[HN Gopher] How Britain got its first internet connection (2015)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Britain got its first internet connection (2015)
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 162 points
       Date   : 2025-01-09 20:02 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theconversation.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theconversation.com)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | I've put 2018 as an approximation above because the intro says "a
       | few years before he died" in 2020. If anybody can figure out the
       | actual year, we can change it.
       | 
       | Edit: in HN titles, if you see a year at the end in parens, that
       | indicates the year that the _article_ originated. If you see a
       | year that 's not at the end in parens, that's part of the article
       | title, meaning it's probably about something that happened that
       | year. That's the convention anyhow.
        
         | hildenae wrote:
         | It says it was newer published (before now), so would not 2025
         | be correct?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | We usually try for the year that the article originated.
        
         | 6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote:
         | "The impact of the internet on our way of life in its first 40
         | years has been immeasurable. It has expanded and developed in a
         | way none of us envisaged in 1975", suggesting 2015?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Not sure how literally to take the 40 but that's at least
           | more precise than "a few" so I've switched to 2015 above.
           | Thanks!
        
       | lysace wrote:
       | So I was just reading through a 1988 Swedish popular book on
       | "data communications". Not a single word on Arpanet/etc. _Many_
       | other network technologies and attempts at global networks
       | described.
       | 
       | My point: "Internet" wasn't very well-known "even" in 1988
       | outside of well-connected places.
       | 
       | Book: Scandinavian PC Systems, Valentino Berti: "Introduktion
       | till datakommunikation"
        
         | kjellsbells wrote:
         | The inter-networking part of Internet was specialist knowledge
         | restricted to those researchers actively working in the space.
         | But countries had rich national networks back then, e.g. UK
         | universities had a thing called JANET (joint academic network)
         | that allowed, say, someone at the University of Kent to send
         | files to someone at the University of Durham. The hosts were
         | heterogeneous but the protocols were kinda sorta in place
         | (there was a lot of X.25 leased lines and UUCP dialup, if I
         | recall). Kent sticks in my memory because they could do
         | commercial email in the old path!to!destination style if you
         | knew the right guy to call. And Durham because they had this
         | incredibly wacky mainframe OS, Michigan Terminal System, which
         | I have never seen anywhere except there and at Newcastle (a
         | town 40km up the road from Durham).
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | It looks like Archive.org has it.
           | 
           | https://archive.org/details/michigan-terminal-system-
           | distrib...
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | Any idea when JAnet connected to the Internet? When I first
           | used it ~1994 I remember they had a single 2Mbps connection
           | to the USA for the whole of JAnet.
           | 
           | What connection did the housing in the dorms at Kent have? I
           | seem to remember serial ports in the rooms, but could have
           | been ether?
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | JANET went live in 1984. Before then, UK universities were
             | connected by X.25 links with ARPAnet gateways to Rest of
             | World. (Such as it was then - basically the US and
             | Scandinavia.)
             | 
             | You could, with a tiny amount of password hacking, joyride
             | around the system quite easily, at least as far as getting
             | to a login message on a remote host, possibly logging on
             | with a guest account and having a text chat with surprised
             | people in other countries.
        
               | gnufx wrote:
               | Yes, SRCNET/SERCNET/JANET were great as a physics
               | researcher, despite what people have said about X.25. A
               | potentially interesting point is that TCP/IP on JANET
               | originally ran over X.25 until X.25 was finally phased
               | out.
        
               | rjsw wrote:
               | You could also connect to JANET hosts from commercial
               | machines over X.25.
               | 
               | I had an account on the NRS host machine to administer
               | our site info.
        
             | gnufx wrote:
             | The "fat pipe" didn't look so fat at that stage! (I don't
             | remember when you could first easily interact with the
             | Internet.)
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | I have fond memories of the Nordic university network
             | (NORDUnet) when the US<-->Sweden link was upgraded to
             | 34Mbps in '95 (NORDUnet kept 24Mbps of the cable
             | initially). At the time the fastest connection between the
             | US and elsewhere in Europe was 6Mbps, according to the
             | NORDunet 25 year report....
             | 
             | At one point there was an outage of the Sprint connection
             | to Sweden that the Nordic connection to the US went over,
             | and the Nordic countries for several hours saturated
             | connections throughout parts of Europe that were in no way
             | at a scale suitable to be a functional backup for the
             | traffic from the Nordic countries...
             | 
             | It was first later I realised how spoiled we'd been... Tens
             | of Mbps FTP speeds to other Nordic countries was routine in
             | 94/95, for example.
        
