[HN Gopher] Cuttle - a MTG like game using a standard 52 card deck
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       Cuttle - a MTG like game using a standard 52 card deck
        
       Author : 7thaccount
       Score  : 128 points
       Date   : 2025-01-10 18:43 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pagat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pagat.com)
        
       | 7thaccount wrote:
       | *I recently stumbled upon this, but haven't had the time to play
       | yet. It seems like it would be fun.
       | 
       | I've recently started learning card games that use a standard
       | deck of playing cards and have been pleased with many of them.
       | The advantage over trading card games is that it is MUCH cheaper
       | and takes up a lot less space and it doesn't feel like I'm
       | chasing an impossible goal.
        
         | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
         | A number of years ago I was at a friend's house and he wanted
         | to play Uno but he couldn't be cause his dog got into the deck
         | and many of the cards were damaged.
         | 
         | I noticed he had a couple of packs of playing cards on his
         | coffee table and upon closer inspection, I realized that each
         | card in Uno maps to a card in 52 card deck. A standard Uno deck
         | has 108 cards, which is a standard 52-card deck plus the
         | jokers.
         | 
         | So we played Uno with his two decks of playing cards.
        
           | InsideOutSanta wrote:
           | That's interesting. I always assumed that UNO was a branded
           | version of a very similar game we used to play as kids with a
           | regular deck of cards (e.g. 7 is draw 2, Jack allows you to
           | pick a color). The game is called Tschau Sepp and very
           | commonly played in Switzerland. I just assumed other
           | countries had their own version of it, and that UNO derived
           | from it.
        
             | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
             | Called mau mau in germany
        
           | popcar2 wrote:
           | My friend, you just rediscovered Crazy Eights:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eights
        
             | madcaptenor wrote:
             | In fact, Uno exists because one family liked playing Crazy
             | Eights but got tired arguing about the rules, so they
             | started writing the rules on the cards and eventually made
             | new cards: https://www.museumofplay.org/toys/uno/
        
         | mikepurvis wrote:
         | I tried to embark on this a few years ago, thinking
         | particularly for cases where space is at a premium (airports)
         | or I don't want to worry about wrecking/losing game components
         | (camping, the beach).
         | 
         | Overall I didn't find a lot that I liked, particularly in the
         | two-player space. Everything seemed to be either Rummy-family
         | games around set collecting, or trick-taking games that might
         | as well have been Hearts or Euchre.
         | 
         | All that to say, if you've got a few favourites, please
         | recommend!
        
       | netbioserror wrote:
       | For anyone who wants a more complex game proximate to this
       | design, there's a small production called Reinforcements
       | (https://reinforcementscg.myshopify.com/). Non-collectible,
       | single box.
       | 
       | You play a hand of up to 5 cards each turn: Adding cards to
       | (concealed) stacked ranks of defending troops, attacking an
       | opponent's ranks, using a card's ability. The suits have
       | different defensive properties when arranged in a rank, and
       | combine in interesting ways; there are also "ultimate" powers
       | players can grab from the center by forming their ranks with
       | particular arrangements of suits, which act as turtle-busters.
       | 
       | Highly recommended, quite fun, probably plays best 1v1.
       | Definitely a lot of small rules to absorb, so it's a more complex
       | beast. But nowhere close to the complexity of Magic.
        
         | 7thaccount wrote:
         | I'd never heard of reinforcements, but it looks awesome.
         | Definitely will purchase.
        
           | phasE89 wrote:
           | I'd never heard of astroturfing, but it looks intruguing.
           | Definitely suspicious.
        
             | Bootvis wrote:
             | They have 300 times and 1000 times the reputation you have.
             | Maybe dail down the paranoia.
        
               | phasE89 wrote:
               | That doesn't mean anything lol. I have over 100k karma on
               | Reddit, and I've rented the account several times for
               | various astroturfing posts for small startups. You'd be
               | surprised how common that is. (I'm not proud of that, it
               | was 6+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today)
        
               | slopeloaf wrote:
               | This is for a simple card game man. Recommending board
               | games is part of the culture of the hobby. It ain't that
               | deep
        
             | rpdillon wrote:
             | > Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing...If
             | you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and
             | we'll look at the data.
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | If co-op games are more your speed, check out Regicide.
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | Thank you!! This looks awesome. Cannot wait to try.
           | 
           | https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/307002/regicide
        
       | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
       | I am having some friends over next week for dinner and we'll
       | probably play some games afterwards. There are a ton of other
       | games listed on the site and I am sure there are some fun ones
       | here!
        
       | CAPSLOCKSSTUCK wrote:
       | It looks interesting, but I always struggle to explain (and
       | conversely when on the other side, to understand) the rules of
       | card games to new players. Has anyone had success in bringing a
       | game more complicated than Cards Against Humanity to their friend
       | group? What did you find helpful?
        
