[HN Gopher] I keep turning my Google Sheets into phone-friendly ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I keep turning my Google Sheets into phone-friendly webapps
        
       Author : cpeterso
       Score  : 569 points
       Date   : 2024-12-30 06:25 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | I've recently been toying with the idea of turning my overly
       | complicated weightlifting Excel into an overly complicated me-
       | only webapp / testflight app. It can't be worse than Excel for
       | iOS!
        
         | abound wrote:
         | Self-plug: I wrote a not-too-overly complicated app for
         | tracking my strength training (a 5/3/1 derivative)
         | 
         | https://github.com/bcspragu/stronk
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Nice. If you havent seen it, I use 531 calculator religiously
           | and it has a ton of programs on it, and very customizable
           | https://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator?
           | 
           | Might inspire you as you continue to develop your app
        
           | worthless-trash wrote:
           | I use stronk (531 BBB) ! Its a damn small world!
           | 
           | I exported most of my data from "Strong" into Stronk, was
           | easy. Thanks !
           | 
           | The interface showed lbs, but my values were all kg, still
           | works.
        
         | dcreater wrote:
         | This is exactly what I've wanted to do for a long time. All the
         | apps in the app store are money sucking or ad ridden and
         | unnecessarily cluttered.
         | 
         | I want a simple front end that lets me log lifts to a
         | sheet/database
        
           | httpsterio wrote:
           | you could do an ios shortcut that fills a numbers sheet for
           | you
        
           | hackernewds wrote:
           | get Claude to make an app and publish it as a PBA
        
           | tmpz22 wrote:
           | I've been jotting them down in a standardized format in apple
           | notes and using a regex to parse them into structured json
           | for later analysis.
           | 
           | For all the apps that are supposed to make this easier none
           | of them do it right.
        
             | fudged71 wrote:
             | I'm verrrry interested in your regex!! Can you share?
             | 
             | I'm interested in building a fitness ontology/terminology
             | linked to a tokenizer and parser.
        
             | maxglute wrote:
             | I'm doing something similar, incidentally in a wildly
             | complicated google sheets + appscripts
             | 
             | lot in google keep and copy paste, then sheet does rest
             | 
             | https://imgur.com/a/xoHaxFY (3 images)
             | 
             | notation is ColB, it'll generate relevant metrics, running
             | total for some metrics like sets / INOL
             | 
             | I also have onedit in sheet where if I put $$ anywhere it
             | will calculate for the row
             | 
             | if I have:
             | 
             | ++5,10 it will generate warmups 5 reps jumps at 10%, back
             | to 50%
             | 
             | +++5,10 will do ramping warmups i.e. x5, x4, x3, x2, x1
             | 
             | whatever last onedit row will also split up Rep PRs at top
             | 
             | Most useful for me is auto cycle naming and visualization,
             | i.e. the house keeping stuff that makes all the other apps
             | finicky vs just logging on paper or note
             | 
             | #### date = program name
             | 
             | ### macrocycle (i.e. month)
             | 
             | ## mesocycle (i.e. week)
             | 
             | # microcycle (i.e. day)
             | 
             | so it will auto generate something like
             | 
             | #24/12/27
             | 
             | #24/12/27[188/58] [3/2/4/4] [2D AGO]  (0,4,4,3)
             | 
             | 188th session / 58th session of this program (program 3,
             | macro 3 / meso 4/ micro 4), done XYZ days ago. (0,4,4,3) is
             | push, pull, legs, fatigue/recovery out of 5
             | 
             | Visualization shows on/off days so you can get good
             | timeline sense
             | 
             | box border for mesocycles (week) with how many days at
             | corner (useful for intuitive training)
             | 
             | bars are volume (500lb increments) for varios tags (i.e. bp
             | for all bench press variations)
             | 
             | underline shows inol status for session (none, single under
             | line, double underline, thick underline for >0.4, 1, 2, 2+
             | 
             | it'll highlight extra good or bad sessions i.e. (5,4,0,3)
             | was a very good push day
             | 
             | Now mostly i goto gym, log in google keep:
             | 
             | #YY/MM/DD (performance) comments
             | 
             | ex1 (reps x sets) comments
             | 
             | ex2 (reps x sets) comments
             | 
             | ex3 (reps x sets) comments
             | 
             | Copy and paste into sheet when I feel like it and review
             | metrics graph when needed
        
           | sandspar wrote:
           | I use Google Forms to send data to a Google Sheet. You just
           | put whatever lifts you have in the Form with spaces to add
           | weights. I use this Google Form --> Google Sheets thing for a
           | dozen different things.
        
