[HN Gopher] Dog Aging Project
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Dog Aging Project
        
       Author : T-A
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2024-12-31 08:05 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dogagingproject.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dogagingproject.org)
        
       | abc-1 wrote:
       | Last I heard this had tens of millions of dollars allocated to it
       | and yielded little to no results, unfortunately. Is that not the
       | case?
        
         | mahkeiro wrote:
         | The publication page of the site seems to contain quite a few
         | publications. What do you mean by no result?
        
           | abc-1 wrote:
           | Nothing useful to improving human quality of life.
        
             | worthless-trash wrote:
             | I thought I had narrow definitions of usefulness.
        
               | abc-1 wrote:
               | That was stated as the main goal of the project: improve
               | quality of life in dogs and hope the results transfer to
               | humans. It didn't achieve that goal so far. I really
               | don't know what you want me to say.
        
               | scott_w wrote:
               | Being a little facetious: If my dog lives an extra 5
               | years of high quality life then that would improve my
               | quality of life immeasurably.
        
             | 542354234235 wrote:
             | Exploring unknown paths that turn out not to lead anywhere
             | useful is still worthwhile, since we can't possibly know
             | beforehand what unknown information will or won't be
             | useful. We don't even know what research might become
             | useful based on new information from some other field or
             | line of research.
        
               | abc-1 wrote:
               | Great, so there's no way to "fail" and they can keep
               | asking for money indefinitely. See the problem here?
               | You'd stop shoveling money into research that hadn't
               | yielded any results either, especially if it was $24
               | million dollars that could have gone to better avenues.
        
             | insane_dreamer wrote:
             | ?? It's about improving the lifespan of dogs, not humans.
             | But if you must, well, dogs living longer (while healthy)
             | == happier human dog owners.
        
       | aitchnyu wrote:
       | Are there other examples of innovations flowing from veterinary
       | medicine to human medicine?
        
         | victorbjorklund wrote:
         | malaria parasite discovered when researching cattle disease.
        
         | Qem wrote:
         | Euthanasia.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _other examples of innovations flowing from veterinary
         | medicine to human medicine_
         | 
         | "As microbial and genetic discoveries were made, pathogenesis
         | studies were required to integrate the new knowledge into
         | useful clinical advances. Those advances include a creative
         | model of enteric bacterial disease (Moon), demonstration of the
         | transmissibility and pathogenesis of scrapie, a proposal that
         | human kuru was a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy
         | (Hadlow), and the isolation of bovine leukemia virus (Miller)
         | and bovine immunosuppressive retroviruses (Van Der Maaten)--5
         | years before AIDS and HIV appeared. Now modern molecular and
         | genetic sciences and their applications in integrative, whole-
         | animal biology make possible exciting advances for the benefit
         | of both animals and people" [1].
         | 
         | (Counterfactual: "major methodological limitations of the
         | animal research and evidence of widespread publication bias"
         | limit translatability [2].)
         | 
         | [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK22905/
         | 
         | [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2746847/
        
         | goda90 wrote:
         | Dog cancer is considered pretty similar to human cancer and
         | sometimes treatment trials are done in dogs after they are done
         | in mice and before they are done in humans.
        
         | casenmgreen wrote:
         | I don't know, but if you find your dog is now immortal at the
         | human equivalent of 25 and you're getting old and grey,
         | everything hurts, and the babes don't look at you any more,
         | you're probably going to want something to get done about it,
         | pronto.
        
           | senkora wrote:
           | Relevant SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/jimmy
        
       | akdor1154 wrote:
       | Urgh some ungodly JavaScript is hijacking the scrolling, I wish
       | the site wasn't so ineptly written.
        
         | aziaziazi wrote:
         | And no << reader mode >> possible. Totally unusable for me!
        
         | 0_____0 wrote:
         | bahaha usually when HN people are complaining about a website I
         | think they're being dramatic but the way this was scrolljacked,
         | it's almost like it's designed to frustrate you
        
           | qb1 wrote:
           | I participated in this project with my dog for two years. I
           | stopped as the clunkiness of the web ui and lengthiness and
           | frequency of the surveys. The experience left me dubious as
           | to the project's methodologies.
        
           | oyashirochama wrote:
           | The best part is running this on a potato PC and watching the
           | JavaScript kill itself.
        
