[HN Gopher] I am rich and have no idea what to do
___________________________________________________________________
I am rich and have no idea what to do
Author : vhiremath4
Score : 826 points
Date : 2025-01-02 22:50 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (vinay.sh)
(TXT) w3m dump (vinay.sh)
| spl757 wrote:
| Philanthropy is an option
| talldayo wrote:
| Absolutely not - that would deprive them of the financial
| support required to work an uncompensated job at DOGE.
| spl757 wrote:
| Good point. I had not considered that angle.
| j4coh wrote:
| Same situation, I truly empathise because it really does seem to
| take a lot of purpose out of everything. What I've found is that
| you need to replace money/salary/financial success optimisation
| (assuming you spent a lot of your life and energy to this point
| focused on these, much like I did) with something else totally
| unconnected with being measured in that way. For me, I am focused
| on proving myself as a guitarist in the local jazz and blues
| scene. These people have no idea how much money I have and
| wouldn't give a shit if they did (I didn't really change my
| lifestyle after getting lucky so it's not obvious). So it's an
| area I can be creative, grow, and still feel like I'm doing
| something. At the same time I'm doing part time consulting,
| mainly for people I worked with in the past who have started
| companies, just to scratch the tech itch. So far so good but I
| can't say yet if it will stick. Maybe for you it's art, music,
| going and getting another unrelated degree, or something along
| those lines? If you have more money than you know what to do
| with, fundraising and supporting good causes can be really
| rewarding. Both in terms of giving back something to your local
| community, and having really nice social elements to it.
|
| One big piece of advice I have is to try to avoid letting others
| in your social network know exactly how successful you've been.
| Everyone starts wanting to pitch you their investment idea and it
| can burn down friendships when their ideas are bad. Being a VC to
| your friends is a path to sadness for everyone.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _Same situation, I truly empathise because it really does
| seem to take a lot of purpose out of everything._
|
| Mainly though if all the purpose-giving focus was on just
| getting money and the related grinding to begin with.
|
| Getting mega-rich didn't take the purpose out of Steve Jobs,
| for example, which was focused on building stuff with some
| specific twist (his idea of good design). Or Steve Wozniak for
| that matter, he found hobbies aplenty. Or take the Rolling
| Stones. Filthy rich, but did they ever give the impression they
| got bored? Or Dylan, equally rich, which doesn't even have the
| extravagant lifestyle of models and exotic vacations and high
| life the Stones had, but is still content to record, jam, play
| concerts etc. into his 80s.
|
| If the person has other interests, from programming to
| mountaineering, and from politics to art, they can still be
| there with or without money. Like the "guitarist in the local
| jazz and blues scene" thing.
| paulpauper wrote:
| Paul Allen comes to mind. makes a hobby buying the most
| expensive artifacts known, as well as a bunch of other stuff
| like starting a band.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| Balmer (and Cuban) seem to love continuing to do other, big
| stuff.
| benatkin wrote:
| > but did they ever give the impression they got bored
|
| It often gets described as _washed up_ rather than _bored_ ,
| but yes.
|
| Dylan is a good contrast.
| metanonsense wrote:
| Been on a Dylan concert a few months ago, and I really
| wondered why he did this to himself, at his age, with his
| money. He seemed so utterly bored.
| coldtea wrote:
| Little to do with age or boredom. He is like that in most
| concerts since he was 20.
|
| It's not being an "entertainer", as his is not Mick
| Jagger's song and dance style
| 101008 wrote:
| This is my dream. Having enough money to be able to dedicate to
| things I like, trying to be good at something without worrying
| about money, or time, or being tired after work.
|
| Open a bookshop, being a rare book dealer, open a small museum
| about an author, research on a particular topic and write
| books...
|
| That would be the ultimate dream, though I am sure I won't ever
| be near to fulfill it.
| david38 wrote:
| Problem then when you get bored, your bookstore still
| requires work.
|
| At a certain level of wealth, any job you can do can be done
| by someone else better and cheaper
| codetrotter wrote:
| After you have the bookstore up and running, you could hire
| a few people to take care of daily operations. It would
| still be your bookshop, and you could drop by every now and
| then and just hang out in the store read some of the books,
| or you could even whenever you felt like getting more
| involved on some days tell your staff that they can take
| the day off if they like and they will still get their pay
| for the day and you'll handle the customers and the
| register. I dunno, this is just how I imagine it could
| work. I'm not rich, and I don't own any bookstore or any
| other kind of shop for that matter so maybe my idea here is
| off the mark.
| 101008 wrote:
| I had a similar idea in mind. Or worst case, if I get
| bored, I can sell it and do something else! I'd have a
| lot of money and time.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| That sounds great.
|
| Many people overly focus on what they want to retire FROM -
| work, but not what they want to retire TO - hobbies/volunteer
| work/etc.
|
| Basic eating healthier, exercising more and consumption-based
| things like travel are not going to fill the gap left by a
| full-time job. One can quickly get bored and/or run out of
| money with that kind of mindset.
|
| Given enough money, or whenever I do retire .. I'd spend my
| time making music, photographs, do even more reading, etc.
| Anything that occupies your time and exercises both your body
| & mind are important.
| econ wrote:
| God, we use to have a street full of people running
| unprofitable stores. Some were deep in debt making the dream
| a reality.
|
| Why not a functional bookshop? You don't need money, you need
| to work on the plan(s). How do museums work? Where is the
| crude draft for the book?
|
| I had a chat with a guy once who had a laundry list of things
| he wanted to accomplish but had convinced himself non of it
| was possible without money. About 1/3 of the list were things
| one could just go do right now.I think a hundred life times
| worth of stuff It was mostly helping people in need. One
| could definitely not help anyone and convince the self it is
| because it always costs money????
|
| Some non profit here was selling unwanted books for 1-2 euro.
| I spend an hour or so typing titles on my phone mostly stuff
| published long ago and bought a whole stack of 200+ euro
| books. I haven't looked at them and didn't try to sell any
| but I'm sure it was money well spend for an hour of fun.
|
| You don't need a machine gun, fight with your bare hands.
| 101008 wrote:
| I used to have an online bookshop, mainly for fun and as a
| side income.
|
| It takes a lot of time and it's very hard if you have a
| full time job.
| econ wrote:
| It might be hard to somewhat gradually switch to part
| time work but if you want a bookstore it's more rewarding
| if you have to struggle to get there.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| Struggle is not the deterrent for most people; risk is.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| Why would you think any of those things are not a lot of
| tiring work, emotional drain and expensive? I don't
| understand why you can't do any of these as a hobby now, and
| need to wait until you're "rich" and won't have any real skin
| in the game.
| lylo wrote:
| Running a bookshop is entirely possible without FU money, but
| it will be hard work and probably not make you much money.
| Read Welcome to the Hyunam-dong Bookshop for inspiration :)
|
| https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/c9fb361a-30ef-45d5-b777-.
| ..
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| I once saw an article about apartments that NYC libraries
| used to have _in the library_ for caretakers. My skipped a
| beat and I realized I 'd never wanted anything more in the
| world than to just be able to 'pop down to the stacks' at
| 10pm to select my next read.
|
| What amazes me is that between audible, kindle, libby, and a
| few other places, we live in a world where books are that
| available from the comfort of a cozy recliner. Truly the
| greatest wonder of the modern age.
| toast0 wrote:
| As I recall from a similar article, some of those
| apartments still exist, and are no longer limited to
| librarians but may still allow access to the library. If
| living in NYC is an option for you, it's probably worth
| getting on their announcement list and be ready to move if
| they have an opening?
| user3939382 wrote:
| > For me, I am focused on proving myself as a guitarist in the
| local jazz and blues scene.
|
| So you're Dickey from The Talented Mr. Ripely?
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| That last point is salient. I grew very rich in the last 3 - 4
| years and I funded a bunch of my friend's startup ideas. Now I
| cannot bear myself to reply to their happy new year wishes
| because how the relationships have soured.
| whatshisface wrote:
| If you're never getting that money back, you might as well
| forgive them and forget it. Then at least you'd keep the
| friends.
| nodesocket wrote:
| I had a friend who I lent money to his startup during
| Covid. He promised would be paid back within a year.
| Multiple hard conversations and it's 4 years later and not
| one cent has been paid back to me. We currently don't speak
| to each other. He's delusional with his startup ideas,
| lives in lala fantasy land. Refuses to get a job and take
| any responsibility. He has zero track record of success, so
| it's somewhat my fault for loaning him money.
| jhghikvhu wrote:
| It's your fault for lending money rather than asking for
| a % of profits (if any) like a normal early investor.
| nodesocket wrote:
| I tend to think having fiscal responsibility, morals and
| not being a shyster as the person who's at fault.
| llamaimperative wrote:
| Never loan money to friends is like "having money 101."
| You can gift it or you can invest it with appropriate
| caveats given to any external investor, but never lend
| it.
|
| This is common advice because it turns good relationships
| bad, that manifests as viewing former friends as shysters
| justinclift wrote:
| Not everyone is like that, though some certainly are.
|
| I've personally lent money to friends when they needed
| it, and been paid back once they got stuff sorted out.
|
| Though in my younger days I was far less careful, so
| lending money did indeed go poorly.
| llamaimperative wrote:
| Of course not everyone is like that. The issue is you
| don't know who is ex ante, and often people _aren't_ that
| way ex ante, but one thing leads to another to a total
| breakdown in trust and respect.
|
| Even in the case you describe, it's much better to gift
| it: "if you want or are able to pay me back some day, go
| for it, but I don't expect or need it."
| bawolff wrote:
| I think the main issue, is that most people are reluctant
| to ask a friend for a loan because its considered in poor
| taste. If they are asking they either have no qalms about
| asking which is a red flag, or they are super desperate
| which probably means its unlikely they would have the
| ability to pay back.
| Cerium wrote:
| Never lend what you would not happily consider a gift.
| j4coh wrote:
| I think this is the best advice. If you are going to fund a
| friend, give them a grant, no strings attached. They can
| return the favour if/when they have the means on their
| terms. Anything else is going to kill your friendship.
| Fomite wrote:
| This. If you're funding your friends, think of yourself
| as a wealthy patron, not a lender or VC.
| Nevermark wrote:
| I did that.
|
| It seemed obvious that it was a small gamble for me, a
| big gamble for my friend, but he was doing all the right
| things.
|
| VCs don't waste time with concerns over failed
| investments.
|
| When you hand over some money, you are accepting the
| risk.
|
| Including complications, which are likely. Treat the
| money like a gamble, not the friendship.
|
| I was really glad I did. My friend created a successful
| business after working toward that with major ups & downs
| for over ten years.
|
| Then he got cancer, and died a year later. I got no money
| back. But it was the best investment I ever made. His
| dream came true and that mattered so much to him. That he
| pulled it off, and his customers loved him and his
| business.
|
| Don't invest in a friend if the investment isn't about
| genuinely helping them.
|
| If you can afford to.
| ToDougie wrote:
| I have complicated feelings about this...... mostly
| reminding me to love. Thank you very much for sharing.
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| It's never even about forgiving. I am not even angry at
| them. What happens is there is now suddenly a pedestal. No
| matter what we do, they know I gave them money. And I know
| they took it. The relationships don't remain the same
| anymore. It's weird.
| charlie0 wrote:
| I can see that. I would personally feel really bad if I
| lost all the money someone gave me. I'd always feel like
| I owe it back. Only exception would be at the very
| beginning, if that was a possibility that was
| acknowledged. However, I've noticed people who start
| these things are always very optimistic and probably
| don't seriously talk about this. To the previous poster,
| the only people who seem to handle this type of thing
| well are the extremely blunt people who are brutally
| honest and upfront about everything. There aren't many of
| them.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Yeah, I wouldn't take money from people I wanted to stay
| friends with for this reason. It's just a bad idea.
| Introduce me to your acquaintances, sure, but lets stay
| friends.
| HeartStrings wrote:
| So did all of their startups fail?
| justinclift wrote:
| Are any of your friends the type that is blunt/honest
| regardless of how things are going?
|
| Personally I've found the problematic ones to be those who
| feel like they're obliged to act deferrentially once money is
| involved.
|
| The blunt/honest ones that don't change their personality
| like that still seem ok.
| asdfman123 wrote:
| People need work to be happy. That doesn't have to be, say,
| office work necessarily: it can be making music full time, or
| volunteering at a hospital, or any number of other things.
|
| But you have to have something keeping you busy that makes you
| feel like you have a purpose.
| j4coh wrote:
| Totally agree. But it can be surprisingly hard to find what
| this is for yourself when you are used to climbing the school
| / corporate / startup ladder your whole life.
| voisin wrote:
| You're on the right track, but I think it's a bit deeper than
| just needing something to work on or stay busy with. I
| effectively retired a few years ago and have spent the time
| since engaging in various "work" across the kinds of
| categories you mention. Yet, all of these efforts have
| carried a sense of purposelessness--a lingering question of
| whether any of it truly matters, especially knowing I could
| stop tomorrow without significantly impacting my wellbeing.
|
| This contrasts sharply with the purpose I felt when I had
| less money and was struggling to build my business. Back
| then, everything felt deeply do-or-die meaningful. Now, no
| amount of exercise, goodwill, or intellectual pursuits
| compares in terms of providing that same sense of purpose.
|
| I don't think humans need the pursuit of money itself to be
| happy, but once the foundational needs in Maslow's hierarchy
| are met, the higher levels often feel less urgent--and,
| paradoxically, less fulfilling. There seems to be diminishing
| returns from "work" as a source of purpose.
| porknubbins wrote:
| As someone who kind of quasi temporarily retired early a
| few times this is the biggest problem I see. I learned
| foreign languages and programming languages out of pure
| necessity to survive and it was thrilling to succeed and
| make money with them.
|
| So everyone (at least me) has this fantasy of how much
| better it would be to learn things on their own schedule
| for pleasure without undue pressure, but they don't realize
| the pressure to survive was what made it feel so meaningful
| without that they soon fall into dilletantism.
|
| For all his issues I think this is why Musk has gotten so
| much done, because he ups the ante enough to feel real risk
| if be fails.
| Animats wrote:
| > So everyone (at least me) has this fantasy of how much
| better it would be to learn things on their own schedule
| for pleasure without undue pressure, but they don't
| realize the pressure to survive was what made it feel so
| meaningful without that they soon fall into dilletantism.
|
| The trick is to find a place between dilletantism and
| burnout.
| rf15 wrote:
| Our species, like all living things, has optimised towards
| struggling through life to the best of their ability (which
| was always limited). To "win" within the already apex
| species of humanity means you are hitting your head on the
| ceiling of what your body and brain was made for, hard.
|
| This is why I stopped striving for success on that scale
| and returned to only work a small software job.
| kalkin wrote:
| > a lingering question of whether any of it truly matters,
| especially knowing I could stop tomorrow without
| significantly impacting my wellbeing.
|
| A suggestion for your consideration, or that of anyone in a
| similar position: give enough of the money away that this
| stops being true, and find fulfilling paid work (not
| necessarily in that order). I strongly suspect, from my own
| experience, that there's an amount of savings that you can
| keep that is adequate to remove any worry about winding up
| on the streets (or being stuck with work that actually
| turns out to suck, etc), without making further earning
| feel pointless to your own comfort. I think there's an
| ethical case for doing this even if it made you less happy,
| but even better if it's win-win.
| throwaway6734 wrote:
| Do you have children? If not, it's a great use of time,
| especially without financial pressure
| tanvach wrote:
| Children are giver of immense sense of satisfaction that's
| totally disconnected to wealth (though being wealthy
| certainly helps). Just remember - no short cuts.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I'm fairly certain children are a much greater giver of
| satisfaction without wealth, because when you have money
| you suddenly feel like you need to provide them all the
| best, whereas if you have none, you only feel like you need
| to keep them alive.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| Like most things in life the need grows to just beyond
| the level you can supply. Maybe someone with nothing
| starts with "keep them alive" but once that's covered you
| move up the hierarchy.
| prmoustache wrote:
| > though being wealthy certainly helps
|
| I think it is worse actually.
| ToDougie wrote:
| Children are the best. The highs in life are orders of
| magnitude higher, and the lows are _so_ much lower. But the
| baseline is incalculably higher. My children have made me
| feel so much more fulfilled. And they have also made me
| better.
| j4coh wrote:
| I do, and I love being available for them. I have time to
| teach my kids music and things I know, which is awesome.
| throwaway6734 wrote:
| love to hear it! In that case, branching out to other
| peoples' children can bring great satisfaction. For
| example, volunteering to teach a class at a local high
| school
| jerojero wrote:
| Seems weird that you have to advice people that they should
| hide their success from people they're befriending.
|
| Living a double life like that doesn't seem right to me. It has
| something to do, perhaps, with the type of people you're
| surrounding yourself with. If someone can't be friends with you
| without asking you for money why are you keeping such people
| around in the first place.
| HKH2 wrote:
| Using discretion or being modest isn't necessarily living a
| double life. I'm sure there are plenty of things you're not
| open about; that doesn't necessarily make you fake, does it?
| jerojero wrote:
| I thought we were talking about friends? Maybe I'm
| misunderstanding the meaning of the word.
|
| I wouldn't imagine being friends with someone and not
| trusting them with knowing how successful I am.
|
| I think maybe, and this might be a cultural thing, a lot of
| people tend to use the word lightly. I simply wouldn't get
| to a stage of being friends with someone I am not able to
| trust in such a way that I have to hide how much money I
| have from them.
| sokoloff wrote:
| My friends can accurately assess my net worth within a
| factor of +/- 5, but where exactly in that range isn't
| necessary for them to know. Even my closest friends
| probably can't reliably put it within +/- a factor of 2
| (nor do they need to for any valid purpose).
| naming_the_user wrote:
| I think the issue here is that with retirement levels of
| money existing friendships can become strained.
|
| If your high school friend earns 50k a year and you earn
| 100 then I mean sure, you have different toys, bigger
| house, whatever, but you're both existing in the same
| universe with similar constraints.
|
| If your high school friend earns 50k a year and you
| suddenly have 60 million like the guy in the post then
| it's more of a test because your lifestyle can just
| differ hugely.
|
| Some people can handle it but with others there will be
| an underlying resentment. There are lots of layers to it.
| They look for work - you look for suitable employees.
|
| Having said that, in my experience there are only really
| a few major cut-offs, one between homeless/terminally
| skint and working, one between working and being able to
| live off of investment income, _maybe_ one at the sort of
| bodyguard required super famous level. Inside those it's
| just sort of like, yeah ok, your car/yacht/jet/whatever
| is better than mine, cool.
| JohnMakin wrote:
| It doesn't have to be super drastic - When I graduated
| college and got a decent job, most of my social group was
| making less than a full time minimum wage salary,
| bouncing around couches, or staying with parents - with
| no hope of it improving. I felt the resentment a lot,
| even though it was subtle, and constantly felt obligated
| to pick up checks if we did anything I wanted to do,
| because what I could afford to spend on an outing was
| significantly different. Then that builds resentment over
| time, etc. People don't like seeing people with more
| "stuff" than they have at a really deep level. Looking
| back I am not sure that I could have done much to salvage
| it, the only friends that survived out of that era were
| the ones that were able to bring themselves out of their
| situation as well.
| j4coh wrote:
| I've never shared my specific financial details with any
| friend, before or after, so perhaps a different
| definition of what it means to be a friend. I haven't
| bought a bunch of expensive crap that would give it away.
| j4coh wrote:
| It's not about living a double life. I don't secretly blow
| cash on hookers and blow, I just live a pretty modest normal
| life and don't talk about the details of my investments or
| means. Mainly I don't have to worry about anything really.
| codetrotter wrote:
| > I'm doing part time consulting, mainly for people I worked
| with in the past who have started companies, just to scratch
| the tech itch
|
| How do you pick you hourly rate? If a friend of yours of the
| past came to you and asked you to consult for him, and your
| friend offered you say $80 USD per hour, would you find it
| offensively low? For someone who doesn't have a lot and wants
| to hire consultants for their small projects, I think offering
| $80 USD per hour is not bad. But I'm curious to know how that
| amount feels to a potential consultant if the consultant
| already had a lot. Or do you prefer taking a percentage of
| shares in your friend's company as pay? Or something else?
| j4coh wrote:
| I am happy to take whatever they offer (including helping for
| free) depending on where they are at. I don't need it really
| and I'm happy to help. But most people at least that I've
| worked with are happy to do what's fair. I haven't ended up
| in a hostile negotiation or anything close to it.
| ska wrote:
| FWIW I've done similar for friends who are on a tight budget
| , consulting for 1/2, 1/3 1/5 "regular" rate. Sometimes with
| equity but not always.
|
| I'm nowhere near rich, but when I was consulting full time of
| I had enough hours to hit my "ok" target for the year, it
| felt right to be flexible with some of the rest of my time
| ...
| rramadass wrote:
| > How do you pick you hourly rate?
|
| A fair formula that i was given years ago is;
|
| Take the annual salary you would be paid if you were an
| employee, add 30% to it for overhead/profit and divide by 48
| (working weeks in a year) to get your weekly rate. Divide by
| 40hrs to get the hourly rate.
|
| Another one is to take your annual salary, divide by 250
| (working days in a year) to get your daily rate and increase
| that by 30%, billing in daily units.
|
| The above formula can and should be tweaked based on the
| project, client, your needs etc.
| ska wrote:
| The tricky thing about formulas like this is that it is
| very domain dependent.
|
| What you describe is a reasonable approach for a freelancer
| who expects to bill most working hours. It falls apart for
| a lot of consulting scenarios where you bill fewer hours
| and spend more time generating work. In that case you may
| be better off setting rates so that e.g. 1000 billed hours
| will reach your base target salary equivalent...
| rramadass wrote:
| I did say the formula would need to be tweaked as needed
| ...
|
| OTOH, this is more or less how clients themselves expect
| to be billed so if you deviate too much without any
| logical explanation, they will simply go elsewhere.
| madmask wrote:
| If you are already "FIRE" and do it for fun, or you can
| schedule all 40h per week on billable work this works but I
| would increase by 50%.
|
| If you need to do marketing to get clients, meet clients,
| etc to close contracts then I guess you should expect only
| about 20h per week of billable work as the rest is on you.
| So you need to at least double the hourly rate.
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| > One big piece of advice I have is to try to avoid letting
| others in your social network know exactly how successful
| you've been.
|
| The time to do that was _before_ writing a blog post titled "I
| am rich" and submitting it to HN
| Aeolun wrote:
| Well, you can make new friends. I have no idea what actual
| name is behind vinay.sh :?
| YouWhy wrote:
| The domain name is consistent with the name of one of the
| founders of the mentioned startup, Loom.
| semitones wrote:
| If you're running a popular company then people will
| easily have a good understanding of the ballpark of your
| net worth anyway
| WalterBright wrote:
| I'm not so sure. You can run it with 90% equity, or 10%
| equity.
| herval wrote:
| in this case (given it was reportedly sold for $975m
| cash), that would mean your friends think you either have
| $877m or $97m (he reportedly net $60m, which means your
| most pessimistic friend thinks you have more money than
| you actually have?)
| divbzero wrote:
| Yes, Loom is also mentioned by the author of the blog
| post.
| distances wrote:
| How many new friends would look up what Loom was, though?
| This blog post was the first time I heard of it, so seems
| very unlikely that a random person would really care.
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| I learned about Loom from a pirate on Monkey Island who
| asked me to ask him about it.
| tasuki wrote:
| If the long-term CTO was your friend, you think you
| wouldn't hear about it? I generally have some idea about
| what my friends do professionally.
| freetonik wrote:
| The about page links to his Twitter which shows the full
| name.
|
| Funnily enough, the link is to a tweet describing how he
| wired all his money to his parents.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| They already know who he is, he was a public figure executive
| that sold his company, everyone in his social circle would
| know what Loom was and would read in the news how much it
| sold for.
| i_am_a_peasant wrote:
| One thing you could do is give me 20k no strings attached so I
| can stop paying for my parents screw ups from when I was 20 :))
| that will make me a lot less resentful towards life's stupid
| dice.
| justinclift wrote:
| > you need to replace money/salary/financial success
| optimisation
|
| Kind of ironic, but that kind of sounds like the people who've
| been saying those things aren't the most important in life
| might have been right all along?
| fakedang wrote:
| To access the others, you need to have good
| money/salary/financial success, oftentimes.
|
| Heck even for good therapy, you need to have those.
| fossuser wrote:
| There's something off about the post that I'm not sure I can
| pin point, but it's there.
|
| What are these oft referenced insecurities? It's hard to get a
| read on this without details, but dumping your girlfriend to do
| random selfish shit (climb mountain, go to Hawaii, etc.) - it's
| not a surprise he's unfulfilled (though working on doge would
| be exciting).
|
| This trap of 'working on yourself' that leads to endless
| mindfulness and narcissism leads you to become aloof. People
| tend to derive purpose from community, friends, and family.
| This is what religion used to give people independent of the
| pseudoscience.
|
| Being financially independent is great, but it doesn't bring
| fulfillment.
|
| A long way to say spend time with friends, work on a
| relationship, get married, have kids. People can do what they
| want, but most people will likely be the most content doing
| this. If you can find something to work on you're also excited
| about great, can do that too.
|
| You can only dick around traveling and 'finding yourself' for
| so long, it gets old and repetitive.
| Tepix wrote:
| How long have you travelled the world?
| paganel wrote:
| Not the OP, but after a certain age (mid 30s in my case)
| traveling just becomes cumbersome, i.e. when you realize
| that there are no big insights about oneself that can be
| gained via traveling that can't also be gotten back at
| home, surrounded by friends/family and a couple of good
| books.
| prmoustache wrote:
| There are people traveling the world all their life
| because that is what they love to do.
| Tainnor wrote:
| This sounds an awful lot like you're generalising from
| your experiences to other people's.
|
| I'm also in my mid 30s and I still find travelling eye
| opening in a way that books are not (and I do read a lot,
| including when I travel). And on my last trip I met a
| retired couple who spent three weeks traveling in their
| car and they told me they used to have a boat with which
| they'd sail around the world.
| Tepix wrote:
| Well, i beg to differ. And i'm older than that. In my
| view, we have a very limited time to live, and
| experiencing the amazing planet we're on in all its
| variety is one of the best things one can do.
| paganel wrote:
| You're just scratching the surface of said amazing
| planet, you're not experiencing anything of value that
| you couldn't have experienced back home. There's a real
| good essay on the emptiness of tourism written by
| Siegfried Kracauer back in the 1930s, just as mass
| tourism was beginning to take off, _Travel and Dance_ [1]
| is called, it is still highly relevant almost 100 years
| later.
|
| [1] English version from a spammy website here: https://w
| ww.academia.edu/25240089/Siegfried_Kracauer_Travel_... ,
| Spanish version from a real website here:
| https://antroposmoderno.com/antro-version-
| imprimir.php?id_ar...
| abc123abc123 wrote:
| Amen! Travelling is just virtue signalling and social
| posturing. I've travelled the world, way too much for
| both business and "pleasure" and there's nothing new, no
| hidden insights, that I couldn't have gotten at home.
|
| I advice all people I meet to stop travelling, and to
| spend more time with themselves and explore their inside,
| instead of being captivated by the outside, like a child
| by a new shiny toy.
|
| The world would truly be a better place if that ever
| happened.
| mrandish wrote:
| > One big piece of advice I have is to try to avoid letting
| others in your social network know exactly how successful
| you've been.
|
| Having lived through this arc myself, this is excellent advice.
| While the most enlightened/mature people have no problem just
| being happy for you, this still leaves a lot people for who a
| significant disparity in wealth/success becomes a problem. It
| ends up impacting the nature of your relationship with them in
| subtle but significant ways and it can be very hard to get
| past. I've found it's just better to avoid the issue by being
| as stealth as possible about wealth (while still being honest
| and true to yourself).
| tasuki wrote:
| Or, stop being friends with those people?
|
| I'm good friends with some very rich people. Everyone knows
| they have money. They learned how to say no, and how to let
| go of people who just want to milk them for cash.
| survirtual wrote:
| Anyone who has "more money than they know what to do with" is a
| fool. There is an unlimited set of things to do with large
| resource allocation. Depending on the magnitude of that
| resource allocation, the set increases exponentially.
|
| It shows a total lack of introspection as well as connections
| with the people, the Earth, and the universe as a whole.
|
| Go eat some psychedelics and travel inside yourself for a
| while. Listen to what a tree far in a forest has to say. You'll
| know what to do with your dragon hoard in no time, I guarantee
| it.
| cwalv wrote:
| It's true that there are infinite ways to waste a fortune,
| but that doesn't mean you're a fool for not having decided
| how to spend your money. I'd actually argue that it'd be more
| foolish to go figure out what to spend it on "in no time"
| smokedetector1 wrote:
| Therapy. Wealth and success is one of the most massive crutches
| there is. It can make it almost impossible to be truly in touch
| with your insecurities and pain because its simply too easy to
| hide in your victory. Your toughest challenge now is to, despite
| your wealth, find a way to contact the pain that drove you to
| your hunger for success. As the bible said, it's easier for a
| camel to get through the head of a needle than for a rich man to
| go to heaven. I interpret that metaphorically.
| ipaddr wrote:
| "eye of the needle" refers to a small gate or passage in
| ancient city walls, used after the main gates were closed at
| night. A camel could only pass through this narrow opening if
| it was unloaded of its baggage and possibly crawled through on
| its knees.
|
| Not as hard or impossible as it first appears but still harder.
| smokedetector1 wrote:
| Even better, thanks for that explanation
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| Except it's not true, that's a myth.
| coldtea wrote:
| It's not true though (and no evidence that such a gate
| existed with that name).
|
| It's more likely exaggeration referring to actual camel
| (the large animal of the area) and the eye of a needle (an
| example of the smallest hole one would be readily familiar
| with at the time).
|
| If it was reffering to a named place, the very capable in
| both Jewish and Greek authors of the New Testament wouldn't
| have translated it as "trupematos Raphidos" (needle's
| opening) or "trumalias Raphidos" (needle's hole), as
| opposed to something like "narrow gate" or similar that
| would convey to people unfamiliar with Jerusalem the point.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| This is categorically false:
| https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTYveLPTC/
|
| Also it just doesn't make sense.
| gosub100 wrote:
| there are better citations than tiktok, please.
| ksenzee wrote:
| In this case the video is a bona fide Biblical scholar
| who does public outreach on TikTok. It's a good source.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Oh yeah, I just clicked the link and it's Dan McClellan.
| Maybe TikTok isn't the best place to cite, but he's
| highly credible in terms of Biblical scholarship and
| history.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| No one asked for your opinion on TikTok.
| vFunct wrote:
| The source is Dan Mccllelan, not TikTok. TikTok didn't
| publish this, Dan did. TikTok is the medium, not the
| author.
|
| Otherwise it's like complaining about citing "words
| printed on paper" when citing a book or journal.
| gosub100 wrote:
| It's just an unsuitable, attention-zapping, toxic format
| for sharing information. It would be best to link to an
| article that can convey the full message. not a 15 second
| jolt which is what TT is all about.
| vFunct wrote:
| The opposite. It would be unsuitable to link to a long-
| form article when a 15 second TikTok video would convey
| the relevant information just fine.
|
| What exactly was incorrect about Dans video? (He's great
| BTW)
|
| These new information medium was invented for a reason,
| in particular, the economic efficiency of conveying
| information.
|
| I would suggest people learn to use them.
| gosub100 wrote:
| why are you on a written forum right now? why aren't you
| making 15 second videos with rapidly changing frames?
| vFunct wrote:
| It's because I am posting lower effort content here than
| on TikTok.
|
| Want higher quality content? Then go to TikTok.
|
| The best part is you couldn't answer what was wrong with
| Dan's content.
| poncho_romero wrote:
| If you prefer, he does a long form podcast called Data
| Over Dogma that is skeptical and informative. He uses
| TikTok because there are loads of people on the platform
| spewing misinformation about the Bible. He's meeting
| people where they are with empirical information
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > "eye of the needle" refers to a small gate or passage in
| ancient city walls,
|
| There's a lot of discussion on this verse. Apparently, the
| gate interpretation didn't exist until the 11 century.
|
| It was rethought to be Rope for a while but this blog post
| discredits that.
| https://kiwihellenist.blogspot.com/2023/11/camel.html
| Trasmatta wrote:
| From what I understand, this is actually highly debated among
| biblical scholars.
|
| This idea that he meant "it's hard but not impossible" seems
| to generally be pushed by wealthy religions and "prosperity
| gospel" types.
|
| Reading everything else Jesus said, I find it more likely
| that he literally meant the "eye of an actual needle". He did
| not seem to be a fan of the rich or powerful in any way.
| BalinKing wrote:
| Yeah, Jesus clarifies as such a few verses later:
|
| > Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is
| _impossible_ , but with God all things are possible."
| (Matthew 19:26, CSB, emphasis mine)
| saulpw wrote:
| It's not impossible for a rich person to develop
| spiritually and attain heaven. They just have to give up
| all their riches. So functionally it is easier for a camel
| to do this other equivalent nearly-impossible thing.
| swat535 wrote:
| In a Catholic and the way those verses are interpreted is
| that it's not that you have to give up all your money but
| give up greed, it basically means that you should not
| worship your wealth but place your highest of high
| towards God, then and only then you can use your wealth
| towards the Good as you have no more attachments.
|
| I think Protestant have similar interpretations but I
| could be wrong as they have many denominations.
| astura wrote:
| >I think Protestant have similar interpretations
|
| Lol, I see you've never heard of the prosperity gospel
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
|
| "Protestant" is such a broad group of beliefs it's nearly
| impossible to make any sort of board assertion.
| bccdee wrote:
| > They just have to give up all their riches.
|
| Well, then they aren't rich anymore, and the camel
| doesn't need to pass through the eye of the needle.
| Problem solved.
| Aeolun wrote:
| To be fair, needles at the time probably weren't as fine as
| they are these days, so you may still have a gap a
| millimeter across instead of a fraction of that.
| thfuran wrote:
| That's still too small for the average camel.
| relaxing wrote:
| Jesus literally told his followers to give up their worldly
| possessions, but... sure. He intended to give a free pass to
| those who came after, that hinged on a quirk of city planning
| that would not exist until centuries later.
| cushychicken wrote:
| I never knew that. Makes the metaphor a lot more applicable.
| bccdee wrote:
| A common myth! No, no gate or passage was ever referred to as
| "the eye of the needle" in antiquity. [1] That verse is
| intended to be taken literally. Jesus Christ was quite
| outspoken on his feelings about the wealthy, but of course,
| wealthy Christians need a way for him to have meant something
| figurative when he told them to surrender their worldly
| riches.
|
| [1]: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/new-testament-
| studie...
| aitchnyu wrote:
| There is a hypothesis the Greek word means rope instead of
| camel, that the parable means we cant thread a rope through a
| needle.
|
| Arabic word for camel and rope are same in a similar verse.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_a_needle
| fuzztester wrote:
| Angels dancing on the head of a pin is another related one.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on...
| martinpw wrote:
| This one was originally used to mock scholars who debated
| such seemingly obscure minutae at the expense of more
| pressing issues, the canonical example being theological
| debate during the fall of Constantinople. But I remember
| reading somewhere that this debate was actually for a good
| reason since Constantinople were looking for help from fellow
| Christians against the Ottomans but needed to convince the
| potential helpers that their beliefs were closely enough
| aligned enough to warrant them giving aid. Hoping someone
| here might know more (and apologies for derailing the thread
| even further...)
| BalinKing wrote:
| > it's easier for a camel to get through the head of a needle
| than for a rich man to go to heaven. I interpret that
| metaphorically.
|
| I agree that there's a parallel between what Jesus meant and
| your comment--in both cases, wealth is dangerous because it
| distracts from what's important. To my understanding, Jesus
| meant that one's heart will be focused on money rather than
| wanting to follow God. And, like you said, it's _really_ easy
| to be distracted by material success (money, degrees, fame,
| etc.). But, none of these things will follow us to the grave.
| IMO this sort of tunnel vision is really pernicious, because it
| 's so, so easy to fall into.
|
| If you'll allow a personal rant: I recently heard someone say
| that failure is--somewhat paradoxically--a crucial part of
| finding happiness, because it loosens our grip on things that
| are ultimately unimportant. I've been thinking about all this a
| lot recently myself. Last year I hit a bump in the road w.r.t.
| my career, due to factors outside of my control. So, for the
| first time, I was suddenly failing my subconscious goal to
| climb the ladder of achievement. I started feeling adrift and
| demotivated, and the obvious solutions (therapy, medication,
| more regular exercise) didn't help.
|
| It eventually forced me to really sit down and take a hard look
| at my priorities in life. Speaking concretely, this meant 1)
| accepting that I might not get what I had wanted out of my
| career, and because I'm a Christian, 2) focusing instead on how
| I can serve God every day (love others more, be much more open
| about my faith, volunteer at church and elsewhere, etc.).
| That's much easier said than done, of course, but I've just
| gotta take the baby steps that I can and trust God with the
| rest.
|
| It's only been a few months since I came to this conclusion,
| but I feel like it's changed my life. I've become much less
| stressed, and I feel much more fulfilled. Honestly, it's like I
| have hope again in my future.
|
| Naively I want to say something like "therefore, everyone
| should try to find whatever brings them this fulfillment." But
| this might be too weak of a statement, because I really think
| there's only one true answer to this question.
|
| P.S. As for the verse you quoted (Matthew 19:24), I'd be remiss
| not to point out what Jesus says a few verses later: "With man
| this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." :-)
| smokedetector1 wrote:
| I'm not Christian but I definitely resonate with what you're
| saying about failure sometimes being a gift, if you can make
| use of it.
|
| I wish I could be more religious, in a sense, but I just
| can't get my head around the concept of "serving" or
| "fearing" god. It's not how I relate to "the divine" at all.
| Power to you, though.
| akomtu wrote:
| A rich man won't be attracted to heaven in the first place, for
| it's a place for people who enjoy giving something to others
| and rarely think about themselves. Hell, on the other hand,
| would mesmerize a typical man of ambition for it's a world of
| selfish might and power.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| This is pretty close to ancient eastern christian views on
| heaven and hell. In that view heaven and hell are the same
| situation: full exposure to the unattenuated light of god. A
| righteous & repentant person will experience that as love and
| mercy, and an unjust person will experience it as fear, shame
| & torture. But all get the same "treatment" so to speak.
| hnmullany wrote:
| Therapy = Exactly. He thinks he has freedom and agency but he's
| just being puppeteered by conflicting subconscious forces he
| doesn't understand and seems to have no insight into. This is a
| man who's in a self-driving car turning a steering wheel that's
| connected to nothing.
| marnett wrote:
| Volunteer in your community. You need to find a way to evaluate
| your self worth by serving someone other than yourself.
| chromakode wrote:
| Sounds like a good time to engage a professional coach or
| therapist, if you haven't already. Particularly to deep dive on
| the questions asked at the end of the post. In my experience, I
| often stalemate these kinds of internal debates on my own, but
| having a second player in the mix got me out of the gridlock.
| vnl wrote:
| I think you should start investing in companies and then possibly
| get some drive there helping others make it. Sometimes it is nice
| to give back to the community I think
|
| If you do think that can be given a try then hey.. we (my wife
| and me, my wife more than me) are looking to build something and
| could do with some investment to take that risk.
| smnrg wrote:
| Opposite problem. I am tied to a corporate job, and I'd
| absolutely know how to use every second. No, really. Every
| second.
| linotype wrote:
| Seems like you two should help each other out!
| Reubend wrote:
| Something that would be fulfilling to one man might seem
| useless or boring to another.
| smnrg wrote:
| The reality is that only he can help himself. He's just
| facing the search he delayed up to now. It's good he's facing
| it. Most never will.
| mesmertech wrote:
| I mean if you're looking for a todo list, travelling to third
| world countries and tipping just like $5 for normal service and
| seeing people's eyes light up is fun.
| gosub100 wrote:
| I did this once in a restaurant in a small town in Mexico. I
| called one of the service people (not even a waiter, this was a
| casual joint where you order at the counter), slipped them
| $100, and watched their face light up. it was cool.
| yakshaving_jgt wrote:
| You don't need $60m to do that.
|
| I'll bet literally every person here in the comments can do
| that.
| panarky wrote:
| Wealth makes it even more difficult to figure out what to do with
| your life.
|
| It's almost as if you can either have wealth/comfort or
| purpose/fulfillment, but it's vanishingly rare to have both at
| the same time.
| uoaei wrote:
| For the record, the implication here is, put pithily, you have
| to sell your soul to get rich.
| ipaddr wrote:
| They are unrelated. You can have purpose and fulfillment
| regardless of your wealth. A life of pain and misery are not
| required.
| jongjong wrote:
| Yes, feels like the invisible hand selects people to get rich
| based on how unfulfillable they are and thus how likely they
| are to keep working after they get rich.
|
| I understand this serves an inflation control mechanism in our
| highly unequal system. The wealthy have comparatively so much
| money that the system cannot afford them to spend like normal
| people would. It would put too much currency in circulation and
| cause massive inflation. The system needs the wealthy to keep
| investing in ventures to create more busy-work, filled with
| NPCs and insatiable people who will also create more busy-work
| if they get rich.
|
| The system needs to keep the money circulating in a very tight
| loop. Its journey from the money printer back to government
| hands needs to be very short in order to allow the government
| and corporations to retain the increasing degree of control
| that they need to maintain the status quo.
| stavros wrote:
| This is such an American thing that I find it hard to respond
| to, because these cultural things feel universal when you're
| swimming in them.
|
| Wealth doesn't make it difficult to figure out what to do with
| your life if you never thought wealth is the goal. The problem
| is that the sole life goal for this person was to get rich, and
| now that's the endgame, and he doesn't know what to do.
|
| If the goal, instead, was to have fun, to foster a strong
| social circle, good relationships, to do things for and with
| them, to have hobbies, to learn new things, to challenge
| yourself, etc, he'd just think "oh cool, now I can do more of
| those without having to spend X hours a day working".
| s5300 wrote:
| >> This is such an American thing that I find it hard to
| respond to,
|
| It is actually a thinly veiled
| sociopath/psychopath/narcissist that has fully bought into
| hyper-capitalism being the endgame of humanity thing.
| vishalontheline wrote:
| It's okay. Keep learning, searching, asking questions, trying to
| find answers. Some questions are answered by starting a new
| company. Others are answered by going on a vacation to Hawaii and
| learning Physics in the jungle. Sometimes both. Sometimes
| neither. The idle mind is the devil's playground. So, stay busy,
| stay hungry, and keep searching.
| OutOfHere wrote:
| This now is your moment to improve the lives of other people in
| scalable cost-efficient ways, in improving the human condition.
| It may not be obvious how, but it will come to you if you try.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| I am pretty sure he thought volunteering for the Department of
| Government Efficiency was an attempt to do this
| OutOfHere wrote:
| And the point exactly is that one can often accomplish more
| when one has more freedom in a lead capacity, as opposed to
| being a random worker bee in a larger group. Things don't
| have to be this way, but they often are.
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| You've won the competition, and you've found it meaningless.
| Maybe you could work on helping others do meaningful things with
| _their_ lives, rather than being forced to grind and grind and
| grind their lives away.
|
| I don't suggest mere philanthropy, but structural change. (The
| nature of which I will not attempt to dictate; after all,
| identifying the _problem_ doesn 't mean I know a solution.)
| oulipo wrote:
| Understanding than being rich was never the answer, community and
| sense of purpose is.
|
| You can be a rich asshole.
|
| And you can "just get by" but be the most loved grand-father the
| earth has borne.
| fuzztester wrote:
| >asshole
|
| https://www.cse.cuhk.edu.hk/~cslui/JOKE/leader.html
| Frummy wrote:
| Idk read "the monk who sold his ferrari" or something not that i
| have (read book, or ferrari) Also
| youtube.com/watch?v=GmJI6qIqURA&t=15m14s but for millionaire
| equivalent instead of billionaire
|
| e: advice comes in all shapes and forms. you want me to lie to
| him? what would buddha do
| xt00 wrote:
| His attention span won't be enough to stick with physics for
| longer than 4 weeks.. he should just apply his skills in building
| companies to hire a couple of people to work on cool stuff that
| he is excited about. A good approach is to find some smart grad
| students at a local university who are in electrical engineering
| probably since you have to know lots of physics to get there and
| say "hey i have some money, want to build some cool prototypes?"
| and the best part is you can just ask those grad students how all
| this physics stuff works and they will happily tell you whatever
| you want to know.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| What if the local university killed its electrical engineering
| program after a hurricane?
| stavros wrote:
| Wealth only makes it hard to figure out what to do with your life
| if you believe wealth is a goal.
|
| Wealth is something that removes obstacles to figuring out what
| to do with your life. If you had "being wealthy" as the goal
| itself, no wonder you're now feeling aimless. Instead, you should
| have been living your life, and now you'd think "great, now I can
| continue doing what I've been doing, except I don't need to worry
| about money".
|
| Work shouldn't be your life. At most, work should be an
| interesting thing you do for the challenge, and which you'd do
| even if you weren't getting paid to.
| desireco42 wrote:
| Excellent! Find 5 people who need your help, advice and funds and
| give them both, but slowly. You will enjoy it.
|
| I almost wrote young people, but any will do, if they are
| stuggling and are confused where you have clarity, you can be of
| immense help.
|
| Maybe getting back with that amazing girlfriend wouldn't be bad
| idea, but that is beyond :) this post.
| desireco42 wrote:
| I hear that Coach Jake also can help a lot ;)
|
| https://completionistacademy.com/meet_coach_jake
|
| for real though
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| You could make art, perhaps? Some people find that helps with
| developing purpose beyond the immediate.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| > NPC coworkers
|
| I very much dislike the trend of calling other people NPCs.
|
| When you feel tempted to see someone else as an NPC, it might be
| helpful to remember the concept of "sonder":
|
| > _the realization that each random passerby is living a life as
| vivid and complex as your own--populated with their own
| ambitions, friends, routines, worries and inherited craziness--an
| epic story that continues invisibly around you like an anthill
| sprawling deep underground, with elaborate passageways to
| thousands of other lives that you'll never know existed, in which
| you might appear only once, as an extra sipping coffee in the
| background, as a blur of traffic passing on the highway, as a
| lighted window at dusk._
|
| https://www.dictionaryofobscuresorrows.com/post/23536922667/...
| gigatexal wrote:
| Yeah. Red flag for sure. Therapy is this arm-chair doctor's
| recommendation.
| dang wrote:
| I agree it's an unpleasant trend but please let's not cross
| into personal attack ourselves.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Fair enough, I'll edit my comment to just call out my dislike
| of the term without making it personal about the author.
|
| (for anyone seeing this later, my comment above was
| originally more of an attack on the author, which is what
| dang was rightly calling out.)
| drawkward wrote:
| Then maybe take the whole post itself down?
| dang wrote:
| I don't see any need. The thread is ok on the whole.
|
| On HN, the onus is on commenters not to react to the bits
| they find most provocative. There's even a site guideline
| about that: " _Please don 't pick the most provocative
| thing in an article or post to complain about in the
| thread. Find something interesting to respond to instead._"
| - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| drawkward wrote:
| I am referring to the post itself, not the thread, where
| the writer seems to be pretty sociopathic in his
| dismissal of the inner lives of others as NPCs.
|
| _That_ is truly insulting.
| cuku0078 wrote:
| Perhaps you should consider exploring the path of religion or
| spirituality. Faith has a way of providing inner peace and
| grounding. As humans, we are inherently designed to seek meaning
| through connection, building a family, and raising children.
| Watching them grow can bring a profound sense of purpose and
| fulfillment that no material success can replace. This might be
| the key to rediscovering what truly matters in life.
| angoragoats wrote:
| > Faith has a way of providing inner peace and grounding.
|
| The fact that people can believe things via "faith" that have
| no empirical basis in reality scares me. It certainly doesn't
| provide any inner peace or grounding to me.
| marnett wrote:
| Humans are animals. Spiritual animals.
|
| As for faith, why do we all toil when, in godless philosophy,
| everything we do is fundamentally meaningless? Why do you
| persist? What is that reason, if not illogical faith in some
| purpose. Read Camus.
| angoragoats wrote:
| > Humans are animals. Spiritual animals.
|
| I have no idea what "spiritual" means in this context, so
| until you can clearly define that, my position is: no,
| we're just animals.
|
| > As for faith, why do we all toil when, in godless
| philosophy, everything we do is fundamentally meaningless?
| Why do you persist? What is that reason, if not illogical
| faith in some purpose. Read Camus.
|
| I don't believe I (or anyone else) have any fundamental
| purpose for existing. If you have evidence to the contrary,
| please share.
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| "it is difficult to imagine how the human mind could
| function without the conviction that there is something
| irreducibly real in the world; and it is impossible to
| imagine how consciousness could appear without conferring
| a meaning on man's impulses and experiences.
| Consciousness of a real and meaningful world is
| intimately connected with the discovery of the sacred.
| Through experience of the sacred, the human mind has
| perceived the difference between what reveals itself as
| being real, powerful, rich, and meaningful and what lacks
| these qualities, that is, the chaotic and dangerous flux
| of things, their fortuitous and senseless appearances and
| disappearances"
|
| Eliade, Mircea. The Quest: History and Meaning in
| Religion. University of Chicago Press, 1984
|
| Now, while Eliade's word is not final, I think it touches
| on your question of what spiritual means in the context
| of mankind. Being a spiritual animal means being an
| animal embodied with consciousness, an animal that is
| aware of its existence in both space AND time.
|
| Eliade is a great read for a number of reasons but the
| best reason is because he can be read from an atheistic
| or religious perspective and his passages are no less
| revelatory. If you want to believe that there is no
| purpose to existing that is fine, I wouldn't recommend
| it, but that is fine. But that doesn't take away from the
| fact that consciousness transcends evolutionary necessity
| and by that nature alone deserves serious and legitimate
| thought and preservation.
| angoragoats wrote:
| This quotation appears to just replace the word
| "spiritual" with "sacred," another word that I find to
| have nebulous meaning. It contains a lot of words, but
| appears to be saying vanishingly little of substance. Or
| maybe it's just over my head.
|
| > Being a spiritual animal means being an animal embodied
| with consciousness, an animal that is aware of its
| existence in both space AND time.
|
| So, you're defining "spiritual" as "conscious." That's
| fine, but why not say "conscious"? It's clearer that way.
|
| Under this definition, I agree that we are spiritual
| (conscious) animals.
|
| But I'm willing to bet that the original poster I
| responded to used the word "spiritual" in a different
| sense than you do, which is a problem. When you both sort
| out what you're actually saying, let me know!
|
| Edit to add one more point:
|
| > But that doesn't take away from the fact that
| consciousness transcends evolutionary necessity
|
| I think the phrase "evolutionary necessity" is
| problematic on its own from a biological perspective, but
| even if we ignore that, do you have any sources for this
| claim?
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| I believe the original quotation used sacred because
| "spiritual" implies spirit or soul, whereas all
| ideologies do not align with that specifically. I could
| be mistaken though.
|
| I don't think it's over your head I just think it's
| academic literary fluff from Eliade, but at its core it
| breaks down that developing consciousness meant that we
| also developed methods to conceptualize something that
| was more real than reality itself. For example, numbers
| do not "exist" in reality, but represent reality more
| accurately than it represents itself most of the time.
| That's why they're so useful.
|
| There are truths that are abstracted out of reality, that
| is a commonplace in human existence - sacred, spiritual,
| divine, esoteric, whatever you want to call it, there is
| an innate connection between humankind and something that
| is beyond humankind (a sort of meta-reality) and that
| relationship has aided our development since the dawn of
| consciousness. Connecting that to any one religion would
| be a fools errand but it does describe how our very being
| is tied to something more than just the damned physical
| world, more than just animalistic instinct. It's all
| abstraction.
|
| That is my interpretation anyway.
|
| >So, you're defining "spiritual" as "conscious."
|
| Good callout, I wasn't very specific. I think conscious
| is the baseline reality, it makes being spiritual a
| possibility. A prerequisite. Being spiritual would be the
| willingness to use that consciousness to abstract
| specifically on the human condition, and voluntarily
| conclude that we ourselves have a part to play in
| something that is more real than the reality in front of
| us.
|
| I can't speak for the original poster, but I am still
| developing what I consider to be my spiritual knowledge,
| and I don't foresee myself learning all there is to be
| known any time soon. Still young in that regard.
|
| Edit for your edit on transcending evolutionary
| necessity: No sources, but let's say even if, for
| example, the theory that consciousness emerged in early
| hominids as a side effect of a brain that rapidly grew to
| visually detect snakes[1], even in that scenario
| consciousness is still the side effect. And that means
| that a prerequisite to spiritual abstraction would be
| just an evolutionary side effect.
|
| We still do not understand the evolutionary emergence of
| consciousness and why it appears to be so rare, so I'm
| not going to act like I have the answers there. But
| billions of years passed on earth before a human first
| questioned their place in the universe, and to me that is
| self-evidence of a lack of evolutionarily necessity. I
| understand if that conclusion is not solid enough for
| most though.
|
| 1. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5081170/
| angoragoats wrote:
| Yeah, all of this gets a big fat [citation needed] from
| me. I don't even know what a bunch of this stuff means.
| "Conceptualize something more real than reality itself"
| is nonsensical on its face, and you go on to describe
| numbers, which are simply an abstraction we use out of
| convenience, not anything that is "more real than reality
| itself" as far as I'm aware.
|
| I don't know what "beyond humankind" means in this
| context, and I don't know what "our very being tied to
| something more than the physical world" means.
|
| Again, maybe it's just over my head, but can you clearly
| explain what you mean by all of these things?
|
| > Being spiritual would be the willingness to use that
| consciousness to abstract specifically on the human
| condition, and voluntarily conclude that we ourselves
| have a part to play in something that is more real than
| the reality in front of us.
|
| And yeah, I'm definitely not in agreement with us being
| "spiritual" under this definition, because the premise
| that it's possible for something to be "more real than
| the reality in front of us" doesn't make any sense to me.
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| I'm not sure what you would like in the way of citations.
| Abstracting on its own operates outside of the physical
| world, the world of ideas is different than the physical
| world of events. You can choose to believe these are just
| electrical signals in the brain, nothing more, and that
| is the physical world, but my entire tangent here has
| been that I don't believe that, and why.
|
| Abstractions, at least ones that survive over long
| periods of time, like the use of numbers, or like human
| spirituality, tend to contain within them a large
| collection of truths. Large collections of truths are
| what I mean by a greater reality, because they are not
| reality, they are abstracted ideas that are based on
| reality, but serve a greater purpose.
|
| Something being more real than the reality in front of us
| is not a new idea, idealism was introduced by Plato 2,400
| years ago suggesting that true reality lies in the world
| of perfect ideas, otherwise put, a reality more real than
| the physical world.
|
| Like I said though, all of this is my interpretations of
| readings and based on my own years of thought and
| experience.
| angoragoats wrote:
| I'd caution against comparing an actual, useful-in-
| everyday-life abstraction like numbers, with a vague
| wishy-washy idea like "human spirituality."
|
| I'm familiar with idealism and I definitely got the sense
| that you were coming from that perspective. As you might
| have guessed, I'm a naturalist, and probably also a
| materialist, because I think naturalism most closely
| comports with what we understand about how the universe
| works. While idealism is interesting to read about, I
| have yet to meet anyone that could provide evidence for
| the fact that it is actually correct and naturalism is
| wrong, so that's why I was asking. I'm personally not
| that interested in philosophical concepts that have no
| evidence or application in the real world.
|
| I'm also not aware of evidence for any "truths" that are
| themselves inherent to any abstractions we use as a
| species. For example, I can write an equation like so:
|
| x + 7 = 10
|
| I can solve for X and find that it is 3, and verify that
| my answer is correct by checking it against the original
| equation. I can do all of that using the abstractions
| we've developed and nothing more. But none of these
| truths are actually inherent to the abstraction of
| numbers; I could just have easily put seven apples in
| front of me, and added apples to another pile until I
| arrived at a total of 10 to find my answer.
|
| Could you give me an example of an abstraction which
| contains a truth that does not ultimately derive from the
| material, as in the example above?
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| The comparison was risky, I'll give you that. I think
| we've both already come to the conclusion that neither of
| us is going to prove much to the other, as you've stated
| our belief systems clash in multiple important ways. I
| would argue that my idealistic and (more importantly but
| not yet mentioned) my humanistic views of the world are
| not wholly incompatible with naturalism, given you are
| willing to give wide berth to aspects of natural forces
| like consciousness and what we do with it, which you may
| not be. On materialism, I don't think we'll get anywhere.
|
| And to your apple example, I never implied that numbers
| do not originate in the material world or are not derived
| from there, only that their true utility is realized when
| they have been abstracted over all the other types of
| fruit, and animals, and crops, etc. What started as piles
| of apples becomes something like one level of abstraction
| higher than a pile of apples, it becomes 10. But you have
| specifically said you have no interest in discussing
| things of this nature so I'll stop. But I'm leaving this
| paragraph because I took the time to write it.
|
| Your request for an abstraction that does not derive from
| the material is a bit of an impossible task isn't it? And
| like I said I never claimed that these abstractions did
| not originate in the material, just that over time they
| accumulated related truths to become greater than the
| material itself.
| angoragoats wrote:
| And to respond to your edit:
|
| The study you cited doesn't appear to have anything to
| say about the general appearance of consciousness, so I
| don't think it's really relevant to our discussion here.
|
| > We still do not understand the evolutionary emergence
| of consciousness and why it appears to be so rare, so I'm
| not going to act like I have the answers there.
|
| Yes, I agree 100%. But because of this, I don't think
| you're correct in claiming outright that consciousness
| transcends evolutionary necessity (this is a positive
| claim that requires evidence). It's OK to say we don't
| know!
