[HN Gopher] Soldering the Tek way
___________________________________________________________________
Soldering the Tek way
Author : zdw
Score : 187 points
Date : 2025-01-09 22:37 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (hackaday.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (hackaday.com)
| XorNot wrote:
| Just yesterday I bought myself a set of pure copper tips off
| Amazon.
|
| People say they don't last, but I have had an incredible amount
| of difficulty getting regular tips tinned and conducting heat
| efficiently.
|
| No combination of tip tinner, flux or cleaner has ever fully
| resolved it for me.
| serviceberry wrote:
| My best guess is that your soldering iron is running too hot,
| or that you're using the wrong kind of solder. It's generally
| not an issue.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| It's more likely that your iron is under powered for your
| application, and frankly a copper tip will likely make the
| problem even worse. There are three dimensions that impact heat
| transfer (temperature being equal): Thermal mass of the tip,
| thermal conductivity of the tip, and power transfer to the tip.
|
| If your iron cannot support a regular tip, it's likely that it
| cannot get enough power to the tip to sustain the heat being
| pulled from it (copper will just expedite this). You can try a
| beefier tip (or load up a tip with wet solder which can kinda
| give the same effect) or you can get a higher power iron.
|
| I've been soldering for 15 years with all manner of irons, I've
| never needed a copper tip, but I often need more than your
| standard hakko or weller. 400C on a the hakko is not at all
| close to being equal to 400C on a Metcal for instance.
| XorNot wrote:
| When the tip is tinned effectively though, my Hakko works
| fine. The problem is keeping it properly tinned is a damn
| challenge: i.e. I think I wiped the whole thing on a sal
| ammoniac block, then rosin flux, then put the whole tip into
| a solder bath and got...a tiny spot on the tip which has
| remained reliably tinned and is the one spot which works
| well.
|
| The symptoms are pretty obvious: even if the iron was
| underpowered, melting a thin piece of solder wire should be
| pretty much instant. My issue has just always been getting
| the tip to a shiny solder finish with all the recommended
| tools...just doesn't work once that iron layer oxidizes
| initially.
|
| EDIT: Although thinking about this now, actually the way you
| get rid of mill-scale is with white vinegar so maybe that's
| my actual answer: white vinegar for a couple hours, then
| rosin flux and then into the solder bath. Hopefully won't
| remove the entire iron coating on the tip since
| otherwise...copper tips again.
| joemi wrote:
| It sounds like maybe either you're doing something wrong or
| there's something wrong with your iron. I have a Hakko and
| it works great, I have no issues with tinning the tip at
| all, never had to do a vinegar soak or anything like that.
| femto wrote:
| I had a tip like this once. I ended up getting an old flat
| blade screwdriver and running the sharpish edge of it up
| and down the tip to remove the baked on crud, until I could
| see the dull shine of the plating all around. I then tinned
| the tip using flux bearing (electronics) solder and
| repeated until all the dry bits on the tip had gone and the
| tip was fully tinned. It seems to have been okay since then
| (quite a number of years).
|
| I wouldn't want to do the above too often and it's probably
| not the recommended way, but I seem to have gotten away
| with it by not being too rough with the screwdriver.
| Potentially worth a try if the tip is a write off
| otherwise.
|
| Once it is tinned, clean and tin the tip before turning off
| after every use (but you probably already know that).
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| What temperature do you have it set to?
| relwin wrote:
| Keeping a thin layer of solder on the tip when shutting down
| helps keep the tip from oxidizing, especially if you solder
| infrequently.
| gazchop wrote:
| You probably have a shitty soldering iron which can't deliver
| heat consistently. Try grabbing a used Metcal PS900 or MX500 on
| eBay. I have done zero maintenance or tinning on either of
| mine. They just work. I do SMD and TH stuff and rework no
| problems at all.
|
| Literally everyone who gets one goes "oh so that's what
| soldering is supposed to be like"
|
| Also might be crap solder. Get some decent Felder or Multicore
| stuff. Leaded is easier to work with and harmless if you wash
| your hands and don't lick your PCBs. Silver bearing leaded from
| Felder is what I tend to use. But it's about $70 a roll
|
| Edit: I see that you have a Hakko. Buy genuine tips. Or replace
| it with a different iron. The cheaper Hakkos are terrible.
| Gracana wrote:
| Replacing the entire soldering station would be quite an
| overreaction to an issue with the tip.
| gazchop wrote:
| It really isn't. It's probably not just the tip.
