[HN Gopher] Documenting an 1115 ft radio tower climb
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       Documenting an 1115 ft radio tower climb
        
       Author : geerlingguy
       Score  : 136 points
       Date   : 2025-01-02 20:02 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | tylerflick wrote:
       | He sort of touched on this, but an aspect of tower rigging that
       | most people don't think about is how long it can take to climb a
       | tower when you are the first one up with the line. It's
       | absolutely exhausting work.
       | 
       | Another side fact, wasps are attracted to building nests on the
       | towers for some reason. I never knew if it was all the EM
       | radiation being put off or just the heat.
        
         | aetherson wrote:
         | Almost certainly the heat.
        
           | Xenograph wrote:
           | I don't think it's the heat, rather, the wasps seem attracted
           | to the radio wave EM radiation. I'm not sure why, but I've
           | seen it first hand when turning on high powered outdoor
           | point-to-point WiFi antennas (eg. airMAX LiteBeam 5AC). The
           | moment I connected the power, several wasps immediately began
           | crowding around the antenna.
        
             | KeplerBoy wrote:
             | The wasps are of similar size to the wavelengths of 5 Ghz
             | RF frequencies. It seems plausible that they experience the
             | absorbed energy quite differently.
             | 
             | Maybe it's like a pleasant warmth from within and they just
             | fly towards the direction of increasing warmth. I guess it
             | wouldn't take many dBms of absorbed power to slightly heat
             | a wasp.
        
               | baggy_trough wrote:
               | Monkeys like to be microwaved; may be a similar effect.
        
               | saagarjha wrote:
               | Very curious how you get IRB approval to microwave
               | monkeys.
        
               | hyeonwho4 wrote:
               | There is no IRB for monkeys.
               | 
               | The animal equivalent to an IRB is usually an
               | Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee (IACUC), but
               | the laws they are subject to vary with jurisdiction, and
               | their use is optional if your grant provider (i.e. NIH)
               | or academic publisher do not require them.
        
               | 0_____0 wrote:
               | I beg your pardon?
        
               | baggy_trough wrote:
               | Try it: you'll see. Low power recommended.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | Humans like to sit in saunas.
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | It's a useful small tool for low cost Ethernet bridges but
             | a sub $200 ubiquiti 802.11ac point to point bridge is not a
             | high powered radio, electrically they max out at something
             | like 200 milliwatts, the rest of the eirp comes from the
             | gain of the antenna.
        
         | Q6T46nT668w6i3m wrote:
         | I used to do this and, for me, the time it took was entirely
         | dependent on the gear I was provided and whether the climb was
         | enjoyable. The gear isn't exactly what you think of when you
         | think climbing gear and, frankly, it's infuriating. It might be
         | manufactured by Petzl but the weight and utility are terrible
         | relative to their alpine and mountaineering products. Hell, I
         | was expected to wear work boots that were extremely heavy and
         | climbed poorly. As far as scenery, everyone, myself included,
         | would treat these climbs as climbs and would enjoy ourselves if
         | the views were scenic. The work itself wasn't hard relative to
         | the trips we were guiding during the climbing season.
        