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| That example I gave of the emergence of consciousness
| being a result of a growing brain was just an example and
| not necessarily what I believe, but it was on based this
| article from 2016:
|
| https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.00821
|
| Which really just breaks down consciousness potentially
| being a byproduct of having a drastically higher number
| of neurological connections than lesser developed animal
| brains.
|
| So combining the two, the growing brain, caused by an
| increase in size of the visual cortex to detect snake
| patterns, increased the number of neurological
| connections and as a result the brain gradually became
| consciously aware. That's just one theory that I used.
|
| And I 100% agree it's okay to say that we don't know, we
| don't. And I don't! But that won't stop me from thinking
| about it like, a lot.
|
| Edit: spelling
| angoragoats wrote:
| So do you agree with me that the statement "consciousness
| transcends evolutionary necessity" is not necessarily
| correct?
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| From that point yeah, "transcends evolutionary necessity"
| like you said, is a positive claim.
|
| More accurate to my intent would be "consciousness is
| untethered by evolutionary necessity" maybe?
| angoragoats wrote:
| This is just changing your phrasing to say the same
| thing. It's still a claim unsupported by evidence.
|
| My contention is that the absolute most we can say about
| the topic of the evolution of consciousness is "we don't
| yet know how or why consciousness evolved."
| coffeecantcode wrote:
| And we're not in disagreement there, my grounds for
| originally giving the example was only in the fact that
| consciousness is a prerequisite for spirituality to
| occur. I was really only saying that it is unique to
| humans and allows for abstract thought on the human
| condition.
|
| I respect your contention but I think we're going in
| circles over semantics now.
| pixelatedindex wrote:
| I don't get it... you can do whatever the hell you want now.
| What's the problem? Surely you like do _something_?
|
| And if you only want to do something for 4 weeks at a time then
| do that. Where's the despair coming from?
|
| Also, this person loves capitalism so much because it worked for
| them. But then the way they say like it's the greatest gift ever
| seems so out of touch.
| bluGill wrote:
| The problem is too many options and so he is stuck in analisys
| parallaisys. He could spend all is time trolling my posts to
| correct my spelling or start a company or ... so many options.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Give your money away and force yourself to have to do some real
| work again.
| hyperific wrote:
| New Game + Mode Unlocked!
| Gualdrapo wrote:
| If there's some rich person willing to give this idea a shot: I
| can help by taking one of your many millions from you.
| collingreen wrote:
| I hope that works out for you lol
| mouse_ wrote:
| Seconded. Give this guy all your money!
| acdw wrote:
| seriously, study after study shows that just giving people
| money is the most effective form of altruism. just give it
| away. go to your city's homeless shelter and give money away.
| write a check for your local school board. keep everything
| anonymous. give it all away.
| fargle wrote:
| exactly. if too much money was a problem, there's a trivial
| solution.
|
| so i'm guessing the problem isn't really that bad, eh?
| gigatexal wrote:
| Seems like the author could do well to spend some of their
| millions on a therapist?
| reilly3000 wrote:
| Work on affordable housing tech. There is a huge need for housing
| at all levels, and I really believe the lower end could be
| revolutionized by new materials and techniques, along with novel
| approaches to land use. You could make a real meaningful
| contribution and choose to make money or not along the way.
|
| Or whatever you want really. I recently contemplated what I would
| do if I won the lottery and arrived at that conclusion. Hopefully
| you arrive at yours.
| dvnguyen wrote:
| I am interested in affordable housing. Is inefficient tech the
| biggest contributor to housing cost?
| daedrdev wrote:
| Its definitely local regulations.
|
| In SF for example, even after a housing project is approved,
| it can be challenged at any point for any reason by the
| community or politicians. Even projects that meet all
| regulations can be rejected for any reason, usually that
| vibes are bad. I think over half of SF is some kind of
| historical district. Way too much is zoned for SFHs in the
| city limits. etc.
|
| It's little wonder why housing projects are so expensive in
| cities that have such strong NIMBYs. Like is it so
| unreasonable to ask for a bunch of 4 story single stair
| apartment buildings to be allowed to even be legal?
| shermantanktop wrote:
| Of course not! Take the top N problems ordered by "impacted
| due to inefficient tech" and the top N ordered by social
| benefit. N has to be pretty large before anything interesting
| starts showing up on both lists.
|
| The problem is that making tech more efficient is rarely
| anything more than a simple capital problem. So the real
| question is - where is there social benefit but no money?
| lbrito wrote:
| Peak, peak HN.
|
| "I am rich and yet find it to be unfulfilling and not the
| ultimate goal of human existence"
|
| and yet,
|
| "I am a big fan of capitalism" and repeat wholesale its most
| puerile, naive ideological propaganda mantras (see his about
| page) which are meant to justify _exactly_ that.
|
| Bud, seems like you have some more thinking to do if you think
| those two positions are perfectly congruent.
| ben_w wrote:
| Given that this forum is the news/blog discussion forum
| attached to a startup accelerator and VC fund, what I find
| pleasantly remarkable -- and I mean this sincerely -- is how
| open people here are to the idea that capitalism might possibly
| not be perfect.
|
| If I had not seen this forum for myself, and only read about it
| second-hand, I would have assumed that most here would indeed
| think they are "perfectly congruent" (which itself is a much
| starker position than simply "being a fan").
| riku_iki wrote:
| > how open people here are to the idea that capitalism might
| possibly not be perfect.
|
| is this something very unique? I think it is popular
| sentiment that capitalists corrupt society in many ways.
| defrost wrote:
| 'Capitalism' is a broad umbrella - the G20 countries are
| capitalist to varying degrees with a variety of emphasis and
| regulation.
|
| 'American Capitalism' isn't a peak form for delivering life
| expectancy, broad health outcomes, general happiness, and
| other measures on global indexes.
| missedthecue wrote:
| I am a fan of capitalism because, as a former poor person, I
| think it's the best system for poor people. Not because I think
| it will eliminate the existential woes of the affluent.
| trane_project wrote:
| The company got nearly 2B of dollars in investment, was
| acquired for half the price, and the founders somehow managed
| to make a profit. No wonder he's a fan. Which other system
| would allocate resources so effectively?
| VirusNewbie wrote:
| I'm far from rich, but my life is good and I love capitalism.
| So, I'm feeling pretty congruent.
| physicsgraph wrote:
| Find something that other people would see as infeasible or
| inaccessible and work on that. You are in a position of privilege
| that can be used to advance well-being and knowledge.
|
| Deciding whether to explore challenges solo versus as part of a
| team is a crucial differentiator.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| The author co-founded Loom [0], which was acquired by Atlassian a
| year ago ~$1B.
|
| If the insights are correct, each cofounder netted ~$56M [1]
|
| [0] https://vinay.sh
|
| [1] https://www.cbinsights.com/research/loom-valuation-
| investor-...
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| 60M, enough to start another startup and do it all again
| jgilias wrote:
| And potentially lose it all and actually regain the purpose,
| as you now need to grind again!
| trane_project wrote:
| Serious question, but how exactly does Atlassian hope to recoup
| that billion dollars?
|
| Loom is useful, but given that Atlassian's investors are
| expecting a large return, do they really hope a screen recorder
| to eventually add 2B+ dollars to their value? The AI features
| will eventually be commoditized, so that can't act as a moat.
| paulpauper wrote:
| it's not just the screen recorder: it's also the large
| userbase, the corporate connections, and the IP. if the stock
| goes up a few percent that alone covers the purchase
| mvdtnz wrote:
| It will integrate with their other products and add value
| through lock in. Same as all of their other acquisitions.
| Atlassian is all about building an ecosystem so valuable you
| don't even want to escape.
| paulpauper wrote:
| So after taxes, around $35 million? Still a lot
| setheron wrote:
| They had this as an internal product within Google. I liked it
| as part of their lab 120 division. They ended up killing it :(
| tiffanyh wrote:
| Who is "they" in your comment?
|
| Do you mean the Loom cofounders are ex-Googlers?
| imgabe wrote:
| See this is why people need to get married. If I have no idea
| what to do, my wife will surely think of something.
| vhiremath4 wrote:
| This gave me a good laugh. Thanks for that :)
| throwway120385 wrote:
| Children are pretty good at providing you with purpose too if
| you lose yours.
| codegeek wrote:
| SO true. I am having a midlife sort of crisis myself (lost as
| a founder a bit) but my kids keep me going with a purpose.
| When you have kids, you don't have the luxury of not doing
| anything.
| tayo42 wrote:
| pyramid scheme of having a purpose
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| That's humanity for you
| programmertote wrote:
| A unique (and IMO, correct) way to put it.
|
| I personally don't want to have a kid of my own blood. But
| I want to adopt one or two and maybe foster a few IF I
| become financially capable, which is probably a decade or
| so away.
|
| I do believe that having a kid of your own in this day and
| age (esp. when you are working day job and depending on
| that job for healthcare, housing, etc.) is unfair for the
| kid who will join you in your life. Sure you'll love
| him/her, but the reality is the kid will have to grind
| (again, assuming that you are not a multi-millionaire) when
| s/he reaches certain age. The best use of our resources,
| when we accumulate a good amount of wealth to sustain
| ourselves and have a bit more extra to spare, is to
| adopt/foster or do something philanthropic entirely (so
| many homeless, sick, hungry people that you can help).
| RonaldDump wrote:
| >don't want to have a kid of my own blood. But I want to
| adopt
|
| Can you elaborate? This is totally alien to me. It
| basically defeats the point. There must be some monstrous
| self-loathing involved?
| vermilingua wrote:
| It's not necessarily self-loathing to accept that you
| have genes you don't want to pass on, but still want to
| have a child.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| "The point" for me would not be spreading my genes. It
| would be to spread my parenting and resources.
|
| Possibly an easier idea for me because several of my many
| siblings already have multiple children that could be
| swapped in to my childhood photos without anyone
| noticing. My genes are pretty well established.
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| No, the act of raising a kid itself gives people purpose,
| so it's not a pyramid scheme by any means, but let's not
| let facts come in the way of a zinger of a one-liner I
| guess?
| tayo42 wrote:
| What do your kids do then when they start looking for
| their purpose in life? Have more kids? Lol Your coming in
| aggressive though
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| They will be independent humans who can choose the find
| it the way they want, including by having kids of their
| own if that works for them.
| jascha_eng wrote:
| NGL, still sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. I mean I
| like kids and I might have kids in the future. But I'd
| rather have purpose and joy and share that with future
| generations and keep it alive. I wanna be proud of
| humanity and what we are accomplishing and progressing
| into, not fix my own misery by bringing someone else into
| a world to distract me from existential dread.
| nice_byte wrote:
| it is, just like everything else, a manufactured purpose
| used to paper over the normal state of existential dread.
| just happens to be the one that most people default on.
| khazhoux wrote:
| It was a humor-joke.
| keybored wrote:
| It is perhaps a pyramid scheme if you look at it in a
| certain way. Which doesn't mean it is bad (unless you are
| anti-natalist). It's just funny that it can be
| conceptualized like that.
|
| You spend 20-40 years trying various things, living for
| yourself, finding nothing that sticks. Apparently being
| an idiot, but you're just inexperienced. There's some
| hole in your life. Then you have kids. Aha! It makes
| sense. Living for others! This is it! The irony being
| that now those people-you-live-for have to go through the
| same process, where 1/3 to half their life they spend in
| that apparently meaningless phase where they haven't
| found their purpose yet.
|
| This is totally void if you are the kind of person who
| cruised by and was happy without children but then the
| transition to having children made total sense as well.
| nice_byte wrote:
| you're getting downvoted, but know that you are correct.
| khazhoux wrote:
| It was only when I had kids that I understood what this
| means.
|
| My children are not "my purpose." I mean, that would be a
| lovely sentiment, but it's not the actual truth.
|
| But having kids (and being a hopefully-good father), means
| that no matter what else sucks at work, all the projects that
| didn't land, my boss's daily kicks to the crotch, and every
| multi-million job opportunity I stupidly turned down... I did
| right with those kids. If I had made any different choice in
| life --no matter how tiny-- those wonderful kids would not
| exist. And that satisfies my sense of Purpose.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| YMMV; this is not universally true.
| throwway120385 wrote:
| In my experience, nothing is universally true.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Judging by the number of single-parents in the US, it's
| very far from universally true.
| mattlondon wrote:
| There is "Purpose" and "purpose".
|
| One is some grandiose ill-defined thing. The other is
| housework.
|
| I am certainly in the housework side right now with two kids
| under 5.
|
| I am a dad, but I still derive quite a lot of identity from
| what I do for work. If anything, now that I am meeting more
| parents from nursery & school etc it feels it is almost
| _more_ important for me now to be able to implicitly assert
| status through my work /wealth/house-in-desireable-
| location/car/etc than it was before kids.
|
| I assumed those sort of feelings would dissolve with kids
| ("Purpose") but if anything the kids have magnified them.
| Potentially I am just a shallow prick, but I wonder if it is
| a "provider instinct" thing or perhaps just mini dopamine
| hits from feeling like I've got something desirable and
| meeting these other parents just reasserts that over and
| over.
| el_benhameen wrote:
| "Two kids under five" is a tough stage, though (I can't
| believe I've reached the point where I can say that
| retrospectively). Things come into focus a little more once
| your longest conversations with them aren't about why they
| actually do need to wear shoes to school. You get hit with
| those moments where you realize the long term impact you're
| having on their personalities and worldviews, and what an
| awesome responsibility that is.
|
| Not totally unlike--and I get that this is peak hn, but
| since we're talking work--building something and then
| seeing it run in the real world and having to live with
| your design decisions over the long term, etc etc etc.
| jdsleppy wrote:
| Thank you for this, I'm glad to hear you acknowledge that
| having kids isn't a constant philosophical bliss. I have
| two under 5 as well and don't relate to the dozens of
| comments gushing about their kids, wanting to spend more
| time with them. A few hours a day with my 4 year old is
| plenty (and most days, too much).
| blitzar wrote:
| You can start by taking out the trash, and if you are going to
| sit on your arse all day tomorrow then here is a list of stuff
| that needs doing around the house.
| aprdm wrote:
| Lol isn't that the truth, or my son !
| timfsu wrote:
| I appreciate the author's openness in sharing their experience -
| it's really worthwhile to share experiences where money isn't
| everything, and that it can be a poor generator of meaning.
|
| Speaking of meaning, I think it's a task for everyone to find
| their life's calling - something you're uniquely suited to do.
| Sometimes that pays the bills and sometimes it doesn't. I'm a bit
| surprised that "start another saas company" wasn't really on the
| list for Vinay, but there's probably a good reason for that. For
| me, I found that starting a family completely changed my life, as
| well as helping me appreciate more the family I already had - but
| I suppose that's not something that lasts forever either. Good
| luck to the author.
| attentionmech wrote:
| "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After
| enlightenment, chop wood, carry water"
|
| You do what you were enjoying before, just now you don't need to
| get paid in money for it. May be you will get paid in fame, noble
| prize, smiles of people whose life you impact etc. The money you
| have can't buy those directly but only when you put effort.
| iterance wrote:
| A bit funny to quote "chop wood, carry water." In this context
| "enlightenment" must be taken to mean "earning a shitload of
| money."
| attentionmech wrote:
| The author got "enburdened with a shitload of money"
| simondanerd wrote:
| I would hate to have that problem.
|
| Probably, maybe, actually it would drive me crazy and
| bored. But I could find ways to use it.
| attentionmech wrote:
| A problem is only a problem if you don't want it.
| relaxing wrote:
| The enlightenment is that money doesn't buy happiness.
| attentionmech wrote:
| It's commutative. Happiness also doesn't buy money.
| keybored wrote:
| "Before becoming rich, do the corporate grind. After becoming
| rich, do the corporate grind."
|
| I don't know man.
| Arete314159 wrote:
| Thank you, you just said what I was trying to say in 2% of
| the words.
| eightysixfour wrote:
| I honestly cannot imagine living with these thought patterns, it
| truly sounds like hell to me. You don't need to do hard things or
| overcome adversity every day to have purpose and find life
| fulfilling, it is an Infinite Game (read the book), not a Finite
| one.
|
| If you are reading the comments, IMO these giant grand gestures
| to find some spark of insight (climbing mountains, moving to
| Hawaii, etc.) aren't going to accomplish what you want. Ground
| yourself - go volunteer at a homeless shelter. Get a hobby that
| is social that you have no innate skill for, don't tell anyone
| about your money, make some friends while learning a low-pressure
| skill. Don't do anything until after the first day you didn't
| worry about what you were going to do. Recover from your burnout.
| papaver wrote:
| this.
| cocothem wrote:
| same experience will give different teachings to different
| people. for you going to a homeless shelter may help you
| appreciate life more, see that you can make a change in others
| by helping them etc. for someone wired differently - it may be
| a yucky experience with smelly people. so ymmv
| eightysixfour wrote:
| It is a yucky experience with smelly people. It isn't
| supposed to make you feel all warm and fuzzy.
| advael wrote:
| It's weird to me how often people come away from
| interacting with the poor with a reaction that would seem
| overly stilted and unfair if it was put in a cartoon
| ben_w wrote:
| > To push myself to be completely (and awkwardly) vulnerable to a
| blob of nameless strangers over the internet.
|
| This tone speaks to me, even if I have no desire to present
| myself in such a way. :)
|
| > The immediate 2 weeks after leaving an intense 10-year journey,
| I did what any healthy person does and met with over 70 investors
| and founders in robotics. I had been learning about robotics for
| quite some time and was positive I wanted to throw myself into
| giving computers arms and legs.
|
| FWIW, I see this a lot from normal-money people when they leave
| companies, even with shorter journeys. I've been that person, in
| more ways than one.
|
| I also don't know what I should do with myself, but have
| considered doing an extra physics degree. Unlike you, my
| financial situation is currently only on the border of FIRE (and
| I've always been a low spender) and therefore not secure enough
| to actually drop off the labour market and into the second degree
| on a whim.
|
| Not being American, the combination of you cringing about Musk
| and also finding the DOGE mission to be important is...
| surprising.
|
| Regardless, good luck figuring yourself out.
| fuzztester wrote:
| Was there an occult(ation)-like timeshift that I missed hearing
| about, which somehow made today April 1st?
|
| Or is this a test ChatGPT or other LLM post to see if _H_ GI
| exists, considering the comments that seem to be taking the OP
| seriously?
|
| H for Human. As in Human General Intelligence, as opposed to AGI.
|
| Or is the OP just an Elon-level narcissist and/or a huge startup
| koolaid alcoholic?
|
| Genuinely can't tell.
|
| Emperor mumble clothes.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor's_New_Clothes
| throw5959 wrote:
| It's a real guy and the story is real too. Good programmers
| aren't always great philosophers...
| fuzztester wrote:
| yes I knew that, because I took the trouble to read his about
| page and some part of the article before I commented. and i
| have some judgement and radar, you know.
|
| the article has nothing to do with philosophy. it is just
| about common sense, which as voltaire said, is not very
| common.
| throw5959 wrote:
| It has nothing to do with common sense.
| fuzztester wrote:
| See my last sentence above.
|
| "not very common"
| lisper wrote:
| The hardest part of getting what you want is figuring out what it
| is.
| gosub100 wrote:
| Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.
| haunter wrote:
| I wish!
| MrMcCall wrote:
| Denzel Washington's movie (he's the EP) The Equalizer says:
| The two most important days are the day you're born, and
| the day you find out why.
|
| We're here to be happy because of the happiness we've created
| for others.
|
| Most people have other far less important yet far more
| deleterious desires.
|
| As with all things human, the choice of path is ours alone, and
| we alone bear the fruits of our chosen journey while we tread
| it still.
| davidw wrote:
| "Buy more bicycles", duh.
|
| That, and find some ways to leave the world better than you found
| it.
| RonaldDump wrote:
| I find it a little unsatisfying when people write these things
| without telling me roughly what they're worth. "Rich" can vary
| wildly depending who you ask.
|
| edit: according to another's comment referencing a $56m payout,
| it now occurs to me that his confusing mention of a $60m figure
| may have been exactly that
| coldtea wrote:
| > _I find it a little unsatisfying when people write these
| things without telling me roughly what they 're worth. "Rich"
| can vary wildly depending who you ask._
|
| As long as they don't need to work for a living ever again, and
| they'd still have a house, health coverage, food on the table,
| vacations at will, new clothes, new cars every few years, money
| for their kids and their kid's college, and diversified enough
| for covering whatever market issue, that's rich enough -
| doesn't matter if it's $20 million or $1 billion for the
| purposes of "I'm bored with no purpose" the author is getting
| at.
| alistairSH wrote:
| Yeah, to most of the world, I'm rich. To a significant portion
| of other Americans, I'm rich. Yet, my lifestyle is wholly
| dependent on working for somebody else. No work, no house, no
| car, no medical care, no fun.
|
| "I'm so rich I'm lost" - worst humblebrag ever. Get a
| therapist. Or go for a long walk in the woods. Sheesh.
| mads wrote:
| Thats some top 1% shit
| chgs wrote:
| Yet his heroes make more per hour than this insanely rich
| person made in his entire career.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| From my limited experience, this is the standard Silicon Valley
| mindset.
| defrost wrote:
| Mike Cannon-Brookes is pursuing Suncable and other energy
| projects for the future, he's partnered for periods with non
| software billionaires from the hard resources world (eg: Andrew
| Forrest) ... there's no shortage of big projects that take big
| commitments .. even while ensuring you still "never need to work
| again" (ie. don't push _all_ the chips in).
| bitwize wrote:
| I think your problem is shared by a lot of rich people. I think a
| lot of them have no idea what to do with their lives.
|
| Wealth is like a clicker game. As you work you earn money, like
| clicking the cookie to earn more cookies. Once you have enough
| surplus cookies, you can put them to work earning more cookies,
| and then put THOSE to work earning even more cookies, and so on.
| Eventually you're well beyond the point where clicking the cookie
| makes any damn sense, but you're still in the game, seeing how
| fast you can accumulate cookies and seeing how far you can go,
| just for the sake of seeing it.
|
| Welcome to the life of the super rich. That's what investors do
| -- spend their time looking for ways to spend their money that
| will make them even more money, just to see how rich they can get
| and how fast they can get there.
|
| If that doesn't sound like a fulfilling life, think of something
| challenging and beneficial you can do. Start a biotech startup.
| Look for ways to clean up oil spills. Invent a new battery. Build
| a toy for your kids with Arduino. You're smart, and in a position
| to do things many smart people can only dream of. Take advantage
| of it.
| confidantlake wrote:
| This has to be parody.
| dmvdoug wrote:
| Push past this thought. Take the final step you know awaits
| your reaction. It's not parody. There are, honest-to-God,
| people like this aplenty in our world. Behold, we, as they, are
| borne back:
|
| _"Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future that
| year by year recedes before us. It eluded us then, but that 's
| no matter---tomorrow we will run faster, stretch out our arms
| farther ... And one fine morning--- So we beat on, boats
| against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."_
| dmvdoug wrote:
| I am really, really eager and excited to see the result when
| these DOGE-istas cook up whatever insanely "rational" schemes
| they imagine will make government not completely "dysfunctional"
| roll them out to the people they actually need to implement them
| (i.e., Congress).
|
| Surprise! Politicians only claim to care about budget and
| spending matters when the opposite party is in control.
|
| But I think most of us aren't so naive as not to realize DOGE is
| just and only another way to troll Democrats, not actually a
| serious way to tackle our fiscal and budgetary problems. The past
| n Comptrollers of the United States have been banging away on
| that policy drum for as long as I've been paying attention to
| politics (beginning ca. 2000). Nobody cares. They write nice
| reports though.
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| [ignoreme]
| dmvdoug wrote:
| Just curious: did you actually read the whole post?
|
| _When I got back home and regaled my friends with my
| mountain stories, one of my friends joked that I should work
| for Elon and Vivek at DOGE and help America get off its
| current crash to defaulting on its own debt. So I reached out
| to some people and got in. After 8 calls with people who all
| talked fast and sounded very autistic smart, I was added to a
| number of Signal groups and immediately put to work.
|
| Working for DOGE for 4 weeks, remembering the power of
| urgency
|
| Within 2 minutes of talking to the final interviewer for
| DOGE, he asked me if I wanted to join. I said "yes". Then he
| said "cool" and I was in multiple Signal groups. I was
| immediately acquainted with the software, HR, and legal teams
| and went from 0 to 100 taking meetings and getting shit done.
| This was the day before Thanksgiving.
|
| The next 4 weeks of my life consisted of 100s of calls
| recruiting the smartest people I've ever talked to, working
| on various projects I'm definitely not able to talk about,
| and learning how completely dysfunctional the government was.
| It was a blast.
|
| I learned about the power of urgency and having an undeniable
| mission. Not by reading it somewhere. By experiencing it. I
| came to realize how laughable my robotics stint had been in
| comparison. And I started to realize that, although the
| mission of DOGE is extremely important, it wasn't the most
| important thing I needed to focus on with urgency for myself.
| I needed to get back to ambiguity, focus on my insecurities,
| and be ok with that for a while. DOGE wasn't going to fix
| that._
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| Full disclosure: no I didn't. Sorry about that.
|
| Having read that portion, this guy seems like a poster-boy
| for the blind ignorance of the ultra wealthy.
| dmvdoug wrote:
| Yes, that's why that section stood out so strongly to me,
| in contrast with the general frost of responses in this
| thread before I posted, which was, "Oh, you poor dear."
| Peak HN in some ways I guess. :)
| suzzer99 wrote:
| But they're all super duper smart! Surely it can't take more
| than a month or two to solve govt waste with that kind of
| brainpower.
| VectorLock wrote:
| "We cut cancer research and will replace all government
| vehicles with Teslas. Ez!"
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| Agreed, but you have to look at this from "government and
| elites realized that we're screwed, and need to just do
| whatever possible to see what sticks" perspective. This time
| banging the drums actually might matter because a competitor
| (China) has caught up in most of industries and playing the
| "win at all costs" mode. I have no idea how US is going dig
| itself out of this situation as there's no cultural,
| economical, nor political alignment.
|
| There is a genuine belief in some people that if you just put a
| few thousand smart people into work, they'll have a solution.
| But what is lacking, I think, is boots on the ground employees
| for numerous amount of industries. They're thinking of a
| financially engineered solution, but there's no appetite to pay
| or maintain an industrial workforce.
| dmvdoug wrote:
| There is also no financially engineered solution possible
| when one of the groups has final say on whether anything
| changes and if it does, what exactly--at least when that
| group gains from the status quo. Cut _x_ number of federal
| programs? You've now also directly reduced the amount of
| money flowing into _y_ number of Congresspeople, and the
| number of districts in which that reduction doesn't also make
| reelection more (marginally) troublesome is asymptomatic to
| 0.
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| It's hope and prayers kinda season, maybe bunch of people
| will figure out something. I have no clue what they can do,
| but I'm not a smart person with 6496493 IQ.
| kayewiggin wrote:
| > a competitor (China) has caught up in most of industries
|
| stop spreading misinformation. go look at largest companies
| by market cap in the world https://companiesmarketcap.com/
| and you'll see US domination while China has a few handful of
| companies, mostly banks.
|
| > government and elites realized that we're screwed
|
| That's more like China. That's why 15k rich chinese are
| fleeing the country in 2024
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltonezrati/2024/07/03/high-
| ne..., the most of any country in the world. US isn't the one
| where the stock market and real estate has collapsed.
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| All those things you said are objectively true. But it's
| literally US government who is up in the arms right now
| screaming left and right how "we have to win against
| China". Not taking China as a serious competitor is just
| weird nowadays. Take most of top industries, and you can
| find its equivalent in China serving the same amount of
| people.
| Niksko wrote:
| My guess at what it will look like:
|
| * Ruthless budget cutting. Import social programs that (purely
| by coincidence) don't alight with the far right's ideology will
| be cut because e.g. only 1% of the population uses them,
| ignoring that 1% of the population is still 3 million odd
| people.
|
| * Lots of brain drain. There are good people in government. I
| suspect the good ones won't much enjoy being told that they're
| morons who are wasting everyone's money. The actual morons
| won't care much, and the people doling out the firings won't be
| around long enough to figure who is who.
|
| * Some low hanging fruit that requires a dictatorship and wide-
| ranging mandate to achieve. There's definitely inefficiency in
| government that can be solved by pointing everyone in the same
| direction and telling them their jobs are on the line. But not
| that much. I'm sure much fanfare will be made of what is solved
| though.
|
| * Lots of corruption, cronyism and people under-qualified for
| their roles but over-estimating their abilities. This is a
| playbook we've seen from Trump and from Elon "I looked at
| Twitter's code for 5 seconds and instantly made 100x
| improvements' Musk. Thankfully, government projects span years
| or decades, so the effects of these terrible contracts and
| inexperienced leaders will be felt for years to come.
| cj wrote:
| I don't think his problem is money.
|
| I think his problem is his identity (founder of Loom) suddenly
| disappeared.
|
| Now he needs to develop a new identity.
|
| This is especially difficult for single founders without kids (in
| the sense that people with spouse/kids already derive much of
| their identity from those 2 things).
|
| Selling a company isn't all that different from going through a
| divorce (in the sense that your identity needs to be completely
| rebuilt from scratch)
| bumby wrote:
| William Storr writes about this. His stance is humans are hard
| wired for status within their social group. The problem is when
| all your status eggs in one basket and it disappears, it's not
| good for your mental health. He advocates for having your
| identity spread across many different pursuits and disparate
| social groups, although he admits he's not very good at doing
| that himself.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Hard to take such general advice seriously from someone who
| apparently doesn't practice it. In fact, it seems mistaken to
| do so.
| bdangubic wrote:
| _do as I say not as I do_ is core of all parenting... :)
| fsckboy wrote:
| if the first person to notice a correlation between
| alcoholism and cirrhosis was an alcoholic, you'd dismiss
| what he said out of hand and keep drinking?
| cal85 wrote:
| In what book? Searched but can't find anything that sounds
| like this.
| WorkerBee28474 wrote:
| My guess is The Status Game by Will Storr.
| bumby wrote:
| That's correct, thanks for clarifying.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > humans hard wired for status within their social group.
|
| Not always "status". Humans benefit from cooperative
| behaviour but may have many reasons for joining and adhering
| or leaving.
|
| Having varied interests means different networks. The
| important point is to see meaning and value. This is where
| ostracism and rejection can be most painful.
| bumby wrote:
| To put a finer point on it, Storr's thesis is there are
| three main domains that humans try to achieve status:
| dominance, competence, and virtue. Same end goal, but
| different means to get esteem. Put differently, people
| ultimately need to feel valued by their tribe.
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| Thanks for clarifying. There must be more subtlety in the
| "end goal" of membership.
|
| > people ultimately need to feel valued by their tribe
|
| To the extent that people want to remain in a group
| ("tribe"), I agree.
|
| But this holds only when people feel that they _gain
| value from_ the group (or tribe). For some members, the
| sense of _gain_ may be conspicuous prestige, but for
| other members it may be a humble gain or an unnoticed
| (inconspicuous) gain.
|
| The quieter members (in O.P.'s narcissistic terminology,
| the "NPCs" in his company) may have insights that
| completely escape the O.P. and other prestige-seekers.
| purplethinking wrote:
| I took 1.5 years off to work on an open source project (also
| because I was struggling with health issues), and the hardest
| thing was describing what you're doing to other people. I
| thought I was "above" social status, that it wouldn't affect
| me, but it did. I was essentially unemployed, that's how it
| felt at least. It's so much easier just saying "I do X for a
| living, I work at company Y". It means some company thinks
| you're good enough to pay good money for.
| mywittyname wrote:
| Keep it simple, then pivot. Most people don't care that
| much about what you do unless they're in your same industry
| (in which case, they'd empathize).
|
| > What do you do?
|
| Write software.
|
| > Oh yeah, for who?
|
| $GitProjectName
|
| > What do they do?
|
| It's a project that <short explanation>.
|
| But enough about me, <pivot to different topic | shift
| focus to the other person>
| tobyjsullivan wrote:
| Thoughtful approach in theory but, in practice, I've
| found people can be very intentional about trying to
| measure your value to the tribe (i.e., it's not only
| something we measure for ourselves). If the initial
| answers don't provide enough data, people will very often
| dig in.
|
| > Oh yeah, for who?
|
| $GitProjectName
|
| > Oh, I'm not familiar. How big is that company?
|
| It's an independent project, I'm just getting it off the
| ground.
|
| > Do you have any customers?
|
| ... and so on.
|
| Yes, it's easiest to change the subject but that also
| becomes an obvious signal. Repeating this dance a few
| times is enough to dampen one's sense of self worth.
|
| I don't necessarily think this value-measuring is
| conscious or necessarily reflective of the person's
| character. It felt more like it's simply the habitual
| conversational pattern for a lot of people - we've been
| trained to quickly assess if someone is "like us" (based
| on very shallow criteria and heuristics).
| purplethinking wrote:
| There's also a difference between saying you work at
| $FAMOUSCOMPANY and knowing it's true, it gives you a kind
| of confidence that you don't have if you say "I'm the CEO
| of my own startup" or something like that. I think
| actually "I retired early, working on some of my own
| projects" might work, but all sorts of problems creep up
| when money is involved like that, especially with family.
| iknownthing wrote:
| Is this not the same problem everyone faces when they retire?
| driverdan wrote:
| No, only people who define their lives by their job. Most
| people have a life outside of work.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| The vast majority of men develop depression at retirement.
| So you can say this with scorn if it pleases you, but the
| group you're talking about is massive and doesn't deserve
| this derision.
| johngossman wrote:
| 1 in 3 according to the best data available.
|
| And when you consider that most people retire late in
| life when they are likely to face health issues, start
| losing family and friends, and that most people don't
| retire rich...
| jandrese wrote:
| I think it is more that people who were married to their
| job find themselves suddenly divorced.
|
| Without other activities to give them a reason to get up
| in the morning it is easy to fall into depression. There
| was even a movie that explores this situation: _About
| Schmidt_.
| jerojero wrote:
| There could be a lot of factors involved in this.
|
| Retirement might be, in a way, a clear point in life when
| you get to actually think about your own mortality and
| life coming to an end in the next few decades. That alone
| could have a major impact in people developing depression
| at retirement.
|
| What the poster says might still be true, people are
| being defined by their work and when that's over there's
| a huge gap they don't know how to fill. This might very
| well be a criticism on the role of work in society.
|
| Ultimately though, you're right, there's no need to
| insult people when thinking critically about this issue.
| mcmcmc wrote:
| This is straight up false, you are wildly
| overexaggerating with zero evidence to back it up.
|
| Incidence of depression in retirement age populations are
| around 6 - 8%, and the correlation between retirement and
| depression is _more_ pronounced in women.
|
| There's no need to make false claims about a real
| disorder just so you can feel persecuted as a man
|
| https://www.ajgponline.org/article/S1064-7481(23)00424-4/
| abs...
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| My inaccuracy not withstanding, you supply the data to
| prove my point, that it is common for men to experience
| depression in retirement. And my suggestion that they
| should be considered seems just as true.
|
| Your suggestion about my motives makes no sense, I made
| no comparison to women. It sounds like that may have
| something to do with you, not me.
|
| Perhaps ask yourself: why does a suggestion that these
| men deserve some sympathy or at least consideration
| provoke you into harshly criticizing me?
| friendlyasparag wrote:
| To be fair you are the first person in this thread to
| bring up gender, as if women don't also feel depression
| in retirement, and indeed at higher rates. Why would you
| only mention men?
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Ya, that was an error. I was thinking of myself, perhaps.
| bazmattaz wrote:
| If there is evidence my guess is that it's likely due to
| the previous generation's attitude towards work. My guess
| is that the previous generation (like my parents and
| their parents before them) lived to work, it was their
| whole identity, thus when they retired they had no idea
| what to do with themselves (like the Loom founder) and
| depression was common.
|
| There has been a shift over the last decade or two likely
| in millennials who just work to live. They look forward
| to not working and living a life full of hobbies and
| social activities.
| tobyhinloopen wrote:
| We're supposed to have a life outside work? Oh shit
| paulpauper wrote:
| It says on wiki:
|
| _In 2022, according to Forbes, the firm was valued at $1.5
| billion, having secured $200 million in funding from venture
| funds such as Sequoia Capital, Andreessen Horowitz, ICONIQ,
| Coatue, and Kleiner Perkins.[1][2] It is remote, but is
| headquartered in San Francisco, California, with an office in
| New York._
|
| Why would such a seemingly simple product need so much money?
| It seems like the business was already done. Web video
| recording or facetime has been around a long time, but somehow
| this company carved a niche in a crowded market.
| voidhorse wrote:
| They slapped the word AI on it and took advantage of
| temporary market conditions (wfh due to covid and AI hype),
| nothing more, nothing less. Unless I'm missing something,
| there is nothing special about this product and probably no
| one will remember it in ~15 years time.
|
| Meanwhile OP seems to think he should have expected the same
| sense of fulfillment one might get from an actually
| meaningful contribution to human society, for some reason.
| sfblah wrote:
| Very very well said. OP's vapid writing kind of tells the
| tale.
| redlock wrote:
| What does loom have anything to do with AI? It is a nifty
| way to share video recordings easily and quickly. In that
| they did a great job
| msanlop wrote:
| >One video is worth a thousand words
|
| >Easily record and share AI-powered video messages with
| your teammates and customers to supercharge productivity
|
| This is the first thing you see when visiting the
| website. Ctrl+F finds "AI" 10 times in the page. Like the
| other commenter said, it probably has nothing to do with
| AI, but this is what sells at the moment
| nooneevencares wrote:
| Probably needs to develop a soul first.
|
| NPCs don't actually exist outside of video games, those are
| real human beings.
|
| Not sure what to do with all that wealth? Try asking one of
| those NPCs... spend a day with each one of them, learn what
| being human actually is
| voidhorse wrote:
| Yep. I don't understand why the technological community
| accepts essentially sociopathic tendencies as long as your
| idea (regardless of what that idea is) is rewarded by the
| capital system. It's pathetic.
| thfuran wrote:
| It's not pathetic, it's destructive and evil.
| nateburke wrote:
| Yes. Thinking of others as NPCs has its own way of turning
| ones self into an NPC.
|
| cf. Mean Girls
| mcmcmc wrote:
| Calling people NPCs is one of my biggest pet peeves and a
| dead giveaway that someone is a soulless narcissist. It is
| dehumanizing in the extreme, the same way Nazis characterized
| Jews as rats in propaganda. When people say eat the rich...
| this is who they mean
| ddq wrote:
| >a dead giveaway that someone is a soulless narcissist
|
| You're engaging in the exact same behavior, are you not?
| NPC and soulless are the same fundamental concept, that
| there is a certain threshold of humanity people can fall
| below to be considered lesser. They're soulless, they're
| NPCs, they're untermenschen... whatever the word for it,
| there are "dead giveaways" that a person can lack that
| hidden quality that separates man from animal. I'm sure it
| wasn't your intent, but from a certain reading, it seems
| like what you're saying isn't really all that far off from
| "calls people NPCs = is the real NPC".
|
| I often see people decry specific terminology associated
| with dehumanizing beliefs without refuting the actual
| premise behind them.
| mcmcmc wrote:
| Disagree. NPC carries a connotation that you are not even
| real. You do not have free will. You are there purely to
| serve their whims. You are an ephemeral nothing that does
| not exist when they look away. It is exactly what Andrew
| Tate preaches with his whole "matrix" schtick. It is the
| mindset billionaires use to excuse their bottomless
| greed.
|
| Soulless was just a heavy handing way of saying it
| demonstrates a disturbing lack of empathy. Whether or not
| souls exist is debatable in the first place, so no I
| wouldn't equate it with calling someone subhuman.
| karmakurtisaani wrote:
| Well.. I've pretty much accepted that I'm more or less an
| NPC. So no harm done from my side.
| khazhoux wrote:
| You are misinterpreting. He's talking about how at big
| companies, you always have people who don't seem to bring any
| actual value. They're in every meeting, but don't say
| anything, don't set any direction, don't produce any
| documents or any code, don't exhibit any sense of urgency or
| even involvement, and don't contribute in any noticeable way.
| "NPCs." They are completely passive as far as you can tell --
| or worse, they actively slow others down when they happen to
| be on some critical approval path.
|
| I'm sure they are lovely people outside work, and loving
| parents and good citizens. But when the rest of us are
| busting our butts to get work done, they're unfortunately
| useless.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Negatively Producing Characters? Or maybe Null Producing
| Characters.
| nunez wrote:
| Non playable characters
|
| He's calling them filler, basically
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| They're still people. Just because the company doesn't
| motivate them or they have a bad manager or are on a bad
| team or a million other reasons they don't feel empowered
| to "participate" (specious since clearly they're employed)
| doesn't mean you can act like they're soulless bots ffs.
|
| This whole mindset has got to go. You and OP going around
| like this, it's gross for the world and it's a bad look on
| you.
| lazide wrote:
| sounds like you're just shaming OP for trying to actually
| get something done by recognizing practical realities.
|
| If everyone matters the same, no one matters.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| What matters is relative to one's perspective. Nothing
| objectively matters.
|
| Nobody's saying everyone is of equal value, they're
| saying that reducing your perception of somebody into a
| 2-dimensional caricature because you don't perceive value
| in them is the type of disgusting mental habit of
| somebody who either has no real friends or soon will have
| none.
| benwad wrote:
| The guy who started a video conferencing app called Loom (2
| years after Zoom came out) then miraculously sold it for
| almost a billion dollars has no business calling anyone an
| "NPC".
| taway1874 wrote:
| 100% this! Calling one's colleague an NPC is not only
| demeaning but also shows a lack of awareness and empathy.
| Does the author even understand that by his logic, he is a
| NPC in his colleague's world?
| visarga wrote:
| > Probably needs to develop a soul first.
|
| More generally, if you cultivate yourself you will get more
| pleasure from your activities. If you take time to learn an
| instrument, or listen to classical, or gardening (you can
| grow exotic plants for example), learn a new language, or
| anything else. The more you put into refining your
| appreciation and knowledge, the more value you can get back
| from your activities. It's a self cultivation problem.
| mywittyname wrote:
| The dude also dumped his long time girlfriend right after
| coming into a large chunk of money (and thinks she cares
| enough to read his blog!), and truly thinks he was going to
| "save our government". Also, the mountain climbing (IYKYK).
|
| He sounds pretty full of himself and seems to struggle making
| personal connections with people. Being the founder of a
| startup gave people a reason to care about him, and now that
| he's lost that along everyone around him. He beat the game
| and now the characters in the story have nothing left to say
| to him.
|
| The guy should put down the physics book and go learn to be a
| person that others enjoy being around. Go get a job waiting
| tables and hang out with coworkers after work, learn to surf,
| etc.
| Krei-se wrote:
| True, i would still argue that your identity might be fogged by
| these things and come out clearer after lifting roles you may
| stumbled into more than you chose them.
|
| So sure hope for him and others they survive their 7 years of
| catharsis!
| nico wrote:
| > I think his problem is his identity (founder of Loom)
| suddenly disappeared.
|
| This is spot on. And I think it's probably the biggest thing
| he's going through
|
| However, the money is definitely a big factor as well. Not
| because of the amount of money, but because of the suddenness
| that it happened with
|
| In a very short amount of time, he found himself not needing
| (and realizing also not wanting), to maintain his identity at
| the time
|
| The money and the suddenness also put him in a situation that
| is pretty hard to relate to for the vast majority of people
|
| So not only he lost his identity, he also found himself alone
| (and made it even worse, by pushing people away or ending some
| relationships)
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| He doesn't think his problem is money either, because that
| would have a trivial and obvious solution that doesn't seem to
| be under consideration.
| Fomite wrote:
| I don't think his problem is money.
|
| I think his problem is he might not be a very good person.
| simonswords82 wrote:
| If true, he probably knows this already and now just needs to
| work out how to fix it.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| Reminds me of this Jim Carrey speech
|
| https://youtu.be/YHIZ0Rb7lv0?si=TG_SIi-XUuP1iHYf
| EGreg wrote:
| You know what I got from this story?
|
| DOGE already processed a lot of applications and set up the
| signal chats etc.
|
| This guy applied and right away heard back, because he has
| millions of dollars, good reputation for having a large exit, and
| he "reached out to some people and got in".
|
| I simply applied in the way they asked -- DMming them on Twitter
| -- the very next day, submitting a link to my resume, background
| and cover letter that fully spells out how exactly I could help
| them in their mission. And they didn't even bother to visit the
| link, let alone respond. (I know because I put in logging.)
|
| Until now, I didn't know that DOGE was even hiring people yet.
| Now thanks to his story, I believe they've already hired the main
| people back in November.
|
| I am going to take a different approach in life. Thanks guy :)
|
| Capital matters. Connections matter. Timing matters. Substance
| doesn't matter as much, sadly. Don't simply follow instructions.
| Get unfair advantages.
|
| For what it's worth, here was my DOGE application link:
| https://magarshak.com/resume-cover-letter.php
| claytongulick wrote:
| I ran into the same thing with DOGE.
|
| I console myself by thinking about how many hundreds of
| thousands of resume links they must have received.
|
| I struggle with hiring when I have a few tens of resumes to
| sort through.
|
| I can't imagine how they'll filter the signal from the noise
| and trolls with X DMs being the submission process.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| I hear you. I actually use an AI tool that i found in HN
| that's quite helpful.
|
| Now i don't dread getting 400 resumes because i know which 8
| candidates know their stuff. This enabled whiteboarding for
| non-tech jobs.
|
| https://www.greetai.co/
|
| (Granted, i'm not hiring for Tech eng, but for the screening
| i need to do, its great)
|
| Full disclosure - I don't work or have any stake. Just
| spreading good karma for software i actually use, and the
| founder's great with feedback
| chgs wrote:
| Amazes me how naive people are about this whole billionaire
| worship stuff.
| EGreg wrote:
| I am definitely naive about the good faith of a lot of market
| participants.
|
| But my motivations for applying have never been about
| "worshipping billionaires". If you have read anything I've
| ever written, I criticize concentrations of power, especially
| in the hands of billionaires, including Elon.
|
| I am not even a fan of MAGA Republicans. However, I do think
| it would be great to make government more efficient. And my
| whole pitch was: we need to start using public blockchains
| for transparency, extending the legacy of Obama's data.gov
| which helped with transparency. By gradually moving budgets
| and payouts to blockchains and smart contracts, it would be
| much harder to sustain off-the-books excess and ineffiencies.
|
| In fact, anyone who is for blockchain is for
| decentralization, not so much in favor of billionaire owners
| of centralized platforms. But anyway I digress, I don't think
| "blockchain" will find many fans on HN as it is...
| jamieplex wrote:
| But, will blockchain fix the laziness and nepotism within
| the government? (along with myriads of other "fails")
| robocat wrote:
| > Capital matters. Connections matter. Timing matters.
| Substance doesn't matter as much, sadly
|
| Your conclusions are based on your own stereotypes - I'm not
| surprised that you feel your application experience validates
| your own stereotype.
|
| You seem to not know anything about their selection criteria,
| so you can't jump to conclusions on their criteria based on
| your sample of one.
|
| I would guess: (1) the DOGE guys want business people, and (2)
| the guy knows how to talk the right language and how to sell
| himself.
|
| I am of course presuming you are not running your own business
| and that you perhaps don't have the same level of skill in
| marketing yourself.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Earning gray hairs with blood, sweat, and tears is the natural
| way of marking satisfaction milestones. Most of us will not get a
| chance at steering just 1M in wealth without major struggles and
| juggles. But having 60M without any major struggle? Well now you
| have to struggle with an existential crisis. Here's the solution:
| Watch your children grow to adults, sail some seas, and fix
| anything that bothers you. Life always finds a way of keeping you
| active. Now it doesn't actually matter what you're doing, as long
| as you are happy to be doing it.
| block_dagger wrote:
| I recommend focusing on (1) health and fitness (2) community /
| volunteering (3) charitable foundation (4) art - create it or
| support it.
| ljhsiung wrote:
| Recent research from Killingsworth and Kahenman in 2023 [1]
| highlights that those most already happy have their happiness
| accelerated by money, while those most unhappy have their
| happiness plateau.
|
| This makes some intuitive sense to me. Money provides freedom,
| but freedom is not happiness. It's freedom to explore, which is
| quite scary in and of itself. But if your mindset is proper, your
| creativity and appetite for exploration will be unbounded.
|
| [1]: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2208661120
| ImPostingOnHN wrote:
| This also makes intuitive sense to me, and the old theory some
| decades back that extrinsic happiness tops out at $150k or so
| sounded silly to me.
|
| There are so many reasons for someone to be miserable, and
| money is just one of them, and many can't be easily ridden by
| money.
| claytongulick wrote:
| I have a tentative plan for if I ever reach that level of
| success.
|
| Basically, take all the money, set it to the side in parked long-
| term investments, pay myself a basic low-middle class paycheck,
| and live on it.
|
| Then start again. Swing the bat. Rinse, repeat until I'm ready to
| just relax and be happy staring at the clouds all day.
|
| I know myself well enough that I understand that a huge part of
| my character is the struggle. Without it, I'd feel ungrounded -
| purposeless.
|
| If I'm too comfortable, I'll just get lazy and may end up in a
| downward spiral.
|
| If I have just enough to pay my bills, I'll keep working hard,
| but it'll be on things that interest me instead of working on
| someone else's idea.
| bluGill wrote:
| I'd start again buy volenteer work. Fixing things at the local
| youth camp could fill several lifetimes. or the food shelf
| needs help. Or admin work for united way if I decide a desk job
| is for me.
| claytongulick wrote:
| I've thought about going back to school to get my RN and
| doing volunteer work at public clinics.
|
| I started my career in patient care, but ended up switching
| to technology in the late 90s.
|
| I'd love to do something like that as a retirement job.
| coldcode wrote:
| Read recently in Smithsonian about a founder in a similar
| situation (although I think he was still involved) who started an
| organization to find missing soldiers and return their bodies to
| relatives. Spent a lot of time and money finding MIAs lost in the
| Eastern theatre of war from WWII. (Dr. Patrick Scannon, Project
| Recover).
| mtmorrow wrote:
| I could use 50k ;)
| davesque wrote:
| I feel like there's a weird psychology to these kinds of boo hoo
| posts that I see from rich people lamenting their good fortune.
| What's the actual sub-conscious impulse to flaunt your wealth in
| such a way that devalues it to the 99% of all humanity who
| weren't so lucky? I can only possibly conclude that the
| individual who does this is looking for ever more subtle and
| excusable ways of bragging while appearing to do the opposite.
| Really sad. If life is so hard when you don't have to work,
| please, oh virtuous one, do the selfish thing and offload the
| burden onto some other poor soul like myself. I'm sure I can find
| a way to bear it.
| Ancalagon wrote:
| A couple other commenters mentioned seeking enlightenment. I
| cannot claim to have anywhere near OP's amount of wealth, but
| something that weightlifting and yoga (and more particularly
| power lifting) have taught me is mindfulness, and contentment.
| That might seem strange but coming to terms with the limits of
| one's own strength and then learning the limits of their body and
| pushing both of them requires lots of thoughtfulness and patience
| - especially if you want to do it for the long term (I've been
| doing it for ~10 years). In my mind there is no cheating either
| (steroids are not an option).
|
| Whether it's weightlifting, yoga, meditation, or chopping wood, I
| hope you can find your path to contentment OP!
| daedrdev wrote:
| This reminds me of the saying "one must imagine sisyphus happy".
|
| Humans can be very happy working towards something. Not having a
| goal is an existential problem because we have no true purpose.
| 23B1 wrote:
| The cringiest humblebrag of a blog post in some time.
|
| The only proper emotion in success is _gratitude_ to the many
| people who helped you along the way.
|
| Have some bloody decorum.
| rvz wrote:
| Well said.
| superasn wrote:
| While I can't totally relate to this scenario I feel something
| like this playing video games. I'm happiest when I'm working
| towards the goal and once you defeat the big boss / get the best
| gems, etc you're just standing there wondering what now.
|
| I think the most exhilarating part is before you are about to
| beat the big boss (which in this case would be the offer for
| acquisition i suppose).
| VogonPoetry wrote:
| Three suggestions
|
| - pick anything you don't know the answer to, try to find the
| answer (can also be personal, like how you behave in certain
| ways)
|
| - pick something physical you do not have, instead of buying it,
| make it yourself
|
| - pick some skill you don't have or would like to have, get
| proficient in it
| johngossman wrote:
| Excellent advice. I'd add, read a bunch of books. Not physics:
| history and biography. Learn about how other people live rather
| thsn how electrons behave. Nothing wrong with physics but
| unlikely to provide life guidance
| dateSISC wrote:
| stopped reading at "NPC coworkers"
| chaps wrote:
| Same. Maybe the guy should start thinking of people as people
| before contemplating what to do about himself.
| madrox wrote:
| I don't think you have to have Fuck You Money to get to this
| point. Most people eventually become disillusioned with work
| enough that they reevaluate what matters to them. Getting a very
| profitable exit is just one way to trigger that experience.
|
| In my experience, a lot of people who get into this state start
| self-sabotaging hard as a way of rejecting what feels,
| ironically, like losing control. Sudden freedom can feel foreign
| and lot like your world got forcibly taken away from you. I'm not
| surprised the author is turning down opportunities and breaking
| off with his girlfriend. It's a way of taking back control.
|
| When this happened to me, I pivoted hard from getting
| satisfaction out of what I built to getting satisfaction out of
| developing people. Now I take great pride out of the careers I've
| nurtured...a lot more than what I've built, in most ways. I've
| heard others express similar ideas in different ways, like "I now
| enjoy making other people rich."
|
| No matter what, I encourage the author to use this time to build
| connections instead of destroying them (real connections...not
| work or SF acquaintances). Something I did not read in this essay
| is how he grew closer to anyone (in fact, I read the opposite).
| No path out of this valley involves traveling alone.
| lisper wrote:
| In a way having money makes it harder because it makes it
| harder to blame your unhappiness on your circumstances.
| david-gpu wrote:
| Yeah. When you have to work in order to live, it is easy to
| make the mistake of thinking that you would be happy if only
| you had money to quit your job and time do the things you
| want to do.
|
| Once you get there, you have to face reality: while being
| poor leads to unhappiness, being financially independent does
| not lead to happiness either. Don't believe me? Look at
| billionaires out there; do all of them look like happy and
| well-adjusted people to you? Not naming names.
|
| And that's why wealthy celebrities repeat again and again
| that _" Money doesn't buy happiness"_. It's because they know
| from experience that it really doesn't help all that much.
| scotty79 wrote:
| > Money doesn't buy happiness
|
| Yeah, but it let's you suffer in relative comfort which is
| the most that anyone can realisically strive for.
| david-gpu wrote:
| _> suffer in relaive comfort which is the most that
| anyone can realisically strive for_
|
| If you have never met a person who is content with their
| life you may benefit from expanding your social circle.
| There are sincerely happy people out there.
| scotty79 wrote:
| No, thanks. There's really nothing to learn from people
| with this particular rare flavor of brain chemistry.
| tough wrote:
| lmfao
| jamieplex wrote:
| Well, that's definitely an interesting take...
| scotty79 wrote:
| Yeah, if only people who chase happiness their entire
| lives, just because they saw it few times in others and
| suffer immensely in the process had this insight ...
| zusammen wrote:
| Money doesn't buy happiness but most people are subjected
| to artificial misery by this society and money does make
| that go away... at least, a fair share of it, probably 80
| percent.
|
| That said, a lot of people who get rich, because status is
| their real motivation, are shocked by how horrible society
| still is. At first they get hooked on the drug of high
| social status, but then they learn to see through the
| flattery and realize that nothing has truly changed, and
| they're just as miserable as before. It tends to take about
| two years, in my observation, for the "new life energy" to
| wear off. Money teaches you that there isn't some "better"
| society to aspire to. The people "up there" aren't the
| supervillains Redditers imagine billionaires to be, but
| they're not better either.
|
| My daughter is autistic and when she started to learn how
| to read social cues she realized that her so-called friends
| didn't actually like her, which I suspected myself but
| never had the chutzpah to say, and it made her angry.
| Getting rich has a similar "learn what people are really
| about" curse.
| fsckboy wrote:
| society subjects people to artificial misery? society is
| all we have, it's the most authentic misery you'll ever
| experience.
| littlecosmic wrote:
| Maybe artificial in the way that we hypothetically could
| do things better if there wasn't so much inertia to the
| status quo.
| lazide wrote:
| Ah, idealism. Truly the root of much of misery of the
| world.
| david-gpu wrote:
| _> Money doesn't buy happiness but most people are
| subjected to artificial misery by this society and money
| does make that go away... at least, a fair share of it,
| probably 80 percent._
|
| I've been the young immigrant who arrived to a foreign
| country with the clothes on his back and whatever fits in
| a suitcase; occasionally splurging by buying used clothes
| at a thrift shop and buying a slice of cake at the
| supermarket once a month. If anything, I was probably
| happier then: healthy and hopeful for a better future.
| Now I'm in significantly worse health and rather jaded.
|
| Thank you for sharing your own experience.
| jquery wrote:
| Being young and healthy goes a long way. I was happier
| when I was a poor ahh college student but that doesn't
| mean losing all my money and possessions would be good
| for my mental health.
| jquery wrote:
| >supervillains Redditers imagine billionaires to be
|
| Sure, they are just people like you and me. Doesn't mean
| their mere existence isn't evidence of a major flaw in
| our implementation of capitalism. Our society is becoming
| far too stratified. Healthcare should be a right at this
| point in our society's development, it's a stain on our
| country that we still carry on with a system that works
| for nobody except health insurance CEOs.
| WalterBright wrote:
| No society has made the poor better off by getting rid of
| the wealthy people.
| defrost wrote:
| Many have made the poor worse off by pandering to the
| rich and entitled.
|
| The rich don't have to be eaten, just constrained from
| exercising their worst excesses.
| atq2119 wrote:
| Societies _have_ made the poor better off by preventing
| people from becoming too wealthy, though. Specifically, I
| 'm thinking of the very high high-end tax rates that were
| common 60 years ago.
| victorbjorklund wrote:
| which countries did have high standards for everyone but
| no "too rich" (whatever that def means. Is more than 1
| million dollars too much?) people?
| atq2119 wrote:
| I don't know about "too rich", but if you're looking at
| the distribution of income and wealth, you'll find an
| increasing divide between poor and rich over the last
| decades in pretty much all western countries at least.
| WalterBright wrote:
| If everyone's wealth goes up 10%, the gap between the
| rich and the poor increases.
|
| Besides, someone creating more wealth than you do does
| not hurt you.
| WalterBright wrote:
| > Societies have made the poor better off by preventing
| people from becoming too wealthy
|
| Example, please.
| madrox wrote:
| It's like that old saying, "where ever you go...there you
| are."
| david-gpu wrote:
| Yup. Jon Kabat-Zinn wrote a great book with the same
| title.
| giantrobot wrote:
| The much better philosopher Buckaroo Bonzai said it
| first.
| nox101 wrote:
| I'm not sure I'm convinced. I guess I haven't had _real
| money_.
|
| I had > 1m at one point. It was enough not to work. It
| wasn't enough to experiment with random things without
| risk. Couldn't buy a house in NYC,SF,LA,Seattle. Would just
| have to go back to work. Couldn't start a business for a
| project that required 10-20 people. Couldn't really start
| co-working space for 20-40 people at current rent prices
| without feeling like I'd probably just be throwing away a
| few hundred k.
|
| What I could do is travel. Could also live anywhere for a
| few years.
|
| OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and
| more. I might hire people to do them. There are 5 to 10
| apps I'd like to see exist. Would be happy to pay some
| people to make them and make them open source, if I had FU
| money. Would love to start a tech-interactive-art museum
| the size of at least most major museums in big cities.
| Would consider funding startups.
|
| I have one friend, x-coworker, that picked a different path
| than me and made lots of $$$ (no idea how much). But, they
| invest in startups. Goal is to invest $1 million a year.
| They visit startups and pitch events once or twice a month.
| They also have a personal project. Otherwise they travel
| with their S.O. and visit their adult kids around the
| world.
| david-gpu wrote:
| _> OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and
| more_
|
| Sure, there's no lack of things that one can do with
| money. But would you be substantially happier? That's the
| issue at hand. Do you look at people with exorbitant
| wealth and see unlimited happiness? Do they appear to be
| in a permanent state of contentment and satisfaction?
| vidarh wrote:
| What I've learned, both in terms of personal experience
| and from reading up on the psychology, is that to
| maximize happiness over time you need to optimize for
| ensuring you can maintain a steady upward trajectory.
|
| Win the lottery or sell a company? Invest most of it, and
| allow yourself a "raise" you can permanently sustain
| every year.
|
| It will do far more for you than raising your expenditure
| once, as you get used to it and return to near your
| baseline happiness very quickly.
| potatoman22 wrote:
| I'd imagine this applies to emotional health as well as
| financial and physical health.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hah, the only time I had that kind of money was the 10
| minutes my bank transferred the loan amount to my bank
| account so I could transfer it to the housing company. It
| didn't really feel like mine though, since they were both
| breathing over my neck to check I actually did so xD
| throwaway2037 wrote:
| > Would love to start a tech-interactive-art museum
|
| Check out "TeamLab Planets TOKYO DMM.com". Ref: https://e
| n.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeamLab_Planets_TOKYO_DMM.com
| nox101 wrote:
| Yes, TeamLab is the low-hanging fruit, low-effort version
| of what I wanted to see
| distances wrote:
| > OTOH, if I had F.U. money, I would do those things and
| more
|
| I get what you mean, but having enough not to work is the
| definition of FU money. It means you can just drop your
| things and leave when the boss demands you something
| you're not willing to do.
| OJFord wrote:
| Nobody takes it literally like that though, because at
| least in a better job market way too many people have
| that money.
|
| If you want to tie it to a single scenario I'd say it's
| taken on a meaning more like 'I'll do what I want to
| you/your business/parking because I don't care about
| paying to sort it out if I'm sued'. Parking where I
| 'can't' & paying the 100x fine seems better to me than
| finding where I 'can' and paying the 1x ticket sort of
| thing. Not to say everyone's morals would have them act
| like that, but illustratively.
| distances wrote:
| I'm sure we've just been in different discussions, the
| "enough so that I can treat this work as a hobby"
| definition is the one I've ever seen before.
| erikerikson wrote:
| 1m is more then enough for some people to not work. You
| may need to be willing to be frugal and change your ideas
| about what comprises a good lifestyle.
