[HN Gopher] A Billion Pixels a Second: Inside Apple's iPhone 16 ...
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       A Billion Pixels a Second: Inside Apple's iPhone 16 Camera Labs
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2024-12-31 10:56 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnet.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnet.com)
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | This is really a puff piece - for instance, Nokia had a 1 billion
       | pixels per second processing pipeline on their 808 PureView
       | phone. In 2012.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | what on cnet is not a puff piece?
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Even so, the "camera first" Nokia 808 PureView took notably
         | worse photos (DxOMark Mobile Photo score: 60) than the iPhone 7
         | (score: 86) and other flagship phones (Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
         | score: 86) of that time.
        
           | gregoriol wrote:
           | Size is not the only metric that matters
        
           | n144q wrote:
           | iPhone 7 was released in 2016, 4 years after 808 was
           | released.
           | 
           | Can't see what your point is.
        
         | rob_c wrote:
         | Unless apple invented it, no they didn't and you're wrong...
         | 
         | The cult of apple kinda says everything wrong about the valley
         | to me. This isn't magicians at work with secret spells, this is
         | just cutting edge tech that is at the point of being commodity.
         | Making something appealing to idiots has drawbacks, less
         | repairability, less durability etc and now even apple is slowly
         | reverting even this under govt changes...
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | If iOS has a majority market share in the US, wouldn't anyone
           | who is not using an iPhone be part of the "cult"?
           | 
           | And I bet if I drop my phone, it would be a lot easier to
           | drive to one of the five Apple Stores in the metro area to
           | get it repaired than it would be for you to get your camera
           | repaired.
           | 
           | That's not even considering the fact that it could service a
           | drop better than your camera and is water resistant
        
             | n144q wrote:
             | > That's not even considering the fact that it could
             | service a drop better than your camera and is water
             | resistant
             | 
             | Definitely need citations for this.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/18200/18200-drop-test.htm
               | 
               | https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2013/05/23/camera-
               | meet...
               | 
               | Can you imagine any modern phone not surviving a 3 foot
               | drop?
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | Yes, it definitely is. Once you notice the signs of PR, you can
         | see this was being written because Apple's privacy story fell
         | apart.
         | 
         | This is really about hiding their entire SIRI recording your
         | conversations without your permission.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Indeed - it can mean simply a 1GHz data bus thats 32 bits wide.
         | Pipeline all your image processing so it's 1 cycle per pixel
         | and you're done.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Your comment is somewhat misleading.
         | 
         | The 808, while a great high resolution sensor, processed stills
         | at 5MP after pixel binning, compared to the 48/24/12MP of the
         | iPhones. It did have a non-binned mode but again for stills.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_808_PureView
         | 
         | The majority of the post is actually about video and the
         | comparison is a lot more dramatic there.
         | 
         | A 4k frame from a modern phone ,like the iPhone 16 pro, is
         | ~8MP.
         | 
         | The 808 could "only" do 1080p at 30fps (62M pixels a second).
         | Compare that to 4k at 120fps (995M pixels a second). That's a
         | far cry from 1Bn per second that you're claiming. Impressive
         | for the time though.
         | 
         | There's a significant difference here.
         | 
         | The sensor on the 808 was amazing. The real meat of the tech
         | here is the image processing pipeline that can process
         | everything off the sensor for further processing.
        
       | JSR_FDED wrote:
       | The title doesn't do it justice - everything with images quickly
       | adds up.
       | 
       | Doing 120 fps video at 4K so that any chosen frame looks amazing
       | without artifacts is really quite an achievement.
       | 
       | The microphones were actually more interesting to me, that you
       | can get lavalier performance from the tiny mics in the phone that
       | are physically far from the person being recorded is seriously
       | clever.
       | 
       | Getting this to work some of the time is already an achievement
       | but I think people underestimate how much work goes into making
       | it work across all different scenarios.
        
         | jval43 wrote:
         | Mirrorless cameras nowadays can push as much as 8k60 (twice the
         | amount of data over 4k120), every frame at full quality. All
         | that with better optics/sensors and less "perceptual testing",
         | thus less of an overprocessed look.
        
           | zuhsetaqi wrote:
           | What do they cost and how big are they?
           | 
           | Nobody is claiming a world record from Apple ...
        
