[HN Gopher] Software is eating the world, all right (2024)
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       Software is eating the world, all right (2024)
        
       Author : pegasus
       Score  : 159 points
       Date   : 2025-01-06 18:28 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | When Marc said this quote, the undercurrent was "We are taking
       | control." This aligns with what the write describes. The goal is
       | to maximize economic gains while providing as little as possible
       | using automation and technology.
       | 
       | Edit: economic gains == wealth == control for the purposes of
       | this discussion imho.
        
         | datadrivenangel wrote:
         | Not economic gains. Wealth extraction. Provide just as much
         | value as needed to squeeze out the super majority of the new
         | value, maybe less.
         | 
         | Edit: We violently agree!
        
         | pdfernhout wrote:
         | The goal goes even further -- to privatize economic gains (e.g.
         | advertising revenues, SaaS revenues) while socializing costs
         | and risks (e.g. increasing social divisiveness by stoking
         | outrage, increasing poor self-image by comparisons with
         | carefully curated images by others, increasing obesity by
         | always getting people to think about processed food, increasing
         | depression rates by face-to-face social isolation, addiction to
         | dopamine hits by hijacking the startle/novelty attention
         | reflex, increasing financial distress by retail therapy, not
         | paying a fair living wage to gig workers so they are
         | essentially mining their cars and wardrobe and health and
         | skills without replenishing them, loss of privacy by being
         | tracked everywhere online, loss of security from identity theft
         | from careless exposure of collected information, the potential
         | for poorly-regulated hyper-competitive superhuman AI destroying
         | human society as we know it, and so on).
         | 
         | Marshall Brain's Manna shows two options for how all this may
         | end: https://marshallbrain.com/manna
        
       | turtleyacht wrote:
       | Author is Jean-Jacques Dubray, creator of State Action Model
       | (SAM) [1], since retired as of this post.
       | 
       | [1] http://sam.js.org/
        
         | fundad wrote:
         | I searched to find out what restaurants he owned. It looks like
         | the harsh realities of operating restaurants urged him to
         | incorporate a company to make RESTAURANT MANAGEMENT SOLUTION
         | SERVICES because of course.
         | 
         | https://www.bizofwa.com/co/cognitive-fab-llc
        
       | kspacewalk2 wrote:
       | The author lost me when he ranted about Google and Yelp reviews.
       | Like, completely. There's nothing wrong with reviews saying
       | servers are "sweet". This has nothing to do with candy and is a
       | synonym for kind and/or attentive. Also, when customers 'use
       | words like "clueless and absent" when talking about a twenty-
       | year-old African-American women', it is the author of the
       | article, not the author of the review, who needlessly and
       | bizarrely brought race into the conversation. Is this guy kidding
       | on both counts or what's his deal there, I genuinely don't know.
       | 
       | Perhaps the author's businesses aren't rated as highly as
       | competitors in the neighbourhood, which must be because of
       | sociopath reviewers, platform-related Reasons, and not (for
       | example) a difference in customer service and/or quality.
        
         | exitb wrote:
         | What's important though is that we can discuss the
         | appropriateness, but it doesn't matter at all. We can't bend
         | the rules either way, they've been arbitrarily set by someone
         | else.
        
           | kspacewalk2 wrote:
           | The recent resurgence of Bluesky would suggest that, on one
           | of the article's main points about
           | civility/toxicity/moderation, arbitrarily set rules can lead
           | to an exodus and migration to greener pastures. Same is true
           | of the author's own actions, e.g. with the payments provider.
           | So while you cannot change a company, you can often just
           | change companies.
           | 
           | If there's a better system for reviewing businesses than
           | Google Maps, by all means, I'll try it out, but the
           | information it gives me as a customer (often, even if not
           | always, and with all other possible caveats) is too valuable
           | for me to simply stop using. Otherwise, the information
           | asymmetry is a nearly complete one, unless I rely on personal
           | recommendations, which is very often not feasible. It has
           | served me _very_ well for what, 12-15 years now? I 'll take
           | the occasional sociopath review, those are more rare than
           | insinuated in the article anyway.
        
             | avgDev wrote:
             | Google reviews have been absolute miss for me.
             | 
             | A lot of car dealerships have high reviews in my area and
             | were absolute garbage. There is no way they are not gaming
             | it.
             | 
             | I've had similar experience with doctors. So much that I
             | started using word of mouth again and asking physicians I
             | trust for referrals.
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | The person you're responding to is talking about
               | restaurants. You're talking about doctors and car
               | dealerships.
        