| ghayes wrote:
| Curious if anyone has tips on lead-free soldering. I basically
| always see in online forums "just use lead," but never any tips
| on how to actually become capable on using lead-free solder. Esp.
| as my son is around a lot, it seems prudent to stay lead-free,
| even if you can generally handle lead safely. Thanks.
| ryandamm wrote:
| I'm hardly an expert, but when I switched to lead-free solder
| (for the same reason, had a young kid around), the only change
| that helped me was soldering at a significantly higher
| temperature. The lead free stuff still doesn't behave quite as
| well as the leaded stuff -- hey, lead is useful! -- but I do
| feel a lot better about my garage. Though I did backslide when
| I had a project that required about 500 manual solder
| connections; after a few days of frustration I guiltily went
| back to lead, briefly.
| breckenedge wrote:
| Ditto. I switched to lead-free for custom keyboards and it
| didn't seem too terrible, just had to dial in the temperature
| more closely to avoid damaging components.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| I use lead free solder and haven't had issues though admittedly
| I have been soldering as an amateur for decades. You want flux
| and higher temperature. That's about the only adjustments. It
| goes without saying that you should use clean tips and a
| quality iron.
| sitharus wrote:
| Leaded solder is not a big health risk for hobbyists as long as
| you have proper fume extraction. Metallic lead is poorly
| absorbed through the skin (it _is_ absorbed from what I can
| find, but very very slowly), the major risk is from lead vapour
| and at normal soldering temperatures that's very minimal.
|
| However, lead free tin-silver-copper (SAC) solder is fairly
| easy to work with. You need a hotter soldering iron at around
| 300degC, and if soldering PCBs preheating the board to
| 80-100degC may be needed for good results. It may also take a
| bit longer for the solder to propagate flow and wet, since the
| surface needs to be hotter.
|
| If you're using additional flux or non-fluxed solder you'll
| need to check it for compatibility, that should be on the data
| sheet. Most fluxes are fine, but I've seen a couple that say
| not to use with some lead free solder formulations.
|
| The main downside to SAC lead free solder is the higher
| temperature required which can overheat some components,
| particularly capacitors and ICs in my experience. It's a case
| of being careful to keep the heat duration as short as
| possible.
|
| Personally I went back to lead solder and manage my exposure
| with ventilation and HEPA filters.
| TheBigSalad wrote:
| I've heard that the soldering temperatures aren't nearly
| enough to make the lead a gas and the fumes from the flux are
| what can kill you. I suppose the same advice applies in that
| case, but is that accurate?
| sitharus wrote:
| Yes that's accurate for hobbyist work. There will be some
| lead vapour, but at the temperatures used for soldering
| we're talking a few atoms. The flux is much more of a risk,
| and both are mitigated with proper fume extraction.
|
| Lead does bioaccumulate so continual exposure to low levels
| is dangerous, but unless you're soldering all day every day
| it's not likely to be dangerous.
|
| If you're a factory and have multiple wave soldering baths
| operating it's a different story.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Lead has a boiling point of 1749 degrees C. That is at
| least 1200 degrees higher than your typical soldering
| temperature. If you use a propane torch you'll almost
| touch that temp.
| sitharus wrote:
| Correct, but all materials have a vapour pressure so
| there will be a very small amount of lead vapour when
| soldering. Based on lead's vapour pressure it's in the
| range of a few atoms, I haven't done the math though.
|
| I mentioned it for completeness because someone else
| would if I didn't.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Quick math shows that vapor pressure of lead at 500
| degrees C is 1/7,600,000 of an atmosphere. I don't know
| how to calculate the rate of sublimation but this does
| seem pretty negligible.
| Aldipower wrote:
| Did you ever forgot a cup of water somewhere? It fumed
| away after 2 weeks! All without boiling it. :-O Same
| applies to lead, especially if you heat it to 360 C.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| I mean you can do an experiment: put a gram of lead onto
| a hotplate at 360C, then weigh it after 2 weeks. I would
| really love to see your results.
| hooli_gan wrote:
| Do you know how dangerous new vs old flux is? I'm using
| some old Kanifol' from the USSR and get headaches while
| soldering. Fume extraction would probably be a good idea,
| but I solder no more than 4h a year
| IgorPartola wrote:
| There is a technique where you breathe out as you solder.
| No idea if kanifol' is toxic or not but honestly if it
| gives you headaches why not try another type? Or wear a
| respirator?
