[HN Gopher] Standard patterns in choice-based games (2015)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Standard patterns in choice-based games (2015)
        
       Author : Ariarule
       Score  : 238 points
       Date   : 2025-01-13 00:35 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (heterogenoustasks.wordpress.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (heterogenoustasks.wordpress.com)
        
       | flpm wrote:
       | This is very interesting, thanks for posting! Makes me think of
       | the big choice diagrams in Detroit: Become Human. I wonder if
       | there is any literature about this?
        
         | the__alchemist wrote:
         | I'm curious about Alpha Protocol. Probably the #1 game I've
         | played for _choices matter_.
         | 
         | Detroit is interesting, in that it includes some choices made
         | by passing or failing QTEs. They really did the "You will get
         | emotionally stomped if you screw this up!" well in that game. I
         | don't know its structure well, as I only played it once. (So
         | experience only one path.)
         | 
         | Unless you count time caves like The Stanley Parable!
        
         | photonthug wrote:
         | > I wonder if there is any literature about this?
         | 
         | Came here looking for the same.. some kind of map from the game
         | design angle more towards game theory.
         | 
         | Fun semi related tangent, I was curious to know authors
         | background, and the About page quotes Borges "garden of forking
         | paths" which jives nicely with tfa. Cataloging rather than
         | inventing is an underrated activity in math sometimes, and we
         | need to do both. Game garden taxonomy!
        
       | dejobaan wrote:
       | This is great. I've been a game dev for about 30 years, much of
       | which I've spent working with narrative design/writing teams. One
       | thing I've learned to watch out for, especially among junior
       | designers, is what the author labels the "Time Cave."
       | 
       | Narrative branching, done well, is fantastic--it gives the player
       | agency and lets them make the story their own (as it were). But
       | when you're creating the story graph, it's easy to get lost in it
       | and lavish care on one path at the exclusion of the others. You
       | can easily end up with one or two long, greatly-detailed paths,
       | and (because dev time is finine, and you need to move on to
       | writing other parts of the game) a pile of other paths that are
       | shorter and less interesting. If the player takes one of the
       | shorter ones, they end up missing out on all your coolest stuff.
       | The tools I would design for the kinds of games I created
       | specifically made it easy to create a main story trunk with side
       | paths (that rejoined the trunk), and more difficult to
       | branch/loop/etc.
       | 
       | Of course, that's not the only (or even the best) way to do
       | narrative design--Disco Elysium is a masterwork because it did
       | the branching, merching, loops, jumps, random checks, and so
       | forth, so well!
        
         | spencerflem wrote:
         | Your games rule :)
        
           | esperent wrote:
           | What game is it?
        
             | spencerflem wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejobaan_Games
             | 
             | Played so much AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! back in the
             | day, still never 5 starred everything. Holds up IMO. Their
             | other games are cool too
        
               | dejobaan wrote:
               | You are too kind; thank you!
        
         | chii wrote:
         | I think it's a mistake to try get a story-focused game to have
         | branching paths, akin to the old choose-your-own-adventure
         | books. Until LLMs can proactively create new stories for the
         | player to enjoy dynamically, i think it's always fraught with
         | peril that the player fails to get the full story (or have to
         | repeatedly play it and choose something else to try).
         | 
         | My personal preference would be to have a single, on rails
         | story, where the player don't truly have a choice. It's an
         | interactive movie.
         | 
         | Or, pick a sandbox mechanic, and let the player do what they
         | want directly, and compute the consequence (the most common
         | type being the physics system).
        
           | spencerflem wrote:
           | imo its not necessary to get the "whole" story, or replay it
           | to see every possibility
           | 
           | just seing "my" story is enough
           | 
           | interactive movie type games are great but they're a
           | different experience from choice style games which are also
           | great, (and ofc the article shows that there's many styles
           | within this too, all with a different experience)
           | 
           | I don't believe LLMs can recreate the same authored
           | experience that has a point of view. I think they'll be okay
           | at genre work soon enough though, for better or worse. But
           | thats not a type of game I'm personally interested in.
        