               | rezonant wrote:
               | The original article was focused on restaurants, this sub
               | thread focuses on Google reviews in general, and the
               | person you are talking about never mentioned restaurants
               | at all
        
         | rozap wrote:
         | I regularly frequent fantastic small businesses there there are
         | a handful of 1 star reviews from angry internet people. Pre-
         | Covid, my favorite local banh mi place had a 1 star review that
         | described the woman who ran the place as angry and hard to
         | understand (because, I can only assume, her english was heavily
         | accented). But in reality she was the nicest old lady and was
         | so happy when I came back after a few months because our office
         | moved. And I've been to 4.9 star places that could only
         | generously be described as mid. Obviously this is all
         | anecdotal, but it also seems to be a nearly universal
         | experience among my peers. Rage baiting, Yelp's blatant
         | extortion of establishments to get rid of bad reviews, and all
         | the other little tricks described in the article are purely due
         | to these awful companies optimizing their perverse KPIs, like a
         | leech whose only KPI is quantity of blood sucked.
         | 
         | I was a true believer in a lot of this stuff 15 years ago, but
         | from where I sit now I really agree with OP.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _a handful of 1 star reviews from angry internet people_
           | 
           | My favourite category of 1-star reviews are those left at
           | obviously fine dining establishments praising the food and
           | service but one starring due to price. (Same category:
           | excellent food truck food, unbelievable value, one star
           | because there wasn't enough seating or the water came in a
           | plastic cup.)
        
           | stopping wrote:
           | This is a particular banh mi place in South Bay isn't it?
           | I've been there dozens of times and seen the reviews you're
           | referring to. For similar reasons I completely ignore all
           | review scores because gamification ruins all signal. Same
           | with the chaff driven by SEO. Synthetic information is way
           | easier to produce than organic information, which means it's
           | always going to be a losing battle over the long term.
        
             | rozap wrote:
             | No this was a place in the international district of
             | downtown Seattle. It's not there anymore unfortunately.
             | 
             | But yea I'm right there with you. I ignore reviews now.
        
           | whoknowsidont wrote:
           | >Yelp's blatant extortion of establishments to get rid of bad
           | reviews
           | 
           | Yelp has never done this. I have no idea how this myth has
           | persisted this long.
        
       | runningmike wrote:
       | Great post! "The "digital revolution" is financially corrupt,
       | morally bankrupt, and appears more and more every day like a
       | parasite on its way to killing its host. Yep, Software is eating
       | the world, all right." Applies to a lot of AI develpments too
       | imho. Only a same that this post is on the closed medium
       | platform....
        
         | oezi wrote:
         | I think Anti-Trust actions or large scale technological
         | revolutions is the only way we can reclaim some competition in
         | the digital space. The digital monopolies are really a cancer
         | of our modern age.
        
           | nixpulvis wrote:
           | How do we make this actually happen though? I've been saying
           | this for nearly a decade, but I lack a proper outlet.
        
           | plagiarist wrote:
           | Yeah but they have regulatory captured our government so I
           | don't see that changing soon.
        
       | ozymandias8 wrote:
       | > My best advice to a hiring manager is to check the reviews
       | written by your future hires, you will have direct visibility
       | into how they will perform in your organization and how toxic or
       | emphatic they will be.
       | 
       | Brilliant. Have any hiring managers done this and uncovered red
       | flags?
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Have any hiring managers done this and uncovered red flags?_
         | 
         | Yes. One of our juniors found a candidate's Yelp page. The
         | level of awfulness on display there almost had me wondering if
         | it was caricature.
         | 
         | (If you're a founder, this works for VCs, too.)
        
           | tarunkotia wrote:
           | I will not be surprised if there is _call for startup_ to
           | build this exact thing :P
        
       | sydbarrett74 wrote:
       | I resonate with Dubray's sentiments. Maybe it's because I just
       | turned 50 and am more contemplative at the half-century mark, but
       | I feel anymore like I'm playing a part in peddling schlock and
       | snake oil. Our industry is increasingly selling products that are
       | extractive and zero-sum as opposed to being the tide that lifts
       | all boats. Was I always living a lie in a way, or have things
       | truly become qualitatively worse over the past 10 or 15 years?
        