           | Almondsetat wrote:
           | Heat dissipation
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | can that mirrorless camera make a phone call, send a text,
           | edit the photo it takes, browse the web, upload the picture
           | to an app, run other apps, or any of the many many other
           | things a phone does that a single function dedicated camera
           | cannot?
           | 
           | what trade offs do you accept for that mirrorless camera to
           | do all of the same functionality while still taking an above
           | decent looking image for the vast majority of its users
           | without all of those fancy lenses fixed or interchangeable?
           | As the saying goes, the best came you have is the one you
           | have on you. Only snooty photo/video types care about your
           | comment. Most videos used by phone people are only ever
           | viewed on that device or other similar devices of others
           | viewing it on whatever app they shared it. To even consider
           | them comparable is just not an honest take in the slightest.
           | I say this as someone with several DSLRs and a couple of
           | cinema camera bodies in the next room.
        
             | gazchop wrote:
             | This is a silly take. I've got an iPhone 15 Pro and quite
             | frankly the camera on it is pretty good. But it has severe
             | limitations both on reach and quality which you can't get
             | around without actually putting some real glass in front of
             | it. A lot of people I speak to when travelling are quite
             | disappointed in what comes out of their phones but naively
             | assume it's the status quo. And we're talking flagships
             | with the best cameras there as well. The digital crutch
             | kills a lot of memories.
             | 
             | Show them one shot from a cheap modern mirrorless and the
             | smartphone is over for them. You don't even need a high end
             | body. And yes you can do a lot on body and yes they
             | integrate with the phone as well. So that doesn't kill any
             | of those use cases. They augment the situation.
             | 
             | Currently using a Nikon Z50ii + 18-140mm zoom. I don't
             | change the lens for ref. I shoot JPEG and edit on my phone.
             | Most of the stuff goes on facebook or gets looked at on my
             | Mac. I don't use LR or shoot raw. The thing literally
             | tethers to my phone.
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | > Show them one shot from a cheap modern mirrorless and
               | the smartphone is over for them
               | 
               | IME this only lasts up to the point they have to lug that
               | brick with them.
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly in the "my 8 yo m4/3 kit
               | wipes the floor with any phone it's not even funny".
               | Which is all the more the case for a modern FF kit. But
               | even my tiny Olympus is huge compared to my iPhone. Only
               | my winter coat with fat pockets can fit it. It otherwise
               | needs an actual bag (might work with some women's purses,
               | I don't usually carry anything at all).
               | 
               | Guess which one I have 100% of the time with me? I've
               | found that the iPhone in hand while outside takes 100%
               | better pictures than the Olympus kit in the drawer at
               | home.
               | 
               | It's always a question of compromise. Before my Olympus
               | gear, I used to love my FF Canon gear. Built like tanks.
               | Until it got old carrying all that junk around, and it
               | started gathering dust somewhere. Now I'm happy with m4/3
               | when I'm relatively serious about my photography, and I'm
               | happy enough with what my iPhone produces when I only
               | feel like having a pair of jeans and a shirt on.
               | 
               | Would a new Sony something-or-other wipe the floor with
               | the Olympus? Possibly. Enough for me to lug it around? No
               | way.
        
               | gazchop wrote:
               | No one seems to care about carrying another brick around
               | on top of the 11 pairs of shoes.
               | 
               | The new stuff doesn't weigh a lot. It's not FF bricks any
               | more. Nikon stuff is mostly magnesium and plastic.
        
               | rscrawfo wrote:
               | When you're just running out the door with your kids it's
               | hard to pick up the full frame behemoth.
               | 
               | I've been considering a m43 for that reason.
        