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| I suppose it depends on a person. I am pretty sure the more
| money I have started to make throughout my life the happier
| I have become. Simply because of having more freedom over
| how I spend my time. I feel like there is almost infinite
| amount of things to do in this World, I just wish I was
| able to 24/7 do those things. I don't have enough to not
| work for rest of my life, but I have been able to buy my
| own apartment, house, which has given me a lot of
| confidence in my self and feelings of freedom. I started
| out with no connections or education though.
|
| I am sure it can be different for everyone, people see the
| World differently.
| jjeaff wrote:
| I think that is most people's experience but it only
| works up to a point. you will get diminishing returns the
| more money you have until, in some cases, maybe negative
| returns.
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| Probably diminishing returns, but sometimes I think there
| is also selection bias, with ultra rich getting there
| because of never ending satisfaction, so it is contingent
| on the type of the human. Satisified person would stop
| sooner while never satisfied would naturally become the
| richest.
| david-gpu wrote:
| All that sounds sadly familiar. Once you cross the
| threshold of not having to work for a living, the
| illusion fades away.
|
| You are still you, your problems are still there, you are
| still bound to a slowly decaying body, there's no _GAME
| OVER_ banner and credit roll proving that you have won
| the game of life. Because you haven 't. Hah.
|
| You can of course keep yourself entertained with all
| sorts of stupid stuff that doesn't actually matter. Or
| you can accept that there are still only a handful of
| things that bring people contentment, and you don't need
| to be financially independent to do any of them. I'm
| talking about bland obvious stuff like spending some time
| with loved ones (including pets and plants), going out
| for a walk in the park, etc. Unsurprisingly, a ton of
| retirees do just that. It's not because they are old and
| can't do anything else, it's because they have finally
| figured out what works.
|
| And it's not like doing five times as much of that stuff
| is going to make you five times happier, either. Anybody
| with a full time job can carve out some quality time
| instead of arguing with strangers online.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| It's also the case that having enough money not to work
| makes it very simple to engage in self destructive
| behaviour.
|
| If you have a 9 to 5 then you're waking up at sunrise and
| going to bed some time after sunset. You're probably
| commuting, getting out in the world, chatting to people
| even if it's just the colleagues, Starbucks drive
| through, supermarket checkout clerk, that sort of thing.
|
| If you have retirement level money and you're alone there
| is absolutely nothing stopping you from waking up at 2pm,
| sitting on your computer playing World of Warcraft
| ordering takeaways, not going out for a walk or seeing
| the sunlight, getting slightly more depressed each day in
| a spiral.
|
| There's also nothing stopping you from going out drinking
| every day or every other of the week, shrugging off the
| hangover then hitting the next one. And so on and so
| forth.
|
| People easily underestimate how much their sense of well-
| being is related to simple things like just going for a
| walk in the sunshine every now and then or eating
| properly.
| david-gpu wrote:
| Yeah, that all hits close to home.
|
| I find that having a daily schedule and trying to stick
| to it helps. Also, going for small quality of life
| improvements, trying things out to see what works and
| what doesn't, such as a different pillow, or replacing
| some foods with alternatives.
|
| Having free time forces you to deal with all the
| emotional baggage you have accumulated over the years and
| it's a bit much, too. I was obsessed with saving money so
| that my family wouldn't struggle if I became unable to
| work; as a result, I didn't process the reasons why I had
| that fear in the first place. My dad became severely
| disabled when I was in college and it was a very
| traumatic experience for my family.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Ouch, that hurt. And I'm not even financially
| independent!
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| I have had multiple different life routines. Healthy fit,
| alcoholic, depression and self pity, video games no life,
| productivity hacking self help guru following, career
| climbing, start up attempting. Considering having been
| through all of these and knowing how each of them feel, I
| would hope I have enough experience and urge to opt for
| the healthy fit as baseline. I think it is still much
| easier to go for it having no work stress in life.
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| I think having kids should help a lot. I'm spending
| around an hour every evening with mine and a few hours
| during weekends, but neither me nor they feel this is
| enough. I would also go skiing for 2 weeks every winter
| with my family and rent a cottage in the countryside for
| whole summer holidays, but I have neither money nor time
| to do it.
|
| The irony of the situation is that by the time I earn the
| money my kids will grow up, leaving me a sad lonely man.
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| One reason why I truly hope I have enough financial
| independence by the time I have kids. But maybe you can
| become a good grandpa at some point?
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| I gave it some thought and overall I'm happy my kids have
| happened relatively early. More than money or anything
| they need your energy and enthusiasm. As much as I
| complain about the lack of time, I think it's better than
| lack of energy and stamina. At least that's what I
| extrapolate from my experience so far.
|
| For example, even between my two children I noticed that
| with the second one I've had sleeping issues, while with
| the first one I couldn't understand what "sleepless
| nights" everyone talks about. Like, a newborn kid at
| night sleeps 50 minutes out of every hour and so did I at
| the age of 25, being fresh and well rested in the
| morning. Didn't work as well at the age 31. Can't really
| imagine what it must feel after 40. And in general I
| would prefer healthy sleep over money and time.
| david-gpu wrote:
| _> More than money or anything they need your energy and
| enthusiasm_
|
| _> I think it 's better than lack of energy and stamina.
| At least that's what I extrapolate from my experience so
| far_
|
| I had children late --essentially retired when my second
| was born at 40-- and I completely agree: it would have
| been better to have the last kid before we turned 35. You
| made the right choice!
| saagarjha wrote:
| Like all things, financial independence means it's one of
| the things you can stop worrying about, and focus on what
| you think matters. It means you don't have other people
| telling you what you must do 8 hours of the day. Of
| course, some very very rich people have decided what they
| want to do is argue with strangers online. But that's
| their choice to make ;)
| mewpmewp2 wrote:
| Decaying body might be one of the toughest arguments
| there, which unless we find a way to stop this, my
| solution would be to have kids and develop them instead
| of myself. Since I do like competitive sports and it is
| kind of hard to accept that at some point I am no longer
| going to be able to improve.
|
| It may be the case that once I reach complete and
| comfortable financial independence it will not be all I
| expected it to be, but right now I don't see myself not
| appreciating the hell out of it, however I am sure plenty
| of people have thought they would be happy when reaching
| X goal and they either weren't or it was fleeting. I do
| have to say that so far I have come a long way from where
| I used to be from what I consider a hopeless position.
|
| But there is a difference in my view whether you can walk
| in the park knowing that you don't have any potentially
| stressful responsibilities and problems coming up or you
| are walking in the park and excited about working on a
| hobby project of yours since you can 100 percent focus on
| that.
| layer8 wrote:
| > my solution would be to have kids and develop them
| instead of myself
|
| I never understood that kind of argument. Your kids will
| have decaying bodies just the same. You're only
| recreating what you're trying to escape, in somebody
| else.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| One (or both?) of you is coming at this from the wrong
| angle. Faced with limitations, you have to find ways of
| living with them, working around them, and still living a
| fulfilling life.
|
| That might mean you cannot travel the same way in
| retirement that you did in your 20's. That doesn't mean
| you still can't enjoy it, just that you need to take
| things slower and be gentler with your body.
| xedrac wrote:
| Having/raising kids has been the most rewarding and
| challenging experience of my life. I cannot imagine how
| meaningless life would be to have all the money in the
| world and no kids.
| david-gpu wrote:
| I couldn't have said it better. It is an immense change
| for the better and for the worse, and it made us feel
| like that's when we truly became adults. It's one of
| those experiences that you can't understand until you go
| through it.
|
| And I say this as somebody who _really_ did not want the
| responsibility of raising children.
| tasuki wrote:
| > I just wish I was able to 24/7 do those things
|
| Wait, you don't?
|
| Do you have less than 24 hours a day to do things?
| yojo wrote:
| What research there is suggests money/happiness follows a
| log-linear relationship.[1] So it kind of does buy
| happiness, but the rate of increase falls off pretty fast
| over the range most of us experience.
|
| 1: https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2208661120
| mcmcmc wrote:
| What a load. Only someone who has always had money would say
| this
| Rodeoclash wrote:
| Correct, because only by having money can most people
| understand the situation. You've proven this yourself by
| calling it "a load".
|
| Zen monks have attained this understanding without the need
| to make the money first however.
| mcmcmc wrote:
| No, you cannot make the comparison between having money
| and not having money if you have never _not_ had money.
| If you have _always_ had money, you have _never_ known
| the difficulty of living without it.
| intended wrote:
| I never read any of the comments here as belittling what
| it is to be poor.
|
| It reads to me as being critical of the assumption that
| being rich makes you happy.
|
| This is reflected by many people who became rich and self
| destructive.
| nextlevelwizard wrote:
| That is the entire point.
|
| Money removes unhappiness and raises you to a baseline, but
| after that it doesn't provide extra happiness in and of it
| self.
| saagarjha wrote:
| It can, if you use it wisely. It's just not that you eat
| the money yourself, you apply it to things you want to
| do. That could be buying guitars, or it could be setting
| up solar panels in Ghana. There's a lot of things you can
| do with money.
| Rodeoclash wrote:
| 100% - it takes away your hope. In this case, that by "making
| it" in the world of startups will fill the void in your life.
| nextlevelwizard wrote:
| Yep. I am not even rich. In fact compared to US software
| engineers I am making pennies, but I am hitting above average
| for where I live. And at times it is hard to find meaning in
| every day life. I like my job, but realistically I could quit
| now and just about coast with my savings for the rest of my
| life. On other hand I could increase my spending and live
| more luxurious life style, but that isn't for me. I just like
| to code, play video games, and be alone in peace and quiet.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Honestly, if I ever reach the point where my savings would
| keep me comfortable with a pension to look forward to pick
| up the slack at the end, I'd quit my job and just focus on
| my interests, providing a clean house and having a good
| meal ready in the evening for my wife and son, and develop
| some side gigs I can give up if they don't give me
| fulfilment.
|
| As it is, I am acutely aware of my privileges as part of a
| household with two IT-based incomes and not too many
| worries, and that the world being what it is right now is
| giving rise to so many uncertainties that I wouldn't dream
| of abandoning this unless I had a really big bag of money
| like the author.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| > Honestly, if I ever reach the point where my savings
| would keep me comfortable ... I'd quit my job and just
| focus on my interests
|
| Pretty much everyone says this, but surprisingly few
| people actually seem to succeed at it when push-comes-to-
| shove
| tjr wrote:
| https://philip.greenspun.com/materialism/early-
| retirement/
|
| _Ask a wage slave what he 'd like to accomplish. Chances
| are the response will be something like "I'd start every
| day at the gym and work out for two hours until I was as
| buff as Brad Pitt. Then I'd practice the piano for three
| hours. I'd become fluent in Mandarin so that I could be
| prepared to understand the largest transformation of our
| time. I'd really learn how to handle a polo pony. I'd
| learn to fly a helicopter. I'd finish the screenplay that
| I've been writing and direct a production of it in HDTV."
|
| Why hasn't he accomplished all of those things? "Because
| I'm chained to this desk 50 hours per week at this
| horrible [insurance|programming|government|administrative
| |whatever] job.
|
| So he has no doubt that he would get all these things
| done if he didn't have to work? "Absolutely none. If I
| didn't have the job, I would be out there living the
| dream."
|
| Suppose that the guy cashes in his investments and does
| retire. What do we find? He is waking up at 9:30 am,
| surfing the Web, sorting out the cable TV bill, watching
| DVDs, talking about going to the gym, eating Doritos, and
| maybe accomplishing one of his stated goals.
|
| Retirement forces you to stop thinking that it is your
| job that holds you back. For most people the depressing
| truth is that they aren't that organized, disciplined, or
| motivated._
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| The big question for me has become health insurance. Yes,
| I know ACA plans are a thing I just _< side eyes incoming
| administration>_ don't trust it not to be messed with.
| Protections for preexisting conditions are the only
| reason retirement is even an eventual possibility for me.
|
| I worry that I don't have enough of a life outside of
| work to make retirement fulfilling, and actually, I don't
| actually _mind_ working if I 'm completely honest. I just
| never liked the stress of _needing_ a job.
| purplethinking wrote:
| Almost at that point myself. Thinking about doing another
| year or two to save up an additional buffer, and make sure
| we're not right before another 2008-like event before I
| pull the plug. Start my own company, maybe make some money,
| maybe not. I'm tired of the grind. I'm tired every single
| day, and there's no time or energy to try to fix it. At
| this point I just want to be left alone, in peace and
| quiet...
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Nothing wrong with that. I find creating and supporting
| creators to be fulfilling.
| kamaal wrote:
| Unhappy for different reasons is not the same.
|
| Being unhappy because you are homeless is not the same being
| unhappy because some woman doesn't treat you like she would
| do a man who looks better than you are just two different
| things.
| morpheos137 wrote:
| As someone who has not been successful in life but who is
| relatively intelligent do you have any recommendations as to
| how I can get my life on track?
|
| I am asking because you said you like developing people. My
| persistent experience in life for almost 20 years post college
| has been nobody wants to develop me.
|
| I am not in tech but I am generally interested in the area if
| it can lead me to greater independence and more interesting
| work.
|
| I like jobs that are intellectually engaging and ideally
| somewhat physically active.
|
| Right now I am working in a mechanical role.
|
| Sometimes I like the work but more often than not I find that
| good problem solving ability is not valued and the pay is
| dismal vs. what people earn in tech.
|
| I have a BA in economics but unfortunately have never used it.
| 37 years old.
| wsintra2022 wrote:
| Learn a musical instrument. Stick at it and over time you
| will find you can create music , which will make you feel
| successful.
| vixen99 wrote:
| Excellent advice. For those for whom it's appropriate, do
| try it. As you suggest, therein lies that special
| essentially private pleasure of accomplishment in small
| things that doesn't depend on the approbation of others.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| It's unlikely you'll find someone who takes an interest in
| developing you, who isn't a personal connection or someone
| you pay, in my experience. You will probably have to take the
| first step yourself, either to develop yourself or to find
| and develop a nurturing relationship.
| madrox wrote:
| I can't speak to your specific circumstances, but perhaps
| this will help.
|
| I find that people I talk to with chronic job dissatisfaction
| have a difficult time taking risks, because despite not
| liking their current circumstances, the unknown can be scary.
|
| There are known pathways to work in tech or other fields,
| such as coding camps or community college. It becomes a
| question of what you're willing to sacrifice to make that
| happen. Would you move to a new city? Go back to school? Give
| up your evenings and weekends? Usually, some kind of risk
| needs to be taken, and there's always a path forward if you
| look.
|
| I didn't graduate college until I was 29, and now that I'm in
| my mid-40s I can say that while every risk I took didn't pay
| off, it was in the taking of risks that has left me feeling
| satisfied with where I am.
| tough wrote:
| Dog on rusty nail parabole comes to mind
|
| https://www.hashtagyourlife.com/stories/dog-rusty-nail
| AdieuToLogic wrote:
| > As someone who has not been successful in life but who is
| relatively intelligent do you have any recommendations as to
| how I can get my life on track?
|
| I'm not the OP, but instead just a person who thinks they
| might be of help. Caveat emptor and all that :-).
|
| Success is what we define both in and of ourselves. Some use
| material measurements (money, titles, assets, etc.), which
| are intrinsically relative and thus ephemeral.
|
| Another definition is establishing a sustained environment of
| happiness. This includes addressing immediate physical needs,
| such as a place to live, sustenance, and the like. More than
| that is finding happiness in how we live each day.
|
| > My persistent experience in life for almost 20 years post
| college has been nobody wants to develop me.
|
| While some may give tips and/or pointers as to how to develop
| oneself, IMHO, much like happiness, development comes from
| within. Seeking wise counsel is always a good call, but no
| one can develop another. All anyone else can do is give
| perspective from their own journey as it relates to you -
| mine is you have identified options above which are
| appealing, so pursue them as if no one else is going to
| anything to make it happen.
|
| > I have a BA in economics but unfortunately have never used
| it.
|
| You still have it and one never knows when the education we
| have helps out until it does. ;)
| geraldwhen wrote:
| If you figure it out, pass it on to others. I haven't been
| allowed to hire Americans in quite some time, and Covid
| destroyed any company support of an apprenticeship type
| setup.
|
| The last time I was able to hire an American with a will to
| learn and an adjacent degree was over a decade ago.
| remh wrote:
| I've hired dozens of smart Americans with the right degree
| and willingness to learn and I was not even American
| myself. I worked with hundreds more. Not sure what you're
| talking about.
| cheema33 wrote:
| > life for almost 20 years post college has been nobody wants
| to develop me.
|
| Is that really possible? I have often thought that the only
| person that can develop you, is you.
|
| Sure you might get some good advice from some people, maybe a
| helping hand, a business loan or grant etc. but I don't view
| that as development.
|
| Your biggest asset is you. Don't be reluctant to use it.
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| Double down on that last bit: everything you learn and do
| adds to the equity that is you. That equity pays back in
| multitudes throughout your life, not just professionally
| but also socially and spiritually.
| advael wrote:
| Okay but for the vast overwhelming majority of people, what
| they actually need is "a helping hand, a business loan or
| grant etc"
|
| You talk about this like this is trivial, but it's the kind
| of material help that would make a difference for almost
| everyone who is currently not doing what they want in life
|
| Yes, no one can teach you to self-actualize. People's
| material circumstances are rarely a result of inadequate
| self-actualization or agency, despite what the self-help
| industry would like you to believe.
|
| Most "high-agency" people who succeed started out with
| either adequate resources to at least support themselves
| while they tried stuff, reliable backup plans (like living
| with supportive family), or help in the form of stuff like
| grants or startup funding. People who don't have that need
| that, regardless of their mindset or abilities. There are
| exceptions who got incredibly lucky, and they are a
| rounding error among rounding errors. That is the world we
| live in. There are ways to engineer a world where this is
| less the case, but at least in the US, we seem to choose
| not to move in this direction at every opportunity, and
| freak out when even minor forms of the security necessary
| to act with agency take hold for large numbers of people
| (See: The business world's hysterical reaction to COVID
| relief)
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >Sometimes I like the work but more often than not I find
| that good problem solving ability is not valued and the pay
| is dismal vs. what people earn in tech.
|
| I'm not sure the high wages in tech are going to last,
| universities having been minting new CS graduates like there
| is no tomorrow. Alongside that demand appears to be flagging.
| I'm sure you remember enough from your BA to know what the
| result of that is.
| ghostpepper wrote:
| Choose companies to work for based on who you will be working
| with and what they can teach you, not by how much they pay.
| You never want to be the smartest person in the room.
| scotty79 wrote:
| > No path out of this valley involves traveling alone.
|
| Unless you have a schizoid personality.
| zusammen wrote:
| _I don 't think you have to have Fuck You Money to get to this
| point. Most people eventually become disillusioned with work
| enough that they reevaluate what matters to them. Getting a
| very profitable exit is just one way to trigger that
| experience._
|
| I've seen a lot of people have random outlier success they
| didn't earn and it seems to have the same effect as what most
| people get out of their careers: crushing failure they didn't
| earn. By 50 or so, everyone figures out:
|
| * it was almost all random. * the things that seemed so
| important were not. * working for money is a waste of time for
| almost everyone. * you can count your real friends on two
| hands, whether you're broke or a billionaire.
|
| It's surprising how the paths converge. There are differences,
| and the rich version of alienation is better than the poor one,
| but the mindset this society leaves people with is remarkably
| stable. No one feels like they won, which is why Musk and Trump
| are so full of rage at everyone. Either the gods shut you out
| or you are forced to find out that the gods never existed.
| KolmogorovComp wrote:
| Thank you for this post, remarkably articulated, I concur.
| eastbound wrote:
| > working for money is a waste of time for almost everyone
|
| No. Chance doesn't fall evenly. It falls more often on those
| who work.
|
| Thinking that Trump is full of rage is missing the forest for
| the tree. It's a forest of journalists who are full of rage
| that this race and gender unapologetically exists, who try to
| depaint Trump as full of rage. It's a forest of selfish crowd
| who wants the fruit of the labor of the second half of
| people, who complain that Trump is selfish.
|
| Looked at the tree. Missed the entire forest. Not surprising
| that you think people are struck by a lightening to become
| billionaire.
|
| Chop chop chop, back to work, quit being jealous.
| totallynothoney wrote:
| Extrapolate from your current lifestyle. What will you have
| in your last year alive?
| dasil003 wrote:
| There's a lot of truth in what you are saying, but I also
| think this framing can lead to unnecessary nihilism and
| depression.
|
| I think the simple reason that no one feels like they've won
| is because we're not biologically wired for that. Like all
| living things, we've evolved to struggle for survival in a
| harsh environment. Of course modern civilization has
| separated us from that harsh reality by layers upon layers of
| human systems and supply chains, so we apply the same
| instincts to games of our own devising. There's nothing
| actually wrong with this though. The problem comes from the
| belief that "winning" will make one happy. The reality is
| ones drive leads to engagement and perhaps accomplishment,
| but it can't answer the why. That is something every person
| with leisure time needs to work out for themselves.
| workflowsauce wrote:
| > Something I did not read in this essay is how he grew closer
| to anyone (in fact, I read the opposite). No path out of this
| valley involves traveling alone.
|
| I think he needs to get closer to himself. I think he's on the
| right track.
| madrox wrote:
| I've found that you don't see yourself without people around
| you to hold up a mirror
| o1o1o1 wrote:
| Exactly this. Also, it is difficult to find those people
| when you're already rich and unemployed because most of us
| form these kind of meaningful relationships in school, at
| work etc.
| justinclift wrote:
| > Something I did not read in this essay is how he grew closer
| to anyone (in fact, I read the opposite).
|
| Yeah. The entire blog post (to me) gives the strong impression
| that the author is an extremely self centred, selfish... er...
| prick.
|
| Maybe they'll learn to be less that way over time, and
| hopefully their ex-girlfriend learns to avoid ungrateful
| people.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| It also gives a strong impression of somebody who is afraid
| of asking for help. The entire post could be summarized as "I
| feel like an important self-made man and I'm scared of
| starting therapy that I clearly need to help me sort out my
| enormous insecurities"
| nico wrote:
| > No path out of this valley involves traveling alone
|
| In my opinion, this is the big take here
|
| When you have enough money to not work, it becomes very lonely
| fast
|
| All of a sudden you have tons of time, but no one to share it
| with. Everyone is busy, mostly with work (also, most people
| probably can't afford the same things you can)
|
| If you could coordinate to stop working at the same time as
| your significant other, and a few friends, then you at least
| would have a group to plan and do stuff with
|
| One of the biggest meanings we can find in life, is the feeling
| of belonging
|
| OP seems to be going through a belonging crisis. Trying to
| figure out what group he wants to belong to
| varelse wrote:
| To each their own. Having grown up isolated and ostracized
| then forced in adulthood to mingle to nurture my career, I
| deeply enjoy solitude with my dog. It lets me focus on my
| projects and my hobbies. And it lets me minimize dealing with
| the complications of other souls. The embrace of the open
| office floor plan and floating desks was the last nail in the
| coffin there. Probably some neurodivergence in play here but
| that's who I am. Entry-Level plutocracy finally gave me the
| freedom to live the way I've wanted to live the whole time.
| But do go on about how I'm the weirdo and we need to rely on
| the wisdom of perfectly normal sorts like Elon Musk and Marc
| Andreison, I'm all ears.
|
| The ridiculous unending pandemic only strengthened my resolve
| to avoid people in crowds for the rest of my life. Not
| everyone needs the connection you think they need. And short
| of your mother, no one will love you like your dog.
|
| And it's not like I don't have friends, I do. And I accept
| their insanity as much as they accept mine. That's all the
| belonging I seem to need.
|
| OP sounds like a rich white dude having rich white dude
| problems. Boo... Hoo... He might want to try working for a
| charity for a while to reset his Maslow Hierarchy. At $60
| million or more, he's about 1 in 5,000 on the net worth
| ranking ladder. He needs to get past this failure of
| imagination he's experiencing and he's the only one that can
| bring the moment of clarity that will allow that. Don't go
| through life a freedom hater.
| sentientslug wrote:
| Weird that you brought race into it, especially when your
| supposition is incorrect.
| NicholasGurr wrote:
| > OP sounds like a rich white dude having rich white dude
| problems.
|
| Lol. His name is in the URL, and it doesn't sound white.
| LordAtlas wrote:
| > OP sounds like a rich white dude having rich white dude
| problems.
|
| Yeah, definitely white: https://www.google.com/search?q=vin
| ay+hiremath&btnG=Search&u...
| pfannkuchen wrote:
| This reminds me of that Supreme Court case from 1923
| where the entire case was about deciding "are Indians
| white".
|
| Crazy how that was not that long ago in historical terms.
| nico wrote:
| It seems like you grew into your loneliness and that you
| also did it consciously
|
| OP found himself alone rather fast and without truly
| realizing it was happening
|
| He'll probably get over it at some point, will find a group
| to belong to and redefine his identity along the way
|
| Neither situation is intrinsically better or worse, just
| different and subjective to each one of you
| freejazz wrote:
| > Elon Musk and Marc Andreison
|
| Between the three of you, I'd take none.
| gopalv wrote:
| > When you have enough money to not work, it becomes very
| lonely fast
|
| I haven't made enough to not work but once my US immigration
| was sorted out (H1B isn't very leisure compatible), I took a
| year off to rediscover what all passed me by when I was
| working.
|
| This was a lot of alone time, but not true loneliness.
|
| For example, I would set up lunch with a friend, they would
| bail due to work emergencies or something but I would go eat
| there anyway.
|
| Quickly learned to go to a place where multiple people were
| scheduled anyway, like heading to Berkley for a tech talk on
| Byzantine block chains or vector search algorithms, hoping
| something would interest me.
|
| > OP seems to be going through a belonging crisis. Trying to
| figure out what group he wants to belong to
|
| The first three months were a strange struggle with my Ego,
| because a large part of my "Get up and do things" was the
| belief that what I had to do was very important to others and
| the whole world stops if I stop moving. To get through the
| waves in life without feeling self pity about it, I honestly
| felt my work was what made the sun rise and the rain fall.
|
| Suddenly, my self importance was shot to pieces immediately.
|
| I wasn't important anymore, what I did wasn't important to
| others but only to me. All the years of sacrificing my own
| wants (not needs) suddenly felt dissonant.
|
| Plus a lot of activities aren't cumulative in the way work is
| - cooking dinner today does nothing for dinner tomorrow,
| there's no way to add up that to something.
|
| Work is particularly rewarding because it checks those two
| boxes for me - it adds up to something, slowly every day,
| plus what I do is important to others in way where they want
| you to succeed (unlike say training for the SF marathon,
| where it's all "I could never" from people who could, but
| don't want to).
|
| Eventually, I went back to work, but now I drink that
| workahol in moderation.
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| I did the same as OP. Quit my job then started distancing from
| everyone and removing responsibility in the pursuit of freedom
| to do what I want. But all I did was wallow and stay alone. Not
| sure what the answer is but your insights were very powerful to
| read.
| potatoman22 wrote:
| I've found myself in a similar position. I'm trying to figure
| out how to not be self-destructive, but I feel the urge to
| distance myself from people.
| cwalv wrote:
| The book of Ecclesiastes is about this. It makes more sense
| if you s/meaningless/vapor/g, i.e. we're all chasing after
| something like smoke that we can see but can't 'catch'.
| Tistron wrote:
| I love that book. Haven't read much of the bible, but
| totally recommend anyone to read this Buddhist sutra that
| was smuggled in somehow :)
| ryandvm wrote:
| Fascinating that your version said "vapor". That's a much
| better translation. The versions I've read called it
| "vanity" which was even more obtuse. Once I figured out
| that they meant something insubstantial and fleeting, I
| found that particular book beautiful.
| random42 wrote:
| I am currently at the same place, with no reasonable place
| out. How did you solve it?
| madrox wrote:
| I think the shortest way of putting it is: stay curious;
| find people willing to teach you; teach others what you've
| been successful at.
| benjam47 wrote:
| I find this to be very familiar. I worked endlessly to be
| able to have no responsibility and endless freedom. My
| partner passed away several years ago now, and I still
| haven't filled that void. I'm not unhappy by any means, but
| money and freedom are a poor substitute for companionship.
| tasuki wrote:
| Similar boat! I also worked hard to have freedom, and then
| my partner died, two and half years ago. I was left with a
| toddler, so don't have that much freedom. Sometimes I think
| perhaps it's ok this way...
| purplethinking wrote:
| But why did you need to distance yourself from others? Or was
| that just a consequence from your other lifestyle choices?
| wtarreau wrote:
| I suspect it might feel indecent to tell others you suffer
| when you're both free and rich, and it's difficult for them
| to figure what's wrong with you.
|
| Instead, people in such position should probably go out and
| join associations which distribute food to those who need
| it. At least they'll see that they're doing something good
| to improve others' condition and would probably feel
| better.
| shortrounddev2 wrote:
| How do you get to a point of developing people? What is that
| Job title? At work I'm the goto guy for junior engineers to ask
| questions to and I've been told I'm a naturally good teacher
| ghostpepper wrote:
| It's called management and the entry point is usually called
| tech lead / team lead or just manager. Mentoring juniors is a
| good way to start.
| simonswords82 wrote:
| Contact your local university, most have mentorship
| programmes you can apply to be a part of for under and post
| grads.
| freediver wrote:
| > I don't think you have to have Fuck You Money to get to this
| point.
|
| To add to this, the 'modern' use of the word 'millionare'
| started in 1850 (discounting first use in 1719 in France which
| was not in the context of 'rich' we know).
|
| When you adjust for inflation, a comperable purchase power
| today would be an equivalent of having net worth of $250M.
| Anything below that and you aren't even a 'true' millionare.
| ($1 USD in 1850 is roughly ~$250 USD in 2024, taking 3.2%
| average historic inflation rate).
|
| So, author, you are not even rich, still work to do ;)
| drdude wrote:
| I am drowning in debt since I graduated from my PhD, all I get
| is rejections for my job applications... I want to learn how to
| be rich because that is the only way I can get back to the US
| and live with my kids and provide for them (US born, living
| with their mom).
|
| Thanks in anticipation.
| TedHerman wrote:
| Do nothing until you realize there's something to be done but
| it's too late.
| optimiz3 wrote:
| Take up trading, it will give you something to do, and afterwards
| you won't need to worry about being rich!
| dagurp wrote:
| I became debt free about a year ago and thought I should get
| into investing. It turned out that it's incredibly boring to me
| and because of that I haven't been able to learn it properly. I
| also thought that if I became really good at it, I would just
| have more money that I don't know how to spend.
| Kye wrote:
| You did a speed run of what people discover when they work their
| entire life for retirement, get there, and realize they don't
| know what they were working _for_.
|
| Retirement
|
| F-U money ("FIRE" in modern parlance I guess)
|
| Save n dollars
|
| It's all the same: too abstract. That you were able to discover
| it _now_ with plenty of life left and plenty of resources to
| figure it out is worth more than the money.
|
| Personally, I always try to keep enough saved to replace my
| computer all at once if it dies on me. If I lose that, it's hard
| to pursue my hobbies and interests while trying to figure out
| which parts of them I can sell without losing what made them
| interesting in the first place.
|
| For what to do with it, I found it helpful to pick a hobby, any
| hobby, and pursue it for a year. You probably have a lot of these
| left. For me: One for music. One for photography. One for writing
| (fiction). One for writing (nonfiction). All the skills
| complement each other. I'm about to pull the trigger on buying a
| set of tools for recording podcasts and audiobooks to help deal
| with my significant speaking anxiety. The skills from the writing
| and music eras are especially helpful here!
|
| This process started back in 2017 when I found myself with no
| steering or engine power on my way into a turn lane in the rain
| and fog. I'm glad your existential crisis didn't start with a
| near death experience!
| dataviz1000 wrote:
| Sounds a lot like the guy who said I have 23 gold medals and have
| no idea what to do (Michael Phelps). Although it isn't a DSM
| recognized condition, psychologists often refer to the depression
| of people who obtain the pinnacle of success as "post-gold medal
| depression." Here is an article about it. [0]
|
| "What shall we ever do?" -- T.S. Eliot - The Wasteland
|
| "What SHOULD we do?" -- Dr. Seuss - The Cat in the Hat
|
| "What should we do?" -- Shakespeare - Hamlet
|
| When I'm bored I like to read poetry.
|
| [0]
| https://www.npr.org/sections/thetorch/2016/09/08/493111873/a...
| skirmish wrote:
| "What Is To Be Done?" -- V. Lenin
| dataviz1000 wrote:
| Pretty sure Lenin wasn't writing about ennui.
| partomniscient wrote:
| "My hovercraft is full of eels." -- John Cleese - Monty
| Python's Flying Circus, Episode 25.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| I feel sorry for the girlfriend, invested months or years into
| the relationship and left with nothing after the dude got rich
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| If she was his de-facto partner during the creation and sale of
| his company, she will have done alright.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| Defacto? Doesn't exist in USA
| willseth wrote:
| He wouldn't have said "girlfriend" if they were married.
| taway1874 wrote:
| I'd say she dodged a bullet. Hope this psycho never has any
| offspring. The world has enough of them already.
| luke-stanley wrote:
| Why not map out suffering and ways people optimally can learn to
| solve it, using our collective intelligence? I mean, if you're
| looking for ideas. Hopefully someone gets around to that one.
| willseth wrote:
| Yeah altruism, but more...effective. Wonder if anyone has
| looked into that idea and if so how it worked out.
| luke-stanley wrote:
| Do you mean has anyone looked into making suffering models
| like people do weather models for regional / global maps to
| predict likely suffering and remediation? Or are you just
| pointing to touchy EA issues?
| willseth wrote:
| Just joking about EA, who did exactly what you are
| suggesting, then it went promptly off the rails. But maybe
| they've regrouped since FTX, I don't know.
| uncomplexity_ wrote:
| sucks to get what you want, no? haha
|
| always amazed how life is like that
|
| we get more high from chasing something than achieving something
| cwiz wrote:
| You're about to discover political foundations on which this
| world runs. That leaving working class is a bad idea.
| amelius wrote:
| Just realize that compared to Elon Musk you are a poor bastard.
| ocius wrote:
| Just as a side note because you mentioned it in relation to DOGE:
| the US government cannot go bankrupt in its own currency. As long
| as prices are kept in check, there is no reason not to create
| more money. The fact that the US has to pay interest on it
| doesn't change that. If the government decides to spend more
| money than it takes in, the money is simply created by the
| central bank (through the detour of bonds). If you are
| interested, read up on Keynesian economics and Modern Monetary
| Theory.
| tunesmith wrote:
| push it too far and inflation goes up though. It's "the dosage
| makes the poison". Then, printing even more money leads to
| hyperinflation, etc, etc
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| Ill fill in the blank - pushing it to far_________ inflation
| goes up
|
| You meant to add " and in particular if other countries start
| refusing it because it has the same value as toilet paper,
| except the dollar will leave your butt stained of black in,
| when used for bathroom purposes,"
| cladopa wrote:
| And if you are more interested, you can go and life in a
| country in which this non sense has been applied, like
| Zimbabue, Venezuela or Argentina.
|
| You take the richest and most prosperous countries on Earth and
| you make it miserable beyond recognition.
| Bloating wrote:
| "As long as prices are kept in check" Hello?
|
| MMT'ers act like they've discovered some new concept. MMT is
| not economics; its political spin, propaganda, down playing the
| harsh realities of economics (not just "late stage capitalism"
| or whatever the kids call resource constraints nowadays.)
| bccdee wrote:
| Odd that you think "late stage capitalism" describes resource
| constraints. It's really more a term to describe the bizarre
| economic consequences of increasing degrees of
| financialization turning every sector of the economy into
| speculative theatre.
|
| MMT is an elaborate way of describing the process of taxing
| investment capital away from existing capitalists such that
| the state can invest it itself. You may complain that the
| state would invest that capital poorly (others would counter
| that private VCs already do it poorly), but the essential
| economics of it is dead simple.
| UK-AL wrote:
| MMT isn't a set policies. It's a description of how money
| works, when you have fiat currency.
|
| Government is a source of money. Taxation is a sink. Too much
| money in the system you get inflation, not enough deflation.
|
| When you can print money taxation is just a way of
| controlling the amount of money in the economy almost by
| definition because you don't need tax to fund yourself when
| you can create money. Bonds just provide a stable financial
| instrument rather than a source of funding because you can
| literally just print money if you wanted to.
|
| The constraint on money is mainly inflation, and government
| debt and tax is used to control the money supply.
|
| That's it.
| paulpauper wrote:
| The Us is an outlier in this regard. Other countries have had
| major inflation and currency collapse. It's why predictions of
| 'US debt collapse' never come true although it is a real risk
| elsewhere.
| rtpg wrote:
| If the US is an outlier.... then it's fine for the US to
| continue down this path?
|
| Like in this supposed age of a US government spending crisis
| the dollar is extremely strong compared to other currencies.
| Where is the hyperinflation? How many decades will we need to
| wait?
| Aeolun wrote:
| Japan has been at it for several decades. The US seems to
| have a debt of 120% of GDP, and Japan of 250% of GDP, so I
| guess you're still good for a few decades more?
| ioblomov wrote:
| Exactly. There was a time when the British pound was the
| world's reserve currency (coinciding of course with British
| global hegemony). Fast-forward to today and the UK's GDP
| _per capita_ [1] is lower than the poorest US state's[2].
|
| 1.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom
|
| 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_te
| rrit....
| rtpg wrote:
| Perhaps the UK no longer controlling vast swaths of land
| would directly link to its decline, rather than its
| monetary policy.
| rat87 wrote:
| I'm far from understanding economics but my understanding is
| that Modern monetary theory is a somewhat fringe theory that
| gained some advocates especially before post pandemic inflation
| while Keynesian economics is although maybe a bit modified from
| the original largely accepted as part of the base of mainstream
| economics. They are very different. Also vast majority of
| countries have central banks and spend more then then save,
| it's hardly specific to the US (although the US gets cheaper
| rates because of its position)or a major concern (at least if
| the debt to GDP percentage doesn't grow too high, or if you're
| Japan).
| mouse_ wrote:
| Points for realizing ego and musk complex is a problem.
|
| Points deducted for still following through with musk complex
|
| Big points deducted for
|
| > NPC coworkers
|
| I have no doubt that this guy is very intelligent and capable,
| but he's also a totally emotionally immature sucker. Guy's got a
| classic case of (Minecraft) Notch Syndrome.
|
| He may yet find tranquility!
| eximius wrote:
| You sound like someone who has been in constant mania from a
| panic attack for, like, months.
|
| Stop. Breathe. Do something to relax.
|
| You very clearly need it, even if only to center yourself long
| enough to not throw yourself into the very next thing you see.
| robocat wrote:
| > constant mania
|
| "internet psychology diagnosis" is strongly discouraged on HN:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38589525
| ipaddr wrote:
| To me it sounds like he is rich but still hasn't earned enough to
| be extremely wealthy. The price of an nba team is about 5
| billion. Price of a twitter is 25 billion. It's going to take a
| lifetime of 60 million a year salary to even get in that range.
| He can keep going if he wants to or retire. There is always
| bigger things to buy.
|
| I would have taken the 60 million salary and changed the lives of
| many every year. That would give me purpose.. but that's not for
| everyone.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| The hedonic treadmill runs both ways. I'd venture many people
| successful on paper are driven by the need to escape something,
| for me, it's financial insecurity even though I was never poor
| nor am I close to it right now. If I were to be as financially
| successful as this fellow, I think I would soon find myself back
| to having the same fear\ or finding something to substitute it,
| regardless, the feeling or mood would be the same
| thn-gap wrote:
| What's the general recommendation for when this is the case?
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| Radical acceptance with savoring the moment itself works for
| me but it's definitely a Sisyphean (to stick with the ancient
| Greeks) endeavor to keep up.
| TrainedMonkey wrote:
| > It seems plausible, but I'm learning to just accept that I am
| happy learning physics. That's the goal in and of itself. If it
| leads to nothing, that's ok.
|
| This is it, the happy ending. Do things for the sake of doing
| them.
| dustingetz wrote:
| help more people. Use your skills and resources to accelerate
| progress in the areas in which you are sufficiently competent. If
| my startup exits i have zero doubt that I will continue in this
| way.
| layer8 wrote:
| At the start of the article, I was thinking "well, I would go
| deep on learning physics". Had a good chuckle at the end of the
| article.
| akamaka wrote:
| > I should work for Elon and Vivek at DOGE and help America get
| off its current crash to defaulting on its own debt
|
| I've got an idea: take some good economics courses so that you
| learn how government spending actually works.
| slumpt_ wrote:
| This stood out to me as well.
|
| A pitfall for experts in one field to assume their skills are
| transferable.
| snitty wrote:
| >experts in one field [assuming] their skills are
| transferable
|
| That appears to be the premise of DOGE.
|
| This sentence also killed me:
|
| >working on various projects I'm definitely not able to talk
| about
|
| It's not because they're classified. It's because a bunch of
| unaccountable private citizens are plotting behind closed
| doors to tear down the government.
| chipgap98 wrote:
| And they're doing it while unironically shouting about the
| tyranny of unelected bureaucrats
| mcculley wrote:
| It is a mark against our system that someone can get this
| rich without seeing a problem with all of this. We are told
| that capitalism makes smart people rich, but it does not
| appear to filter out gullible people.
| archagon wrote:
| This. The author may be well-meaning, but seems to have a naive
| understanding of economic and political realities. (Also, Elon
| and Vivek are only interested in enriching themselves and their
| cronies. DOGE is a grift -- don't give your labor to grifters.)
| adamtaylor_13 wrote:
| How is DOGE a grift? We need to curb our government's
| absolutely excessive waste.
| yks wrote:
| The premise is correct, but the trust in the executors is
| misplaced. One made money via government so there is a
| certain conflict of interest, another one is an ordinary
| American businessman with a questionable track record on
| the edge of ethics. That's right off the bat, on the
| merits, not even going into the politics.
| einrealist wrote:
| Because of the messaging, like cutting regulations, entire
| departments - things that have impact on the entire country
| and not just a company and its customer base.
|
| I believe, there is certainly a lot of room for
| improvements in government functions. But I also believe,
| those improvements are hidden in details and require actual
| work, other than just slashing funds, regulations or entire
| departments. Things are how they are for reasons. And those
| reasons will probably withstand deeper scrutiny, but not
| populism and conflicts of interest.
| sixo wrote:
| When you name your enlightened government-saving
| organization after a memecoin you own a mountain of, only
| bootlickers are going to think you're in it for altruistic
| reasons.
|
| This is similar to elon's tendency to dump boatloads of
| money in politics to beat the people he claims are cheating
| by... dumping boatloads of money in politics.
|
| If he wants any of this to be taken seriously by anyone
| other than his horde of bootlickers he needs to make
| "earning people's trust" a priority, even when it's opposed
| to his own interest. Instead he acts as though he's
| entitled to the public's trust because (he's sure) he's
| such a good guy, and he's (he's sure) actually acting in
| their interest. Doesn't work that way. Trust is earned by
| listening to people and by taking seriously what you hear
| from them--not by egoistic paternalism.
|
| Furthermore, these business people constantly talk in terms
| which reflect basically-wrong beliefs about how money works
| at a national level. A country is not a company. A dollar
| spent by a country can return to its coffers as taxes many
| times over, and this _basic_ fact breaks _any_ analogy
| between the two.
| VectorLock wrote:
| What they're going to end up cutting (and have) is children
| cancer research and infectious disease teams. Such
| "excessive waste!"
| dole wrote:
| DOGE is not an official government department, it's a
| presidential advisory committee. It's not going to have
| taxpayer funding, oversight and no far-reaching powers over
| other official departments besides shit-stirring and
| distraction.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| You think the people who "work" for/on DOGE will not be
| paid? Or you think that Musk is underwriting their
| paychecks?
| lenkite wrote:
| Initially only Musk was making a paycheck from DOGE -
| since you needed a X premium subscription to apply. So
| its more like _applicants_ were underwriting Musk 's
| paychecks - that's how a true-blue American capitalist
| operates.
|
| He changed it after some blowback but I have to admit -
| American businessmen are always cunning.
| 4fterd4rk wrote:
| We need to raise taxes, specifically on the people in
| charge of DOGE. You think that's what the plan's going to
| be?
| TrapLord_Rhodo wrote:
| When the debt surety payments are higher than our national
| security budget i agree wholeheartedly. We are spending
| more than we are making and it's growing every year. We
| cannot continue like this or our surety payments will be
| higher than all distretionary spending by 2032.
|
| I never understood the hate for Elon, vivek, trump. They
| aren't perfect people, but i'm really excited about the
| team he's been able to put together. Like who else has been
| able to hire every single person who ran against him? David
| sacs, elon, other extremely smart people....
|
| Other people here seem to act like going to school and
| doing economics to be at Doge are just so incredibly
| niave... We need a huge diversity of people.
|
| Despite all of trumps faults, he has built a powerhouse
| team that trancends party lines.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| DOGE hasn't done anything yet, so this is purely expressing
| prejudice.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| The people running it have track records we can assess, and
| have signaled their goals and in some cases stated them
| outright. This is simply judgement.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| Elon's track record is to consistently succeed
| spectacularly with things that most people find laughably
| impossible to do. That's why I don't dismiss this
| project.
|
| I missed there they stated outright that they're "only
| interested in enriching themselves and their cronies"?
| archagon wrote:
| There are two things rich Republicans hate more than
| anything in the world: the government spending "their"
| money on services for ordinary folks, and regulations
| preventing them from making even more money. This is
| often dressed up as "libertarianism," but in reality,
| it's simply worship of money as the ultimate virtue.
|
| What sorts of organizations does DOGE want to defund? The
| Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the IRS, the
| Department of Education, Planned Parenthood, PBS and NPR:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/lindseychoo/2024/11/27/elon-
| mus.... Nevermind that these make up a tiny portion of
| the intended 2 trillion in cuts.
|
| Adjacent to this, Republican leadership has clearly
| signaled that they wish to gut Social Security, Medicaid,
| and the ACA. Here's Robert Reich reading the tea leaves:
| https://www.greenevillesun.com/opinion/national_columns/r
| eic...
|
| Oh, I would not be surprised to see Musk "succeed
| spectacularly" in this endeavor. But that's because money
| is power, and Musk has more of it than anyone in the
| country. I mean, he even bought himself a president! It's
| difficult to lose when you can just keep throwing cash at
| the problem.
|
| By the way, nobody is ever going to tell you outright
| that they're "only interested in enriching themselves and
| their cronies." An intelligent adult should be able to
| interpret reality based on available evidence. If you
| wait for someone to throw off their mask and reveal
| themselves a cackling villain, you will find yourself an
| easy mark.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| That Forbes article is just a Forbes journalist guessing
| what DOGE might do, based on things they've mentioned in
| passing.
|
| _Of course_ that doesn 't add up to 2 trillion in cuts!
|
| The Reich article is mostly him making up evil things
| DOGE might do, and then criticizing them for these
| imagined plans.
|
| Once DOGE has real plans and proposals I'll be happy to
| mock them if they don't make sense. I agree their goals
| sound _very_ difficult, but I 've learned that there are
| always smarter people than me out there. Maybe you can at
| least agree with that last part :)
| sangnoir wrote:
| Can you come up with "non-evil" ways to cut 2 trillion,
| while you wait?
| BurningFrog wrote:
| No, but let me expand on that.
|
| The current deficit is 1.69 trillion (1), so something of
| that magnitude will _have_ to happen, one way or another.
|
| The "DOGE manifesto"(2) lays out the plans/goals in some
| detail. Note that it's not mainly budget cuts, and not
| intended to be complete in year 1.
|
| (1): https://usafacts.org/state-of-the-union/budget/ (2):
| https://archive.ph/rAD4B
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| Those steering the ship have track records. I don't see
| anything prejudicial about evaluating the leadership of a
| government group w.r.t. their previous merits and
| shortcomings.
| charlieyu1 wrote:
| DOGE is nothing more than a glorified advisory role. They
| can talk whatever they want, they have no real power.
| bccdee wrote:
| Elon Musk has done plenty worth judging already. Am I
| supposed to give every single venture of his the benefit of
| the doubt?
| bko wrote:
| Wouldn't this be the equivalent of telling someone "before you
| try and build a business, try to take some business courses and
| learn how business works. Perhaps even an MBA".
| akamaka wrote:
| Not quite, because a successful business could be as simple
| as a lemonade stand. Government finance, on the other hand,
| is an exceptionally delicate game of safely maximizing
| spending to stimulate economic growth (and therefore future
| tax revenue).
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| The vast majority of government spending is not about
| growth and isn't an investment. It is about placating
| voters and interests groups.
|
| Arguably positive budget categories like Education,
| research, and infrastructure make up a miniscule part of
| the overall pie.
| pnut wrote:
| Interestingly, China, who does capitalism better than the
| west, is not very concerned about short term voter
| happiness or placating special interest groups. So it's
| not a given that government spending must be constrained
| by historical assumptions, or that that model is even
| optimal.
|
| I'd say many of the moves towards autocracy in the west
| are pointing in that direction, for better or worse.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| That's obviously a provocative claim. I wouldn't say that
| they "do capitalism better", but I would say that they
| have better industrial policy.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_policy
| kortilla wrote:
| Yet nobody with an economics degree is in control of
| government spending. Funny that
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what
| they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." - H.L.
| Mencken
|
| Wake me when a majority of actual US voters would pick
| someone based on their educational qualifications for the
| job.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| We do that all the time.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Not in any election that I've seen in the last 35 years.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| I don't think that's true, frankly. I guess maybe if you
| don't vote in local elections and also don't pay
| attention to congressional elections.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| I vote in both.
|
| My state rep lives (more or less) across the street from
| me. He wins because he gets things done and is generally
| a nice and honest person. His educational background as a
| lawyer doesn't seem to enter into the reasons why any of
| us vote for him.
|
| My congressional rep and our two senators - I couldn't
| even begin to tell you their educational backgrounds. I
| can tell you about their policy positions (and in one
| case, their abject failure to actually do anything
| related to them), and a little bit about their personal
| history.
| dmonitor wrote:
| I live in alabama. One of our state's senators only
| previous job was as a football coach. It's bleak out
| here.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| That's actually just categorically wrong and frankly easy
| to find out. First of all the one that jumps to mind is
| AOC, but also just in general apparently econ is the
| third most popular study for congress members, behind
| politics and law.
| bccdee wrote:
| ...do you actually think there are no economists working
| on the US government's federal budget? Is that a serious
| belief of yours?
| Qwertious wrote:
| Most of the business is in the not-numbers stuff. If DOGE is
| specifically trying to fix the numbers, then it's far more
| important that they specifically are experts in numbers.
| Palomides wrote:
| don't worry, he's starting with physics and will invent
| economics from first principles on his own because he's a
| genius
| bogwog wrote:
| You gotta admit, building a desktop recording app is only a
| few short hops away from building our civilization.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Crazy idea: work for DOGE but secretly just do whatever the
| most educated (and compassionate) people on the topic say
| to do. Don't let Elon know you're poisoning his well with
| good ideas.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| I have serious doubts that this guy would identify anyone
| I consider "the most educated or compassionate" for any
| topic, though.
| ETH_start wrote:
| A lot of people consider Elon to be highly compassionate
| (in the balanced sense of taking into consideration
| second-order effects) and educated (in the non-
| credentialled sense of being informed).
|
| So comments like your are little more than flamebait.
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| >A lot of people consider Elon to be highly compassionate
| (in the balanced sense of taking into consideration
| second-order effects)
|
| I suppose if you're into redefining the common meaning of
| the word, anyone could be considered highly
| compassionate.
| lowmagnet wrote:
| when this went from calling coworkers "NPCs" to "working" for
| DOGE, to "studying physics" and I'm just going to leave this
| here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmJI6qIqURA
| Pxtl wrote:
| Came here to post this and am happy to see that's already
| been done.
| remh wrote:
| To be honest, this video was quite cringe, 50min of
| repeating the same thing over and over, repeating her
| opinion, saying ridiculous unsubstantiated things such
| as: "musk bought twitter because he was annoyed people
| were saying he was not a physicist ". Let's do better and
| post better content.
| ydnaclementine wrote:
| she's not wrong though. it's exactly like one the
| comments says: "It's the intellectual equivalent of the
| wannabe tough guy staple: "I almost joined the
| military.""