         | rozap wrote:
         | I've been reflecting over the past year or so about this. And
         | I'm also stuck with the same thoughts. Was I just dumb 15 years
         | ago, or did the industry actually shift? Or a little of both?
         | 
         | imo society also had a different view of these sorts of snake
         | oil salesmen, so it was easier to fall into the collective
         | hallucination. Remember when the movie "the social network"
         | came out, the movie portrayed zucc as kind of an asshole, but
         | also a hero - there was a sort of righteousness, and people
         | loved him. The "very special boy" who cheekily breaks a few
         | rules in order to build something that is wildly popular and
         | disruptive...and this was something to live up to? But now I
         | think, in general, we've seen that most of these very special
         | boys are actually quite shit.
        
           | jochem9 wrote:
           | 15 years ago we didn't have so many algorithms. I think
           | Facebook still sorted by recent back then.
           | 
           | The pervasiveness of algorithms is a symptom of the change
           | that has happened. It shows how companies started to compete
           | more and more for our attention and engagement.
        
             | hibikir wrote:
             | At one point, a company makes changes to just get users,
             | and that makes it have to do things people want. Eventually
             | the growth opportunity by utility gets very small, so all
             | the efforts come from increasing profitability per user.
             | That will rarely make the company's products better for
             | their users. Every top company moved to increasing margins
             | and minimal growth years ago.
        
             | the_snooze wrote:
             | I think "algorithms" disguises something bigger: a broad
             | ethos to extract value from users, instead of delivering
             | value to them. Modern consumer tech sees end-users as
             | resources to exploit. Between privacy violations, vendor
             | lock-in, worsening functionality and interoperability, and
             | unilaterally changing terms and designs, these services
             | demonstrate so much contempt for the people who've come to
             | rely on them.
             | 
             | Instead of making things better, tech companies use their
             | engineering prowess to impose control over people and
             | reduce end-users' agency.
        
               | BlueTemplar wrote:
               | And people _have_ been warning about these issues back
               | then already : this is what  "protocols, not platforms"
               | was about.
               | 
               | (Corporations seeking monopoly is not a new story.)
        
             | Zak wrote:
             | Algorithms aren't inherently bad. An algorithm that keeps
             | spam out of my email is pretty great if it works. An
             | algorithm that presents a feed of things I actually want to
             | see is also pretty great. I want to see life updates from
             | my friends and family, especially media of their pets, but
             | not sports, babies, or politics except from a couple people
             | who write interesting things.
             | 
             | That's not a tall order for a recommendation algorithm with
             | a huge supply of training data. It wouldn't even need a 50%
             | hit rate to make something really useful that I would
             | definitely check once or twice a day and post or comment
             | several times a week if even a third of my real life social
             | circle used it.
             | 
             | An algorithm that presents me a feed of things I sometimes
             | can't look away from even though I don't really want to see
             | them is harmful, like an addictive drug.
        
           | foobarian wrote:
           | > The "very special boy" who cheekily breaks a few rules in
           | order to build something that is wildly popular and
           | disruptive...and this was something to live up to?
           | 
           | I think examples like this (also see Bill Gates) were more
           | inspiring because there was an idea that you could get at
           | least some smaller scale of that kind of success with a
           | modicum of talent, hard work, and luck. You would look around
           | your high school class and there would be one or two "whiz
           | kids" who everybody knew would go on to do great things. The
           | role of computers was not widespread yet and there seemed
           | countless possibilities for computers to make life better.
           | Instead of writing numbers by hand into a ledger and adding
           | on a mechanical calculator, you would use a spreadsheet type
           | of thing.
           | 
           | I think what changed is the efficiency of the successes.
           | Success means extraction at largest possible scale, such that
           | there is no more room for one or two whiz kids from every
           | single high school class. There is room for 1 whiz kid per
           | generation; and chances are that guy will need to be a greedy
           | asshole to make it to the top. And then the very nature of
           | this extraction means, now that the productivity gains have
           | plateaued, that resources are taken from the poor and given
           | to the rich.
           | 
           | Sorry to be a downer, I'll see myself back to my bottle. :-D
        
           | nuancebydefault wrote:
           | In fact Zuck _was_ a hero back then, as was Elon.
           | 
           | People with power tend to change. With being in power, their
           | perspective on the world shifts, often for the worse.
           | 
           | Zuck originally wanted fully free speech, this is in fact
           | what everyone wanted in that time. Then appeared the massive
           | abuse in the unavoidable echo chambers. Zuck was hence forced
           | to be the judge between good and bad speech/content, up to
           | being in court. The filtering had to happen with advanced
           | algorithms since fully manual was impossible to pull off. The
           | funding happened by advertising, so the move to algorithms
           | upping engagement was only logical.
           | 
           | Elon on the other hand went all the way from the nerd being
           | bullied at the playground, via the acceleration of electrical
           | transport, up to buying the world's biggest software
           | playground and obtaining a large part of world's
           | communication and transport hardware infrastructure. He's
           | more convinced than ever of the power of capitalism, for the
           | good and the bad.
        