         | LorenDB wrote:
         | I think it's actually worse that this site breaks inertial
         | scrolling only half the time instead of all the time. At least
         | be consistent!
        
       | jasdi wrote:
       | Animal domestication is really wild. So we first select for
       | neoteny (playfulness, dependency on caregiver, physical features
       | people like) basically prolonging the juvenile state. Then we put
       | them in controlled environments of abundance, were all their
       | needs are met. Which further diminishes need to reach adult state
       | (with traits like aggressiveness to compete for resources). This
       | abundance causes them to mature/breed earlier and reproduce more
       | than in the wild. Basically a population of children that can
       | produce children. Then we want this population of children to
       | live longer.
        
         | throw839298 wrote:
         | > neoteny
         | 
         | What domesticated animals were bread for "cuteness"? Cats are
         | mice hunters. Most popular dog breeds were selected for killing
         | and dog fight! That "big smile" is not for laughter, but to
         | crush bones!
         | 
         | And many domesticated animals can not even reproduce without
         | human assistance. How they would survive in wild?
        
           | blueflow wrote:
           | I think requiring human assistance and inability to survive
           | in the wild are an effect of neoteny.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _What domesticated animals were bread for "cuteness"?_
           | 
           | Dogs.
           | 
           | > _Cats are mice hunters_
           | 
           | Cats blur the line between domestication and taming.
           | 
           | > _Most popular dog breeds were selected for killing and dog
           | fight_
           | 
           | One can breed for more than one thing. (Dog fighting as a
           | selection pressure is very modern and very limited.)
           | 
           | Dogs literally evolved a muscle to make them more appealing
           | to (and help them communicate with) humans [1].
           | 
           | > _many domesticated animals can not even reproduce without
           | human assistance_
           | 
           | Not an argument against neateny.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dogs-have-
           | special-...
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | Dog fighting is limited, but most dog breeds have been bred
             | primarily for a specific practical purpose.
             | 
             | > Dogs literally evolved a muscle to make them more
             | appealing to (and help them communicate with) humans
             | 
             | Not necessarily exactly cuteness. The other explanation
             | suggested is better communication in general - by exposing
             | the whites of their eyes we can see what they are looking
             | at, which is an important cue for humans (we use it between
             | ourselves too) to indicate the direction of attention.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _most dog breeds have been bred primarily for a
               | specific practical purpose_
               | 
               | Sure. But most of those traits are shallow. Let the breed
               | go stray and many characteristics go away. The neoteny
               | does not.
               | 
               | > _Not necessarily exactly cuteness_
               | 
               | The neoteny--large eyes and heads, for example--is
               | precisely cuteness. Not all breeds are equally neotenic.
               | But they're very much not wolves.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | > Sure. But most of those traits are shallow. Let the
               | breed go stray and many characteristics go away.
               | 
               | A lot of characteristics seem to be bred in and
               | instinctive - breed specific behaviour occurs without
               | training. Strays do not breed pure so of course breed
               | specific characteristics are lost.
               | 
               | > The neoteny--large eyes and heads, for example--is
               | precisely cuteness
               | 
               | To an extent yes. The specific trait mentioned in the
               | comment I was replying to was not neotenous. Not all
               | neotonous traits are physically cute.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _breed specific behaviour occurs without training.
               | Strays do not breed pure so of course breed specific
               | characteristics are lost_
               | 
               | My point is neoteny almost isn't breed specific. Let
               | strays breed and it's preserved--stray dogs are cuter
               | than wolves.
               | 
               | Wild dogs don't become wolves. (They also stop being
               | French bulldogs.)
               | 
               | > _Not all neotonous traits are physically cute_
               | 
               | Almost all physically-cute traits are neutenous.
        
             | derriz wrote:
             | > Dogs literally evolved a muscle to make them more
             | appealing to (and help them communicate with) humans [1].
             | 
             | This scene from an 1953 Tom and Jerry of Spike teaching
             | Tyke what it means to be a dog seems prescient:
             | https://youtu.be/jnW48TihBR0?t=50s
        
           | trimethylpurine wrote:
           | Chihuahua.
        