           | suddenlybananas wrote:
           | I completely disagree, there are plenty of branching games
           | which are extremely good and which would be severely worse if
           | they weren't branching: Disco Elysium and Baldur's Gate 3
           | come to mind.
           | 
           | We are very very far off from an AI being able to come up
           | with compelling stories that are logically coherent.
        
             | chii wrote:
             | > there are plenty of branching games which are extremely
             | good
             | 
             | i think you mean there's barely any good ones. The examples
             | you come up with are the exceptions that prove the rule.
             | Look at a game like Dishonered, where the story have _some_
             | branches, but it's half-assed imho. There's plenty more
             | games where having gone for a branching story made the game
             | more expensive, less deep, and harder to sell as a result.
        
           | lmm wrote:
           | If you're not going to have choices matter, why make the
           | story in an interactive medium at all? Branching paths
           | require a lot of compromises, but there are still things you
           | can do much better with handwritten stories than in a sandbox
           | style.
        
             | chii wrote:
             | > why make the story in an interactive medium at all?
             | 
             | have you not seen the success of the COD Modern Warfare
             | franchise? Their single player game is essentially an on-
             | rails shooter, with pivotal story points completely
             | scripted (you "press the buttons"). There's no choice,
             | there's no branching (of the story).
             | 
             | But people like to shoot, like to run around, etc. It feels
             | like they have control, and it feels like the heroics in
             | the story is their contribution.
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | I thought we were talking about a story-focused game,
               | which that is not.
        
               | mnky9800n wrote:
               | Halo is the same. It is essentially a very long hallway
               | with enemies to take care of before you can move to the
               | next hallway. Also, I recently played through the first
               | Halo again and it was still quite fun.
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | You skip through the "pivotal story points" and ignore
               | them.
        
             | zelos wrote:
             | Isn't that dismissing 90% of games? The story can exist
             | purely to give emotional context to the action of the game.
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | I meant in the context of a story-focused game, which is
               | indeed less than 10% of games in general.
        
               | zelos wrote:
               | Oh, in that case I agree then: linear story-focused games
               | feel like the developers misunderstood the concept of
               | 'game'.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | They're good too! See: the 'walking sim' genre (<3
               | beginner's guide) or interactive fiction like Turnadot
               | (once rated #49 of all time)
               | 
               | https://thebeginnersgui.de/
               | 
               | https://www.ifarchive.org/if-
               | archive/games/competition2019/T...
        
           | ChicagoDave wrote:
           | Humorously, this comment takes a giant swipe at 50 years of
           | CYOA and Interactive Fiction.
           | 
           | There are over 14,000 games listed on https://ifdb.org.
           | 
           | Perhaps you should play some of them and adjust your
           | perceptions.
        
             | trothamel wrote:
             | Also node the 52,000 visual novels at https://vndb.org/v .
        
           | arkh wrote:
           | > My personal preference would be to have a single, on rails
           | story, where the player don't truly have a choice. It's an
           | interactive movie.
           | 
           | I can't bother to play those kind of games. A movie will be
           | able to deliver its stories a lot better than a game.
           | 
           | But with choice and branching you get to appropriate the
           | protagonist(s) and some story events can be a lot more
           | impactful then. Lately I played Cyberpunk for which you have
           | some choices in most missions and the endings hit different.
           | If anyone involved in the DLC story is around: kudos to
           | everyone involved in making the "face in the crowd" ending.
           | You play some almost super heroic character and due to your
           | choices (which involve betraying and killing a lot of people)
           | you get to survive: alone and back to generic human power
           | level.
        
             | Sander_Marechal wrote:
             | > A movie will be able to deliver its stories a lot better
             | than a game.
             | 
             | I don't agree. Something like SOMA would just be a generic
             | sci-fi B-movie but it's an awesome game, even though
             | there's no real choice and is in essence just a walking
             | simulator.
        