               | llm_trw wrote:
               | Fascinating, do you think this is the reason why Linux
               | started there?
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | I mean, it can't have hurt, but Linus started programming
               | long before he started university, and I assume he had no
               | access before he started so odds are he had the interest
               | already. It might have eased access to some material he
               | needed, but you slower connections weren't a huge
               | limitation back then either.
        
               | mrmlz wrote:
               | I've never heard of NORDUnet - but googling it seems to
               | be the international facing part of the more (in Sweden
               | at least) famous SUNET!
               | 
               | https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunet
               | 
               | https://internetmuseum.se/tidslinjen/nordunet-connects-
               | the-n...
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | Well, not just SUNET. It includes SUNET (Sweden), UNINETT
               | (Norway), FUNET (Finland), Forskingsnettet (Denmark) and
               | RHnet (Iceland), and was how the Nordic networks arranged
               | internet access - before NORDUnet only Norway had
               | internet/Arpanet access (largely due to NATO - the NORSAR
               | connection from the early 70's was because the seismic
               | array was a way of keeping track of Soviet missile
               | tests), and only to a few institutions.
        
             | mhandley wrote:
             | UCL was on both the JAnet X.25 network and the Internet
             | when I joined in 1985, and provided a relay service between
             | the two for email and for telnet. Maybe others - not sure.
             | Relaying email required translating the address order as
             | the UK used big-endian "foo@uk.ac.ucl.cs" and the rest of
             | the world used little-endian "foo@cs.ucl.ac.uk". There were
             | a whole set of heuristics to figure out which order the
             | destination should be, which worked fine up until
             | Czechoslovakia joined with their .cs domain. I think it was
             | probably in the early 90s when JAnet fully deployed IP-
             | over-X.25, and all UK universities became IP-reachable, but
             | some would have been reachable before then.
             | 
             | Peter was also responsible for the UK using .uk instead of
             | the ISO country code "gb" which it should have been
             | according to "the rules". But Peter insisted on .uk, as the
             | official name of the country was "The United Kingdom of
             | Great Britain and Northern Ireland", and he thought GB was
             | not properly inclusive of Northern Ireland. It took until
             | 2021 for UK to replace GB on car number plates (and
             | stickers for travelling abroad).
        
               | rjsw wrote:
               | There was an FTP relay as well.
        
               | lproven wrote:
               | > UCL was on both the JAnet X.25 network and the Internet
               | when I joined in 1985
               | 
               | Same for Royal Holloway out in Egham when I went up, also
               | in 1985.
               | 
               | I was foo@vaxa.rhbnc.ac.uk or uk!ac!rhbnc!vaxa@foo (or
               | something like that).
        
             | fanf2 wrote:
             | JANET started running IP-over-X25 in 1991 and within a year
             | the volume of IP traffic was greater than the volume of
             | native JANET traffic.
        
             | dannyobrien wrote:
             | I don't remember all the details, but allegedly some
             | undergraduates at a college very close to me in the late
             | 80s were able to get limited Internet access by snagging
             | the passwords of CS postgrads who had remote accounts at
             | UCL via Janet, and logging in when they weren't around.
             | 
             | Boy, those scalliwags would have got into a _lot_ of
             | trouble if they had got caught.
        
             | UncleSlacky wrote:
             | When I was at Kent (88-91) the few rooms which did have
             | connections (only available in the new-build Darwin Houses
             | at the time, IIRC) had basic serial ports. The colleges (
             | _not_ dorms, if you please!) had dedicated computer rooms
             | (using mostly old TA Alphatronics as terminals) with a PAD
             | connecting them to the Cambridge Ring campus network. We
             | had full email /FTP privileges for the Internet (the term
             | 'JANET' was still used, but it was becoming less prominent)
             | but mostly only read-only Usenet privileges, unless you
             | asked the right person very nicely.
        