           | scotty79 wrote:
           | > What domesticated animals were bread for "cuteness"?
           | 
           | Fairly recent experiments with domestication of foxes show
           | how it might work.
           | 
           | What you select for is behavior. Mainly you breed individuals
           | that neither attack humans nor run away from them. Any other
           | response than aggression or fear is ok. In few generations it
           | turns out individuals selected this way retain more and more
           | juvenile traits.
           | 
           | I think cats never needed to get domesticated because
           | reacting to humans with neither aggression nor fear is within
           | natural range of perfectly normal behaviors of most
           | individuals of this specific niche feline species that got
           | globalized through its relationship with humans.
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | Recently I had an interesting thought that basically people did
         | almost the same to themselves spontaneously through culture.
         | Which might influence various aspects of human behavior, like
         | social interactions in general, cooperation and means of
         | competition, mate selection. We might have genetic changes that
         | are not maladaptive only in the culture that introduced them.
         | As technology forces culture to evolve it might turn out that
         | huge swaths of human species have their evolutionary fitness
         | suddenly reduced.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | Visually humans have neotenistic characteristics compared to
           | other primates, so this is quite plausible.
        
             | xapata wrote:
             | And mentally. We never stop playing.
             | 
             | Note the popularity of memes about "adulting".
        
               | scotty79 wrote:
               | What's interesting is that rigid culture that forced us
               | to do adult behaviors despite retaining juvenile traits,
               | now when it's getting lifted and replaced with freedom to
               | do whatever you please might leave many individuals
               | maladapted from the evolutionary standpoint to prolonging
               | their genetic line. Which I think is perfectly fine. New
               | generations that are better adapted to the culture of hi-
               | tech freedom will arise from the few that currently
               | accidentally already do the evolutionarily correct thing.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | > _And mentally. We never stop playing._
               | 
               | Do animals stop? There are plenty of examples of play in
               | adult animals:
               | 
               | - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S
               | 03766...
               | 
               | - https://medium.com/illumination/wild-animals-at-
               | play-982e26e...
               | 
               | - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1998-07899-003
        
               | oooyay wrote:
               | My elder female dog _loves_ to play and the way in which
               | she plays has only gotten more nuanced over time. She 's
               | even adapted to play with me, play with other dogs, play
               | with smaller dogs, and play with puppies.
               | 
               | The basic semantics of her language of play are all the
               | same: she bows, she'll yawn, she barks and does that
               | side-eye glance. Sometimes she'll dance. If she gets
               | really hyped up she'll get the zoomies.
               | 
               | Dogs, from what I've observed, are incredibly intelligent
               | and social animals as they exist today.
        
           | dennis_jeeves2 wrote:
           | >Recently I had an interesting thought that basically people
           | did almost the same to themselves spontaneously through
           | culture.
           | 
           | I think this already well known in evolutionary biology
           | circles though not through culture. I don't recollect but it
           | was most likely Robin Dunbar who said it, people ganging
           | together to kill of the most annoying/bullying/maladjusted
           | members.
        
           | bumby wrote:
           | Although humans may be reaching reproductive age faster,
           | aren't we generally reproducing later in life? That seems
           | counter to the OPs point.
        
             | Jensson wrote:
             | Those two are naturally related. If getting pregnant at 10
             | usually lead to death, then your genes will avoid that if
             | getting pregnant at 10 is common.
             | 
             | However if socially we prevent girls from getting pregnant
             | at 10 then biology can make them go through puberty at 10
             | without risk, since they will not get pregnant anyway.
             | 
             | Edit: As for the playfulness point, for us humans we punish
             | kids for being playful when they reach 7, so it makes sense
             | that we will evolve to stop playing around at 7 and hence
             | becoming adults already by then. We don't punish pets for
             | being playful though, at least not today.
        
               | bumby wrote:
               | I'm finding it hard to understand your point or not
               | finding that argument particularly convincing. We can
               | socially change much faster than we can biologically
               | evolve. Meaning, the change in birth age can be heavily
               | influenced by social factors (birth control, resource
               | abundance, requirements for self-sustainment in
               | adulthood) much faster than biology would adapt. We can
               | be extremely socially different than those who lived when
               | it was the norm to be pregnant at 14 while being
               | essentially biologically identical.
               | 
               | Further, we can have multi-modal distributions that
               | undermine the biological assumption. Some groups show
               | much lower birth ages because it's not culturally
               | disadvantageous than other groups. In that context, even
               | if the average age increases, it doesn't mean lower birth
               | age is _biologically_ disadvantageous.
               | 
               | > _humans we punish kids for being playful when they
               | reach 7_
               | 
               | This needs a citation or at least a definition of what is
               | meant by "playfulness", because I find it hard to
               | believe. I don't know any parents who would want their
               | child to stop playing at 7 years old.
        