           | 0xEF wrote:
           | I'm the opposite, apparently. I loved CYOA books as a kid
           | _because_ they could be reread, so I ended up seeking games
           | that boasted multiple endings, including  "bad" endings. When
           | playing more linear games, I appreciated them for what they
           | were, but there was a disappointment that I could not try
           | different options along the way.
           | 
           | I think both have a clear place in gaming, since different
           | gamers obviously look for different things.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | I strongly disagree. I was actively preferring those games
           | and found it fun to try out different endings.
           | 
           | > My personal preference would be to have a single, on rails
           | story, where the player don't truly have a choice. It's an
           | interactive movie.
           | 
           | I stopped to play those games. Movies are better at being
           | movies then games.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > I stopped to play those games.
             | 
             | English nit, if you mean you no longer play those kinds of
             | games, as I think you do baaed on context, you should write
             | 
             | "I stopped playing those games."
        
           | scotty79 wrote:
           | I think a good idea is to have a tree-like checkpoint-save
           | system so you can always go back to the state you were in
           | before descending down into a branch and go down another one
           | without replaying everything up to this point. It encourages
           | replays and exploring all content.
           | 
           | Papers please had something like this.
        
             | chii wrote:
             | and if i recall correctly, also Detroit: Become Human
             | 
             | It also tells you the % of people that managed to reach a
             | certain ending or branch.
        
           | seanhunter wrote:
           | There a lot of great games with branching narratives, for
           | example The Outer Wilds, Baldur's Gate 3, The Witcher 3, all
           | the FromSoft games have extremely powerful narratives with
           | multiple branches and multiple possible endings based on
           | player choice. Done well there's a lot of replayability that
           | arises from the desire to experience different paths within
           | the overall general experience, as well as the immersion that
           | comes from the player truly feeling they have agency in the
           | world in the way that an on-rails experience just cannot do.
           | For example there was one quest in the Witcher 3[1] where I
           | remember being haunted by the consequences of an extremely
           | difficult choice I had to make and wondering for days whether
           | or not I had done the right thing. I eventually replayed the
           | game and when I got to that point .... decided to make the
           | same choice. _sigh_. So I still don 't know whether I did the
           | right thing. I just couldn't bring myself to try the other
           | branch - it just wasn't right for me. One of the most
           | powerful things a game has ever done to me, and very true to
           | the complex and ambivalent moral tone of the books in my
           | opinion.
           | 
           | Done poorly, you end up with something like Fallout 4.
           | Theoretically there are choices but they don't matter that
           | much and many of the branches get little to no QA love so
           | have bugs and problems (eg when I did my playthrough of
           | fallout 4 I unwittingly managed to avoid the main choice
           | you're supposed to be forced into doing which is to choose
           | which faction to align yourself with) which had numerous
           | buggy consequences because the devs clearly had never
           | expected anyone to play in this particular way (I basically
           | did a breadth-first traversal of all the different quests but
           | put off a couple of key decisions because I couldn't make up
           | my mind. In the end this pushed me past the point where I was
           | supposed to make the choice and I ended up friends with just
           | about everyone. Except the institute. Screw those guys). Yet
           | another reason that game was so disappointing.
           | 
           | [1] The whispering hillock. If you know, you know.
        
             | Alex-Programs wrote:
             | I felt that The Outer Worlds did quite a good job, too.
             | From the devs who built Fallout New Vegas.
             | 
             | Funny little game. I find it quite charming in its
             | eccentricities.
        
             | chii wrote:
             | > Done poorly
             | 
             | yep, and i argue that most game devs wouldn't do it well
             | enough to justify it. The limited time and resources
             | available means they're almost certainly better off not
             | branching, but make one good main story and polish it.
             | 
             | Take a look at the examples you listed - they're all award
             | winning games, from developers with serious experience,
             | grit and determination to make the best game. They spent
             | ages, and lots of resources to do it.
             | 
             | Even big studios, with similar or more resources, fail at
             | making such branching good. It's a folly to think that a
             | smaller game developer with more limited resources could
             | make it better. Disco Elysium is almost an exception that
             | proves the rule (or another example is Pathologic).
        
