the Egyptian navy had to
| rely on volunteers. "We waited 35 hours. I don't understand how
| there are no divers on the Egyptian military boats."
|
| Why should divers risk their life to save anyone?! The boat was
| unstable, going inside would be dangerous! Some people are
| adrenaline junkies, and will volunteer for such thing, but you
| can not expect professionals to do that!
| pavlov wrote:
| Is that how it works when military personnel is called to
| assist in disaster rescue?
|
| "Seems kind of dangerous. I'm a professional, I won't go there,
| let's wait for amateur volunteers to show up."
| throeurir wrote:
| They did assist. They saved many lives, but waited until it
| was safe for them! It is not their job to increase number of
| victims!
| petre wrote:
| Why would the military navy or coast guard risk their lives to
| save some tourists from a sinking boat, when they could
| professionally watch from a distance through binoculars? /s
|
| Maybe because it's part of their job drscription?
| throeurir wrote:
| No, their primary job is to protect borders!
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Is this sarcasm? I hope it's sarcasm.
| albumen wrote:
| Professional first responders risk their lives all the time to
| help others. Rescue situations are nearly always risky by their
| very nature.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| I would bet there is a gulf of difference in equipment and
| training between rich countries' first responders and
| personnel on some random navy ship in poor and curruption-
| ridden Egypt.
| throeurir wrote:
| Real life is not Paw Patrol! Watch latest interviews with
| firefighters from California!
|
| Rescuers already put themselves into dangerous situation
| (operation on stormy sea). But at some point risks are too
| great, and there is no point to pile up more bodies. Or
| demand more rescuers, to rescue original rescuers...
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _Why should divers risk their life to save anyone?_
|
| Yeah, why should anyone do anything to help anyone else unless
| it's in their self-interest!
|
| No wonder we live in such a low-trust society...
| Filligree wrote:
| Our society isn't low-trust. It may not be as high trust as
| Scandinavia, but until you've lived in a real low-trust
| society you don't know how bad it can get.
| keybored wrote:
| We? That was a Belgian asking about search and rescue in
| Egypt.
|
| Yeah go to country on a different continent and they might
| not have great search and rescue operations. Like how would
| you know.
| batch12 wrote:
| Some people are just wired differently. It's the difference
| between the person who will get out of their own car and help
| someone push theirs or the person who will intercede when
| someone is being assaulted instead of walking past. It's not
| adrenaline, it's the need to help. Luckily for others, some of
| us have this flaw.
| throeurir wrote:
| About 30% of deaths in cave diving are rescuers. This is very
| similar situation!
| wbl wrote:
| "You have to go out. You don't have to come back"- Coast Guard
| unofficial motto.
| brian-armstrong wrote:
| > Outside the boat, Sarah, Hissora and the others who had jumped
| off eventually found the two life rafts, which had deployed after
| the sinking. As they clambered on board, they saw the boat's
| captain and a number of other crew members were already there.
|
| > "There should be some supplies in here," Sarah remembers one of
| the other guests saying. All the people we spoke to recall a
| safety briefing mentioning that the life rafts had food and water
| in them - but they did not, the BBC were told.
|
| > "We found a torch, but again it didn't have any batteries. We
| didn't have any water or any food," Sarah says. "There were
| flares, but they had already been used."
|
| > Sarah also says of the three blankets on board the raft, one
| had been taken by the captain for himself, leaving one for the
| rest of the crew and another for the guests. "We ripped it up and
| huddled together," says Sarah.
|
| Absolutely disgraceful behavior from the captain here. This is
| not a person who should be entrusted with a houseplant, let alone
| the wellbeing of any number of people on board that vessel.
| jajko wrote:
| If you've ever been to that country, or any similar country,
| you would notice that real professional competence across whole
| society is scarce, and most tourism industry is just barely
| faking it in terms of security and professionalism. Or to put
| it in different words - don't do extreme sports there, safety
| net is very thin.
|
| Deadly diving accidents are common there too, mostly due to
| lack of professionalism of instructors, either locals or for
| some reason russians.
| curiousgal wrote:
| Generalize much? How many duck boat sinkings took the lives
| of tourists in the US? Were you also so keen to criticise
| American society as a whole and "similar countries"?