               | gazchop wrote:
               | Yeah. I've got three kids.
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | I don't get the reference for the 11 pairs of shoes. I
               | haven't handled new Nikon stuff (the last body I touched
               | was a D80 a long time ago). But I doubt it's smaller and
               | lighter than my olympus with a prime [0]. More power to
               | you if you're OK carrying your kit, it means this works
               | for you, which is absolutely great!
               | 
               | But, be that is it may, take a look around you. How many
               | people do you see on any given day taking pictures with
               | actual cameras, whatever the format? I live in Paris, a
               | city flooded with tourists, whom you'd expect to be more
               | likely to put up with carrying a somewhat inconvenient
               | camera in exchange for better pictures. I can count on
               | the fingers of one hand the people I've seen taking
               | pictures with actual cameras in the last few months. And
               | I walk or bike to/from work, along one of the most
               | picturesque parts of the city. However, you can see
               | people taking pictures with their phones all day,
               | everyday.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | [0] Some of the bodies are actually surprisingly small. A
               | sony A7C2 is "only" twice as thick as my Pen-F, the other
               | dimensions being similar. But the body itself is useless
               | without a lens. And while wide-angle offerings seem
               | somewhat similar (though there's no equivalent to the
               | 8-25/4), the tele end is much larger, even comparing a
               | variable aperture to a fixed f/4 offering from Olympus.
               | And primes are an absolute joke if size matters.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | It's been ages since I've used my FF Canon system which
               | is a couple generations old at this point. At some point,
               | I'll have to make a call on my APS-C mirrorless Fujifilm
               | which I've left at home on a couple trips now where I
               | would _always_ have brought a standalone camera in the
               | past. Unfortunately they haven 't replaced the exact form
               | factor I really like and the camera is getting pretty
               | long in the tooth about now.
        
               | freehorse wrote:
               | > A lot of people I speak to when traveling are quite
               | disappointed in what comes out of their phones but
               | naively assume it's the status quo.
               | 
               | Is that the case? I think it takes one to be a
               | photography enthusiast/nerd to care enough to carry a
               | camera with them. Most people I meet just want a phone
               | "with a good camera". Phone cameras in this sense do not
               | compete with real cameras, it is pretty obvious one can
               | get a better camera if you remove the constraints that a
               | smartphone's physical body brings. I think it is pretty
               | illogical for one to think that smartphones have as good
               | cameras as a good real camera, having all these space
               | constrains and whatnot, so I doubt people really believe
               | that the phone cameras are the status quo. Some people
               | may be "disappointed" by their smartphone's photos
               | (because they are able to objectively determine it) when
               | they travel but most won't get a real camera because
               | essentially they do not care that much as to buy/carry an
               | additional object (or they do not have the money).
               | 
               | For me, I am just happy that my phone now takes photos
               | "that look good" even if I have no idea or skill on how
               | to take good photos really, though I can appreciate if
               | there is somebody with me with a real camera who does.
               | And even if I had a real camera, I doubt I have the skill
               | to take something better than the software-modified one I
               | get from my phone.
        
               | gazchop wrote:
               | I don't disagree with most of this. The thoughts around
               | it only come from that one day you will inevitably have
               | where you take a really good photo on your phone. Then
               | you get home and realise that it's actually trash.
               | 
               | This was my one https://imgur.com/a/rPCJwcR (thanks
               | Google!)
               | 
               | Lots of people have this day and decide they'll keep that
               | phone a couple more years and buy a camera with the
               | upgrade cycle money. I think when I am travelling around
               | 25% of people have mirrorless or DLSRs now compared to 5%
               | a couple of years ago. A 10+ year old Nikon D3100 with
               | kit lens is still a better camera then a 2024 iPhone Pro
               | and doesn't cost a lot of money.
               | 
               | Across Europe at least people have a lot of distrust of
               | their phones as well. I suspect some of that is driving
               | adoption. I even see film cameras regularly now as well
               | (!).
        
               | freehorse wrote:
               | > This was my one https://imgur.com/a/rPCJwcR (thanks
               | Google!)
               | 
               | Wow this is really bad. Was it zoomed? If this is the
               | case, it is interesting that it is still 4k resolution
               | and companies prioritize "4k" even with horrible
               | processing or whatever artifacts are these, rather than
               | reducing resolution eg when zooming. Similar with low
               | light, where binning the pixels could increase light
               | sensitivity.
               | 
               | If it is not zoomed in, it is much worse.
        
               | gazchop wrote:
               | It's 2:1 zoom on a 64MP main camera on a Google Pixel 7A.
               | It absolutely destroyed it. Wasn't low light either.
        
               | foldr wrote:
               | If that's really only 2x zoom then I don't know how you
               | can possibly have gotten a result that bad. I don't have
               | a Pixel 7A, but it's certainly not representative of what
               | 2x zoom looks like in daylight on a recent iPhone Pro.
               | (My Pixel 3a used to do a better job of 2x zoom than
               | that, FWIW.)
        
