[HN Gopher] Documenting an 1115 ft radio tower climb
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Documenting an 1115 ft radio tower climb
Author : geerlingguy
Score : 136 points
Date : 2025-01-02 20:02 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
| tylerflick wrote:
| He sort of touched on this, but an aspect of tower rigging that
| most people don't think about is how long it can take to climb a
| tower when you are the first one up with the line. It's
| absolutely exhausting work.
|
| Another side fact, wasps are attracted to building nests on the
| towers for some reason. I never knew if it was all the EM
| radiation being put off or just the heat.
| aetherson wrote:
| Almost certainly the heat.
| Xenograph wrote:
| I don't think it's the heat, rather, the wasps seem attracted
| to the radio wave EM radiation. I'm not sure why, but I've
| seen it first hand when turning on high powered outdoor
| point-to-point WiFi antennas (eg. airMAX LiteBeam 5AC). The
| moment I connected the power, several wasps immediately began
| crowding around the antenna.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| The wasps are of similar size to the wavelengths of 5 Ghz
| RF frequencies. It seems plausible that they experience the
| absorbed energy quite differently.
|
| Maybe it's like a pleasant warmth from within and they just
| fly towards the direction of increasing warmth. I guess it
| wouldn't take many dBms of absorbed power to slightly heat
| a wasp.
| baggy_trough wrote:
| Monkeys like to be microwaved; may be a similar effect.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Very curious how you get IRB approval to microwave
| monkeys.
| hyeonwho4 wrote:
| There is no IRB for monkeys.
|
| The animal equivalent to an IRB is usually an
| Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC), but
| the laws they are subject to vary with jurisdiction, and
| their use is optional if your grant provider (i.e. NIH)
| or academic publisher do not require them.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| I beg your pardon?
| baggy_trough wrote:
| Try it: you'll see. Low power recommended.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Humans like to sit in saunas.
| walrus01 wrote:
| It's a useful small tool for low cost Ethernet bridges but
| a sub $200 ubiquiti 802.11ac point to point bridge is not a
| high powered radio, electrically they max out at something
| like 200 milliwatts, the rest of the eirp comes from the
| gain of the antenna.
| Q6T46nT668w6i3m wrote:
| I used to do this and, for me, the time it took was entirely
| dependent on the gear I was provided and whether the climb was
| enjoyable. The gear isn't exactly what you think of when you
| think climbing gear and, frankly, it's infuriating. It might be
| manufactured by Petzl but the weight and utility are terrible
| relative to their alpine and mountaineering products. Hell, I
| was expected to wear work boots that were extremely heavy and
| climbed poorly. As far as scenery, everyone, myself included,
| would treat these climbs as climbs and would enjoy ourselves if
| the views were scenic. The work itself wasn't hard relative to
| the trips we were guiding during the climbing season.
| jasinjames wrote:
| How would someone get into this work?
| walrus01 wrote:
| As a person that _hires_ tower service companies, I
| seriously would not recommend it as an entry level
| employee... The pay is horrible, the benefits suck, you 'll
| be travelling 75%+ of the time. The bar to entry is very
| low if you're physically fit. If you don't have any DUIs
| and can pass a drug screen you are already ahead of many
| candidates. Most of the recruiting takes placein social
| media these days, for instance there's probably 20 or so
| tower climber related groups on Facebook.
|
| One of the reasons for the extensive use of social media is
| that to put it as politely as possible, the talent pool
| they're recruiting from are not highly educated, often
| don't own laptops or any device other than their phone.
| Many cannot put together a grammatically correct cover
| letter or CV. There is a very high turn over rate in people
| with less than 2 years experience. You will be working with
| (and sharing the cheapest possible motel rooms with) some
| very crude and uneducated individuals, with whom you might
| have nothing in common. All that for a rate of pay about
| the same as Dicks Burgers pays in Seattle to literally flip
| a burger, and Dicks has much better benefits.
|
| The majority of the work will be mundane cellular tower and
| monopole stuff, unless you are hired by one of the more
| rare and specialized broadcast industry tower companies.
| The tower erection specialists are also a whole different
| ball game from the cellular industry contractors and subs.
|
| The industry in general is a frustrating race to the bottom
| in subcontractors, turf vendors, subs of subs, unpaid
| invoices, and similar. It's very much like getting into any
| other hard labor construction job like roofing.
|
| For the person in the thread here that said drones can only
| fly to 400 ft, not quite, the faa has specifically
| addressed this.
|
| ====
|
| https://pilotinstitute.com/drone-altitute/
|
| The relevant rules under Part 107 are summarized within
| Section 107.51. This section is entitled "Operating
| limitations for small unmanned aircraft" and contains a set
| of limits associated with speed, altitude, and visibility.
| Pertaining to altitude, item B of the Section states that:
|
| "The altitude of the small unmanned aircraft cannot be
| higher than 400 feet above ground level unless the small
| unmanned aircraft is (1) flown within a 400-foot radius of
| a structure, and (2) does not fly higher than 400 feet
| above the structure's immediate uppermost limit."