           | flippyhead wrote:
           | Just like the Eloi!
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | > _evolutionary fitness_
           | 
           | But there's no such thing as an objective "evolutionary
           | fitness". It only makes sense to speak of evolutionary
           | fitness in a given niche.
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | Yes. And this niche moves as culture evolves.
        
         | mclau156 wrote:
         | "Animal domestication is really wild"
        
         | Beijinger wrote:
         | Dogs domesticated us. Wolves are hunted but dogs a fed, given
         | shelter, love and access to medical care.
        
           | BiteCode_dev wrote:
           | You'll let me know the next time you'll have to require the
           | permission of your dog to pee, or when it can trigger surgery
           | to cut your balls or put you down.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | That humans are dominant doesn't preclude us having co-
             | evolved.
        
       | Ratelman wrote:
       | FYI limited to to US only - they refer you to their sister
       | project: https://darwinsark.org/ if you'd still like to
       | contribute in a similar fashion but reside outside of USA.
        
       | trallnag wrote:
       | Why is the website so difficult to scroll through on Firefox on
       | Android?
        
         | catlikesshrimp wrote:
         | I am using version 133.0.3 (Build #2016060959),
         | hg-7ed49fe90e84+ GV: 133.0.3-20241209150345 AS: 133.0
         | 
         | with ublock origin.
         | 
         | And it is behaving as expected (correctly, I mean)
        
           | trallnag wrote:
           | I'm on exactly the same version, also with ublock as the only
           | extension. Weird. For me the scrolling stops immediately the
           | moment I lift my finger off the screen
        
         | sadeshmukh wrote:
         | It's also bad with Chrome on Android.
        
       | GrumpyNl wrote:
       | So when i join the project, my dog becomes a guinea pig for
       | testing Rapamycin?
        
         | aziaziazi wrote:
         | I didn't know that molecule. It's an immunosuppressant, isn't
         | it a bit counter productive for old people that tends to be
         | weaker?
        
           | victorbjorklund wrote:
           | The idea is to inhibit mtor which regulates a lot of
           | processes in the body that affects aging. The
           | immunosuppressant effects are a side-effect.
           | 
           | If it works? It was promising but latetly it looks more
           | unlikely.
        
           | Engineering-MD wrote:
           | Better thought of as an immune modulator than suppressant.
           | Ultimately it's a blunt tool when we lack more specific
           | agents. Yes, it will have risks including infection, but the
           | benefits may (or may not) outweigh the risks.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _isn't it a bit counter productive for old people that
           | tends to be weaker?_
           | 
           | Not if it's running around fighting imaginary worms and
           | generally inflaming everything.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _when i join the project, my dog becomes a guinea pig for
         | testing Rapamycin?_
         | 
         | They remain a canine. But yes, they become a research subject.
        
       | tt_dev wrote:
       | Need one for cats.
        
         | costcopizza wrote:
         | We can get them to 30 with the help of Jake Perry's protocol.
         | 
         | -A breakfast of eggs, turkey bacon, broccoli and coffee ...
         | with cream
         | 
         | -A splash of red wine to "circulate the arteries"
         | 
         | -Stimulation by way of nature documentaries screened in his
         | garage-turned-theater
         | 
         | -Lots of love and attention
         | 
         | See: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/how-to-
         | raise-a-165-yea...
        
           | the-chitmonger wrote:
           | I've seen his story across various sources - has he ever
           | elaborated on specific quantities/ratios? I haven't seen
           | anyone reproduce his regimen for his cats, and I'd love to
           | see some more concrete evidence that the diet is effective
           | (IMHO the extensive development of his home to act as a
           | massive jungle gym feels like the more likely culprit in
           | their longevity).
        
           | 93po wrote:
           | This seems like it'd make for a very happy cat, but that
           | level of sodium and caffeine and any alcohol intake at all
           | has to be pretty bad for them.
        