               | kccqzy wrote:
               | > Then you get home and realise that it's actually trash.
               | 
               | Most people take pictures on their phone and look at
               | pictures on their phone only. They won't return home to
               | realize the picture is trash because their viewing medium
               | is only capable of displaying a little more than a
               | million pixels.
        
               | closewith wrote:
               | No offence, but this is nonsense.
               | 
               | The average person isn't at all worried about photo
               | quality and is happy with their 3-4 year old phone.
               | 
               | At best, they're smiling and enduring your diatribes
               | about camera quality and then going back to their iPhone
               | Instagram snaps.
        
               | likeabatterycar wrote:
               | I'm more concerned that I own an iPhone whose vibrate
               | function - something mastered over 30 years ago in pagers
               | - is now so pathetic I've missed phone calls with the
               | phone literally right next to me. Older models you could
               | hear from rooms away.
        
               | foldr wrote:
               | >without actually putting some real glass in front of it
               | 
               | What is not 'real' about an iPhone camera's lens? They're
               | very sophisticated. (See e.g. here
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30557578)
        
           | Foobar8568 wrote:
           | And they cost at least double, and rarely all the time with
           | you. I am a bit annoyed by the "AI/processing" part of
           | cellphones, I would love to get back to camera but I can't
           | justify it anymore.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | We really are getting to a crossover point for a lot of
             | things. I'll keep and sometimes use my increasingly old
             | standalone cameras for some purposes but I rarely take them
             | on trips these days.
             | 
             | I was talking to a friend who is a very good photographer
             | last fall who used to always have a camera on him and he
             | says that, like myself, he only uses his cameras for
             | specific purposes these days. Mostly his smartphone is
             | fine.
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | _I would love to get back to camera but I can 't justify it
             | anymore._
             | 
             | I started using iPhone Pros a few generations ago for the
             | better camera, and it's been great for random snapshots.
             | The adage about the best camera is the one in your pocket
             | is true.
             | 
             | But, I still have a mirrorless (Olympus) and some vintage
             | 35mm cameras. The mirrorless is great for photos that I
             | want to look very good (portraits, landscapes, mixed
             | lighting, etc). The film cameras are a pleasure to use, but
             | I'll freely admit that using them is a bit like preferring
             | a nice Seiko to a smart watch or basic digital Casio.
             | 
             | Anyways, with the prices of used cameras being so low, you
             | can get a really nice, compact mirrorless setup for $500 or
             | less. And fixed lens 35mm rangefinders from the 70s can be
             | had for $200 or so. I won't claim it's a cheap hobby, but
             | it's no worse than golf or cycling.
        
             | harrall wrote:
             | I like pocketable non-interchangeable lens mirrorless
             | cameras.
             | 
             | I rarely carry it because my cellphone is usually good
             | enough but it's good for travel and for lower light areas
             | where cellphones struggle. It won't fit in my pants pocket
             | but it fits in my jacket fine.
             | 
             | When I first got it, I didn't know when I should carry it
             | and when I shouldn't but now I know and don't even bat an
             | eye about it.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | There is plenty of perceptual testing involved in the color
           | science for a standalone camera. And more in the lenses.
        
           | ls612 wrote:
           | iPhones have been able to shoot in RAW/ProRes for a while now
           | if you really want that.
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | 25 and 50 don't go into 120
        
       | mannyv wrote:
       | Two unanswered question: why not put the camera in the middle of
       | the phone? And why do the cameras keep moving around?
        
         | kaonwarb wrote:
         | The space in the middle is dominated by a big battery in any
         | smartphone I've seen. I suspect it would be less efficient to
         | break that up.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | FWIW Xiaomi has flagships with split batteries for faster
           | charge.
           | 
           | e.g.: https://www.mi.com/global/product/xiaomi-11t-pro-120w-x
           | iaomi...
        