| hooli_gan wrote:
| The answer is laziness
| sitharus wrote:
| It really depends on the flux, even modern fluxes have a
| range of toxicity. The only way to know is to check the
| MSDS.
|
| I use Kanifol'/rosin flux as well and use a fume
| extractor. Rosin flux is the most common for flux-cored
| solder in my experience.
|
| But a few times a year is unlikely to be an issue,
| soldering health effects are in people who do it for
| work.
| jdietrich wrote:
| Most electronics fluxes aren't particularly toxic, but
| rosin is a sensitiser - repeated exposure will cause an
| increasingly severe allergic reaction. Working in a well-
| ventilated room is probably fine if you only solder
| occasionally, but anyone who is soldering regularly should
| be using a good fume extraction system.
|
| https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg249.pdf
| zrobotics wrote:
| One thing I didn't see brought up in the sibling comments
| about vapor is that the real hazard of using leaded solder is
| small particles which can end up on clothing or your hands
| and later ingested. It is definitely a hazard to be aware of,
| you want to wash your hands after working with it and keep
| your workspace cleanliness in mind.
|
| For hobby work, I've switched to lead-free simply because
| that's what 99% of the boards I work on we're originally
| soldered with, but I still have some leaded solder around.
| That being said, it can be used safely, I cast my own bullets
| which generates a far larger amount of lead particulate and
| my blood lead levels were not at all elevated when I had them
| checked 2 years ago. But since it bioacumulates, you do want
| to keep exposure in mind.
| sitharus wrote:
| Good point, I totally forgot that because cleaning my
| workbench and hand washing after work is just second nature
| to me now.
|
| Metallic lead is dangerous if inhaled or ingested, but not
| a big concern for momentary contact with your skin as
| metal, especially given most modern solder is only 40%
| lead.
|
| Your body will remove a small amount of lead, so hobby
| soldering is unlikely to cause long term problems.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| You can also take lipoic acid, methionine, and n-acetyl-
| cysteine, to help the body remove bioaccumulated heavy
| metals.
|
| This is proven to work via hair-tissue mineral analysis
| before starting therapy, during, and after.
| BasilofBasiley wrote:
| I cannot imagine anyone soldering with SAC at 300oC. Not even
| leaded solder with pre-heating as merely an option. But
| somehow those values crop up from time to time.
|
| I'm not going to debate them though, I'll just dump my
| values, it might help someone.
|
| My job involves soldering at least once a week from through-
| holes to SMDs(mostly), 1.6mm to 0.8mm pcb thickness, from
| 1206 smd to 0402 (imperial) sizes. From flimsy 0402 resistors
| to beefy 1cm2 all metal casing inductors from hell.
|
| To do all this I use a JBC soldering station with C245 and
| C210 tips. I also use a non-brand hot-air station for TSSOP
| ICs with exposed pad on the underside for heat transfer.
| Sometimes I use a hot-plate as well, and a reflow oven while
| we're at it.
|
| On the JBC:
|
| For leaded solder: 350oC on both C245 and C210 tips. I do
| increase it to +/- 360oC on occasion to solder near big
| stubborn ground planes on the pcb. Less than that is
| impossible without pre-heating because I can't afford to
| spend more than a few seconds on each soldering op, both
| because have other things to do and because I can't overheat
| components. Overheating is also dependent on the _time_ you
| spend on each component. Might bump it up to 380oC on those
| inductors and switch the tips to beefier ones like the
| chisels and the knives.
|
| For unleaded SAC: 360oC to 380oC on those same tips, and I
| might bump it up to 400oC again on those inductors.
|
| On the hot-air station:
|
| For leaded: 275oC
|
| For SAC: 282oC
|
| On the hotplate: 240oC for both SAC and leaded. (Mostly
| repair work after pcbs come out of the oven.)
|
| On the oven: It's a temperature curve and I only use leaded
| solder paste. Peak at 240oC.
|
| NOTE1: All the soldering wire I use is flux cored. I tend to
| use extra flux a lot (Chipquik SMD291), even if it's not
| really necessary. But on lead-free SAC it's always
| obligatory.
|
| NOTE2: We don't have any fancy setup where I work and it's
| overall barely professional in my opinion. Pre-heating is not
| used much if at all so, I don't have any temperature values
| to share in that regard.
|
| NOTE3: The SAC solder wire I use is Sn99Cu0,7Ag0,3 EVO11 from
| CYNEL. I like the brand but I feel the need to try other
| formulations for different use-cases so I can get away with
| using lower temperatures on specific temperature sensitive
| components. On leaded I don't feel that need at all.