             | atombender wrote:
             | While I enjoyed playing Fallout 4, I was really annoyed
             | with how it forced you into a specific path that lead
             | inexorably towards a very specific ending no matter, as you
             | say, what you do.
             | 
             | At the end, you have just two options: You can join the
             | institute, or make war with them. I actually really didn't
             | care about this faction and wanted to get out of that
             | storyline, but that's what the game offers you.
             | 
             | Of course many games lead you to a specific denouement,
             | which is typically one where you've defeated all the bad
             | guys and win. But those games don't make any pretenses
             | about making choices, whereas Fallout does.
             | 
             | I was really impressed with how many choices you had in
             | Baldur's Gate 3. They definitely recorded an insane amount
             | of dialogue just to cover all the possibilities. But I did
             | find myself annoyed with the ending here, too, which only
             | allows two choices at the end.
             | 
             | If there are two choices to make, it's basically the same
             | as one, because the story just stops there. I'd rather
             | games stop pretending. Don't pretend that there are so many
             | gray areas. Just let the good guys win over the bad guys.
             | 
             | An alternative approach for such a game would be to have
             | the decision tree be oriented around a kind of moral
             | compass throughout, and your deeds decide what you can do.
             | So if you keep killing or betraying people, you become more
             | evil, maybe physically deteriorating into a kind of ghoul,
             | while normal people start to fear you and refuse to barter
             | or make allegiances. But as you get more evil, you gain
             | access to eldritch abilities, make friends with monsters,
             | and so on. There may be a point where you can make amends
             | and return from evil, or vice versa, but at some point
             | there's a point of no return where the final trajectory has
             | been decided.
             | 
             | There are some games that have some something like this,
             | where you have a "reputation" among the good guys that you
             | can lose by doing misdeeds. Not sure if exactly what I
             | describe has been done, however.
        
               | seanhunter wrote:
               | That alternative approach is basically what happens in
               | Dishonoured and Dishonoured II where there is a "chaos"
               | meter which determines how much the world descends into
               | disorder based on your choices to kill people or let them
               | live. There are multiple "clean hands" options and there
               | are always ways to complete any particular mission or
               | level with clean hands. There are some elegant ways the
               | world's chaos state are revealed to the player. For
               | example in Dishonoured, the child Emily's drawings[1] are
               | more or less happy reflecting the chaos of the world.
               | 
               | [1] https://dishonored.fandom.com/wiki/Emily_Kaldwin#Emil
               | y's_Dra...
        
       | codazoda wrote:
       | This is fantastic. Does anyone have any book references that help
       | you do writing in some of these formats.
        
         | egglemonsoup wrote:
         | not sure if this perfectly addresses your question, but
         | "Designing Games" by Tynan Sylvester is a great resource
        
         | livrem wrote:
         | There is this collection of 1980's internal design documents
         | from Flying Buffalo that you can buy:
         | 
         | https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/296847/t-t-solo-desi...
         | 
         | It is old, but I do not know of any other books really on this
         | topic. I enjoyed reading it anyway. One of the documents in it
         | describes a simple manual algorithm for how to number the
         | sections in a reasonable way (just randomly assigning numbers
         | is not very reasonable, as anyone will learn from reading a
         | book where the author did that). I implemented that in a simple
         | pandoc filter:
         | 
         | https://github.com/lifelike/pangamebook
        
       | kelseyfrog wrote:
       | Reminds me of Disco Elysium Explorer[1]. Conversations 7, 8, 9,
       | and 10 are great real life examples.
       | 
       | 1. http://134.0.119.41
        
       | quotemstr wrote:
       | Nier Automata is my favorite example of the relatively rare "Loop
       | and Grow" pattern. You play through the game three times, with
       | each iteration enriching and elaborating on the story and
       | characters. Brilliant and weird narrative structure.
        
         | twic wrote:
         | Isn't Loop and Grow roughly the same as Metroidvania? Or does
         | Metroidvania not require an actual repeating loop, whereas Loop
         | and Grow does?
        