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Not the OP, but his generalization about North Africa is
| spot on.
|
| It is one of the few regions that regressed
| civilizationally since Antiquity. Zero advanced exports,
| lots of tyranny and dysfunction, natives vote with their
| feet by the millions, and no one in their sane mind _moves_
| there.
|
| I don't particularly care about praising the US, a country
| I have never been to, but if you are trying to put some
| sort equivalence between Egypt and the US, you are deluding
| yourself. Quality of institutions in those two places ise
| mostly incomparable.
|
| (The SF homeless situation may be an exception. Yeah, that
| could be North Africa, only with much more money burned on
| futile schemes to alleviate the problem.)
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Morocco and Tunisia don't seem terrible. But you're also
| neglecting the effect of climate change since antiquity
| on agriculture there.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| After 1948, the ancient communities of Greeks, Jews and
| Armenians were driven out of Alexandria by the new Arab
| nationalist government.
|
| Given that these were the most educated and globally
| connected people in the country, Egypt shot itself in the
| foot in a way that is probably impossible to evaluate.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| In violent agreement- unfortunately, they were identified
| with the British occupation/administration.
|
| See also:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ireland_Craig
| shellfishgene wrote:
| There are of course professional and competent people in
| Egypt, and I've worked with many. However, there is very
| stiff competition in the tourism sector, education in
| workers is low, regulations that exist are mostly only used
| to elicit bribes by officials, so all corners that can be
| cut, are.
| nmstoker wrote:
| Based on this list, it was 34 fatalities from three duck
| boat sinkings:
|
| https://www.arnolditkin.com/blog/injury/dangerous-waters-
| a-s...
|
| There were other fatalities but in different circumstances,
| mainly on land.
|
| A quick Google turns up over a thirteen hundred dead in
| sinking incidents off Egypt in the last 20 years. Looks
| like Libya can't be far behind. They're in a completely
| different league and whilst generalisations can seen
| unpalatable it does seem tied to a careless approach to
| safety (as confirmed by all the mentions of safety
| equipment failure in the various incidents)
| fwipsy wrote:
| Tangent: this article contains the claim regarding DUKWs
| on D-Day: "Only one boat made it to the beach--the rest
| sank, taking soldiers and supplies with them." From what
| I can find this seems to be highly inaccurate and while
| there were some sinkings, DUKW boats at D-Day seem to be
| generally considered to be successful. This error is
| egregious enough to call the author's overall
| trustworthiness into question for me.
| StefanBatory wrote:
| Generalization sucks but you can't say it's not true.
|
| I'm from Eastern Europe and I'll say that in many aspects
| Western society _is_ better than us, even if it 's already
| way better than after the fall of the Soviet occupation.
|
| It sucks but it is what it is.
| YZF wrote:
| I have dived in the red sea dozens of times over decades.
| There are many solid dive operations. It's probably at least
| a notch or two above the rest of (edit: Egyptian) society
| since it's a bit of a bubble that works mostly with
| foreigners. Still not up to western standards but also not as
| bad as you make it sound. It's one of the world's most
| popular diving destinations and incident rates aren't that
| high. There are many good instructors but you do have to be
| more careful.
|
| These days there are a lot of Russians due to the war with
| Ukraine I imagine some of them have found work in the dive
| industry. The last time I visited was 2 years ago and there
| were certainly a lot of Russians but I didn't dive with them.
|
| EDIT: I generally dislike Egypt, everyone smokes, an
| oppressive government. Third world. I'm not sure I'll go
| diving there again. But my experience with boat diving has
| been good, that's the only part of Egypt I like ;) I've had
| dives in Hawaii that felt less safe with instructors chasing
| people that bolt to the surface and other near misses and
| generally questionably run operations. I think the key in
| these third world countries is to chose specific operators.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| It seems not much has changed after the Red Sea Agressor dive
| boat burned down in 2020 killing one guest.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Sadly, absolutely nothing and no one in Egypt can be trusted.