| sitharus wrote:
| That is indeed a typo, it's supposed to be 400degC.
| BasilofBasiley wrote:
| Got it. Cheers.
| oasisaimlessly wrote:
| You can (/ should) edit your original comment.
| stavros wrote:
| I have my Pinecil set to 320 C and it works beautifully for
| leaded solder. I momentarily bump it up to 400 for big
| ground planes, but rarely.
| BasilofBasiley wrote:
| It's curious how you use such a big temperature range.
| I've never used a pinecil despite having friends telling
| me very good things about it, which picked my interest a
| bit.
|
| Can you tell us what exactly do you solder at 320oC and
| what is the exact type of solder you use and/or Pb and Sn
| percentages?
|
| Also, is your pinecil calibrated? And which tips do you
| use at that temperature?
|
| Anecdotally, what usually happens to me at lower temps is
| the tip and/or the solder wire _sticking_ a bit while I
| 'm soldering which I take as a sign that the liquid
| solder won't flow correctly and that I have to spend more
| time giving it heat from tip, than I should.
| stavros wrote:
| I use 63/37 solder with a flux core. The Pinecil is
| amazing, it holds heat really well and gets to 320 C in
| eight seconds. I didn't calibrate my tip in boiling
| water, and I don't remember which tip I use now, it's the
| one that comes by default (B2?).
|
| I only bump it up to 400 C because that was the default,
| I never use it for more than two or three seconds so the
| temperature hasn't mattered much. I haven't noticed
| solder stick, it just sometimes fail to melt properly
| with large ground planes, so that's when I bump the heat.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Yeah I've found that SAC solder typically doesn't contain
| nearly enough flux to get the job done (just 2% at most,
| seriously?!). Small joints like really tiny wires work great
| at something like 370C so I can just touch it for a split
| second and it's instantly done, for anything else it's
| dripping into flux paste time and it works almost as good as
| leaded used to. Would've been easier to streamline the
| process if the rosin core was like 10% or 15% instead.
|
| Not all types of flux work well though, my local store sells
| something that has no labels but seems to be very aggressive
| and works exceptionally well, the more common no clean types
| don't do anything at all.
|
| Tips are definitely eaten a lot faster than leaded, but it's
| not exactly a huge expense when they're like a dollar or two
| for a 10 pack on aliexpress.
| rcxdude wrote:
| The higher temperature is the main source of difficulty: it can
| be harder to heat up a joint to the right temperature without
| overheating the iron tip or the components. So it's mainly a
| case of getting good thermal contact between the iron and the
| joint, and having a powerful enough iron and the right size
| tip.
|
| (One trick that can be very helpful is pre-heating: e.g.
| placing a board on a hot-plate at ~150C or so, or using a hot
| air gun to do the same. This means the iron doesn't need to
| heat a much. But of course this makes placing and holding the
| components more difficult)
| jwr wrote:
| Use a higher temperature and plenty of flux (I like flux pens),
| and you'll be fine.
|
| Leaded isn't actually a significant health risk for you, so you
| might as well go with that. It's not like you are going to
| breathe in lead. It's a problem for the environment in general,
| and you do not want to consume it, but it isn't that unsafe. A
| bigger problem is that you should never use leaded solder to
| repair boards that have been soldered with lead-free, which
| means pretty much every board out there that has been
| manufactured in the last 20-30 years or so.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I agree. The rosin/flux comprises the majority of the fumes.
| It's still a good idea to have ventilation.
|
| I have a setup in my garage with a vent fan connected to a
| dryer vent and a rubber flexible hose I can put near the
| solder station. I also hook it up to my 3D printer enclosure
| if I'm doing ABS.
| phaer wrote:
| > A bigger problem is that you should never use leaded solder
| to repair boards that have been soldered with lead-free,
| which means pretty much every board out there that has been
| manufactured in the last 20-30 years or so.
|
| I am unlikely to every try this, but curious: Why is that,
| what would happen?
| jwr wrote:
| It results in unreliable joints that will cause problems
| over time.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Source? If you're doing board repairs and adequately
| clean the previous components then I see little reason
| why adding leaded solder to the very small amount of
| remaining lead free solder would be a problem. If you
| have a full lead free joint and then add a bit of leaded
| solder, sure... but how many people are doing board
| repairs like that?
| serviceberry wrote:
| It's really OK. With modern formulations such as SAC305 and
| with temperature-controlled stations, there's no real
| difference, and no need to stick to lead.
|
| I think the resistance to the idea has two roots. First,
| there's a lot of old-timers who just didn't like the idea of
| the government meddling with their hobby, so they go out of
| their way to convince others to use leaded solder.
|
| Second, the first years of the switch were painful. You needed
| to upgrade some equipment, the early alloys were not performing
| great, there were problems with tin whiskers (which aren't
| specific to lead-free soldering, but were apparently happening
| more commonly), etc. But these days are gone. The industry has
| moved on.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I will say, you need to use high quality lead-free solder
| when you could get away with decent lead solder. The cheaper
| lead-free stuff has been junk in my experience.
