[HN Gopher] The GTA III port for the Dreamcast has been released
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       The GTA III port for the Dreamcast has been released
        
       Author : Funes-
       Score  : 230 points
       Date   : 2024-12-31 16:52 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gitlab.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gitlab.com)
        
       | tetris11 wrote:
       | Does one need the original textures for this to work?
       | 
       | Edit: Yes
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | There is a whole section of the README written just for you :)
         | 
         | https://gitlab.com/skmp/dca3-game#prerequisites
        
           | tetris11 wrote:
           | Oh I know, I was just hoping that someone might generate
           | their own texture pack
        
             | geor9e wrote:
             | and models and sounds and fonts and text and paths and
             | configs and ...
        
       | datameta wrote:
       | What a time to be alive.
        
       | kls0e wrote:
       | do we have a gameplay capture on real hardware?
        
         | rasz wrote:
         | Judging by ~15 fps video Yes.
        
         | moosedev wrote:
         | https://x.com/falco_girgis/status/1873520002306871358
        
         | musha68k wrote:
         | https://youtu.be/ofn3F16ZKk4?si=wNdArUZ5WyznFgXL
        
       | homebrewer wrote:
       | Make sure to stash the copy of the source code somewhere before
       | Rockstar copyright mafia comes and takes it down, like they did
       | with the original re3:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28402640
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26199879
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | How dare they claim ownership over their property.
        
           | nirav72 wrote:
           | No other person. nor GP said that Rockstar doesn't have a
           | right to their IP.
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | If you were talking about a much more recently released game
           | for a current gen console, sure.
           | 
           | Instead, we're talking about a 23 year-old game with numerous
           | predecessors (including one on the way), on a 26 year-old
           | console that hasn't been manufactured in 23 years. The number
           | of people who will go to the effort of playing this pales
           | _tremendously_ in comparison to the rest of Rockstar 's
           | active market. There's next to no loss for them here.
           | 
           | And also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42562089
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | GTA III was recently remastered so this isn't strictly true
             | that it has no impact on Rockstar at all.
        
               | jjulius wrote:
               | >... this isn't strictly true that it has no impact on
               | Rockstar at all.
               | 
               | You're right, but you're right because you're arguing
               | against a statement/point I never made. :)
               | 
               | There's "next to no loss" (I _did_ choose my words
               | carefully...) because people will continue to buy the
               | remastered versions for the consoles they were released
               | for. The only segment of people Rockstar may or may not
               | lose out to are the people who are going to go to the
               | effort to port this to an old, defunct console (one that
               | Rockstar doesn 't even see profitability in, since they
               | don't have a version for it), but even then this project
               | requires a legally purchased copy of the game in order to
               | get started.
               | 
               | So now we're into a fun legal/moral area of, "I've
               | purchased this game legally, and I've purchased this
               | console legally, and now I would like to use both
               | together".
        
               | lizardking wrote:
               | For Dreamcast?
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Remastered for dreamcast? Right..
               | 
               | They didn't even bother to release san Andreas for the
               | Oculus quest after promoting it. And the remaster was
               | really bad quality.
        
               | ziml77 wrote:
               | They brought the impact on themselves by having the
               | remaster be a rebuild of the crappy mobile port. One of
               | the most well known games ever and they treated it like
               | trash.
               | 
               | Digital Foundry did a video back when it released
               | detailing the problems:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1JJt7xHTlE
        
           | bingaweek wrote:
           | I can't stand these one like twitter-style bitchposts. It
           | already starts off obnoxious and sarcastic, and for what,
           | defending Rockstar from the evils of Dreamcast homebrew?
        
       | whateveracct wrote:
       | I love retrocomputing. It completely flips the idea of "outdated
       | consoles" on its head. Instead of being less valuable because
       | there are better options, they are instead a forever-immutable
       | computer for developers to target.
       | 
       | The produced consoles will last many more years (I have an N64
       | still kicking running new ROM hacks on an Everdrive). And even if
       | every bit of hardware becomes defunct, the emulators will live on
       | preserving that architecture in an immutable state forever.
       | 
       | I used to think "what's the point of creating new software for
       | old consoles" but once I reframed them this way, I find them as
       | or more exciting that writing software for modern hardware.
        