           | jasinjames wrote:
           | How would someone get into this work?
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | As a person that _hires_ tower service companies, I
             | seriously would not recommend it as an entry level
             | employee... The pay is horrible, the benefits suck, you 'll
             | be travelling 75%+ of the time. The bar to entry is very
             | low if you're physically fit. If you don't have any DUIs
             | and can pass a drug screen you are already ahead of many
             | candidates. Most of the recruiting takes placein social
             | media these days, for instance there's probably 20 or so
             | tower climber related groups on Facebook.
             | 
             | One of the reasons for the extensive use of social media is
             | that to put it as politely as possible, the talent pool
             | they're recruiting from are not highly educated, often
             | don't own laptops or any device other than their phone.
             | Many cannot put together a grammatically correct cover
             | letter or CV. There is a very high turn over rate in people
             | with less than 2 years experience. You will be working with
             | (and sharing the cheapest possible motel rooms with) some
             | very crude and uneducated individuals, with whom you might
             | have nothing in common. All that for a rate of pay about
             | the same as Dicks Burgers pays in Seattle to literally flip
             | a burger, and Dicks has much better benefits.
             | 
             | The majority of the work will be mundane cellular tower and
             | monopole stuff, unless you are hired by one of the more
             | rare and specialized broadcast industry tower companies.
             | The tower erection specialists are also a whole different
             | ball game from the cellular industry contractors and subs.
             | 
             | The industry in general is a frustrating race to the bottom
             | in subcontractors, turf vendors, subs of subs, unpaid
             | invoices, and similar. It's very much like getting into any
             | other hard labor construction job like roofing.
             | 
             | For the person in the thread here that said drones can only
             | fly to 400 ft, not quite, the faa has specifically
             | addressed this.
             | 
             | ====
             | 
             | https://pilotinstitute.com/drone-altitute/
             | 
             | The relevant rules under Part 107 are summarized within
             | Section 107.51. This section is entitled "Operating
             | limitations for small unmanned aircraft" and contains a set
             | of limits associated with speed, altitude, and visibility.
             | Pertaining to altitude, item B of the Section states that:
             | 
             | "The altitude of the small unmanned aircraft cannot be
             | higher than 400 feet above ground level unless the small
             | unmanned aircraft is (1) flown within a 400-foot radius of
             | a structure, and (2) does not fly higher than 400 feet
             | above the structure's immediate uppermost limit."
        
               | geerlingguy wrote:
               | Just as a note, the majority of the climbing industry is
               | probably as you say (I'm not an expert in it by any
               | means!), but the guys featured in this post are both pros
               | at ERI who work on some of the more interesting projects.
               | Still, to me one of the bigger downsides is the travel...
               | 
               | Being on the road 50+% of the time (usually more) takes a
               | toll!
               | 
               | With drones being so accessible, a lot of the smaller
               | climbing projects are no longer necessary, when it's just
               | inspecting the top of a small tower with simple antennas.
        
               | walrus01 wrote:
               | Really big broadcast towers are a specialized niche...
               | Your average tower crew is working at 200' and less. Many
               | will never see the absolutely huge gin poles used to send
               | up gigantic VHF (fm and tv) band antennas. If I had to
               | guess, crews and people who work on the 1000' class guyed
               | towers are maybe 2-3% of the industry. Everyone else is
               | cranking out new sectors with RRH on monopoles for
               | cellular carriers.
        
               | assimpleaspossi wrote:
               | Decades ago, I would show up for work on Monday morning
               | with my suitcase in the trunk of my car cause I knew that
               | as soon as I walked in the door I would be told I'd be
               | flying out somewhere that morning.
               | 
               | I'll never forget the day I was driving down the road--
               | less than half a mile from my apartment--and making a
               | left turn when, for a couple of seconds, I couldn't
               | remember what town I was in.
        
               | anticensor wrote:
               | A radio antenna is semi open though.
        
               | ericcumbee wrote:
               | The part 107 exam has a question about radio towers and
               | the answer is 400 feet above with in 400 ft of the tower.
               | Or up to the point you hit controlled airspace.
        
           | adriand wrote:
           | To what extent do people in this line of work feel fear as
           | they do it? Is it mainly suitable for those rare people who
           | either don't feel fear, or the less-rare people who are
           | looking for a rush, or does it just become mundane after
           | sufficient experience, so that really anyone can do it?
        
             | stilldavid wrote:
             | I'm a longtime rock climber and climbed a tower
             | professionally back in another life. With most things, it's
             | practice with the gear that builds trust in your system. I
             | can do most anything at a height these days because I know
             | that I'm safe; it lets me push that lizard brain feeling
             | away. I similarly experienced this learning to SCUBA dive a
             | few years ago - it's horrifying! But the more time spent
             | doing the thing, practicing the systems, failure modes,
             | etc... let me relax and enjoy the fish rather than freaking
             | out that I'm 70' underwater.
        