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| Do you have any recommendations? I was soldering earlier
| today and noticed a particular joint wasn't flowing well at
| all. I looked over and had grabbed the lead-free solder
| from my spool holder. All the other joints with my crappy
| Radio Shack leaded solder were fine.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I don't. I have a roll of lead-free that works OK, but I
| got it so long ago that I don't know. I think it's an
| off-brand that doesn't even have a name on it, or the
| sticker peeled off. It's still more temperature sensitive
| than lead, but not bad. I think my better quality lead
| roll is from them too. I wish I knew the name so I could
| order more of each.
|
| On a related note, I've had terrible luck with any of the
| Chinese solders off of places like Temu or Banggood. Even
| the lead ones were junky.
| photon_rancher wrote:
| Chipquik works fine. There's probably better stuff but it
| is consistently good and doesn't seem to go bad (i can't
| tell much performance stuff between a roll that's old
| enough to have the label rubbed off and a brand new one).
| Ccecil wrote:
| With lead free use SAC305 with "no clean" flux (I prefer
| the name "low solids"...since you still need to clean
| it).
|
| For leaded Kester44 is my favorite.
|
| Set the iron temp to the datasheet of the solder...then
| never touch it.
|
| For larger pads use larger tips...a lot of people get
| into trouble cranking things out of range.
| jeffbee wrote:
| The government did not meddle with the hobby, though. You,
| hobbyist, can acquire and use as much lead as you want. You
| can order an 4kg bar of 60/40 lead solder on the internet
| right now. That's enough lead to measurably lower the IQ of
| 15 million children, if optimally applied. Nobody will stop
| you.
| lazide wrote:
| The hard part is holding them down while you apply it. They
| squirm like crazy!
|
| Also, you can buy pure lead in 1000 lb quantities (and
| leaded solder) at places like [https://www.rotometals.com/]
| with no paperwork.
| indrora wrote:
| As a child who was taught how to solder (Thanks Dad!) I can say
| this: making the practice of post-solder handwashing just A
| Thing does a lot to impart good practice.
|
| if you're super paranoid, D-Lead hand soap is a fantastic
| product: https://esca-tech.com/product/d-lead-hand-soap/ -- I
| use it post-shooting to wash my hands of lead and residues from
| firearms.
| Taniwha wrote:
| Yeah, I teach kids how to solder, we use unleaded solder, but
| always insist they wash their hands after
| amavect wrote:
| I suggest practicing on perfboards, TH and SMT. Chipquik has
| boards for about $2 each. Compare different solders (SAC305,
| K100LD, SN100C), temperatures, pad sizes, fluxes, etc.
| throwup238 wrote:
| Just use Metcal fixed induction soldering irons. I just saw a
| power supply for an MX-500 for $100 on eBay and there is the
| hobbyist level PS-900 on sale new for under $300 on Amazon
| right now (which works just as well but might not last 30 years
| like an MX-500). Thermaltronics was started by some Metcal
| engineers after their patents expired so they're a cheaper
| source of tips but I haven't looked at their power supplies
| recently.
|
| Unlike wellers and other soldering irons they don't use a PID
| loop. They exploit the curry effect of the alloys their tips
| are made of and pump 2.6 MHz RF into the handle which keeps the
| tip heated the entire time with zero delay, even when
| contacting huge copper pours. The downside is that you have to
| change the (expensive) tips to change the temperature, but the
| upside is that it's capable of delivering much more heat. Since
| the iron is capable of heating so fast, temperature control
| doesn't really matter because it can melt the solder long
| before damaging nearby chips.
|
| If you're not using a solder oven, that's the best option. It's
| expensive but it'll make a night and day difference to your
| soldering work. I've got a Metcal that's almost 25 years old
| that still runs like a champ, is compatible with tips sold by
| Metcal and Thermaltronics, heats better than any soldering iron
| I've used since, and is easily repairable if it breaks.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| The MX-500s have a design misfeature where power is
| constantly on internally. The switch only controls the output
| driver to the handpiece. Put these on a switched circuit for
| part time hobbyist use.
