[HN Gopher] Darktable 5.0.0
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Darktable 5.0.0
        
       Author : morsch
       Score  : 265 points
       Date   : 2024-12-31 11:19 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.darktable.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.darktable.org)
        
       | harperlee wrote:
       | From the landing page:                   darktable is (...) a
       | virtual lighttable and darkroom
       | 
       | Quite an interesting way to say that is a Lightroom alternative
       | :)
        
         | caustic wrote:
         | Quite literally on the github home page it says that "darktable
         | is not a free Adobe(r) Lightroom(r) replacement."
        
           | cornstalks wrote:
           | That doesn't mean it's not an alternative to Lightroom. That
           | was put in for reasons discussed in
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27722258
        
           | albumen wrote:
           | The feature list, description and thumbnail of the UI begs to
           | differ.
        
             | misnome wrote:
             | Don't forget the name!
        
         | worksonmine wrote:
         | I don't like descriptions mentioning what they're trying to
         | replace. I don't know what Lightroom is and what it's used for.
         | A project description should be stand-alone and should tell me
         | why I need it without riding on some other projects' name
         | recognition.
        
           | pbalau wrote:
           | No offense, but "lightable" and "darkroom" are well
           | established photography terms.
           | 
           | A lighttable is literally a table with a light source under
           | the table body and was used to easily and quickly "see" your
           | developed film strips or frames to pick what you want
           | "printed" on paper. There is also the term "loupe", which
           | derives from the magnifying tool used to see details on the
           | otherwise quite small negatives.
           | 
           | Darkroom is a dark room where you can print your negatives on
           | photo sensitive paper, you need the room to be dark, so
           | ambient light doesn't affect the print process.
           | 
           | These two terms have nothing to do with Adobe.
        
         | MrDrMcCoy wrote:
         | "This is a vacuum" > "This is a Hoover alternative".
         | 
         | Describing what the tool is for usually is better than
         | referencing a brand name that not everyone would be as familiar
         | with.
        
       | acomjean wrote:
       | I've switched to Linux, and one of the hardest things was to find
       | photo organization software. Adobe Lightroom was good this. I'm
       | still sorting it out on Linux.
       | 
       | I tried Darktable and found it really useful for editing raw
       | files. Once you figure out the filters they're powerful and
       | professional.
       | 
       | Darktable really opionated about how it stores files/ libraries
       | however. It really wants you to have one library for all your
       | photos, where I used separate libraries for various events I've
       | photographed. Also going through and ranking photos wasn't as
       | straight forward (is it applying the rank to the image on the
       | strip on the bottom vs the image in the main window?)
       | 
       | So I'm sorting with digikam, though it's editing features don't
       | seem as powerful. It's a process.
        
         | kataklasm wrote:
         | I'm using Collections in darktable to achieve this. Have you
         | tried it? Although I don't distinguish on an event basis I sort
         | everything into folders by month.                 -2024
         | --jan        --feb        ...        --nov        --dec
         | -2025        --jan
        
           | acomjean wrote:
           | I did.
           | 
           | Part of my mindset is when I'm done with an event I don't
           | want to have to deal with those folders, but know where to
           | find them. I have a large set of "everything else" photos
           | that works well with darktable.
           | 
           | It's partially the burden of how I used to do it... maybe I'm
           | being stubborn but it did work well for me.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | I had the same problem. Lots of solutions out there I think
         | PhotoPrism was the last one I tried but it involved docker. I
         | really just want the Photos app from Mac on Linux. I was
         | debating forking an existing project.
        
           | kccqzy wrote:
           | I am a happy user of PhotoPrism. I use it with Podman. I
           | initially hated the fact that it requires containers but then
           | I realized this makes it much easier to work with multiple
           | libraries simultaneously which was mentioned by OP. The
           | Photos app on the Mac does not allow using multiple libraries
           | simultaneously; I believe it needs to be restarted to switch
           | libraries.
        
           | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
           | If you really don't want to use containers, then it's
           | possible (with sufficient OS knowledge) to install the
           | software natively by looking at the Dockerfile and manually
           | running the commands.
        
           | FollowingTheDao wrote:
           | > I really just want the Photos app from Mac on Linux. I was
           | debating forking an existing project.
           | 
           | If you want design help let me know.
           | 
           | Bu yes, this. There is no "in between" on linux. Photo apps
           | either do everything confusingly, or it does nothing but show
           | you the photo.
           | 
           | If Darktable had "simple" and "professional" settings it
           | would be awesome. Sometimes you just want a quick edit and
           | other times it needs to be more complex. But I have to wade
           | through endless tiny crowded options in Darktable just to
           | crop and change some basic levels.
           | 
           | Digikam gets a bit closer, but it still starts as
           | complicated.
           | 
           | It would be great if the application gave you a simple
           | interface at first, and then you can add on complexity if you
           | need it. You want detailed curve manipulations? Great! Select
           | "Add feature" and choose "Curves". This would help a lot with
           | linux growth IMHO since it is the one thing I hear that
           | frustrates just about everyone who does not want to use
           | google photos.
           | 
           | The Photos App from Apple is only getting worse as well and
           | Adobe is a horric mess of subscriptions and AI BS.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | I think my issue is a lot of them slow down to a crawl and
             | Digikam fell under this problem for me. Importing thousands
             | of images and videos isnt easy. I did like that Photoprism
             | had a WebUI made it easy to access the photos across my
             | network.
        
               | buildbot wrote:
               | Yep, the only photo library tool I've used that can
               | handle 40K raws is Lightroom and Photomechanic.
               | Everything else can't handle ~2TB of photos.
        
             | DidYaWipe wrote:
             | Photos also stuffs everything into a proprietary
             | database... a blunder made by far too many photo
             | applications.
        
         | ezst wrote:
         | Pretty much the same, here, with digikam used to aggregate
         | collections of images taken and edited by other, specialized,
         | software. I don't hate that set-up: IMO, the requirements for
         | processing RAWs and managing a collection are different enough
         | to warrant separate tools, and I find digikam really pleasant
         | to work with. What would you like to see improved?
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | What would you like to see improved?
           | 
           | Last time I tried digikam it crashed on startup (macos). This
           | was back in September. I'm sure it's not a hugely popular
           | opinion in open source circles, but IMO neither digikam nor
           | darktable are good enough to warrant the hassle of dealing
           | with separate applications.
           | 
           | Lightroom is a bit of jack of all trades, but it's good
           | enough as a DAM that I'm not wanting for a separate app.
        
             | ezst wrote:
             | I don't have stability issues with digikam while using it
             | on fedora. It's well maintained and sees frequent releases
             | so if I were you and had some spare time, I wouldn't shy
             | away from opening issues and reaching out to developers.
             | 
             | And yeah, sure, if the "do it all" approach works for you,
             | and the tool you desire already exists, I'm not there to
             | turn you away from it! Since digikam can open any lot of
             | images in a side application for edition, I'm not sure what
             | kind of improvements a "kitchen sink" application would do
             | to my workflows and I was curious about that :-)
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | I don't have stability issues with digikam while using it
               | on fedora
               | 
               | Right, I'm not switching to Linux just for digikam.
               | Since digikam can open any lot of images in a side
               | application for edition
               | 
               | If I'm going to open a photo in Lightroom anyways, why
               | not use it for asset management? I'm not wedded to an
               | all-in-one solution, but neither digikam nor
               | darktable/rawtherapee offer enough of an improvement over
               | the respective modules within Lightroom to warrant usage.
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | I absolutely detest this whole "library" business. Why can't
         | just I open a file? Or just browse a folder, click some files
         | and edit them? WTF is a "library"? A "film roll"? Keep it real.
         | 
         | I also wish they had a better color calibration workflow.
         | Everything looks like trash with the new color calibration and
         | filmic RGB nonsense. Especially DJI-shot raw files. Lightroom
         | opens them fine.
        