             | matt-p wrote:
             | It was certainly in place at the launch of SuperJanet in
             | 1993, where 55 Universities each got a 34Mbps connection. I
             | could believe only 2Mb to the USA, but it had a number of
             | connections to europe and UK ISPs that were faster.
        
               | matt-p wrote:
               | NB by 1999 is was 2X 155Mb to the US, and by Feb 2002
               | became 2X 2.5Gbps.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | The connections to Europe were great. Relied on all those
               | lovely FTP archives in Scandinavia.
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | IIRC Finland was connected by then.
        
           | lysace wrote:
           | I do understand your urge to turn this into a competition -
           | but let's not.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Far be it from me to step between Sweden and Finland but
             | this might be a moment to mention from
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:
             | 
             | " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation
             | of what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
             | criticize. Assume good faith._"
             | 
             | (which of course applies to your comments as well)
        
               | lysace wrote:
               | Fair.
        
               | lysace wrote:
               | But I think we had it handled.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | By '73? My understanding is the only other country outside
           | the US to have a connection at that point was Norway, and
           | only NORSAR and maybe one other location. NORSAR only because
           | it was a critically important seismic array used by NATO to
           | monitor Soviet missile tests.
           | 
           | As far as I can tell, Finland first got ARPANET connection
           | via NORDunet in 1988 [1][2][3], though possibly indirectly a
           | few years before as there was a connection to Sweden a few
           | years earlier.
           | 
           | [1] https://siy.fi/history-of-the-finnish-internet/
           | 
           | [2] https://csc.fi/en/news/funets-anniversary-40-years-of-
           | action...
           | 
           | [3] From [2]: "On Thursday December 1st, 1988, the first
           | routing test was carried out, allowing IP packets to pass
           | from Finland via Nordunet to the USA, in effect the National
           | Science Foundation's NSFNET and Arpanet networks. This
           | connected Finland to the international Internet via the Funet
           | network. The following message can be seen as the beginning
           | of the Finnish Internet."
        
             | euroderf wrote:
             | That sounds about right. I was working at the NSF in the
             | late 80s, around when they were uniting all the scattered
             | mini nets into Teh Interwebz, and I was trading emails with
             | Finns. And BTW I was not trying to compete.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | I was in the basement of UCL computer science (in the Pearson
         | building) in 1988. Our lab had a very special yellow (Don't
         | ever touch that!!) cable that ran across the ceiling between
         | joists, then off under UCH toward Telecom tower. Of course we
         | hung bits of origami on it with cotton. Apparently that was
         | JANET. I never heard anyone say "The Internet" back then, but
         | we did have a coms lecture where "inter-networking" was a
         | thing. Nice to read some old names in that piece.
        
           | grumblepeet wrote:
           | Until relatively recently I worked with JANET (or Janet -
           | lower case - as it is now) as part of Jisc, the UK's NREN. I
           | also worked with the wider European org, GEANT, that runs the
           | academic networks across Europe. We were (and still are )
           | very proud of Janet.
        
           | mhandley wrote:
           | I was also in one of those basement labs in the Pearson
           | building in 1988. Not exactly the nicest place to work, but
           | some great equipment. I particularly remember that year
           | coding a graphical application in NeWS (Sun's original
           | network window system, long before it became X/NeWS) on a Sun
           | Workstation there, which was an amazing piece of kit for its
           | time. Also remember the DecStation 3100s we had down there
           | that would periodically catch fire.
        
             | nonrandomstring wrote:
             | Nice to meet you. Yeah the smell of overcooked circuits
             | down there was something eh? I forget my room number now
             | but there was something called the Pyramid next door that
             | was mysterious and hush-hush. Phil Treleaven was my prof
             | (saw him outside Waterstones last time I was around ULU so
             | he must still be there).
        
               | mhandley wrote:
               | Haha, yes, the Pyramid was alien technology, but the
               | cover story was that it was a multiprocessor RISC
               | minicomputer.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_Technology When I
               | arrived at UCL, there were three PDP 11/44s of which one
               | (?) was shared by all the undergrads. The pyramid
               | replaced those circa 1987 and was a huge improvement.
               | 
               | If I recall correctly, the main workstation lab was B10A,
               | where I spent a lot of time. Then there was a narrow
               | room, B09 I think, that had mission control on the right
               | hand side with a machine room behind it, and a second
               | machine room on the left side. Can't remember which
               | machine room the Pyramid was in.
               | 
               | And yes, Phil is still around.
        