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Just as a note, the majority of the climbing industry is
| probably as you say (I'm not an expert in it by any
| means!), but the guys featured in this post are both pros
| at ERI who work on some of the more interesting projects.
| Still, to me one of the bigger downsides is the travel...
|
| Being on the road 50+% of the time (usually more) takes a
| toll!
|
| With drones being so accessible, a lot of the smaller
| climbing projects are no longer necessary, when it's just
| inspecting the top of a small tower with simple antennas.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Really big broadcast towers are a specialized niche...
| Your average tower crew is working at 200' and less. Many
| will never see the absolutely huge gin poles used to send
| up gigantic VHF (fm and tv) band antennas. If I had to
| guess, crews and people who work on the 1000' class guyed
| towers are maybe 2-3% of the industry. Everyone else is
| cranking out new sectors with RRH on monopoles for
| cellular carriers.
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| Decades ago, I would show up for work on Monday morning
| with my suitcase in the trunk of my car cause I knew that
| as soon as I walked in the door I would be told I'd be
| flying out somewhere that morning.
|
| I'll never forget the day I was driving down the road--
| less than half a mile from my apartment--and making a
| left turn when, for a couple of seconds, I couldn't
| remember what town I was in.
| anticensor wrote:
| A radio antenna is semi open though.
| ericcumbee wrote:
| The part 107 exam has a question about radio towers and
| the answer is 400 feet above with in 400 ft of the tower.
| Or up to the point you hit controlled airspace.
| adriand wrote:
| To what extent do people in this line of work feel fear as
| they do it? Is it mainly suitable for those rare people who
| either don't feel fear, or the less-rare people who are
| looking for a rush, or does it just become mundane after
| sufficient experience, so that really anyone can do it?
| stilldavid wrote:
| I'm a longtime rock climber and climbed a tower
| professionally back in another life. With most things, it's
| practice with the gear that builds trust in your system. I
| can do most anything at a height these days because I know
| that I'm safe; it lets me push that lizard brain feeling
| away. I similarly experienced this learning to SCUBA dive a
| few years ago - it's horrifying! But the more time spent
| doing the thing, practicing the systems, failure modes,
| etc... let me relax and enjoy the fish rather than freaking
| out that I'm 70' underwater.
| necubi wrote:
| I'm a rock climber, not a tower climber, but I've been on
| climbs that are >1k feet above the deck. For me (and I
| gather most climbers), just hanging off an anchor at 1000
| feet doesn't feel particularly scary. You're firmly
| attached to the rock with gear that you (hopefully) trust.
| For a tower, I'd expect it to feel even safer since the
| gear will be far more solid than some cams[0] jammed in a
| crack.
|
| I (along with most climbers) still feel fear though! But
| it's specifically fear of _falling_ rather than just fear
| of being high up. In climbing, that comes when you _lead_
| past your point of protection (where your rope is attached
| to the rock), creating the possibility of falling >2x that
| distance. In big wall climbing you might climb 10-50 feet
| before placing protection, so you are risking a potentially
| very big fall.
|
| In tower climbing falls aren't possible (unless you screw
| up the system), because you are always clipped into at
| least one point of protection. I'd imagine that it feels
| more grueling than terrifying for most people comfortable
| with the heights.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring-
| loaded_camming_device
| dgacmu wrote:
| Climber: I've climbed about 3000' above the ground and
| didn't feel a drop of fear during it. And then, at the top,
| after removing my harness, I scooched out on a rock that
| lets you see all the way down what we had just climbed, and
| holy cow was I nervous!
|
| I think you learn over time that you can trust the gear/
| partner / your judgement and technique. But that doesn't
| make all fear related to climbing disappear. There are
| situations in which fear is appropriate and I've been quite
| scared in them.
| cruffle_duffle wrote:
| I would think in a trade like this you'd have your own
| climbing gear and be expected to maintain it. In many trades
| most of the tools are property of the workers themselves.
| MrMcCall wrote:
| My kids and I have watched tons of documentaries over the years.
| One they (and I) enjoyed very much was "World's Toughest Fixes",
| which was hosted by a rigger named Sean Riley. In episode (s1e6)
| he helps a crack team of guys replace the top broadcast pole
| (name?) at the top of a 2000ft antennae. It's really
| extraordinary how they are working above the top of the actual
| tower to replace the old pole with the new one.