           | 10729287 wrote:
           | Same here. It all began with itunes and having duplicates of
           | my mp3s. I always been more of a winamp user myself ! On my
           | mac I use Photomator and appreciate how it allows me to
           | browse my ssd and use my very own file tree
        
           | dvdkon wrote:
           | The main problem I see with "just files in folders" is
           | thumbnails. You need some thumbnail cache, ideally
           | pregenerated, for speedy browsing. And once you've got that,
           | you've lost the simplicity of "just files" anyhow.
           | 
           | And you might not want them, but things like facial
           | recognition, search by metadata, and object detection really
           | only work with a central database/index of all the photos you
           | have.
        
             | dheera wrote:
             | Just store the thumbnails in a cache or in a dotfile
             | subdirectory. This can be transparent to the user. If the
             | user is going linearly down or up the list you can also use
             | a Kalman filter to predict what files and directories the
             | user might browse next and preroad thumbnails for those
             | directories in advance. Don't wait till the user actually
             | scrolls to something to _start_ working on thumbnail
             | generation. UI Design 101.
             | 
             | Also, many consumer cameras embed thumbnails in metadata
             | that can be extracted almost instantaneously. For those
             | there is no image resizing work to do. But you can still
             | load the thumbnails into memory in advance to make it even
             | snappier.
             | 
             | Just don't make me add the folder to a "roll" or "library"
             | just to browse it for 5 seconds.
        
           | jitl wrote:
           | You might be happy organizing your own folders but 99.9% of
           | people are happier to dump their photos into a software and
           | have the software manage the files and folders behind a
           | database and make cloud sync and sharing go brr.
        
         | Derbasti wrote:
         | I edit with Darktable, but organize with DigiKam. Not that
         | Darktable is bad, but I prefer to organize my rendered JPEGs,
         | not my RAWs.
        
         | poulpy123 wrote:
         | You may want to have a look to a software called tonphotos if
         | you just want to sort and filter pictures. If I remember well
         | it doesn't allow image edition though.
         | 
         | For the moment pay for lightroom just for my needs but the
         | bills are starting to sting... To stay on windows, the best
         | alternatives I found are zoner photo studio X and Mylio photo
         | but the first one doesn't do face recognition and the second
         | one doesn't handle a camera I used several years ago.
         | 
         | Digikam would be good I guess but I can't stand the UI.
        
         | DidYaWipe wrote:
         | The problem is the seemingly endless parade of photo software
         | that forces you to add everything to a "database," instead of
         | simply a directory structure. It's tedious as hell, and must be
         | manually kept up to date all the time instead of simply picking
         | up any files added to the structure.
        
       | TheChaplain wrote:
       | It's already available on flathub;
       | https://flathub.org/apps/org.darktable.Darktable
        
       | FiniteLooper wrote:
       | I'm very interested in DarkTable, but I have years on photography
       | in Adobe Lightroom. I'm growing tired of LightRoom, but I feel
       | like I'm now locked into that ecosystem. Is there some kind of
       | migration to move my LightRoom edits out of there and into
       | something like DarkTable?
        
         | glitchcrab wrote:
         | No, it's simply not possible. You can migrate some information
         | using sidecar files but Lightroom's edit details are
         | proprietary and so cannot be migrated.
         | 
         | https://darktable-org.github.io/dtdocs/en/overview/sidecar-f...
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | I've been using Digikam for 20 years, and although it's
           | pretty good now, it has been a rough 20 years in some
           | respects. Nevertheless I'd do it all again rather than suffer
           | the trap of putting data into a system designed to prevent
           | you getting it out.
        
             | orbital-decay wrote:
             | Edits are essentially impossible to transfer between RAW
             | development software, and even between major versions of
             | the same software. It's not specific to Lightroom, Digikam,
             | or Darktable. You would have to replicate everything, from
             | the color science to quirks and bugs. Adobe literally ships
             | previous versions of Lightroom's processing code in each
             | new Lightroom version, to avoid messing anything up. As
             | does Darktable (it still contains the previous code for
             | compatibility) and any other software.
        