| It is even worse that the former Soviet Bloc where I grew up,
| and where you always had to divide your expectations of
| competence, functionality, compliance etc. by, say, three.
| (Nowadays, two.)
|
| This story is still better than it could be - I would expect
| the life rafts to be completely unmaintained and to sink
| immediately. Perhaps they were sturdy enough to survive years
| of neglect.
|
| You can expect that the investigation will be an exercise in
| bureaucratic hush-up, too. If losing face is worse than death,
| death is the preferred outcome. Especially if it is someone
| else's death.
|
| The Red Sea is beautiful, but caveat emptor. Ironically, Saudi
| Arabia may outcompete Egypt soon when it comes to seaside
| tourism. Saudis are a lot more competent when it comes to
| providing Western levels of service, and the current prince is
| ditching Islamic limitations real fast.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| _Saudis are a lot more competent when it comes to providing
| Western levels of service, and the current prince is ditching
| Islamic limitations real fast._
|
| Only because they mostly don't do the work themselves ;)
| inglor_cz wrote:
| True, a lot is done by foreigners; but even organizing
| someone else to provide reliable service to you is a
| nontrivial competence.
|
| Plenty of rich places work like that. Already ancient
| Athens had their metoics.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| In Egypt, when you are in a position of power - for instance,
| captain, CEO, president - you aren't actually responsible for
| anything. It's more of a sinecure, where you are there to be
| honoured and pampered by your underlings.
|
| This seems to be a universal law there - any time I've done
| business there's been some lavish lunch with the CEO while he
| talks about his horses, and then negotiations with Farid from
| accounts.
|
| So... the captain in this case is just abiding by Egyptian
| customs. He is, in his and his crew's estimation, the most
| important person on the boat, and is to be protected at all
| costs.
| ty6853 wrote:
| It's quite interesting as other Islamic countries I've been
| to will guard guests with their life and will basically
| starve themselves to make sure you eat. Protection of guests
| is a pillar of the culture and religion in most the Middle
| East. If you are anywhere east of Egypt and you knock on a
| door you can pretty much bet that unless you're arrested or
| killed immediately you are absolutely safe.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Pretty big caveat on that last sentence..
| YZF wrote:
| I don't think the divers on a dive boat are considered
| guests of the captain. So yes the custom exists but it's
| very nuanced.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| _After several hours trapped in the air pocket, the dive guide,
| Youssef, wanted to try to swim through the boat, but Lucianna and
| Christophe persuaded him not to. "Stay with us because they are
| going to come to get our bodies, so they will find us," Lucianna
| recalls telling him._
|
| An odd decision, I would have thought he was a good diver, so
| presumeably also a decent free diver, knew the boat well, could
| alert rescuers to the trapped people, and would not use up oxygen
| when gone from the bubble.
| relistan wrote:
| Presumably they had no idea if the boat was on the bottom of
| the sea or not, and at what depth.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| Still, rationally thinking, which is presuming a lot in the
| situation, I can't find any real advantage to the two
| tourists of having the dive guide not try.
| MaKey wrote:
| Maybe they were just worried about his wellbeing.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| There reason she gave was "Stay with us because they are
| going to come to get our bodies" so I think they were
| beyond worrying about anyone's wellbeing :( What a
| nightmare.
| MaKey wrote:
| I read it as "They are going to come to get our bodies so
| there is a chance we'll make it out of here alive if we
| just wait".
| shellfishgene wrote:
| That makes more sense than my interpretation!
| spuz wrote:
| I would imagine they would be able to feel the movement and
| sound of the waves which would tell them they were still
| afloat.
| dev-ns8 wrote:
| Being an advanced scuba diver is absolutely no indication of
| one's ability to freedive. You Absolutly can not compare the
| two besides both taking place underwater.
