[HN Gopher] GPON FTTH networks (in)security (2016)
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       GPON FTTH networks (in)security (2016)
        
       Author : pabs3
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2025-01-05 03:24 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pierrekim.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pierrekim.github.io)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | I've always thought access should be controlled on the ISP side,
       | similar to how the telco can connect or disconnect your local
       | loop from their property.
        
         | sleepy_keita wrote:
         | PON uses passive splitters to allow multiple access -- you
         | can't disconnect a fibre at the office without also taking down
         | the neighborhood you're sharing the physical fibre with. The
         | article, as I understand it, is how it's trivial to bruteforce
         | other sessions once you have root in the ONU.
        
           | moe4joey wrote:
           | Fiber can be connected at the PON usually, a lot of FTTH
           | providers use splitters that are in a neighborhood. This is
           | never done, for obvious reasons (usually the ONT is just set
           | to a "locked" state if someone doesn't pay).
           | 
           | I'm not sure about how well these exploits would work on the
           | fiber ISP I used to work - most of the protections for "bad"
           | ONT behavior is related to the light (a laser being stuck on
           | or something else) in which case the ONT will throw an alarm
           | and be disconnected automatically and a technician usually
           | goes out and replaces it, restarts it, or they fix the fiber
           | itself.
           | 
           | There were some protections against malicious behavior as
           | well, but you could certainly tell the vendor designed much
           | more for physical issues with the ONT that could harm other
           | customers rather than someone hacking the ONT.
           | 
           | (AFAIK our ONTs didn't have an HTTP interface, but they were
           | a lot different than the ones mentioned in this write up and
           | were controlled via proprietary vendor software - still
           | interested to know if they were able to be owned like this)
        
             | matt-p wrote:
             | You have to assume an ont is rooted/third party when
             | designing pon, this is pure bad design nothing more.
             | 
             | OLT should inject vlans based on Mac/ID of the ONT+pon
             | port, the only real vulnerability in ones I've designed is
             | if someone on the same pon knows someone else's SN and
             | thier service was subscribed but ont unplugged.
        
         | simonjgreen wrote:
         | This is a fair observation, however practicalities get in the
         | way. It's labour intensive to disconnect and connect at Layer
         | 0. The way Access is usually controlled is the user will be
         | unable to authenticate their PPPOE session/receive a DHCP
         | assignment. Some ISPs will also authenticate but send them to a
         | walled garden. Most PON networks are deployed using
         | connectorised terminals so if there was a malicious or faulty
         | user that was not a paying customer, they could physically
         | disconnect them if they needed to without getting out the
         | splicing tools.
        
         | zokier wrote:
         | Doesn't that depend on where the network is demarcated, i.e. is
         | ONT/ONU considered to be on "ISP side"?
        
           | chaz6 wrote:
           | In the UK, we are tending towards separating the FNO (fiber
           | network owner) and the ISP. The larger FNO's will provide
           | wholesale access to multiple ISP's. There are some smaller
           | operators that are both FNO and ISP, but I am not aware of
           | any provider that combines the ONT and CPE, so they could
           | wholesale without having to replace hardware.
        
             | simonjgreen wrote:
             | I know of a few, they are using Ubiquiti, TP Link, and
             | Calix. They are however all small.
             | 
             | BTW, if you're in UK altnet scene are you in... the Slack?
        
       | RockRobotRock wrote:
       | If I shined a laser pointer through the fiber in my house, would
       | I DOS my neighbors?
        
         | Faaak wrote:
         | No
        
         | simonjgreen wrote:
         | Yes, this can happen with cheap/poor splitters upstream and/or
         | high power lasers of the correct frequency. Sending a regular
         | red laser up the fibre will likely do nothing, however I have
         | encountered ONUs that do not have particularly selective
         | receive optics. Sending a laser at 1310nm or 1490nm can cause
         | havoc.
        
       | ytch wrote:
       | https://github.com/Anime4000/RTL960x
       | 
       | The article reminds me this Github project, which using 3rd party
       | SFP ONU connecting internet with SLID, Model, SN and other
       | parameters.
        
       | simonjgreen wrote:
       | I think it's worth mentioning that this vulnerability really
       | exists when the ISP has not separated duties of the physical
       | devices well. Most PON networks do not use the ONU as a method of
       | deciding which service the user should receive. This is instead
       | usually defined by the PPPOE session and the characteristics sent
       | by the RADIUS server. Having zero upstream authentication beyond
       | an ONU serial number, if that, is poor and unusual network
       | design.
       | 
       | If you'd like to understand more about good Ethernet based
       | broadband network design, you should read the reference standard
       | TR-101. This evolved from TR-099 which was the old ATM/ADSL
       | standard.
        
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       (page generated 2025-01-05 23:02 UTC)