         | andyjohnson0 wrote:
         | I wrote this [1] when I moved from LR to DT. Its my best
         | attempt to batch-create xmp sidecars (which DT can^Wclaims to
         | read) from the LR catalog. Despite the terrible name it was
         | adequate for my purposes, but I only ahoot jpeg not RAW.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/andyjohnson0/XmpLibeRator
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | Congratulations to the Darktable team on their latest release.
       | 
       | I tried and tried with Darktable, but found the UI and features
       | extremely frustrating. This [1] post, about a year ago, convinced
       | me to stop inflicting pain on myself and move on. I use Capture
       | One Pro now and am happy with the decision.
       | 
       | But I'm glad that DT exists as a FOSS solution for those who want
       | that.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38412582
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | I am in the same boat. Lightroom just works and is
         | significantly faster to do the same basic things as DT. What
         | got me to switch was the transition from Legacy to V3 module
         | order and the absolute mess that created for no discernible
         | reason: my photos that were developed using an older version of
         | DT suddenly looked straight up broken and anything new I
         | imported defaulted to Legacy even though I said to always
         | default to V3 to the point where each photo had to be switched
         | individually to V3, a process that on a reasonably powerful
         | computer took about 1.5 seconds.
         | 
         | Moreover the churn of modules that are available but you aren't
         | supposed to use got old fast. I really do wish I could keep
         | using a FOSS solution but Lightroom has taken my time to edit a
         | batch of photos from many hours to under an hour with better
         | results and virtually no learning curve. Sadly DT has managed
         | to sell me an Adobe product.
        
           | rqtwteye wrote:
           | Same for me. I tried DT for 2 years but never got comfortable
           | with it. Lightroom just works for me from editing to
           | keywording and geotagging. And the AI masking stuff in
           | Lightroom is really good.
        
         | infotainment wrote:
         | I really wish someone would fork Darktable to build "Darktable
         | but with a UX that isn't horrible."
         | 
         | One day!
        
           | cjonas wrote:
           | Isn't this exactly what ansel tried to do?
        
           | t0bia_s wrote:
           | Not only that. I'd like to have AI masking, effective clone
           | tools, lens corrections and please... actually working
           | defaults! You import RAWs (compressed RAFs) and it render
           | horrible results!
           | 
           | Its bloated with useless functions, it's slow, UI is ugly...
           | Why not focus on important? Stop developing another demosaic
           | method and make it more user friendly, less nerdy piece of
           | tool.
        
       | willcodeforfoo wrote:
       | Unrelated, but wondering if anyone here could recommend a
       | Darktable-ish web-based photo organization app, less focused on
       | editing but supporting tagging, starring, etc.?
        
         | haunter wrote:
         | Look through this, there is no one perfect solution
         | 
         | https://github.com/meichthys/foss_photo_libraries
        
         | Carrok wrote:
         | Photoprism
        
         | CapSel wrote:
         | Something like immich? https://immich.app
        
         | ezst wrote:
         | Nextcloud memories (which is a third-party app, not to be mixed
         | with the photos one, bundled with NC) is pretty decent IMO.
        
         | poulpy123 wrote:
         | immich, photoprism, librephotos
        
       | WithinReason wrote:
       | Is there any open source software that has stable diffusion-based
       | denoising for RAW files?
        
       | deanc wrote:
       | I've used Darktable for quite a few years now, casually, because
       | seriously I'm not paying 100+ euros a year as a casual to edit my
       | photographs in lightroom. Darktable's flaw has _always_ been its
       | UX as well as performance (at least on MacOS it was pretty laggy
       | on maxed out Intel 2019 Macbook back in the day, but it runs like
       | butter on Apple Silicone macs). They really should consider
       | adding a beginner mode with the most common filters and hide
       | everything else. The learning curve can be quite steep having to
       | learn about things that are par for the course in Darktable such
       | as Filmic RGB etc.
        