         | kls0e wrote:
         | excellent, did you try SM64 - Through the Ages? Great custom
         | level design.
        
           | whateveracct wrote:
           | It's on my list :) I kinda wanna replay SM64 first for a
           | comparison.
           | 
           | I replayed Majora recently but insisted on replaying OoT
           | first for similar reasons.
           | 
           | EDIT: idk now thinking about it again, I think I'll just play
           | it. I want something pure and fun to play. Sadly it doesn't
           | play on original N64 but alas. I can always use my Steam Deck
           | :D
        
         | paulryanrogers wrote:
         | Hardware does fail over time, apparently due to stuff like
         | leaky capacitors. Enthusiasts and repair shops can keep a few
         | alive for a while, and shops like PCBWay may produce
         | replacement parts.
         | 
         | That said, I think your point about emulators is very on point
         | because they facilitate experiencing these long after hardware
         | becomes impractical. And folks can try a huge variety of games
         | without a lot of travel or shipping. I'm also curious to try
         | some FPGA solutions, especially if they can support save
         | states.
        
           | whateveracct wrote:
           | re: FPGA, the Analog Pocket with an Everdrive also works
           | great. I use it to play GB/GBC/GBA games on my TV via its
           | dock. Sadly, those don't support sleep and stuff but that's
           | worth it.
        
             | wolrah wrote:
             | Why bother with an Everdrive on an Analogue Pocket? Mine
             | has only seen a cartridge once, just because my partner
             | happened to have an old GB game she wanted to see if her
             | save had survived on, otherwise it runs entirely off SD.
        
               | whateveracct wrote:
               | I guess it's mostly because I already had it? That's a
               | good point though.
        
           | ethagnawl wrote:
           | There are also companies like Analogue who are producing high
           | quality clones which will keep gamers (mostly) happy for at
           | least another generation.
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | Analogue makes FPGA-based emulators. These are pretty cool
             | because they can eliminate a number of downsides with
             | software game console emulation while still retaining some
             | of the upsides, and versus pure hardware clones, they can
             | be updated and patched, either to fix bugs or add new
             | targets. Another bonus of FPGAs is that they're accessible
             | to hobbyists. I don't know what the current preferred
             | solution is but a while ago people were buying DE10 Nano
             | boards for running MiSTer, which could support a large
             | variety of cores.
        
               | alexjplant wrote:
               | MiSTER is going strong and the recent release of the
               | excellent-but-confusingly-named MiSTER Pi [1] board has
               | brought the cost of entry down considerably. After I do
               | some more SD card shuffling and verify game compatibility
               | I plan on selling my N64 and Saturn and using OEM
               | controllers with my MiSTER Pi. Unfortunately the Altera
               | Cyclone FPGA in it doesn't have the horsepower to run
               | anything beyond fifth-gen systems so a new platform would
               | be required for the Dreamcast, Gamecube, and PS2. The
               | common refrain from FPGA enthusiasts regarding these
               | systems is that because the hardware has many more layers
               | of abstraction they're less dependent on cycle-accurate
               | timing than older consoles so the juice might not be
               | worth the squeeze as far as building HDL cores for them
               | is concerned.
               | 
               | [1] https://retroremake.co/pages/store
        