         | popcar2 wrote:
         | If you're playing with a friend group that has zero experience
         | with card/board games, you need to ease them into the hobby
         | with a game that's quick to explain and get into. If anything
         | takes more than 10 minutes to explain then people generally
         | give up.
         | 
         | I had success getting friends to play games like Codenames,
         | Fauna, Mountains of Madness, and Mysterium. There's a website
         | called BoardGameGeek that gives each game a "weight" rating
         | signifying how complex it is. Anything under 2/5 complexity
         | should be easy enough for anybody.
        
           | 7thaccount wrote:
           | I've had really good success with Monopoly Deal. Even if you
           | hate regular monopoly (like me), I highly recommend.
           | 
           | Rules are very simple, yet the strategy is deeper. You
           | essentially want to get 3 property sets, but there are all
           | kinds of action cards that allow you to steal properties or
           | sets, negate actions, charge people rent money...etc. Nobody
           | gets upset either as a typical game takes like 10-20 minutes.
           | You can play like 2-6 players iirc.
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | One of my favourite categories of game is the ones that can
           | be taught in one minute, yet has interesting gameplay.
           | Santorini, Quaridor and Orbito are all this category.
        
         | snarf21 wrote:
         | I think it is a function of building up the concepts.
         | 
         | You might teach someone how to play Hearts which is pretty
         | rules light. But once they understand that, other trick taking
         | games already have a head start.
         | 
         | Another approach is to start with something where the rules are
         | things on the cards so you learn them as you go. Sushi Go would
         | be a good example of something like this and pretty
         | approachable to start out.
         | 
         | Another good suggestion is something like No Thanks! Over time,
         | people start to see that a new game doesn't have to be onerous.
         | Slowly learning concepts like drafting and discards and tricks
         | and whatever, makes it easy to introduce further games because
         | it becomes "This is just like Game X but with new rule Y."
        
         | da_chicken wrote:
         | I've taught dozens of people to play Magic, although not in the
         | past 10 years.
         | 
         | First, if at all possible, teach only one person at a time.
         | Teaching multiple people a new game all at once is incredibly
         | difficult for _everyone_.
         | 
         | Second, they need to understand the basic turn structure or
         | play pattern if the game has one. If you can, print it out and
         | use it as a play-aid.
         | 
         | Third, play several games open-handed with pre-constructed
         | decks. Do not introduce the deckbuilding aspects of the game
         | right away. Make the decks simple and basic. Ideally, create
         | one deck for each "faction" in the game.
         | 
         | In Magic, Wizards made 30-card beginning decks in each of the
         | five colors that were meant for teaching the game. This was 15
         | years ago or more; I doubt they still do it since Arena exists.
         | They were all common, so nothing complicated. They were like...
         | $10 a set or something. So you'd do the above and play a couple
         | of games with different colors and let the new player find one
         | they like. Then, once they feel experienced and played a game
         | close-handed or with only one of us playing close-handed, I'd
         | ask them which two decks they liked the best, and I'd pick two
         | others. Then we'd each shuffle the two chosen decks together
         | and play again. And watching a person's mind expand into what
         | the game really was during that game was _incredibly_
         | satisfying. Ideally, at the end, I 'd just give them all five
         | decks to keep.
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | > First, if at all possible, teach only one person at a time.
           | Teaching multiple people a new game all at once is incredibly
           | difficult for everyone.
           | 
           | Interesting observation! I haven't had this experience at
           | all. I've taught lots of board games to people, usually to
           | multiple at once. The thing I find tricky is when you have
           | some people who have played before and they keep interjecting
           | with details that either aren't relevant yet, or I was
           | planning to mention at a better time in the explanation.
           | 
           | A group of all newbs is much easier.
        
       | antasvara wrote:
       | For those that are interested, there's an online version
       | available: https://www.cuttle.cards/signup
        
       | ajot wrote:
       | This reminds me of Duel [0], which also intended to be an MTG-
       | like with a 52 card deck.
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20100107192618/http://airship.ho...
        
       | nvarsj wrote:
       | This is fascinating. It seems obvious that this game was the
       | direct inspiration for MtG, as Richard Garfield was a huge card
       | game fanatic, and the number of unique effects it has in common
       | (wraths, bounce, etc.) that are so iconic in MtG.
        
         | freddie_mercury wrote:
         | Richard Garfield had never heard of Cuttle until fairly
         | recently
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/17cb47k/cuttle_...
         | 
         | Magic's direct inspiration was Cosmic Encounter.
        
           | nvarsj wrote:
           | Interesting, there must be some cross overs going on back in
           | the 70s. The mechanics are so similar to mtg.
        