         | dantondwa wrote:
         | While you're definitely right about it having a steep learning
         | curve, it's also true that not many RAW editors do what
         | Darktable does. Darktable aims at serving advanced, tecnically-
         | minded users. It's complicated, but in a way, it's nice it is,
         | for those who need it.
        
           | deanc wrote:
           | > It's complicated, but in a way, it's nice it is, for those
           | who need it.
           | 
           | Same argument for linux :) Darktable can do so much more than
           | Lightroom (minus the AI stuff), so why not make it more
           | accessible under a beginner mode. You'd have more people
           | using the software, benchmarking features, logging crashes
           | etc. You might even attract a few interested developers also
           | at the same time or donators.
           | 
           | Hell, I'd even call it Lightroom mode.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | There's an important difference between powerful and
           | difficult to use. Darktable lands solidly in the latter camp.
           | This mythical power being used as an excuse is doubly
           | frustrating as:
           | 
           | - Network effects mean competitors will struggle to gain
           | traction
           | 
           | - Darktable shamelessly apes the Lightroom UI which gives a
           | superficial impression that it'll be similarly intuitive.
           | It's not.
           | 
           | My favorite interface behavior is that in Darktable clicking
           | on empty space (accidentally or in an attempt to unfocus a
           | widget) will usually send an event to a nearby widget. That's
           | not power, that's just sloppy design. Oh and sliders give no
           | indication of how to input an exact value.
           | 
           | Or there's color balance. There are two competing modules.
           | One presents a complex and unintuitive interface, the other
           | offers to mimic camera settings but triggers warnings if you
           | dare touch it. In the way that Tesla makes cars for people
           | who love gadgets but hate cars, Darktable is a product for
           | folks who love monkeying with code but hate photography.
           | 
           | Ansel solves much of this, but brings its own shortcomings to
           | the table.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _While you 're definitely right about it having a steep
           | learning curve, it's also true that not many RAW editors do
           | what Darktable does._
           | 
           | If a Darktable developer happens to read this, I'd suggest
           | looking at Nitro1 for inspiration. I use it with Photos, and
           | although Nitro doesn't _need_ Photos (i.e. it can work
           | directly with the filesystem), it 's a good way to experience
           | both "easy" and user-friendly "expert" paths.
           | 
           | 1https://www.gentlemencoders.com/nitro-for-macos/, the
           | spiritual successor to Aperature by the former lead of
           | Aperture, Photos, and related digital imaging technologies.
        
       | Scene_Cast2 wrote:
       | I remember there is also the ansel.photos project, which is a
       | fork of Darktable, aiming to remove architectural debt. I wonder
       | how they're doing.
        
       | 867-5309 wrote:
       | > _darktable is an open source photography workflow application
       | and raw developer. A virtual lighttable and darkroom for
       | photographers. It manages your digital negatives in a database,
       | lets you view them through a zoomable lighttable and enables you
       | to develop raw images and enhance them._
        
       | BlackLotus89 wrote:
       | Since no one mentioned it yet. There is a darktable fork called
       | ansel https://github.com/aurelienpierreeng/ansel that tries to
       | remove bloat and make darktable more user friendly.
       | 
       | It's rather opinionated and done by Aurelien Pierre.
       | 
       | For those interested in the why
       | https://ansel.photos/en/news/darktable-dans-le-mur-au-ralent...
       | there is also a YouTube video with strong language. There is an
       | appimage so I recommend people to at least try it.
        
         | n144q wrote:
         | > What happens when a gang of amateur photographers, turned
         | into amateur developers, joined by a bunch of back-end
         | developers who develop libraries for developers, decide to work
         | without method nor structure on an industry software for end-
         | users, which core competency (colorimetry and psychophysics)
         | lies somewhere between a college degree in photography and a
         | master's degree in applied sciences, while promising to deliver
         | 2 releases each year without project management ? All that, of
         | course, in a project where the founders and the first
         | generation of developers moved on and fled ?
         | 
         | A number of open source design software comes to mind, but I am
         | too scared to name them.
        