           | jchw wrote:
           | In my experience relatively few of the components on old
           | computers and game consoles are particularly failure prone
           | and most of them can have a future contingency plan:
           | 
           | - Electrolytic capacitors can be replaced relatively easily.
           | Some people are replacing them with solid state capacitors to
           | try to improve reliability and avoid corrosion from leaked
           | electrolyte.
           | 
           | - Batteries likewise can be replaced easily, and you can
           | usually fit a socket in there if there isn't already one.
           | 
           | - Damaged traces on PCBs (usually caused by leaky capacitors
           | or batteries) can often be patched. It is definitely not the
           | easiest work, but if patching a few traces is all that's
           | needed to get something back into working order, then it's
           | probably worth it.
           | 
           | - Some of the old AC-DC transformer blocks are dying or
           | horribly inefficient anyways. Most of them are outside of the
           | machine and can be replaced with readily available modern
           | equivalents, so this one is extremely easy. For old
           | computers, ATX supplies are easy to adapt to pre-ATX
           | standards and even some different machines entirely since
           | they provide some of the most commonly-needed voltage rails
           | (some new supplies lack -12V but it will be listed on the PSU
           | specs either way). There's even very small form factor ATX
           | supplies using GaN based transformers that can fit pretty
           | much anywhere.
           | 
           | - CD-ROM lasers are definitely starting to wear down, but
           | there's quite a lot of optical drive emulators available
           | nowadays for a variety of machines, with more showing up
           | every year. As long as small-order PCB manufacturers remain
           | around, it will probably remain viable to make more of these
           | ODEs.
           | 
           | - Likewise, floppy disks and their drives can fail for a
           | variety of reasons, but floppy drive emulators are at the
           | point of reasonable maturity and can support a lot of
           | machines, too. I'm sure there's some weird standards where
           | emulation may be spotty (thinking of NEC) but for typical
           | Macs, PCs and Commodore computers I imagine most of the
           | ground is covered already.
           | 
           | It is true that a lot of hardware is failing and some of it
           | is not so easily replaced, but honestly, I think if we wanted
           | to, we could keep a good amount of the retro hardware working
           | for possibly hundreds of years longer. The real question is
           | if enough people will deem it worth their time and money to
           | do so. But then again, I suppose it's not much different in
           | that regard from vintage automobiles.
           | 
           | There will always be a place for emulation, probably a much
           | larger one at that. Not only does emulation give a very nice
           | long-term solution to keeping software libraries accessible,
           | they offer plenty of advantages over actually using old
           | hardware, and it's obviously a lot more accessible.
           | 
           | P.S.: to whoever does eventually come into possession of the
           | machines I worked on next, I apologize for my soldering. In
           | fairness, some of these old boards are stubborn even with a
           | ton of flux.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | >- Some of the old AC-DC transformer blocks are dying or
             | horribly inefficient anyways. Most of them are outside of
             | the machine and can be replaced with readily available
             | modern equivalents, so this one is extremely easy.
             | 
             | Except the commodore ones that fry the computer when they
             | stop working.
        
               | jchw wrote:
               | I believe the Commodore 64 power supply I am using I
               | ordered from c64psu.com. I did not evaluate the quality
               | in any way, but years down the line it hasn't failed me.
               | So, at least _working_ replacements are available, and
               | while they 're not necessarily cheap, it's probably worth
               | it considering you're definitely right about the fact
               | that the Commodore ones tend to fail in pretty ugly ways.
        
             | girvo wrote:
             | The optical drive emulators are great but sad: being able
             | to play games with original disks is half the fun, IMO
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | The DC will be around for a long time, but games won't be
         | played from optical discs much longer. It used a format that
         | was double the density of the yellow-book standard, and when my
         | drive failed, it was much cheaper to replace it with a flash-
         | based option than to buy a replacement drive.
        
           | pezezin wrote:
           | Yes, optical drives tend to fail. A couple of days ago I
           | tried to play with my old Gamecube that had been in storage
           | for at least 10 years, and surprise, it doesn't read the
           | disks anymore.
           | 
           | On the other hand, a few months ago I bought a Saturn and
           | despite being much older, it works flawlessly. That thing was
           | built like a tank...
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | I'm not disagreeing that optical drives fail, but isn't it
             | also the part most bothered by dust? And if you bought the
             | Saturn from some kind of shop, they probably cleaned it to
             | prevent returns.
        
           | pipes wrote:
           | I've got one of those, bought and installed it a few years
           | ago. Unfortunately it doesn't work with all games. Maybe that
           | has been fixed, but was very annoying to find that hydro
           | thunder didn't work!
        