               | nonrandomstring wrote:
               | The POP11s were a rack of ribs when I saw them, so I
               | figure you must be one of the older boys. Awesome.
               | Totally pm me man. im at @cybershow.uk
        
           | corford wrote:
           | Memories. I had an unfiltered 100Mbit ethernet port, with
           | public static IP, in my dorm room at Manchester Uni in 2000
           | thanks to JANET. It was amazing compared to the ISDN line at
           | home (...which until then I had thought was the bees knees).
           | It took almost another 15 years before I could get something
           | faster at home than what I'd had at uni (!)
        
             | peterstjohn wrote:
             | I even hosted a mirror of the original Mozilla source code
             | dump from St. Anselm Hall, and nobody ever complained ;P
        
         | qw wrote:
         | I think knowledge was more localised to certain universities or
         | researchers.
         | 
         | Norway was the first country outside of USA to be connected to
         | Arpanet in 1973 to share seismic data, but the universities did
         | not gain general access until 1983.
         | 
         | I posted submitted a link to a story here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42655568
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | xp84 wrote:
         | I'm happy that you Brits finally got the Internet in 2018. It
         | took a while, but I hope it was worth the wait.
        
           | louthy wrote:
           | > I hope it was worth the wait
           | 
           | It's awful, what's wrong with having a chat, in person, over
           | a nice cup of tea?
        
         | crankyOldGuy wrote:
         | Sorry if I'm unclear on what 2018 is supposed to mean
         | (understand it's an approximation). But internet service is
         | much older than that. According to Wikipedia,
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_the_United_Kingdom
         | 
         | Pipex was established in 1990 and began providing dial-up
         | Internet access in March 1992, the UK's first commercial
         | Internet service provider (ISP).
         | 
         | That's about the same time it became available in the U.S. I
         | got home internet service (dial-up) in the mid-1990's.
        
           | philipkglass wrote:
           | 2018 is the estimated year of the article, not the events
           | described in the article.
        
           | jlund-molfese wrote:
           | Some of the other comments are joking around, but 2018 refers
           | to the original date the article was published :)
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | > Pipex was established in 1990
           | 
           | I know reading the article is very much out of fashion, but
           | all the dates given in the article are in the 1970s.
           | 
           | Just like the dates in the Wikipedia article you linked.
        
       | cpr wrote:
       | That March 1977 map always brings back a flood of memories to
       | this old-timer.
       | 
       | Happy nights spent hacking in the Harvard graduate computer
       | center next to the PDP-1/PDP-10 (Harv-1, Harv-10), getting calls
       | on the IMP phone in the middle of the night from the BBN network
       | operations asking me to reboot it manually as it had gotten
       | wedged...
       | 
       | And, next to me, Bill Gates writing his first
       | assembler/linker/simulator for the Altair 8080... (I tried
       | talking him out of this microcomputer distraction -- we have the
       | whole world of mainframes at our fingertips! -- without success.)
       | 
       | (Edit:) We also would play the game of telnet-till-you-die, going
       | from machine to machine around the world (no passwords on guest
       | accounts in the early days), until the connection died somewhere
       | along the way.
       | 
       | Plus, once the hackers came along, Geoff Steckel (systems guy on
       | the PDP-10) wrote a little logger to record all incoming guests
       | keystrokes on an old teletype, so we could watch them attempting
       | to hack the system.
        
         | ManuelKiessling wrote:
         | Dear Sir, could you just, you know, continue writing? I just
         | love these stories, would love to hear more!
        
           | mromanuk wrote:
           | Yes, please! I love these comments on HN, this is blog
           | material.
        
           | coffeecantcode wrote:
           | If this man wrote a book I'd read it.
        