             | estebank wrote:
             | > Elon on the other hand went all the way from the nerd
             | being bullied at the playground
             | 
             | Elon wasn't bullied. He was pushed down a flight of stairs
             | by one kid after Elon made fun of that kid's father's
             | suicide.
        
               | nuancebydefault wrote:
               | We were not at the site when it happened. I only recall
               | the various sources that I read and try to make a
               | consistent/plausible model and narrative. I never met
               | Elon nor Zuck in person.
        
               | estebank wrote:
               | I wasn't there, but the source is elon's father.
        
           | c0balt wrote:
           | > the movie portrayed zucc as kind of an asshole, but also a
           | hero
           | 
           | The word/ genre is a protagonist as antihero. An antihero is
           | nice in fiction, we sympathize with them to some degree over
           | their flaws and challenges. The problem is that a billionaire
           | very much has an outsized impact.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Things have definitely gotten worse. I view SaaS subscriptions
         | as the primary culprit. Even here on HN, most "side-projects"
         | are attempts at recurring revenue through paid subscriptions
         | instead of contributing to the sharing economy (which nearly
         | all software is built from in terms of languages and
         | libraries).
        
           | billy99k wrote:
           | "Even here on HN, most "side-projects" are attempts at
           | recurring revenue through paid subscriptions instead of
           | contributing to the sharing economy (which nearly all
           | software is built from in terms of languages and libraries)."
           | 
           | Shared libraries generally don't make money. HN has always
           | been about startups and making products/services.
           | 
           | I predicted this would happen decades ago. Piracy was
           | accepted in the tech community and became so widespread, it
           | made it nearly impossible to make a living selling the
           | software anymore, so businesses made their move when Internet
           | speeds got faster and now make everything into a service
           | (that can't be pirated).
        
             | Zak wrote:
             | HN was briefly called "Startup News".
             | 
             | I remember the popular prediction of software going
             | service-based, probably delivered via a web browser or
             | something like one in the late 1990s and being disturbed at
             | the prospect of being unable to pirate things. How else was
             | I going to get software as a broke teenager?
        
         | devjab wrote:
         | I think parts of our industry has gotten worse, but I also
         | think there are a lot of opportunities to do some really great
         | (and fun) work. I work in the green energy industry and I like
         | working with software for solar plant equipment. I hope I can
         | eventually pick up a little more on the electrical engineering
         | side of things and get into farming robots.
         | 
         | Don't get me wrong, I also do work in the financial aspects of
         | it and that'... Well, useless is too strong a word, but in the
         | grand scheme of things it's frankly useless. There is so much
         | ridiculous leglislation that can be digitized, some of it is
         | stupid. Like how you can get various tax benefits if you split
         | what you and I think of as a single solar farm into 100 smaller
         | companies. How to game the various financial tariffs, how to
         | figure out the optimal direction for solar cells based on
         | market data. That sort of stuff. Then there is the reasonable
         | parts, like how Italy has an agency which requires all money
         | transactions to go through them as an anti-mafia thing (sorry I
         | can't be more clear on that part I didn't make it). Over all
         | though, it's fun to work with stuff that has a real world use.
        
           | magnuspaaske wrote:
           | In Denmark the electricity price is calculated per hour for
           | consumers, allowing us to move tumble drying, dishwashing and
           | laundry to times, when it's cheaper to use power (= more
           | renewable energy in the grid). This obviously requires some
           | digital solutions to work and I think it's a great example
           | where digitalization drives value in other sectors (in this
           | case the power sector).
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | I don't have your answers, but it has been a very long time
         | that I lacked the enthusiasm you seem to have had.
         | 
         | I used to be hyped about the Internet in particular and
         | technology as a whole in the early to mid 2000s, before I
         | started to work professionally as a developer.
         | 
         | Ever since this illusion was shattered. I understood that
         | everyone was just interested in making money, lots of it and as
         | quickly as possible. There was no concern of how good something
         | would be for the world as whole, only a vague shrug on that of
         | something was successful it was inherently good.
         | 
         | I don't feel better or worse for it. _I know it 's a job but
         | someone's gotta do it_.
        