             | necubi wrote:
             | I'm a rock climber, not a tower climber, but I've been on
             | climbs that are >1k feet above the deck. For me (and I
             | gather most climbers), just hanging off an anchor at 1000
             | feet doesn't feel particularly scary. You're firmly
             | attached to the rock with gear that you (hopefully) trust.
             | For a tower, I'd expect it to feel even safer since the
             | gear will be far more solid than some cams[0] jammed in a
             | crack.
             | 
             | I (along with most climbers) still feel fear though! But
             | it's specifically fear of _falling_ rather than just fear
             | of being high up. In climbing, that comes when you _lead_
             | past your point of protection (where your rope is attached
             | to the rock), creating the possibility of falling >2x that
             | distance. In big wall climbing you might climb 10-50 feet
             | before placing protection, so you are risking a potentially
             | very big fall.
             | 
             | In tower climbing falls aren't possible (unless you screw
             | up the system), because you are always clipped into at
             | least one point of protection. I'd imagine that it feels
             | more grueling than terrifying for most people comfortable
             | with the heights.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring-
             | loaded_camming_device
        
             | dgacmu wrote:
             | Climber: I've climbed about 3000' above the ground and
             | didn't feel a drop of fear during it. And then, at the top,
             | after removing my harness, I scooched out on a rock that
             | lets you see all the way down what we had just climbed, and
             | holy cow was I nervous!
             | 
             | I think you learn over time that you can trust the gear/
             | partner / your judgement and technique. But that doesn't
             | make all fear related to climbing disappear. There are
             | situations in which fear is appropriate and I've been quite
             | scared in them.
        
           | cruffle_duffle wrote:
           | I would think in a trade like this you'd have your own
           | climbing gear and be expected to maintain it. In many trades
           | most of the tools are property of the workers themselves.
        
       | MrMcCall wrote:
       | My kids and I have watched tons of documentaries over the years.
       | One they (and I) enjoyed very much was "World's Toughest Fixes",
       | which was hosted by a rigger named Sean Riley. In episode (s1e6)
       | he helps a crack team of guys replace the top broadcast pole
       | (name?) at the top of a 2000ft antennae. It's really
       | extraordinary how they are working above the top of the actual
       | tower to replace the old pole with the new one.
       | 
       | His entire series was excellent, but the episode mentioned is
       | here:
       | 
       | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1339028/
       | 
       | (Series on wikipedia:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Toughest_Fixes)
        
         | albert_e wrote:
         | Cool
         | 
         | Rabbit Hole:
         | 
         | > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDLT_tower
         | 
         | > Replacement of the beacon bulb at the top of the digital
         | tower was featured in an episode of World's Toughest Fixes in
         | 2010.[6] In 2015, amateur drone video footage of a man changing
         | the light bulb on the analog tower went viral attracting more
         | than 19 million views on YouTube and garnering attention from
         | CNN and a newspaper in Britain.[7][8][9] On learning of the
         | drone footage, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
         | forbade any further flights; without its approval, drones are
         | restricted by law to a ceiling of 400 feet (120 m), far lower
         | than the height of the tower.[10]
         | 
         | And the referenced viral video ...
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1BgzIZRfT8#t=47
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | I remember in high school having my Dad invite me to watch the
         | process of installing the antenna with a gin pole. A fairly
         | risky operation that requires a ton of planning, as you're
         | lifting literal tons of metal up the side of a guyed mast,
         | which is designed for straight-down loads, not loads hanging
         | off the side!
         | 
         | It doesn't always go well, for example the Senior Road Tower
         | collapse.
        
       | jlarcombe wrote:
       | This video did the rounds many years ago now, still quite an
       | uncomfortable watch especially when he gets to the top! I
       | understand they don't allow 'free climbing' any more...
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgO4Gd4RhvM
        
         | ddoolin wrote:
         | This makes me physically very uncomfortable to watch. What a
         | thrill.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | I am afraid of heights. I had to go back halfway through going
         | up the Eiffel tower.
         | 
         | Jesus fuck this video has me _on edge_. I don 't know what
         | moved me to click that link, haha.
         | 
         | These people have balls of tungsten, that's for sure.
        