|
| His entire series was excellent, but the episode mentioned is
| here:
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1339028/
|
| (Series on wikipedia:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Toughest_Fixes)
| albert_e wrote:
| Cool
|
| Rabbit Hole:
|
| > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDLT_tower
|
| > Replacement of the beacon bulb at the top of the digital
| tower was featured in an episode of World's Toughest Fixes in
| 2010.[6] In 2015, amateur drone video footage of a man changing
| the light bulb on the analog tower went viral attracting more
| than 19 million views on YouTube and garnering attention from
| CNN and a newspaper in Britain.[7][8][9] On learning of the
| drone footage, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
| forbade any further flights; without its approval, drones are
| restricted by law to a ceiling of 400 feet (120 m), far lower
| than the height of the tower.[10]
|
| And the referenced viral video ...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1BgzIZRfT8#t=47
| geerlingguy wrote:
| I remember in high school having my Dad invite me to watch the
| process of installing the antenna with a gin pole. A fairly
| risky operation that requires a ton of planning, as you're
| lifting literal tons of metal up the side of a guyed mast,
| which is designed for straight-down loads, not loads hanging
| off the side!
|
| It doesn't always go well, for example the Senior Road Tower
| collapse.
| jlarcombe wrote:
| This video did the rounds many years ago now, still quite an
| uncomfortable watch especially when he gets to the top! I
| understand they don't allow 'free climbing' any more...
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgO4Gd4RhvM
| ddoolin wrote:
| This makes me physically very uncomfortable to watch. What a
| thrill.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| I am afraid of heights. I had to go back halfway through going
| up the Eiffel tower.
|
| Jesus fuck this video has me _on edge_. I don 't know what
| moved me to click that link, haha.
|
| These people have balls of tungsten, that's for sure.
| HL33tibCe7 wrote:
| These people presumably aren't scared of heights, so I'm not
| sure we can really comment on their balls
| fecal_henge wrote:
| I'd say their balls have a relative density in between
| bromine and tungsten. Uranium = customer service roles.
| dist-epoch wrote:
| Also a movie, Fall:
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15325794/
| whatever1 wrote:
| Nope. Just nope.
| CITIZENDOT wrote:
| Watching Fall (2022) made me extremely wary of these kind of
| stunts.
| geocrasher wrote:
| I had dismissed that movie, based on the previews, as just
| silly B-movie with better production. Is it actually good in
| the sense that the plot is plausible and the acting is decent?
| danieldk wrote:
| It's a pretty bad movie with bad acting. I did like it for
| some of the height shots which can be dizzying (I had no
| issues with 20-30m indoor climbing walls).
| phaedrus wrote:
| From the article: "Some broadcast engineering tasks are a bit too
| daunting for me to consider. Climbing the massive towers that
| power radio and TV stations is one of them!"
|
| I work for a team in a government agency that does engineering
| support for RF based navigational aids. Because we're short
| staffed (Congress underfunds us), everyone fulfills more jobs
| than their official title. (There's an elastic clause in
| government worker job descriptions, "and other duties as
| assigned.")
|
| Anyway. I live in fear of the day I'm called upon to climb a
| tower because they need me to do that. My regular job is software
| development! Obviously I'm not going to do it, but I'm unsure
| what my rights are / what will happen if and when I refuse.
| Unfortunately my position isn't union protected because my older
| peers didn't sign on when the (non-computer science) engineers
| did.
| sizzzzlerz wrote:
| Thats like being asked to fill in for the guy on the bomb squad
| who called in sick. Being forced to fill a role that is
| dangerous and for which you are untrained and unqualified
| sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.
| alexjplant wrote:
| > everyone fulfills more jobs than their official title.
| (There's an elastic clause in government worker job
| descriptions, "and other duties as assigned.")
|
| That's boilerplate language for pretty much every job
| description in the United States (which is where I'm guessing
| you are). It isn't unique to government jobs. Almost everybody
| that doesn't work under super-strict bureaucratic oversight has
| to do work that isn't explicitly called out in their job
| description.
|
| > I live in fear of the day I'm called upon to climb a tower
| because they need me to do that. My regular job is software
| development!
|
| Your boss isn't going to come to you saying "go climb a tower
| or ur fired lol" while pointing to that clause. Tower climbing
| requires many special considerations like training, permits,
| insurance, and so forth that you don't have. They will contract
| that work out or hire somebody to do it specifically at the
| appropriate rate.
|
| > my position isn't union protected
|
| Last I checked government positions have about half the
| turnover that private-sector ones do. You're already doing well
| as far as job security (reorgs, funding SNAFUs, furloughs, etc.
| excepted).
|
| I can only infer how you came to any of the conclusions that
| you did in your post but it sounds like you might have
| uninformed coworkers saying these things. If this is the case
| then stop listening to them.
| axegon_ wrote:
| I'm really glad to see Geerling branching out of his initial
| niche coverage on everything-raspberry-pi(which I personally find
| a bit boring 95% of the time).
| lxe wrote:
| You have to check out the author's other youtube videos exploring
| this tower in depth. Fascinating stuff!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_u8x8V4YYs
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ-XqQchwEw
| remlov wrote:
| It blows my mind that HN post submitters don't do a simple spell
| check on their post titles.
| h_tbob wrote:
| I think they should make it so the stuff is on an "elevator" that
| can be moved up and down. For safety.
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