           | chillingeffect wrote:
           | In my career, engineering went from lucrative, upper middle
           | class to a potentially explosive wealth-building apparatus.
           | 
           | Once people became aware of that, they began to _strive_ for
           | it. Far fewer people became content to live out a peaceful,
           | upper middle class life.
           | 
           | Their hunger for more created a subculture of grinding and
           | speculation. As the playing field grew feom office computers
           | to everyone's phones, the old school capitalists dove in and
           | catalyzed it all.
           | 
           | To the point where the wellbeing of our young, the
           | environment, the jobs we created- none if it mattered
           | anymore. The goal was to get perversely rich and dominate the
           | subculture, dissolving the real culture with it.
           | 
           | Can we ever get back on track?
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | I don't think it's always been this way. Perhaps capitalism is
         | destined to end up here eventually, but I think it's been
         | functional enough for most of our lives. I wouldn't even say it
         | got really bad until very recently, but that could change from
         | one person's perception to another's. I'm happy I got to live
         | most of my life in the era when it wasn't like this.
        
         | austin-cheney wrote:
         | When you write software is the thing you are writing something
         | you would ever want to pay for out of pocket even with inside
         | knowledge? The answer to that question determines the degree of
         | bullshit you are peddling.
         | 
         | As a JavaScript developer the answer about 90% of the time is I
         | would rather just write it myself. Exceptions include JellyFin,
         | PiHole, Node.js, Mealie, Libre Office, and some other things.
         | Those things are free, but I would buy I license if they
         | weren't. These things are exceptions not because they are big,
         | but because I am happy with the quality of product. They have
         | not given me cause to find a replacement. There is so much
         | software that I cannot say this for.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | The cure for that, for me, was easy (but sucked).
         | 
         | No one wanted to hire me, so I started writing software for
         | organizations that help people, for free.
         | 
         | I feel that my software Makes A Difference. It doesn't make
         | money, but it acts as a force multiplier, for people that help
         | people.
        
           | polishdude20 wrote:
           | How do you pay the bills?
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | I'm retired.
             | 
             | Fortunately, I had invested wisely, and live humbly, so I
             | can handle it.
             | 
             | The reason no one wants to hire me, is because I "aged out"
             | of the tech industry.
             | 
             | At 55, I was "radioactive."
             | 
             | I would have been happy to put in at least ten more years,
             | but c'est la vie...
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | Computers have inundated life so thoroughly now that it feels
         | less clean to be writing software. If people enjoy a 30 min TV
         | show you made that feels great, but if they are watching 10
         | hours of tv a day then it feels more problematic.
         | 
         | My personal relationship with phones/computers/tv has degraded
         | in the past 20 years as well, its hard to feel good about
         | building software when I am trying to cut computer/phone usage
         | out of my own life.
        
       | BrenBarn wrote:
       | It's a downward spiral. The only question is whether it's going
       | to destroy our society, or if people will have the will to
       | forcibly stop it before then. (I mean with, like, robustly
       | enforced laws that result in ruinous financial penalties against
       | companies that are built around creating harmful "disruption",
       | and against the individuals who run them.)
        
       | _DeadFred_ wrote:
       | I'm going to sound like an elitist ahole but this all worked so
       | much better when it was a small, self selecting group of users.
       | 
       | But the most disenfranchising part of all this is how quickly/how
       | willing tech people were to allow/promote/encourage awfulness and
       | destructiveness for $$$. I had such a different view of that
       | scene in the 90s/early 2000s. But the good news is we are self
       | reflecting and not happy with the current status quo. Hopefully
       | we don't settle for the 'hide in our gated community' discord
       | model but come up with something better.
        
         | throwiruriti wrote:
         | > how willing tech people
         | 
         | I find it disgusting how "tech people" are blamed for this. It
         | is like blaming plumbers in Pentagon for stuff in Iraq.
         | Management takes billions, there are politicians, judges, all
         | sorts of regulatory bodies...
         | 
         | Everyone is happy to ignore monopoly, get rich, grab more
         | power, and push their agenda. But we have to blame tech people!
        
           | tmtvl wrote:
           | I'd say its more like blaming soldiers, airmen, sailors,
           | marines,... for stuff in Iraq. If the plumbers in the
           | Pentagon stopped working the war could simply roll merrily
           | on, but if the cogs in the machine go on strike that's
           | another story.
        