           | BlackLotus89 wrote:
           | Yeah it's a common problem, but it is in the nature of open
           | source to be done by enthusiasts (of course it can be done by
           | professionals/enterprises, but I think it's fair to say that
           | most open source software stems from a personal need).
           | 
           | I'm really not judging any project, because a working
           | solution that is done by enthusiastic amateurs is better than
           | no solution at all and let's be honest, most of my code is
           | amateurish at best/hacked in a week/month as well.
           | 
           | It's only bad if you see a project heading in the wrong
           | direction and not being able to stop this, but for this god
           | invented forks ;)
        
           | Derbasti wrote:
           | If he's so hung up on the open source process of Darktable, I
           | can't wait to hear what he has to say about enterprise
           | software, LOL.
        
         | HelloUsername wrote:
         | > Since no one mentioned it yet
         | 
         | Yes they did, couple minutes before you:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42558923
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42558937
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I can't try it because I do my photo editing on a high-end mac
         | and they don't care to keep their macOS builds working because
         | only 4% of existing darktable users are on macOS (and the dev
         | doesn't have a mac to test on). (Nevermind that a lot more
         | would be if darktable didn't suck, and that we're all paying
         | for Lightroom instead because of it.)
        
         | teamoet wrote:
         | I've seen this fork mentioned around a couple of times so I've
         | decided to read the articles on https://ansel.photos/en/news/.
         | I'm not trying to deny that his motives are right, but the way
         | and how often he bashes on darktable developers is really off-
         | putting. I'll only cite a couple but they're easy to find:
         | 
         | > a handful of guys with more freetime and benevolence than
         | actual skills
         | 
         | > So I fixed the whole logic [...] You might think that was a
         | problem solved and a job well done, but that's leaving
         | Darktable's geniuses out of the equation.
         | 
         | If you want to work alone I guess you can have that sort of
         | negative attitude... but to me it clearly says "don't use or
         | contribute to this software".
         | 
         | It's easier to spot mistakes after others have already made
         | them, and then come up with better approaches. And it's easy to
         | find yourself complaining about what is basically a prototype
         | somebody else made and spared you the effort. It can definitely
         | pump your ego up.
         | 
         | I'm saying this because one-man forks almost never lead to
         | popular adoption, and almost always lead to abandoned forks,
         | even if the new developer is technically gifted. I'm somewhat
         | reminded of KWinFT (KDE fork) that has been somewhat recently
         | renamed to Theseus' Ship.
         | 
         | I understand that you acquired a repulsion to design by
         | committee, but when dealing with large projects you can't do it
         | all by yourself, so you need to start learning how to deal with
         | people. But who knows, maybe it's possible to find other like-
         | minded contributors who are not so easily thrown off by the
         | immaturities of a project's leader.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | but to me it clearly says "don't use or contribute to this
           | software"
           | 
           | As an end user the sheer arrogance and condescending attitude
           | that the darktable devs bring to the table is far more
           | offputting than someone (an ex-darktable dev no less) losing
           | patience with that behavior.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | Still, there's a lot to be said for taking the high road.
             | If the attitude of the upstream devs is so toxic to drive
             | you to create a fork, then why not differentiate yourself
             | by creating a toxicity-free community to the best of your
             | abilities?
             | 
             | You might even adopt forum rules similar to HN's but with a
             | focus on improving access to open source photographers'
             | tools (which is what this software is supposed to be in the
             | first place).
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | Darktable has so thoroughly sucked the fun out of digital
               | photography for me that I can hardly blame Aurelien for
               | being salty. I just don't care that much that his
               | frustration boiled over because he's at also doing
               | something constructive.
        
             | yladiz wrote:
             | Seconding chongli, you can be very frustrated with the devs
             | and not be toxic; losing patience, even if justified, does
             | not justify being an asshole, and even genius devs like
             | Linus have grown to understand this. I agree with some
             | points Aurelien makes and do find Darktable to be a bit
             | frustrating to use, and I'm sure he's right about a lot of
             | the reasons it's slow and not great to develop on, but he
             | crosses a line, going from criticizing to belittling others
             | and propping himself up at the same time, and just sounds
             | like an insolent and narcissistic person, which makes me
             | basically never want to try his fork.
        