| jdietrich wrote:
| I don't want to start a holy war, but the JBC system with
| integrated cartridge tips is at least comparable to Metcal
| for high thermal mass joints and (IMO) superior for very fine
| SMD work. The JBC system has the advantage of allowing one-
| handed tip changes while the tip is still hot. It's also very
| affordable to get in the door, thanks to the proliferation of
| cheap Chinese stations that are fully compatible with JBC
| tips. I do agree that the traditional style of iron with a
| separate heater cartridge and tip is obsolete.
|
| https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006568050453.html
| opwieurposiu wrote:
| Metcal inductive irons are so much better then resistive, use
| one once and you will understand.
|
| I pugged my Metcal into a power meter the other day. The
| instant you the tip touches copper, the power jumps from ~4W
| to ~40W. The power goes back down as soon as the solder
| melts.
|
| If you can not find good deal on a Metcal, JBC irons are ok.
| Probably 80% as good soldering experience and often have a
| better (shorter) handpiece.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| The same responsiveness happens with a JBC iron in my
| experience. Temp hardly overshoots, and you can punch all
| 120W into a ground plane if you get good enough contact
| (and have a large enough tip). I've used both Metcal irons
| and JBC irons, and I would agree with the other poster that
| JBC is the better overall package.
|
| Key benefits:
|
| * JBC tips are cheaper, and clones are widely available
| that are just as performant and even cheaper ($10/tip)
|
| * JBC tips have adjustable temp; you can argue this isn't
| useful, but if you typically solder leaded but need to
| desolder something unleaded then this is a problem since
| you need to bump temp to desolder properly.
|
| * You mentioned this already, but handpieces are shorter
| generally. In my opinion this makes a huge difference to
| soldering experience, especially as I get shakier in my
| older age.
| SequoiaHope wrote:
| I'd never used Metcal or JBC until recently. I've managed
| 15 plus years of SMT work with Hakko style irons. I
| recently got a new job, and the guy who manages our lab and
| does our soldering previously did soldering for military
| satellites for 20 years. He said he has something like
| thirty satellites in orbit.
|
| When I asked for a soldering station I could use in the
| lab, I saw a lot of JBC machines around. I said "could I
| get a JBC?". He said "oh the JBC is a Ferrari. I don't
| think you need a Ferrari. I'll get you a Metcal. That's the
| Toyota of soldering irons."
|
| I can't comment on exactly what he means, but he seems very
| experienced and has good things to say about JBC.
| MarkMarine wrote:
| Depends on the components. You need to get enough heat into the
| joint that both sides are hot (pad and component) but not
| enough that you burn up a sensitive part. The hack people use,
| wetting the joint with solder by touching it to the iron can
| lead to a cold joint. Don't do that.
|
| Turn your iron up (I use 675) and ensure you're touching the
| pad first, it's a much larger heat sync. Lean the tip of the
| iron up to the component leg, give it a second and then feed
| solder into the other side of the leg, letting the leg of the
| component melt the solder and flood the joint. I use flux if
| I'm really worried about the joint, the fluid transfers heat
| better. There should be a clear fillet arcing between the pad
| and leg of the component, solder should be wet 100% around the
| pad and gracefully blend into the component leg. The joint
| should not look sandy or dirty or have bad surface finish.
| Hackbraten wrote:
| > Turn your iron up (I use 675)
|
| I felt a little puzzled about this but then it hit me that
| you probably meant Fahrenheit.
|
| To spare others the conversion: 675 degF is roughly equal to
| 350 degC.
| andrelaszlo wrote:
| I solder very rarely and quite badly, but switching to non-
| lead solder just made it impossible to get good joints. I
| had to get a better iron, nothing fancy but with higher
| effect, meaning I can get to a higher temperature faster
| without turning the whole PCB into mush.
| ahartmetz wrote:
| Lead-free solder will have a dull surface even on a good
| joint though, no? IMO worth mentioning. Not grainy or with
| visible "fault lines", but dull.
| MarkMarine wrote:
| yes, dull, but not rough or grainy that is exactly correct.
| It should be uniform, no grains or chunks, no crystal
| structure, no boundaries but smooth.