         | nixpulvis wrote:
         | I used to think I'd be part of the solution, but I honestly
         | don't know where to apply pressure anymore. Go into policy? Go
         | into reporting? Wait decades to build my influence at a company
         | like Google? It all feels untenable.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | You have a sphere of influence which is a function of your
           | resources (your resources being the aggregate of fiat,
           | assets, your ability, your network, etc). Do good for those
           | who can fit within your sphere. Attempt to grow your sphere.
           | When you pass, you will have done what you can with what you
           | have for those you could. That is the most we can ask of
           | ourselves in the brief period in which we exist.
        
             | nixpulvis wrote:
             | I don't want to just be an influencer. I want to put in the
             | work actually fixing things. We don't have a shortage of
             | outrage and opinion, we have a lack of productive outlets
             | for these feelings.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Apologies, by influence I meant action or what you can
               | control, things you can do (not social influencer or
               | simply words). Helpful feedback, appreciate it.
               | 
               | "Take action people around you need."
        
               | nixpulvis wrote:
               | I get that, but I'm looking for more tangible advice. No
               | offense; what you're saying is generally good advice.
        
           | Clubber wrote:
           | I would suggest writing a FOSS solution to a proprietary
           | software system. FOSS is the great equalizer. It's hard to
           | compete with free.
           | 
           | EDIT: For concrete examples, see what the author complained
           | about, there are some good pain points to attack.
        
         | dogline wrote:
         | Isn't this is same lament as "Eternal September" when AOL
         | joined Usenet?
         | 
         | Not saying that you're wrong, but I'm not sure how to leverage
         | this fact for an improvement. Hacker News is good because it's
         | also a "self selecting group", and it won't be pretty if that
         | ever changes.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | Engineers have lost almost all our leverage. Even if you are a
         | top 20% engineer (which would make you very talented by 1990s
         | standards) you have limited employment opportunities. The
         | education system completely revamped itself and has been
         | cranking out CS grads. Engineers are no longer calling the
         | shots, big corps have the situation under their thumb again.
        
       | safog wrote:
       | Old man yells at cloud vibes. If these services were so devoid of
       | value, competitors will spring up and eat their lunch. Capitalism
       | still works. Silicon valley startups have made their money
       | disrupting broken customer experiences in basically every single
       | vertical. They are not immune from the same disruption.
        
         | surgical_fire wrote:
         | You are incredibly naive to think so. The companies behind
         | those services optimize only to make money, not to provide
         | better value to the users.
         | 
         | They only have to provide the minimum amount of value to keep
         | users hooked. Small competitors can be either bought or
         | smothered by your weight.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | On a long enough timeline, probably. But we're talking about
         | decades here. Are you content with things sucking horribly for
         | most of the duration of these cycles ?
         | 
         | And this also assumes that we are not moving to a different
         | kind of society (as posited by cyberpunk) : a much more stable
         | system, where corporations are able to capture enough power
         | that only whole society collapse events are able to get rid of
         | most of them.
        
       | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
       | > sure enough, they had closed us
       | 
       | This is the one that got me. We get takeout from a local
       | restaurant (not delivery: we live too far outside town for that)
       | and recently when I try to order online, it randomly tells me
       | that it's too late and tries to schedule my pickup for the next
       | day, even though the restaurant is still open for at least an
       | hour.
       | 
       | But if I call to place the order, they happily take it and
       | usually tell me that it'll be ready in 10-15 minutes.
       | 
       | Now I'm wondering if this is what's happening. It's weird,
       | because they don't seem to get a lot of takeout orders. Every
       | time I go there, the dining room is packed and usually my order
       | is the only one waiting for pickup.
        
         | rezonant wrote:
         | It might be due to this "feature", but there are a few
         | additional quirks to how the modern food delivery system works
         | for restaurants. First, it is not uncommon to restrict online
         | ordering based on busyness in the kitchen, and that would
         | include in person dining. They might still take orders by phone
         | call because the additional friction slows still slows down the
         | order velocity a lot. Second, a lot of restaurants operate _one
         | tablet per food app_, and it's very cumbersome to do this
         | (you'll see a wall with like 4-5 android tablets attached to
         | it). This invites human error, ie an employee may easily forget
         | to activate a service. This second part is slowly getting
         | better, though.
        