         | klipt wrote:
         | I think I'd accidentally stick my thumb/finger in front of a
         | central camera even more often than I already do with corner
         | cameras!
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | > why not put the camera in the middle of the phone?
         | 
         | This is one of those things that doesn't seem like it should
         | matter, but it does. If the lens is mounted in the exact center
         | of the body, the images come out looking unbalanced. To produce
         | balanced images, you have to offset the lens. Even very
         | expensive pro mirrorless bodies are offset; that is, if you
         | look directly down the center of the lens, you'll notice there
         | is more camera body sticking out on one side than the other.
         | 
         | This is called the chirality of the optical path and it is
         | surprisingly difficult to predict analytically. Companies will
         | typically design the optical path, prototype it, and mount it
         | on a jig to precisely measure the chirality. From this, they
         | design the body with the proper offset.
         | 
         | Chirality is more noticeable the smaller the sensor and the
         | shorter the lens. So on smart phones, which put tiny sensors
         | behind wide-angle lenses, they have to get the offset just
         | right. This explains why the lenses are in slightly different
         | places on the body every time Apple updates their cameras.
        
           | nakedrobot2 wrote:
           | What on earth did I just read? Is this ai slop that I just
           | read? None of this is correct or true.
        
           | jval43 wrote:
           | Your comment makes no sense.
           | 
           | Every mirrorless body has a center marking for the middle of
           | the sensor, so the camera can be mounted exactly centered on
           | a tripod. It's actually important for photos to be exactly on
           | axis if you want to do panoramas or stitching.
           | 
           | The only reason the body is not exactly symmetrical is
           | engineering and ergonomics. Many point and shoots of the past
           | in fact had the lens exactly in the center.
           | 
           | And "chirality of the optical path" is not anything related
           | to this, in fact the term is not usable in this context at
           | all.
        
           | Toutouxc wrote:
           | I vouched for this comment just so I could reply to it. The
           | entire thing is so fascinatingly, unbelievably, OBVIOUSLY,
           | violently incorrect in every single way, yet it doesn't feel
           | like straight GPT output.
           | 
           | It was also posted by a person with a huge karma. I want to
           | understand what happened.
        
             | snowwrestler wrote:
             | Thanks for vouching. I guess I figured people would realize
             | I was joking based on how ridiculous it was.
        
               | Toutouxc wrote:
               | That... didn't occur to me at all. Nowadays stuff like
               | this usually a LLM running amok. :( Sorry about that.
        
               | snowwrestler wrote:
               | An LLM running amok is probably not a bad description of
               | me after a couple of drinks, actually.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | It was a good joke, but sadly our world has gotten so
               | strange that it fits right in with many 100% earnest
               | comments. Either that or the world is mired in full of
               | jokers than I realized.
        
           | rob_c wrote:
           | What the actual f*(c)k?
        
         | ipv6ipv4 wrote:
         | If we are playing with phone camera form factors, I vote for
         | thinking outside the phone. Remove the camera entirely from the
         | phone, and put it in a separate cylindrical device; a smaller
         | incarnation of Apple's ancient iSight webcam. Stuff in better
         | optics, put controls on the cylinder, and allow viewing the
         | image from my watch when taking a photo/video. So I can leave
         | the phone at home...
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | I think that would be a niche product, at best.
           | 
           | Most users would want to use the screen of their smartphone
           | as a viewfinder. That either means using both hands or
           | requiring a way to attach the thing to the smartphone.
           | 
           | Also, to do the image processing, that cylinder would need to
           | have most of the processing power of the iPhone and, thus, a
           | fairly large battery.
        
             | ipv6ipv4 wrote:
             | Yes, it is niche today. I'm hoping for a less phone screen
             | oriented future.
        
           | kalleboo wrote:
           | Sony actually did something like this once back in 2013. It
           | could work independently or clip onto your phone as a
           | viewfinder
           | 
           | Low end model
           | https://www.dpreview.com/products/sony/compacts/sony_dscqx10
           | 
           | High end model https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-
           | cybershot-dsc-qx100
        
             | globular-toast wrote:
             | Tbh answer is usually "Sony did that, but nobody cared".
             | They also did the camera in the middle thing with the
             | Xperia Pro. It even had adjustable aperture!
             | 
             | Sony has consistently been innovating in this space but has
             | always had basically insignificant market share. People
             | keep complaining about mundane updates and AI crap but they
             | won't buy phones from the one manufacturer that bucks this
             | trend. MKBHD has a couple of videos about it (regarding the
             | Xperia 1vi iirc).
             | 
             | My Sony phone has a 4k 120hz oled screen, notification led,
             | headphone jack, fully manual camera mode, no bloatware or
             | ai crap, great battery life (never had to charge my phone
             | during the day). They had the battery save features years
             | before other manufacturers. They've been doing this
             | consistently for years. I don't know how they keep doing
             | it, but I'm glad they do.
        