       | tunesmith wrote:
       | This is fun, and holds true in the creative writing group I run.
       | We use a website I programmed that helps us collaborate on
       | writing branching fiction. We have a mapping utility that creates
       | graphs like in the article, except more animated (d3.js, elkjs).
       | 
       | As different authors can start their own new stories, one thing I
       | often have to deal with is that they want to design their story
       | to have both long path lengths (multiple chapters before an
       | ending), and also high choice count. Those of you who know
       | something about geometric series know that this causes problems.
       | I often have to tell them they can't have everything they want,
       | which causes minor drama. :)
       | 
       | As a result, one of our stories basically shot its "choice
       | budget" in the first few chapters, leading to many linear paths
       | in the latter parts of the narratives, which is fun in its own
       | way.
       | 
       | Another of our stories has just started playing with the
       | "gauntlet pattern" as the article describes. For this one, we
       | decided that all chapters must be in the "same universe", just
       | following different characters' perspectives, and are planning
       | for certain "anchor chapters" where all characters come together
       | for a meeting. Probably the detective questioning them as a group
       | (it's a murder mystery).
       | 
       | All of our stories are supposed to be literary, so usually in
       | third person, sometimes first, never the second-person. So we
       | don't tend to use choices and chapters as directions and rooms;
       | it's all about how the plot moves. We also don't track state;
       | they're designed to be able to be printed as books people can
       | page through.
       | 
       | Overall a super-fun project for me and a handful of other
       | writers, it's been a consistent way to spend a few hours of fun
       | each week.
        
         | withinboredom wrote:
         | You can still track small state via the reader. I vaguely
         | remember a choose your own adventure as a kid:
         | 
         | If you picked up the key earlier, turn to page XX
         | 
         | Otherwise, turn to page YY
         | 
         | It was entertaining to a) suddenly realize I had missed an
         | important detail or b) allow me to "escape" if I can't find the
         | key or just don't like that part of the book.
        
           | dasfsi wrote:
           | One book I read did a similar thing, but managed to do it
           | spoiler-free. There was a magical crystal, I think, that did
           | some magical things. When you pick it up, the book says "To
           | use the crystal, look at paragraph (current paragraph + 20)"
           | and the author actually managed to do that for the most
           | paragraphs from then onwards
        
             | iainmerrick wrote:
             | An old gamebook series that did _lots_ of this is Steve
             | Jackson 's _Sorcery!_ -- I wonder if that could be what you
             | 're thinking of?
             | 
             | More recently, Jason Shiga has used clever mechanics like
             | this a lot in comic book form, notably in _Meanwhile_. He
             | 's just finished a three-part series aimed at younger
             | readers, _Adventuregame Comics_. All Shiga 's stuff is
             | great, highly recommended.
        
           | HelloNurse wrote:
           | I usually read text IF following all paths at once, with
           | heuristic combinations of breadth-first and depth-first
           | search in order to maintain the unexplored front small. Not
           | much different from drawing a map in a computer RPG.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | "Scorpion Swamp" has a map-style story layout, you are also
           | encouraged to re-create the map on paper as you explore. This
           | also means that you can get back to earlier locations where
           | enemies will either respawn or rest on the second read-
           | through.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | I remember some books that were explicit about tracking the
           | state. There was an old space adventure story I read as a kid
           | where you wrote your stats out on a piece of paper:
           | shields: 100         lasers: 100         troops: 100
           | hyperdrive: 50         days: 0
           | 
           | As you read the book it had you encounter hostile threats and
           | even roll dice and do lookups on tables at the end of the
           | book to decide what happens next. There would be places like
           | "To hyperjump over the rift you need at least 40 hyperdrive
           | points left, add 3 days and turn to page 88. To go around add
           | 7 days and turn to page 41." There were even fights against
           | enemy ships where you had to roll for both sides and do chart
           | lookups to see how many troops you lost in the boarding
           | actions and how badly the ships were damaged. You could even
           | lose a fight and end the run right there.
           | 
           | The plotline involved you racing to some planet to deliver
           | news of an impending invasion or something and if you didn't
           | get there within I think 30 or so days the news would be too
           | late and you would lose.
           | 
           | However, being the nerdy kid that I was I mapped out every
           | single possible route in the book and then simulated all
           | events going perfectly on each route and there didn't appear
           | to be a single way to actually win. The author had not done
           | the math right and the absolute fastest you could finish was
           | like 40 days even if you got crazy lucky with the dice.
        