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| She's a physicist, sharing her perspective on how weird
| it feels that several billionaires seem intent on posing
| as physicists
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| Shouldn't he start with math for the most valuable results?
| https://xkcd.com/435/
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| Those people are so exhausting. I work with one.
| postsantum wrote:
| No, he is about to invest in longevity research, like all
| other cool non-NPC billionaires do
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Is this about the impossibility of a government defaulting on
| its debt if that debt is payable in currency that same
| government can print? Or is it some stimulus thing?
| VectorLock wrote:
| There is no upper bound on how much debt the US gov can carry
| as long as they're paying their interest and people still
| have trust that they will. Its the TRUST part that is at most
| risk right now.
| lovecg wrote:
| Yeah but that's almost a tautology. This has been true for
| every government that ended up in hyperinflation (Germany
| in the 20s, Russia in the 90s, etc. etc.).
| marcusverus wrote:
| > There is no upper bound on how much debt the US gov can
| carry as long as they're paying their interest...
|
| Get it? There is no limit... so long as we don't go past
| the limit!
|
| We already spend ~20% of federal revenue on debt service.
| How high would that percentage need to get before you would
| consider it a problem?
| bennofs wrote:
| The limit could depend on a lot of other things. In
| theory, it's possible that you are paying 100% of revenue
| on debt service yet still the best option is to take on
| more debt. This is if you believe that investing the
| money raised via additional debt provides returns that
| outweigh the increase in debt service costs. So in that
| situation, additional debt can even lower the debt
| service / income ratio.
|
| So this is meant to illustrate that the limit on debt is
| more a function of the concrete circumstances. In this
| line of argumentation, debt is not limited by a
| mathematical formula that just takes GDP and similar
| statistics as input.
| marcusverus wrote:
| Your analysis leaves out one teeny tiny little thing--the
| ~6 Trillion dollar federal budget!
|
| If you're paying 100% of revenue on debt service, taking
| on more debt isn't optional. All other federal outlays
| must either cease or be funded by new debt. Given current
| levels of federal spending, that would mean increasing
| the national debt by ~20% of GDP, _per year_.
|
| More debt --> higher debt service costs --> even more
| debt --> even higher debt service costs --> et cetera
| tayo42 wrote:
| this part was disturbing. this guy cant run his own life but
| wants to dictate how others will live and get involved in
| government. the US is going to have to deal with real
| consequences from idiots like this.
|
| I think running successful companies and making lots of money
| like this is just random luck sometimes. how did a person with
| no ability to introspect, surrounds him self with people that
| like and cant critically think manage to make so much money.
| louwrentius wrote:
| It either favors or breeds sociopaths
| whateveracct wrote:
| most of the startup CEOs I've met / worked for are actually
| comically inept as people lol. often their business success
| is clearly more luck than they want to admit, and they love
| to give lectures/post tweets [1] about things they know
| nothing about (e.g. ever notice how every CEO is also an
| enthusiastic authority on the future of population growth and
| space travel and the like? they're all Elon wannabes
| nowadays)
|
| [1] often ghostwritten
| paulpauper wrote:
| You would not learn this in an economics course. Source:
| someone who has taken economics courses. Maybe a civics course.
| 4fterd4rk wrote:
| Didn't make it to grad school?
| paulpauper wrote:
| damn bruh...
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| You don't have to have a PhD in macroeconomics to have useful
| policy insights.
|
| For example, I wish someone could convince my city to stop
| planting a specific high maintenance tree on my street that
| constantly clog sewers and crushes cars.
|
| Policy is far from perfect and there is plenty of room for
| improvement.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Assuming that you are correct, you have observed (a) one or
| more problems (b) a proximal cause of the problem(s) (c) a
| potential solution. Congratulations!
|
| None of that can be said for making a facile observation
| about US government spending.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| I can think of dozens of similar examples from my local
| government where entrenched local incentives or disinterest
| lead to completely wasteful outcomes. All of my friends in
| government have stories of egregious waste, 8-9 digit
| programs where not even the people working on them think
| they are effective.
|
| I think the salient observation is that there are abundant
| opportunities for improvement and cost saving if there is a
| stakeholder that actually cares about cost savings.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| You've already started from a couple of assumptions that
| I don't believe are true.
|
| > there are abundant opportunities for improvement and
| cost saving if there is a stakeholder that actually cares
| about cost savings.
|
| This fails to explain why private corporations (which
| presumably have from one to millions of stakeholders that
| care about cost saving) would waste millions of dollars.
| The idea that "for profit" organizations have some
| builtin magic trick that means that they improve and save
| money in ways that other sorts of organizations cannot is
| just demonstrably untrue.
|
| What is true, of course, is that no matter what the type
| of organization, if there are people who care about and
| are empowered to meaningfully tackle waste and
| inefficiency, then things can improve. And this happens,
| both in government and non-governmental organizations.
| You don't hear about it much, for broadly the same reason
| you don't hear about for-profit organizations wasting
| money: it just isn't news.
|
| The second assumption that I think you're making is that
| "wasteful outcomes" are by definition a bad thing. The
| problem is that government often is tasked with tackling
| problems where wasteful outcomes are a more or less
| builtin part of the way things get done, and we accept
| that (sometimes) because the _full cost_ (not just
| financial cost) of trying to reduce waste is higher than
| the waste itself. A typical example: yes, there 's no
| doubt that some government benefits go to people who are
| not eligible for them. However, the task of identifying
| all those people has many costs, both direct and
| indirect. The whole system becomes massively more
| invasive of everyone's lives when one of its prime
| directives is "make sure that not one cent goes to some
| not entitled to it". So most societies accept that there
| will be a level of waste, which is made up for by the
| benefits of treating things as if they are closer to a
| universal benefit.
|
| There are plenty of other examples of this in different
| domains where the government operates.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| >This fails to explain why private corporations (which
| presumably have from one to millions of stakeholders that
| care about cost saving) would waste millions of dollars.
|
| Of course it fails to explain something was wasnt talking
| about. I wasn't offering an explanation of private
| corporation waste. were you under that impression I dont
| think it exists?
|
| I have a 50 million dollar project right now for a
| private corporation that I think is a waste, despite
| being the being the one to create and lead it. I'm doing
| it for short sighted reasons. My boss thinks it will make
| him look good, I expect a promotion out of it, and we
| will both be gone when it is cancelled with absolutely
| nothing to show for it.
|
| This also happens in government. As a taxpayer, I dont
| want to pay it. I love the idea of someone looking out
| for waste and even counter productive spending.
|
| >The second assumption that I think you're making is that
| "wasteful outcomes" are by definition a bad thing...
|
| Please don't strawman me and put words in my mouth. are
| you arguing against points I didn't make.
|
| My point is that true waste, however you want to define
| it, exists, and can be improved. Are you claiming there
| is no room for improvement?
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > I wasn't offering an explanation of private corporation
| waste. were you under that impression I dont think it
| exists?
|
| Earlier you had said:
|
| > .... if there is a stakeholder that actually cares
| about cost savings.
|
| which tends to be short-hand these days for "in the
| context of a for-profit company where people actually
| care about this stuff". I accept that you may not have
| meant it that way.
|
| > Are you claiming there is no room for improvement?
|
| Certainly not. But starting with the claim that a
| gigantic percentage of US federal government spending is
| wasted (as the whole DOGE thing starts with) is almost
| certainly not the way to find actual improvements.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| >which tends to be short-hand these days for "in the
| context of a for-profit company where people actually
| care about this stuff". I accept that you may not have
| meant it that way.
|
| Are you think of _shareholders_ instead of stakeholders?
| Either way, that was not my intention. In terms
| government, there are lots of ways to introduce new
| stakeholders with different incentives. These can be
| inter-agency review, or as simple as a government
| employee who 's job it is to save money, and gets
| promoted based on that.
|
| >Certainly not. But starting with the claim that a
| gigantic percentage of US federal government spending is
| wasted (as the whole DOGE thing starts with) is almost
| certainly not the way to find actual improvements.
|
| Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.
|
| Not everything in a comment in a thread on HN is about
| the comment that immediately preceded it. This particular
| subthread has featured the so-called DOGE quite
| significantly, and that is how we've ended up talking
| about efficiency, waste, improvements. DOGE is the
| embodiment of the claim I'm describing, and that's not
| directly related to anything you've said.
| charlieyu1 wrote:
| On the other hand, you need empathy and common sense. And a
| good understanding of humanity.
|
| Which I doubt many politicians have it.
| kortilla wrote:
| This is a facile dunk. Economics literature is filled with
| examples of debt destroying countries' economies either through
| hyper inflation or default. Since the US controls its currency,
| it is very likely to take the inflation route, but if you get
| enough hawks they might choose to default.
| rtpg wrote:
| But perhaps people supposedly becoming in charge of material
| results should in fact at least have a sketch of an actual
| nuanced understanding of things.
|
| People who watched Europe through the Great Recession and
| walk away thinking "I guess austerity works" are not people
| seriously consuming information, they are ideologues.
| roenxi wrote:
| The US is transitioning from being a dominant superpower to
| being one in a herd. Saying that the current approach is
| works is also difficult position to sustain. They probably
| should try something different.
|
| The basic position is that a government should raise enough
| taxes to cover its expenses. You can call that ideological
| and suggest there are superior options if you want to.
| Maybe there are, a little debt can be a good thing. But to
| suggest it won't work is a bit out there. It works. It is
| one of those simple strategies that is too boring to fail.
|
| Also, if the strategy switches from spending more than you
| earn to less, obviously there will be a period where people
| are worse off. It is the same with paying back any
| obligation. Overspending foolishly obviously increases
| living standards while it is happening - the problem is the
| part where people no longer fund the debtor and said debtor
| didn't invest in productive capital. You need an argument
| that accounts for that to claim austerity fails. It is
| expected to do worse than the status quo for a while.
| Saving money isn't much fun on Day 1 either, it can take a
| decade to pay off.
| akamaka wrote:
| A good economics education would let someone be specific
| about what they think the problem is. What year will the US
| default on its debt? How much money needs to be cut from the
| budget to avoid that? To what extent will those cuts slow
| down the economy and be self-defeating?
|
| If he arms himself with the right mathematical tools, he
| might just discover that the default he's expecting is
| actually not imminent.
| charrondev wrote:
| To me the elephant in the room is the cost of servicing the
| debt.
|
| Even if the US has a bunch of runway before shit actually
| hits the fan, 2024 saw over a trillion dollars servicing
| the debt. That could be funding a lot of government
| programs instead.
| akamaka wrote:
| Let's look at the numbers:
|
| https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S
|
| Seems not ideal, but also not terrible. We have much less
| of a hole to dig our way out of than we did in the 1990s.
| Certainly doesn't look like a crisis. The recent jump
| seems entirely caused by the response to the Covid crisis
| and not really a structural problem.
| yep31 wrote:
| Unlike now, in the 90s the US had no competitors with
| equally strong industrial capacity.
| rat87 wrote:
| This is insane. Most countries are in debt and there's
| nothing wrong with that unless it becomes too high. Choosing
| to default is a choice with no benifits that would crash the
| world economy for no reason and permanently hobble the
| country
| Aeolun wrote:
| A default would be a silly thing on a national scale. You'd
| essentially reset your debt and piss off a lot of foreign
| powers, but the economy would continue working as before,
| since you'd immediately print a whole bunch of new
| (virtual) money. Chances are a great deal of countries will
| just go along with it to not grind their own economies into
| pieces when they suddenly can't buy/sell from/to the US any
| more.
|
| This is assuming you never get to the stage of
| hyperinflation, but you can probably just print a whole
| bunch of new physical currency as well.
| 4fterd4rk wrote:
| I have a few degrees in economics. You have absolutely
| zero idea what you're talking about if you think a US
| default would have the economy "continue working as
| before". A US default would make the 08 financial crisis
| look like a lemonade stand going out of business. This
| way of thinking is so dangerous because you people don't
| know what you don't know. Musk and the tech bros are
| playing Russian roulette with all of our livelihoods.
| victorbjorklund wrote:
| You dont think a single american or american company/bank
| holds any gov bonds?
| goalieca wrote:
| I think you missed the point of DOGE. This isn't a problem
| about navigating and optimizing a complex bureaucracy, it's to
| call out that massive bureaucracy exactly where it comes at a
| high cost and little, perhaps even negative, value. This is a
| managerial problem and a political problem at its core. We
| should all be rooting for them to succeed and table their
| findings, in plain speak for all the public to see. Then it
| will be up to the elected officials to act on it.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| That is transparently not the point of it at all. Musk in
| particular is a proven self-interested liar and there's no
| reason to believe his stated intentions here. It's another
| right wing campaign to dismantle the parts of the state that
| benefit anyone other than investors.
| rgmerk wrote:
| DOGE is BS.
|
| Civilian bureaucrats - in fact pretty much all discretionary
| spending - are line noise in the federal budget.
|
| By far the largest components of spending are Medicare,
| Medicaid, Social Security, and defence.
|
| Cutting social security means that old people get less money
| in their retirement, no ifs, ands or buts. Good luck with
| that one.
|
| By American standards, Medicaid and Medicare are pretty
| efficient. So any cuts are going to mean that either doctors
| get paid less or fewer health services are provided. Yes,
| politically, Republicans can get away with cutting Medicaid,
| but it's the much smaller piece of the pie compared to
| Medicare. Good luck with either one of the options above with
| Medicare.
|
| As for defence, procurement is a giant money tree for defence
| contractors, but a large part of the reason why it remains a
| giant money tree for contractors is that they build plants in
| every single congressional district there is, so trying to
| apply some sanity to the defence procurement process is
| politically untenable. Beyond that, are you going to be the
| one to tell the Marines they don't need their own aircraft
| carriers?
|
| Of course, tanking the American economy by removing a
| significant chunk of its labor force (undocumented
| immigrants) and increasing costs (by putting tariffs on
| things) is just going to make the problem harder by crunching
| revenue.
|
| The right of politics has forever claimed that they can
| painlessly cut taxes, and it's always nonsense.
| lovecg wrote:
| > Cutting social security means that old people get less
| money in their retirement, no ifs, ands or buts. Good luck
| with that one.
|
| But surely that's the only way out? Figure out some sane
| taper scheme by age or something. Social security was
| created when the old people population was a tiny fraction
| of what it is now, no way it would have ever passed it with
| today's numbers. We'll have to rip off the bandaid or face
| the consequences.
| akamaka wrote:
| Taking money from one group of people and giving it to
| another isn't "government waste", though. It's
| essentially zero-sum (unless you get way down into the
| details of the economic effects of how that money gets
| spent or saved.)
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| If you had told people when SS was passed that "granny
| doesn't die of hunger" is "zero sum", you might have
| needed martial arts skills to avoid the pitchforks coming
| your way.
|
| And that's not "way down into the details of the economic
| effects" - it's the raison d'etre of SS.
| akamaka wrote:
| I'm replying to the parent commenter and giving him the
| benefit of the doubt, assuming that he's talking only
| about social security payments which are beyond the
| essential, and which could "safely" be cut back. I
| recommend to you to also interpret comments generously
| before replying.
| chillingeffect wrote:
| >Cutting social security means that old people get less
| money in their retirement, no ifs, ands or buts. Good luck
| with that one.
|
| Some ppl collecting SSI have other income over $400k. They
| won't miss $30k of SSI. The dem's plan was to tax that
| overage - not even remove it altogether - to maintain SSI,
| but "they're eating the dogs and cats" won and now the
| unelected guy who made his fortune on government contracts
| is in charge of choosing who to cut off from that
| government money supply.
| khazhoux wrote:
| > DOGE is BS. Civilian bureaucrats - in fact pretty much
| all discretionary spending - are line noise in the federal
| budget.
|
| It took me years to understand that this line of reasoning
| is why Trump won (twice). I noticed in my own job, that
| whenever someone would propose an moderate but still-
| obvious improvement, someone else would smack them down
| saying "that's not the highest priority!" In the end,
| nothing ever gets fixed.
|
| I think people see Trump as that guy who steamrolls the
| naysayers and gets shit done.
|
| Now, I disagree that Trump really gets any useful thing
| done, but I definitely recognize that constant naysaying
| against any improvement is a real actual problem.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| The party Trump ran as a candidate for has spent at least
| 40 and perhaps 70 years insisting the government is your
| enemny and government cannot get things done.
|
| The fact that is rather difficult to make changes to the
| government so that it runs more efficiently and gets
| better stuff done might - _just might_ - be related to
| the fact that one of the two major political parties in
| the USA is absolutely bound to the "fact" that this is
| not possible.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| It's like when an entire slate of candidates running on
| "elect me for a pure and uninformed outsider take!" get
| elected to the city council and suddenly you spend a year
| with council meetings turning into 101 lessons from the
| city staff on what the fuck the council is responsible
| for.
| the_gastropod wrote:
| I disagree with this. Here are a few tidy Republican
| stances:
|
| - Gun violence? Eh. Nothing we can do there. Best to just
| get used to it. Thoughts and prayers.
|
| - Climate change? Nothing to see there. Drill baby,
| drill!
|
| - Covid? Best to just ignore it, let it run rampant, let
| the weak die. No biggie.
|
| - Universal healthcare? It'd totally suck. Wait times.
| Higher taxes. Pay no attention to the nearly 100 other
| countries successfully pulling this off.
|
| The Republican Party is the party of maintaining the
| status-quo, insisting solved problems are unsolvable.
| Since Ronald Reagan, the Republican Party's central
| thesis is: Government is inept. Let's neuter it as much
| as possible. Many of us see DOGE just as a cringely-named
| continuation of this mission.
| lenkite wrote:
| > By far the largest components of spending are Medicare,
| Medicaid, Social Security, and defence.
|
| Sure..and all hidden waste projects can be fit into those 3
| categories. Things like federal funding on hotels for
| illegal immigrants, including many millions on _unused_
| hotel rooms. ~$400 per person per night for illegal aliens.
| ~$80+ million USD in a few months.
|
| > DOGE is BS.
|
| Basically DOGE is only BS if you think fraud and waste are
| not BS. Why don't you actually _look_ at the large number
| of waste projects on https://x.com/DOGE before saying it is
| BS ?
| rgmerk wrote:
| US federal budget expenditures in 2023 were a little over
| six trillion dollars.
|
| Eighty million dollars isn't even sufficient to count as
| a rounding error in that context.
| lenkite wrote:
| Good lord - No its not a _rounding_ error. How did you
| even get that ? Here is the cost of illegal immigration
| to taxpayers:
|
| https://budget.house.gov/download/the-cost-of-illegal-
| immigr...
|
| It is ~42 billion for welfame, $70 billion USD for
| schooling, $7.5 billion for the uninsured, etc, totaling
| to around ~150 billion. This is also around the figure
| confirmed by DOGE.
|
| It would be nice if you can refute the data on facts.
| rgmerk wrote:
| It's not an official figure. It's a figure calculated by
| an anti-immigration "think tank".
|
| And even taking their numbers as gospel, it's 1.1% of the
| federal budget - and it's not like you can claw back that
| 1.1% either, because the enforcement mechanisms required
| to expel and keep illegal immigrants out of the USA would
| cost very substantial amounts.
| etc-hosts wrote:
| That study is from CIS. CIS' founder was
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tanton
|
| then you should look up "Jared Taylor". Then look up
| "American Renaissance"
| svara wrote:
| A lot of those examples are just meaningless without
| context and some are clearly framed in a way to make them
| sound ridiculous.
|
| NIH funding on addiction research seems pretty relevant
| given what's going on in the US?
|
| But the way they write it it's "injecting dogs with
| cocaine" or "giving cocaine to lonely mice". Very funny I
| guess?
| refurb wrote:
| > DOGE is BS.
|
| Are you suggesting there is _no possible way to make the
| government more efficient_ in a way that reduces costs by
| some significant amount?
|
| That seems like an extreme statement.
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| That is a straw man, and an ugly one at that.
|
| Every system has inefficiencies, including the
| government.
|
| The fallacy is to assume that businesses inherently have
| less inefficiencies than government and/or that a
| government's cost/benefit equation improves if it's run
| as a business. Often, their functions overlap and this
| can be the case. Automated traffic monitoring is cheaper
| than having people count cars. But beware privatization
| that promises efficiency and lower costs--the result is
| almost always worse services, maintainable debt and in
| time a government bailout.
|
| Often, their functions do not overlap. The purpose of
| social security is not to tighten spending as much as
| possible, it is to improve quality of life as much as
| possible.
| refurb wrote:
| Funny you'd accuse me of a straw man then go on about
| claims I never made.
|
| Nothing has changed yet. No plans have been rolled out.
|
| We could wait and see what the plan is before claiming
| it's a failure already?
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| Let me quote you: "Are you suggesting there is no
| possible way to make the government more efficient in a
| way that reduces costs by some significant amount?"
|
| The poster said no such thing.
| refurb wrote:
| The poster said "DOGE is BS". DOGE is looking to make the
| government more efficient, so the poster said "making the
| government more efficient is BS".
|
| Thus my question seems like a pretty good rephrasing.
| psb217 wrote:
| If someone says: "I'm not a big fan of football", they're
| not necessarily saying: "We should kill all football
| players."
|
| If someone says: "I think DOGE is BS", they're not
| saying: "I think any and all efforts to improve goverment
| efficiency are BS."
|
| Sometimes, the thing a person says is the thing they mean
| to say. You're clearly creating a strawman.
| dead_gunslinger wrote:
| You are comparing apples to oranges. A company can be as
| inefficient as it wants, it's their problem. If they
| manage to be profitable while being inefficient good for
| them. I don't care, they don't force me to give them MY
| money. The government on the other hand does, with the
| threat of imprisonment. They extract wealth from me to
| provide services that I didn't ask them to provide, which
| are deteriorating year after year even though their
| budget constantly keeps increasing dramatically without
| the population increasing in the same rate.
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| Except in many, if not most, cases a company's
| inefficiencies IS your problem. The perfectly informed
| rational consumer doesn't exist. We're forced to buy
| what's on the shelves that we can afford, and the water
| in the pipes and power on the grid. When the businesses
| collude and price fix and lower the quality of your goods
| you DO suffer and your only recourse is regulation.
|
| And get out of here with that libertarian "services I
| don't use" nonsense.
| rgmerk wrote:
| There are no politically viable ways to make the US
| government significantly more efficient in a way that
| would leave government services unaffected.
|
| The one big opportunity to do that is defence and it is
| the one that Republicans, particularly, treat as a sacred
| cow.
|
| Social Security is already extremely efficient in that
| the cost of moving money around is minimal.
|
| Medicare and Medicaid are also more efficient than the
| private sector.
|
| Is government perfect? Hell no. But in the really big
| picture the big and rising areas of civilian expenditure
| are not where the inefficiencies lie.
| refurb wrote:
| > in a way that would leave government services
| unaffected
|
| I'm not sure what "unaffected" means. Do you mean from
| the end user perspective? Or government employee
| perspective?
|
| I think people underestimate the overhead associated with
| many government services. Even thing like social security
| disability have 30-40% of the money not going to the
| recipient, it's going to the administration.
|
| If you were able to improve social security
| administration efficiency (benefit validation, denial
| appeal, check mailing costs) by just 10%, you just
| reduced social the federal budget by a few percentage
| points. That's huge.
|
| My own experience with government services is that
| significant efficiencies could be squeezed out and keep
| the end user service the same (or better?).
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| Where are you getting your numbers? Social security is
| well known as one of the most efficient government
| agencies.
|
| https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/admin.html
|
| A 10% increase in administration efficiency would shave
| of $700 million.
| refurb wrote:
| Social security disability has much higher admin cost
| percentage.
|
| But regardless, a 10% improvement in efficiency, in one
| government program, potentially saves almost $1B.
|
| That seems quite striking to me when you think about all
| the US government programs.
| kube-system wrote:
| There absolutely are, but not all of them are good ideas
| for other reasons. One of the big things that I think
| many "run government like a business"-types fail to
| consider, is that fairness, equitability, checks-and-
| balances, democratic process, quality of life, etc are
| often inherently inefficient.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Cutting funding to the IRS will increase waste; nobody
| outside of DOGE seems to think that spending more on
| enforcement will fail to pay for itself by finding more tax
| fraud. It's not a large leap to infer that at least some of
| those behind DOGE are doing this to enrich themselves.
| paxys wrote:
| I don't fault this guy for wanting to join DOGE and make a
| difference. The fact that he was able to make a few phone calls
| and actually get hired into an influential position despite
| having zero background in government, civics, economics,
| finance etc. should, however, tell you everything you need to
| know about the department and its brain trust.
|
| I wonder what will happen to all these Signal conversations
| when the inevitable scandals/lawsuits/inquiries happen. Surely
| the public will be able to scrutinize them right?
| khazhoux wrote:
| > The fact that he was able to make a few phone calls and
| actually get hired into an influential position despite
| having zero background in government, civics, economics,
| finance etc. should, however, tell you everything you need to
| know about the department and its brain trust
|
| I have no interest in defending Elon, but this assessment is
| unfair. Recall how during the Obama transition, a bunch of
| Silicon Valley'ers got hired in to help modernize government
| tech (and doubly so after the disastrous obamacare website
| rollout). Very few of those people had experience in govt,
| civics, etc.
| gkoberger wrote:
| There's a difference between "building tech for the
| government" and whatever governmental cosplaying DOGE is
| doing.
| paxys wrote:
| Slight difference between asking techies to modernize
| government tech and asking them to retool the entire
| federal government.
| 616c wrote:
| You can listen to their own description of their strategy
| and tactics. It was every different from the contemporary
| counterpoint. They reformed one system one subsystem at a
| time by working with the current owners and tech staff and
| teaching them their approach.
|
| https://changelog.com/gotime/154
|
| I knew contractors in their wake working at companies that
| grew out of their work in CMS, such as Ad Hoc (a name of
| the original team to not be called WHITE HOUSE HOT SHOTS or
| DOGE or something similarly jarring to thereby take agency
| away from the people who had to you know do the work once
| they knew they'd roll off) and Nava as they expanded beyond
| that one system 5 years later.
|
| Let's see how the braggadocios we'll solve all the problems
| at once flavor of the moment goes, then judge the
| healthcare.gov teams.
| bbddg wrote:
| Yeah and it was probably equally craven and opportunistic
| to bring them in as well.
| bccdee wrote:
| Yeah I find that anecdote incredibly revealing as to the way
| wealthy people move through political spaces. No offence to
| the author of the blog post, but he was the CTO of a company
| that sold video conferencing software--what _on Earth_ would
| he know about public governance? Pick a random student with a
| BA in public policy & administration off the graduating
| class of 2024's honour roll, and I bet they'd do a better job
| at doing whatever "DOGE" is supposed to do than this guy
| would.
| andreilys wrote:
| We've tried that for decades, and look where it's gotten
| us.
|
| Policy wonks and lawyers have run America into the ground
| with reckless spending and forever wars.
|
| I would venture that introducing fresh ideas and
| technologists with first principles thinking will yield
| better results.
| spacephysics wrote:
| Fully agree. The academia gatekeeping in certain fields
| hasn't served us well over the last decade or so.
|
| Fresh ideas from individuals with experience from all
| walks of life should be entertained. Doesn't mean they'll
| be followed.
|
| Furthermore, DOGE has no actual power administratively,
| really all they can do is advise. Congress would need to
| grant them power first. Saagar Enjeti gas a good take on
| this, he's pretty well versed in Washington-Speak
| nurple wrote:
| I enjoyed his recent conversation with Lex, but I lost
| quite a bit of respect for his opinion on politics when
| he called the Cambridge Analytica scandal nonsense.
| etc-hosts wrote:
| The DOGE guys + Executive branch will try to get the
| Supreme Court to rule that the phrase "take care" in the
| Constitution means that the President has the power to
| fire any government employee at any time.
|
| https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S3-3
| -1/...
| Pxtl wrote:
| > forever wars
|
| And yet they're allying with Trump and his Republicans?
| Republicans are responsible for the most recent US
| "forever wars", and Trump has threatened to invade
| various countries Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, publicly
| proposed annexing Mexico, Canada, Panama, and Greenland,
| has fired missiles into numerous countries like Syria,
| assassinated an Iranian general, etc.
|
| And Trump loudly opposes various orgs that are
| responsible for holding aggressive powers at bay, like
| how NATO represents a check on Russia's apparent violent
| expansionism.
|
| Trump's approach to geopolitics seems just as violent as
| his predecessors but more mercurial and erratic.
| sangnoir wrote:
| America has tried giving robber-barrons free reign
| before. How did that turn out?
| bccdee wrote:
| Several things:
|
| For one, who said anything about "first principles
| thinking"? Elon Musk has a pronounced ideological bias.
| Anyway, first principles thinking is practically useless
| when it comes to highly complex systems, because such
| systems do not behave in self-evident ways. Empirical
| knowledge is the only thing that gets you anywhere.
|
| Moreover, "DOGE" is not a break from the status quo in
| any way. Corporate interests have informed governance
| since long before either of us were born. That, rather
| than "policy wonks," is the rot at the heart of the
| government. Forever wars happen because they are
| extremely profitable for weapons manufacturers, not
| because warfare is a wonkish policy.
|
| The only novelty "DOGE" brings to the table is the
| aesthetics of an SF tech startup, which won't help the
| government any more than it helped WeWork. It'll actually
| do less: WeWork was taken seriously, at least for a
| while. "DOGE" is impossible to take seriously.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| So weird. You cut the taxes of the most wealthy in this
| country, slash the corporate tax rate and our debt
| mounts. What is going on?
| pinkmuffinere wrote:
| You don't have to be convinced, but to present an argument
| -- He knows how to lead a team with disparate skills and
| motivations towards a complex, poorly defined end-goal.
| That might sound like corporate B.S., but I truly believe
| that's a useful skill that not everyone has. Of course I
| expect he is relatively weak in his understanding of law,
| the dynamics of different government organizations, etc,
| but I expect (hope?) they're hiring others to fill in these
| gaps.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Championship-winning 12th grade soccer captains probably
| have decent leadership skills, but that doesn't mean they
| can automatically succeed as M&A advisors at a
| multinational. We don't need a blitz version of the Peter
| principle where people skip n-levels at a time.
| therouwboat wrote:
| Lets hope that DOGE is not just bunch of rich assholes
| who all think they are really smart.
| Voultapher wrote:
| So far all the arrows I've seen point in one direction
| ...
| gregw2 wrote:
| Whiz Kids 2.0 ?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiz_Kids_(Department_of_De
| fen...
|
| That didn't work out too well but I guess I just see the
| cons in hindsight, not the pros.
| gregw2 wrote:
| For those not familiar with the 1960s "Whiz Kids"
| attempts of "smart people" to use data and statistics to
| "fix" business and then government/war, there is a nice
| brief overview of pros/cons/lessons at:
| https://www.amnesta.net/other/whizKids/
| Barracoon wrote:
| Leading tech for a 250 person startup is surely different
| than wrangling the vast bureaucracy of the US Government,
| especially when the author says they didn't want to join
| Atlassian because they would have to deal with "politics"
| and "NPC coworkers". TBF DOGE as a non-governmental
| entity is just going to make bullshit recommendations to
| Trump and not have to actually deal with the consequences
| of things they recommend, so maybe it would have been
| perfect for this guy.
| stepupmakeup wrote:
| Maybe we'll get some funny "Elon Musk: please set the self
| destruction timer to 30 seconds" in court documents just like
| Google.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Related :
|
| _Scottish Government bans use of WhatsApp for official
| business_ (2024)
|
| https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-
| government-b...
|
| > The decision follows a fierce backlash over the mass
| deletion of messages by ministers and officials during the
| Covid pandemic.
| purplethinking wrote:
| You mean, what will happen when we get to Episode 5: The Deep
| State Strikes Back?
| thrance wrote:
| He pulled millions from the economy and now wants to work with
| the oligarchs towards having even less redistribution. He is a
| small part of the reason why his country is going to s***.
| wodderam wrote:
| Defaulting on the debt is not going to happen but the
| consequences of avoiding default will not be good.
|
| Of course, DOGE isn't really going to do anything to fix this
| either. Complete theater that the fixes will low and behold
| happen to work in the financial interest of those running DOGE.
|
| The young who don't think the debt matters are almost
| guaranteed at this point to have to deal with US fiscal
| dominance in their lifetime. That is going to be a brutal
| lesson in youthful ignorance and stupidity.
| verall wrote:
| How will it be a brutal lesson in youthful ignorance and
| stupidity when the youth have nearly no political power? We
| have a full-on gerontocracy and the problem is youthful
| naivete?
| torginus wrote:
| I don't fucking understand these people. They built a startup
| of questionable value which can be replicated with open source
| software, which is debatable if it even solves real world
| problem, somehow got a huge payday from freely printed VC
| money, and now they made it their life's calling to fire a
| bunch of people who don't make that money even it they worked
| for 10k years, but their livelihoods depend on getting paid.
|
| Not just him, but the other 'smart people' who he mentions in
| the post who also work at DOGE (for like the 4 weeks he can
| dedicate his brilliance to solving the worlds burning issues,
| sorry world, if it takes longer than that).
| 1832 wrote:
| Not just "smart people." The smartest people on the planet,
| the smartest people he met in his life, maybe ever!
| quinto_quarto wrote:
| relatable.
| pavlov wrote:
| I didn't have DOGE on this bingo card (though Mt Everest
| certainly was).
|
| It now sounds even more like a hobby club for Silicon Valley
| ultra-rich who have no interest to learn anything about how
| government works. Once they finish their beautiful "reinvented
| from first principles" decks of PDFs and Keynotes, they won't get
| a second look from the elected politicians whose support they
| absolutely need to deliver any of this.
|
| Or, as the meme would say, "men will literally pretend to
| singlehandedly save America from decades of deficits rather than
| go to therapy."
| mauvehaus wrote:
| Mount Everest is 2km higher than 6800m. Go walk for 25-40
| minutes, and then imagine going that distance straight up
| instead.
|
| Trying to climb it without any training and getting anywhere
| close to succeeding is probably at best suicidal and at worst
| endangers/kills a rescue team or some portion thereof.
|
| Not a mountaineer, but relatively well read on the subject.
| bluGill wrote:
| There are enough abuses, litter and other bad things you
| would contribute to if you climb it. I've concluded that a
| photo is all I need. I'll try to climb mt fuji which I
| understand is isn't abused - though I would double check that
| if I ever have opportunity (i'd have to live 2500 years for
| that to make it to the top of my todo list)
| moominpapa wrote:
| Come on,this post is a wind up, right?
| gonzo41 wrote:
| This person is focusing too much on themselves. Help other
| people, actually help them, and you'll feel amazing and find real
| driving purpose.
|
| However productive or enlightened you make yourself doesn't
| really matter, you eventually die. Network effects matter, help
| other people.
| thunkingdeep wrote:
| I stopped working over twenty years ago and it was the best thing
| to ever happen to me. I spent thousands of days with my children,
| paid off my house, we drove brand new cars for the first time
| ever.
|
| Over time, I've just found things to do with my time. I try
| project Euler problems and I'm pretty interested in meteorology.
| The rest of the time, I just participate in things my kids are
| interested in or involved in, though it's not as easy as when I
| was young.
|
| Routine is key, and being honestly and wholeheartedly engaged is
| key. You gotta do the time, don't let the time do you.
|
| This worked for me anyways.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Having kids gives your life purpose in a way almost nothing
| else can.
| thunkingdeep wrote:
| You're absolutely right.
|
| If it weren't for my kids and my wife, I would've blown the
| money and ended up in poverty or something.
|
| My heart goes out to people raising young ones in today's
| world. Seems like things have only gotten harder and more
| confusing for young parents compared when my babies were
| young. We didn't even HAVE smartphones when they were small.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| Yeah; I have 2 kids in their 20s and 2 in elementary
| school, and can attest that all the "shiny tech" has made
| it so much more difficult for parents to raise kids. And
| their future is so much more uncertain and _not_ in a good
| way. I look around and don't see much effort into building
| a better world for our children. There's global issues like
| "how will climate change affect my kids when they're in
| their 40s trying to raise kids of their own", but closer to
| home there's more personal questions like "what should I
| encourage my child to learn or study when AI could
| plausibly take over many careers that seemed solid", not to
| mention that unless you are rich (which we're not), the
| cost of college is frightening (you want your kid to be
| able to go to a good college if they can get in, but not be
| saddled with debt on the way out; my elder daughter got a
| full academic ride in engineering but not everyone has
| those capabilities), and just the competition to get in is
| so much greater than it was. No regrets as my youngest are
| wonderful human beings, but so much more anxiety as a
| parent than 20-25 years ago :/
| martinsnow wrote:
| That's the dream man. You're living it.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| As a young(ish) man with retirement level wealth personally I
| don't understand this primarily I suppose because my main
| passions in life are not profitable.
|
| Great, so now I don't have to profitmax every single thing and
| can rely on my investments. That means I can study pottery,
| languages, learn about cars, guns, travel, spend time with my old
| mum, family, start a small business, whatever it is, without care
| for whether it contributes to the bottom line.
|
| It kind of seems to me as if the poster here has some sort of
| savior complex - like they can't just be well off and enjoy it,
| they have to somehow change the world. That's not necessarily a
| bad thing, but at some point why not take time for you and yours?
|
| I do however identify with the "it's not relatable" thing. If you
| live off of investments then suddenly you are, well, seperate,
| from people who can't, in a way that you can try to hide but it
| leaks out, you can't explain away being able to travel wherever
| whenever you want, etc.
| wepple wrote:
| This is how interpreted the post. Listing "throwing parties" as
| one of your hobbies shows they don't really have deep passion
| curiosities like the things you listed can be.
| fragmede wrote:
| Your parties must not be any good. People have entire careers
| just organizing events like weddings and corporate
| conferences. You can or as little or as much effort into
| throwing parties as you can pottery or any of the other
| things listed.
| peterldowns wrote:
| Congratulations on having a level head on your shoulders.
| Sincerely, I hope you have a nice life :)
| naming_the_user wrote:
| Thank you! I try! You too!
| RonaldDump wrote:
| I sit in my mansion alone refreshing HN and 4chan all day.
|
| It's not much but it passes the time. 50 years to go.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| Do you also look at charts? I look at charts. Charts fun
| charts not fun. Line go up down.
| RonaldDump wrote:
| How else would I know what mood to be in?
| nick3443 wrote:
| My soul mates right here.
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Get friends?
| FreePalestine1 wrote:
| Find a spouse
| RonaldDump wrote:
| Sure, why don't I pop down to the spouse shop and pick one
| out from their extensive range?
|
| There are almost no marriageable women around these days.
| Having $ does make getting laid very easy, but I'm not
| interested in that. Unfortunately it doesn't help at all in
| finding one of the good ones (perhaps it makes it even
| harder).
| Trasmatta wrote:
| > marriageable women
|
| What does that even mean?
| BoingBoomTschak wrote:
| If I guess his views correctly and mix them with mine:
| women with an exemplary life hygiene - maintaining a near
| perfect body, no addiction or unhealthy obsession of any
| sort (tobacco, alcohol, drugs, TV, social medias,
| smartphones, travels, pets, etc...), chaste compared to
| nowadays' standard libertinage - intelligent and cultured
| (and I'm not talking about pop culture).
|
| Basically no one, then.
| FreePalestine1 wrote:
| > There are almost no marriageable women around these
| days.
|
| Would be interested to hear your definition of
| marriageable women and why there aren't any in your
| circles.
|
| As an Arab Muslim, my POV is very different.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| You just don't want to signal you're a provider. Weird
| hangup a lot of tech guys have
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Be Gatsby and host extravagant parties to hide your
| loneliness. At least that's what I'd do.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| tbh it sounds much more like he wants to be viewed as a saviour
| than actually improve anything significant to me.
|
| "what I actually wanted was to look like Elon" feels like he's
| getting very close to grasping something fundamental about
| himself in a way that many similar dudes are incapable of
| doing.
| fragmede wrote:
| > you can't explain away being able to travel wherever whenever
| you want
|
| Just lie and say you work for an AI startup that's in stealth
| mode and that they're sending you there for a work retreat to
| bond with your coworkers. Few people in your life care that
| much about your job to dig deeper.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| Sure, you can do that. That's what I mean by being unable to
| relate.
|
| It's not like it's a one off "I took a couple of days off to
| build a table" or "I used my X weeks holiday to go to
| Thailand", all of your hobbies, interests, travel, museum
| visits, etc etc happen all of the time when most people
| around you are doing a 9 to 5.
|
| "How was work today?" It wasn't, I don't work, I haven't
| worked for years, I can tell you about my entrepreneurship or
| my studying or whatever but then again, now you know I don't
| work.
|
| That's at a lower level. If you have 50 million like the
| author then you may well have multiple homes or just live out
| of hotels if you choose to, it's constant.
|
| Are you hiding all of that?
| the_cat_kittles wrote:
| stop lying about being rich. its cowardly and self defeating
| heresie-dabord wrote:
| > the poster here has some sort of savior complex
|
| It seems to be a problem with motivation and meaningfulness,
| not necessarily that he wants to save anyone. Or anything.
| Apreche wrote:
| Give it all away to people in abject poverty and start again.
| You'll honestly be happier.
| throw7 wrote:
| You said it best. Your own words: you're a phony.
| t43562 wrote:
| Self absorbed.
| ks2048 wrote:
| What does it even mean to "work for DOGE" at this point? Is it a
| company? I don't think it's a part of government (yet).
| slumpt_ wrote:
| Plan for the evisceration of public services in the interest of
| privatizing them to enrich a select group of capital owners.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Dickens was right, some people truly need to be visited by the
| ghost of Christmas present.
| ecuaflo wrote:
| I have the opposite problem: I'm dependent on my job's salary but
| know exactly what I want to do instead. Unfortunately the job
| makes my life so drained I can't pursue my true callings.
| intelVISA wrote:
| This is true pain. To think a rounding error could free
| grinders like us to solve Actual Problems like disrupting
| Chrome hegemony, building user-respecting OSes and relighting
| the now nearly dimmed torch dropped so many years ago by
| Mozilla.
|
| Hopefully one day we can..
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Actual problems are things like extreme poverty, access to
| drinking water, deforestation and habitat destruction,
| climate change etc. Not internet browsers. Good grief.
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| I think they were being sarcastic...
| kcsaba2 wrote:
| Thank you for sharing, educative. Will pray for your journey.
| makeitshine wrote:
| As someone who isn't rich, but has taken extensive time off work,
| I love not working. The last 18 month break I took may have been
| the happiest I've ever been. I'll never be rich, because I'm not
| motivated by money, but I've never been bored or rudderless.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| I've done this and it's great, especially for travel, but I've
| notice that each time I do it, employers are more and more
| uncomfortable with the employment gap regardless of skills.
| raghavankl wrote:
| That is a good problem to have
| akomtu wrote:
| "Ambition is the first curse: the great tempter of the man who is
| rising above his fellows. It is the simplest form of looking for
| reward. Men of intelligence and power are led away from their
| higher possibilities by it continually. Yet it is a necessary
| teacher. Its results turn to dust and ashes in the mouth; like
| death and estrangement it shows the man at last that to work for
| self is to work for disappointment."
| verifex wrote:
| I'm living a pretty okay life, I need money for certain things
| and helping my friends and family takes a lot of money. I think
| the guy in this article and some of the people in this thread
| have their perspective warped by the amount of money they have.
| (This has been proven time and time again:
| https://caldaclinic.com/the-psychology-of-wealth-and-how-it-... )
|
| Try making some friends with people who aren't as wealthy as you
| and try to help them out, maybe they need something that is out
| of their reach, maybe their family needs expensive medicine or
| something. Anyways, my TL;DR is make friends, spend your money on
| others and stop hoarding it because it won't make you happy.
| bfeynman wrote:
| shows you just how much luck really is involved versus having
| insatiable grit, determination, skill, etc to be successful.
|
| Guy seems amazed that based on whatever probably incorrect
| information he gets about the government being inefficiently run
| left him aghast.
|
| Dude got super lucky on a bet about remote work that is not even
| panning out for the purchaser.
| SCUSKU wrote:
| Congratulations to the author! They basically "won" and did
| something that most people on HN can only dream of.
|
| My 2 cents: I would devote the remainder of my life to solving
| problems that the current system is unoptimized for. Things that
| seem intractable like the housing crisis, homelessness, climate
| change, food insecurity. Like this guy who is trying to re-green
| a part of the Sonoran Desert after getting a windfall from
| helping the El Salvadoran government switch to Bitcoin [1].
|
| I think ultimately the author is going to have to find a very
| difficult task/goal that will require similar if not greater
| effort compared to starting Loom.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6fl8dap5nk
| ks2048 wrote:
| "Working at DOGE" for 4 weeks reminds be of "Teach for
| America"... maybe it's fairly smart people with decent intentions
| [1] but not what's needed - not people taking a break from
| getting rich to do some charity work - rather what's needed is
| dedicated professionals devoting their careers to teaching /
| governance.
|
| [1] for the record, I don't think that DOGE has good intentions.
| A lot of the tweets are nonsensical and I think just a rebranding
| for typical Republican cuts to health and retirement spending in
| exchange for more tax breaks at the top.
| pianoben wrote:
| If they had good intentions, they wouldn't be conducting all of
| their business on FOIA-proof Signal (or so I like to imagine).
| sangnoir wrote:
| Not just rebranding, but it's going to provides useful
| decision-laundering political cover, similar to what McKinsey
| and other consultants offer management. They were going to do
| it anyway, but the public reason becomes "It's not _our_ idea,
| but DOGE (or the consultants) recommended it. "
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| also we already know what Elon efficiency looks like: firing a
| bunch of people
|
| I'd honestly prefer my tax dollars be spent creating jobs than
| going into the pockets of the billionnaires providing the
| "efficiency" (i.e., large corps offering AI/automation).
| cushychicken wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that's the last point in Naval's infamous tweet
| thread about getting wealthy.
|
| It won't fix you - but it will give you the time and resources to
| figure out something that might.
|
| The author needs to find himself a good counselor and get to work
| on himself.
| Narciss wrote:
| One of the most honest and thought provoking pieces I've read in
| a while.
|
| Thank you so much for sharing. It really makes me think what I'd
| do if I were in your shoes.
|
| For me a big portion would be family, and helping it thrive. And
| putting my time and energy into some of the crazier ideas I have
| about how to help improve the world for the greatest number of
| people.
|
| I wish you serendipity in trying to find yourself, deeply, and in
| discovering what you truly enjoy.
|
| I'd also say don't give up on love. The most important part of it
| all are the people you share your life with. So once you are in a
| good place, fill your life with them. Keep channels open with
| those that you know check that box, as you go through this
| journey of self-discovery that may require more time for
| yourself.
| loxodrome wrote:
| Are we supposed to feel sorry for him? Poor people have the same
| existential thoughts too. At least he has the freedom to choose
| what he wants to do and not to be beholden to anyone, which is
| the whole damn point of being rich. No one ever claimed wealth
| solves all of life's problems. Anyway, his lack of grounding is
| most likely from lack of a family.
| Aeolun wrote:
| The start of the post literally begins with him saying he
| doesn't expect anyone to feel sorry for him, or at least, that
| it's a really silly problem to have.
| bendsawyer wrote:
| Maybe you've got it right.
|
| I lost it all. I spent some time grieving, did some crazy things,
| decided to build wealth all over again, but then didn't. I
| instead picked a topic and started learning. Three degrees later
| I'm pushing the boundaries of a field I had never heard of in
| that past life.
|
| I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable.
|
| I'm happy.
|
| Enjoy Physics. It's awesome.
| kopirgan wrote:
| I'll be downing tools this year. Haven't seen 8" floppy disks but
| 5 1/4" sure. That's where we started.
|
| I think even with a lot less one can simply let go and retire.
| But lots of ducks need to get in row.
|
| Personal health Family situation Where you are Where you came
| from Hobbies & interests Good spouse
| throwaway431234 wrote:
| Im sorta where this guy is but not wealthy much and my money
| train could run out and I'd have to find a new one.
|
| With that said I have lots of time on my hands, some work
| projects to focus on from time to time and currently single as of
| this summer. I live alone and a ton of my time is spent on apps
| connecting with people to meet up offline for adventure and adult
| fun in the hopes I will find my new person or new friend(s). It's
| a full time job but for me really worth finding my new person (or
| friends) to enjoy life with!
|
| I definitely wouldnt be lost if I was completely set I'd have
| more resources to have many homes in different parts of the
| world, immerse myself in different cultures and enjoy my outdoor
| activities (skiing, hiking, kayaking, surfing, etc) with locals
| in different parts of the world (Iceland, Colorado, Miami,
| Hawaii, Australia) . As well turn my hobbies like songwriting and
| creating tech into more then a hobby and most importantly help
| people succeed!
| paulpauper wrote:
| Some sources say each founder made $100 million. I am guessing
| after taxes he maybe only made $60 million? Still a lot
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Hey Vinay, this part struck me:
|
| > with all the mounting insecurities I had stuffed down over the
| past several years. I didn't feel like I could work on them with
| her. So I broke things off after almost 2 years of unconditional
| love. It was extremely painful, but it was the right call. I
| needed to fully face myself.
|
| You had something really special. You obviously miss her. I am
| not saying that anything will come from it, but why not try some
| therapy and see if you guys can work things out? What you had was
| harder to find than the dollar amounts in your blog post. A lot
| of people just don't find that at all.
|
| All the best on whatever's next.
| adamtaylor_13 wrote:
| Yeah it's always interesting to me when people get rid of
| stabilizing social forces in their life to "work on
| themselves". Changing doesn't happen in a vacuum, in fact, it's
| usually DUE TO those social forces that we learn, grow, and
| improve.
|
| Gutting an otherwise healthy relationship to navel-gaze seems
| like a bad choice.
|
| Source: My wife has absolutely pushed me to address hard things
| in my life and I'm better for it.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| That's such a thoughtful thing to say! thank you for sharing
| that Adam. I hope you've told her this too, it would mean a
| lot for her to hear you say so. I find that a good
| encouragement as I seek to one day be married again :)
| adamtaylor_13 wrote:
| Thank you! That's good advice and thankfully I have told
| her many times and in many ways that she has 10x my life.
| nooneevencares wrote:
| I read the blog post and many of the comments and can't help but
| think... how is it you guys are so smart you can create enormous
| amounts of wealth with no idea what to use it on?
|
| There are millions of people struggling to survive and you have
| amassed a pile of resources you've determined the best thing to
| do with is bury?
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| There is a lot of luck involved in striking it rich and naivete
| helps pave the way. Look at the section of the blog post on
| DOGE.
|
| Doesn't it seem pretty childish and immature to think one is
| going to change the US with an organization that 1) isn't an
| official government agency and 2) has no political power. If
| Elon drops dead or falls out of favor with Trump the project is
| basically dead.
| underseacables wrote:
| Start nonprofit businesses that hire, train, and support people
| with physical and developmental disabilities. For example, the
| Adelante of New Mexico. They create companies to provide jobs to
| people with disabilities. They also provide health insurance, a
| living wage, and housing assistance.
|
| Make more companies like that. Put money to doing good, not just
| being good.
| omgJustTest wrote:
| I have a special project, would love to tell you about our
| progress!
| epolanski wrote:
| He's describing what many of people FIREing experience, lack of
| purpose and direction.
|
| This also scares me as someone who's been saving and investing
| for that purpose and I would not want to go through it. I have
| few ideas (similar to his with robotics) or different ventures,
| but it still scares me.
| Thrymr wrote:
| Well, at least he got over his "mission of DOGE is extremely
| important" phase quickly enough. May he go off and learn
| something about himself and the universe studying physics.
| deadbabe wrote:
| When you become rich you need to switch from a goal oriented
| mindset to a value based one.
|
| There are no more goals for you to achieve. Instead, focus on
| values you believe in and try to live those values every day. It
| will be an endless journey that will last the rest of your life.
| Values don't need a reason or purpose, they just exist.
|
| For example, if I became rich my values would simply be traveling
| the world and dressing fancy. Easy.
| rafram wrote:
| [flagged]
| paulpauper wrote:
| Yeah, how did a screen recorder get $200 million funding or was
| acquired for $900 million? The tech was already saturated and
| old at the time. Skype and others were already established.
| Makes me think "been doing it all wrong" meme. I think the $60
| million weas pre-tax? After tax oud be $40 million?...still a
| lot.
| kortilla wrote:
| This post wasn't upvoted because of economic or philosophical
| insights
| loa_in_ wrote:
| People want a proven method for finding a niche... which is an
| oxymoron at some level. The proven methods that are accessible
| are already taken and used.
| dang wrote:
| " _Don 't be snarky._"
|
| " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of
| what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
| criticize. Assume good faith._"
|
| " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
| people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| ruined wrote:
| i'm not rich but i know what i want to do
|
| 0xB7ed48cEb34Bcf73d8cFCB7904d2ae2C3F685D42
| Jach wrote:
| If you don't want to live your own life, you can live it for
| others.
|
| If you get tired of living for others, you can live your life for
| yourself.
|
| There are a lot of philanthropic pursuits that could really use
| an extra million or two per year (LEVF would be my top pick),
| which is less than you'd expect to make from index funds returns.
| zwilderrr wrote:
| I recommend reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F**
| catonmat wrote:
| > However, there are some questions left unanswered.
|
| > Why did I need to do the absolute most to reach this point?
|
| > Why couldn't I just leave Loom and say "I don't know what I
| want to do next"?
|
| > Why do I feel the need to only be on a journey if it's grand?
|
| > What is wrong with being insignificant?
|
| > Why is letting people down so hard?
|
| For these questions, I would suggest, you please read blogposts
| on https://os.me
|
| Om Swami is an entrepreneur extraordinaire and has discovered his
| own truth. I am sure you will find it helpful.
|
| Spoiler: He was(is?) also ultra rich and has figured out this
| stuff.
| adfm wrote:
| Be kind.
| jeffreyrogers wrote:
| This is very common among people who sell their companies. AJ
| Wasserstein[0] at Yale's school of management has written a few
| things about it. He built up and sold a (non-tech) business for a
| substantial amount of money, so he's not just theorizing. Here's
| one of the things he's written:
| https://yale.app.box.com/s/ye0naovus7anbz875vcrcpzrdskjskgf
|
| [0]: https://som.yale.edu/faculty-research/faculty-
| directory/aj-w...
| iddan wrote:
| Probably not gonna get upvoted but I'm pretty surprised none of
| the the top comments mentions volunteering or philanthropy. I
| believe people who get lucky should land a hand in making the
| world a better place. We are facing huge crises (climate change
| to name one) and as a wealthy individual you have both the time
| to spend helping to fix that and the fortune to donate. Being a
| smart wealthy individual just makes everything more valuable
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| I'm amazed he didn't even seem to entertain it as an option.
| It's quite unusual because even a total narcissist would
| eventually land on philanthropy as an ego-trip
| FreePalestine1 wrote:
| Greed
| hindsightbias wrote:
| The lesson from FTX was to burn it all down.
| benkaiser wrote:
| Absolutely.
|
| I recently read "The Life You Can Save" by Peter Singer, and it
| really does a great job of making the case for generosity even
| amongst middle class 1st world individuals.
|
| ebook/audiobook are free from their website:
| https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org.au/the-book/
| kalkin wrote:
| Right. There's no rule that if you get a hold of $XX million
| that you need to keep it. I'd argue, in fact, that there's a
| pretty good case you're obligated to give most of it away; you
| can keep single-digit millions and have total financial
| security for all practical purposes while sacrificing only a
| few luxuries that, as the author of this essay appears to have
| noticed, won't actually give your life meaning. Meanwhile, each
| $1M donated to insecticide-treated bednets (for one well-
| quantified example) could save hundreds of lives:
| https://www.givewell.org/charities/amf#What_do_you_get_for_y...
|
| If there's a moral case for keeping the cash, it's the leverage
| it could provide to do something that (at least has a chance of
| being) even bigger. But few are the people who have legitimate
| reason to believe the expected value calculation comes out
| positively. People who feel directionless or jump on the latest
| Elon thing on a whim seem especially unlikely to be among those
| few.
|
| (I'm not going to provide documentation, so take this for what
| little it's worth, but I myself gave away the majority of the
| several million I received for being a sufficiently early
| employee at the right startup. And I do not regret it.)
| iosnoob wrote:
| Thank you for doing that. We're all better off with people
| who use their good fortune to help others in need.
| zestyping wrote:
| Thank you for giving away your wealth to help other people.
| Let's normalize this practice.
| nick3443 wrote:
| Nice job giving away the majority of your wealth. That's a
| brave and noble move. I'm up to 7% given away but plan to
| keep doing it over time.
| kalkin wrote:
| I don't think it was particularly brave, even. I mentioned
| it just to try to normalize it. I'm not exactly living like
| an ascetic and I don't understand why people feel they need
| so much more.
| awb wrote:
| Good point. The about page does mention this. But perhaps
| broadening the volunteer perspective to other causes might give
| them greater purpose.
|
| > i invest in companies and am willing to offer help to
| founders i vibe with for free and for no allocation
| valgor wrote:
| Came here to say this. Money is a tool to make the world a
| better place. He could be funding schools, scholarships,
| research projects, new start ups, and so much more. This is
| what I have been doing, and it has given my life so much more
| meaning than anything else I have done. I work to donate
| because that is how I have the biggest impact.
| MrMcCall wrote:
| If you want to see the picture of success in spending one's
| money, find the pictures of Lebron James surprising the kids in
| the school he built in his home town of Akron, Ohio. His smile is
| the verifiable truth of "you reap what you sow".
|
| Find other people to make happy, by first reducing their misery,
| and you ensure your own luck and happiness. It's the most
| important magic there is, along with repeating a Holy Name of
| God, like Nyame in Ghanaian (I learned that today on a walk).
|
| Lebron reaps the joy of those hundreds of kids that he makes
| happy every single day. It comes back into our inner peace and
| happiness. And power.
|
| Succeed for others and your success will only grow. Because
| compassion. Always compassion.
| mordymoop wrote:
| It's always climbing mountains. Why does nobody ever go money-mad
| and excavate an exact replica of the dwarven city of Khazad-dum
| in the Black Hills of South Dakota?
| Trasmatta wrote:
| The "10,000 Year Clock" that Bezos is funding is kinda like
| that: https://www.10000yearclock.net/learnmore.html
| montefischer wrote:
| I have wondered this too. I think there are regulatory
| constraints.
| ip26 wrote:
| The mountains are loaded with metaphor, seem nearly
| insurmountable, filled with danger and excitement...
|
| Turns out, of course, that they are less dangerous than in the
| past, money goes a long way, and the human body is pretty good
| at walking even without training.
|
| Notice it's never free climbing the nose in a day, which would
| require 5-7 years of dedicated training.
| wetmore wrote:
| >Notice it's never free climbing the nose in a day, which
| would require 5-7 years of dedicated training.
|
| Would take way more than that for the average person. You can
| count the number of people who have done that as of now on
| one hand.
| dustincoates wrote:
| A guy in Texas did that with the Forbidden City:
| https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/forbidden-gardens
| Avlin67 wrote:
| discipline is all you need
| ArlenBales wrote:
| Hey Vanay, go do a thru-hike like the Pacific Crest Trail. You
| won't regret it. (I hiked it last year, and will again this year)
| dqh wrote:
| You could have some kids, and let them lead you :)
| ropable wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that you don't need to come into excessive wealth
| to go through this kind of identity crisis, but it does probably
| afford you a lot more free time to dwell on it (which probably
| makes it feel "bigger"). Here's hoping the author can settle on a
| new goal on which to anchor his identity, and here's also hoping
| that it's some kind of philanthropic/common good (helping move
| society towards low-carbon energy abundance would be my pick).