         | asciimov wrote:
         | > why not put the camera in the middle of the phone?
         | 
         | Because when you pick it up, your hand is covering up the
         | middle of the phone. However the top quarter is unobstructed.
         | 
         | > And why do the cameras keep moving around?
         | 
         | Easy way to tell models apart.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > Easy way to tell models apart.
           | 
           | is that the reason or just a convenient side effect? the last
           | two models had to move the lenses around slightly so they
           | could capture whatever they called their stereo AR/VR type
           | acquisition so the pupil distances worked correctly. after
           | that, there's only so many ways to arrange 2 or 3 lenses.
        
         | mcintyre1994 wrote:
         | Another reason that comes to mind is the camera bump. If you
         | put the camera in the middle then it'd kinda rest on that on a
         | flat surface and wobble. With the camera in a corner it sits on
         | the camera bump + the opposite corner which is a bit more
         | stable and less obvious.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | That's not the market they're going after, even with all the
         | ads and promotion. It's more an aspirational positioning than a
         | hardcore one.
         | 
         | For instance Xiaomi is a lot more serious about the photo part
         | (and they also sell a lot less as well, this model was only
         | noticed in photography circles)
         | 
         | https://www.mi.com/global/product/xiaomi-14-ultra/
        
         | jdietrich wrote:
         | Packaging. A phone is absolutely stuffed with components, most
         | of the market highly values thinness, so every mm^3 is
         | jealously fought over. Putting the camera in the middle might
         | mean making the phone bigger, having to shrink the battery, or
         | putting antennas in less-than-ideal places. It's design trade-
         | offs all the way down.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | The body text is really uncomfortably sycophantic.
        
         | mrandish wrote:
         | Yes, and it's maddeningly detail-free. Just vague claims that
         | something wonderful is being accomplished with zero data or
         | specifics.
        
           | pierrefermat1 wrote:
           | The reality is journalists don't really have the knowledge to
           | explain any specifics at all, so you just get this fluff. But
           | hey at least there's pretty pictures
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | Photos on my wife's camera look slightly deformed. The people
       | don't look like themselves, their faces are just slightly off.
       | I'm blaming the AI inside of the photos app on iPhone, but I'm
       | not sure.
       | 
       | People's face look perfect on my mediocre Android though.
       | 
       | I'm never going to buy or use an iPhone. Even the questionable
       | advantage which was supposed to be the iPhone's camera is fake.
        
         | gazchop wrote:
         | This is probably a combination of the lens corrections, the
         | pretty awful auto white balance (warmth), the terrible
         | oversharpening and also a bit of True Tone. Portrait mode also
         | wrecks a lot of photos due to the crappy emulation of DOF.
         | Output is clever but shit.
         | 
         | Due to the general flatness of the lens there is a lot of
         | distortion around the edges which is digitally removed after
         | the photo is taken. This isn't 100% perfect and causes some
         | rather uncanny looks in some of the photos. You can use this
         | for artistic effect but it looks crap mostly. Generally if
         | you're using a proper camera there's a big chunk of glass in
         | front of it so the main part of a portrait is well outside the
         | distorted edges of the frame so it's not noticeable. Even new
         | cameras use minimal lens corrections in body as well to
         | eliminate this.
         | 
         | As for the white balance, Apple never seem to get this right.
         | The colours are always slightly too orange / warm and vivid and
         | never quite match reality in experience. You can crank the
         | warmth down a bit after in photos.app to kill some of it.
         | 
         | Oversharpening - everything is too sharp. This makes the image
         | pop out but nothing more. It's a terrible curse on smartphones.
         | Not much you can do about it. Even shooting ProRAW on mine is
         | oversharpened.
         | 
         | If you turn the True Tone feature off in Display/Settings it
         | looks a bit better as well. That seems to completely mung
         | viewing any photos later, giving them sometimes an over-blue
         | tone.
         | 
         | Urgh all this is why I bought a mirrorless. Smartphones are
         | really not very good. Even good ones (mine is a 15 Pro). Mine
         | gets mostly used to take photos of an AirBnB when I leave it
         | now or where the car got parked.
        