| userbinator wrote:
| Don't forget that many of us grew up in an era when leaded
| gasoline was widely used, and if anything the population today
| does not seem any smarter, so whatever effects leaded solder
| has is going to be miniscule in comparison.
| photon_rancher wrote:
| 1) board preheat. In a pinch, heat gun or old hairdryer. But
| ideally get a cheap ceramic one off amazon or something.
| Typically set it to 75C for delicate components. For sturdy
| boards i start there and if that still sucks you can usually go
| up to ~150C. Usually its the heating element or air temp not
| the board temp.
|
| 2) Flux and thin solder. Solder should contain flux too. Use
| solder paste whenever possible and keep it refrigerated when
| not in use as it dries out
|
| 3) you need a high wattage iron and usually a thicker tip with
| more heat capacity. A slightly higher temp helps a little, but
| the wattage helps it stay a consistent temperature from the
| start to end of the joint.
|
| 4) when designing boards use ENIG and not HASL
|
| 5) remove any old solder before attempting to add more to a
| joint (older than a day or two).
|
| 6) sometimes an air gun on a arm helps too on thick copper
|
| 7) get really good lighting with a mix of diffise and
| directional sources. Brighter than you'd think
| randunel wrote:
| Don't equate solder to (liquid) metal touching other metal.
| Soldering is a chemical reaction between metals, and it needs a
| pretty high temperature for that to occur. The solder simply
| touching the other metals isn't enough, those are commonly
| called cold joints, because the chemical reaction didn't
| happen, only the mechanical melting and freezing did.
| mystified5016 wrote:
| I say this as someone who has been soldering their entire life,
| but lead-free is fine. The differences between leaded and lead
| free are minimal these days.
|
| The best way I can describe lead-free solder is like using some
| old and really crappy leaded solder. It can get kinda gummy and
| ugly, but usually only when you touch a joint for the tenth
| time.
|
| The way to make lead free solder flow and work like leaded is
| simple: flux. Flux pens are alright, but your world will be
| forever changed by gel flux in a syringe. Clean up with rubbing
| alcohol and a toothbrush or paper towel.
|
| Modern solder alloys are pretty good. Just don't buy the
| cheapest thing you can find. Always, _always_ get your solder
| from a good manufacturer like MG chemicals. Also buy fluxed
| (not no-clean) solder wick from those guys.
|
| I used to be in the "just use lead" camp, but there's really no
| benefit. I've been exposed to far more than enough lead in my
| career. Lead-free is totally fine.
|
| Some people fret about solder whiskers, but I'm unconvinced
| that this is a real problem worth discussing. It seems to be
| myth more than a practical problem that anyone but NASA should
| care about.
|
| Just use good lead-free. It's only trivially worse than leaded.
| It's fine.
| theogravity wrote:
| That was extremely informative for such an old set of videos.
| moffkalast wrote:
| The first time I've heard of vacuum desoldering, so simple and
| yet looks like magic compared to struggling with wicks. I have
| gotta get myself one of those spring loaded plunger things.
| jakedata wrote:
| I learned to solder electronics using my father's giant Weller
| soldering gun. 40 years later I was visiting and had to repair a
| tiny connection on an electronic candle. I felt like Captain
| Caveman wielding that giant humming pistol with the lightbulb
| illuminating the work but by cracky I could still do fine work
| with that monster tool.
|
| This was the longest video I have watched on Youtube in ages. The
| lack of intrusive ads was refreshing.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| I would love to play around with electronics but I hate
| soldering. I hate the toxic smell and fumes, I hate the small bit
| of metal shards that seem to go everywhere. It's been 100 years
| since electronics, why no soldering alternative to make
| connections?!
| giantg2 wrote:
| Technically I think there are conductive glues, but they aren't
| right for everything.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| Gamechanger!
| sitharus wrote:
| Soldering makes a metal-metal connection, with the flux
| ensuring oxides are removed. This makes a very low resistance
| connection, mechanically it's very strong, and it's easy to
| automate. As a bonus it's also very easy to undo.
|
| Other technologies like glues and crimping have their uses but
| are less reliable, higher resistance, or difficult to automate.
|
| This may change but there's little demand. Glues have lower
| conductivity and are harder to remove, mechanical connectors
| are bulky and not as strong.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| What about solder that has flux inside m?
| sitharus wrote:
| It's the same as applying flux separately, the flux is
| displaced by the metal.
|
| If you're applying fluxed solder directly there's not much
| point applying separate flux to clean metal. Of course the
| flux will boil off pretty quickly so you need to use extra
| if you're doing something where the solder wire doesn't
| directly touch the components, or if the metal is old or
| previously soldered.