| stuckkeys wrote:
| I have a solution. You can spend some money on me haha. I am the
| opposite. You know what they say "opposite attracts" and I am
| attracted to you being rich haha jk.
|
| Jokes aside, it is wild to read comments like these. I guess I do
| not know that feeling. I come from a working class, I did good
| for myself but then got affected by the entire layoff wave which
| kind of sent me back to stone ages.
|
| You could travel and you could invest in new ideas something that
| has potential to make a real life changes in our future. You
| could become Batman!
|
| But dm me if you really want to help someone out.
| newobj wrote:
| Just go to therapy dude instead of trauma dumping on HN
| haunter wrote:
| I'll never be rich but if I were I'd just travel. That's it. So
| many places to explore. Completing the 88 temples Shikoku
| Pilgrimage is one my lifegoal
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikoku_Pilgrimage
| wepple wrote:
| What might start as "wow! A whole new place" ends up being "ok,
| just another new place" for many people.
| motohagiography wrote:
| It's not really a lot of money, but it is a non-trivial
| management problem you'd have to spend more time than you think
| responding to- and at an opportunity cost against things that
| provide belonging, satisfaction, hope, and joy. With these new
| obligations, you need to manage them so that you can focus on
| those other good things.
|
| Get it managed, out of cash, and get it planned for and pay
| yourself your old salary with a small raise for a bit. Be sober
| for a while. Avoid sex workers. Rent a supercar before buying
| one. Use a personal trainer to get fit. your job is "managing
| investments" to anyone who asks. Luxury is mostly symbolic.
| Family and friends are both free and irreplacable. Privacy and
| mobility are usually worth it.
|
| It's not something you are, it's just something you manage now.
| There's a great quote from the BlueBottle coffee guys, "money in
| hand, not in heart" or somesuch. How to extract value from a big
| pile of cash is a challenging question that really smart wealth
| managers get paid stupidly well to solve, and there's zero reason
| why you should think you can do it without investing in some
| education. Take some time to grieve the attachments it has
| evaporated.
|
| You're just you with a new and peculiar set of problems. Good
| luck.
|
| (I don't have that money, but I've known it most of my life, and
| within my means I've just learned to do the things that people
| who can have anything in the world choose to do. they're pretty
| good.)
| paulpauper wrote:
| how is tens of millions not a lot?
| 41599799 wrote:
| What things do people choose to do when they can have anything
| in the world ?
| droideqa wrote:
| I think it is important to support what I call 'amplifiers' in
| the tech sphere.
|
| I think the FSF is the number one for me[0]. They invented the
| GPL, got the ball rolling, and were very innovative with the
| creation of the AGPL.
|
| If anyone has extra money and reads this, please do your own
| research into the FSF and figure out if it makes sense. They take
| extreme positions when it comes to tech software, but they define
| a point on the tech spectrum that in turn defines the whole
| spectrum. I hope that last sentence makes sense.
|
| [0]: https://www.library.hbs.edu/working-knowledge/open-source-
| so...
| calebm wrote:
| "I think everybody should get rich and famous and do everything
| they ever dreamed of so they can see that it's not the answer."
| -- Jim Carrey
| neilk wrote:
| I know that people like me do not belong on HN anymore, but:
|
| Calling people "NPCs" is vile.
|
| And, the entire ideology that makes it okay to say that one's
| fellow earthling is just an NPC? That is probably a major
| component of this person's problems.
| drawkward wrote:
| That kind of callow, callous indifference towards the lives of
| others is the kind of thing that could get a healthcare ceo
| assassinated while the country cheers on the assassin.
| fifticon wrote:
| It's probably impossible to counter-act the aggressive
| reactions here on the "NPC" term. But the way people interpret
| his phrase, and how I read it, seem very different? People seem
| to read it as him saying "colleagues are NPCs". I read it as
| 'in your life, you will come across co-workers who appear to
| approach their jobs as though they were NPCs'. IE, you will
| experience some colleagues who act as if they were controlled
| by bad game AI. The point then is: If you are one of those who
| care about "the ball/the game", it can be very aggravating to
| "play the game", when some of your coworkers act with an "NPC
| attitude" ("I can't go into that other room, there is an
| obstacle blocking my path").
|
| So I read it as him saying "staying at the company where I am
| no longer in control, would drive me nuts having to tolerate
| groups of colleagues who insist on behaving like NPC's / show
| up to work on auto-pilot".
|
| As an example, the company where I work recently had an AI
| hackathon event, where we could work together on AI prototypes
| on company time. Some of us were thrilled to be given these
| tools and opportunities. And then there were some other
| colleagues, whose enthusiasm could be summed up as "Whatever,
| I'm out the door at 15:30 afternoon, I'm not paid after that".
|
| In short, being annoyed at NPC coworkers is not the same as
| believing "coworkers are only NPCs".
| neilk wrote:
| That is a more optimistic read of what he might mean by NPC.
| I cannot possibly know for sure, but I don't think so.
|
| NPC is a meme with shifting meaning, but I have never seen
| NPC used as an adjective for an activity or aspect of
| someone's life. It is invariably used to condemn an entire
| person as unworthy of consideration, and maybe even subhuman.
|
| It is frequently used by tech leaders that Vinay apparently
| admires, as a term of disdain for large groups of people. The
| analogy is that the person appears to be human, and go
| through the motions of being human, but they don't actually
| have thoughts of their own. Graphically they are represented
| by a primitively drawn grey figure who has limited capability
| for expression, just varying the eyebrows. The NPC is often
| presented in a group of identical figures.
|
| Musk uses "NPC" loosely, often to refer to the media. His
| critics are always NPCs, as is anyone to his left. He implies
| they merely act in lockstep with whatever is trending on
| social media. For Musk, people who believe there is a
| genocide in Gaza are NPCs. Amazingly, even when a person who
| formerly idolized Musk begins criticizing him, it is because
| they are an NPC.
|
| Sam Altman does not seem to have as open a problem with
| narcissism. But he also seems to be suggesting that many
| humans are more machine-like than AI:
|
| > in a few years, the important distinction won't be bot vs.
| human, but NPC (human or AI) vs. not"
|
| > we won't be able to be sure if text is human-generated or
| not, but it also won't be the most important question.
| 'independence' will be a very important metric."
|
| https://x.com/sama/status/1574196546039517184
|
| It seems to me that the tech-right, rationalist, EAs,
| TESCREALists, whatever we're calling it now, value agency
| above all. They often describe themselves as "high agency"
| people. And so the NPC, someone incapable of agency and maybe
| even lacking a soul, is the worst possible fate.
|
| Musk claims to love humanity, but I would be curious to find
| out how much of humanity he thinks are NPCs. Are NPCs just a
| particular species that have taken over academia, the media,
| and government? Or are the majority of people NPCs and only a
| few high-IQ and high achievement individuals are really fully
| human?
| ziofill wrote:
| Here's an idea, donate most of it to a reputable charity
| organization and go back to work.
| bdangubic wrote:
| hookers and cocaine of course ...
| https://youtu.be/0yrIvEgqAuo?feature=shared
| fragmede wrote:
| Step one is to take down the post saying you have $60 million.
| Step one in every. single. guide. on what to do is to not to do
| when you make it big is advertise how much money you have. Holy
| hell, just ask for "what to do if I win the lottery"
|
| Step two is to find new friends. No, not to ditch your old ones;
| for being relative to you, poor, but to find other millionaires
| you _can_ bitch about "zeroth world problems" with. If I told my
| friends that my Ferrari is going to take 2 years because there's
| a list, they're not going to have the remotest bit of sympathy,
| OR be able to help in any way. But if you make friend ym who are
| in that scene, they'll at least remember what it was like for
| them to get their first one, and maybe let you borrow theirs.
| (obviously Ferrari's aren't everyone's thing. The point is not
| the specifc brand, or even cars in general, but that, rich or
| poor, find community that you share interest with. You don't have
| to, but you can develop new, previously too expensive hobbies and
| will need new people who like those hobbies.
|
| Form a foundation through which to give money that doesn't have
| your name on it. It'll come in handy for GoFundMe's for people
| you liked before you got rich. The anonymous button still gives
| your name to the organizer.
|
| Take some time off to get utterly bored of not working. It's fun
| for a bit, but it gets old. After that, go find a job. Doesn't
| have to be a full time job, doesn't have to be paid, doesn't have
| to have anything to do with your. previous career, but trust me,
| you'll get bored having nothing to do eventually and need
| something.
|
| One thing sticks out in that article though, and that's not doing
| something because Elon's cringe. If someone had said how cringe
| it is to record a video yourself reading slides, would he be
| where he is today?
|
| Don't be Elon if you don't want to, but if you want to work on
| robotics, go work on robotics. Who gives a shit what that
| egomaniac does?
|
| The bigger advice there is find a therapist and talk it through
| with them. find one through your new wealthy friends for someone
| that's experience in your new problems. Just like there are
| therapists rush specialize in bullying or sexual abuse or
| divorce, there are those who specialize in other areas.
| r2gross wrote:
| brother, the answer is kids
| purple-leafy wrote:
| Man, this thread is a bit silly. Not having to worry about
| finances is a fucking miracle for most people.
|
| I'd happily trade places with the OP, because there is so much I
| already do and would do even more with the free time.
|
| Completely un-relatable. I have come across a sum of money once
| before, it was stressful initially but it gave us free time.
|
| People saying money makes things harder, what a fucking stupid
| thing to say. Money makes EVERYTHING easier.
|
| Learning for 1, I love learning. Being with family, and letting
| them have more free time. Starting an animal rescue shelter.
| Tinkering with retro-electronics. Hiking and walking entire
| countries and writing about it.
| r2gross wrote:
| brother, just have kids
| A_D_E_P_T wrote:
| Okay, I have a wild idea for you.
|
| You need adventure.
|
| As others have said, you also need a hobby.
|
| Consider how rapamycin was discovered, by scientists traveling to
| distant Rapa Nui and sampling soil. There are _lots_ of truly
| wild places left on Earth -- most of Papua New Guinea, the
| northwestern Bolivian Amazon, the deep interior of the DRC, to
| name but few -- places where civilization has yet to touch. Go
| out there, discover new plant and insect species, and fingerprint
| plant and soil samples. You might find some very interesting and
| commercially-useful small molecules. But, more importantly, it
| would be a lot of fun.
|
| You'd need a team, but that shouldn't be too difficult to
| assemble.
|
| It's what I would do if I had absolute freedom.
| more_corn wrote:
| If having a bunch of money is a problem, there's a solution. Give
| it away and start again. It sounds stupid but a lot of people do
| it.
|
| I've traveled a lot and opportunity is definitely not evenly
| distributed. There are millions of people who have potential and
| can't afford silly things like books, school, tools necessary to
| succeed. If I wanted to give away a bunch or money I'd found work
| training programs for blue collar jobs in some major cities of
| developing nations. Provide training and tools for capable
| youngsters who might not otherwise have opportunities.
|
| Although... this is not a tale about having too much money. It's
| a tale about not knowing what to do next.
|
| You need to recapture the satisfaction of work. Your professional
| identity was a big part of who you were and you're falling apart
| without it. Unfortunately the old one is dead so you have to
| create a new one. The good news is there's a foundation to build
| in.
|
| Track down half a dozen people you've enjoyed working with before
| and start a business with them. I also recommend working
| mentorship into the mix.
| neilv wrote:
| Regarding the part of breaking up with girlfriend shortly after a
| winning startup exit, I'm reminded of a friend. (Different
| situation, but something to think about.)
|
| She saw her bf through the difficult process of a developing a
| creative work, and eventually he completed it, won a prestigious
| reward... and he broke up with her.
|
| He got invited to the White House because of the award, and I
| think missing out on _that_ recognition and experience, where she
| could 've attended as the partner, was symbolic for her.
|
| It wasn't that he was upgrading, since she was an all-around
| catch, including probably being fabulous at whatever kind of
| cocktail party circles he entered.
|
| It did seem like awkward timing, to decide that a relationship
| wasn't going to work out, after all.
|
| (Don't worry, she's OK now: highly accomplished in her own career
| and creative side, and is also raising a family with a better
| match.)
| cj wrote:
| Sure, awkward timing.
|
| But the alternative would be to change the timing for...
| optics?
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| No, the alternative would be to not drop your gf merely to
| "find yourself".
| VectorLock wrote:
| And suddenly wanting to "find yourself" when you don't need
| the support any more.
|
| Sounds like a pretty shitty person. To some people, loyalty
| counts for nothing.
| neilv wrote:
| I think they put themself out there a bit in writing,
| which is commendable, and we don't know the full story.
|
| I think the value is to reflect upon our own situations,
| and mentally file away these stories for future reference
| and reflection.
| khazhoux wrote:
| > And suddenly wanting to "find yourself" when you don't
| need the support any more.
|
| It's like you took away the literal opposite meaning of
| what OP wrote. The entire post is him sharing his
| personal crisis and total lack of purpose and motivation.
| He is literally saying he does not know what he needs to
| find his way out of that.
|
| But he decided he needed to not be in a relationship (or
| in that specific relationship) at this time. How does
| that make him a shitty person?
|
| Surely you're not suggesting he should stick with her so
| she can partake in the financial gains.
| matrix87 wrote:
| what should he have done? given her half first?
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| Why not? Would that make him feel worse somehow? How
| would he even know?
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Life doesn't always play out with clean narratives.
| People change in unexpected ways and sometimes getting
| through a tough time is specifically what prompts growth.
|
| The alternative is to live a lie or never change.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Let me present a more charitable phrasing of what OP wrote:
|
| He is going through an unanticipated personal crisis, and
| decided he needed to be alone at this point in his life.
|
| Should he have kept the relationship going because he has
| money now?
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| Yeah, I found that quite shitty. Some vague Bollywood BS about
| finding oneself and no meaningful reasons for ending a 2yr long
| relationship.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Not surprising for someone who describes post-acquisition
| colleagues as NPCs. They do have a modicum of self-awareness
| around wanting to be Elon, so perhaps there's hope. I'm only
| realizing now how empathy goes a long way in giving a sense
| of purpose.
|
| It reads like the first act for a movie that can go in one of
| many directions: a drama about a middle-aged, coke-fiend
| Miami "baller"; a tragedy about a bad Ayahuasca trip that
| leads to a psychotic break; or a heartwarming romantic comedy
| about an asshole with a heart of gold who finds themself (and
| true love) in Hawaii, with a quirky, doe-eyed British tourist
| as the love interest.
|
| Edit: curious to know that the DOGE has ramped up and staffed
| with SV geniuses to be set loose on complex systems with long
| feedback loops. The next four^w few years will be
| interesting.
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| It really is quite comical.
|
| "Within 5 minutes of my first hike, the trees smiled at me
| and whispered their simple wisdom."
| tortilla wrote:
| They really need to bring back Silicon Valley for new
| episodes.
| sangnoir wrote:
| The whole post is Hannemanesque, isn't it? It could
| easily be a flashback episode (or prequel spin-off) of
| Russ' struggles after selling his Radio on Internet
| startup. For timeline purposes, he'd briefly work for VP
| Cheney's task Force on Iraq, until he gets bored.
| globular-toast wrote:
| When a relationship fails you can be certain about one thing:
| something wasn't working. Many bad relationships continue, but
| no good relationships end. There are many factors that can make
| a relationship bad that people will not talk about, like sex.
| You just have to give people the benefit of the doubt really.
| karolist wrote:
| You don't know enough to know the full picture, easy to draw
| conclusions sure, but they are most likely incorrect.
| jonnycoder wrote:
| I have the opposite problem. I know exactly what I would do if I
| had enough money in the bank to live off the interest. I remind
| myself how lucky I am and to be grateful, which is probably the
| most helpful thing I do.
|
| As someone who has developed software for almost 20 years, and
| who is also staying on top of LLMs because I genuinely enjoy it,
| I really feel like I will make some good money soon.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| Perhaps I missed something, but from what I saw none of his
| attempts to do something new seemed to involve any kind of
| genuine efforts to improve the lives of others...
|
| Bit amazing that wasn't even something he would consider.
| maroonblazer wrote:
| Yeah, I was going to comment that doing volunteer work in some
| form could go a long way towards curing what ills him.
| Surprised that that wasn't even mentioned in TFA.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| I get the impression his past ideology looked down on that
| kind of volunteering, this is someone who thinks working for
| DOGE (department of government efficiency) is a humanitarian
| action.
| sangnoir wrote:
| You mean the lives of NPCs - as he'd call them? I doubt the
| thought even crossed his mind
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| sounds more like he would to fire everyone (DOGE "efficiency")
| and let the robots do the work (transfer of wealth from workers
| to corporations); not sure where that leaves humans ...
| astura wrote:
| Not "amazing", this guy clearly doesn't see normal people as
| humans - he even called them NPCs and dumped his long term
| girlfriend to "fund himself."
|
| Guy's a sociopath.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| I have no idea who this guy is but anyone willing to go work for
| Elon/Trump seriously needs to reevaluate their ethics in life.
| How disgusting.
| tippytippytango wrote:
| If you are rich you have the ability to become a scientist
| without worrying about money. That is an absurd privilege that I
| am personally working towards. To contribute to science is one of
| the most enduring things you can do for humanity. The money will
| come and go. Even if you pass it down, it will be diluted away
| within 2-3 generations. But, if you contribute knowledge, it will
| forever be a brick in the edifice of humanity's collective
| knowledge. Please don't waste the opportunity.
| nibab wrote:
| despite the title..i read this post as an exhaustion with SV
| culture. everything starting with the personality types that are
| elevated (ie some flavor of antisocial personality disorder) and
| ending with the activities that earn you social capital (ie
| identifying the next anti-consensus big industry).
|
| i've seen this happen with people that have had much much smaller
| financial success in the industry..or even ones that haven't had
| any at all. you are either naturally inclined to identify with
| the culture or you trick yourselves into it so that you may
| belong.
|
| <insert paragraph about social desire to be connected and how we
| construct an image of ourselves through others>
|
| the culture of SV today is an amalgamation of Taylorist ideas,
| Randian objectivism, Utilitarianism etc etc. there is a lot of
| social capital to be earned by embodying the values of these
| currents. DOGE is a quintessential representation of this. it is
| not surprising at all that author had such a visceral reaction to
| it.
|
| its important to emphasize that there have been very successful
| companies that have gone against the current (ie Apple), with an
| emphasis on craftsmanship, obsession with the process, taste-
| driven vs data-driven decisions and appreciation for things that
| are outside of profit maximization.
| movedx wrote:
| Just a thought I'd like to share: the finish line to "Fuck you
| money" (FUM) isn't even remotely close to the $60m mark. It's not
| even beyond $100,000. Once you have no debts nor a mortgage, and
| you have $100k in savings, you have FUM, because suddenly you
| need $25k a year to live well.
|
| I say this as a member of this community, who are (generally
| speaking) relatively well paid folk in IT.
|
| If you have a partner in life then you're even better off again.
|
| I don't believe it's actually that hard to reach FUM if you've
| got your fair share of luck, discipline, a partner, and the
| stable environment. For those who don't have those things, I
| respect your position and wish you the best of luck -- I'm sorry
| life is harder for you.
|
| Edit: I'm aware you need insurance too, for health, life/death,
| accidental, etc. Again, you need a stable environment to make
| this work and be easier to achieve -- the USA is not a safe nor
| stable environment.
| fragmede wrote:
| You need healthcare, you need an emergency fund, you need elder
| care, retirement. College fund for your kids. if you get hit by
| a freak meteor and become mentally/physically disabled, you're
| not going to be able to make $25k/yr.
|
| For it to be FUM is enough to live off the interest at 4%
| withdrawal for the rest of your life. At an estimate, it takes
| between $250k and million dollars to get through a case of
| cancer. You're not getting through it on $25k/yr after you get
| fired because you can't work because you have cancer, and you
| won't be able to afford lawers to fight getting fired either.
|
| $25k might be enough for a twenty year old with no
| responsibilities who can still eat dollar store ramen, but it's
| not enough for someone with responsibilities past subsistence
| eating.
|
| Also don't forget inflation.
| movedx wrote:
| You're describing insurance. And you're assuming I said you
| STOP working, when I did not say or imply that.
| fragmede wrote:
| I'm describing insurance _not working_. I 'm explicitly
| saying you can't assume you'll be able to work the rest of
| your life. A hit-and-run drunk driver could hit you can run
| off, and you get paralyzed and your insurance denies your
| (very expensive) claim. Even if you sue them and win, that
| could take years before they pay out. $100k ain't gonna go
| very far.
| movedx wrote:
| You're free to live your life in fear if you wish.
| kelseydh wrote:
| I think it's implied with FUM that you have enough money to
| not work for the rest of your life. This is because without
| the need to work you have total freedom to set your
| schedule.
| movedx wrote:
| That's never how it's been described to me. That's always
| been known to me as FI/RE or just being rich. FUM is
| simply the ability to walk away from a job and be very
| picky about where you work.
| kelseydh wrote:
| I do like that mindset as that definition of FUM is much
| easier to achieve than FIRE. However, I always assumed
| FUM meant you could be so unlikeable or disagreeable as
| to be unemployable and still be financially fine.
| AI_beffr wrote:
| i think that would be more accurately labeled as financial
| independence rather than FU money. im not sure FU money really
| exists
| movedx wrote:
| FUM is simply the ability to talk away from an employer and
| seek another one in your own sweet time.
| UK-AL wrote:
| To me this is just most professionals over 30
| NKosmatos wrote:
| Sorry but I'm not going to upvote this, instead I'm going to act
| like the rest of the normal people and say WTF? You have so many
| millions and don't know what to do? You've attained financial and
| work freedom and yet you complain? What is wrong with you rich
| people? If I had 400k I would live a trouble free and happy life
| and we have rich people coming here on HN to rub in our faces
| their zeroth world problems... I don't care if I get down voted
| or my comment gets deleted, but I feel sorry for the OP :-(
| iwontberude wrote:
| Haven't you seen the price of homes in Los Altos or Stanford
| with acreage? It's like $20-30m, have some sympathy for your
| common man.
| prashp wrote:
| Have you tried doing things for others instead of yourself?
| einrealist wrote:
| There must be something like a "sudden wealth-life crisis",
| comparable to a midlife crisis. My only advise is to refrain from
| impulsive decisions in such a situation. But that advise is late
| here. I hope he has an environment that can ground him. Find
| productive work, but nothing that puts on too much of a burden
| (like this ultra-political "DOGE"). Always remember: your wealth
| is a result of luck and/or decent leadership and OTHER PEOPLE'S
| WORK. Be decent, be kind and BE REALISTIC. Please don't become
| Elon.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| >There must be something like a "sudden wealth-life crisis",
| comparable to a midlife crisis.
|
| I don't think that's the same thing. Unlike a midlife crisis a
| too-much-money crisis is eminently solvable, just give it all
| away. Traditionally the entire problem with being cursed with
| something is that it's really difficult to get rid of. Money?
| Very easy, I'm taking checks if anyone is plagued by this
| condition.
|
| Spinoza thought money would disconnect him from the life of the
| philosopher so he just gave all of his possessions away and
| went couch hopping. If you're so serious about lacking meaning
| due to simply having too much money (these founders are not,
| they just like to brag) a good accountant and charity of your
| choice can help you out
| bogwog wrote:
| It's wild how a random tech millionaire can just walk into our
| government and start deciding how the rest of us get to live as
| part of a therapeutic exercise for his mid-life crisis (or
| whatever you call this).
|
| The way this is written suggests there's still a little bit of
| self awareness left in him, but that's definitely on its way out
| the door. I wonder if there's a name for that phenomenon? If not,
| my suggestion is "Elon's Disease"
|
| I hope if I ever reach that point that I have enough wisdom left
| to take my money and fuck off to an island somewhere.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| > DOGE
|
| Was saddened to read this section in the post. You'd think that
| smart people would be able to see through Elon-ego-filled-
| bullshit; but I'm afraid many have been in that circle so long
| they've drunk the Kool-Aid. I'm not steeped in the wealthy SV
| community, but I can tell you that the few I've personally met or
| am acquainted with, make me want to run the other way.
|
| On DOGE, I'm quite sure every Gov department could benefit from
| greater efficiency, no argument there. I'm also quite sure that
| it won't actually reduce the Gov budget all that much (just take
| a look at where most discretionary spending goes). And more
| importantly, would it make the lives of ordinary Americans (not
| rich Americans) better? Or would it just be some "achievement
| unlocked" type of thing. It's clear to me that Elon mostly cares
| about the latter.
|
| Now if Elon were to cut our military budget in half, now __that__
| could have a significant impact. Except that even if he wanted
| to, Congress (both parties) wouldn't let him: one does not kill
| sacred cows.
|
| But you know what worries me more a lot more than government
| waste? The fact that the richest man in the world was able to pay
| $250M to sway an election. I'm not saying Elon bought the
| election, because maybe Trump would have won without Elon
| spending a dime -- but we'll never know, will we? If this were in
| some other country we'd be talking about "banana republic
| government corruption" and our "model" constitutional democracy,
| etc.
| graycat wrote:
| What to do? Apparently long so _overqualified_ that
| _unemployable_ so am doing a startup. If it is successful, I 'll
| pay off some old bills and loans. Then, sure, pursue mathematical
| physics, maybe get a modest house with a lake, woods, and fields,
| hope foxes, beavers, swans, etc. have a good home there. Did too
| well with education and technology but still wasted nearly all my
| life with nonsense from in too many respects being poorly
| informed (about people, academics, business) and would like to
| help some children in the family tree avoid the waste of the
| nonsense and get on with a good life, at least love, home,
| marriage, family, and some accomplishments in business, science,
| etc. Made enough progress with violin (easier to carry than a
| piano) to play the D major part of the Bach _Chaconne_ but would
| like to return to music, on a piano and play through some Richard
| Wagner scores and try to learn _what he did_.
| voidhorse wrote:
| Surprise, surprise, money and "success" are not the keys to
| happiness.
|
| Sorry to be a bit harsh, but it's both hilarious and sad to me
| that people like this exist (people, who, no less, have the gall
| to call other human beings "NPC"s yet would be helpless and have
| no idea what to do in life were it not for the world telling them
| to follow the facile pursuit of extreme wealth--hah!) It's no
| wonder software is infested with technology that is, at best a
| hyper niche, lucky market fit that really doesn't need to exist
| and will not be remembered in a decade and at worst of products
| that are outright societal ills.
|
| Well, such is life when we encourage people to be narcissistic,
| mindless, money-seeking drones instead of socially aware,
| emotionally intelligent, and caring human beings.
|
| I'm happy you are finally on the way to reflection OP, but it
| really does depress me that there are so many "intelligent"
| people that seemingly don't bother to think about or question the
| motives of the socioeconomic system at large and whether or not
| the life the system is suggesting they pursue is really a
| meaningful one. Apparently for some it takes getting incredibly
| lucky (and hard work, let's not ignore that, but luck is a key
| component here too) and incredibly rich to even begin to start
| engaging in the level of self-reflection that scores of nameless
| barflies, poets, and yokels were capable of hundreds of years
| ago.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Oh fuck off. Just fuck off.
| scoofy wrote:
| I studied philosophy in college and grad school, mainly because I
| was raised extremely religious and couldn't figure out what was
| real and what was bullshit.
|
| Every time I read something like this I think to myself 'just
| please go get a degree in academic philosophy.' It teaches you
| how to think.
|
| The type of folks who were incredulous about the idea that
| someone would study something so useless and naval-gazing, I see
| many of them unsatisfied with life because they have taken the
| world as it comes, and haven't taken the time to read the
| existentialists, specifically the ones who wrote about success. I
| would recommend Tennessee Williams "The Catastrophe of Success":
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Catastrophe_of_Success
|
| Understanding existentialism, understanding absurdism, these are
| really useful things to being able to live a satisfying life but
| in abundance and in a lack of abundance. My partner is really
| into yoga and meditation and stuff, and much of what I've read
| about buddism is basically just religious existentialism and
| absurdism.
|
| All the best to the author, I hope you are able to do well. Life
| is hard, and success isn't always what we wanted.
| voidhorse wrote:
| I have a similar background. I think the fact that philosophy
| is not required learning in all schools is part of the reason
| the US, at least, is currently in such a pitiful state. The OP
| is a perfect example of the kind of mindless, soulless drone
| servicing the machine you become without philosophical
| tutelage. I would feel sorry for these people if they weren't
| in a position to cause so much damage. We don't need fools like
| this to have so many resources at their disposal.
| egypturnash wrote:
| Hi, Vinlay. I'm a broke artist. You should give me a lot of your
| money.
| maxerickson wrote:
| Yes, this burden can be shared.
| a_t48 wrote:
| Vinay - would love to chat about what you learned about robotics.
| I am in the process of starting a robotics company (focused on
| software), and could use any advice you might have. Talked with
| plenty of investors, but talking to founders is much harder with
| this being my first startup. Is it alright if I email you?
| largbae wrote:
| Two words: make babies.
|
| They will change your whole program, and for the better.
| user629 wrote:
| Would you consider donating to me so that I could take some time
| to work on some similar internal struggles?
| globalnode wrote:
| Hope mr self centred provided financially for his ex girlfriend
| who by his own description gave him unconditional love and
| support.
| Aeolun wrote:
| People always say that just making something open source
| doesn't entitle other people to something like support, but it
| seems like the consensus is that this doesn't extend to
| girlfriends?
|
| Not being married implies the ability of either to leave
| whenever it suits them without any financial obligations to the
| other. She had nothing to fear if the startup failed and left
| him in debt, and conversely, she doesn't necessarily gain
| anything if the reverse is true.
|
| I dunno, everyone dunking on him for this feels like a kinda
| shitty thing to do. It seems like he's self aware enough that
| he already knows this, and he'll undoubtedly find out later he
| regrets it when it's too late to fix it.
| Lerc wrote:
| In 1997 Kurt Vonnegut did not write
|
| _Don't feel guilty if you don't know what you want to do with
| your life. The most interesting people I know didn't know at 22
| what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the most
| interesting 40-year-olds I know still don't._
|
| I'm not sure if Mary Schmich (who did write it) takes pride in
| her words being frequently credited to an esteemed writer, or if
| it rankles. Later Baz Luhrmann made the words into a #1.
|
| Anyway, I agree. You don't need to know where to go next, just be
| curious and find things as you investigate. Sometimes a project
| will call to you. Don't be concerned if it hasn't yet.
|
| Your project does not have to be a business. If you wanted to
| embark on a Dwarf Fortress kind of project you could happily work
| at it for the rest of your life without needing it to be a money
| making venture. Your Dwarf Fortress might be A database of the
| world's cheese or a castle built entirely from synthetic diamonds
| you produce one at a time from your own machine. It doesn't have
| to be easy or even possible to complete. I don't think you can
| decide on something and go do it. I think your thing will tell
| you when it is ready.
| nurple wrote:
| Thanks for writing this. It reminds me of Steve Job's
| commencement speech at Stanford.
|
| > Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can
| only connect them looking backward. So you have to trust that
| the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust
| in something -- your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This
| approach has never let me down, and it has made all the
| difference in my life.
| redlock wrote:
| Until it killed him (ignoring doctors advice on cancer)
| jamieplex wrote:
| Lol, yeah, there is that...
| giantrobot wrote:
| He had an inoperable cancer and wanted to spend his
| remaining time doing what he wanted rather than sitting in
| a hospital getting ultimately fruitless treatments.
| Pancreatic cancer doesn't fuck around. It's not like he
| died of pneumonia because he loved sleeping outdoors in the
| rain.
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| What? That's not at all the case. The type of cancer that
| Jobs has could be surgically removed. He spent time
| receiving alternative treatments and delayed his surgery.
|
| > Jobs had a rare form of the cancer, known as
| neuroendocrine cancer, which grows more slowly and is
| easier to treat
|
| > GEP-NETs are slow growing tumors that have the
| potential to be cured surgically if the tumor is removed
| prior to metastasis.
|
| > Many journalists mentioned and even focused on Jobs'
| initial decision to forego conventional treatments and
| instead use complementary and alternative medical (CAM)
| therapies, including acupuncture, botanicals, and dietary
| changes.
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/pancreatic-
| cancer...
|
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4924574/
| lenocinor wrote:
| Agreed, but it's remarkable how well this approach worked
| for him till then. No approach can solve every problem. I
| wonder if this one, on balance, was the right one for him,
| or for others.
| bentt wrote:
| So, while I do not agree with everything Jordan Peterson says (or
| even most), his writing/speaking about "take responsibility for
| something meaningful" is good advice.
|
| You want freedom, but that is a freedom to choose. It is not an
| end goal to never choose anything.
| anonshadow wrote:
| Bro sold a screen recorder plug-in for large amount of money. Now
| sad he is not Elon Musk. Existential crisis ensues.
| VectorLock wrote:
| Then feels qualified to tackle government waste via Signal
| channels.
| dannykwells wrote:
| Time to find a long term partner and have / adopt / take care of
| kids.
|
| No joke. I've seen it work wonders for providing meaning to many,
| including multiple rich-beyond-belief founders.
| rgmerk wrote:
| FFS.
|
| Write Wikipedia articles. Volunteer at a charity. Go and do a PhD
| in whatever field takes your fancy. Take up auto racing. Learn an
| instrument. Have children.
|
| The writer is in the incredibly fortunate position of being able
| to do whatever he damn well pleases, at an age where he is still
| physically able to do whatever he damn well pleases.
|
| I find it very difficult to sympathise.
| AI_beffr wrote:
| having a lot of money is crazy because there is literally nothing
| to do. there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. if you
| sit around all day then people who work at local restaurants will
| start to know you and people here and there will start to
| recognize you from wandering around between your haunts every
| day. its such a weird feeling when you realize that the world
| isnt as big as you thought it was. before having total freedom,
| you image that even a single metro like sf bay area is enough to
| swallow you up. its not. the reason it feels so big is because
| your are busy all the time. and the same goes for the entire
| world. theres nothing to do here unless you are busy with
| something. traveling and gawking at stuff is not going to get you
| very far. that is the terrible and insane reality of life. that
| life is an illusion. this is part of the reason why so many
| people buckle under the apparently feather-weight pressure of
| having lots of money. the other reason is that your sense of
| identity and self-worth becomes tied to your money. you find
| yourself completely unable to ask for a lower price, balk at a
| price or decide to not buy something if there are other people
| around. because after all you have the money. except nobody has
| enough money to behave like that. 60M would evaporate very
| quickly under someone who did not recognize and correct this
| effect. this is why so many rich people are so comically cheap.
| they have to be because you lose the ability to think rationally,
| to thread the needle. you have to just shamelessly be cheap.
|
| elon musk said "vacation kills." hes one hundred percent correct.
| when you feel totally free you stop thinking in terms of how to
| protect yourself and begin to explore all possibilities in an
| unconstrained way. i dont have to be at work on monday so why not
| climb a mountain? why not go on safari? why not try this designer
| drug? logic could save you but without the impulse to protect
| your fragile life, not everyone is logical enough to sail those
| waters. i almost killed myself twice before i learned it.
|
| the strange and absolutely unambiguous truth about life is that
| there is no such thing as not working. you must always be
| working. it doesnt matter how much money you have. the only way
| to live a good and satisfying life is to work and have enough at
| stake that you are afraid of failing. it is better to risk losing
| your money or even your life rather than stop working.
| dominicrose wrote:
| Society doesn't put money into some people's hands so that they
| use it to buy big shiny boats. Society trusts some people with
| money because they use it well. I also think that not using it
| is OK because it's a virtual thing anyway, so focusing on other
| aspects of life - like running a farm for example - is an
| option.
| randomopining wrote:
| I mean if you develop good hobbies or sports that are never
| ending like running, you can run yourself physically tired
| everyday which will help a lot.
| tehjoker wrote:
| what about just buying houses for homeless people
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| One option not mentioned is to find fulfillment in helping others
| -- not "helping people making $200K be even more efficient" or
| "fixing the US government by making it more efficient (mostly by
| firing a bunch of people, which helps who exactly?)" but people
| who __actually__ need help -- and there is a very very wide
| spectrum to work with there of all types of needs. The freedom to
| deeply engage with that from some angle -- without having the
| burden of having to also make or earn money while doing so -- is
| a huge privilege.
| ookblah wrote:
| I don't know anything about his situation, but I will say one of
| the lamest things ever when breaking up is to say it's not you,
| it's me heh. I mean that's probably something everyone hears face
| to face and I get it, nobody wants to hurt someones feelings to
| give their "real" reason when what's done is done, but to see it
| articulated on a blog post as some kind transparent confession is
| a little surprising.
|
| Like unless maybe you were going thru some massive event that was
| very clearly damaging to your relationship (drugs, abuse, etc),
| the optics of finding yourself to end a seemingly great
| relationship after selling a company for mega millions isn't
| going to jive with a lot of people. But the again I guess that's
| the point of the post, there is no point or purpose. Alright,
| taking off my judgement hat now.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Isn't that true though? It's not like _she_ wanted to break up,
| so it 's him, not her, whatever the actual reasons he had.
| ookblah wrote:
| it's more about the reasons, not who is initiating it or
| wants it. in any case, i find more often it's just a generic
| line that people use when breaking up to spare the other
| party some grief. otherwise it ends up with the other person
| thinking about what they could have done differently to
| "keep" the other person.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hmm, I feel like it might be something like "I have
| problems with you, but you have none with me. I have enough
| respect for you that I don't think there's anything wrong
| with the way you see things, but don't want to keep going
| with those different viewpoints?" with an addendum that "I
| don't necessarily want to force you to change." which leads
| to not saying anything about what those issues are?
| Potentially because those issues are things you don't
| actually want to utter, like "I can't bring myself to
| believe you aren't with me for my money."
| ookblah wrote:
| i mean in the end, barring some big issue like addiction
| or something that's actively harming the relationship,
| often times you just aren't compatible. maybe you fell
| out of love or had different priorities. whatever the
| reason is, it's over, one or both parties don't want to
| try anymore, which is fine. if people want to go over the
| details as some kind of post-mortem sometimes that's
| appreciated but other times yeah, it's something you
| probably shouldn't say and it just makes the hurt worse.
|
| i guess my slight issue with the post was just that he
| posted it for all the world to see as some kind of honest
| self-reflection when to me it was just some throwaway
| line. i know he didn't even intend for it to be anything
| so in the end it's whatever.
| drawkward wrote:
| The insufferable derision of "NPC Coworkers."
|
| How about you use some of that fuck you money and go buy a soul,
| asshole?
|
| I will never have $60M, but I will also never not have a soul.
| vcryan wrote:
| Wow.Poor baby!
| louwrentius wrote:
| Ok so this is what strikes me: he dumps his girlfriend and runs
| away to a mountain he humblebrags about climbing without
| training.
|
| He talks about people as NPCs.
|
| Maybe the only real thing in life is good relationships with
| other people, odly enough.
|
| Now you have all this money and nobody to share it with? Where
| are your friends and family?
|
| Now that the whole world knows you're rich you'll never know if
| they really like 'you' or just your money.
| matthest wrote:
| The purpose of life is ultimately to acquire _internal_
| resources.
|
| First, hunter-gatherer internal resources (we are all still
| hunter gatherers after all, biologically speaking). The kind that
| makes you a capable hunter, i.e. the ability to acquire
| food/goods:
|
| - Self-confidence - Self-belief - Patience - Ability to acquire
| new skills - Charisma/EQ - Ability to succeed in society and on
| earth
|
| Then, the qualities preached in religion:
|
| - Peace - Love - Kindness - A teaching and empathetic heart
| towards others - Compassion, etc.
|
| Once you've acquired these things, you will no longer be afraid
| of death. Because you will have accomplished what you were born
| to do.
|
| TLDR: Study the qualities that martial arts masters have. Because
| they are the people most at peace with death, which likely means
| they have accomplished what they were born to do. Then, acquire
| those qualities. Finally, teach others those qualiites.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I'm not rich, but I have enough to live out my days [humbly], and
| leave something to my daughter.
|
| But I get to write code, Every. Single. Day. Code that _I_ want
| to write, the way that _I_ want to work, at the Quality level
| that _I_ want to deliver.
|
| That's heaven.
|
| I would not be here, if I had been able to find work, after
| leaving my last company at 55. So, I guess being frozen out of
| the tech industry is maybe the best thing that has happened to
| me. It was the kind of thing I wouldn't have known was possible,
| until I was forced into it.
|
| But I wouldn't turn down a few extra mil. It's just that I don't
| think the fox is worth the chase.
| sccomps wrote:
| Instead of engaging with others, you should've just stayed bold
| (or in your own words - foolish) and started the robotics
| company, pouring in whatever money you could. Sometimes other
| people are unintentionally demoralizing. Who cares if you're
| burning through your own cash? In a few years, it might just turn
| into something big.
| snapplebobapple wrote:
| nobody realizes it but this is an ad for having kids. if he had
| kids they would have helped him not be such a little bitch and
| continue doing productive things. when you are an evolutionary
| dead end you have the curse of excess productivity rather than
| the joy of investing in the future.
| binarymax wrote:
| Not to judge or sound condescending, but it seems like you're
| lacking empathy and a community.
|
| I know exactly what I'd do in your situation: help others. I live
| in a small city, and it has some problems and some opportunities.
| Even lacking funds I still do what I can to help the community
| around me. Spend some time with people who aren't all in tech or
| on the beach and go find some reality. People like elon preaching
| doge are too far removed. Work on the ground. It's hard and it's
| real.
|
| Best of luck!
| paxys wrote:
| This guy perfectly represents Silicon Valley as a whole. I have
| no doubt that 70%+ of techies here would follow a similar path
| (call coworkers NPCs, break up with GF, live out Elon fantasy,
| pretend to do important/smart things but give up and move on to
| the next every few weeks) if given unlimited money.
| Aeolun wrote:
| If you have limited contact with coworkers outside of work,
| aren't they NPCs? For all intents and purposes they might be.
| You might still like them, but they don't really affect your
| life aside from giving you quests.
| binarymax wrote:
| Referring to anyone as an NPC is really insulting. People
| are not algorithms in a video game. They are real and they
| have lives and dreams and hopes and problems. Show some
| respect.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| 100% this. Calling others NPCs is the same type of
| psychology as the people you meet who complain about how
| everyone in their life - parents, spouse, friends,
| coworkers is a jerk...
| porknubbins wrote:
| Then complain that they are lonely. One common trait of I
| have seen in those with good people skills, even those
| who use them for bad like pushy salesmen, is that they
| know how to treat people as if they matter simply because
| they are people.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Yes, and I think the percentage of the population with
| these abilities is diminishing over time. People are too
| used to having their interactions intermediated by
| screens.
| upghost wrote:
| I couldn't agree more. Even tho I am in fact an NPC it is
| quite jarring to hear.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Given the context (him not wanting to stay with the
| acquiring company), I'm pretty sure he was referring to
| the large number of people at big companies who don't
| seem to do anything, but get in the way.
|
| I think most people who work at Big Co's have their share
| of meetings where half a dozen people attend regularly,
| but have never said a word and you have no idea what they
| actually do. Those are the "NPCs" he's referring to.
| randmeerkat wrote:
| > I think most people who work at Big Co's have their
| share of meetings where half a dozen people attend
| regularly, but have never said a word and you have no
| idea what they actually do. Those are the "NPCs" he's
| referring to.
|
| Have you considered that those "NPCs" have no idea what
| you do..?
| khazhoux wrote:
| I wouldn't care if they know what I do, as long as they
| do something actually productive.
|
| You may disagree, but the "NPC" comment comes from the
| widespread belief that it's easy for low-performers to
| stick around at big companies, versus at smaller
| companies that live and die by their burn rate.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Especially at Atlassian.
| randmeerkat wrote:
| > ... widespread belief that it's easy for low-
| performers...
|
| The truth is that most high performers do menial busy
| work that doesn't impact real bottom lines either.
| Everyone sits around doing things knowing that their job
| doesn't need to exist and rather than call out the
| madness of a society focused on busywork for the
| appearance of "productivity" everyone just rips on each
| other instead... Society could use a lot more empathy and
| a lot less fear.
| ryandrake wrote:
| It's still pretty condescending. Don't know what
| someone's role is, but assume he doesn't do anything? Him
| calling other people "NPCs" is a pretty clear sign that
| he thinks he's the Main Character.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Not only that he's the main character but that they
| aren't actual humans who have their own experience and
| life and that it might even be ok to run them over with
| your car as long as you hide in the bushes for a few
| minutes after or get your car a new paint job.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I could say the same thing about the NPCs in a video game
| and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, because
| they wouldn't share any of their lives, hopes and dreams
| with you at any point.
|
| Sure, people (probably) have their own lives; but
| believing this and being able to actually tell are two
| completely different things.
|
| I dunno, there's something about the way you responded
| that rubs me entirely the wrong way. You seem to take my
| comment and then take the worst, instead of most generous
| interpretation of it. I posed a hypothetical, and it
| seems like you accuse me of considering every person in
| the world an NPC.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Calling even a single human being a NPC is completely
| dehumanizing and disgusting behavior. Think about the
| implications of the words!
| sanderjd wrote:
| Maybe instead of "the way you responded rubs me the wrong
| way", you could consider thinking "maybe I wrote my
| comment the wrong way".
|
| What you said, both in your original comment and in this
| follow up, demonstrates a demented way of viewing other
| people.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I'd go a step further and say that I find it an extremely
| scary trend to call people NPCs. It's extremely
| dehumanizing and dehumanization always comes before acts
| of extreme violence. How many gamers treat actual NPCs in
| video games only furthers this.
| Animats wrote:
| I _implement_ NPCs, and I treat them respectfully.
| Someday soon, they may be smarter or more powerful than I
| am.
|
| One of my NPCs has a T-shirt that says "Trainee" on the
| front, and "Someday, we'll be in charge" on the back.
| bustodisgusto wrote:
| While what you are saying is true, it's a very unhealthy
| and inhuman way to view other people. I generally find this
| outlook is a sign of depression. It was for me at least
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| It's not true at all, why in the world would you
| capitulate that?
| Aeolun wrote:
| Because you can't tell from the outside? You can only
| choose to believe everyone else is like you based on what
| you observe.
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| That's an insane way to approach the world. I wish I
| didn't know you thought that way.
| bustodisgusto wrote:
| Truth is subjective and perspective is reality. These
| views are technically correct when approached from fist
| principles. the side effect of actually internalizing
| them is viewing people as NPCs
| kaikai wrote:
| You are not the main character in some narrative. We are
| all individuals interacting with each other, and if you
| lose sight of that it's very easy to make selfish and
| immoral choices.
| steveBK123 wrote:
| Calling people NPCs is a self-own and speaks to a persons
| inability to consider that everyone around them has some
| inner life, after work interests, etc. You don't need
| contact with coworkers outside of work to realize this. You
| just need to be a functioning decent human being able to
| make small talk.
| sanderjd wrote:
| No, they are people, because they are people.
|
| I'm sorry, but quite frankly, _what in the world are you
| talking about_?
| rokhayakebe wrote:
| From his bio:
|
| _i invest in companies and am willing to offer help to
| founders i vibe with for free and for no allocation_
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| that doesn't have much to do with either empathy or community
|
| it reflects more something like "I will share my pearls of
| wisdom with those I deem worthy" (ego trip)
| khazhoux wrote:
| Where exactly do you see the ego tripping? He's literally
| saying he'll offer his advice to people who may want it,
| with nothing expected in return.
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| What help? He got lucky. Is he going to give someone his
| rabbit's foot?
| titanomachy wrote:
| Absolutely. Humans need real connection with other humans.
| Ending your one good relationship to join forces with a bunch
| of autistic internet trolls who think they're smarter than
| everyone else is not a recipe for happiness.
| colanderman wrote:
| Please don't use the word "autistic" as a slur.
| titanomachy wrote:
| Ok. I can't edit the comment now, but I will avoid it in
| the future.
|
| I was echoing the use in TFA, but that doesn't really make
| it any better.
| bdangubic wrote:
| what colanderman said...
| davesque wrote:
| Thank you for saying what I didn't have the patience to say.
| Although I sincerely worry that empathizing with people like
| this is a trap. I hate that I have to think this way, but
| nothing is worse than feeling like a sucker. I only hope I'm
| elevated above all of this in the afterlife.
| taberiand wrote:
| Empathy is about understanding people from their perspective.
| I would think that highly empathic people would be harder to
| scam, as they would recognise the con artists for what they
| are.
| holmesworcester wrote:
| The trouble is, if you think in abstract terms at all
| you'll start seeing the patterns in the reasons many people
| are suffering, and the patterns in your relationship to
| them.
|
| Then you'll have to ratchet up boundaries to address the
| relational patterns with people who are having a hard time,
| so that you're not a participant in their suffering.
|
| And you'll have to start working on the patterns underneath
| the problems, which when you get into it starts to look
| more and more like the kind of megalomaniacal moonshot
| ("give computers arms and legs" / "fix the government
| now!") that the author ran out of gas on.
|
| I think where you end up if you think about this is just
| recognizing that a) you probably should try to do some
| ambitious, high-leverage project to make the world better
| and b) reflecting about the world and about life in a
| thorough way is emotionally difficult for most people, so
| you also have to deal with those emotions.
|
| The author's original somewhat manic intentions were
| probably right, and maybe he needed a bit more of a rest
| but was plowing forward out of fear that he'd lose his
| nerve. Now he's getting some rest and will probably figure
| out something big, important, and hard to work on in the
| next few years.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| The barriers/boundaries thing I think is interesting.
|
| I've never really been able to identify with this sort of
| "make money and then fix the world" stuff because I feel
| that everyone hugely simplifies every issue and looks
| only at first or maybe second order effects.
|
| You fix malaria/give to the poor/raise the minimum
| wage/etc. Cool, now we have a wealthier population with
| more people doing more stuff to modify the environment.
| We accelerate biosphere collapse and global warming. Do
| not pass Go, do not collect $200.
|
| I think that if you're being truly logical about these
| things you could just as easily come up with a grand
| solution that's something like drawing a graph of social
| connections from you, go out a few layers, and then press
| the button to delete everyone else on the planet and
| rewild most of it. Or go back in time and don't discover
| oil (or was the suffering of the pre-industrial era
| worse? maybe it was, probably it was...!).
|
| I don't think I'd be chosen to go to Elysium but I can't
| really see the logical flaw in the argument either. Why
| should the super rich care about the rest? Move forward a
| few years/decades; why should superintelligent AI care
| about humans? We don't care about mosquitoes.
|
| Making a company that makes a prettier table or a faster
| car or whatever feels like it's directly solving a
| problem. Making a company that aims to "improve the
| world" just seems like a fool's errand to me, second law
| of thermo, that sort of thing.
|
| Big waffle.
| SpaceLawnmower wrote:
| Raising the standard of living for the poorest people in
| the world does very little to increase the rate of
| climate change since these people have very little impact
| on the environment and consume so little in the first
| place. I'd argue that we also owe it to them because the
| poor are also least capable to handle the consequences of
| climate change and the other issues facing developing
| nations. I don't know why this needs to be said but those
| are real issues.
|
| The flaw in Elysium is moral and practical. You have to
| accept that humans by virtue of being human deserve some
| consideration, and the well being of society deserves
| consideration. If a rich person don't believe this then
| they are irresponsible. Too much inequality in society
| makes it shittier for everybody for plenty of reasons.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| Nonsense, you're engaging in first order thinking as I
| stated.
|
| China is a great counterexample of this, or just the life
| story of anyone who goes from rags to riches.
|
| You may as well say that a broken down car has no
| emissions so let's fix it. Once you fix it it does.