|
| On top of that, even if this guide was a Divemaster which is
| far from guaranteed given the other safety failings from this
| company, being an advanced Divemaster does not equate to one's
| ability to cave dive. Survivors state the lack of lighting in
| the boat and so I'm assuming he would have had to navigate the
| boat in complete dark under water. So while not exactly cave
| diving, it's equatable. An activity that's insanely dangerous
| to anyone, even Divemasters that don't have cavern or cave
| experience.
|
| There's a reason there's a grim reaper sign at the entrance of
| caves in popular dive locations.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| The Egyptian dive guides are often pretty good freedivers,
| especially when they started out as boat boys, they often
| freedive every day to fasten ropes to the reef.
|
| Still, deciding that the guide should not try does not even
| make sense if there was only a 5% chance he'd make it, from
| the two tourists point of view.
| thoroughburro wrote:
| I wouldn't sacrifice a life just to improve my own odds.
| What cold logic you imagine of those people!
|
| Edit: ah, name checks out.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Why didn't these divers free dive out? Should have been pretty
| easy?
| jajko wrote:
| Clearly it wasn't, having diving certificate doesn't make you
| magically an Aquaman.
| relistan wrote:
| Also, presumably they did not know if the boat was on the
| bottom of the sea or not, and at what depth.
| Filligree wrote:
| Freediving inside an enclosed space is known as "angling for a
| Darwin Award".
|
| Doing it in a shipwreck is one of the most dangerous things you
| can possibly do. You won't have the normal cues of up and down,
| won't have any sort of decent lighting, and all the while your
| body wants to panic due to CO2.
|
| Then, they'd been breathing compressed air. If they reached the
| surface they'd get the bends, and depending on depth that could
| kill them or cause serious damage.
| shellfishgene wrote:
| Most SCUBA divers don't train freediving, next time at the pool
| see how far you can dive on one breath. Then imagine being
| panicked, in the dark, in a ship you don't know that well, in
| the machine room you've never been in before, where now
| everything is upside down and at an angle, filled with water
| and all kinds of stuff floating around.
| Filligree wrote:
| Do I have to? It's going to give me nightmares.
|
| Yeah, if he'd tried swimming out there'd have been one less
| survivor.
| saberience wrote:
| So I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not a
| diver or free-diver. I've done a lot of diving and a little bit
| of free-diving.
|
| I would never, not a million years, try and free-dive out of a
| boat, especially a large and unfamiliar boat that had sunk.
| It's almost certain death to try and do so.
|
| 1) No Breath: First of all, the average person can roughly hold
| their breath a minute or lets be generous and say one and a
| half minutes. Well, that's in perfect comfortable conditions in
| a nice warm, safe, room. Now you're in cold water, you're in
| shock because your boat sank, and you're in the dark, you're
| likely highly anxious or panicking, you can now hold your
| breath 30-45 seconds if doing no work at all. If you're
| actively swimming for your life you probably last for 20-30
| seconds IF THAT.
|
| 2) Getting Lost: Dive boats can be quite large, full of random
| objects, and if you've been diving on a boat for a few days
| only, there is little chance you are going to be able to
| navigate through the boat in the dark in good conditions, now
| imagine the boat is filled with water, completely dark and
| upside down. You are panicked and disoriented, if you somehow
| manage to find an exit it's almost entirely down to dumb luck.
|
| 3) Depth (and potential DCS). You have no idea what depth the
| boat has sunk to. So let's say it's at 50m, it takes a long
| time to surface from 50m and if it's already taken you 1 minute
| to get out of the boat, you're fucked again. Not to mention any
| DCS you may suffer if you've been breathing compressed air down
| at 50m for very long!
|
| Maybe there are some combination of factors which would make
| this a good idea, like, very small boat with very obvious
| exits, warm water in the tropics, shallow water and its daytime
| so there is light to see by, and you're also a champion free-
| diver and regularly do 7-9 minute breath holds. Sure in these
| cases you might just swim out.
|
| But if you're a normal person trying to swim out of a boat in
| the dark, upside-down, in unknown depths, cold water, random
| detritus floating everywhere, just stay put!