       | cjs_ac wrote:
       | I think software engineering is inherently a management job. When
       | you write code, you write company policy, but that policy isn't
       | followed by human employees, it's followed by electronic
       | employees - computers.
       | 
       | These electronic employees are very good at following very simple
       | instructions. They enable the business to handle enormous numbers
       | of customers concurrently, but those customers can only be
       | handled in the way that the software engineers planned for.
       | 
       | The author complains about businesses that operate two-sided
       | markets, which is an economic function traditionally handled by
       | governments. Governments imposed lots of regulations, but Uber,
       | DoorDash and their ilk decided to do away with all that. This
       | resulted in litanies of scandals, and the businesses rapidly
       | putting these poorly-implemented policies in place. It turns out
       | that all those regulations, accumulated over centuries, were
       | actually necessary to ensure that the markets functioned
       | properly. The wunderkind founders made their billions by burning
       | Chesterton's fences.
       | 
       | Generation Z, I understand, is increasingly abandoning dating
       | apps, because the apps aren't optimised for connecting their
       | users with compatible partners. If all the cool kids are finding
       | their relationships offline, then eventually it'll just be the
       | uncool looking for love on the internet (just like in the dial-up
       | days).
       | 
       | In a similar way, if it's too much of a pain in the arse to deal
       | with a delivery app, then some restaurants will stop dealing with
       | them, and rely on word of mouth. If every other restaurant is on
       | the delivery apps, then the restaurant that isn't on the apps
       | suddenly becomes the 'hidden gem', the place you hear about from
       | that colleague who likes to drop names to show everyone that
       | they're cool.
       | 
       | (On the other hand, if you're running the slightly-below-average
       | pizza place that people call when they can't be bothered to cook,
       | then you should probably be on the apps. This is a matter of
       | market positioning.)
        
         | 3739574849 wrote:
         | This seems like it breaks down when you consider a lot of the
         | regulations are ideological. Doordash was a better service
         | before regulation, and in it's most heavily regulated areas has
         | become both less accessible to aspiring workers and more
         | expensive for customers. The main lesson if anything seems to
         | be that there's little benefit to preemptively handicapping
         | yourself with that sort of thing because society will impose it
         | anyway.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | > ...Doordash was a better service before regulation, and in
           | it's most heavily regulated areas has become both less
           | accessible to aspiring workers and more expensive for
           | customers...
           | 
           | Maybe you're not totally wrong...but that statement almost
           | sounds like when a young person ventures off on their own to
           | get their very first apartment...and has a job that allows
           | them to afford only up to a maximum of USD$100 rent per month
           | (I'm using low figure for ease)...but then this same person
           | did not think to budget additional monthly costs like
           | electricity, water, heating, etc...and of course blows way
           | past their hard limit of $100/month....and then this same
           | person cries that they didn't know about facts of life like
           | paying for electricity, water, etc...or how businesses cry
           | because they didn't think that they might have to conform
           | with typical/normal regulations/costs of doing business and
           | such...and that *that unexpected cost** is what is ruining
           | them. ;-)
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | It's not management. It's lawmaking without any control.
         | Typical management can't blatantly defy laws because the public
         | will grow suspicions and law enforcement will eventually
         | intervene(or the public will in form of a violent uprising).
         | But law enforcement has little to no leverages against
         | software, which makes code law.
        
       | breadwinner wrote:
       | I agree with the author's sentiments, but it makes no sense that
       | it is directed at Marc Andreessen. He doesn't run any of the
       | companies mentioned, and he is not some emperor of the software
       | industry.
        
         | feznyng wrote:
         | He's an effective accelerationist which makes him a pretty good
         | figurehead to aim the rhetoric of this article at.
        
         | plagiarist wrote:
         | Venture capital demanding YoY growth in revenue is a major (if
         | not the major) driving force behind this person's complaints.
        
         | sangnoir wrote:
         | > He doesn't run any of the companies mentioned, and he is not
         | some emperor of the software industry.
         | 
         | ?! He's the longest-serving member on Meta's board, and is a
         | named partner at a prolific VC fund[1]. Maybe he's not _the_
         | emperor, but he 's at minimum, a duke and/or king-maker in
         | software industry nobility.
         | 
         | 1. https://a16z.com/portfolio/
        
       | buryat wrote:
       | We need to start going into the real world by delivering products
       | and technologies that we envisioned working in the actual real
       | world. People don't care that much about the Internet and how
       | much it all costs if you don't actually spend money because money
       | is a human construct and if no exchanges happen then it doesn't
       | exist. Spending money on building that next real future seems
       | like a good step forward.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Don't run a restaurant. Especially don't run a kitchen which
       | exists to fill orders controlled by someone else.
       | 
       | Nobody seems to want to start a dry cleaning shop. That's a
       | business with good margins, not too much capital investment, and
       | a low failure rate.
        