           | shepherdjerred wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing that article, it was a great read
        
       | bsenftner wrote:
       | How many of you glance at this website and think "fraud engine"?
       | This is a fantastic vehicle to suck money out of people that love
       | their pets, and love animals in general. I know nothing about
       | these people, but my fraud alarms are screaming.
        
         | goda90 wrote:
         | Well study participants aren't charged. Maybe it's fraud
         | against those who are funding it, but the pet owners themselves
         | are not the current target.
        
           | bsenftner wrote:
           | I'd examine this much deeper before engaging. It's far too
           | consumer targeted, far too feel good. I would not be
           | surprised if "becoming a partner" or "community scientist"
           | required fees or more.
        
             | carls wrote:
             | This project is a research project out of the University of
             | Washington, led by several of the professors there. I
             | believe the lab is the Healthy Aging and Longevity
             | Institute.
             | 
             | They share a list of academic publications that have
             | resulted from the project, and their Team page lists the
             | full names a sizable large number of people.
             | 
             | Their FAQ indicates that the cost of the DNA Kit and other
             | things are covered by the project funding. [1]
             | 
             | What made you think that it's engaging in fraud? I'm
             | genuinely curious.
             | 
             | I'm not involved in the project but just from looking at
             | the site for several minutes, it seems to be a fairly
             | reasonable research project.
             | 
             | Or did you say "fraud" less to mean "these are people who
             | are stealing money and e.g., hoarding it away" and more to
             | mean "these are people engaging in a research project I
             | disapprove of"?
             | 
             | [1] https://dogagingproject.zendesk.com/hc/en-
             | us/articles/441699...
        
               | bsenftner wrote:
               | Honestly, it does not appear like a research institute at
               | all. It looks like the styling that the owners of
               | People's Magazine or the National Enquirer would use to
               | market their 'research nonprofit' where the actual
               | research contribution is 3% of their revenues, while
               | supporting fat salaries for an executive staff. It just
               | looks too consumer and not academic, not serious. It is
               | simply too feel good. It has the trappings of
               | respectability, but not really. It's too slick. I also
               | never spent the time to look deeper, the loud consumer
               | targeted presentation drove me away.
        
               | enraged_camel wrote:
               | Several people have corrected you, and yet you keep
               | going, claiming that this is some sort of fraud. What's
               | your deal? Why are you spreading FUD?
        
               | op00to wrote:
               | Maybe the person just really loves it when their dog dies
               | early. :(
        
               | insane_dreamer wrote:
               | Probably because creating a nice-looking website is more
               | likely to drive engagement with today's users than
               | something that looks like it was made by some academic
               | stuck in the 90s.
        
               | carls wrote:
               | I think it's reasonable to be turned off by a slick-
               | looking website, but I imagine it's because the intended
               | audience of the website is the general (dog-owning)
               | public, likely for the purposes of soliciting
               | participants.
               | 
               | Interestingly, through engaging with you I discovered
               | that this is a cognitive bias called the "horn effect"
               | and is the reverse of the more common "Halo effect": http
               | s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_effect#:~:text=The%20horn.
               | ...
        
             | zacharycohn wrote:
             | You could try clicking around and reading a little bit
             | before throwing wildly inaccurate, speculative, and
             | slanderous accusations at an org you know nothing about.
        
             | antisthenes wrote:
             | Out of curiosity, do you feel just as strongly about very
             | prominent social justice programs for humans?
             | 
             | Especially those that target extremely small slices of
             | population (some would say at the expense of other larger,
             | mostly neglected groups)
        
         | infensus wrote:
         | My first thought after seeing that stock image watermark
         | looking line on the dog picture
        
         | d4704 wrote:
         | It's a research project I've seen before - healthspan and
         | lifespan research.
         | 
         | If interested -
         | 
         | Project lead interviewed by Dr. Peter Attia:
         | https://peterattiamd.com/mattkaeberlein/
         | 
         | Rapamycin:
         | https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/15/rapamycin...
        