           | cpr wrote:
           | Nah, it'd come out too much as "almost famous".
           | 
           | I did manage to avoid being Microsoft employee #12 or so (my
           | buddy Bob Greenberg was #8, I think?, and encouraged me to
           | come join them), and Adobe employee #8 (I knew Chuck Geschke
           | from some earlier work done as an undergrad extending his PhD
           | thesis to Harvard's extensible language ECL), due to various
           | life circumstances. I guess God didn't want be to be a
           | spoiled rotten billionaire.
           | 
           | Another near miss was co-consulting with Len Bosack at HP
           | setting up Lisp Machine networking, and wondering how the
           | heck the then-nascent Cisco was ever going to sell more than
           | a few hundred routers (based on the same Sun-1 boards
           | developed by Andy Bechtolstein at Standford that we used at
           | Imagen, the first typeset-quality laser printers, a spinoff
           | from Don Knuth's research at Stanford) to universities and
           | government labs.
           | 
           | As Gates said, those of us who grew up with the ARPAnet and
           | came to take it as a simple fact of life like electricity
           | didn't see the Internet juggernaut coming.
        
             | Suzuran wrote:
             | You worked at Imagen? I had to write a partial Impress
             | emulator a little while ago so I could make waste paper
             | from my lispm. It only supported the image format since
             | that was the only thing the lispm sent when printing the
             | screen, but it beat the heck out of taking photos of a CRT.
        
               | cpr wrote:
               | Yes, helped start it (first or second employee back in
               | 1980(?)).
               | 
               | Wild! I had forgotten the LispMs had Impress support; I
               | think that came out of the time when we worked with Janet
               | Walker, head of documentation at Symbolics.
        
         | Suzuran wrote:
         | On the subject of that last item, it is to my amusement that
         | modern internet scanners are completely confused by a 1970s
         | operating system. They record a "hit" when they find an open
         | telnet port, but then get stuck because there is no
         | recognizable prompt after the system banner message prints.
         | They find a running FTP server but get confused that it does
         | not use recognizable filesystem semantics. They get even more
         | confused when it ignores passwords because the system has none.
         | By all rules and tenets of security doctrine this system should
         | be the internet equivalent to a smoking crater, instantly and
         | utterly destroyed by advanced security threats beyond the
         | imaginations of its creators.
         | 
         | PS: It is also amusing that an unmodified 1970s SMTP server can
         | still deliver messages to gmail and receive responses back,
         | given only the provision of a SPF record. Sadly, the coming
         | mandatory requirement for DKIM will finally make this no longer
         | a possibility.
         | 
         | PPS: It is much less amusing to attempt to read the gmail
         | user's responses on a terminal.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Surprisingly, as I discovered earlier today, Gmail (still?
           | newly?) supports sending plaintext-only messages!
        
             | Suzuran wrote:
             | Really? How?
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | "Plain text mode", hiding in the "kebab menu" (i.e. the
               | three vertically stacked dots) on the bottom of the
               | message composition window. It even seems to stay on as a
               | default once activated!
               | 
               | Very useful for the few times I actually need to send
               | email to mailing lists with strong opinions about
               | newfangled MIME multipart messages :)
        
               | Suzuran wrote:
               | Yes, that's very useful, thanks for pointing that out.
        
       | timthorn wrote:
       | > The little black book of the internet
       | 
       | The article doesn't mention the Coloured Book protocols, but I'm
       | pretty sure this phrasing isn't accidental:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured_Book_protocols
        
         | gnufx wrote:
         | Red book was particularly interesting (modulo lack of security)
         | long before "the Grid"; it worked between various computer
         | centres.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | While it could be, "little black book" commonly refers to an
         | address book, and has since long before the internet. While
         | it's hard to established when it became a _commonly understood_
         | term for that, -as it was used in a more general sense before
         | that, and often simply referred to small notebooks -, it has
         | seen use to refer to address books since _at least_ the 19th
         | century[1]. (EDIT: It 's also mentioned in Aretha Franklin's
         | "Runnin' Out of Fools[2] from 1964)
         | 
         | Also, now I feel _very_ old.  "Little black book" was an
         | ubiquitous term when I grew up, and so using the term would
         | just be a synonym to "address book" that nobody would think
         | twice about.
         | 
         | [1] E.g. The House and Home: A Practical Book - Volume 1
         | (1896): "And there is a little black book with red lettering
         | seen on every writing-table and carriage-cushion wherein
         | puzzled mater-familias finds her bearings annually among her
         | cherished acquaintances, many of whom the little black book
         | alone keeps in her recollection!"
         | 
         | [2] Guess you got back (Guess you got) To my name (To my name)
         | In your little black book
        