           | amluto wrote:
           | My bonus pet peeve about portrait mode is that the internet
           | is full of portrait mode photos, which means AI gets trained
           | on portrait mode photos, which means AI generates pictures
           | that look like portrait mode. Garbage in, garbage out.
        
       | harha_ wrote:
       | I wonder how much that wire mesh floor distorts the recording
       | result? I guess it must be insignificant, since the walls,
       | ceiling and floor absorb almost all reflected sound waves?
        
         | jdietrich wrote:
         | Sound waves are really long. 20kHz is about the limit of human
         | hearing, so the shortest wave we can hear is about 17cm; the
         | longest wave we can hear is about 17 _meters_. A suitably
         | designed mesh will be effectively transparent across that
         | frequency range.
        
       | orev wrote:
       | > 38% of people said that better cameras are a main motivation
       | for buying a new phone
       | 
       | This strikes me as just a reflection of the ad campaigns. Apple
       | promotes "better cameras" for every new iPhone, almost
       | exclusively in their ads, so it's not surprising that's what
       | people would say. With every new phone being just an incremental
       | upgrade, hyping up the camera is the only way to get people to
       | drop a $1000 on a new one. Most of these 38% won't be able to
       | tell the difference between a phone pic taken 5 or more years
       | ago.
        
         | esafak wrote:
         | Better images got people to buy even more expensive digital
         | cameras that do less than your cell phone. It turns out people
         | like to take pictures.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | Do less in terms of what exactly? Because I have photos from
           | old digital cameras from nearly 20 years ago that look
           | drastically better and more detailed than Android or iPhone
           | photos from several years back. I would be surprised if the
           | quality is down. In terms of features the quality is key.
        
             | esafak wrote:
             | Do less in terms of not being able to do anything beside
             | take a picture. And they don't do any computational
             | photography, either, so their pictures are not necessarily
             | better. Try any low light photography with moving objects
             | on your camera? Or adjust the focal point? Cell phones can
             | do it.
             | 
             | If digital cameras were so good they would not be
             | disappearing.
        
               | orev wrote:
               | Phone cameras have come a long way, no doubt, but DSLRs
               | really do look amazing. Phones are winning because "the
               | best camera is the one that's with you". Since people
               | have the phone camera in their pocket all the time, they
               | usually don't bother to carry a separate bulky one except
               | for special occasions.
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | Phones are also winning because the gap is narrowing.
               | Computational photography probably? won't ever replace
               | wide aperture superzoom lenses, but each hear the scope
               | of "you can't take that shot with a phone" shrinks.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Apple at least has certainly emphasized photography (and video)
         | a lot.
         | 
         | But that actually seems to be a very reasoned response to
         | consumers asking themselves "Why should I upgrade my phone?"
         | And over at least some timescale--maybe not every model--a
         | better camera actually seems like a pretty reasonable answer
         | for people who care.
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | I don't understand this view.
         | 
         | Theory 1: People treasure memories and have been let down by
         | pictures tnat don't age well from cheap film cameras, then
         | early digital cameras, then phone cameras. Phones have gotten
         | good enough to replace separate devices for most people, but
         | the cameras are still not as versatile. People will spend money
         | for incremental improvements because the payoff will last
         | decades and benefit their children. Apple invests heavily in
         | camera tech to satisfy this need, and in marketing to
         | communicate the benefits.
         | 
         | Theory 2: sheeple buy whatever marketing tells them to, those
         | rubes don't see any real benefit.
         | 
         | I just don't see how anyone who enjoys even casual photography
         | could go for theory 2.
        