       | Over2Chars wrote:
       | _gauntlet_ looks like GTA V 's story mode pattern.
       | 
       | GTA2 with it's competing gangs seem to have a "state" tracker in
       | the form of reputation scores with the game, while having an open
       | world map. As your reputation/state changed opportunities would
       | become available/unavailable.
       | 
       | I still think GTA 2's system is impressive.
        
       | ninetyninenine wrote:
       | Ai can produce a new type of game where choices are dynamic and
       | outcomes are generated by LLM agents. Fiction is an hallucination
       | and LLMs are master hallucinators.
       | 
       | Basically LLMs have to be given assets and game components that
       | they can easily compose.
        
         | withinboredom wrote:
         | Having had an LLM tell me a story, my answer would be that this
         | is a dumb idea. LLMs have no concept of realistic cause and
         | effect.
        
           | ninetyninenine wrote:
           | Nah I think not considering this idea at all is the extremely
           | dumb and brain dead opinion. LLMs can tell stories. Realistic
           | causes and effects aren't even consistent in human stories. A
           | good story isn't 100 percent dependent on this.
           | 
           | The LLM walks the line between hallucinating too much and
           | sometimes not. Either way you can pretty much guarantee that
           | almost all stories made in games now are already mostly
           | written by an LLM. It's just the writing is edited and
           | curated by a human.
        
             | woolion wrote:
             | I've done a short LLM-powered VN, and LLM actions were
             | restricted to local interactions only because of how weak
             | it is at making up the story. It's great at removing the
             | parser-based interactions, but I think that's it.
             | 
             | There's a second technical problem that such stories are
             | represented by a form of state-machine and that you would
             | need to recompile it on the fly, making many checks very
             | difficult (you would need to be able to check reachability
             | on the fly, chunk transitions, etc). I think it would take
             | years to get to the level of some of the great IF games
             | with an LLM, and not just a cool PoC.
        
             | usrusr wrote:
             | As a grumpy old symbolic ai hand I do wonder if it was
             | possible to build a (perhaps crude) ontology based
             | simulation with consistency, cause and effect and so on and
             | then use the results of that for prompting an LLM.
             | 
             | But as a consumer, I lean far to the side of "give me a
             | handcrafted tunnel experience with the illusion of choice"
             | in the divide between consequences yes or no. I don't think
             | I'd actually want this "simulation behind an LLM facade".
             | _If_ I 'm in the mood for reading (or for listening to
             | voice actors reading to me), I'd rather have it be
             | something more meaningful than just a game state. But to
             | those on the other end of the spectrum, this might actually
             | be the holy grail of game building.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | > Fiction is an hallucination and LLMs are master
         | hallucinators.
         | 
         | They're jacks of all trades, master of none.
         | 
         | This has its uses, but they have limits, and for now at least,
         | those limits are under the threshold for that.
         | 
         | I have actually tried using them to make a text adventure to
         | help learn German. The result was at the lower end of the
         | quality range I've witnessed from LLM output: a nice first
         | draft, not shippable, missing a core element, missing a lot of
         | content, too simple, the kind of thing where you'd give the
         | output of the LLM as a code challenge to a job candidate to see
         | how they improve it.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | An AI can easily produce a filler slop story. They struggle
         | much harder with creating something new and interesting. For a
         | CYOA type story for kids that might be reasonable, although
         | they tend to make a hash of the details. There are more
         | problems, like does the AI know when to stop? Can it recognize
         | or generate a bad end or a good end without explicit
         | instruction from the player?
         | 
         | Something like:
         | 
         | Generate a choose your own adventure story about a young boy
         | shipwrecked on an island populated by hostile pirates. A hidden
         | cave holds treasure. There is a jungle on the island. Dangerous
         | jungle creatures inhabit the island and the boy can not fight.
         | Also hidden on the island is a boat. Each story section is
         | around 200 words long and ends with a multiple choice question
         | for the player to select which path they want to pursue next.
         | The story is complete either when the boy dies or finds the
         | boat, after no more than 20 story segments.
         | 
         | I have some doubts the AI will be able to handle all of that
         | and keep it interesting and coherent. This sort of storytelling
         | requires some attention to detail that LLMs usually struggle
         | with.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Nicely timed I'm making a CYOA game right now so very interested
       | learn more.
        