           | timthorn wrote:
           | > "Little black book" was an ubiquitous term when I grew up,
           | and so using the term would just be a synonym to "address
           | book" that nobody would think twice about.
           | 
           | Indeed, I'm aware of that meaning and its ubiquity. But
           | amongst UK university computing staff at that time, knowledge
           | of the Coloured Books was as embedded. Remember that JANET
           | network addresses were the other way round, so rather than
           | cam.ac.uk it used to be uk.ac.cam - the author of this piece
           | will have been well aware of the double meaning.
           | 
           | It's that double meaning that gives the headline it's precise
           | relevance and a dash of humour.
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | I don't see why the order makes any difference with respect
             | to the use of the term, nor do I get from description what
             | you think is humorous about it.
             | 
             | It still reads to me like just a synonym for "address book"
             | to refer to a mapping.
        
               | timthorn wrote:
               | The order of the addresses was linked to the Coloured
               | Books and needed translation to interwork with SMTP, and
               | eventually the users needed to change their addresses.
               | The point being, that anyone involved in UK scientific
               | computing will have been aware of the UK protocols - many
               | will have been involved in their creation and
               | maintenance.
               | 
               | The humour comes from a (non-risque) double entendre.
        
       | sourraspberry wrote:
       | Time-sharing is interesting. The same kind of thing is happening
       | now with AI.
        
       | gnufx wrote:
       | The trouble was that it was quite unclear to a researcher, even
       | in one of the research council networking hubs, how to get access
       | to the gateway, and it may have cost. I gave up trying before
       | going to work in Oak Ridge for the summer (where I was taken
       | aback by the primitive computing, at least "outside the fence").
       | For some time (mid-80s to early 90s? I don't remember) we were
       | generally dependent on the infamous BITNET email gateway to
       | communicate with the rest of the world from the well-developed UK
       | network. It was "interesting" to deal with code in a Swedish
       | 6-bit character set sent through the EBCDIC gateway to ISO
       | 646-GB. (The Fortran Hollerith formats were added interest...)
        
       | nxobject wrote:
       | The most hilari-depressing part of the story was the funding
       | politics and grantwriting headaches that have never changed:
       | 
       | - the NPL couldn't set up a British inter-network because of
       | pressure from GPO;
       | 
       | - they couldn't connect to ARPA via Norway because of the Foreign
       | Office;
       | 
       | - then, UCL couldn't get funding from SERC;
       | 
       | - then, UCL couldn't get funding from DTI because it didn't have
       | industrial interest (although, to be fair, it was the department
       | of "industry")...
       | 
       | ...and then nearly a decade later government bodies were trying
       | to take it over.
       | 
       | (It looks like the IMP/TIP was literally funded by petty-ish
       | PSPSPS that the NPL superintendent could get his hands on without
       | further approval. To be fair, GPO did fund the link to Oslo.)
        
         | mhandley wrote:
         | Peter once told me that in 1973, the only two organizations
         | permitted to do telecommunications were the Post Office and the
         | Ministry of Defense. So to legally connect UCL to the ARPAnet,
         | he needed an exception clause. Somehow he got both the Post
         | Office and the Ministry of Defense to sign off that they were
         | not interested in computer-to-computer communications, in
         | perpetuity, so that UCL could do so instead. He said he never
         | tried to hold them to it later.
        
         | Full_Clark wrote:
         | Spot on. Would be interesting to see what sort of hoops you'd
         | have to jump through in an academic lab today to secure similar
         | money.
         | 
         | That 5k GPB in 1973 is 77k in today's pound, or about 95k USD
         | at current exchange rates.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | Every time I have a meeting with government, especially
         | regulatory agencies about getting something done, it isn't easy
         | because these words have very different meanings, which can
         | lead you into bad places quickly:
         | 
         | support - engineer means "compatible, works with" govt means
         | "aiding a cause"
         | 
         | business rules - engineer means logic, govt means literal rules
         | that have force of law
         | 
         | If you want to get results, you have to be really careful - if
         | you say you are supporting something, the govt people may think
         | you are aiding a cause they or whoever appointed them oppose.
         | If you talk about rules, govt people assume a 2 year fight,
         | expensive process, and lots of hearings - so it gets weird.
        