| shellfishgene wrote:
| _Depth (and potential DCS). You have no idea what depth the
| boat has sunk to. So let 's say it's at 50m, it takes a long
| time to surface from 50m and if it's already taken you 1
| minute to get out of the boat, you're fucked again. Not to
| mention any DCS you may suffer if you've been breathing
| compressed air down at 50m for very long!_
|
| If the boat is at 50 m the chances of getting rescued in time
| are probably so low that it may even make sense to try as a
| last ditch effort? If you remember to breath out on ascent.
| Hard to say...
| Filligree wrote:
| Breathing out isn't the issue. Sure, you'll rupture your
| airways if you don't, but you'll still get decompression
| sickness if you do.
|
| So even in the incredibly unlikely scenario that you reach
| the surface, you'll have nitrogen bubbles in your
| bloodstream that'll quickly kill you.
|
| Look up a dive chart; fifty meters is much too far down,
| especially if you've been there a while.
| YZF wrote:
| I don't think decompression sickness is the main concern
| here. Dive boats would usually anchor somewhere
| relatively shallow. You're probably making some decision
| reasonably quickly so you haven't absorbed that much
| nitrogen yet. If you're >50m deep you have other problems
| (like depth narcosis).
|
| Decompression sickness can kill you quickly if you get
| large bubbles in your brain or heart but that's less
| typical. Many cases of decompression sickness can be
| treated in a compression chamber within some reasonable
| amount of time after surfacing. Onset of decompression
| sickness is also often delayed by as much as 48 hours.
| keybored wrote:
| This is like hearing about two people falling off a cliff
| right after each other and dying. Then someone says: I wonder
| why the first person didn't catch on to the ledge, grab the
| other person with their other arm and pull them and
| themselves back up.
|
| It's the sort of thing that would only make sense in a movie.
| YZF wrote:
| Red sea isn't that cold though, likely something like 23
| Celsius, this was winter so it's slightly colder. In the
| summer I've dived the red sea with no wet suit and it's
| certainly not a problem to swim for some time.
|
| I've also done a lot of diving and I'm not sure if I'd try or
| not. Dive boats are not that large and if it's a liveaboard
| you'll get very familiar with the boat pretty quick. There's
| typically a main cabin area/level, stairs to the cabins, and
| that's about it. If it's that or death then I might take my
| chances. Assuming you are in an air pocket then you have time
| to regroup, plan, and also take a deep breath. Dark is
| certainly a problem and not having a mask does make for a
| complication. It also depends where I am specifically on the
| boat. If you're talking about swimming out immediately when
| you wake up in the middle of the night and find yourself
| under water - yeah, that's a tough one. It's basically what
| these guys did though, they got to this air pocket. From the
| sound of it when they woke up the boat was not completely
| flooded either.
|
| Looking at the video I agree this doesn't look like a great
| place to swim out of.
|
| You can likely tell if you're on the surface or not. You're
| going to feel the swell, waves etc.
|
| One takeaway is to have an emergency plan ready in advance.
| If you're super paranoid you can also have your mask with
| you. Some divers carry an extra compressed air bottle which
| would be handy too. Flashlight?
| saberience wrote:
| If I was in my cabin and the window was possible to swim
| out of I would probably go for it. If I was in the back of
| the boat and downstairs so I had to navigate corridors and
| stairs in the dark and upside down I would probably try and
| wait. Also, if I knew for sure I was in say 15m of water or
| perhaps 20m, I would also try and go for it, especially in
| tropical areas in the daytime. How light it is and shallow
| it is would be a huge factor for me. Disorientation is real
| so upside down boat in the dark is a huge nope.
|
| Would depend. I never do cheap liveaboards though,
| especially in the Red Sea, you get what you pay for. I've
| heard soooo many stories of sketchy liveaboards or other
| dive shops in the Red Sea area that I would always be very
| careful before picking a boat.
| Havoc wrote:
| Kinda wild that the Egyptian gov just put out a made up cause
| with zero evidence instead of saying cause unknown currently
| shellfishgene wrote:
| See this unrelated story from a few weeks back...
| https://admiralcloudberg.medium.com/masks-smoke-and-mirrors-...
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