       | luxuryballs wrote:
       | tap your opponents web server, they cannot untap it during their
       | untap step
        
       | specproc wrote:
       | Back in the day, me and a buddy wanted to play Magic -- mainly to
       | troll our friends -- but didn't have cards to hand.
       | 
       | We took a pair of normal card decks, mapped some basic decks to
       | the cards, and we did play. Good times.
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | There's a local pub by my old house that has a considerable
       | collection of board games so we got to sample a lot that we or
       | friends didn't already own. It always amuses me when I figure out
       | that a board or card game was obviously prototyped on a standard
       | card deck. It didn't happen a lot but it did happen a few times.
       | 
       | Four kinds of cards in 1-2 stacks? 10-13 cards of each kind? 2-4
       | special cards that are identical? Hmm, I wonder how this game was
       | invented...
       | 
       | I do wish we would get back to games that were just played with a
       | deck of cards though. More options for bored people at small
       | gatherings.
        
         | aloisdg wrote:
         | Like Coup or The Crew
        
         | butlike wrote:
         | Couldn't you just translate the rules to a standard playing
         | deck? Seems like a PITA, but if you dont want to go through
         | that effort, the ruleset inventor should get compensated for
         | their effort...
        
         | freddie_mercury wrote:
         | There are tons of them, mostly thanks to a renaissance in Japan
         | starting maybe a decade ago but spreading elsewhere.
         | 
         | Taylor's Trick Taking Table is a YouTube channel dedicated to
         | them. The Portland Game Collective's Discord channel is the de
         | facto English language home to the movement.
         | 
         | Most of them are very small scale and artisanal but a few
         | bigger publishers have also started doing more of them in the
         | past year.
         | 
         | The Tokyo Game Market has literally hundreds of new ones
         | released every year but most don't have English and can only be
         | bought in Japan.
         | 
         | A few smaller companies like Tricky Imports and Newmill Games
         | are importing them, though.
        
         | tweetle_beetle wrote:
         | There are quite a few made in niche communities but often not
         | very discoverable, as they aren't commercially viable and
         | marketed. One notable exception is The Emissary[1] which had a
         | successful retail release as For Northwood![2]. Kni54ts[3] is
         | often held up as another very good example of the genre, making
         | very creative use of the deck, but you can find many more
         | browsing through the links.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DB2YF46s0oVFUSIpR9vxoGIbhpT...
         | [2] https://www.sideroomgames.com/product/for-northwood/ [3]
         | https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2946002/wip-kni54ts-a-solo-...
        
       | jonny_eh wrote:
       | Looks fun, but all the special effects seem like they'd be hard
       | to remember. I wonder if there's a simpler variation that
       | requires fewer rules to remember.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | Games like this become much easier with a quick reference
         | printed out.
        
       | rpdillon wrote:
       | I'm a huge fan of card games that can be played with a regular
       | deck of cards, and I play Cuttle with my kids somewhat regularly.
       | It's a fast-paced game, but you do have to get over the initial
       | learning curve of the effects. I find just printing out a piece
       | of paper with a quick reference on it helps.
       | 
       | As others have alluded to in the thread, teaching people the
       | rules is a barrier. As I looked around for a professionally
       | printed game, I found a game that was very much like Magic the
       | Gathering, but also just a single box of cards called Mindbug.
       | 
       | https://mindbug.me/
       | 
       | Turns out it was designed by some folks that brought Richard
       | Garfield in near the end of its design and he ended up having
       | some say in the final product. I've played it a couple of times
       | and each game is only played with a random subset of the cards,
       | so the combinatorics create a lot of replay value.
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | Just a note for people who are fascinated by the idea of
       | sometimes skipping proprietary games that require specialized,
       | expensive, and often irreplaceable equipment: Other than pagat,
       | and David Parlett's page (https://www.parlettgames.uk/), we can
       | observe that the master has already given us two gifts.
       | 
       |  _New Tactical Games with Dice and Cards_ and _Dice Games
       | Properly Explained_ by Reiner Knizia
       | 
       | Two of the books I'd take to prison.
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | what a great website.
       | 
       | I was recently taught a card game, and when I searched for it I
       | could not find it anywhere. Now I can probably find it.
        
       | erganemic wrote:
       | I wish I knew more interesting games that could be played with a
       | standard deck. My wife and I travel a lot and there's something I
       | find deeply appealing about being able to walk into any gas
       | station, corner shop, or airport store anywhere in the world and
       | come out with a dependency-free way of entertaining yourself (or
       | even making friends!), and I feel like I don't know enough games
       | that take advantage of that.
       | 
       | That being said, I do have a few standbys:
       | 
       | Bullshit's a favorite for semi-large groups:
       | https://www.pagat.com/beating/cheat.html
       | 
       | Egyptian Ratscrew is my pick for 3-5 players (although I'd
       | caution it against playing it in quiet public spaces):
       | https://waste.org/~oliviax/cards/ratscrew.html
       | 
       | Lastly, Duel 52 is a recent favorite for just my wife and I to
       | play, and very much in the vein of Cuttle:
       | http://juddmadden.com/duel52/
        
         | Agree2468 wrote:
         | My Ukrainian roommate taught me Durak, it's a good complement
         | to ERS if the people you're with aren't as slap-happy as that
         | game require.
        
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