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| Many people con others into giving their emotional
| currency. Rich people are the worst about this, because
| it's the only value from the world they've failed to
| actually extract. So they want it from everyone.
|
| Rich people have problems. This dude is clearly focused on
| himself. He doesn't need the emotional currency of others
| unless he's willing to give a lot more his (love and
| empathy).
| khazhoux wrote:
| > Although I sincerely worry that empathizing with people
| like this is a trap
|
| What exactly is "people like this"? I thought this was a very
| genuine account from a regular person who worked hard, made a
| ton of money from it, and now finds that the money didn't
| give him the satisfaction he expected. It's honest and,
| frankly, extremely unsurprising and straightforward.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| Well, for one, categorizing the people he'd have to work
| with at Atlassian as "NPC Coworkers"
| actuallyalys wrote:
| > Although I sincerely worry that empathizing with people
| like this is a trap.
|
| I have a similar sense. However, I'm not sure empathizing
| with them is itself the trap. You don't want your empathy to
| make you overly credulous. For example, while you might
| empathize with him feeling directionless at the acquiring
| company, I don't think you should therefore conclude that he
| is right about the new coworkers being "NPCs."
| fsckboy wrote:
| to reference/recommend this book, I swiped a blurb from a ddg
| search:
|
| Against Empathy: The Case for Rational Compassion is a 2016
| book written by psychologist Paul Bloom. The book draws on the
| distinctions between empathy, compassion, and moral decision
| making. Bloom argues that empathy is not the solution to
| problems that divide people and is a poor guide for decision
| making.
| keb_ wrote:
| This person is in a completely different class than 99% of HN
| readers. It is impossible for him to ever relate to others who
| are not like him because he is not like them, and not like us,
| the non-millionaire non-entrepeneurs. Unfortunately, this goes
| both ways, and is probably why I am not rich. Learning to
| bridge that human gap is far harder than becoming a multi-
| millionaire or climbing mountains in the Himalayas or working
| for DOGE for 4 weeks.
| mmoustafa wrote:
| I am hearing you say "why can't I be normal and do insignificant
| things" while calling the people who do "NPC coworkers"
|
| And that is your internal struggle my friend
| titanomachy wrote:
| Yeah this is the part that makes him sound like an out-of-touch
| asshole. I think it's impossible to be happy if you hate
| ordinary people this much.
|
| Maybe go meditate or hike and disconnect from twitter for a
| couple months, then take a volunteer position at a local food
| bank.
| mmoustafa wrote:
| learn to love your insignificant self
| adamredwoods wrote:
| I've always had philanthropic ideas that I will never be able to
| do, because I do not have the funds or the time. Metastatic
| cancer and alzheimers, on a cellular level, is an obvious
| pursuit. I would educate myself and get involved. I want to make
| a difference in the world, and not by monetary measures.
| alfor wrote:
| What you are chasing is your god or a spiritual quest.
|
| As you don't have a conception of a global god on top of all the
| other you swing from one to another: finding myself, doing hard,
| things, robotics, climate change, girlfriend, pleasure, etc.
|
| Those can all be good things, but they are not the top thing.
|
| "You will have no other god beside me"
|
| The central God is you idea of good, the things beyond your
| reach.
|
| You keep your girlfriend, she become your wife and you have kids.
| You can climb montains but it doesn't need to be himalaya, etc.
| Maybe your big thing will still end up around physics Everything
| in it's place. In the proper amount.
|
| Now if you loose one thing it's not the end of your world.
|
| This keep you centered and avoid the crazy swings.
|
| As we can see in this tale, his god was the startup or money.
| Once he had more than enought no motivation was left, he killed
| his god and had to find another one. This happen to a lot of
| people that reach their goal, instead of being happy they are
| emotionaly destroyed.
|
| I hope this is clear and can help others.
| raincom wrote:
| Go and meditate in order to find out 'I' and 'mine'.
| rc_kas wrote:
| if this dude needs a hard task, can you please solve a way to fix
| whatever is broken in america. counter the republican propaganda
| machine somehow.
| mayneack wrote:
| > I was added to a number of Signal groups and immediately put to
| work.
|
| Not a ringing endorsement for DOGE's accountability and record
| keeping practices.
| mrshadowgoose wrote:
| Although I've done quite well for myself, I'm not remotely near
| this level of wealth, so my insight and advice is likely just
| plain wrong.
|
| Building on an analogy you used, you've let society dictate your
| "unattainable main quest", but then actually managed to attain
| it, losing your core sense of purpose in the process.
|
| So pick a new unattainable main quest and internalize it, before
| proceeding with your life.
|
| Easier said than done of course. You're fighting to replace a
| goal that was repeatedly forced into you from the early days of
| your conscious existence. How hard this will be comes down to
| your individual mental composition. It might be impossible. It
| might be easy and just require willful thought on your part.
| There are probably therapists that specialize in exactly this
| kind of situation.
|
| Good luck!
| esharte wrote:
| Buy some empathy
| matrix87 wrote:
| A few million is workable, but 60 million is a scarlet letter.
| Good luck finding someone who doesn't want their cut of it
| aabhay wrote:
| > Makes a bunch of money
|
| > tries to be Elon Musk
|
| > Breaks up with girlfriend
|
| > joins DOGE (to not be like Elon...?)
|
| > Mentions repeatedly the desire to not be cringe
|
| Sounds like a cringey Elon fantasy despite the self awareness
| bschwindHN wrote:
| Goddamn, this is peak tech bro performance art.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Help and support others who actually have a vision.
|
| If I didn't have to think about money I'd work on inventing
| Skynet. No, this is not a joke. I'm dead-serious.
| tgtweak wrote:
| It's kind of like using an infinite money cheat in a game - it's
| a guaranteed way to get bored of it quickly.
| thrance wrote:
| My advice would be to touch grass maybe? Learn pottery or
| something, there's more to life than hoarding wealth. Read Camus.
| And if that money really is a burden, you can always donate most
| of it away.
|
| Sorry for the vitriol, but I honestly lost all respect for OP
| after he mentioned joining DOGE. Working with oligarchs towards
| enacting austerity when you won't suffer from it makes me not
| care that much about how vacuous you feel your existence is.
| mihaic wrote:
| I think that a lot of people with money need to be reminded that
| having wealth is a social responsibility in itself. If you can
| live just from passive income maybe you should just gift
| interesting people the excess money and have them accomplish
| their goals.
|
| Talk to a bunch of people and realize what you want to support.
| If some of them need 10k to start a business just give it to
| them. Or, if you want some equity, put it in a non-profit that
| reinvest its earnings. Go to a film school, organize a contest
| and fund the movie of the most promising students.
|
| I was never rich like the author, yet I once gave a bookbinder
| that I had hired to make a cool leather-bound book the starting
| capital he needed to make his own shop just because it turned out
| so well and he was so passionate about it. Looking back, it still
| feels great to have helped someone like this.
|
| Humans need activities that produce meaningful outcomes, they
| don't need careers or work.
| holmesworcester wrote:
| To me, the above paragraph reads like:
|
| "Having wealth makes you responsible to others, therefore you
| should do arson."
|
| If you manage to help make a powerful machine and then convert
| some piece of it into liquid value, you are probably good at
| stuff and whatever responsibility you have to others _includes
| using that_ alongside the liquid value.
|
| And worse, it's not just on you to do what people say they
| want. You're also actually responsible for trying to figure out
| what they would find most valuable. ("If I had asked people
| what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.")
| lukev wrote:
| This is pure capitalist brainworms.
|
| And I say this as someone who's not even particularly anti-
| capitalist.
| holmesworcester wrote:
| It's an unpopular opinion for sure.
|
| Try to think about it in less capitalist terms. Say you
| built the world's first bicycle and can now move faster /
| more efficiently than anyone else.
|
| What is the most likely thing that will happen if you give
| the bicycle away to the person who appears to need it the
| most and go do something else? (One broken bicycle.)
|
| On the flip side, isn't the most important thing you can
| work on something like, "figure out how to make a bicycle--
| and maintenance supply chain--for everyone who wants one"?
| lukev wrote:
| The OP's whole point is that he has money, not ideas.
| Plus, in your example, you could literally do both. Plus,
| money is not the same thing as IP or creativity. Plus,
| the post you were responding to was literally advocating
| giving the money to the people with ideas of how to do
| good for the world.
|
| There may or may not be a moral imperative to give away
| excess wealth, but there damn sure isn't any moral
| imperative to keep it.
| holmesworcester wrote:
| If we take the post at face value, OP is saying that he
| has _too many_ ideas (robots! DOGE!) to have conviction
| around any, which is a pretty normal predicament for
| founders.
|
| He also has a track record of having an idea, figuring
| out how to make the idea useful to others, and turning
| that into a self-sustaining machine.
|
| All of these are much more important than an idea alone.
|
| As everybody here knows, just having an idea for, say, an
| app is of very limited value. The trick is being able to
| mold the idea into what people actually want it to be,
| and find some model that lets you and them split the
| value, so the work can continue. The same is true in any
| kind of political or social activity. Ideas are almost
| worthless.
|
| As in software, people who are capable of actually
| executing on their ideas for making the world better are
| almost always also capable of getting the funding they
| need, one way or another. People are always the
| bottleneck, not funding. (Ask anyone who runs a grant
| program about how hard it is to find effective people to
| give to.)
|
| Sure, if OP runs into an extremely skilled world-changer
| with a great track record he should donate 10-50k and
| introduce the person to some other post-exit friends. But
| will that skilled and effective person find funding
| whether he donates or not? Definitely.
|
| The post I was responding to was advocating for giving
| money to people with an idea for how to make the world
| better who would otherwise never be able to do it.
|
| The existence of such people is almost a myth.
|
| They do exist, but they're impossible to find in the
| haystack of people who are guaranteed to fail at
| executing their idea. If you look for people with ideas
| for making the world better who aren't doing them because
| they don't have the money, and give them money, nothing
| will happen. That's arson.
|
| Also, in my example, you can't really do both. The most
| efficient system for getting a bicycle to everyone who
| needs one will involve selling the bicycles. Without
| capturing some of the value of the bicycles you're
| making, you'll never be able to make as many.
| mihaic wrote:
| You're making a strong implication that the companies that
| make money are the things that people need. The correlation
| seems to be growing weaker every year as far as I've seen.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Is your point that the money should go to companies that
| make things that people need as opposed to want? Or is your
| point that the money somehow flows to companies that make
| things that people neither need nor want?
| bbddg wrote:
| Imagine doing something with money that isn't investing
| in a for profit company.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| That feels like a non-segueter given the comment I was
| responding to
| mihaic wrote:
| > Or is your point that the money somehow flows to
| companies that make things that people neither need nor
| want?
|
| It's this second one.
| bccdee wrote:
| > If you manage to help make a powerful machine and then
| convert some piece of it into liquid value, you are probably
| good at stuff
|
| Not at all. Nobody is "good at stuff" in general. People have
| particular areas of competence at best. Disasters arise when
| someone who has achieved success off the back of one
| particular skill set assumes they have general competence at
| everything and then makes leadership decisions from a
| position of blind arrogance.
|
| If you manage to help make a powerful machine, you are
| probably a good machinist. This does not mean you should
| become a CEO or a venture capitalist or some other sort of
| "value decider." Your skill is in making powerful machines.
| If you want to move into a new field, you have to do so as a
| beginner.
| gehwartzen wrote:
| Really beautifully said. Wealth does indeed carry the
| responsibility of giving back to your community the same way
| the community gave to you to gain the wealth to begin with.
|
| Bettering your community not only benefits the receiver but
| also, I strongly believe, one's own conscious and sense of
| belonging to said community.
| teleforce wrote:
| > Humans need activities that produce meaningful outcomes, they
| don't need careers or work.
|
| Human needs purpose in life, does not matter whether it
| activities for meaningful outcomes, careers, work, family or
| God, it's in our very nature.
|
| The blog post appeared to me of someone who have achieved
| mostly what they have aspired to become (rich and freedom from
| jobs) and at their top apex from their own perspective, however
| the main dilemma is that after achieving the goals still
| something important is missing i.e. purpose.
| mihaic wrote:
| > Human needs purpose in life
|
| Not sure if I agree with it in this form, as I think people
| can get by quite well without an explicit purpose. My
| grandparents were farmers, and I've never pictured them to
| feel any specific purpose. They were still content with their
| lives, as they simply didn't even considered the question of
| what their purpose was.
|
| Modern success is all about fixating on a single measurable
| goal, and grinding that out. What if there is no single
| purpose but rather a diffuse set of meanings? Even worse,
| half the battle is you figuring out what this set of
| meaningful goals is, where before the goal was given to you
| (make lots of money).
| dilawar wrote:
| My grandmother lacked vocabulary that can be used to
| describe 'purpose' -- or mental issues. One word she would
| very rarely use was 'dharma' i.e. duty. Though I am not
| sure if she used it in this way.
|
| There were only a few things she really cared about: the
| health and general well-being of her children and
| grandchildren and when her grandchildren will have
| children. It seems to me it was her 'purpose', at least she
| values these things so much that can be easily confused as
| purpose.
| FabHK wrote:
| Sorry, as a farmer you have a very clearly defined purpose
| (and it might be more implicit than explicitly said out
| loud, but it's very clear nevertheless). And that's to make
| sure that you have enough to eat for your family and your
| animals, and enough to sell, and enough seed for next year.
|
| That's why there's no ruminating for a purpose - it never
| comes up, because it's so clear. And that's why we're often
| quite rudderless once the basics are secured.
| LocalH wrote:
| Why do we need purpose beyond existence? We're here to
| experience a unique life that nobody else will experience, no
| matter how many commonalities are shared. Yet people are
| never content with that, and feel they must have a "greater"
| purpose, when reality is that there is no greater purpose
| than mere existence.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Honestly for some people, just getting debt paid off might be
| enough of a life changer, in some cases the debt isn't
| substantial but the income / debt ratio is just not in the best
| spot. Heck having one or more less bills to worry about could
| be a tide changer with immense impact.
|
| I know if I could worry less about my mortgage even for a few
| months, it would have major impacts on my family's life. I
| cannot imagine others on similar situations, or with way more
| debt but the income isn't enough.
| RogerL wrote:
| > having wealth is a social responsibility in itself
|
| Warren Buffet has said that every dollar he owns is an IOU that
| he owes to society - somebody worked hard, produced value, he
| is in custody of it for the time being, but it has to be paid
| back by him.
| robocat wrote:
| Can your find the quote?
|
| Are you sure he wasn't talking about money invested with his
| company or shareholders?
| sho wrote:
| > having wealth is a social responsibility in itself
|
| We even have a word for this, _noblesse oblige_. It used to
| refer to the aristocracy, but I don 't see much difference
| between the aristocracy of old and the moneyed classes of
| today.
| holmesworcester wrote:
| What about being smart?
|
| If you're smart you regularly walk through life seeing people
| hurt each other by letting screwed-up systems fester.
|
| Even if you're really callous and rational about opportunity
| cost, you can only walk by so many systemic-equivalents of
| burning buildings before you're eventually like, "damn it,
| okay I'm going to save this kid but _just this once_ ".
|
| Being smart and systems-aware in today's world is like
| walking by a burning building every day with very long,
| fireproof arms. "Noblesse" is the wrong word but something
| like this is a thing. _Mathiness oblige_?
| fsckboy wrote:
| > _need to be reminded that having wealth is a social
| responsibility in itself_
|
| read up on the "is-ought problem": from whatever is, you cannot
| get an ought nor a should. You simply have to adopt them as
| beliefs, just like belief in a diety (though some might argue
| that's an "is" :) and others may not share your beliefs, nor...
| should... they
| mihaic wrote:
| I'm not sure what you mean. I do believe this is essentially
| a value judgement, but one which I think is essential for any
| well functioning society, at least based on my personal
| interpretation.
| keybored wrote:
| No. He wanted to help DOGE dismantle the US government. People
| like that should just blow their money on themselves and the
| people they like and leave the rest of us alone.
| bustodisgusto wrote:
| Man if tech bros could pull their head out of their asses for one
| second and value an opinion of someone who was not themselves (or
| Elon). They would find that this feeling is perhaps the best
| documented feeling in philosophy.
|
| A man's search for meaning is perhaps the best book on a cure for
| this affliction. I have a hard time taking seriously people who
| believe their problems are unique
| the_cat_kittles wrote:
| you have a lack of purpose, sorry buddy but finding one is a
| life's work. you'll never fully admit it even if you write blog
| posts like this, but you basically got fooled. happens to lots of
| people
| mmustapic wrote:
| Wait, so the Department Of Government Efficiency spent time and
| money recruiting a millionaire who left after just 4 weeks? Talk
| about inefficiency...
| monroeclinton wrote:
| You should chill for a few years and really consider the meaning
| of your money.
| thret wrote:
| All the rich kids these days seem to be in to a healthy diet,
| exercise, and stable relationships. Whatever happened to harems,
| drugs and gambling?
| djaouen wrote:
| Give your money to me. I'll put it to good use! Lol
| jsfunfun wrote:
| Ordinary things can be stolen, real ones cannot - Oscar Wilde...
|
| money is not being rich.
| pech0rin wrote:
| This is the most childish thing I've read. And shows a lot about
| he doesn't have any people relying on him or community to
| support. He takes one hike and throws away 60m. Doesn't try to
| find anything interesting to do at Atlassian just calls his
| coworkers NPCs. This is zero-empathy Peter Pan syndrome at its
| worse.
|
| Sad how he just goes adventure hopping to try and find meaning.
| The problem is no matter where you are you are also there. Time
| to look inward and not outward.
| ip26 wrote:
| As a founder, the people relying on him would have been the
| employees at Loom. But now that's done. Far from the first
| story about a founder feeling unmoored after a buyout.
| Pxtl wrote:
| > calls his coworkers NPCs.
|
| Seriously, that's kind of a "fuck you" moment to all the people
| who helped him earn those millions isn't it?
|
| Between this and hanging around with the head-cases at DOGE, I
| think the first thing he should spend his money on is a shrink.
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| To be fair, he was not calling people at Loom NPCs. He was
| saying that he didn't feel like joining a big company
| Atlassian coz he feels he would be surrounded by "NPC
| coworkers" there.
| hackernewds wrote:
| There's absolutely nothing wrong with atlassian employees.
| High and mighty horse he's on there
| hackernewds wrote:
| > So I reached out to some people and got in. After 8
| calls with people who all talked fast and sounded very
| <strike through>autistic</strike through > smart
|
| Dude really sounds like a bozo again, being brutally
| honest is no excuse to be unkind
| david-gpu wrote:
| Yeah, self-described _" brutally honest"_ people lean a
| bit much on the _brutal_ part. You can be direct and
| kind.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| As a proud ex-Atlassian employee, fuck this guy.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| Atlassian presumably also hired a bunch of his people from
| Loom, so to some extent he is implying that all the Loom
| folks became "NPCs" during the acquisition.
|
| I've seen several founders who kept their team together
| within a bigger company after a buyout, and went on to do
| pretty significant projects together with big company
| resources. It's not a given that you have to be swallowed
| up by the bureaucracy
| dorfsmay wrote:
| You forgot:
|
| > So I broke things off after almost 2 years of unconditional
| love.
| bawolff wrote:
| I don't know i agree. I think its brave to be honest about it.
| Being able to acknowledge you don't have it together is the
| first stage of growth.
|
| Most people struggle with meaning, most people don't have it
| figured out.
|
| So what, dude who suddenly fell into massive wealth tried a
| bunch of cliched things to find meaning. Did they work? No,
| these types of cliched things usually don't. However you don't
| find meaning without trying things. You have to fail before you
| suceed.
| m463 wrote:
| It would be interesting to learn what a bunch of people
| actually do with found wealth.
|
| I've read that lottery winners frequently become seriously
| unhappy.
|
| Maybe some of us aren't ultra-rich like this guy, but we
| might deal with some of the same existential issues either
| planning or encountering retirement.
| karmakurtisaani wrote:
| I also thought about lottery winners. I wonder if this guy
| will end up like the Minecraft creator.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| My intuition is that (sudden) wealth causes some amount of
| additional isolation (for different reasons: jealousy,
| privacy, security, etc), so if you are not someone with
| preexisting social bonds _that are strong enough to weather
| that change_ , you're going to ultimately feel emotionally
| worse off once the quick pleasure hits start to fade. If
| you're someone going into that situation without strong
| social bonds, you end up even further isolated.
| vasco wrote:
| Yeah that comment just reads like someone who is pointing
| down at how unenlightened someone is, when that someone just
| finished telling you that they don't know what they are doing
| and being honest about it.
|
| Would it be so much better for the author to hide this phase
| of personal growth, and then later on comment on other
| people's struggles to mock how far they are from them?
| neuronic wrote:
| But both of you can be right. I would not judge the author
| for their attempt to find meaning but it is hard to read
| something like "all coworkers are NPCs" and dehumanizing
| expressions like that.
|
| No, your coworkers are complex human beings with complex
| lives of their own seeking stability and a content life for
| themselves and their families. Blaming people for not always
| maximum pushing and risk taking is very simple minded. It is
| fine to enjoy a content, stable life without aiming for the
| stars all the time. It doesn't block you from being a star
| seeker yourself.
|
| Responsibly raising a family is a massive and tiring task on
| its own but of course you can take the easy way out like Elon
| and delegate "family" to others starting at insemination
| because you burned your brain with drugs and had too many
| conversations with Peter Thiel. Most people don't want that.
|
| And when he mentioned DOGE it was an immediate red flag.
| These people do not care why or for what purpose governments
| exist. They only see the inefficiencies and blockers and fail
| to understand that governments are not profit oriented
| companies. This is pretty much like failing pre-school. These
| folks belong in emotional special needs schools.
| andsoitis wrote:
| > but it is hard to read something like "all coworkers are
| NPCs" and dehumanizing expressions like that.
|
| They did not say that all coworkers are NPCs.
|
| What they said is "I knew that staying at the acquiring
| company was not it for me for the big company reasons you
| might suspect (lots of politics, things moved slowly, NPC
| coworkers, etc.)".
|
| You should read that as "in a big company, there are more
| coworkers who don't do anything useful" rather than "at a
| big company, nobody is doing anything useful".
| bawolff wrote:
| I read it more as - in a big company there are a lot of
| people there just to get a paycheque who don't really
| care.
|
| Which isn't really surprising. That is kind of what a job
| is. Company gives you money in exchange for them telling
| you what to do for a little while. There is a very real
| way where "becoming an npc" for 8 hours a day is what it
| means to be employed for a lot of people. That is not a
| dig at the person; we all need to do what we need to do
| to put food on the table.
| awb wrote:
| Abstracting out the details, it's the same theme as the general
| who wins the war and now there's no war to fight and thinks to
| himself, "Now what?"
|
| There are many people struggling with far greater challenges in
| life and with far less support, but feeling directionless and
| without a purpose is a common struggle that many people go
| through.
| necovek wrote:
| Many "generals" turn to crime because it's largely compatible
| in the way things are achieved, types of rules in place, and
| the rewards (at least here in the Balkans).
|
| Possibly speaks more of the culture I am surrounded with than
| "generals", but maybe not.
| moomin wrote:
| David Stirling, who is currently being lauded in a show on
| BBC One for creating the SAS, spent his later life running
| mercenary companies and, in one particularly ignoble
| episode, organised a coup against the British government.
| shinycode wrote:
| I agree. He could give the money to greater causes and start
| over. That's a challenge worth a post and a read and good use
| of time instead of what he just did.
| SuperHeavy256 wrote:
| it's so easy to point fingers. why don't you do what you're
| telling him to do instead?
| saagarjha wrote:
| Besides the lack of millions of dollars?
| lazide wrote:
| "A man with an empty stomach has one problem. A man with
| a full stomach has 100." - confucius maybe?
| wukerplank wrote:
| Fully agree, and my first association was the "Men Will Do
| Everything But Go to Therapy" meme.
| darthrupert wrote:
| Going to therapy when all your problems are this mundane
| would be like going to open heart surgegy because you
| heartrate got slightly elevated.
|
| People need meaning, not therapy. Meaning used to be provided
| by religion and philosophy. Religion is diminishing and
| philosophy is too difficult.
| Tainnor wrote:
| Depression doesn't care about how mundane your problems
| are. Some people have horrible things happening to them and
| they don't get depressed - while others struggle with
| common setbacks that everyone experiences.
|
| IMHO, the author sounds like he's missing a lot of
| perspective on things, and talking to other people could
| help with that - preferably even in a group setting.
| lazide wrote:
| Philosophy, frankly, also only provides questions, not
| answers.
| ParetoOptimal wrote:
| Therapy is more like a physical trainer but for your brain
| crossed with your primary care doctor, not open heart
| surgery.
| dbtablesorrows wrote:
| What's with this therapy industrial complex?
|
| Men need purpose not some consoling words.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| The purpose of therapy is not "consoling words".
| ParetoOptimal wrote:
| It seems you've not been to a good therapist.
| hylaride wrote:
| Because most men can't admit they need purpose or what's
| lacking. Therapy isn't the cliche of bawling into your
| therapist's shoulders (although it can be that). It's often
| them telling and pointing out to you what others, including
| friends, won't. And an experienced professional can be
| excellent at bringing that out. It's also not for
| everybody, but often the most hostile people to it are the
| ones who'd benefit the most.
|
| From what I've gathered in his post, this guy needs to be
| told he pushes people away and has trouble forming non-
| professional relationships (platonic and romantic) as well
| as as a deep seated desire to be liked, which he can't get
| out of a professional setting that he was at the top of.
| But it could also be much more deep than that.
|
| Of course, finding the right therapist is like finding the
| right mechanical keyboard. You'll go through tons you hate
| before you find the right one.
| FooBarBizBazz wrote:
| Many people, myself included, are skeptical of "therapy" and
| do not automatically consider its practicioners to be
| legitimate authorities. These are people who need a job just
| the same as you, and this is the one they landed in. Whether
| they do anybody any good is hard to say.
|
| One source of skepticism is that they are not really invested
| in you. If you succeed or if you fail, if you're happy or if
| you're sad, what's it really to them? Will they have to live
| with the consequences? At least in a relationship the
| "therapist" maybe "has some shares" in the other person.
| (Granted, you can also reverse the logic, e.g., "my parents
| didn't pay attention to my happiness and just pushed me to
| become a doctor" / "my wife just wanted me to have money
| because she wanted to spend it".) This is also why I am
| skeptical of startup advisors: I'm sure they mean well, but,
| if you really don't know what you're doing, it's probably
| better to be an employee for a while, under a boss who
| succeeds only when you succeed.
|
| Another is that, when I hear therapistic language, a lot
| seems to embed assumptions of omnipresent psychic violence,
| and this disturbs me. Perhaps there are people who truly are
| trapped in situations of "psychological abuse",
| "gaslighting", and so-on, but my sense is that these words
| usually become weapons that people wave around, as they adopt
| darker and darker interpretations of their own, imperfect but
| basically good, relationships. Then the cynic in me says:
| Wouldn't causing people to reject their "organic"
| relationships, create dependence on the relationship with the
| therapist?
|
| That "therapy" grew out of psychology also is grounds for
| caution, to me. There is an underlying manipulativeness in
| the field. Many of the famous experiments, stories of which
| attract students into the field, were quite manipulative.
| Some of the core theories of psychology that you learn in
| school, like operant conditioning, are fairly inhumane. If
| this is the ground that you build on, what kind of structure
| do you get? Who is attracted to the field to begin with?
|
| Also, the very fact that the meme is gendered tells you
| something. Sure, men don't trust therapists, any more than
| college-educated women trust bearded imams. If a whole school
| of thought seems somehow not to be on your side, you're not
| going to trust it. (And I do not mean to imply that to be
| "college-educated" is ideology-neutral, or that the
| hypothetical imam is _not_ actually on the hypothetical woman
| 's side.)
|
| ...
|
| In the context of this blog post, though, I kind of get it.
| The guy literally climbed, if not Everest, then some similar
| peak in the Himalayas. So when you focus on that it's kind of
| funny.
|
| I'm not sure how what he's doing is "wrong" and what other
| thing he could be doing would be "right" though. What is the
| therapist going to tell him to do, and why would that thing
| be superior to climbing mountains at random? Does existential
| angst even have a solution?
|
| ...
|
| Some of the religions have their own answers, which would
| encourage different behavior, I suppose. E.g.:
|
| a.)
|
| > 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
|
| > 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God
| with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy
| mind.
|
| > 38 This is the first and great commandment.
|
| > 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy
| neighbour as thyself.
|
| > 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the
| prophets.
|
| If the author of the blog repeated the second half of verse
| 39 to himself over and over, he might do something different.
| You do pushups, you develop muscles. You repeat mantras, and,
| if those mantras are really meaningful, you can shape your
| own mind.
|
| Or, the works of mercy:
|
| > feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the
| naked, shelter the homeless, care for the sick, visit the
| imprisoned, bury the dead
|
| > admonish the sinner, instruct the ignorant, counsel the
| doubtful, bear wrongs patiently, forgive offenses willingly,
| comfort the afflicted, pray for the living and the dead
|
| Add in Galatians 3:28 and you've got the high points of
| Christianity. If you take the words seriously they can affect
| how you think and what you do: "Right thought, right speech,
| right action".
|
| b.)
|
| I recall also once reading a Jain text and seeing the Ten
| Virtues, and reflecting on them altered my behavior at the
| time, in a positive way. These can be found e.g. here: https:
| //jainworld.jainworld.com/pdf/Ten%20Universal%20Virtue...
|
| One virtue that it emphasized, which is not emphasized to the
| same degree in Christianity, is honesty. Yes, Christianity
| inherits the Ten Commandments (which are actually good), but
| "thou shalt not bear false witness" seems like a somewhat
| more narrow thing. In much the same way that "though shalt
| not kill" is really, debatably, the more limited "though
| shalt not murder". Indeed, Jainism seems to go further than
| Christianity in many respects. Those virtues, by the way, are
| (per the previously-linked text):
|
| > 1. Uttama Kshama - Supreme Forgiveness (To observe
| tolerance whole-heartedly, shunning anger.)
|
| > 2. Mardava - Tenderness or Humility (To observe the virtue
| of humility subduing vanity and passions.)
|
| > 3. Arjaya - Straight-forwardness or Honesty (To practice a
| deceit free conduct in life by vanquishing the passion of
| deception.)
|
| > 4. Shaucha - Contentment or Purity (To keep the body, mind
| and speech pure by discarding greed.
|
| > 5. Satya - Truthfulness (To speak affectionate and just
| words with a holy intention causing no injury to any living
| being.)
|
| > 6. Sanyam - Self-restraint (To defend all living beings
| with utmost power in a cosmopolitan spirit abstaining from
| all the pleasures provided by the five senses - touch, taste,
| smell, sight, and hearing; and the sixth - mind.)
|
| > 7. Tapa - Penance or Austerities (To practice austerities
| putting a check on all worldly allurements.)
|
| > 8. Tyaga - Renunciation (To give four fold charities -
| Ahara (food), Abhaya (fearlessness), Aushadha (medicine), and
| Shastra Dana (distribution of Holy Scriptures), and to
| patronize social and religious institutions for self and
| other uplifts.)
|
| > 9. Akinchanya - Non-attachment (To enhance faith in the
| real self as against non-self i.e., material objects; and to
| discard internal Parigraha viz. anger and pride; and external
| Parigraha viz. accumulation of gold, diamonds, and royal
| treasures.)
|
| > 10. Brahmacarya - Chastity or celibacy (To observe the
| great vow of celibacy; to have devotion for the inner soul
| and the omniscient Lord; to discard the carnal desires,
| vulgar fashions, child and old-age marriages, dowry dominated
| marriages, polygamy, criminal assault on ladies, use of foul
| and vulgar language)
|
| In particular, I note both Arjaya and Satya.
|
| (A new thing to me, that I notice now, is the inclusion of
| abhaya (fearlessness) as a kind of tyaga -- a kind of
| renunciation, a giving-away, a charity. This is food for
| thought.)
|
| (And personally I would moderate Sanyam.)
|
| My point is, if one needs direction, perhaps these are where
| one should be looking?
|
| Just miscellaneous thoughts.
| nextlevelwizard wrote:
| OK, but what is the solution? To get a (or multiple)
| child(ren)? Make a "family" that you don't actually want just
| so you can have people who rely on your support? And what then
| when you use your millions to support and nourish your kids?
| Then you get to read on HN about how they are "nepo-babies who
| did nothing on their own and are worthless human beings".
|
| How do you know what he did at the company? When you get acqui-
| hired for large sums you are dropped somewhere in the
| management block where lets be real most people have no idea
| what they are doing and they dont even care they are there just
| for the money.
| rw_panic0_0 wrote:
| to start going to therapy bro, it's like on the surface
| vasco wrote:
| The modern cure to all problems. Pay someone to talk to
| you. Incredible insight.
| totallynothoney wrote:
| I mean yeah? He clearly needs to talk to someone and
| feels isolated. A neutralish third party to talk to (and
| is trained to help!) is a excellent suggestion. Therapy
| isn't a cure all, and is expensive (not that it matters
| in this case) but your comment sounds like:
|
| > The modern cure to all problems. Going to the gym if
| you feel unfit. Incredible insight.
| swiftcoder wrote:
| He's got the money, I don't see how talking to a
| professional could make things _worse_
| wjellyz wrote:
| i know therapy has helped a lot of people in my personal
| life, which is why i tried it, but i think it really made
| me feel alone that the only person i can talk to is
| someone that i pay to listen to me.
|
| i went to therapy for 2 years with this perspective that
| the therapist would fix me like the mechanic fixes my
| car. I spent 2 hours a week with a psychiatrist &
| therapist bitching about my life thinking eventually I
| would get "better".
|
| but then i realized that wasn't getting any better. it's
| not their responsibility to "fix" me. the only person
| that could help me was me.
|
| the first thing we reach for is an external solution to
| solve or escape our current problems and everything is so
| commoditized that there is something that we can fixate
| our attention on.
|
| i think that reflecting this fixation inward has made all
| the difference for me personally.
| cardanome wrote:
| The hard part is finding a therapist that works for you.
|
| Therapy is such a broad spectrum from psychoanalysis to
| behavior therapy. It is very unlikely that you just click
| with the first therapist that you visit, it can take
| years to find someone.
|
| Two years without any tangible progress sound extremely
| unethical from the therapist. Yes, therapy takes time but
| it still something you do for a fixed time period with
| hopefully clear goals where you track your progress.
|
| And yes, the actual work is done by the patient. Just
| like a personal trainer can not just work out for you.
| 7speter wrote:
| Therapy isn't a social relationship. What you're paying
| for is someone to be non judgmental as you unpack things.
| They can help talk you througj it. Friends don't know
| how/wouldn't want to do that.
| jkestner wrote:
| What therapy did was give me a framework by which to
| debug myself.
| saagarjha wrote:
| There are lot of things you can do in your life other than
| being in a relationship you are unhappy about.
| richiricho wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai
|
| Familiy is an option. But being curios and having hobbies
| also. Or helping people around you. Or starting to think
| about the people around you and enjoying the support you can
| provide.
|
| I had my nihilistic depression phase for a decade. There is
| not much to it.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Buy a RocketLab Electron launch and insert a literal hunk of
| lead or a beam reflector cube into geostationary graveyard
| orbit. They never had GTO launches before, let alone direct
| GEO, and I think no one had ever done an intentionally
| passive object into GEO let alone commissioned by an
| individual, it'll be an all around achievement. It's going to
| stay there for a geological timescale with negligible risk of
| space junk and gets its own Gunter's Space Page and Wikipedia
| article with legitimate interest from public.
|
| There are countless stupid fun in the world that money can do
| that isn't about buying out a human or legally punching an
| NPC in face. As well as legit meaningful businesses that may
| or may not make money but kinda fun and useful. The fact that
| this person is being unable to come up with such a task
| suggests existence of a problem, though I wouldn't know if
| it's mental or developmental or physical or circumstantial.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| That's said, if you're struggling with humility and
| connection, legally punching someone in the face and being
| punched in return can be quite rewarding.
|
| So, go join that boxing/bjj gym and learn just how
| pathetically average you really are!
| bumby wrote:
| David Brooks has a good book called "The Second Mountain"
| where he details the shift of priorities later in one's life.
| The "first mountain" is what this guy achieved, monumental
| material success and freedom in pursuit of the "aesthetic
| life" that is overly portrayed in social media as the
| ultimate goal. But Brooks' position is there is a "second
| mountain" to climb focused on commitment to a purpose beyond
| ourselves. Somewhat paradoxically, the second mountain is
| defined by a constraining of the freedom we pursue originally
| because it requires dogged commitment.
| antics wrote:
| You are catching a lot of flak for this, but there is one thing
| you are right about. If you make tens of millions of dollars,
| and can't figure out what to do with those resources, you
| shouldn't be calling your coworkers NPCs. You're the NPC.
|
| I truly mean this in an entirely non-judgemental way. I wish
| the author luck in achieving his dream of becoming high agency
| rather than simply high freedom. I wish it for everyone who
| wants it.
| dangus wrote:
| I'm not afraid to be judgmental...
|
| The article author hasn't figured out that he got to where he
| is because he was lucky, not because he was special in some
| way.
|
| The cringe comes in with the way he does it. He seems to
| realize he is an Elon bro but still thinks DOGE is an
| important national priority and not a problematic oligarchic
| downsizing of our important federal services and regulatory
| bodies.
|
| It's amazing how even millionaires and billionaires don't
| understand that national debt doesn't work like personal
| debt.
|
| But anyway, that's a tangent. The guy dumped his girlfriend
| so he has no family to spend time with, and he's wondering
| why he's bored. His only attempts at stimulation involve
| self-service: how can I be smart and successful especially in
| a way that everyone will know it?
|
| I can only imagine how being financially set for life would
| positively impact a typical fiscally responsible family
| (people with the restraint to hire a financial advisor).
| Imagine being able to cancel daycare and spend your days with
| your family instead of burning your life away in the office.
|
| I even know a person who has no children but thanks to a
| windfall just does his hobbies and hangs out with friends.
| Still works a day job for health insurance but now work
| doesn't define their life. They've done things like learn how
| to DJ and travel to see their international friends on longer
| visits and not just little two week vacations that corporate
| zombies get to take.
|
| But the author is struggling to find a way to make work
| define their life, to get their life to return to capitalism
| that they have been blessed to escape.
|
| Hey author if you are reading this, try doing something
| positive like help people. Volunteer. Everything you have
| tried so far has been self-centered.
| InsideOutSanta wrote:
| Yeah, the "I dumped my girlfriend of two years as soon as
| things got a little bit hard for me, why is my life boring
| and meaningless?" thing also stood out to me. As well as
| this:
|
| "Within 2 minutes of talking to the final interviewer for
| DOGE, he asked me if I wanted to join. I said "yes". Then
| he said "cool" and I was in multiple Signal groups."
|
| DOGE is run on Signal, and his conclusion is "so smart,"
| not "that seems like a huge red flag." This guy sounds like
| he's in line to be the next George Papadopoulos, the guy
| who gets thrown under the bus when everything goes
| sideways.
| adastra22 wrote:
| What is sus about Signal?
| totallynothoney wrote:
| I think he's saying that "running" DOGE via a messanger
| app sounds more like some cryptobro hustle university /
| shitpost chat group than a serious organization. The
| description in the blog of working there that sounds like
| cokehead bender doesn't help.
| richiricho wrote:
| The ignorance that you can just 'fix' a very old, grown
| on purpose structure by having some signal chats, is very
| high.
| compass_copium wrote:
| Governmemt agencies are supposed to have publicly
| available records
| InsideOutSanta wrote:
| The funny thing is that the "Department of Government
| Efficiency" is not a government department, or any kind
| of official government entity. It is probably (or will
| be) a federal advisory committee. Federal advisory
| committees have official rules on open meetings and
| reporting.
|
| So the fact that they think it's a good idea to just
| start a bunch of chats on Signal should be surprising,
| but it's Trump and Elon, so I guess it's just another
| thing in a long list of insane things that just happen,
| and we just kind of ignore them and pretend that
| everything is fine.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Federal entities require transparency and various rules
| to be followed to enable investigations and oversight.
| Remember when a certain political party was concerned
| about somebody's emails?
|
| The signal of using signal for running the business is
| that by working there you're likely committing a crime
| every day by working there. If you're not DJT's bff, or
| when Elon gets kicked out of cool kids club, you're
| boned.
| adastra22 wrote:
| DOGE is not a government entity.
| jkestner wrote:
| Joining a group of rich tech executives on Signal and
| "learning how completely dysfunctional the government
| was" sounds like cult behavior.
| verygoodnotbad wrote:
| I am afraid to be judgemental.
|
| > The article author hasn't figured out that he got to
| where he is because he was lucky, not because he was
| special in some way.
|
| It seems like a lot to assume that suggests the author is
| not a fast technical learner and builder.
|
| > Hey author if you are reading this, try doing something
| positive like help people. Volunteer. Everything you have
| tried so far has been self-centered.
|
| That sounds like good advice for me, but not to the author.
| I sometimes follow orders from random people for fun, but I
| infer that the author does not.
|
| The author traveled off the paved path. Reality gave him
| with wealth and time, but unsatisfaction instead of
| satisfaction. His role is now to figure out a path back to
| satisfaction, perhaps it will be a short path or a long
| path, a common one or a one the world hasn't seen before.
| lazide wrote:
| I think it's the natural result of someone who has 'won'
| a game they have been obsessing about/that defined them.
|
| People often find a similar lack of purpose (albeit much,
| much shorter lived) after being engrossed in a book
| series, very hard video game, or any other pursuit.
|
| The big difference here, IMO, is this is a game that
| society is literally constructed around - for its own
| survival. The 'rat race' puts food on everyone's table,
| provides care when we're sick, defines what future our
| children can have (and if we can even have children) -
| even what rights we have (or don't have) in many cases.
|
| Is it so surprising that having won _that_ game, some
| people - often the ones most obsessed with it - struggle
| to figure out what is next?
| sausagefeet wrote:
| > It seems like a lot to assume that suggests the author
| is not a fast technical learner and builder.
|
| Unless you think one can choose to be a "fast technical
| leaner and builder", then that is still luck.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| Then what is the antonym of luck? Sound like a tautology.
| sausagefeet wrote:
| I don't know! But I don't think that changes the argument
| very much. Unless one thinks that we can choose to be
| smart or a fast learner or have interests that happen to
| be lucrative, we should be very thoughtful about how we
| choose to reward people who are successful. This isn't a
| new or original idea, it's an old debate.
| thegrimmest wrote:
| There is an implied collectivism in your statements. The
| idea that "we choose to reward people who are successful"
| implies there is a collective with the legitimate
| authority to make such determinations. I reject this
| idea. Instead I propose that legitimate authority only
| exists to create a liberal ecosystem, not to meddle in
| the outcomes that ecosystem produces. A person's fortune
| (or misfortune) to be born with particular traits, into a
| particular childhood environment, is _entirely their
| own_. I see no source of legitimacy to redistribute that
| fortune to other people without explicit consent.
| sausagefeet wrote:
| This view makes no sense given any cursory view of
| history. What about European countries going to the
| Americas, taking people's land (with out consent) and
| gold (without consent) to enrich themselves? Or what
| about the relative success of any tribes in the Americas
| prior to Europeans showing up by defeating other tribes?
|
| At what arbitrary point would you like to start counting
| as to where we should start respecting this "consent"? Do
| you want to undo any previous actions or should we just
| take whatever arbitrary power structures we've landed on
| and start? C'mon, this is ridiculous.
|
| We live in a society which, by definition, requires
| multiple people participating. Your right to consent (or
| not) sometimes doesn't exist because society takes
| priority. There is no high philosophy here, it's just the
| reality of how things work. Get over it.
| thegrimmest wrote:
| First of all, I'm not talking about international
| conflict, where the law of the jungle still effectively
| applies to this day. I'm talking about domestic
| liberalism, where ideas like the fundamental equality and
| the consent of the governed are held to be self-evident.
| If you disagree with these ideas then I suspect you will
| be intractable.
|
| > _At what arbitrary point would you like to start
| counting_
|
| There is no need to keep count. We are all born into this
| world with no possessions, and we all negotiate with
| those already here for everything we come to own. It is
| true that people and circumstances vary widely, but that
| doesn't provide legitimacy for one person's claim over
| another (equal) person's legitimate good fortune.
|
| > _We live in a society which, by definition, requires
| multiple people participating_
|
| It is exactly the nature of this participation which I am
| litigating. I hold that it should be _maximally_
| voluntary and consensual. The only justified violation of
| fundamental liberty is in defense of liberty itself.
| Drafting people into the army (effectively enslaving
| them) is justified in direct defense of the nation (not
| to attack eg. Vietnam). Redistributing legitimate (earned
| through consensual exchange) wealth by force simply doesn
| 't pass this test.
|
| > _There is no high philosophy here, it 's just the
| reality of how things work. Get over it._
|
| Funnily enough this is the exact sort of reasoning has
| been used to rationalize the most horrific atrocities
| ever perpetrated.
| sausagefeet wrote:
| > First of all, I'm not talking about international
| conflict, where the law of the jungle still effectively
| applies to this day.
|
| Then why should we take this seriously? Some huge
| disparities in outcomes in this world are the consequence
| of "international conflict". What do you want to do about
| Native Americans in the USA, for example?
|
| > We are all born into this world with no possessions,
| and we all negotiate with those already here for
| everything we come to own.
|
| This is not meaningfully true. If you are born into a
| rich family, you almost certainly are going to live a
| life with more access than those who are not. If you are
| born into a country with socialized medicine you are
| going to have access to opportunities that someone who
| isn't does not. We are not born equal in any way that is
| meaningful.
|
| > It is exactly the nature of this participation which I
| am litigating. I hold that it should be maximally
| voluntary and consensual.
|
| It isn't and can't be. Any right of consent you are given
| in society is society choosing to give you that right. It
| doesn't exist above society. That's just the breaks.
|
| > Funnily enough this is the exact sort of reasoning has
| been used to rationalize the most horrific atrocities
| ever perpetrated.
|
| People find any reason to justify their actions. You'll
| find a lot of terrible things have justifications that
| overlap with non-terrible things. It doesn't really say
| much.
| thegrimmest wrote:
| > _It doesn 't exist above society._
|
| Yes, it does. Or at least that's the line of reasoning
| you seem to be disagreeing with.
|
| > _We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men
| are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
| with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are
| Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness._
|
| The entire line of enlightenment liberal thought that
| gave rise to our society fundamentally disagrees with
| your position. The right to liberty is not bestowed by
| the good graces of society, but is fundamental and
| unalienable.
|
| > _That 's just the breaks._
|
| This isn't a justification, it's a rationalization, and
| not a particularly good one. I am arguing that liberty,
| ie. the right to interact with other people on a
| consensual basis, ought to be the primary determining
| factor as to whether any particular action is legitimate.
| You have not replied with an argument on why this ought
| not to be.
|
| > _It isn 't and can't be._
|
| Yes, it can. Or at least, it can be _more consensual_. I
| hold that charity is a more ethical means of wealth
| redistribution than taxation, exactly because of charity
| 's voluntary nature. I also hold that before the New
| Deal, the status quo was much more liberal. Government
| was a small entity mostly charged with administering the
| vital institutions that maintained the liberal order.
| There were of course still overreaches and failures, as
| with any human system. Do you really think that tearing
| down much of the New Deal _can 't be_? I think it _can_ ,
| whether it _will_ remains to be seen.
|
| > _You 'll find a lot of terrible things have
| justifications that overlap with non-terrible things._
|
| Then the justifications are wrong. The ends do not
| justify the means. Legitimate action should be possible
| to justify from first-principles in a manner that
| precludes illegitimate action. Otherwise how could we
| possibly come to an agreement on a distinction between
| the two? I would also note that the ideas I'm
| articulating do exactly that: provide a concrete,
| universalizable framework to distinguish the legitimate
| from the illegitimate.
| sausagefeet wrote:
| > The entire line of enlightenment liberal thought that
| gave rise to our society fundamentally disagrees with
| your position. The right to liberty is not bestowed by
| the good graces of society, but is fundamental and
| unalienable
|
| You're quoting a document that is defining what rights it
| will give to the people. Whatever language you want to
| add around it can't get past the point that the document
| is giving rights to people and we as a society are
| agreeing to follow that document.
|
| And please, this document is written in a time where many
| of its signers were holding slaves. Clearly not every man
| was considered equal.
| thegrimmest wrote:
| The document does not give any rights to anyone. It is a
| piece of paper. What it does is _describe an idea_. The
| idea is that there are certain unalienable rights. You
| may disagree with that idea, but you cannot deny its
| existence.
|
| > _many of its signers were holding slaves_
|
| I can separate the idea from the people that held it.
| Can't you? I think this idea of liberty was a very good
| idea, and I support the expansion of those who qualify to
| be as free as described. What I'm arguing against is the
| erosion of the definition. We are not nearly as free now
| as free people were when the document was written. We are
| subject to much more authority.
|
| It seems as though in your view, anything "society" does
| is legitimate, is that so?
| sausagefeet wrote:
| My claim, this entire time, is that the reality is that
| you, as an individual, have no rights to consent or
| volunteer beyond what society bestows upon you. Your
| usage of documents from the founding of the United States
| of America, if anything, entirely support my argument.
| The Declaration of Independence might talk about equality
| but the reality is that blacks and women were not equal.
| It took society choosing to give them rights for them to
| receive them. That's not an idea, that's the reality.
| Whether or not you like it or not or think it's a good
| idea doesn't get in the way of that is what reality is.
|
| > We are not nearly as free now as free people were when
| the document was written. We are subject to much more
| authority.
|
| Tell this to a slave in 1776.
|
| > It seems as though in your view, anything "society"
| does is legitimate, is that so?
|
| No, "legitimate" is a judgement, I'm saying that what
| society does is what society does and there is no
| philosophy or higher abstraction defining it. It's just
| reality. I think if society is functioning in a way we
| disagree with, our only option is to try to convince
| enough people to change it. We can use language that
| tries to define philosophies around consent and
| individual rights in order to be persuasive but if
| society doesn't agree then you don't get those things,
| even if you really think that's how it should work.
| bruce343434 wrote:
| It depends wether you believe in determinism. If you do,
| then everything is just "luck". If you believe that your
| mind is something special that can come to conclusions
| truly independently (create information out of thin air)
| then the consequences of actions are skill or
| intelligence.
|
| Or whatever. "Luck" is just a dumb concept we humans use
| to handwave away edge cases.
| sausagefeet wrote:
| It does not require believing in determinism to believe a
| majority of one's outcome is based on context that they
| do not control. For myself, I didn't choose which country
| I was born in (I happen to be born in a wealthy country).
| I also was not born into abusive parents but rather
| parents who valued science and school. We happened to get
| a computer early because of my dad's job and I happen to
| have enjoyed it. That doesn't mean it's a deterministic
| outcome, but it is chaotic, in the sense that given all
| these inputs it's not possible to predict the outcome.
| And small perturbations can have significantly different
| outputs.
|
| > "Luck" is just a dumb concept we humans use to handwave
| away edge cases.
|
| Or maybe this view is just people who really want to
| believe there is something else. What is that something
| else?
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Luck is a combination fortune and the ability to exploit
| it. We all have examples of the right ideas at the wrong
| time, as well as serendipity dropping the right
| circumstances at the right time.
| xenophonf wrote:
| The antonym of "luck" is "misfortune".
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| > _It seems like a lot to assume that suggests the author
| is not a fast technical learner and builder._
|
| I'm a fast technical learner and builder. I will _never_
| be where this guy is, in part because most of my
| resources are going into keeping myself afloat. I live my
| life as though "luck" _isn 't_ a factor (what's the use
| in declaring defeat?), but it's certainly not _merit_
| that separates the rich from the poor.
| dangus wrote:
| If he was a fast learner and thinker he would have
| figured out that DOGE is an illegal oligarchy scheme.
| tw04 wrote:
| > It seems like a lot to assume that suggests the author
| is not a fast technical learner and builder.
|
| There are a lot of really, really, really smart people
| who never become generationally wealthy. Generational
| wealth almost always includes either luck, or
| intentionally heading down a morally reprehensible path.
|
| You'll have a tough time convincing me the guy who
| invented loom is smarter than or contributed more to
| mankind than Nikola Tesla.
|
| Which is probably a perfect example because Edison took
| the morally reprehensible path.
| boringg wrote:
| Your examples are at the extreme end. You can be a fast
| technical learner or builder which does make you special
| but not be an inventor or someone who can grok science
| and systems similar to Tesla / Edison.
|
| Loom != DC or AC electricity its a helpful tool not
| transformational technology such as electricity.
| tw04 wrote:
| Op said he got lucky, the response implied he didn't. My
| example is extreme because the circumstances of making
| several hundred million dollars on a startup exit is
| EXTREMELY rare, and has far more to do with luck than
| skill.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > He seems to realize he is an Elon bro but still thinks
| DOGE is an important national priority and not a
| problematic oligarchic downsizing of our important federal
| services and regulatory bodies.
|
| Based on this blog and the needs of the overseeing
| oligarch, DOGE appears to be a therapy programme for
| millionaires and billionaires.
| dangus wrote:
| Now that is a hilarious take. It really is blatantly
| obvious how badly people like Elon Musk need therapy.
|
| But we shouldn't downplay what the program really intends
| to do: gut federal government spending rather than
| raising taxes on the wealthy to a sensible level.
|
| Most federal government spending has very real benefits
| to the average person and should be thought of as more of
| an investment than a cost. But the DOGE mafia wants to
| cut programs that help the average person to protect
| their own fortunes.
|
| E.g., the average person is harmed by shutting down the
| department of education. The wealthy who go to private
| school their whole lives are not.
| antics wrote:
| There is truth to what you say. But I sense what I wrote
| came off more negative than I intended, and I am not sure
| it makes any of our lives (our lives or his) better to be
| hard on the author. Self actualization is legitimately
| extremely difficult.
| dangus wrote:
| If I were you I wouldn't worry about what you said coming
| across negative.
|
| The article author is essentially on the wrong side of
| the class war. I don't really care how well he self-
| actualizes and I don't think anyone should.
|
| At this point he's a <1%er who essentially thinks it's a
| good idea to help the richest man alive fuck up the
| government.
| mnky9800n wrote:
| there is a wonderful quote from a soviet movie called guest
| from the future, you can watch the whole movie on youtube
| with english subtitles here:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BB6bwJ9agM
|
| Anyways, the quote is:
|
| >> You are a pathetic victim of an idle mind.
|
| I think this aptly describes the author.
| nishantmodak wrote:
| Wasn't it pascal who said that all of our problems come
| from our inability to be bored.
| lloeki wrote:
| It is, and the thinking of it runs deeper than the quote,
| in ways that directly echo TFA author's own words:
|
| http://www.mpafrancais.weebly.com/uploads/1/9/9/8/1998459
| 5/p...
|
| (en francais, of course. I link to it in its original
| language as I take issue with the usual translation of
| the very title as "Diversion", which immediately lacks
| the double-entendre of "Divertissement", which in french
| stands for both "diversion" and "entertainment")
|
| Maybe what TFA author should do is spend some time
| standing on the shoulders of giants and read some
| philosophy?
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| > Tel homme passe sa vie sans ennui en jouant tous les
| jours peu de chose. Donnez-lui tous les matins l'argent
| qu'il peu gagner chaque jour, a la charge qu'il ne joue
| point : vous le rendez malheureux. On dira peut-etre que
| c'est qu'il recherche l'amusement du jeu, et non pas le
| gain. Faites-le donc jouer pour rien, il ne s'y
| echauffera pas et s'y ennuiera. Ce n'est donc pas
| l'amusement seul qu'il recherche : un amusement
| languissant et sans passion l'ennuiera. Il faut qu'il
| s'echauffe et qu'il se pipe lui-meme, en s'imaginant
| qu'il serait heureux de gagner ce qu'il ne voudrait pas
| qu'on lui donnat a condition de ne point jouer, afin
| qu'il se forme un sujet de passion, et qu'il excite sur
| cela son desir, sa colere, sa crainte, pour l'objet qu'il
| s'est forme, comme les enfants qui s'effrayent du visage
| qu'ils ont barbouille.
|
| I wouldn't be so sure about this, this might depend on
| the personality of the player. Some might think that
| introducing monetary stakes in fact ruins the game
| itself. And you can even take it further : the winning
| itself might become secondary - at which point playing
| the game is probably more akin to a form of artistic
| expression, infused with a different kind of meaning.
| (There are also games where you win, but in cooperation
| with others rather than against others.)
|
| But then this passage also reminded me of this recent
| thread :
|
| "More men are addicted to the 'crack cocaine' of the
| stock market"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42468255
| joncrocks wrote:
| The commonly repeated phrase:
|
| All of humanity's problems, stem from man's inability to
| sit quietly in a room alone. - attributed to
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal
|
| I think it's someone paraphrasing from the original text.
|
| https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/69487/why-
| did...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise_Pascal
| richiricho wrote:
| Yep the DOGE thing was crazy fucked up. You worded it very
| nicely.
| begueradj wrote:
| << I'm not afraid to be judgmental
|
| Is there any single daily life situation where any person
| from around the globe and in the entire history of
| humankind who is not judgemental? Perhaps not at a job
| interview? Or maybe at dating or when trying to sell or buy
| something or simply when looking at that person?
| RaiausderDose wrote:
| 100s meetings on Signal with the 'smartest people I have
| ever met' is a big red flag for me.
|
| I know I'm an asshole, but I've never had good experiences
| with people who call themselves super smart.
|
| And of course, they were identifying all problems with the
| government on signal in very short, super effective
| meetings... yeah sure, dude.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Some of the smartest people I know are also the most
| humble. Everyone can tell they're extremely smart but
| they'll be the last to admit it.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I think he IS special. You can't easily have $60m income
| and be this bored. He could probably, say, get a million
| dollar in $1 note and burn it dollar by dollar in the
| backyard one evening and be a YouTuber overnight. Getting
| exposure is stupid, so what, he could pay an "NPC" do it
| for him.
|
| What this guy is missing is creativity. And we don't have
| data to determine if it's contributor, detractor, or
| tangent to the position where he is at. I'd bet it's a
| bigly contributory, as gains from x-factors are called
| gambling.
| Litost wrote:
| I suspect burning $1 notes one at a time might take a
| very long time (it takes longer than you might expect
| burning bundles of PS50 notes [1]) and as you say "What
| this guy is missing is creativity", just burning $1m
| dollars just for the sake of it, unless you're making
| some creative comment some would probably see as
| pointless/divisive.
|
| [1] See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_
| Burn_a_Million_Qu...
| jkestner wrote:
| See, what separates the special titans of startup
| industry from the rest of us is the creativity to burn
| those dollars _at scale._
| finnthehuman wrote:
| > Hey author if you are reading this, try doing something
| positive like help people. Volunteer. Everything you have
| tried so far has been self-centered.
|
| It's a common enough idea to tell someone rudderless to
| volunteer, but I feel like it's never tempered with the
| perspective of having volunteered and reflected on how the
| donated time has effected one's own life. Shaming someone
| rudderless into volunteering doesn't help them for exactly
| the obvious reasons it won't. At least no more than
| anything else you can lean hard into in life to avoid
| something else. Suggesting it as a fix to ennui is bad
| advice, the virtuousness of volunteering just masks how
| terrible it is.
| dijksterhuis wrote:
| i volunteer.
|
| my suggestion to the author would be: spend some time
| volunteering and get over yourself (by that i mean their
| own ego which seems to be putting them at the centre of
| everything).
|
| in my experience, some things tend to come out of it
|
| - gratitude for where i am at in life because i'm
| struggling less than the people i'm helping
|
| - empathy because jesus yeah these people are struggling
| and i'm seeing just how much it's affecting them
|
| - humility because you know what, i really am limited in
| what i can actually do for these people, none of my
| "technical prowess" is actually useful here
|
| - purpose because man i feel bad for these people and id
| like to do more to help than just showing up once a week
|
| i don't volunteer because it's "virtuous". fuck
| virtuosity.
|
| i do it because i need to for my own sake -- to
| experience the stuff above. it's selfish-selflessness. by
| helping others i also help myself.
|
| edit -- added the one about humility which is quite
| important
|
| edit 2 -- donating money (philanthropy) is not the same
| as volunteering. in case there's any confusion. boots on
| the ground are required.
| wadadadad wrote:
| I don't understand what you're trying to say here. To
| share my experience as someone who volunteers, I find it
| to be one of the most gratifying (humbling, helpful,
| makes me see the value of life) things, and I think it's
| worthwhile to share the idea that it could help someone
| who is searching for meaning. I wholeheartedly recommend
| volunteering for everyone who can afford it (which I
| recognize not everyone can). I'm not sure GP here needs
| to necessarily state "I volunteer and found it
| worthwhile" every time they recommend it.
|
| What are these "obvious reasons" that volunteering won't
| help someone seeking direction?
|
| I also don't follow why you haven't stated whether you've
| personally tried volunteering and whether it's "worked"
| for you, particularly when you seem dismissive of it and
| seem to looking for personal reasoning from others.
| finnthehuman wrote:
| >I also don't follow why you haven't stated whether
| you've personally tried volunteering and whether it's
| "worked" for you, particularly when you seem dismissive
| of it and seem to looking for personal reasoning from
| others.
|
| I do. I did not start to distract myself from other life
| issues, I joined because I wanted to help the org
| accomplish it's mission. It's rewarding and fulfilling,
| but I'm not using it as a mental defense from something
| else in my life. Whether or not it "worked" in that sense
| is simply not a thing for me.
|
| It certainly shifted a lot of my mental focus. That's why
| I mentioned you can lean hard into things in life as a
| distraction for what's consuming you. And I've certainly
| used that mental defense over the years, it just happened
| that the things I used didn't include volunteering. And
| over the years I've noticed through others that
| volunteering is a particularly good way of self-deception
| that you're not just employing that defense.
|
| That's why shaming someone into volunteering when they're
| rudderless bothers me. It's hard to argue against because
| it has intrinsic value AND can work in the "the true
| $whatever was the friends we made along the way" sense,
| plus the slim chance they find a new life purpose. But
| also maybe it doesn't and they really should have been
| shamed into joining the clergy instead because that's
| where they would have found their calling.
| aga98mtl wrote:
| > He seems to realize he is an Elon bro but still thinks
| DOGE is an important national priority and not a
| problematic oligarchic downsizing of our important federal
| services and regulatory bodies.
|
| I'm confused by this belief. Anyone who has ever interacted
| with a big government in the West knows they are a knot of
| old and confusing regulations that cause every thing to be
| slow and expensive. A leftist should be happy that the
| state gets to accomplish more with it's existing budget.
| tedivm wrote:
| The problem is that no one believes Elon and company are
| actually trying to "accomplish more with it's existing
| budget". That would be a great goal, but I don't believe
| that's what they're doing or even capable of doing.
|
| Remember, Elon downsized Twitter by 80%, and then Twitter
| lost 80% of it's value. Simply firing a bunch of people
| doesn't accomplish more, it can actually destroy the
| value of the thing to begin with.
|
| We've all seen this with republicans before. They take
| over, make things worse, and then use the fact that
| things are worse as an excuse for why the government
| shouldn't do the things it does. Elon isn't an expert in
| efficiency, he's an arsonist coming in to destroy the
| government so he and his buddies can extract more value
| out of this country.
| boringg wrote:
| Disagree with your take.
|
| Many people believe Elon in that he's trying to right the
| ship. Elon has been very clear on his ambitions and he
| isn't what you are trying to paint him as (a political
| republican). And the counter point is that Elon and large
| portion SV have remained in the center while the Dems
| marched steadily left leaving everyone in the center
| without a party.
|
| Twitter was broken and full of bloat as is clearly
| obvious given that it is performing in many ways better
| than before engineering wise. It has become much more of
| a wild west given his free speech absolutism perspective
| but you can't possibly argue that what he didn't proved
| all the critics wrong - lights stayed on, kept shipping
| products. It certainly hasn't lost 80% value from his
| actions - he bought it at the height of ZIRP mania.
|
| Now whether Elon has a enough inertia to actually be able
| to tackle some of the truly endemic issues of the Federal
| government is another question. Some of his new found
| friends will certainly poison the water but my take is he
| is authentic in his attempt to reduce deficit and lower
| the debt for the US while increasing growth.