         | plagiarist wrote:
         | Wait, really? Dry cleaning? How do I get started?
        
       | petermcneeley wrote:
       | Just the tiniest tip of a megalithic iceberg.
        
       | carlosjobim wrote:
       | The author has needs a cure for his soul. (The cure is humility)
       | 
       | It's just the typical story of the person who is successful in
       | his/her field and then decides to "retire" into the hospitality
       | business. And when he fails he blames everybody else and twists
       | himself into confused insinuations about racism and sexism thrown
       | out against the void. Or against a guy named Marc.
       | 
       | "I was the server that day, and even though from the height of my
       | Ph.D. and a half, I like to be the best server I can be..."
       | 
       | That quote confirmed the suspicion I had about the author before
       | I reached it.
       | 
       | As for hating on Google Maps: Your business has to ask to be on
       | Google Maps and you can remove yourself from there if you want.
       | The same with all other platforms. No restaurant is forced to
       | have anything to do with these digital platforms.
       | 
       | Complaining about customers not tipping... It's your restaurant,
       | you can pay your staff more if you want to.
       | 
       | The entire article bears the mark of a nervous breakdown from a
       | hectic industry with a guy who doesn't understand his business in
       | the middle of it. The customers aren't perverts for writing in a
       | review that their waiter was "sweet". My grandmother is also
       | sweet. The customers aren't mean for not being happy with their
       | service from "a twenty-year-old African-American women" as the
       | author puts it.
       | 
       | Hospitality is a cutthroat industry which demands experience and
       | skill if you want to own your own business, just like any other
       | occupation. If you're "retiring" into it, be prepared to loose
       | your money and your time to live your dream. And the money you
       | borrow from relatives and spouses.
        
         | larodi wrote:
         | It is the bias that being good at computing automatically gives
         | you an advantage with somebody else's algorithms. Or that they
         | see you better as one of their own.
         | 
         | After being successful in IT one thinks one can approach
         | arbitrary areas of snail mail life better than the rest, but
         | it's more complicated than that.
         | 
         | Having have the rare opportunity to fail in a way the author
         | write about I can relate the feeling, but no Marc can unwind
         | where we are and it needs solid ideologies to change the status
         | quo. This not a green field anymore in many areas and
         | particularly with who gets peoples' attention.
        
       | robocat wrote:
       | A pointless rant about business policies: nothing in the article
       | was specific to software.
       | 
       | Complaints in order: subscription pricing; automatically
       | preventing orders to minimize cancelled orders; an algorithm that
       | will make the [door]dashers angry at the business owners; the
       | geniuses at Google and Yelp [with a] review system designed to
       | encourage any sociopath to smash businesses at will.
       | 
       | The whole article tries to blame software, however the article is
       | actually about how businesses design poor interactions and how
       | businesses sometimes make poor tradeoffs.
       | 
       | He even mentions a few examples when businesses fix the problems
       | - as though that is a bad thing. 20/20 hindsight of the perfect
       | armchair critic.
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | The problem must be in impenetrable nature of software to regular
       | people, in conjunction with that software automation affects
       | everyone.
       | 
       | I always thought that the fact that no judges and/or law makers
       | and/or enforcement officials can realistically read software is
       | extremely dangerous, and will, long term, completely remove rules
       | of law from societies. If an engineer decides a judge can be
       | deplatformed, they can, and while the platform company would have
       | internal consistency processes, ultimately it's up to good will
       | of members of the same exclusionary in-group of software
       | engineers to undo it(unless JDAM is going to be an option).
       | 
       | I don't think there are many such impactful yet (although for
       | technical reasons rather than favoritism) as exclusionary fields
       | as the field of software. That must be why and how software is
       | eating the world - not software becoming a first class citizen of
       | a modern society.
        
       | ozim wrote:
       | Way I understand Andersen by software eating the world - you
       | either become a software company so people pay you or you pay to
       | software companies. So author is right basically that's
       | extraction or in case of review systems even extortion I would
       | say. It sucks just like article describes.
        
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