         | throwaway5752 wrote:
         | Every single longevity project - human or otherwise - is a
         | scam. Fear of dying is the most fundamental one to existence,
         | and scam artists have been exploiting it for as long as there
         | have been people.
         | 
         | Religion promises an eternal afterlife. Cryogenics promises a
         | future thawing and cure in an enlightend and technically
         | advanced future. Plastic surgery puts a veneer over the signs
         | of the natural aging process. The more recent batch have
         | targeted metabolism, growth inhibition (ie rapamycin), etc.
         | 
         | Very wealthy people that don't want to die or don't want their
         | pets to die will never be in short supply. They will still all
         | die, roughly around the same time they would have otherwise
         | from different causes with different infirmities (search for
         | "sirolimus side effects").
         | 
         | Enjoy and make the most of the years you are given. Happy New
         | Year.
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | Obviously most people disagree, but I don't think we should
       | search for medical advances that make life significantly longer.
       | We should search for ideas that make the finite life on this
       | planet significantly better. A longer life is dangerous. If
       | people could live 150 or 200 years that will make the problems on
       | this planet much worse since the desire to accumulate wealth over
       | that time would be insane.
        
         | deanc wrote:
         | > Obviously most people disagree, but I don't think we should
         | search for medical advances that make life significantly
         | longer.
         | 
         | I'd say we should search for medical advances that improve
         | health span, not lifespan.
        
         | typewithrhythm wrote:
         | If I consider the global society I will be living in, I would
         | prefer to see what an extra 30-50 years of high cognitive
         | function for the people most rewarded by our current system
         | produces, rather than trying to define what a good finite life
         | is from some authoritarian.
        
           | vouaobrasil wrote:
           | > for the people most rewarded by our current system
           | 
           | This includes people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, who
           | would make the world better off by the cognitive
           | nonexistance.
        
             | typewithrhythm wrote:
             | Tech billionaires are always a weird focus for this kind of
             | sentiment... Compared to the likes of the Rothschilds (just
             | as a well known example) they are harmless, transparent,
             | and meritocratic.
        
           | ericjmorey wrote:
           | How about an extra 30-50 years under a highly cognitively
           | functioning authoritarian?
        
         | theoreticalmal wrote:
         | Is there much difference between an individual living and
         | accumulating wealth over 200 years vs 3 generations of a family
         | living and accumulating wealth over that time? External factors
         | that change fortunes would mostly still stay the same. Biggest
         | difference I can think of would be less change of an
         | incompetent younger generation throwing the wealth away
        
           | vouaobrasil wrote:
           | Well the "throwing wealth away" is a big difference. And it's
           | not just a matter of wealth. It's what people do with that
           | wealth, such as influence the world negatively. The top 1% of
           | those hell-bent on doing strange things usually don't have
           | children that are similarly obsessed. And finally, it would
           | increase the TOTAL number of people, which would exacerbate
           | the situation because an absolute total number of people
           | means even more exploitation by the rich.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _it would increase the TOTAL number of people, which
             | would exacerbate the situation because an absolute total
             | number of people means even more exploitation by the rich_
             | 
             | The hypothesis is exploitation scales with population?
        
         | throwuxiytayq wrote:
         | > A longer life is dangerous. If people could live 150 or 200
         | years that will make the problems on this planet much worse
         | since the desire to accumulate wealth over that time would be
         | insane.
         | 
         | I honestly think this meme is way more dangerous and insane
         | than the idea of having a longer and healthier life
        
           | yladiz wrote:
           | Why?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _Why?_
             | 
             | If 150 years is dangerous, why not 80?
        
         | hasbot wrote:
         | Apparently they'd agree. From their Project Details page:
         | 
         | > At the Dog Aging Project, we're focused on healthy aging not
         | just lifespan extension. We want to understand the biological
         | and environmental factors that influence aging and intervene to
         | prevent debilitating decline. We imagine a future in which we
         | maximize healthspan--the period of life spent in good health
         | and free from disease--allowing us many more years with high
         | quality of life.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | > A longer life is dangerous.
         | 
         | Just so we know, at what point should we have stopped searching
         | for medical advances that make life significantly longer? I'm
         | assuming you're anti-chemotherapy?
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Obviously most people disagree_
         | 
         | I'd argue _this_ is the popular take. With almost any medical
         | research. "Don't play god" and all that. At least while the
         | benefit is hypothetical.
         | 
         | > _If people could live 150 or 200 years that will make the
         | problems on this planet much worse_
         | 
         | Climate change would become a peach. We love to talk about
         | thinking of the children, but self interest is more powerful
         | among most. Longer lives mean longer-term thinking.
        