| sarchertech wrote:
| >he is authentic in his attempt to reduce deficit and
| lower the debt for the US while increasing growth.
|
| The only way he is being authentic is if he is an idiot.
|
| If he knew what he was talking about and was being
| authentic, he wouldn't be publicly stating that he is
| going to cut $2 trillion from the budget.
|
| Payroll for the entire Federal civilian workforce is only
| $300 billion.
|
| I guess he could just be suffering from delusions of
| grandeur and he think he's going to be able to eliminate
| Social Security, Medicare, or the Military.
| tedivm wrote:
| He's planning on going after Medicare, Medicaid, and
| Social Security. That's the only way to cut that much
| from the budget. Republicans have been transparent about
| their desire to remove the social safety nets for awhile
| now.
| sarchertech wrote:
| So then he's delusional because he thinks he can come up
| with someway to cut $2 trillion from those programs that
| anyone will vote for.
| boringg wrote:
| I think both parties know entitlements need to be
| changed. No current way to manage.
| aga98mtl wrote:
| Yes, the republicans will cut spending. Next election
| cycle the Democrats will be able raise spending, but now
| from a more sound basis. The deadwood will be pruned.
| DOGE is good for both the left and the right.
|
| Also do note that the current Twitter valuation is higher
| than we he bought it. Cutting 80% of the staff at twitter
| was the right move. https://www.yahoo.com/tech/elon-
| musks-startup-xai-now-120118...
| tedivm wrote:
| xAI and X are two separate companies. xAI is raising
| funds with a target valuation of $40b, but that has
| nothing to do with X. The article you linked to makes
| this pretty clear and validates what I said about the 80%
| lost.
|
| > The new valuation means xAI has surpassed the $44
| billion Musk paid for Twitter in October 2022. X was
| valued at $9.4 billion by Fidelity, one of its investors,
| in September. The firm, which invested $19.6 million in
| the platform, has written down the value of its
| investment by nearly 79% since 2022.
|
| Cutting 80% of the staff happened during the same time
| period when Fidelity dropped the evaluation by 79%.
| Cutting the staff doesn't seem like a good move at all.
| sarchertech wrote:
| The problem isn't that someone is trying to improve
| government efficiency.
|
| The problem is that we picked a billionaire professional
| internet troll to do it whose stated goal is cutting 2
| trillion from the budget.
|
| And ignoring the fact that Elon is already running 3
| companies, you couldn't possibly find someone with more
| conflicts of interest than the richest man in the world.
|
| Here's a quote from Reason (hardly a left wing
| publication) that sums up how absurd their goal is.
|
| "Musk and Ramaswamy's public pronouncements thus far do
| not inspire confidence. Musk's promise to save "at least
| $2 trillion" annually--approximately one-third of all
| (noninterest) federal spending--suggests a lack of
| familiarity with the federal budget. Roughly 75 percent
| of all federal spending goes to Social Security,
| Medicare, Medicaid, defense, veterans, and interest, and
| the final quarter includes priorities such as
| infrastructure, justice, border security, health
| research, national parks, unemployment benefits, disaster
| aid, and disability benefits."
|
| Large organizations are inherently inefficient because id
| the non linear growth in communications overhead. If you
| don't understand an organization, coming in and hacking
| away at it is insanely dangerous. How many companies have
| been ruined when hedge fund buys then and starts trying
| to "maximize efficiency"?
| aga98mtl wrote:
| Yes cutting $2T is not realistic. If they manage to do a
| few percent of the goal it is still going to be good for
| everyone.
|
| Bloat is a major issue that prevent anglosphere societies
| from achieving goals that poorer societies do easily. Ex:
| Spain or France do awesome public transit for 3 or 5
| times less than we do.
| sarchertech wrote:
| You don't accomplish things by setting wildly unrealistic
| goals that you know are unobtainable.
|
| And he's not going to completely reorganize society so
| that we can build cheap public transit. Especially not by
| running a "government agency" that can't do anything
| other than make recommendations to the president.
|
| Do you know how many similar commissions we've had to
| reduce waste and spending?
| deltarholamda wrote:
| The girlfriend thing was very odd. At one time, "making it"
| meant now you can marry the girl, have a bunch of kids, and
| become a pillar of your community.
|
| Get rich? Move to a small or mid-sized city, marry your
| girl, have some kids, and get involved. Need to be busy?
| Run a local business that hires locals. Use your money and
| expertise to improve your community, which is a lot easier
| to do as a big fish in a small pond.
| phkahler wrote:
| >> still thinks DOGE is an important national priority and
| not a problematic oligarchic downsizing of our important
| federal services and regulatory bodies.
|
| I'm not convinced it's the later. There IS a looming
| financial problem with our government and nobody else is
| doing anything about it. Federal spending is up trillions
| of dollars (per year) in the last 5 years with nothing to
| show for it. There is huge inefficiency and Elon wants to
| take a stab at fixing it. Yes, the man has his flaws, but
| he's trying to fix things nobody else will even try. Not
| sure why people have to hate on that.
|
| BTW, I do expect so over-cutting will happen and there will
| be fallout from that. But hopefully the budget gets fixed
| and congress learns something about fiscal responsibility.
| orochimaaru wrote:
| I have a different take. Most people in corporate jobs are
| NPCs, me included. I don't mind it. My meaning and purpose is
| the family I'm trying to support. If that means things at work
| are on autopilot so be it. It's just a matter of priorities.
|
| So yeah - it's fine to call me an NPC. I just have my
| priorities figured out better than the author.
| rat87 wrote:
| That sounds like the opposite of an npc. Someone with a
| personal life. One of the reasons its a stupid insult. If you
| want to rag on people for being shitty or minimumn effort
| workers then do so. NPC implies you cant tell the difference
| if they were replaced by a shitty program that repeats the
| same lines over and over.
| DiscourseFan wrote:
| Well, most people in society are forced to repeat the same
| behaviors as every one else for a minimum of comfort:
| friends, family, etc. For the college-educated in the US
| that often means getting a professional job and joining a
| hobby club of some sort and getting married and having one
| or two kids. Most of them are happy with that, but most of
| them also remember the freedom they had in college and know
| that deep down they are settling for less than the most
| they could have, because they're probably afraid of what
| that would mean. I can understand why someone who is freed
| from that world of the "normal" might not know what to do
| outside of it.
| jebarker wrote:
| > Most of them are happy with that, but most of them also
| remember the freedom they had in college
|
| The freedom you have in college is a shallow, parasitic
| kind of freedom. College is the apex point of your being
| an uncontributing member of society. Up to that point all
| you've done is receive. Becoming an adult is taking on
| responsibility, contributing to society and earning the
| real freedom to live a life you value. If you maintained
| the supposed freedom you have at college you're just
| blind to the fact that you're totally dependent on other
| people. A more authentic version of the college freedom
| would be to go live in the woods and forage for
| sustenance.
| david-gpu wrote:
| Well put. Becoming a parent made me rethink what it means
| to be an adult, much along the lines of what you're
| describing here.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| Another reason why a structured, public service year
| between high school and college would likely be
| beneficial for most young people in the US.
| DiscourseFan wrote:
| With the amount of excess wealth in today's society we
| can afford to give everyone that same level of freedom
| that people experience in college; there is no need to
| have people "go out into the woods" if they don't want
| to, that's insane! I'd rather people go out into space or
| explore new territories than just try to survive on their
| own, starve to death meaninglessly. We do not live in
| wandering bands of hunter-gatherers, we live in an
| advanced capitalist society with the most marvelous
| technological capacities in history--your imagination is
| limited to _survival_ alone?
|
| Plus, you're ignoring that in college many students have
| the opportunity to spontaneously begin working on
| projects together that they would never be able to
| outside of a college campus. I remember reading on here
| even that a student team broke a world record for a
| rocket launch I believe, and all the commenters agreed,
| _it could not have happened outside of college_ , it
| could not have happened with those exact
| "responsibilities" that you refer to. Elon Musk has
| _eleven_ kids just because, you know, he can--many
| aspiring parents in this country today struggle to have
| just _one_.
|
| Those responsibilities? They are the crushing of
| individual creative potential in society through the
| extraction of wealth via wage-labor. Oh, but it's
| "privileged" to be a creative, its privileged to build
| something on your own for your own sake, its privileged
| to go out and explore and discover new things, its
| privileged to _have children_ ; perhaps you might see why
| many believe their own society has it out for them, and
| why this whole logic of "building character" is just a
| horrific repetition of their daily lives filled with
| meaningless toil just to survive so some millionaire can
| have an existential crisis because they can't imagine a
| world outside of it.
|
| "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than
| are dreamt of in your philosophy."
| pavlov wrote:
| The irony of calling other people NPCs is that a player
| character in a computer game barely has any more freedom.
| All the possible actions and end states are pre-designed
| and scripted.
|
| If you think of yourself as "Player One", you are literally
| thinking inside the box. The first step to freedom is to
| stop thinking about games and scores because they are not
| the world.
| danielbarla wrote:
| While the tone of the post might come off as childish, I don't
| think it should be dismissed quite so off hand, because I think
| there's a lot more behind it than one might think.
|
| I cannot but help think that there's a fair bit of truth behind
| Terror Management Theory [1], which paraphrased states that a
| lot of human activity is centered around the need to get our
| minds off the topic of our mortality, or to find something
| meaningful in it. I can totally see that someone who spends
| much of their life working towards a goal of essentially
| getting rich now finds that he is somewhat rudderless after
| that point. Is finding something interesting to do meaningful?
| I mean, it's completely subjective.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory
| lazide wrote:
| Nihilism when understanding/dealing with the problem is also
| a common trap in Buddhism, and a big reason why Monks will
| often discourage unguided meditation practice. The Void is a
| powerful thing to grasp, and can very much be 'held wrong'
| [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81]
|
| Ultimately, that nothing ultimately matters, also does not
| really ultimately matter.
|
| All we really have is now, and the conditions which have led
| to now, and our ability to do things within our power now.
| And that does matter, as much as anything ever can. Which is
| something. Getting through to that point is not a given.
|
| IMO, part of what made the Buddha, well, the Buddha, is he
| tried to make it better. Despite knowing all this. And
| despite it being much, much harder, messier, and more painful
| than the path he could of taken - which is opting out.
|
| Will you make it better (in your judgement)? Make it worse
| (in your judgement)? Rely on someone else's judgement? How
| accurate is your judgement?
|
| Or opt out (and what does that mean)?
|
| Buddha (depending on the tradition) taught a path to reduce
| pain, and in some cases opt out (for Monks, at least, to some
| extent) by hopefully seeing the truth as best as one can.
|
| That form of Buddhism is not very popular.
|
| Religions that give a narrative involving conquering (Islam,
| Christianity in the recent past), surrendering (Modern
| Christianity, Jainism), or being chosen/made
| (Judaism/Hinduism) for/by a deity to achieve heaven or have
| one's fate decided are much more popular.
|
| I expect for much the same reason that action movies, dramas,
| and epics are more popular than quiet walks in the woods.
| danielbarla wrote:
| Indeed, and I think your comment throws some light on the
| depths of the topic. It's easily one of the most profound
| topics, and is worth exploring in and of itself (even if in
| this case the blog post author came off extremely tone
| deaf).
| bormaj wrote:
| Any reading recommendations for exploring this further?
| lazide wrote:
| There are many roads. Finding a local Zen center may be
| one. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen]. Location
| dependent, of course.
|
| Be careful to not confuse reading a map, for walking the
| road.
|
| Take some steps, and see if where it seems to be going
| makes sense to you.
| tough wrote:
| Never mistake the map for the territory https://en.wikipe
| dia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation
| hoot wrote:
| I read "The Way of Zen" by Alan Watts and it completely
| changed my existence. It really got me away from concepts
| like searching for meaning, purpose, and making things
| better.
| richiricho wrote:
| Interesting to see.
|
| I walked through this by myself and it took a decade to do
| so.
|
| Always crazy to see that these things are as old as we are
| richiricho wrote:
| I think it shows a complete lack of curiosity.
|
| I watch a youtube video about anything like creating my own
| door fixtures through 3d print and metal casting.
|
| I would immediadlty buy a nice old house, start working on
| it.
|
| I have so so many things i don't have time due to money and
| work, he is so so far away from being intersting, it hurts to
| read that
| eamag wrote:
| You can see that's what OP did: he watched a youtube video
| about robotics (door fixtures), immediately wrote to 70
| people (bought a nice old house) to start working on it.
|
| But then he realized it's not what he wants to spend his
| time on
| richiricho wrote:
| Nope. His motivations are capitalstic in nature and his
| idol is Elon Musk.
|
| He doesn't care to help people or getting into robotics
| because he is interested in it.
|
| He doesn't have a real deep relationship with someone to
| share his live with (he mentions his ex-girlfriend).
|
| He is the type of human being who got lucky rich, but
| doesn't realize he is empty inside. Elon Musk is even
| worse.
|
| Captialism as an endgoal for society doesn't bring us any
| closer to a Star Trek future and there are probably a
| Billion happier but a lot poorer people ou tthere than
| him.
|
| He doesn't want to spend his time on it because his
| capitalistic thinking is so narrow that he doesn't care
| about the things which are already around him.
|
| When you read the last thing from him " It's the only
| thing that feels authentic." even his 'just learning
| physics' is not even authentic. He doesn't do it for
| being curious, he does it to " I can start a company that
| manufactures real world things. "
|
| And the only interesting thing about this blog post,
| which i will forget tomorrow, is because we tent to like
| to read things which are more rare than others. There was
| not much insight or brilliance in his live at all.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Fully agree. Clients like this are why I left firm life and
| went in-house doing corporate tax work.
| rideontime wrote:
| BTW, Honey was, in fact, stealing affiliate commissions.
| oliwarner wrote:
| I agree, but rather than just laying into them, perhaps it's a
| symptom of too much money. Perhaps that's the cause, not
| something that has happened upon an already vapid simpleton.
|
| It follows that completely removing any potential scarcity
| might separate you from other people. And how long would you
| last stewing in your own mental urine before you started
| thinking of others as _less_?
|
| Honestly I read this as something to pity; a situation to
| avoid. Megalomania robs otherwise interesting people of all
| their humanity and having read a few more comments here , the
| best thing he could do would be to throw as much money as
| possible into therapy. You don't have to spare any sympathy for
| him but Vinay desperately needs help.
| cwalv wrote:
| To me it reads like the author wants you to think this way.
| There's more than a little self loathing in there, starting
| with the title.
|
| But IMO it's not surprising. When I left my first "real job"
| after ~4 years, it took months before I stopped dreaming about
| that job. I was amazed how wrapped-up I was in it.
|
| What is surprising is that they put this out there so plainly.
| Unless they're just trolling .. but I'm going to go with "not
| trolling", because cynicism just leads to sorrow.
| jcgrillo wrote:
| Seems like the ex dodged a bullet
| zozbot234 wrote:
| OP has enough money to live like an _actual_ Doge [0]. (And get
| a pet Shiba Inu K-9 while he 's at it.)
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doge_(title)
| martins_irbe wrote:
| The post title should read, "I am poor and have no idea what to
| do". :D
| mparnisari wrote:
| If I became rich, I would create a company of metal detectors
| that would uncover long lost treasures. They would also find lost
| items for ppl.
|
| I can dream, right?
| benlivengood wrote:
| I remember the feeling of being 12 or so and lamenting that I no
| longer enjoyed the same kind of play in the (literal) sandbox any
| more; a bit of sorrow at the loss of a source of joy in my life
| that I had grown out of. It was an interesting realization that
| growing up means changing desires and priorities and that I
| should expect to reach plateaus where I would need to pick a new
| direction to go in. I've always followed my personal interests
| and hobbies since then; there seems to be a fairly broad line
| between nonproductive hedonism and goal-driven productivity where
| there's plenty of room for personal satisfaction without risking
| an identity/purpose loss when big goals significantly drop in
| priority.
|
| Working on a particular goal to exclusion of all else sounds like
| quite a shock when that's no longer a driving priority.
| nice_byte wrote:
| you went to work for "doge"? Man don't take it the wrong way but
| you really are cringe.
| moneycantbuy wrote:
| insufferable and now our tax dollars are paying for him to cut
| government services via DOGE.
| codingbot3000 wrote:
| I think people working for DOGE are unpaid so far, don't they?
| nineteen999 wrote:
| Boo hoo.
| Mystery-Machine wrote:
| If your problem is that you're rich and have no idea what to do,
| why not just spice it up and give away _all_ of your money, with
| no way back? That's too difficult? Well, try it. If you're lost
| and can't figure out any other option...increase difficulty level
| in this game and start again. Good luck!
| Animats wrote:
| Been there, done that.
|
| General comments:
|
| - Most people who make a lot of money all at once blow it within
| seven years. Check out what happens to lottery winners, jocks,
| and rappers. As a rule of thumb, you can safely spend 4% of your
| net worth per year. Pay yourself some fixed amount each quarter.
|
| - You don't have to get into complex investments. Half in some
| bond funds, half in some diversified stock funds will work out
| OK.
|
| - Any investment where they call you is probably not very good.
|
| Useful reading, although dated: "The Challenges of Wealth", by
| Domini et. al.
|
| What to do with your life? No idea. What are you good at?
|
| - I was a visiting scholar at Stanford for a while. But it was
| the "AI Winter" and not much was happening. Did robotics in the
| 1990s. Held patents on legged running on rough terrain, ragdoll
| physics. Ran a DARPA Grand Challenge team. Didn't really lead
| anywhere. Too early. Still programming. A metaverse client I'm
| writing in Rust is running on another screen.
|
| - Horses have been good for me. Every day, I go out and spend
| time with a pushy alpha mare who keeps me in shape. "Riding is
| the only art which princes learn truly". Horses are not impressed
| by money. Neither are most riders.
|
| - I've known a few ex-CEOs. One did a lot of reasonable little
| stuff but never did anything with much impact again. One founded
| a charity. Another was really into sailboats, and he just kept on
| with sailboats, crossing the Atlantic and such. He's lucky in
| having a wife who is also very into sailboats. One guy bought a
| nightclub, but it loses money year after year.
| ip26 wrote:
| _One did a lot of reasonable little stuff but never did
| anything with much impact again_
|
| This always stymies me. If I were to make it big, I'd want to
| go on to do other very useful things. But so commonly that
| doesn't happen. Is it because they lost the fire? Because they
| were really lucky exactly once? Or perhaps their talents were
| suited only to that one thing?
| azinman2 wrote:
| Skill, luck, timing.
|
| Few people achieve something big. Even fewer can achieve
| another big thing. Even less can continue achieving.
| Animats wrote:
| That's always a good question. Were you smart, or were you
| lucky?
|
| This is most often a problem with traders and investors who
| made a good bet. Less so with something that took a lot of
| effort to make work.
|
| I know a married couple who blew through an amount in eight
| figures and had to get low level jobs. Lost their house.
| thfuran wrote:
| Maybe somewhat less, but effort doesn't really imply value
| and value doesn't imply successful extraction.
| rollo wrote:
| Personally I get immense enjoyment out of not doing anything
| useful, especially not on a big scale. So if I were to
| accidentally "make it big", I'd most likely not do it again
| and keep enjoying the small inconsequential things.
| psanford wrote:
| > Most people who make a lot of money all at once blow it
| within seven years
|
| This is a commonly recited myth about lottery winners[1].
|
| [1]:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnjennings/2023/08/29/debunki...
| teractiveodular wrote:
| There's a legendary Reddit comment that lays out the many,
| many other ways winning the lottery (or, more importantly,
| letting people know you won the lottery) is bad for you. Can
| you debunk its claims as well?
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vo34/comment/c.
| ..
| autarch wrote:
| The Reddit comment is interesting, and I think the advice
| that starts in the reply is sound. But this person's list
| of lottery winner failures is a small list of people versus
| a very large group of winners. Surely it's not hard to
| cherry pick a bunch of worst case scenarios.
| raincole wrote:
| The reddit comment says things like "Homicide (something
| like 20x more likely)" without citing the source of this
| statistics.
| croisillon wrote:
| i am still willing to experiment, for science
| dahart wrote:
| That comment makes untrue claims and cites no sources. The
| claim about multi-million dollar jackpot winners is a viral
| meme that keeps making the rounds despite the people with
| the actual stats repeatedly trying to debunk it. It is not
| true that a huge percentage of winners go bankrupt.
|
| https://www.nefe.org/news/2018/01/research-statistic-on-
| fina...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/PetPeeves/comments/18xqcbw/70_of_l
| o...
| dmonitor wrote:
| I imagine that it's perpetuated by the myth that people
| who make a shitton of money "legitimately" (ie getting
| insanely lucky by inheritance, investing in a moonshot,
| or both) are somehow magically blessed with the wisdom to
| handle money in a way that commoners are not. Plus a dash
| of cope for all the people who will never touch that
| amount of money. Assurance that even those who gain a lot
| will be no better off (or worse off) than them.
| lucianbr wrote:
| I am a little bit suspicious of Forbes saying "in fact, money
| does buy happiness". I fear they might have a little bias.
|
| I expected something like a Snopes link. Ah well.
| teractiveodular wrote:
| Assuming the "one guy [who] bought a nightclub" in question is
| jwz of Netscape fame, his blog is a trip:
|
| https://refhide.com/?https://www.jwz.org/blog/
|
| (routing through refhide because otherwise you'll get a
| testicle in an egg cup; jwz is a principled man of strong
| opinions and one of many things he loathes is HN)
| __alexander wrote:
| "The Simple Path to Wealth"might be another book recommendation
| on the wealth and investment topic.
| dcrazy wrote:
| > One guy bought a nightclub, but it loses money year after
| year.
|
| As far as I know, jwz was never a CEO, but he did the same
| thing.
| jandrese wrote:
| If you were rich enough then having the new business lose
| money isn't that big of a problem, so long as it's not
| driving you to ruin.
|
| "Sure it costs me a few hundred every month to keep the
| lights on, but it makes me happy."
|
| Honestly, I wish more rich people did stuff like this instead
| of obsessing over making more money on the stock market or
| speculating on homes or whatnot. Learn to say enough is
| enough and switch to adding back to the world instead of
| leeching off of it.
| Tepix wrote:
| Blue water sailing is pretty great (for some), give it a try.
| dahart wrote:
| > Check out what happens to lottery winners
|
| I have looked into this and found out that lottery winners are
| fine, that the viral meme about two thirds of them going
| bankrupt is not true.
|
| https://www.nefe.org/news/2018/01/research-statistic-on-fina...
|
| Most of the claims about lottery winners going bankrupt are
| uncited and unsourced. A few claims I was able to find pointed
| at this paper:
| https://eml.berkeley.edu/~cle/laborlunch/hoekstra.pdf
|
| This paper shows people winning less than $150k having
| bankruptcy rates drop for the first 2 years, and then return to
| normal 3-5 years later. Like, duh, a small amount of money will
| run out. This paper has been widely and wildly mis-quoted as
| bankruptcy rates going up after a few years, but everyone seems
| to leave out the part where bankruptcy rates went down first.
|
| The percent of people in this study who had declared bankruptcy
| after 5 years was slightly over 5%, which is the same
| bankruptcy rate as the study cohort had 2 years _before_
| winning money. 95% of lottery winners did not go bankrupt, and
| no multi-million dollar jackpot winners are involved in this
| study.
| HeartStrings wrote:
| Why aren't you suggesting angel investing?
| Animats wrote:
| Because most startups fail. Venture capital is a bulk
| business. Look at how YC works.
| toast0 wrote:
| As a way to rid yourself of excess funds, it probably works?
| Likely more effective than a sailing habit, unless you get
| into racing.
|
| But there's no need for it in your investment portfolio. Pick
| a mixture between 20/80 and 80/20 stocks/bonds, buy index
| funds and you're good. Easy and scalable... This works for
| normal money too, but you probably want a meaningful amount
| of cash and you may want to more carefully choose your
| stock/bond ratio. Maybe if you've got tens of billions you
| might need something else, but it'll probably work for that
| too.
| moffkalast wrote:
| They say a sailboat is a hole in the water you throw money
| into, so having too much of it and not knowing what to do with
| it does indeed sound like a match made in heaven.
| ivraatiems wrote:
| Here's what I don't understand: Vinay, if what you loved so much
| was the journey, why would you sell the company?
|
| Loom was your life, clearly. It meant a huge amount to you. You
| cared about it and the work you did there, so you... sold it to a
| giant multibillion dollar corporation and let them absorb
| everything special about it so they could make another buck.
|
| Was there just no way to continue on _without_ being acquired? If
| there wasn 't, then what was the value in what you were building?
| Did you just luck into a fortune?
|
| I am one of those people who thinks capitalism is largely
| worthless as a personal ideology (though not as an economic
| system). I think that because, as the author of this post has
| discovered, money is inherently _worthless_. _Success_ means
| something, but money doesn 't. Loom could have been a going
| concern. So many companies could have been. They didn't need
| infinite growth. They needed to do a good job to help their
| customers and make the world better by doing so.
|
| Nobody seems to understand or care about that anymore.
|
| If I were in your position, Vinay, I would quit my own
| retirement. I would give away as much of my money as I could,
| leaving only just enough to act as a safety net if I failed or
| had a true emergency. I'd put that money into some form of trust
| where it was difficult enough for me to access that I had to live
| within some limited means. Then I'd start another company, and,
| if it succeeded, keep it. No more acquisitions.
|
| There's no point in money except what it buys you, but you
| already had what you wanted. You made a mistake and lost it.
| You'll have to start over to get it back.
|
| (I also personally don't love AI and don't want more companies
| doing AI, but I am trying to focus on the point of this post, not
| an ex post facto discussion of Loom itself.)
| Aeolun wrote:
| Well, if you are going to study physics somewhere, Hawaii seems
| like a great place to do it. It seems like a great place to do
| many things really. Hope new year's eve was just as fun for you
| as for me :)
| upghost wrote:
| Buy a boat. Preferably a sailboat. Your money problems and
| depression will quickly solve themselves. Ask Ishmael[1] about
| it.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2701/2701-h/2701-h.htm#link2...
| intull wrote:
| I think OP's title itself answers the question -- they're
| wealthy, and most if not all things that he could really want in
| the world is a transaction away. "Constraints" are key to finding
| purpose and direction. There can be a right/optimal set of
| constraints, but when there seems to be none, any is better.
| Constraints forbid us from being able to have something in life
| (things or experiences) that we also want. When we can satisfy
| any want, it doesn't feel like the wants matter anymore. The very
| reason the want existed in the first place was because it was not
| something that was possible at the time.
|
| I'd advise OP to strategize smartly, given they have enough money
| to last a simple and full life, save, invest, donate, and keep
| the transactions small; ie. not investing or donating all or a
| majority of wealth into one thing, instead of a little bit here
| and a little bit there, every now and then, gradually and slowly.
|
| Taking it slower itself is a form of constraint. And together
| with keeping relationships and connections, minimizing the noise
| in life, and making it simpler towards enjoying the truer
| pleasures of their life, they can grow richer and live more
| luxuriously, not just in terms of wealth, but also in a safer,
| more secure and a cozier human experience.
| rramadass wrote:
| Well said.
|
| > "Constraints" are key to finding purpose and direction.
|
| I would modify this as "externally imposed constraints w.r.t.
| socially validated goals". I had come to this conclusion long
| ago based on my study of philosophy and my own life situation.
| I had to give up a software career to become a caregiver; my
| needs and wants being few and frugal with no dependents i found
| myself in a situation where i had a place stay, clothes to wear
| and enough food to eat and no "goal" in life i.e. freedom. That
| was when i realized that every goal had been imposed from
| outside and i had simply followed a socially validated path
| taking it as my own. Breaking out of this cycle means you are
| suddenly in a situation where you have to define your own goal
| from a large options menu with no constraints pushing you one
| way or another. This is when a feeling of "emptiness" dawns on
| you i.e. everything feels unnecessary/empty/worthless without
| social validation. Note that it has nothing to do with the
| amount of wealth you have but having enough for oneself based
| on how you choose to live.
|
| The _Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE)_ movement is
| very relevant here -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_movement
| dehrmann wrote:
| I'm confused. He discovered robotics is
| hard/boring/silly/whatever--that makes sense. Now he moved to
| Hawaii to study physics (over mechanical engineering) so he can
| build physical things. It seems like he's relearning the robotics
| mistake.
|
| He also had a moment where he realized how he wanted to look (or
| be seen) like Elon, and how that's so cringe. Then he goes and
| works for Elon on the "extremely important" mission of DOGE.
|
| It sounds like what he really wants is a mission where he's
| learning.
| taway1874 wrote:
| The author has two choices: 1. Learn to enjoy the freedom gained
| from his wealth and not work another day. 2. Give away ALL of it
| to charity and start over again so he can prove to himself and
| the world that it wasn't luck that made him wealthy.
|
| Rest is all noise.
| randomcatuser wrote:
| So I put this into my (WIP) AI writing app, and these were its
| thoughts on seeing the first paragraph:
|
| { "reflections": [ { "text_snippet": "Life has been a haze this
| last year. After selling my company...", "response": "This
| reminds me of Joseph Campbell's concept of 'hitting the
| wasteland' - that disorienting period after achieving what
| society told you was the ultimate goal. Campbell wrote about this
| in 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces,' describing how many
| mythological heroes face their greatest crisis not in battle, but
| in the emptiness that follows victory. There's a beautiful quote
| from his lectures: 'If you can see your path laid out in front of
| you step by step, you know it's not your path. Your own path you
| make with every step you take.'" }, { "text_snippet": "Everything
| feels like a side quest, but not in an inspiring way",
| "response": "This evokes Viktor Frankl's concept of the
| 'existential vacuum' - the state of emptiness that comes when our
| primary drive is satisfied but we haven't yet found what he calls
| our 'will to meaning.' You might find resonance in his lesser-
| known work 'The Unheard Cry for Meaning' where he writes: 'What
| man actually needs is not a tensionless state but rather the
| striving and struggling for a worthwhile goal.'" }, {
| "text_snippet": "I have infinite freedom, yet I don't know what
| to do with it", "response": "This reminds me of Kierkegaard's
| meditation on anxiety and freedom. He saw anxiety not as fear of
| external threats, but as the dizzying awareness of infinite
| possibility. In 'The Concept of Anxiety,' he describes it as 'the
| dizziness of freedom, which emerges when the spirit wants to
| posit the synthesis and freedom looks down into its own
| possibility.'" } ], "questions": [ { "personal": "What did you
| imagine freedom would feel like before you achieved this level of
| it?", "philosophical": "When you say things feel like 'side
| quests,' I'm curious - what would a 'main quest' feel like to you
| now?" } ], "closing_thought": "Your situation reminds me of
| Hermann Hesse's Siddhartha after he became a wealthy merchant. He
| had everything, yet felt a profound emptiness that eventually led
| him to his true path. Sometimes the void itself becomes the
| doorway to something deeper." }
|
| ---
|
| Really cool to read the comments in this thread & see the real-
| life advice of people who have been in these situations too!
| oglop wrote:
| If you want to see how shallow and utterly stupid anyone in tech
| is that has money, read this post. It is golden. I was doubled
| over laughing at the DOGE part. What a chud. And they say the
| rich know how to use capital. No, they don't. They're just like
| you and me and it's mostly just to get their rocks off. Typical
| HN trash.
| fishcakes wrote:
| Strongly recommend tiger21 - which is an amazing community of
| people dealing with the positives and negatives of wealth. I have
| found it immensely helpful.
|
| Message me if you are interested.
|
| Tiger21.com
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Personally if I were in those shoes, I would focus on
| contributing directly to open source projects, both directly by
| volunteering, and financially. Its worthwhile work that has major
| impact, and you don't need to work 24/7 if you don't want to.
| VyseofArcadia wrote:
| I'll take the money. I've got a bajillion things I want to work
| on and not enough time because I have to spend 40 hours a week at
| my day job. Give me enough money to live on passive income, and I
| will just work on self-directed interesting things.
|
| I mean I will also probably spend about the first three months
| just catching up on video games, but after that I have a couple
| of mpd plugins I've been meaning to write, and that's just for
| starters.
| SavageBeast wrote:
| If you're feeling too rich you don't need to cure it by donating
| all your money etc. Simply buy a jet and make fancy friends. Soon
| you wont be rich anymore, your existential dilemma will vanish
| and you can get back to working.
| whamlastxmas wrote:
| I don't believe in giving advice, I don't assume to know what's
| best for you. I'm not rich and have had a mediocre developer
| career but I have found contentment and fulfillment in personal
| development. I have learned to be an unconditionally kind and
| loving person to everyone, even the most difficult of people, and
| to me this is a forever challenging and fulfilling role to play
| that also provides me a sense of identity. I value developing
| relationships with humans. I like hearing their stories and
| getting to know them and learning to be mutually vulnerable in
| loving, kind ways. I think all we really have is each other, and
| I think a lot of people would find this to be a really fulfilling
| way to live their lives.
| wruza wrote:
| Of course it's therapy. He should find a good non-rich CBT
| therapist (just for the sake of not falling prey of rich-man-
| wive's leeches type) and start asking questions on why he's not
| at ease with the success. Something sabotages it, and that
| something may be some a random (now obsolete) belief/mode he
| picked growing up. Uproot obsolete beliefs, these are drivers,
| not goals. This is absolutely manageable, especially with so much
| time on your hands and relatively limitless possibilities.
|
| I don't think that community/society advices itt are on point,
| because the author doesn't express particular interest in socio
| things. Giving something up to feel good is not a bad thing, but
| it's not a complete-able thing either. It's still symptomatic
| despite being generally positive.
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| > just for the sake of not falling prey of rich-man-wive's
| leeches type
|
| pardon?
| wruza wrote:
| Some therapists work as a cry napkin without even trying to
| solve or detect any underlying problem.
| KPGv2 wrote:
| > NPC coworkers
|
| I suppose "the author can go fuck himself" is a frowned-upon
| response on Hacker News
|
| Like what an incredibly egocentric, condescending, deplorable way
| to talk about other human beings with their own rich inner lives,
| desires, needs, relationships, etc.
|
| "No, they're just pre-programmed, unthinking bots following basic
| algorithms."
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| I've long been of the opinion that you can't love others until
| you love yourself. Between the NPC comment and breaking up with
| his girlfriend, I'd say he has a long way to go, if he ever
| gets there at all. Hope he does.
| crnkofe wrote:
| Hard to stomach but you can't deny honesty. I wouldn't be
| surprised that more business high brass people think that way
| about the workers but are smart enough not to be open about
| it.
|
| Otherwise the guy doesn't seem to be having a crisis at all.
| The problem is he's been doing business for the past 10
| years. Likely put in a lot more hours than needed. Now
| business is all he knows and catching up to doing something
| more meaningful is hard.
| kk6mrp wrote:
| How about, "through loving others, you find a reason to love
| yourself?"
| arkensaw wrote:
| It reminds me of the Sheeple comic from xkcd. It's common for
| people to fall into the mental pattern of thinking everyone
| else is a mindless drone.
|
| Our brains are not evolved for the scale of human civilisation.
| The mind rebels trying to accept that 8 billion people have as
| much going on (or more) than you do.
|
| "NPC coworkers" is a provocative way of phrasing it, but
| yesterday I saw another HN commenter say "We all know that
| society is propped up by people going to work and doing nothing
| much of value". This is mostly the same mindset.
| yowayb wrote:
| I'm not rich but after my first exit I went crazy investing in
| friends' ideas (including over-decorating my tiny SF apartment)
| and I actually came out a little ahead but I never bothered the
| failures because I was never expecting a return. It was super fun
| and I highly recommend it especially if you're rich.
| paxys wrote:
| The author knows exactly what he wants to do. He wants to be Elon
| Musk. Sadly despite his successful exit he is still many orders
| of magnitude away from that level of wealth and power. I hope he
| can find satisfaction in lesser causes, otherwise he is going to
| live an unhappy life.
| psyclobe wrote:
| You can pay off all my debts if you're bored ;)
| semireg wrote:
| I spent my 30s in a VLCOL (very low cost of living) city. I'm now
| in my 40s and each year my sentimental feelings somehow keep
| growing. The small things in life: a local art museum, the local
| YMCA and its pickleball playing seniors, sauna, inline skating
| around lake paths, road cycling, local coffee roasters, a small
| upstart Italian restaurant, and of course my young kids. I'm
| absolutely in love with these things in a way that isn't directly
| coming from them or a product or service... it's coming from
| within me. Deep satisfaction. Not necessarily happiness. Somehow,
| these things define me in ways my business never can/could. I'm a
| participant in my community and it feels SO GOOD. I could
| optimize for something else ... something "out there" but then
| what?
|
| https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherma...
| iandanforth wrote:
| Good lord. I don't care if Silicon Valley was wrapped up in 2019.
| They need to make another episode which is nothing but a
| reenactment of this blog post.
| teucris wrote:
| There are so many incredible ideas, projects, inventions, songs,
| books, movies, video games, etc. that will never see the light of
| day because the brilliant person or team who could make it can't
| afford to stop working for long enough to create them. Find
| things that excite you and help them become a reality.
| stego-tech wrote:
| The unspoken and oft-forgotten part of the "immense wealth"
| agreement is that, unshackled from the need to work to survive in
| perpetuity, you are also free to give yourself and your time to
| causes who otherwise would never afford to pay for your skills.
| My plan - should I ever reach that level of unfathomable wealth,
| as statistically unlikely as it is even for my privileged
| upbringing - is to eventually divide my time between IT work for
| the local school system/town government and running a small,
| tech-focused community center (think LAN center + board game
| tables + maker lab) out of my own pocket; the former for the
| benefits more than the salary (healthcare is _expensive_ ), the
| latter to give the local youth a place to hang out that doesn't
| require continuous outflows of money or a credit card.
|
| So my advice to anyone, really, is to always consider what you'd
| do with your life if money were no longer the chief concern of
| it, and to find more ways of incorporating that into your life
| until and unless such a time arises. Whatever you do, though,
| should be in the interest of uplifting others rather than
| yourself (you _won Capitalism_ by reaching this point, after
| all). That provides a fulfillment every human ultimately needs in
| some form.
| lutusp wrote:
| We're all players in a game called evolution. This means we're
| biologically designed to cope with adversity, not success. The
| real contest in life is between closely matched organisms, each
| having only a small chance to survive.
|
| Being a creature that's 1% more or less appropriate to its
| environment (not too smart or dull, not too strong or weak) is
| the actual game. Everything else is random noise. This means
| becoming spectacularly successful makes you irrelevant -- a
| spectator.
|
| This can lead to artificial contests, between organisms that have
| already won the primary contest. So, after saying, "Wait, what
| now?", people invent make-believe goals -- climb mountains, make
| even more money, learn to cook a perfect omelette -- hoping to
| restore a sense of purpose.
|
| In this non-contest, the least successful burn out, maybe even
| die prematurely. The most successful invent an imaginary,
| artificial goal that turns into a real advance. Transistors.
| Lasers. Antibiotics. Things that weren't really necessary until
| they appeared and, by existing, became their own reason to exist.
|
| So ... done climbing mountains? Choose an important, unsolved
| problem and work on it. The problem list is long and deserving:
| Batteries. Cancer. Population. Late-stage
| capitalism. People who want to kill everyone who doesn't
| share their beliefs.
|
| Not necessarily in that order.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| Shit. At the very least. Just travel. Via hostels or a PJ. Take
| pretty pictures. Make people smile or spark their imagination.
| Easy.
|
| Can get rich but can suss this out. More common than not
| 50208 wrote:
| Great example of tech bros getting way to much compensation for
| not much ... and also not knowing how to live a basic human life.
| I would like to see their wealth taxed to the hilt so they can go
| back to work and stfu.
| arthurofbabylon wrote:
| The author thinks this is a novel or rare position (+) to be in,
| however it's actually fairly common and most people resolve it
| relatively easily by being with other people. The point is
| integration, not separation.
|
| Those chasing prestige, and programmed to chase prestige from
| childhood, often do not know that prestige is a form of
| separation. They think that once their respect with their peers
| rises they will feel more connected, or more connected with
| better people. This is all wrong - connection is fostered by
| humility. (Hiking large, easy mountains might look impressive yet
| it is not an antidote to loneliness and isolation.) Prestige is
| like a drug: attaining it often makes a person hungrier for more.
| Prestige, at its best, is a tool to accomplish good things, and
| nothing more.
|
| I suggest the author find hyper-local challenges with direct and
| obvious impact... maybe volunteering with the mentally ill, or
| cooking for large groups, or tutoring in math/physics. Of course
| these aren't prestigious, and I sadly doubt the author will be
| interested (and hope to be proven wrong).
|
| A note regarding "purpose": I believe purpose is a misleading
| solution. Most of us can conjure purpose - the key is to close
| the feedback loop by acting on it in a way that draws one closer
| to community.
|
| (+ Footnote: The author may think their wealth is a distinctive
| quirk of their predicament; it is not. The defining
| characteristic is freedom and space, and a lot of people are in
| this position, regardless of net-worth. I hope the author looks
| beyond other rich people to find solutions.)
| jasonhong wrote:
| I was in a somewhat similar position as the OP, having had a
| successful exit many years ago and trying to figure things out. I
| was lucky that I still had a faculty position at a top
| university, young kids, and a good family to help ground me and
| guide me.
|
| My general take on things is this: money is one of the closest
| things we have to a superpower in this world. With enough money,
| you can build new things, make steps toward solving hard
| problems, and influence people and organizations to do things you
| want.
|
| Given all this, what kind of world would you want to live in? And
| with your newfound superpower, what kind of steps can you take
| that might get us closer to that world?
|
| Now, of course, this path is fraught with many challenges and
| dangers (especially as evidenced by so many superpowered
| billionaires around the world that want us to live in an
| oligarchy, but that's a rant for another day). Instead, I'll end
| by sharing a few things that have helped shape my thinking about
| how I spend my time and what kind of positive impact I want to
| make on the world:
|
| - https://whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu/power/wealth.html
|
| - John Rawls on the Veil of Ignorance and the original position
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_position
|
| - Prof. Michael Sandel (Harvard) on Justice: What's the Right
| Thing to do?
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBdfcR-8hEY&list=PL30C13C91C...
|
| - Prof. Robert Reich's course on Wealth and Poverty (former US
| Sec of Labor)
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f2blKai7HA&list=PLOLArO56vj...
|
| There's also an interview with a sci-fi author (Ted Chiang I
| believe, but I can't find it to confirm), that also posed an
| interesting question: what is your ideal world, and what steps
| are you taking to help us get closer to that world? For me, it's
| Star Trek, not the space exploration part (though that's cool),
| but the idea that Earth has become a planet where things like
| war, poverty, hunger, racism, and xenophobia are things in the
| far past, and every person can achieve their full potential. I
| know cynics will scoff, but that's a world I'd like to live in,
| and one I'm trying to use my superpowers to get to.
| aor215 wrote:
| I don't think anything will help the author as much as giving a
| bunch of money away. I grew up in a community where I met good
| number of very rich people with inherited wealth and every one of
| them is depressed or has some other issue--hypochondria, feelings
| of inadequacy, or some strange striving for significance through
| conspicuous consumption which is, of course, ultimately
| unfulfilling, etc. The root cause in all these cases, in my view,
| is the money. Just give it away and face the fear of engaging
| with the world again.
| crakhamster01 wrote:
| I can definitely sympathize with this guy. I imagine selling your
| company, coming into immense wealth, and losing your identity of
| ~10 years can really mess up an individual.
|
| But at the same time... this seems rich coming from the dude who
| co-founded Loom. Calling his ex-coworkers NPCs and believing he's
| qualified to streamline the US government - all because he built
| a glorified screen recorder? Have some humility LOL.
| not_a_bot_4sho wrote:
| After repeatedly mentioning talking/recruiting the "smartest
| people" around DOGE, that was enough to know this person's
| opinion isn't very important. Or more to the point, it's not an
| honest objective take.
|
| Sort of like a TV or movie award show, with everyone praising
| everyone else's "genius".
|
| Reads more like in-group flattery to establish position within
| the group.
|
| But what do I know, I'm not tres commas rich.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Despite his best channeling of Russ Hanneman, he is one comma
| short of the _tres comma_ club. Maybe his new passion in life
| will be getting his net worth to a billion dollars.
| maxehmookau wrote:
| > Calling his ex-coworkers NPCs and believing he's qualified to
| streamline the US government - all because he built a glorified
| screen recorder? Have some humility LOL.
|
| This is basically Elon Musk's MO. Except it was shiny cars and
| not a screen recorder.
| fblp wrote:
| There are 739 comments in this thread and only one of them
| mentions emotion. That comment is suggesting the appropiate
| emotion is gratitude.
|
| I'd go further and suggest you take your time and resources to
| learn about your emotional state and regulate your emotions so
| you can help others do the same. Find what you want to be a
| student of from that calm, content emotional state and with less
| attachment on how to live your life you will likely find more
| clarity.
| holoduke wrote:
| Same situation but 10 years ago. My advice would be to put all
| your money in stocks and live just like you always did. Find a
| normal job. Buy a normal house and car. Its great to never ever
| think about money. Live moderate. Don't show off. You stocks
| income will be roughly 2.5m a year btw.
| aptsurdist wrote:
| Just one idea for making a positive impact while meeting amazing
| communities of folks: Invest in early stage climate startups (and
| not just software ones). They're struggling and they're building
| stuff that we'll desperately need to survive.
| mgh2 wrote:
| Reference: his cofounder
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbCdBFnZbM
| seunosewa wrote:
| He should spend more time with his family since he already left
| his partner.
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| The best thing that ever could happen to Elon Musk is for him to
| start over with just 200k in the bank, and no assets other than a
| modest house.
|
| Stay hungry my friend.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| It's "rappel," not "repel."
| lxe wrote:
| This reads like a bit from Silicon Valley the TV series... is
| this parody?
| RGamma wrote:
| This past decade I repeatedly found reality to be its own
| parody. Even the South Park authors admitted to it in 2017 (!).
|
| > The Donald Trump administration is too difficult to satirise
| because it is funny enough on its own, say Trey Parker and Matt
| Stone, the creators of South Park.
|
| > While the most recent series of their animated sitcom
| featured a character that clearly resembles Mr Trump, the pair
| made the decision to "back off" making fun of the latest US
| political events.
|
| > "It's tricky now because satire has become reality," Parker
| told 7.30.
|
| https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-02/donald-trump-too-hard...
|
| Now this DOGE (hue hue) crap is yet again on a whole other
| level, but you get unnervingly used to madness. Only bona fide
| dadaism could still top it.
|
| So yes, this is probably real.
| noisy_boy wrote:
| I think if you are doing things just to keep yourself busy or
| self-focused stuff like learning a language or playing an
| instrument, you will eventually hit the wall of motivation
| created by lack of necessity when your financial needs are
| already met forever. Definitely do them to keep life interesting
| but don't expect that much from these activities (unless you are
| like crazy passionate about any of them, in which case,
| congratulations, you found your true purpose).
|
| I believe you'll need to have goals that involve improving lives
| of those that most need it. Of course it is more complicated than
| just that - there will be disappointments, betrayal and all other
| stuff that comes with getting other people involved but the key
| is to do it based on purpose, with a calm head, clear goal and
| less on fumes of emotion to manage such pitfalls better. You can
| let that emotion out when you see the unprivileged child you
| mentored succeed - I would wager that that moment will outweigh
| practically any joy you could feel from solely self focused
| achievements.
| RainyDayTmrw wrote:
| More than anything else, this just strikes me as tone-deaf.
| Doubly so given where we are with the economy and everything.
| lawgimenez wrote:
| I'm not in the US or San Francisco, I totally don't get the
| purpose of this post. It's like dude's living in a bubble after
| all this time. Dude should travel to poorer countries (like where
| I'm from right now) and get some inspiration.
| amrocha wrote:
| It's very interesting to me that the author realizes he knows
| nothing about physics and robotics, but feels justified in
| talking about "saving the government" even though he also doesn't
| understand economics.
|
| This entire post is about having more money than you know what to
| do with. Very strange.
| Pxtl wrote:
| Do none of these people have any creativity at all? No artistic
| spark that wants to be brought out but never could because art
| isn't really a profitable career?
|
| Like it's the same thing that boggles my mind with Elon. All that
| success and he seems to destroy it by making himself miserable
| begging for approval on Twitter.
| joshcsimmons wrote:
| Absolutely childish.
|
| I felt similar when I finished my PhD. It was the singular
| "thing" in my life to the exclusion of all others. Luckily I was
| 150k in debt so I didn't have the luxury of acting like a buffoon
| for months.
|
| Man if I was rich I'd donate half, invest half, and go back to
| stocking a small family owned grocery store like when I was in
| high school. I really enjoyed that job.
| hnarayanan wrote:
| I didn't have any debt and I attempted suicide. What an idiot
| move.
| nevertoolate wrote:
| Hey,
|
| You are talking about money. You are talking about girlfriend.
| You always think about possessing.
|
| If you are fishing for some suggestions I'd first find a good
| personal trainer and fix the body. At the same time join a career
| change counseling group workshop.
|
| Don't let others do things for you. Walk everywhere, use a
| bicycle. Also cooking kills some time.
|
| Good luck
| reducesuffering wrote:
| There was a founder in a similar situation who sold their company
| (Tsheets to Intuit) for $300m as part of an acquisition and
| checked out after. Employees say he lost his purpose and became
| unmoored, with no grounded next steps for years. He ended up
| attempting to kill his wife and killed himself.
|
| https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article27507...
| aatd86 wrote:
| Bro has all the spare time to try and build AGI. That's software
| with datq acquisition and stored procedures. I would do that.
| whatever1 wrote:
| Buy a social media outlet and waste your day and night there
| lancewiggs wrote:
| If you want a challenge, there is one that exceeds and trumps all
| others - the climate crisis.
| tills13 wrote:
| guy sounds like he's the type of person to "not believe" in
| that
| gloosx wrote:
| What's loom? This app for screen recording?? A terrible product,
| I personally hated every second of using it, yet my bosses were
| pissing rainbows and insisted on everyone using it. Congratz on
| taking a shitload of corporate money in your pocket for this.
| Truly impressive job! And I'm in a good way envy you.
|
| There is an impression that money made you unhappy, or at least
| it made you realise something. But you must always remember that
| loosing everything is just as easy as hard it was to get. Feels
| like you're really chill and sophisticated guy, but you need to
| spend more time alone and eventually you'll think these things
| through
| antman wrote:
| Using the correct words such as "gratitude" but pretty much
| missing the point. I no place do you mention you took help or how
| it affected your pre startup personal life.
|
| If one doesn't have principles based on life meaning, optimizing
| metrics is a good way of calming down your urges but it the end
| it does not work. How can you tell it doesn't work? Simply
| because your feedback loop stops giving you the dopamine response
| you expect and you need to escalate just to calm down. Far away
| travels, dangerous actions, more expensive stuff even tried to
| get into an DOGE without even knowing what the problem with DOGE
| -smart- thinkers is because philosophy, political science or
| history apparently hasn't been your life's focus. You still
| consider it important, that it was a very intelligent group they
| allowed you in, without figuring out what was wrong with their
| whole premise. It would be apparent to a first year social
| sciences student, someone who has visited a Tesla factory o to
| someone from a country with a sizeable functioning government
| that has not been a victim of corporate capture for decades.
|
| Money is important, but if I were I would beg my girlfriend back
| if it was a relationship of feelings, try to reconnect with some
| friends and family that were probably lost during this multi year
| grind, people you will be considering as boring because no
| dopamine. Ask then how they are doing, play with their kids see
| why they are not boring. Read some Gabor Mate and Irvin Yalom and
| have just one main goal: Being able after 2-3 years to lie down
| in the grass for a couple of hours,doing nothing, just looking at
| the stars, being calm without your nervous system randomly
| spiking and pushing you towards chaos. Talk to people who don't
| know you are rich, try to learn from them. Avoid extreme
| environments.
|
| Currently you describe a nervous system that seems to be taking
| important decisions for meaningless actions which you then
| rationalize. Not admitting any mistakes, not failing since there
| were no goals in the first place other than grinding.
|
| I know that, been there, done that, I am still there, I am not
| getting out anytime soon either. There are many people in that
| status, that is not special either.
| fsckboy wrote:
| I really want to hear the ex gf's side of the story
| mylasttour wrote:
| It's unfortunate that this is a good cautionary tale for women
| who choose to play the "unconditionally loving wife" role for
| boyfriends.
| evilotto wrote:
| Boo fucking hoo. Oh, pity me, I'm rich and sad. What ever will I
| do with all my money that will make me happy?
|
| You don't need purpose, you need perspective.
|
| Instead of benefiting the billionaire class by working with DOGE
| to tear down what little safety nets we do have, go volunteer to
| pack meals or drive a truck at your local food bank.
| https://www.sfmfoodbank.org/volunteer/
|
| They'll be a lot less judgemental than I am.
| richthrowaway wrote:
| So, I managed to get in the same situation last year too. Not as
| much $$$, but still in the 'no longer have to work' and 'my
| family will never be poor again' camp here.
|
| Honestly, yeah, I feel you man. I'm a bit adrift. I had a bad
| childhood too. I largely defined myself through my work and
| effort. I saw other people (mostly older co-workers in my career)
| as NPCs. I majored in Physics, PHD in neuro. I might get it, I
| dunno.
|
| But I have a family, and that changes things a lot for me. I have
| built in 'purpose' in my life that is orthogonal to my 'work
| life'. So, caveats there. Now, work life comes after kid-time, in
| terms of priority.
|
| The things that I can say that are different is that I'm finding
| purpose through others. The way I see it: We're all just naked
| beach apes on a soggy rock flung through the void, telling
| stories to each other around the fire.
|
| So, tell the stories that matter.
|
| I.E. get to work trying to help other people. You have the fuck
| you money now, like me, it would be a shame to not say 'fuck you'
| a few times. To the people that really need it said to them. This
| is gonna sound really strange for HN, but, maybe start going to
| religious services. Generally, religion is there to comfort the
| afflicted and afflict the comfortable. That's maybe something you
| sound like you need. Shop around for churches/mosques/etc.
| Unitarian Universalist is the 'church' for atheists, pretty old
| too, not a 'new' thing. It's good to get into a community that
| does a lot of volunteer work, FYI.
|
| You said you found an iota of purpose with the DOGE thingy. Maybe
| try breaking that down a bit for yourself, explore why those
| feeling came up. You're a go-getter, ready and willing to work
| hard. It does sound like some sort of public service (define that
| as broadly as you can) would be good for you, and for all of us.
|
| Still, we're both 'babies' at being rich. It's gonna take some
| time, maybe longer than we have left, to figure that out for
| ourselves.
|
| One real thing though: Get your GF back, fast. Grovel. You'll
| find nothing but gold-diggers now, it's just a fact, I'm so sorry
| about it. She was there before you were rich (I think I read that
| right?), you know she's in it for you, not the cash. From what
| you said, she doesn't mind the hours you work. Or just you in
| general. That's a tremendous gift. If you want the kids, she's
| the best path you got for a family you're not paranoid about.
| Really. Marriage is a market, and you're hot property now, be
| very careful. Honestly, if you can get her back, fuck that pre-
| nup shit too. Jump in with both feet, never leave, tie yourself
| up, make it really hard to go. Your future self will hate you,
| but that guy's future self will love you.
|
| Best of luck man. Take the time, forgive yourself for dumb shit
| as you get used to it. Get back to work and say fuck you a bit
| more for the right reasons. You sound like a chill dude who is
| trying hard. Keep that vibe.
| etc-hosts wrote:
| have you tried deep sea exploration in an experimental vessel?
| diimdeep wrote:
| That is how famous mythical genius from the woods with a
| background in physics was born, with the swiftness of a single
| blog post.
|
| > billionaires want you to know they could have done physics
| https://youtu.be/GmJI6qIqURA?t=1271
| cynicalsecurity wrote:
| He looks like a perfect victim for a cult. I can't help him
| though.
| godelmachine wrote:
| Just an essay in ego-bashing and showing off. While I don't deny
| the author is self-made, highly successful for his age and ultra-
| rich, this essay is just an attempt to stroke his ego.
|
| It's evident in the paragraph below where he said he's leaving
| DOGE to "save our government". The writer lacks clarity and
| coherence of thought. How exactly is he saving the government
| after his DOGE stint?
|
| >> _So, after 4 intense and intoxicating weeks, I called off my
| plans to move to DC and embark on a journey to save our
| government with some of the smartest people I've ever met. And I
| booked a 1-way ticket to Hawaii.
|
| Studying physics in the jungle, focusing on my insecurities
|
| So now I'm in Hawaii. I'm learning physics. Why? The reason I
| tell myself is to build up my first principles foundation so I
| can start a company that manufactures real world things. It seems
| plausible, but I'm learning to just accept that I am happy
| learning physics. That's the goal in and of itself._
| HaZeust wrote:
| Have you ever written anything as introspective as this post,
| particularly about your own personal shortcomings in a public
| forum? He seems to still have ego in some sectors of life - as
| don't we all - but most of the blog was incredibly reflective
| and self-critical. Can you say you've endeavored to do the
| same?
| godelmachine wrote:
| Yes, many a times.
| HaZeust wrote:
| Links? I liked this post - wouldn't mind seeing one of
| yours!
| psb217 wrote:
| How is any of this introspective, reflective, or self-
| critical? The author was a caricature of silicon valley tech
| bro-ness throughout, followed by a final return to form by
| deciding to "study physics" in order to start another company
| and sound smart at VC parties. He ended where he started, and
| managed to produce a carbon copy blog post about how great
| fortune doesn't solve all problems somewhere along the way.
| The only thing missing was spiritual enlightenment and self-
| discovery through some combination of drugs or a trip to
| burning man.
| HaZeust wrote:
| If you can't read the paragraphs where he goes over several
| of his flaws and how they led to his failures, shortcomings
| and misses in several aspects of his life - both personal
| and professional - I don't know what to tell you.