       | ChildOfChaos wrote:
       | Peter Kirstein died in January 2020, likely around the time when
       | the internet finally reached Wales.
       | 
       | Context: https://x.com/vizcomic/status/457192728770510848
        
       | mhandley wrote:
       | I worked for Peter Kirstein for many years - he always had
       | wonderful stories to tell.
       | 
       | In the article Peter talks about the temporary import license for
       | the original ARPAnet equipment. The delayed VAT and duty bill for
       | this gear prevented anyone else taking over the UK internet in
       | the early days because the bill would have then become due. But
       | he didn't mention that eventually if the original ARPAnet
       | equipment was ever scrapped, the bill would also become due.
       | 
       | When I was first at UCL in the mid 1980s until well into the 90s,
       | all that equipment was stored disused in the mens toilets in the
       | basement. Eventually Peter decided someone had to do something
       | about it, but he couldn't afford the budget to ship all this gear
       | back to the US. Peter always seemed to delight in finding
       | loopholes, so he pulled some strings. Peter was always very well
       | connected - UCL even ran the .int and nato.int domains for a long
       | time. So, at some point someone from UCL drove a truck full of
       | obsolete ARPAnet gear to some American Air Force base in East
       | Anglia that was technically US territory. Someone from the US air
       | force gave them a receipt, and the gear was officially exported.
       | And there it was left, in the US Air Force garbage. Shame it
       | didn't end up in a museum, but that would have required paying
       | the VAT bill.
        
         | nxobject wrote:
         | If only it could have disappeared into a vault until now... the
         | bill could have been inflated away!
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | I had the great fortune to work at UCL in the early 1980s, just
       | as SATNET came to an end as a project. I worked on what became
       | ISODE, and related stuff as well as doing operations bits and
       | pieces. I was far too junior to figure in Peter's planning but I
       | will say, he was a very interesting HoD: he didn't suffer fools
       | gladly (and I am one) but at the same time could be quite
       | forgiving, if you were at least entertaining about your
       | foolishness.
       | 
       | His most preferred model of funding work was to have 9/10ths of
       | it done or a sure-fure thing, and then use the funding to work on
       | the next idea, so he was guaranteed to have goods to deliver at
       | the end of the project. He didn't always carry it off but when it
       | worked it was superlative. I was on at least one OSI (protocol)
       | project with 6 partners across industry and research in Europe,
       | and the work was very unequal. That said, very fine dinners. I
       | have fond memories of INRIA canteen food having wine and fresh
       | fruit. UCL had baked beans and pies, the staff club had the same
       | baked beans and pies but you could eat them under a superb
       | Stanley Spenser oil painting of the resurrection.
       | 
       | The first Cisco Router turned up one day, it had annoyingly noisy
       | fans which blew air a useless direction compared to the rest of
       | the racks. As Mark Handley has pointed out below the basement was
       | full of trash: a fantastic Prism-wedge shaped digital copying
       | stand used with the British Library to photograph rare works, and
       | an unbelievably expensive CCD digital camera attached gathering
       | dust, a BBN Butterfly (it was a heap of crap frankly) running
       | pre-BGP routing, a BLIT terminal and depraz mouse, the first Dec
       | and Sun workstations.
       | 
       | We ran a project with the slade school of art doing digital arts
       | design with them, lovely people. I still have some of the reject
       | works.
       | 
       | Peter liked inviting people to come and be at UCL. During my time
       | Bob Braden (SATNET) was there, and Mike Lesk (UUCP) -and they
       | were also very nice and approachable. Tiny tea-room, I caused a
       | kurfuffle washing out the most disgustingly stained coffee mug
       | there, the owner of which was bulding the patina both to see how
       | thick it got, and to discourage others from using his cup.
       | 
       | Peter had one standing rule you did NOT break: If there was an
       | inter-departmental meeting with the people from ULCC (at that
       | time down at Lambs Conduit St) he expected you to "vote against"
       | any proposal they brought to the table without question:
       | Departmental politics ran deep.
       | 
       | Peter was a committed skier, he was hardly young when I got there
       | and he was still avidly visiting the alps as often as possible.
       | 
       | UCL ran the gateway from JANET (X.25 based non internet) to the
       | ARPANet which required you to login to a unix jump host and use
       | kermit to connect across, and lodge FTP requests using JANET
       | "grey book" FTP protocol to talk to the FTP client through a
       | conversion script. The gateway got hacked every now and then.
       | Some of us were a bit unkind and said it used Kermit because
       | Peter, who was somewhat small, frog-like and had thick glasses he
       | peered through, appreciated the joke that he was Kermit
       | personified.
        