           | orev wrote:
           | If phone cameras hadn't changed over the past 10 years, most
           | people would still be happy with the quality of photos taken.
           | Most photos are never printed out or viewed on any device
           | other than their phone. They may be poorly lit, composed
           | badly, and be blurry, but they still serve their primary
           | purpose for most people, which is to relive a memory. That
           | function is the same whether the sensor is 2 or 48
           | megapixels.
           | 
           | Newer tech of course looks better, and people can definitely
           | tell the difference when comparing them side-by-side. But
           | there's also an element of the reality distortion field when
           | it comes to convincing people that they need to upgrade from
           | a two year old phone to the latest release just because of
           | the camera upgrades.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | Better camera is not just the optical quality or even
         | processing though.
         | 
         | Older phones gets slower, either because of the dying battery
         | (that could be replaced, but many of these people are on
         | subsidized phones so upgrading is baked into their plan), or
         | software bloat slowly creeping on.
         | 
         | When camera boot up, shutter lag or post processing starts to
         | take one sec or two, moving to a newer phone is the obvious
         | option.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | Honestly I know very little about photography but I can easily
         | tell the difference between photos on an iPhone 10 vs 13
        
         | blackoil wrote:
         | > Most of these 38% won't be able to tell the difference
         | between a phone pic taken 5 or more years ago.
         | 
         | That is an arbitrary statement, that came from your biases and
         | not observation. Maybe in best of lighting some 5-year-old
         | photos maybe as good as latest flagship.
        
       | a1o wrote:
       | One thing about the iPhone microphone. I had a beautiful day the
       | other day here with some light drizzle and the sea waves were
       | rocking nicely it was a great sound and the beach was empty.
       | Great feeling. I wanted to record this but I only had my iPhone -
       | was just walking in the beach. So neither the default recording
       | app of the iphone and neither any of the ones I tried, could
       | capture the ocean waves or the sound of the drizzle. I had
       | previously (intentionally) set out to the beach with the intent
       | to capture audio and did so with my Laptop + external mic. My
       | conclusion is that unfortunately that is the way it has to be,
       | and that it's not possible to capture audio on a whim as is with
       | photos.
        
         | pryelluw wrote:
         | Which iPhone model?
        
           | a1o wrote:
           | The experience I described was with the 14 but I also tried
           | in the 15 pro something similar and had same experience.
           | 
           | For now my approach is to use a external microphone with a
           | longer cable and a notebook, and this works, but it would be
           | nice to make this work with the iPhone.
        
             | pryelluw wrote:
             | I daily an (newest model) SE and got some wireless lavalier
             | mics that plug into the lighting port. They work well and
             | were cheap. Have to carry them around. Not name brand or
             | anything. Though I hope to get some from rode.
             | 
             | What do you use for storage?
        
               | a1o wrote:
               | I don't use the phone productively, everything I tried I
               | endup concluding it can't do? So it's only use is
               | complaining about things in hacker news for killing time.
               | 
               | The most recent idea was trying to use it for sounds but
               | I had the mentioned issue. Does the lavalier works for
               | environment sounds or you only use for voice?
        
               | pryelluw wrote:
               | Mostly use it for recording technical talks at Python
               | Atlanta meetups (I'm an organizer). Ambient sounds are
               | not a priority. But I've used it to capture the sounds of
               | a fresh water beach (which sounds much different than
               | salt water). I did have to remove the cover on the phone
               | to be able to do a proper a/b sound test. Maybe your
               | cover isnt helping?
        
         | jdietrich wrote:
         | The problem is that you're trying to record relatively quiet
         | sounds that >99% of people would consider undesirable
         | background noise, so many consumer devices will default to
         | filtering out those sounds and do an excellent job. It would be
         | quite easy for Apple to add a "nature sounds" mode to the
         | recording app and work their computational magic in reverse,
         | but I'm not sure that idea would occur to anyone in a design
         | meeting or make it through review.
         | 
         | If you do want to record those kinds of sounds, the term of art
         | is "field recording" and there's tons of good information
         | available on how to do it well.
        
           | n144q wrote:
           | I believe such a setting exists in the control center for
           | video calls, not sure about recording.
        
           | a1o wrote:
           | Yes, I understand. Currently the way I do is I use my laptop,
           | a T14s, set it to power efficiency (so it barely turns the
           | fans), turn on Audacity, and use an old headset that has a
           | microphone, and a somehow very long cable - the actual rubber
           | on the headset is long gone and I never replaced it. It
           | serves me well but requires a backpack and it's a weird setup
           | - but it works. I occasionally make games, and it's usually a
           | bit hard to find nice chill nature and environment sounds
           | that have a good quality, are calm and are royalty free (and
           | cheap or free), so I end up capturing these sounds myself.
        
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