           | BlackLotus89 wrote:
           | I'm a 100% with you on this, but I always try to be as
           | neutral about this as I can. A character/temper of a
           | developer should not be the main topic of discussion, the
           | software should be though.
           | 
           | To your comment about committees. That (or the lack thereof)
           | is a big critique point the ansel developer makes. A
           | leadership of one is better than the leadership of none. And
           | since he forks darktable and mostly removes and replaces some
           | functions I don't see it as a problem in this case,
           | especially since he has been maintaining the project for many
           | years now.
           | 
           | Anyway like I said, I would recommend trying the software and
           | if you think it's worse than darktable just don't use it :) I
           | for instance have multiple software packages installed and am
           | quite annoyed to have to use multiple packages for one
           | "thing" and I always try to use the best tool for the job. On
           | photo management/editing I'm quite torn
        
           | snapetom wrote:
           | It's funny how when one guy does it for a small fork on a
           | small project, people get riled up about it. However, when
           | there's a bigger project like HomeAssistant, people let that
           | behavior slide.
           | 
           | As far as Darktable/Ansel goes, he's right. Darktable's UI
           | and philosophy is pretty horrid. I shouldn't have to know
           | seven different algorithms to apply a denoise filter. The
           | vast majority of professional photographers are artists, not
           | computer scientists. I want the application to pick the best
           | one for me. All commercial applications these days take it
           | one step further with some pretty good AI tools, too.
        
             | secstate wrote:
             | Which creates shallow artists who just want it to "look
             | pretty now." Not saying there isn't a place in the world
             | for that, but there are always trade offs with tools that
             | manipulate your human vision of art, and to say "there are
             | too many denoise filters, just pick one for me" will be
             | severely limiting when you realize that what you really
             | wanted was grain removal, but that's not how your AI
             | denoise filter works.
             | 
             | Again, there's room in the world for all manner of software
             | uses. But to argue that Darktable is bad because it gives
             | too many options, misses the goals of a great many artists,
             | which is to understand what's happening to the pixels they
             | captured in the field.
        
               | washadjeffmad wrote:
               | Auto modes have their places, as does retaining
               | specificity of features. I don't think they're exclusive
               | to each other.
               | 
               | And I don't think simple choices create shallow artists
               | (or that the goal of Darktable is to create artists).
               | Someone who doesn't have any arts education already
               | doesn't have the technical understanding or vocabulary to
               | really know what they're doing, so maintain the extra
               | barrier? How many professional grade tools can you think
               | of that have simple or guided modes?
               | 
               | The great part about software is that done well, it's
               | often designed to be functional without a depth of
               | specialty or expert knowledge, at least no more than a
               | homeowner telling the builder "make my driveway to here"
               | needs to know how to source and formulate concrete so
               | that the end product looks good and doesn't crack or
               | weather.
        
         | purew wrote:
         | There is also rawtherapee which I switched to after using DT
         | for about a year.
         | 
         | Rawtherapee workflow seemed to work better for me and I haven't
         | really looked back.
        
         | Derbasti wrote:
         | Frankly, Ansel is outdated by now. No color equalizer, no
         | camera styles, no Sigmoid.
         | 
         | Mainline Darktable has overtaken it.
        
         | t0bia_s wrote:
         | Is it something like ART, a fork of RawTherapee?
         | 
         | http://art.pixls.us/
         | 
         | It's interesting how bloated those open-source editors are.
         | There are a ton of useless options. Instead of focusing to
         | implement needed tools like AI masking or lens correction, we
         | have bunch of de-mosaic non function methods or multiple
         | sharpening tools that are non practical to use in classical
         | workflow. Even defaults render broken RAW files!
         | 
         | It's like many volunteer programmers doing software without
         | ever actually using RAW development professionally.
        