         | ardleon wrote:
         | Hi, I've just 'finished' an app to make interactive text
         | stories/games and I'm looking for people to test my app with
         | real stories, if you're interested I could help you with your
         | story so you can publish it online wherever you want.
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | I'd give it a look my email is in my profile
        
             | ardleon wrote:
             | ok, the only thing is that the application is in Spanish,
             | at the time I did not contemplate that it was multilingual,
             | among other things because I made it for me, if you are
             | still interested I will write you and send you a link.
        
       | orthoxerox wrote:
       | I don't quite understand what "floating modules" are. Is it
       | something akin to sidequests in a CRPG or a "sandbox VN"?
       | 
       | One interesting (and very complex) approach I've seen in VNs is
       | multiple interleaved paths. Each path looks like a branch and
       | bottleneck, but at certain points a decision taken on one path
       | blocks or forces an outcome on another. You can linearize it into
       | a single "branch and bottleneck" with extensive state tracking
       | (this is how it's implemented, after all), but it's far easier to
       | model it as multiple paths.
        
       | numbsafari wrote:
       | I loved the Lone Wolf and associated books as a kid. One of my
       | favorite things about them was seeing glimpses of possible story
       | paths as I flipped around the book. When I would get to the end
       | knowing I had missed some enticing possibility in the story line,
       | I would immediately flip back to the beginning and start over.
        
       | eugenekolo wrote:
       | This was actually a really cool analysis. Fun to see how these
       | things can be broken down so cleanly into graphs.
        
       | tantalor wrote:
       | Here's the story map for The Stanley Parable:
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fm...
       | 
       | Looks like a "Time Cave"
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | could chess be considered a choice-based game?
        
       | rzzzt wrote:
       | IIRC in one of the "Fighting Fantasy" books the hero is captured
       | and can choose if they want to spend the rest of their lives in a
       | standing-only or a sitting-only cage - the story ends badly
       | either way. I was a bit angry reading it as I didn't have a "save
       | state" earmarked with the index finger.
        
       | hcs wrote:
       | I picked up some TutorText books recently, a programmed
       | instructional series from the late 50s to 60s. At the end of
       | every section there's a multiple choice question, one answer
       | leads to the next section, the other to an explanation of why
       | that answer was wrong. Pretty pure Gauntlet, I don't think
       | there's any follow up questions on a dead end path, though I
       | haven't mapped them all out fully. I like the idea of tailoring
       | explanations to specifically anticipated misconceptions.
       | 
       | Indexed here: https://gamebooks.org/Series/457/Show
       | 
       | And some exposition from Hackaday a few years ago:
       | https://hackaday.com/2020/08/28/a-tale-of-tutor-texts/
       | 
       | It looks like I need to take a closer look, that last article
       | says
       | 
       | > often the wrong answer pages take you on a detour path to
       | correct your thinking before rejoining the main line of the book.
       | 
       | which is what I was hoping to find.
        
       | chrisjj wrote:
       | > To avoid obliterating the effect of past choices, branch-and-
       | bottleneck structures almost always rely on heavy use of state-
       | tracking (if a game doesn't do this, chances are you are dealing
       | with a gauntlet).
       | 
       | I do not see that branch-and-bottleneck relies on use of state-
       | tracking any more than gauntlet.
        
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