       | msla wrote:
       | Here's a debunking and a history of the myth the ARPANET/Internet
       | was designed to survive nuclear war:
       | 
       | http://9ol.es/nuclear-myth.html
       | 
       | A bit more:
       | 
       | https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/15035/did-the-co...
        
       | Its_Padar wrote:
       | > (2018)
       | 
       | I'm pretty sure the article is more recent than that... After
       | some searching I found the Conversation's RSS feed for
       | technology[1] which says it was 2025 after searching the page for
       | "internet" and looking through the results
       | <id>tag:theconversation.com,2011:article/45404</id>
       | <published>2025-01-08T16:44:10Z</published>
       | <updated>2025-01-08T16:44:10Z</updated>         <link
       | rel="alternate" type="text/html"
       | href="https://theconversation.com/how-britain-got-its-first-
       | internet-connection-by-the-late-pioneer-who-created-the-first-
       | password-on-the-internet-45404"/>         <title>How Britain got
       | its first internet connection - by the late pioneer who created
       | the first password on the internet</title>
       | 
       | [1] https://theconversation.com/uk/technology/articles.atom
        
         | pxeger1 wrote:
         | The preface says it was originally written "a few years before
         | [the author] died", but never published (until now - having
         | been (re)edited), so the (2018) makes sense.
        
         | lproven wrote:
         | > I'm pretty sure the article is more recent than that
         | 
         | You seem to be confusing the date it was written with the date
         | it was published.
         | 
         | I believe there are multiple works where that interval is over
         | 50 years. I would not be surprised if a gap of a century has
         | been surpassed.
        
       | justinl33 wrote:
       | let's thank him for making some absolutely god-mode architectural
       | calls (protocol layering, manufacturer agnosticism, etc.)
        
       | ryao wrote:
       | I really hope cable management has improved at LLNL since the 70s
       | when that picture was taken.
        
       | DrBazza wrote:
       | > he was prevented from extending his project outside the lab by
       | pressure from the British Post Office, which then held a monopoly
       | on telecommunications.
       | 
       | The UK and telecoms don't make a happy pairing - we always seem
       | to do the wrong thing:
       | 
       | https://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost...
       | 
       | Dr Cochrane knew that Britain's tired copper network was
       | insufficient: "In 1974 it was patently obvious that copper wire
       | was unsuitable for digital communication in any form, and it
       | could not afford the capacity we needed for the future."
       | 
       | He was asked to do a report on the UK's future of digital
       | communication and what was needed to move forward.
       | 
       | "In 1979 I presented my results," he tells us, "and the
       | conclusion was to forget about copper and get into fibre. So BT
       | started a massive effort - that spanned in six years - involving
       | thousands of people to both digitise the network and to put fibre
       | everywhere. The country had more fibre per capita than any other
       | nation.
       | 
       | "In 1986, I managed to get fibre to the home cheaper than copper
       | and we started a programme where we built factories for
       | manufacturing the system. By 1990, we had two factories, one in
       | Ipswich and one in Birmingham, where were manufacturing
       | components for systems to roll out to the local loop".
        
         | Ylpertnodi wrote:
         | BT let me off a PS2,000 bill 'cus my dialer.exe got hijacked
         | and I was calling a Seychelles premium line. I'd turned off the
         | sound on my 56k? modem and didn't spot the extremely long beeps
         | and boops. That's what got me started on basic security...zone
         | alarm (pre-shitty-ness), proxomitron, hosts files (and other
         | blocking lists/ banner blockers), autoexec.bat to delete
         | histories, being caught out by dark patterns etc. Fun
         | times....'cus the internet was fun at the time, too. Nowadays,
         | despite a trove of bookmarks, I visit very, very, very few new-
         | to-me sites.
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | The story has it all. Government stupidity and shortsightedness.
       | Nonsensical self-harming bureaucracy. A plucky, persistent,
       | woefully underfunded Brit who eventually succeeded in spite of
       | the state.
        
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