         | sundarurfriend wrote:
         | Worse, that wealth accumulation will also lead to cultural
         | stagnation: just like "science advances one funeral at a time",
         | it's a harsh reality that culture also advances one funeral at
         | a time.
         | 
         | Older generations try to take in new ideas - about
         | homosexuality, racial equality, universal human rights,
         | whatever else you can think of - and raise their children with
         | those ideas in place too. And most often, those children find
         | out later that the older generation didn't really believe in
         | what they were saying, at least not to the extent of being able
         | to overcome their own childhood programming. But because this
         | new generation was raised with these new ideas, they're
         | actually able to internalize them and progress society further.
         | 
         | Having older people with stagnant ideas and larger and larger
         | accumulated wealth and power, would be a disastrous headwind
         | against social progress.
        
           | xapata wrote:
           | Like elves in _Shadowrun_.
        
         | 542354234235 wrote:
         | So instead of fixing problems with wealth inequality, just let
         | people die. Should we ban healthcare after 55 so people won't
         | take up valuable resources staying alive? I personally would
         | prefer existing and experiencing all life has to offer.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _I personally would prefer existing and experiencing all
           | life has to offer_
           | 
           | Almost as much as that, I'd prefer people having a longer
           | time horizon on which they draw their lives.
        
       | irs wrote:
       | There is also https://loyal.com - Biotech Startup for
       | researching/ developing longevity drugs for dogs.
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | I was also going to link Loyal, I think they came up on HN last
         | year and had some good discussion:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38447491
         | 
         | There's also https://leapyears.com/ - another project with
         | similar goals. That one is associated with David Sinclair of
         | Harvard Medical School:
         | 
         | https://sinclair.hms.harvard.edu/people/david-sinclair
         | 
         | Personally, I'm optimistic about the capacity of studies and
         | projects like these to extend our knowledge regarding aging.
         | Human trials are fraught with ethical issues, and have very
         | slow feedback loops (acquiring results from a study might take
         | decades, which can be an entire career). Laboratory trials on
         | mice and other small mammals can be more effective, but funding
         | is hard and the results are isolated to a small academic lab.
         | Large-scale supplements for pets can give data in a few years,
         | have lesser (though not negligible) ethical problems, and have
         | built-in funding. The funding process is, of course, a source
         | of conflicts of interest, but it has to be done somehow.
        
       | RadiozRadioz wrote:
       | That AI dog image on the homepage is dreadful. Look at the
       | inconsistency in the depth of field. And the inconsistency of the
       | depth of the physical field the dog is sitting in, left vs right.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | I feel a good startup would be collecting old photos, vetted as
         | pre 2010, and storing them for use by people.
        
           | jessekv wrote:
           | Finally, an actual use for my decades of photos...
        
       | modeless wrote:
       | Unlike futurists I have little hope of our medical system
       | producing radical improvements to human lifespan in my lifetime.
       | Even ASI can't cure aging if it is not allowed to do experiments
       | or if powerful lobbies prevent it from accessing medical data or
       | "displacing" human medical staff.
       | 
       | If we want to get breakthroughs in lifespan extension quickly,
       | they will have to come initially from something like this where
       | vested interests are less strong and regulations less stifling.
       | Not that I think this particular effort is going to do it, but
       | something like it is the only way it could happen.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | While I think that anti-aging is harder than e.g. a successful
         | and sane brain upload, the very thing you say in your second
         | paragraph is why I think we may get it anyway -- my inner cynic
         | says that there are many rich and powerful dictators who will
         | be very happy to volunteer their population as test subjects.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | Aging is not a single thing that can be cured. No one even
         | agrees on what aging is.
         | 
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03936-8
         | 
         | But there's nothing stopping aging related research. Ethics
         | committees allow scientists to conduct experiments as long as
         | those meet proper privacy and safety standards. Nothing is
         | being blocked over concerns about displacing human medical
         | staff so I can't imagine where you're coming up with that type
         | of conspiracy theory.
         | 
         | Even if all rules and regulations were removed there will be no
         | radical improvements to human lifespan in your lifetime. This
         | is fine. You are expendable.
        
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