           | HL33tibCe7 wrote:
           | These people presumably aren't scared of heights, so I'm not
           | sure we can really comment on their balls
        
             | fecal_henge wrote:
             | I'd say their balls have a relative density in between
             | bromine and tungsten. Uranium = customer service roles.
        
         | dist-epoch wrote:
         | Also a movie, Fall:
         | 
         | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15325794/
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | Nope. Just nope.
        
       | CITIZENDOT wrote:
       | Watching Fall (2022) made me extremely wary of these kind of
       | stunts.
        
         | geocrasher wrote:
         | I had dismissed that movie, based on the previews, as just
         | silly B-movie with better production. Is it actually good in
         | the sense that the plot is plausible and the acting is decent?
        
           | danieldk wrote:
           | It's a pretty bad movie with bad acting. I did like it for
           | some of the height shots which can be dizzying (I had no
           | issues with 20-30m indoor climbing walls).
        
       | phaedrus wrote:
       | From the article: "Some broadcast engineering tasks are a bit too
       | daunting for me to consider. Climbing the massive towers that
       | power radio and TV stations is one of them!"
       | 
       | I work for a team in a government agency that does engineering
       | support for RF based navigational aids. Because we're short
       | staffed (Congress underfunds us), everyone fulfills more jobs
       | than their official title. (There's an elastic clause in
       | government worker job descriptions, "and other duties as
       | assigned.")
       | 
       | Anyway. I live in fear of the day I'm called upon to climb a
       | tower because they need me to do that. My regular job is software
       | development! Obviously I'm not going to do it, but I'm unsure
       | what my rights are / what will happen if and when I refuse.
       | Unfortunately my position isn't union protected because my older
       | peers didn't sign on when the (non-computer science) engineers
       | did.
        
         | sizzzzlerz wrote:
         | Thats like being asked to fill in for the guy on the bomb squad
         | who called in sick. Being forced to fill a role that is
         | dangerous and for which you are untrained and unqualified
         | sounds like grounds for a lawsuit.
        
         | alexjplant wrote:
         | > everyone fulfills more jobs than their official title.
         | (There's an elastic clause in government worker job
         | descriptions, "and other duties as assigned.")
         | 
         | That's boilerplate language for pretty much every job
         | description in the United States (which is where I'm guessing
         | you are). It isn't unique to government jobs. Almost everybody
         | that doesn't work under super-strict bureaucratic oversight has
         | to do work that isn't explicitly called out in their job
         | description.
         | 
         | > I live in fear of the day I'm called upon to climb a tower
         | because they need me to do that. My regular job is software
         | development!
         | 
         | Your boss isn't going to come to you saying "go climb a tower
         | or ur fired lol" while pointing to that clause. Tower climbing
         | requires many special considerations like training, permits,
         | insurance, and so forth that you don't have. They will contract
         | that work out or hire somebody to do it specifically at the
         | appropriate rate.
         | 
         | > my position isn't union protected
         | 
         | Last I checked government positions have about half the
         | turnover that private-sector ones do. You're already doing well
         | as far as job security (reorgs, funding SNAFUs, furloughs, etc.
         | excepted).
         | 
         | I can only infer how you came to any of the conclusions that
         | you did in your post but it sounds like you might have
         | uninformed coworkers saying these things. If this is the case
         | then stop listening to them.
        
       | axegon_ wrote:
       | I'm really glad to see Geerling branching out of his initial
       | niche coverage on everything-raspberry-pi(which I personally find
       | a bit boring 95% of the time).
        
       | lxe wrote:
       | You have to check out the author's other youtube videos exploring
       | this tower in depth. Fascinating stuff!
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_u8x8V4YYs
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ-XqQchwEw
        
       | remlov wrote:
       | It blows my mind that HN post submitters don't do a simple spell
       | check on their post titles.
        
       | h_tbob wrote:
       | I think they should make it so the stuff is on an "elevator" that
       | can be moved up and down. For safety.
        
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