|
| The only advantage to non-fluxed solder for most hobbyists
| is being able to choose your flux, but for most of us rosin
| is fine and fairly non-toxic.
| s_m_t wrote:
| Use a fume hood or extractor and really learn how to solder
| properly. It sounds like you are either running your iron too
| hot and/or you are trying to melt your solder on the iron and
| pass it to the joint. The pros use a TON of flux because it
| practically solves the oxidization issue and helps a lot with
| spreading the heat to where you want it to go. Half of your
| temperature issues can be solved by either preheating your
| boards or spot heating with a hot air rework tool.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| I also hate flux. Also seems chemically dangerous and
| horribly sticky.
| s_m_t wrote:
| You don't have to touch it or eat it ;)
| ibash wrote:
| Electronics is not for you
| sitharus wrote:
| Flux in flux cored solder is rosin, rosin is distilled from
| pine sap and is a permitted food additive. It's as a glaze
| on chewing gum and pharmaceuticals.
|
| Rosin is also used on violin bows to increase friction, and
| it's the white powder you'll see gymnasts and baseball
| pitchers apply to their hands to improve grip.
|
| Rosin vapour is a lung irritant, so avoid breathing it by
| using a fume extractor, and for some people it can cause
| contact dermatitis.
|
| Yes it's horribly sticky, that's the worst part about it
| really. Isopropyl alcohol will dissolve it.
| petee wrote:
| You could do wire wrapping like nasa still does; there will
| definitely be a high quality tutorial somewhere. Or if building
| a squashed bug circuit you could use crimps (with or w/o the
| insulator to be pretty)
|
| But besides breadboards you're kinda stuck with facilitating a
| clean soldering setup, which is fairly easy - if you're really
| worried build a gloved-box. I just wear a respirator and open a
| window
| flyingzucchini wrote:
| "Sodder" - I never pronounced it like that. It was always "Sold-
| er"
| sitharus wrote:
| Sodder is the common American pronunciation, most of the rest
| of the world says solder.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Nah some of the rest of us say sodder too, solder sounds too
| close to soldier when you've got an accent haha.
| geor9e wrote:
| Interesting. My experience is the opposite. Sodder, soddering
| is the norm. Every lab, every tech at every company has said it
| that way. I'm from the west coast USA if thats relevant. If I
| ever heard someone say "sold-er" I probably dismissed it as
| someone who only ever read the word, and was sounding it out
| phonetically.
| ziml77 wrote:
| NJ here. Also say it without the "L".
| cwalv wrote:
| When I was in college I worked as an "electronics technician"
| intern for a few months. We would work through 3-10 page mods to
| update PCBs from one version to the next. We worked under a
| scope, and sometimes routed magnet wire all the way across the
| board, or even thru vias from one side to the other. It was
| painstaking work; I had a coworker friend who was a true artist.
| I never got that good at it, but I sometimes miss that kind of
| work.
| plasticbugs wrote:
| This comprehensive film series from PACE is how I learned (and
| lots of practice) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIT4ra6Mo0s
| Animats wrote:
| Here's real soldering the Tektronix way.[1] This is the soldering
| technique for Tektronix ceramic terminal strips, which had silver
| fired into the surface of the ceramic. The solder used was 3%
| silver. The innards of Tektronix scopes of that era are just
| beautiful.
|
| Tektronix was the first to make oscilloscopes where the screen
| was calibrated, and you could measure voltage reasonably
| accurately. Earlier scopes just let you see the general shape of
| a waveform. So Tektronix had to develop components and techniques
| to make electronics behave consistently, over a wide range of
| temperature and humidity, in portable instruments.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpB5JqGo1co
| chiph wrote:
| I attended a high-reliability soldering class while in the USAF.
| The attention to detail needed for a perfect solder joint is
| phenomenal. I had lots of good-looking joints get rejected for
| reasons such as exposed copper and a joint that had a convex
| surface.
|
| There is a USAF Technical Order for this, issued by the Navy and
| shared with the Marine Corps:
|
| https://www.robins.af.mil/Portals/59/documents/technicalorde...
|
| Cleaning the joint before and after was key. We used isopropyl
| alcohol in a push-down dispenser bottle, and acid brushes where
| we cut the bristles down to about 1/4" inch.
|
| Another poster asked about lead-free solder, and the military is
| using it now but has concerns over tin whiskers.
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