             | farmerbb wrote:
             | If you're using an HDMI converter then that's most likely
             | your reason for Hydro Thunder not working. Hydro Thunder
             | notoriously doesn't work well with VGA output (HDMI
             | converters for the Dreamcast usually convert the VGA
             | signal)
        
         | gxd wrote:
         | Completely agree and I'll go a bit further. I see old consoles
         | and computers as the only VMs that will last. In 500 years,
         | assuming we all survive, I believe it's more likely that code
         | targeting the NES will be runnable than code targeting today's
         | browsers, .NET or the JVM. The reason is that while these
         | competing VMs are well documented, they are extremely complex
         | and code targeting them tend to rely on idiosyncrasies of
         | current operating systems, browsers and even hardware.
         | 
         | Also, the retro hardware itself is the ultimate documentation.
         | You can look at every chip using (nowadays) accessible
         | equipment and create an absolutely perfect replica in software
         | or FPGA. VM documentation, however, can contain inaccuracies.
         | 
         | My speculative fiction statement of the day is that only
         | software targeting relatively simple architectures will stand
         | the test of time.
        
           | jebarker wrote:
           | Not to mention that so much more modern software will fail
           | due to requiring network connectivity to non-existent
           | services
        
           | Klonoar wrote:
           | Isn't this general idea what the 100 Rabbits people theorize?
           | i.e with uxn and all that
        
           | robinsonb5 wrote:
           | Another aspect of this is the relative simplicity of the
           | toolchain.
           | 
           | On my 10-year-old PC (Core i5 something or other) I can build
           | a cross assembler and C compiler for the Amiga in around 21
           | seconds (vbcc, Vasm, Vlink).
           | 
           | I can build the same on the Amiga itself in minutes
           | (admittedly quite a lot of minutes!) rather than hours.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, I read recently of a build of llvm on a RISC-V SoC
           | taking well over 12 hours.
        
           | majormajor wrote:
           | I think it has less to do with the architecture or medium and
           | more to do with the type of media itself.
           | 
           | We are more likely to actively preserve art in usable forms
           | than something like JIRA. We play Chess more than we use
           | whatever contemporary accounting tool. We read old novels
           | more than we read transcripts of business meetings.
           | 
           | So we'll be more motivated to keep these architectures and
           | games continually preserved.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | Also reminds us that line goes up is often more a perceptual
         | FOMO than real technical milestones.
        
         | griomnib wrote:
         | The people who mod retro machines into more "modern" formats
         | are pretty wild on the hardware side as well.
         | 
         | This nut job decided to make a portable PS4:
         | https://youtu.be/bJSLscnFd_M
        
         | alexjplant wrote:
         | From my limited understanding the Dreamcast also has one of the
         | simplest architectures of that generation (since Sega learned
         | from the monstrosity that was the Saturn) which I would think
         | would make it a good target for homebrew. The GPU was also an
         | early PowerVR design so maybe contemporary mobile GPU expertise
         | can be leveraged instead of trying to target the Gamecube or
         | PS2's proprietary architectures.
         | 
         | Of course the OG XBox is probably simpler to port a PC game to
         | since it basically _was_ a PC so it doesn't really count in
         | this discussion.
        
       | mattxxx wrote:
       | "We got GTA III on dreamcast before we got GTA VI"
        
       | GenerWork wrote:
       | As an admitted Dreamcast fanboy, I love seeing work like this.
        
       | SequoiaHope wrote:
       | Screenshots: https://dca3.net/screenshots/
        
       | devops99 wrote:
       | There's something kinda beautiful about this.
        
       | 93po wrote:
       | Is this possible because GTA III was originally coded in such a
       | way to be compatible with the Dreamcast, and this is simply tying
       | together lose ends, or did someone go through an absolute butt
       | load of work rewriting huge chunks (or maybe even all chunks) of
       | the engine to make it Dreamcast compatible?
        
         | tmjwid wrote:
         | It's an engine port from the decompilation project RE3. A lot
         | to changes to get it to run
        
       | Sparkyte wrote:
       | I really wish Dreamcast had a longer life most people
       | underestimated how great of a console it was. However I believe
       | this was completely Sega's fault for not pushing the system
       | harder. The hardware was vastly superior to the PS2 which
       | launched the same year. I think Sega didn't consider how much
       | more expensive the Dreamcast was against the competition. Of
       | course XBOX sealed it's fate.
        
         | aesh2Xa1 wrote:
         | The Dreamcast launch price in Sep 1999 was $199 (US market).
         | 
         | The PlayStation 2 launch price in Mar 2000 was $299 (US
         | market).
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2
         | 
         | So the Dreamcast was much _less_ expensive than the PlayStation
         | 2.
        
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