| psb217 wrote:
| Yes, I read the whole thing, thanks. It's the standard
| form letter for people who beat the startup game after a
| life of mindless career-maxing. To me, this sort of thing
| reads as humble-braggy, faux-introspective slop. Now he
| can point to this blog and say: "I'm so brave for
| acknowledging my flaws", while avoiding any real effort
| to change.
| brap wrote:
| This guy got lucky selling a screen recording app and now he
| thinks he's Iron Man. His next few years are going to be a
| humbling experience.
| lnsru wrote:
| I am curious how it was to work under his rule. I don't feel
| any harmony. No harmony combined with wealth does not
| guarantee bright happy future.
| bazmattaz wrote:
| I honestly don't understand how Loom sold for so much. It was
| just screen recording. What was different about it?
| mikkelam wrote:
| AI
| kody wrote:
| Your coworker could download it, record a screencap, and IM
| you the URL very easily, with a Fisher Price UI. I'm not
| surprised it took off.
| vortegne wrote:
| I think you misread it, he called off his plans to save the
| government.
|
| (not defending him, guy is delusional and a douche)
| romanobro56 wrote:
| Here's a take I haven't read yet: I have no sympathy to offer
| you.
|
| Living organisms probably started as some self replicating RNA.
| Already a beautiful, complex creation of our Mother Earth. After
| eons of constant struggle for survival and resources,
| miraculously the consciousness emerged. Our kind, of millions of
| distinct species is the sole avatar able to perceive just about
| every aspect our planet has to offer AND reflect on them and our
| own existence. Tens of thousands of years of more struggle, each
| generation of our kin building on the teachings of generations
| past; from existing as specks roaming the face of the earth at
| the mercy of Mother Nature, to organizing as civilizations, and
| finally building robust systems that supply billions of people
| with necessities, give a voice to the people and escape serfdom
| and slavery (a process that's still ongoing). A quirk of our
| capitalist system is that it __allows for__ and __benefits from__
| individuals like yourself who can work extraordinarily hard to
| create lots of value. And naturally, you are rewarded with the
| profound ability to DO ANYTHING YOU WANT, HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT,
| GO ANYWHERE YOU WANT (of the external aspects of your life). You
| have conquered all of existence.
|
| You like climbing mountains. Imagine Everest but 1000 times
| higher. Imagine every living thing ever blindly climbing up with
| all their might, and their offspring spawns from their corpse
| when they die. Some fall. What you did was make it to the very
| PEAK of this impossibly, unimaginably large mountain of
| existence. You look out and you see nothing (because it's so
| large, of course). Please, it's okay to be confused. Don't be
| scared. Take your time. You earned it. Don't be upset that
| there's nothing above for you to keep climbing. You have some
| options. Lay at the top forever (boring, lonely). Or, try to
| bring a few people up with you. Or, make it your mission to help
| as many people scale higher as possible. But what I think you
| might need, is to come back down - give up what you have or
| detach your self from the idea of being at the top. Much love
| brother, I think you are pretty cool. I would love to chat if you
| are down, I'll send you an email.
| dyncheng3109 wrote:
| Here's an idea!
|
| The biggest challenge I see - the economy is about to be
| transformed dramatically. AI systems may replace much or all of
| cognitive labor, and soon afterwards manual labor via robotics.
| Labor displacement, inequality, hupercapitalism, you name it.
|
| We have no good theses on how to handle this transition, or the
| role of governments in making sure this goes well for people. We
| need economic policies and strategies to improve human outcomes
| post-transition.
|
| If you don't care about money, I can't think of anything more
| impactful than this work. Ping me @ Convergence Analysis if it's
| of interest
| brap wrote:
| >NPC coworkers
|
| Imagine being a whole ass person living a whole ass life and
| getting called an NPC by someone who barely took the time to get
| to know you
| nprateem wrote:
| Unfortunately can't retire yet but have had enough time off to
| know how boring having no purpose is.
|
| But I'm working on it anyway.
|
| The only thing I want is to know my future is secure, have enough
| passive income/savings to be able to meditate.
|
| I've seen for myself that thoughts just throw you off balance,
| and it's possible to be deeply contented just with the present
| moment. But the last thing I wanted to do was run a business or
| do work in that state.
|
| I want to get loaded so I can just slip back into that state of
| contentment, then teach it. That's all.
|
| But pursing experiences isn't the way to get there. I can see why
| someone would write a post like this.
| hyperific wrote:
| Do something positive for the environment, like supporting the
| development of cheap sustainable plant-based packaging.
| skirge wrote:
| My grandma has same problem when her only cow died. Now I
| understand why elderly women meditate.
| mproud wrote:
| It sounds like the author is just trying to aimlessly find
| something to lose themself in, as if what they need to do has to
| be the most important thing ever done.
|
| Maybe satisfaction comes to those who can make a difference with
| others more directly. Author should consider volunteer work, or
| working for a non-profit. Maybe just be a regular worker, and not
| the boss for a change. Learn to listen and be OK with following
| orders for once.
| papaver wrote:
| "Most ambitions are either achieved or abandoned; either way,
| they belong to the past. The future, instead of the ladder toward
| the goals of life, flattens out into a perpetual present. Money,
| status, all the vanities the preacher of Ecclesiastes described,
| hold so little interest: a chasing after wind, indeed." - Paul
| Kalanithi
| thefz wrote:
| _clears throat_
|
| fuck you.
| light_triad wrote:
| This is an interesting read. After years of conversations with
| folks in SV all over the socioeconomic ladder I've concluded
| they're 2 types of thinking:
|
| - type 1 "employee thinking": focused on status, TC, consumption,
| vacation time, free time for hobbies
|
| - type 2 "founder thinking": it's about how much value you create
| for other people
|
| We (almost) all grow up and are formatted in type 1 - we look for
| a good "role" that brings wealth and status. The problem is when
| you have access to type 2 but are trapped in type 1, which seems
| to be the case here (the frame is about gaining money and
| status).
|
| The funny thing is you can be incredibly rich, and a founder, and
| still think like an "employee" without ever being able to get out
| of it. Conversely you can be poor but think like a "founder" it's
| not so much about the money. In type 2, as you get richer, the
| scale of your impact grows and the value you can create gets
| bigger beyond your personal circumstances. Type 1 is not
| necessarily negative at all, but also can be a trap.
| marhee wrote:
| I believe one of the founders of Booking.com has had some similar
| experience (source: "De Machine", the book about Booking.com) and
| after 4 years of travelings & yoga etc. he sneaked back in into
| the company. Most of his coworkers do not know he's a founder.
| He's been fixing Perl bugs, writing scripts and coding some
| features at least for some years (maybe he's moved on already,
| don't know, the book is a couple of years old).
| raybb wrote:
| Sounds like a great book. Did you happen to read it in English?
| Ask because my brief search for it shows at least one review
| saying it's a bad translation.
|
| Link to more info for those interested:
|
| https://openlibrary.org/books/OL57401616M/The_Machine
|
| https://www.lebowskipublishers.nl/boek/2257/stijn-bronzwaer-...
| marhee wrote:
| I read it in Dutch.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| I can't imagine a world where I wouldn't know what to do.
|
| There is diarrhea on my building, trash in the street, people
| needing medical help in the alley, and potholes in the street.
|
| Just walk out your front door and start doing things.
|
| My recent triumph was getting a building owner on my street to
| finally repair the hole in front of their building. Imagine what
| I could do with a backhoe.
|
| Start small, think big. Help people who deserve it in real,
| honest (typically not through the computer) ways.
|
| I'd much rather be less wealthy in that way to be rich in this
| way.
| ediatedia wrote:
| The author seems to wear their support of capitalism "on their
| sleeve", so acting in their self-interest is endemic. At the
| risk of sounding bitter, I imagine these problems aren't trendy
| enough to solve yet, or maybe they just had something akin to
| blinkers on en route to their hike.
| cjrp wrote:
| I always think if I won the lottery, I'd love to just make my
| local town awesome. Fund the schools, pay for parks, buy empty
| retail units and make them community spaces for artists. That
| sort of thing.
| blipss wrote:
| Author doesn't look like he cares much about other people. Dude
| left a job making 60 mil because of "NPCs and politics"... You
| could fund a school with that kind of many and still have
| enough to brag about your gaming setup
| ryukoposting wrote:
| Ah, but you don't understand! Those are NPC activities! You
| must join DOGE to have in impact!
|
| I hope I'm never such a loser that I actually believe what I
| just wrote.
| arolihas wrote:
| That would require him to care about his local community. Not a
| single one of these dudes give a shit about SF beyond how it
| can make them money.
| dyauspitr wrote:
| I took about a year and a half off because I could afford it
| and I did so much and had such a good time I could do it
| forever. Freedom is wasted on this guy.
| elliotto wrote:
| The classic rich guy to Himalayas pipeline. He went to the
| poorest country in Asia and was dragged up island peak and
| lobuche east by people making $1000/yr while he has $60m in his
| pocket and can't come up with anything worthwhile to do with his
| time or money beyond aspiring to be Elon. He can't even spell
| rappel correctly. What a coward
| parski wrote:
| Super cringe. Read a book.
| conradfr wrote:
| He actually did the "it's not you it's me" routine, I hear George
| Costanza invented it.
| DiscourseFan wrote:
| My dearest memories are with friends and lovers, I miss the
| former and can't always have the latter; if I had all the money
| in the world I would use it to spend more time with the people I
| love and care about.
| fomocosch wrote:
| I guess im not rich as you so you can give me some of your money,
| because then I'll be able to think what rich people do so I'll
| give you some ideas what you can do m8.
| theyinwhy wrote:
| So he hired the best and brightest to advance Musk's fascist
| agenda. What could possibly go wrong?
| 999900000999 wrote:
| What a great problem to have.
|
| I missed my chance like an idiot, but I originally was going to
| take a long vacation with a modest 50k saved up. I figured that's
| at least 6 months in less expensive countries with 20k remaining
| when I come back.
|
| Then I basically had the worst year ever.
|
| How I wish I took that vacation.
|
| But here's a startup comp idea. Pay a 25% sign on bonus, with the
| expectation that your not allowed to do any paid work for 6
| months.
|
| Travel , spend time with family, work on that play.
|
| Then when you get back to Soul Crush Inc you can present new
| ideas.
|
| But I'd also pay below market overall.
| pluc wrote:
| "There's nothing at the top but a bucket and a mop and an
| illustrated book about birds."
| marsten wrote:
| When I was at Google during the IPO I saw people with similar
| challenges. I can empathize with what he's going through, it can
| be hard to find a sense of purpose when "the need to provide" is
| suddenly gone and you realize that many of your life choices were
| made based on that goal.
|
| I can also empathize with those who consider him a whiny brat.
| It's hard to get someone to care about your plight when in their
| eyes you've achieved success. It's just different levels on
| Maslow's hierarchy.
| anon-3988 wrote:
| The happiness state is not an absolute value, it is the
| derivative. It explains why even people in the most shittiest
| situation can be "happy". Otherwise, once you have your 5 basic
| needs you would become perfectly content.
|
| We are not evolved to become happy, we evolve to strive to become
| happy. But this is a trick, there is not destination to this
| journey.
| chasing wrote:
| This does add some validity to my belief that DOGE is full of
| wealthy mid-brains trying to convince one another they're smart
| boys.
|
| If you had tens of millions of dollars and wanted to help the
| world, there are a million legitimate paths. They might not be
| glamorous. You might not get to hang out with Elon. But you would
| actually make a huge difference.
| unsigner wrote:
| Dude, you're a bigwig at atlassian. Fix JIRA.
| phtrivier wrote:
| How about "sharing your money back" ? Or "helping" other in any
| kind of way ? Focusing on something else than yourself ? You have
| immense freedom, but also incredible power given your wealth.
| Lots of things that would be hard choices for most people will be
| about pocket changes for you.
|
| In the end, your life expectancy is finite. Add a couple of
| philosophy book to the physics regimen, find a cause where you
| money can be put to good use. And "live hapilly in the meantime".
|
| Good luck !
| wiseowise wrote:
| Why the hell does this crap have 940 comments, lmao? Why would
| anyone seriously spend any amount of time discussing this
| nonsensical crap of man-child?
| jamieplex wrote:
| Because you've just learned that THESE are the real people that
| are HN readers, and THIS is what is important to them. (sadly,
| IMO)
| dxuh wrote:
| I may sound very arrogant and I am, but I am shocked how clueless
| one can be about themselves and what they want, while still being
| clearly very competent and intelligent.
|
| When you have no job and "infinite" money (for most purposes) and
| you don't even know what you like doing, you should really spend
| some time just thinking. It's telling how the next arbitrary
| opportunity presents itself and the author is immediately 100% on
| it, possibly changing their entire life immediately after it. As
| someone that likely thought too much and did too little (I don't
| have millions), I think this is a case of someone that does too
| much and thinks too little.
|
| Sitting on a beach and studying physics is probably good start,
| but it might be better to study nothing and just think about what
| you like and why you do things. And when you figured it out, keep
| sitting there a while more (weeks, months, I don't know).
|
| It's a bit disappointing that we live in a system that rewards
| behavior like this so much and unfortunate for everyone that they
| often end up with power.
| tgraf_80 wrote:
| If the last sentence had been: Probably I will never figure that
| out. Then I would have said that you are on the right track.
| submeta wrote:
| It's sort of like the parent whose kids have finally left home or
| the person who hits retirement after decades of routine. You
| spend so long in a role that demands all your energy--raising
| children, clocking into work, scaling a startup--that once it's
| gone, it feels disorienting. It's not really about the money he
| made; it's about losing the sense of urgency and purpose that
| kept him going. Now he's stuck figuring out how to fill that
| void, which is something parents and retirees often deal with,
| too.
|
| Professional athletes who retire face a similar void after years
| of training for a single goal; military personnel returning from
| deployment often grapple with the loss of a clear mission; newly
| graduated students or PhD candidates who've just defended their
| thesis can feel a void, too. It's the same pattern: once your
| main structure or purpose vanishes, you have to figure out how to
| fill the space it leaves behind.
|
| His story is not about money. Although many see that as the main
| info here, it's not. It's about losing identity, the main goal in
| life.
| modeless wrote:
| I think it's strange that he rejected the idea of humanoid robots
| because it was "cringe" to copy Elon so instead he... studies
| physics with a goal of applying first principles thinking to
| manufacturing businesses? That's kind of Elon's whole thing.
|
| To be clear I don't think any of it is cringeworthy at all. I
| just don't understand the reasoning there. Why not do humanoids,
| they're awesome, and Elon is hardly the only one who thinks so!
| verzali wrote:
| ...is this satire?
|
| I honestly have a hard time believing anyone could survive doing
| what he says he did in the Himalayas without learning to spell
| "rappel" if it isn't.
| roughly wrote:
| THERAPY.
|
| THE THING YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS THERAPY.
|
| SAY IT WITH ME:
|
| THER A PY.
|
| Everything in this post is about how you keep tripping over your
| own bullshit and don't know what you want. The only difference
| between you and everyone else having an existential crisis is you
| won the lottery before you ran out of ways to lie to yourself.
| The good news is you've apparently got enough money to pay for
| the help so many other people need but can't get. Go find a
| therapist and figure out why you're so goddamn miserable
| (emotionally, not as a person) and what stupid stories you've
| been telling yourself to make you that way so you can use all the
| wealth you've accumulated to do something fulfilling, instead of
| trying to cosplay as the most visibly miserable person on the
| planet.
| numbasys wrote:
| For the author: Getting all that money without the life
| experience to build some values or ambitions for your impact on
| the world is proof enough that your fortune is just random luck.
| There are millions who have put more thought into life and had no
| financial reward for it. Give it to them, or get a life for
| yourself. Then you'll know what to do.
| cmckn wrote:
| It's a weird post. Part cry for help, part not-so-humble brag,
| and 100% not something any close friend, significant other, or
| therapist would recommend you hit _send_ on. Feels a little
| strung-out, to be honest.
|
| "Rich guy is bored, you'll never believe what happens next"
| sceptical wrote:
| I retired four years ago just before hitting 50 years of age.
| There is no real purpose and never was. I got my degree, worked
| in a field I loved. I was good at it, learned and was successful.
| But there never was any real purpose except personal growth and
| being challenged in my field of expertise. I've seen CEOs come
| and go, engineers much smarter than me leave and poor
| replacements being hired. Nothing ever really changed. In the
| work setting nobody is truly important.
|
| I don't know what Loom is and I don't really care. It was not
| spectacular. It doesn't matter. You succeeded. Now you can start
| on a new part of life. One where you do not have to prove your
| ability, you already did. So enjoy, you've earned it.
|
| I am sitting in the cold, snowy Scandinavia. In a few days time I
| will be travelling to Spain. I cannot wait. When I leave the
| airport and walk into the sun and the heat, I will be grinning
| like a madman. After a week of hiking / running, exploring and
| drinking cold beers in sun I will return home and once I leave
| the airport I will sigh with relief, home sweet home. After a few
| days of chores at home I will start looking forward to the trip
| that is already booked for the next week.
|
| Life is great.
| lylo wrote:
| This is living the dream. Congrats.
| contrast wrote:
| Sounds like you have had purpose for your entire adult life?
| What am I missing when you say "there is no real purpose"? Does
| the word "purpose" have some great significance that you feel a
| life lived well does not deliver?
| sceptical wrote:
| What is a life lived well? It is very personal isn't it.
| There is no intended result or end goal. No greater meaning.
| I like my life but others may find it meaningless.
|
| The poster asks "Why do I feel the need to only be on a
| journey if it's grand?". Makes no sense to me. It is only
| grand in his head.
| majkinetor wrote:
| Yeah... you nailed it.
|
| In the same situation, same age, I just didn't retire (but
| I can), because I still like my job.
|
| I am mostly at home, working and doing hobbies, and most
| people would say that my life is lame and that I should
| travel more or something (and they do). But 2 me, it's the
| best life now ever and every day I say "everything is
| awesome", especially when I feel down a bit (hormones &
| friends, nothing else, waiting to pass).
|
| You don't need anything except enough money so you don't
| have to micromanage your life expenditures (the only other
| thing money can't buy is love, and I was lucky there too
| (was it luck, really?))
|
| I do have delusions of grand projects. But I don't mind
| that, even knowing the probability. Consistency needs to be
| practised anyway...
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > There is no real purpose and never was.
|
| Some people find this utterly depressing and nihilistic, but
| personally, I find it freeing.
|
| The universe does not expect anything from you. That means you
| should do the most to simply enjoy life. Have fun and
| experience wonder. If you have the money to do whatever the
| hell you want, then do whatever the hell you want.
|
| I already know what I'd do. I'd spend an entire summer on a
| massive road trip around the USA, visiting every major theme
| park. When winter hits, I'd go somewhere tropical and sip Mai
| Tais on the beach. Or travel to the north and drink a beer
| under the Northern Lights every night.
|
| When free time becomes unlimited, I'd no longer feel like I
| need to min/max the usage of it.
|
| Shit, just being able to go without an alarm clock for nearly
| every day of the year would bring immense happiness.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| I'm with you
| randomopining wrote:
| It's not that warm in Spain right now though. Maybe canary
| islands?
| bariswheel wrote:
| Post-scarcity world will likely make these scenarios more common.
| prettyblocks wrote:
| Post-scarcity world means that a large chunk of society has
| this kind of freedom, so there wouldn't be the same kind of
| isolation that goes along with currently being one of the few
| rich people.
| sd9 wrote:
| I find the tone jarring. The author is all over the place. It
| feels like the author is trying to brag with every quasi-
| unconventional activity they've taken. Hiking in the redwoods,
| climbing a 6800m mountain and joining DOGE are a trifecta of
| cliches.
|
| It's sad that the author broke up with their girlfriend, who was
| likely the only source of reason in their situation.
|
| Genuine, selfless, introspection might help find a path. Hiking
| in the redwoods doesn't automatically produce introspection.
| satisfice wrote:
| I found myself burned out and with enough money from video game
| development at the age of 17 to "retire."
|
| I thought that having lots of time and quiet to read and write
| code and not worry about money would be wonderful. Instead, I
| fell into depression and isolation.
|
| I need to feel that I'm helping people. I need to be part of a
| project. I need people who rely on me. That's what I learned.
| That's where life's meaning comes from.
|
| I met a girl and married her. She spent my money so I went back
| to work with new vigor and purpose. All that happened about 40
| years ago. My first marriage ended amicably a few years later--
| and while briefly single again I once more felt depressed. I spun
| into more wild things. Eventually sold everything and was about
| to go trekking around the world when I met and married my current
| wife. That was 34 years ago.
|
| I settle down again. No one is going to make a biopic of my life
| of not drinking, not doing drugs, and not having fights with my
| family. But I tell you, it looks boring from the outside-- yet
| from the inside every day is full of contentment. Life is a
| struggle, because I am NOT rich, but it's not an emotional
| struggle. I feel lucky.
|
| Nothing beats reasonable health and a family that loves each
| other.
| kvgr wrote:
| Dude is burned out, he needs to relax a bit and stop drinking
| coffee if he does, cause it is probably giving him overdrive to
| the tired mind. Stop and smell the roses for a bit is true in
| this case.
| magic_smoke_ee wrote:
| First step. Get some therapy.
| imaginationra wrote:
| If you get "fuck you money" before you've discovered true joy and
| happiness while being poor, you're fucked forever.
| richiricho wrote:
| Unsuccesful and rich, depressing to read this garbage tbh.
|
| I have thousand of projects i would do yesterday with proper
| money.
|
| Buying and renovating or buying my own house. Creating a park
| with different influences (japan, china, asia etc.). Doing a lot
| of arts and crafts and experimenting with things. Building my own
| workspace etc.
|
| And when everything is settled, having space for friends and
| family to visit and use this too.
|
| And after that, helping people around me.
|
| I'm also lost why this person thinks being rich is boosting. I'm
| very happy with my relationship with my wife and it doesn't sound
| like he has anything to really boost about.
| imetatroll wrote:
| It sounds like the primary issue is being rich. I'm pretty sure I
| can help you with that.
| keeptrying wrote:
| Having money is as hard as not having it.
|
| Having money is actually harder because there are no constraints
| to guide you.
|
| Arnold is right - be useful
| jbc1 wrote:
| Humans are social animals.
|
| Your tribe were the people you worked with at Loom. When you left
| your tribe became only your girlfriend. What are you going to do?
| Have perfect harmony with 100% of your tribe forever? Of course
| not. Of course you fought. Because on top of lover she now
| fulfils all sorts of roles including rival, competitor, and
| nemesis.
|
| You need to pick a group, any group, and stick with it.
|
| Jumping around both physically and vocationally is not only not
| going to help you, it's going to make integrating yourself in to
| a group way harder.
| globular-toast wrote:
| The author is a self-proclaimed "big fan of capitalism". Turns
| out capitalism doesn't provide a meaning in life. The author
| should put down the physics books and pick up some books on
| Stoicism instead. Learn what a good life really is. There are so
| many problems that people have that they need help with and of
| course you won't see any of that while studying physics in the
| jungle.
| samhsmith wrote:
| THE FABLE OF THE LOOMER
|
| Create context for understanding what this bible passage you all
| have heard before is actually about.
| https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2019%3A...
| darkstar_16 wrote:
| He needs therapy is what I'm hearing. And he doesn't know it.
| nobrains wrote:
| I would recommend for him to visit a poor country and see how the
| people live and survive. He will find (I am assuming) find
| purpose. Maybe he will make his life mission to build and install
| water wells, or sponsor underprivileged kids education or
| something along those lines.
| CrzyLngPwd wrote:
| Man sets goal to be rich Man achieves riches Man is lost
|
| When your identity is defined by something external, you are sure
| to feel empty when it's taken away.
|
| He'll no doubt soon be on a $10,000-a-day ayahuasca retreat to
| "find himself," and I sincerely hope he does.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| I too want to have a say in a thread about wealth.
| figassis wrote:
| Fund something not necessarily tech related and be part of it,
| not some remote benefactor. That is the point of capital. It
| could be a problem that needs solving, or just some
| community/culture/industry. Earth is immense and spherical. Look
| beyond the concept of borders.
| khafra wrote:
| I had my doubts about Wentsworth's thesis that money cannot buy
| expertise; but this is certainly some evidence in favor:
| https://www.lesswrong.com/s/xEFeCwk3pdYdeG2rL/p/YABJKJ3v97k9...
| fennecbutt wrote:
| Lmao nobody truly earns that much money, it's theft from the
| people, plain and simple.
|
| Sure, DV me tech bros. You all create the foundation for all the
| MBAs and C levels to make 10x more than even you do, people who
| don't even understand the tech behind the product. Yet y'all
| think it's a great deal bc you're still richer than the "poors".
| Wealth inequality is going to eat the world very soon.
| keybored wrote:
| One thing he does is "trying to be Elon" in robotics. (But what
| impressive things has Elon or his underlings done in in robotics?
| Or just outside of Spacex?) Because the "world is going through a
| labor shortage". So the save the world shtick here is to solve
| propaganda-problem (fake) of there being a _labor shortage_ , in
| other words get rid of needing workers. I bet that will change
| the world for the better in this time of massive inequality.
|
| Then he wants to work for the upcoming US government spearheaded
| by two billionaire robber barons, one of which made his fortunes
| by pump and dumping a worthless Alzheimer drug. The other one has
| a very suspect track record and is a very big government
| contractor (but for some reason we don't call people like him
| _oligarchs_ ). "Government is dysfunctional". So let's, as
| billionaires (and financially independent multi-millionaires)
| take a sledgehammer to government and remake it how _we want it_
| to be. Oh boy. And attract all the "smartest" people to this
| project.[1]
|
| I'm not afraid that some small number of financially independent,
| Scrooge McDuck ideologue techbros have the power to make the
| world significantly worse (although it is a bit concerning). I'm
| also not upset that they don't plan to do something
| "philantphtropic" (i.e. main dish of ego-stroking and PR with a
| side-dish of actual good work). And I'm not upset that they don't
| go into something hands-on with a direct positive impact on
| people's lives (c.f. "solving the labor shortage") by
| volunteering themselves.
|
| I'm just upset that these ideologues just don't spend their money
| on one or five yachts, a private plane, their
| friends/family/entourage, and leave the rest of the world the
| fuck alone.
|
| [1] "All the brightest minds of my generation who venerate Musk
| and billionaire-world problems like "labor shortage" are going to
| work for robber barons in order to dismantle the US goverment..."
| wait maybe these people are not the brightest lightbulbs after
| all.
| Maro wrote:
| Clearly this is a joke, and you're all missing the point! He
| decided to fill in the void left after HBO's Silicon Valley and
| take up startup stand-up comedy, and this essay is his entry into
| the space :)
| bsenftner wrote:
| Pathetic. This is a failed education, producing classic "dumb
| money" that in a planet in dire straights with dire problems left
| and right, this clueless dope can't figure out how to keep
| himself satisfied. Boo hoo. If I were physically in the presence
| of this individual, verbal if not physical slaps to the face as I
| explain what their education failed: empathy and a sense of duty
| to others.
|
| Down vote away!
| jamieplex wrote:
| I can't! I don't have enough 'cred'!! lol
| antony_pond wrote:
| Have you read the subtle art of not giving a fuck? - you are a
| perfect example of what happens when someone achieve their goal.
| They feel empty, with nothing to do. Sad And alone.
| https://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
|
| Now you need to find yourself a new purpose. Only you can find
| it, maybe that can help: figure out that plants are the top of
| the food chain, and the more we treat them well... the most fun
| we have around them! Explore the spiritual world, help others who
| haven't been as lucky as you, be hurt, and heal again, that's
| life man.
|
| *You could join me in a suicide/impossible mission to save the
| world, but i doubt you will - nobody is mad enough to follow me
| in this endeavour.
| prmoustache wrote:
| What this guy definitely needs is a bicycle.
| jamieplex wrote:
| lol!
| blipss wrote:
| This is why you have kids lmao
| gadders wrote:
| I was getting ready to pile on, but then saw the dude boxes.
| Anyone who voluntarily risks getting punched in the face gets my
| respect.
|
| Sadly I'm not of independent means like him, so I can't really
| relate but good luck to him. He's managed what most of us here
| dream of.
|
| TBH, I'd say to him to reach out to other ex-founders and chat to
| them. They'll probably have the best perspective. Or become a
| partner at YC or something.
| sebastianconcpt wrote:
| Very poor spiritual or philosophical foundation. Why not dedicate
| a year or two studying meaning itself from many diverse sources?
| Reminded me of a friend who told me once: Mount Everest is full
| of dead bodies of bored millionaires. But this case is totally
| innocent, continuing with DOGE would have been great tho. The
| dangers come when they start using networking and political power
| to play god and plan on eugenics or eco-communist kind of
| ideas/projects hallucinating they are "saving the world" as ants
| hallucinating the jungle needs them.
| georgeplusplus wrote:
| Great post this helps me reflect with my own insecurities about
| freedom vs agency. I think what you're experiencing is very
| human. Finding meaning in life is in fact the most human thing I
| can think of. The answer is not clear but the beauty in the
| answer is it's very open ended.
|
| Thank you to the author. I hope you find what you're looking for.
| geminews wrote:
| Read through most of these comments unsatisfied myself. Sad to
| see people be mean.
|
| In my humble opinion, some spirituality gives one true purpose
| beyond this limited and at times unfulfilling material realm. It
| will provide compassion and gratitude for all beings. Buddha too
| was a Prince with unimaginable wealth. Wealth is not necessarily
| by itself a path to happiness.
|
| I'd go find a spiritual space that appeals to you. It's not easy
| as people with riches like the Beatles and people without like
| the hippies of the 60s too spent their life finding it. Read
| about George Harrison, for e.g.
|
| FWIW I found my spiritual space at this tiny piece of heaven
| called Bhakti SF.
| sergioisidoro wrote:
| It has become a meme at this point, but it seems men will do
| anything but go to therapy. Especially here, when the author can
| clearly afford it, and is going through a existential crisis.
|
| Also, if this is the cohort of people joining the DOGE
| initiative, I'm even more afraid that I was before.
| sureglymop wrote:
| To me, it seems that the author previously focused on "making as
| much money possible". That is understandable as a driving force,
| as most people think to be rich is what it means to be
| successful. It is also very understandable in the context of "the
| American dream", which is all about this. But now that the author
| reached the place of being more than rich enough, this
| overarching purpose and goal is gone.
|
| What I think is much better though, is to instead just have
| _curiosity_ as a driving force. And I think many people here on
| Hacker News do have curiosity as a bigger driving force than
| becoming rich. It is curiosity that drives one to tinker around,
| make random projects, hack around. Making money in the process of
| this has just been a convenient side effect in our industry. The
| truth is, if you have insatiable curiosity you will never not
| have purpose because there will always be a "next day" that you
| do not know about yet. It isn't just something intrinsic either,
| you can self-identify as being insatiably curious and try to live
| that way.
|
| Having that said, there is a certain amount of privilege required
| to even be in a position where you can claim this without having
| to worry too much about your survival.
| cucubeleza wrote:
| Some time ago I have watched an interwiew from Shia Labeouf on
| why he became catholic, for more that I think a good advice for
| everyone is getting closer to God, He said something that may
| help you:
|
| "Purpose in life is when you get something you're good at or have
| a natual inclination to that and help people with that, that's
| porpose"
|
| I'm very very far from getting rich but that's what I think that
| maybe help you
| begueradj wrote:
| Pay me to tell you what to do with your life.
| m0d0nne11 wrote:
| Dear ChatGPT: please help me construct a HN posting that's
| purportedly about a rich guy at loose ends trying to figure out
| what to do since that's guaranteed to tickle most peoples' fancy,
| but ensure that the payload paints a favorable picture of the
| DOGE since that's actually the motivation for the posting.
| arkensaw wrote:
| To all those people speaking about this guy in the third person,
| I would just point out he is also the OP.
|
| Hello Vinay.
|
| I'm sorry you don't know what to do with your life, but I promise
| you it's nothing to do with being rich and successful. Lots of
| people who are not rich also reach a point in their life where
| they just don't know what to do next. I suspect a lot of the
| people we meet or read about who find their "life's purpose" have
| actually just latched onto one thing and decided it's super
| important or meaningful, deluding themselves into happiness. This
| is also why people find religion.
|
| I don't have any great advice to dish out. I'm older than you but
| not by much. I'm not a rich founder of some company. I haven't
| travelled as much as you have. I would say, from reading your
| post, that it sounds like you're trapped in a few echo-chambers
| that influence your learning patterns.
|
| If learning physics in Hawaii doesn't fill the void for you,
| maybe try some things that don't have an end goal of starting a
| company. Do some simpler, less extreme things. Read some fiction.
| Buy an old VW camper and drive it across Europe. Build a log
| cabin. Learn a new (spoken) language. Knit. Get out and meet some
| real people who do not know you are rich and don't expect great
| things from you.
|
| > What is wrong with being insignificant?
|
| We are all insignificant. Nothing we do matters. We're specks of
| dust that exist for a microsecond on a warm rock that will
| eventually be eaten by our star. And there is nothing wrong with
| that.
|
| You don't need to find a purpose. Life doesn't have to "matter".
| spprashant wrote:
| I had the same thoughts, as some other people in the comments -
| there are so many problems to solve, so many people to help. It
| is hard to match the fulfillment that comes from helping someone
| less fortunate that you.
|
| This essay has not-so-subtle shades of individualism and
| meritocracy which can warp ones views about self-worth. I do
| applaud his self-awareness regarding his own vanity.
|
| As a side note, this is the first I am hearing of interviews for
| DOGE. Curious what that process looks like.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| 'I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream' (1967)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Have_No_Mouth,_and_I_Must_Sc...
|
| https://openlab.citytech.cuny.edu/?get_group_doc=22694/15401...
| Voultapher wrote:
| > Within 2 minutes of talking to the final interviewer for DOGE,
| he asked me if I wanted to join. I said "yes". Then he said
| "cool" and I was in multiple Signal groups. [...] So I reached
| out to some people and got in. After 8 calls with people who all
| talked fast and sounded very autistic smart, I was added to a
| number of Signal groups and immediately put to work. [...] The
| next 4 weeks of my life consisted of 100s of calls recruiting the
| smartest people I've ever talked to, working on various projects
| I'm definitely not able to talk about, and learning how
| completely dysfunctional the government was. It was a blast.
|
| While I can attest that current day governments in general - some
| more, some less and I assume past governments as well - can be
| quite inefficient. I sometimes fantasize about making parts of it
| more lean and efficient because how hard could it be, right? And
| with the "right" kind of result evaluation it will not be that
| hard to score better than it does right now. _But_ having silicon
| valley techbros apply their move fast and break stuff attitude to
| things that aren 't tech startups has repeatedly resulted in
| awful results [1]. So I must say reading this passage is quite
| revealing in ways I think the author did not intend it to be.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/0wtvQZijPzg
| jebarker wrote:
| He should put his money where his mouth is. Give it all away.
| That'll really change the world for the better and then he'll get
| to prove his entrepreneurial greatness by doing it all again
| without that gnawing sense of security.
| svara wrote:
| This post is ultimately a scathing indictment of capitalism.
|
| Money represents power. Our society let you have much more power
| than most individuals will ever have.
|
| But you don't know what to do with it? Why should you have it
| then?
|
| Capitalism at its best would allocate power to those who know how
| to use it effectively.
|
| Look around you. Isn't there anything in the world -
| commercially, socially, culturally - you think should be better?
| And aren't any of those things in a domain in which you can be
| effective?
|
| The legitimate capitalist would know the answer to those
| questions.
| rhubarbtree wrote:
| My instinctive reply is - go back to work and fix Loom because it
| sucks. OTOH, it's super impressive that they managed to make such
| a success from a pretty bad realisation of a reasonable product
| idea. The founders clearly did a great job in terms of
| marketing/sales and selling the company. That is no mean feat.
|
| My next suggestion would be to go give some of the money away to
| individuals who need it. There are many many homeless people in
| the US if you need somewhere to start.
|
| Beyond that, where are your friends and family? Might need to
| address that. Therapy will help. The NPC comment is disturbing,
| no well-adjusted person would write that.
| thepuppet33r wrote:
| Putting aside the whole "I'm rich and aimless, what should I do"
| thing the author's got going on, I found the product they got
| rich for (Loom) to be fascinating as a statement on where we are
| right now.
|
| It's essentially just a program that allows you to record a video
| of yourself while iterating through a presentation or screen
| share and then share it for feedback.
|
| Powerpoint has this as a native feature with OneDrive. There are
| other screenshare programs that do the same thing.
|
| The whole incentive for using it (according to the video) is to
| "avoid another all hands meeting." And AI is involved somehow?
|
| I find it so fascinating how companies seem to be aware that the
| way many big companies work (usually in office, in meetings,
| sometimes on video calls) is flawed, but rather than revisit the
| model, we just try to map the existing structure onto new
| expensive shiny tools.
|
| The only benefit I see to having someone send me a video of them
| reading their presentation or narrating their screen share is
| that I can watch it on 2x speed asynchronously. At that point,
| why not just send me a set of bullet points and the presentation
| or screenshots?
|
| I look at these products and I get the same feeling I do when I
| watch a road worker paint a tiny bike lane on an existing 4 lane
| megaroad with no barrier. You're not fixing the problem - you're
| just causing new ones. The whole system has to shift somehow.
| RGamma wrote:
| Sounds like a proverbial multibillion dollar todo list SaaS.
|
| Kinda wish big money would have left the CS-related space right
| about ~10 years ago, when things weren't quite as nonsensical
| (and culturally decrepit), so all the serial careerists would
| have chased something more viscerally useful, like maybe
| bracing us for the impacts of global warming.
|
| Rational markets and all.
| purple_ferret wrote:
| Loom is not for teams who use Microsoft 365.
|
| It's for teams that exclusively use Slack, Notion, Miro,
| Vercel, Mux etc
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| The shift would take a massive culture shift.
|
| Everything and everyone seem to only be concerned about money.
| In music, in art, in popular culture, in the contemporary
| "thought leaders"..
|
| It was the inevitable but hard to predict outcome of
| capitalism, the utter dissolution of everything that cannot be
| converted to capital, and the monetisation of everything else
| that could.
|
| The zeitgeist is a thin, inconsistent and ever changing set of
| ethics (which of course are also swayed wildly by capital) and
| everything else is about money.
|
| All the previous values are not only waining, they are also
| mocked.
|
| A lack of greed is considered a lack of ambition, piety is
| disregarded as antiquated and evil, honour and shame are non
| existent.
|
| We are living through tremendous sociopolitical changes, the
| most substantial and the most high paced humanity has ever
| faced.
|
| I just hope it goes the right way eventually, although it is
| almost certain that none of us will be here to witness it. The
| only thing we can do is surf the wave and do our best to make
| things better.
| tdiff wrote:
| > It was the inevitable but hard to predict outcome of
| capitalism
|
| I think it was not hard to predict, and in fact it was
| actually predicted in countless pieces, criticising
| capitalism.
| Destiner wrote:
| > At that point, why not just send me a set of bullet points
| and the presentation or screenshots?
|
| Because video works better for product demos.
|
| Show, don't tell.
| tqi wrote:
| Loom is one of my least favorite products because it enables
| lazy creators to offload the work of organizing and editing
| their thoughts onto the viewers. So instead of one person
| spending 30 minutes distilling their thoughts into a coherent
| narrative once, each member of their audience is forced to do
| that work separately.
| boringg wrote:
| Its helpful in certain cases for sure but you hit the nail on
| the head. Totally enables a lazy approach where everyone now
| needs to waste time watching a video so collectively the cost
| is much higher in terms of time spent.
| surajrmal wrote:
| Many people don't absorb information the same way. A visual
| demonstration tends to help me understand things in a
| quarter the time reading about it might. I know I'm not
| alone in this regard. You can always increase video speed
| to increase information density. Being able to accommodate
| folks with different learning styles is part of being in a
| team.
| tqi wrote:
| I 100% agree that a visual demonstration is very
| valuable, however my objection is less about information
| density and more about structure and clarity. In my
| experience these videos are rarely carefully planned and
| structured keynotes, but rather improvised, meandering,
| stream of consciousness brain dumps.
| torginus wrote:
| Sound like a billion-dollar idea to me (and Atlassian)!
| herval wrote:
| Loom is pretty great. It does one thing and does it well. It's
| obvious and easy to use. It's fairly priced. It's a great tool
| for remote work!
| downrightmike wrote:
| Its a screen recorder system. Rather than looking at a
| dedicated program that costs money, Loom comes up in Google
| first and works.
| jmuguy wrote:
| Our company is currently six people. We have a software-updates
| channel in Slack where I post our changelog for the team to
| read. I am very meticulous about these posts because I know
| very frequently we'll get asked "when did such and such change"
| and I can go back and reference these posts. And also its
| frequently the only way sales and our executive will know about
| changes, having not been directly involved. So yeah - I take a
| lot of time to make these posts concise, easy to understand
| etc.
|
| I constantly get asked to make a Loom demonstrating the
| changes. Which makes sense... but is also frustrating. And I
| always make the point that these videos aren't searchable (sure
| they have AI summaries or whatever but those are in Loom, not
| Slack).
| abustamam wrote:
| I used to work for a company that used Loom. It was always used
| for internal demos, ie "I made a new feature" or "I encountered
| a bug." It was perfect for that. That being said, we probably
| weren't the target market because we didn't pay for it.
| JoshTko wrote:
| TLDR, I've let how I think and what I value to be entirely
| determined by capitalism. I then (essentially) won capitalism.
| Hence I don't know what to do since capitalism has no meaning
| beyond achieving extreme relative wealth accumulation.
| aga98mtl wrote:
| Humans are meant to have kids and form families. This is the life
| meaning that is escaping childless strivers.
| FL33TW00D wrote:
| Everyone calling Loom a glorified screen recorder... there was a
| $975M dollar bill on the floor and no one else picked it up.
|
| The technology was simple, but it solved a real problem for
| people. Solving well defined engineering tasks is vastly easier
| than solving a real problem.
| erellsworth wrote:
| I can't remember the last time I read something this tone deaf
| and obnoxious. It reads like a 13 year old's journal. And a
| selfish 13 year old at that. Guy is so devoted to capitalism that
| he can't conceive of any way to do good in the world if it
| doesn't involve starting a business (or trying to make the
| government run like one).
|
| Maybe try helping people without expecting or even wanting any
| financial return.
| smallpipe wrote:
| Most NPC thing I've ever read.
|
| You've built a screen recording software and you're calling
| employees of Atlassian NPC.
|
| Whilst being an Elon Musk fan.
|
| Paying to be brought up a mountain and being shit at even that.
|
| Find a shrink
| neom wrote:
| 8/10 people I'm friends with who have been through an exit could
| write this post. It's a very, very, very, very common. The
| questions at the end too, two hands to count the times I've been
| asked those questions. I think the answer is, because: because
| those are what got you to the point of where you are right now,
| they are in fact just you, there is no why, they are not
| questions they're statements, that's who you are. Why are you
| that way? does it matter? -\\_(tsu)_/- (oh, and letting people
| down is hard because you're not just letting people down, you are
| letting yourself down too)
| sesm wrote:
| I would recommend reading "The Status Game" by Will Storr.
|
| In short: try to join as many communities as possible, you will
| get emotionally rewarded just for being accepted. Eventually you
| will find ones where you really want to fight for status, and
| this will re-ignite your life.
| torginus wrote:
| This post brings to mind people like Andrew Kelley, the guy who
| created Zig, who basically has foregone a lucrative career in
| software development, to work on his passion project (which is
| probably much more useful to the world than what he could've done
| otherwise). He lives off donations, and probably isn't lacking
| for a purpose.
| astrodude wrote:
| Another instance of money doesn't bring you happiness or peace.
| Congrats on your exit.
| krohling wrote:
| Do something to help everyone else stuck in the system. Hire
| lobbyists to improve healthcare in the US. All the other rich
| people are just trying to make things worse and extract as much
| as possible.
| advael wrote:
| I mean if you wanna angel invest I have some backburner projects
| I can't get done without some funding for hardware and time spent
| not earning an income, which I could probably spin into startups
| scudsworth wrote:
| go climb everest a few more times op.
| kelnos wrote:
| I have enough money that I probably won't need to work again,
| though I'm certainly not anywhere near as wealthy as this guy (I
| assume he has one or two more zeroes at the end of his bank
| balance than I do).
|
| The first half of it just felt so... weak... to me. But I decided
| I'd give the author the benefit of the doubt. Findig purpose can
| be a really hard thing, and I suppose even people with a Scrooge
| McDuck vault deserve sympathy when they're trying to figure that
| out. (Spoiler alert: there is no Big Purpose; life is what you
| make of it, and nothing more.)
|
| But then he talks about joining DOGE. Great, now you're a part of
| the problem. Part of the Silicon Valley know-it-all techno-
| dystopia crowd who thinks government can and should be run like a
| for-profit company. Disgusting. What a huge waste of an
| opportunity to use his wealth to help make the world a better
| place, as much as the wealthy philanthropist/savior concept makes
| me uncomfortable.
|
| It also says a lot -- and nothing good -- that he was able to get
| hired by DOGE with his only qualification being "sold a tech
| company for a truckload of money". These people are clowns. The
| US is screwed for a generation or three if they're successful.
| exabrial wrote:
| It's very interesting to see these same patterns at the micro
| level. Often, people start doing what other people are doing:
| book some massively expensive trip to go climb mount Everest,
| travel the world to snap a selfie at tourist traps, etc. You wont
| find happiness following the herd.
|
| As I've become more successful, I've had similar problems. It's
| tempting to think "yeah just more money and I'd be happy".
| Instead, what has made me happy is much cheaper: general
| learning, and developing new physical skills. As my coworker put
| it, "I don't collect things or experiences, I collect hobbies".
|
| If I had to pick a celebrity that seems to do this well, I'd pick
| Jay Leno (granted there's a lot of criticize him elsewhere, so
| maybe don't nitpick here). Watching him talk about his cars:
| restoring them, working on them, preserving them, trading, while
| ignoring a lot of other celebrity pleasures.
|
| Finally, the other thing that has been extraordinarily gratifying
| is old fashioned advice: Live below your means. This by gives me
| more satisfaction than anything else and I'm not really sure why.
| brutuscat wrote:
| Just help others achieve that freedom, maybe they can do more
| than you: https://www.givedirectly.org/
|
| Invest some (eg. 10-20 million) and use that as a giving fund,
| giving 1 million per year you could free several thousand of
| people each year.
| maplant wrote:
| I do not have anything to add to this beyond pointing out that it
| is an incredibly ironic first post for someone who loudly states
| how much they love capitalism on their about page
| protonbob wrote:
| > I didn't feel like I could work on them with her. So I broke
| things off after almost 2 years of unconditional love.
|
| So really there were conditions as well as no commitment. The
| hidden condition was "If I don't feel like I can work on myself I
| will break it off". This is why I don't take people seriously who
| refuse to enter into a marriage covenant that actually means
| unconditional love regardless of sickness or health.
| 0xcafefood wrote:
| I read that as "unconditional love [from her]."
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| Ok, I did not see nearly ending up at DOGE coming.
|
| > I should work for Elon and Vivek at DOGE and help America get
| off its current crash to defaulting on its own debt
|
| Thinking that DOGE will somehow accomplish something important
| seems very naive. DOGE's purpose is to try to cut government
| spending so that Billionaires can get more tax cuts.
| rehevkor5 wrote:
| Yeah, DOGE is going to fix the government? Um, wut...
| ahakanbaba wrote:
| Consider having children. That will help with the "problems" of
| having too much money and time.
| highspeedbus wrote:
| Go read a book, contribute to linux kernel, eat a cheeseburger,
| get in a nice hotel, watch movies, learn to cook, drive though
| the country, befriend locals, start a wine collection, earn a
| master's degree, publish papers..
|
| The author seems to put great value on doing grandiose things, so
| those suggestions may seem frivolous.
|
| It's a respectable goal to pursue huge achievements in
| professional life, but please be aware that it involves lots of:
| (a) talk to other people and (b) doing mundane stuff most of the
| time. It all depends on how hard you want it.
| tntxtnt wrote:
| Another lucky idiot who thinks he's a genius.
| idorube wrote:
| I was going to comment on his insta photo's of wads (this
| morning, EU time) of cash and now there's none (evening)
| <thinking face.gif>
| idorube wrote:
| forgot one > https://www.instagram.com/p/YbXbN6IMOs/
| ThrowawayTestr wrote:
| This is why "new money" is an insult.
| TimesOldRoman wrote:
| You are lost and thought DOGE was a good idea? The entire org is
| ketamine-fueled techbro Elon wannabes; not the best life-valuing
| gurus.
|
| Maybe take a Buddhist retreat for a year and see if doing quiet
| charity work feels better than trying to consolidate electrons.
|
| Or just be lost while building affordable housing? Try focusing
| on others rather than you.
| jamieplex wrote:
| I am new here, but can I ask a serious question? How does a
| question like this even get listed?? Or responded to? I really
| would like to know the system here.
| chardgor wrote:
| Yeah it's a problem. Jimmy Carter had the same type of problem 45
| years ago. He seemed to deal with it pretty well.
| idiot-savant wrote:
| You should try having someone fucking you in the ass for half an
| hour.
| hackingforfun wrote:
| Give away your money and build a new company if that's the
| purpose you need to fulfill in life.
|
| Being altruistic can be immensely rewarding.
|
| You have tremendous privilege. Go help some people with that
| money.
|
| Don't just think of yourself.
|
| Try taking up meditation. Balance your mind. Try to stop your
| thoughts.
|
| You are super lucky.
|
| Also, consider your death. No matter how much money you have, you
| can't take any of it with you. One day you're going to die. It's
| all going away. Enjoy what you have now and ideally help some
| others. That will bring you purpose.
| wizzwizz4 wrote:
| We are the hollow men We are the stuffed men Leaning
| together Headpiece filled with straw. Alas! Our dried
| voices, when We whisper together Are quiet and
| meaningless As wind in dry grass Or rats' feet over
| broken glass In our dry cellar Shape without form,
| shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without
| motion; Those who have crossed With direct eyes, to
| death's other Kingdom Remember us - if at all - not as lost
| Violent souls, but only As the hollow men The stuffed
| men.
|
| -- T. S. Eliot, _The Hollow Men_ , first stanza (1925)
| nelblu wrote:
| A lot of comments talking about having kids for purpose, so I
| thought I'd add mine. I don't have kids and when I compare myself
| to other friends that have kids I can see how having kids can add
| purpose (to some extent).
|
| That said, personally I have found immense purpose in life by
| having a dog. My dog not only makes me happy he teaches me that
| it is okay to do mundane things in life everyday and still feel
| extremely happy and satisfied. Each day I look at him and I thank
| him for being there, for teaching me how to live life, how to
| love unconditionally and how to live in the moment. I know it's
| silly but I'm having tears of joy as I'm typing because he is
| sleeping right next to me at my work desk. Love you my best
| friend ever !
| prashp wrote:
| You can have both (and a cat while you're at it).
| abss wrote:
| Seek meaning by helping others, or strive to conquer and shape
| the world through your will.
| neycoda wrote:
| Please sell off extra real estate. We're paying too much to live.
| Please stop figuring out ways to make more money. Enjoy your
| wealth. You don't need any more from our blood sweat and tears.
| We're already suffering enough at the whims of the idle rich.
| freeduhm wrote:
| I have 500$ in my bank account and just got laid off. You can
| send me some money and get a sense of fulfillment you helped
| someone. Dont ever say you never had an opportunity to help
| anyone.
|
| Anyway. As some people have touched on, service to others and
| evaluating unjust power structures can be a good place to look
| for fulfillment. Good luck
| poncho_romero wrote:
| The antidote to despair is action. I recommend volunteering to
| anyone who wants for meaning in their life.
| Bluescreenbuddy wrote:
| With that amount of money I'd just go to school. Volunteer here
| and there. Otherwise I'd lose my mind,
| bawana wrote:
| That kind of blog post never happened in the 1950 to 1980 era. It
| is so naive and selfish. But It might have been written in
| another era by Marie Antoinette. Avarice and decadence like this
| need to be taxed into oblivion
| julianvargkim wrote:
| I find that there are limitations of satisfaction from grand
| accomplishments or capitalistic success.
|
| At the end of the day, we are born naked, die naked and
| decompose.
|
| Doing what you want to do without some grand goals, interacting
| with others, helping others, joking around with friends and
| family with no other "grand" purpose, or just reconnecting with
| someone you haven't for a while, all these things shouldn't be
| tucked away completely in the name of "achieving more".
| lawrenceyan wrote:
| If you're wondering why you still feel unsatisfied even after
| having gotten everything you've ever wanted and achieved
| everything you set out to do, consider reading about the story of
| Siddartha Gautama and his journey of discovery.
|
| The answers you've been looking for are there.
| blueprint wrote:
| I struggle to understand stuff like this (to be honest, it makes
| me feel a little angry):
|
| > We started getting into regular arguments, and I knew it wasn't
| on her. It was me. I was starting to come to terms with all the
| mounting insecurities I had stuffed down over the past several
| years. I didn't feel like I could work on them with her. So I
| broke things off after almost 2 years of unconditional love. It
| was extremely painful, but it was the right call. I needed to
| fully face myself.
|
| Relational experiences are why and how you're encountering your
| repressed shadow or confronting the false self in the first
| place. Don't you face yourself by staying and accomplishing your
| promise of truthfulness and learn how to practice real love
| through e.g. honesty, courage,....
|
| I found this lecture once on a webpage that has since
| disappeared....
|
| "Enlightenment isn't a thing that you can get abandoning family
| and undertaking mountaineering asceticism. Enlightenment can be
| attained having family, and is a thing that cannot be attained
| through mountaineering asceticism. Enlightenment starts from
| accepting Truth and process of understanding Truth."
| https://web.archive.org/web/20090805085956/http://www.ircsc....
| petre wrote:
| If I did not have to work I'd probably get a dog and start a
| kayak and paddle board rental center near some scenic lake, along
| with a small fishing tackle shop. Screw Elon, robots, DOGE, AI,
| Mars and other stupid tech bro ideas.
|
| In fact I already did the dog part, but I'd probably get an
| Aussie instead if I did not have to work, had more space and more
| time on my hands to keep a more active dog engaged.
| bumby wrote:
| > _What is your most scarce resource if not time?_
|
| I would argue attention is more valuable than time. After all, if
| all your time is spent paying attention to the wrong things, how
| valuable can time be? I would urge the author to look at what is
| commanding his attention and that might give some insight into
| his malaise.
| DonnyV wrote:
| To bad he didn't meet someone he wanted to stay with before the
| money. I would say have a family. The next best thing he could of
| done. Its going to be hard to find someone that can't see past
| the money.
| scotty79 wrote:
| This person is obviously mentally disturbed. Freedom awarded by
| recent lucky windfall resulted in detriment to him. It already
| costed him his only deep relationship with a peer and almost
| costed him his life.
|
| I'm really happy that he ended up learning physics. It's probably
| safes activity of all mentioned given his specific brain.
| throttlebody wrote:
| Start by doing a long walk, like the PCT or Te Araroa trail. 3+
| months of hiking. You are busy every day, get up, eat and start
| walking. Finish the day physically tired. Sleep rinse and repeat.
| Have a break from news etc You come out fit, mentally reset and
| have a good perspective. Just my 2c
| Arete314159 wrote:
| For the vast majority of people, becoming rich is a means to an
| end. More time to make art, freedom from stress, ability to
| travel more, or just the fun of buying lots of toys.
|
| He keeps talking about wanting to do something "important." But I
| think he is conflating the "prestigious / expected" meaning of
| important with another interpretation: "meaningful."
|
| Plenty of next steps for a founder are prestigious. But few are
| meaningful. Most new companies make money by finding efficiencies
| and disintermediating people from processes in various ways. This
| usually means pushing an entire sector (like travel agents) out
| of gainful employment. For whatever reason, Silicon Valley
| startups rarely punch up - they don't find efficiencies in health
| insurance or healthcare billing, they don't do "Moneyball" for
| CEO's and figure out how to run a company for less, they don't
| find efficiencies that cause us to pay less money to the rich
| (except Cost Plus Drugs).
|
| No, they punch down, and make increasing numbers of the middle
| class into the new precariat. For that, the founders are praised
| and told that they are important. But the work, being morally
| questionable, is not meaningful. By contrast,
| many meaningful endeavors are about charity - giving access,
| opportunity, dignity, and money to those on the bottom rungs of
| society. The emptiness he feels is a lack of meaning,
| but he's trying to fill it with more prestige, and that's why
| it's not working.
| sgammon wrote:
| Damn, that's crazy. I'm poor and know exactly what to do.
| mjcat wrote:
| I've always felt these stories can be summarized as happiness or
| fulfillment is derived from the (positive) rate of change in
| circumstances rather than the achievements a person has in a
| point in time, money or otherwise. Even if you have millions in
| your pocket but that amount is not changing or you don't have a
| way to make it go up, you won't be happy for long. Same goes for
| a less wealthy person who is moving up in their career or their
| life-goals, they would be happy from experiencing positive
| change.
| klad_majoor wrote:
| Your capital has made you lonely, moreover, redundant as you have
| no needs. You cannot be coerced into a job, medical bills are no
| bankruptcy inducing issues for you (which is rather boring too),
| no need to work for the man.
|
| And like a chipmunk sitting on a mountain of nuts anyone you meet
| wants one so nobody acts normal. Again how sad and lonely.
|
| me i live in a blue collar neighborhood with people getting by
| and we look after each others kids and pets and gossip and share
| tools - trying not to sound too romantic but that's how it is.
| Sometimes I sweep the streets because I like it. Please enjoy
| your capital. I'm not jealous at all, why should I? Don't want to
| be a Midas, everything golden and hungry. I have community
| purpose and people to look after. For me, that's wealth.
| lashull wrote:
| Read your blog post backwards. Paragraph by paragraph and you get
| the answer to your intrinsic question. And btw it would be a much
| better read at the same time
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