           | gazook89 wrote:
           | People come to volunteer with the interests and skills they
           | have. It's easier to let problems that are hard or not
           | interesting fall to the wayside, and for the maintainers to
           | take what they can get (especially if they think that happy
           | contributors will contribute more).
        
           | Almondsetat wrote:
           | this is the same as GIMP and Audacity and many other FOSS
           | projects: a proliferation of menus and niche features and
           | zero overarching design and ideas
        
             | gmueckl wrote:
             | That's because the incentives don't align between
             | developers and users on OSS projects when they aren't
             | catering to developers. There is no product management as a
             | go-between that is tasked with understanding the user base
             | and edits feature requests and developer contributions into
             | a coherent package.
        
       | fooblaster wrote:
       | can anyone recommend a tutorial for some of the basic features
       | that that is more for the engineer audience? There are many
       | videos on YouTube but many are very out of date.
        
       | datadrivenangel wrote:
       | I'm a darktable user (which fascinates my photography friends,
       | because I'm the only semi-serious photographer they know who uses
       | it), and think it's time to switch to something better. What non-
       | adobe tools are other people using?
        
         | Derbasti wrote:
         | Capture One or DxO. These are the only ones as good as
         | Lightroom in their rendering. I'm afraid they are both much
         | more expensive.
         | 
         | ON1, ACDSee, Luminar, Zoner, Silkypix, Radiant, RAW Power,
         | Photomator are other options, but IMO have rather significant
         | flaws that make them less good.
        
         | MrDrMcCoy wrote:
         | Have a look at AfterShot Pro. Very fast, powerful, and easy to
         | use.
        
         | omoikane wrote:
         | I use DxO PhotoLab, which came with perpetual license. I paid
         | ~$100 for PhotoLab 1 and ~$70 for an upgrade to PhotoLab 4, and
         | haven't upgraded since. I thought it was well worth it.
         | 
         | (I plan to upgrade to a newer version eventually, but thought I
         | would upgrade my computer first)
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | I switched from Lightroom to Nitro (macOS, iOS, iPadOS), by the
         | former Apple lead for Aperture, Photo, and other digital
         | imaging technologies. Two years later, I'm very happy with that
         | choice. https://www.gentlemencoders.com/about/
        
       | sbarre wrote:
       | I want to use this program, but the lack of support for RAW
       | formats that are at this point 3+ years old (RW2 and ORF) is a
       | bummer.
       | 
       | I don't know where the gap is (DT, or the libraries, or some
       | licensing problem) but the end result is that this app doesn't
       | support the RAW formats I use, and I don't think I'm using
       | anything particularly exotic.
       | 
       | I'll keep checking in on each new release though..
        
       | bfrog wrote:
       | I've just recently started with a real camera and editing raw
       | files. Darktable has so many modules and options it's quite
       | intimidating. After a month of tinkering and trying it out I
       | still don't really have a solid handle of what module i need for
       | the outcome I want which I think maybe just comes to experience?
       | 
       | I still don't fully grok what filmic is supposed to do, it seems
       | like several things in one.
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | Just stick to a few modules, you really don't need much if all
         | you want is to get a lot out of your photos.
         | 
         | Here's a tutorial with a suggested list:
         | https://luxagraf.net/essay/craft/darktable-getting-started
         | Exposure (lighten or darken an image)         Filmic RGB
         | (control how light the whites and how dark the blacks)
         | Color Calibration (set the white balance)         Color Balance
         | RGB (enhance colors and color contrasts)         RGB Primaries
         | (rarely, but color correction)         Diffuse or Sharpen
         | (Sharpen)         Crop         Tone Equalizer (raise shadows)
         | Retouch (fix spots)         Rotate and Perspective         Len
         | Correction (fix distortion in wide angle lenses)
         | 
         | For the most part, I don't even touch most of these. But I'd
         | add profiled denoise, though it's probably auto applied and you
         | don't need to touch it (like lens correction).
        
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