             | datadrivenangel wrote:
             | I do this same Google Form technique, and save the bookmark
             | to my phone's home screen. So it's like having a dedicated
             | app!
        
         | tcandens wrote:
         | This seems like a common predicament. I made this one mostly
         | for myself and to try out VLCN sqlite sync.
         | https://www.dumblift.com
        
         | m-zuber wrote:
         | I've been very impressed with hevy[0] so far
         | 
         | [0] https://www.hevyapp.com/
        
         | adlotsof wrote:
         | I use https://www.liftosaur.com/ which allows for overly
         | complicated stuff with its liftoscript DSL
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Is Glide better than AppSheets?
        
         | lurn_mor wrote:
         | Easier, but more expensive in the long run.
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Our customers who've switched from AppSheet tell us
         | emphatically "yes" because of Glide's ease of use, power, and
         | the design of the apps it produces.
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | Let go of your complex solutions. Spreadsheets were the right
       | answer all along.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | I organize my life with spreadsheets and it works great.
         | Running Spreadsheet, Health Spreadsheet, Investing Spreadsheet,
         | Gardening Spreadsheet, on and on. :) It's just the best way to
         | examine the data that is your life and have any hope of
         | remembering the past and improve the future.
        
           | genghisjahn wrote:
           | I've kept my finances on a google sheet for well over a
           | decade. And it was old excel before that.
        
         | crabmusket wrote:
         | I think the mobile form factor has something to say about that.
         | I somewhat agree (reluctantly) for desktop usage, but
         | spreadsheets are too complex to be ergonomic with small touch
         | screens.
        
         | larodi wrote:
         | Yes, so was IBM/360 in text mode but someone wanted to draw
         | nice buttons.
        
         | bentcorner wrote:
         | My wife had surgery last summer and had about 10 medications
         | she needed to take immediately afterwards - each of them had
         | their own period so I needed to know what we took, and what was
         | "overdue" at any point in time.
         | 
         | I whipped up a spreadsheet in google sheets and added a google
         | form that allowed me to quickly pick a medication that was just
         | taken - it'd enter it into the sheet and an "overview" page
         | would show me what was pending, with color coding if something
         | was "overdue".
         | 
         | I felt like I was abusing what a spreadsheet was meant for but
         | it worked quite well.
         | 
         | If I knew about Glide I probably could have made it look even
         | nicer.
        
       | Neywiny wrote:
       | Tbh sheets has gotten a lot better over the years. It's not hard
       | to autofill and other things that used to be impossible or too
       | obscure to figure out. I'll stick with the free platform for
       | things just for me
        
       | tekknolagi wrote:
       | See also: retool
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Retool is great, although they explicitly build for developers
         | and building on retool requires writing glue code in their
         | JavaScript template language, and writing SQL queries.
         | 
         | In Glide, we avoid code and syntax as much as possible. Our
         | table-driven programming model also creates a nice MVC-like
         | separation of concerns where you don't end up with your program
         | chaotically interspersed with controls on a canvas, so your
         | program is easier to manage as it scales (in exchange for being
         | less direct to create).
        
       | gunalx wrote:
       | Why lock down to a nocode tool instead of just hacking together a
       | simple html5 page?
       | 
       | Ai assistants have speed up the prototype workflow for doing less
       | code/design.
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | Presumably so they can hook into an external datasource
        
           | HaZeust wrote:
           | so can a simple HTML5 page with a jquery script tag
        
             | drekipus wrote:
             | I've always heard of completely devoid out of touch
             | developers but this is the first I've seen it so
             | pronounced.
        
               | superb_dev wrote:
               | Did you skip web design 101? If it's simple enough, you
               | can absolutely slap it together with jQuery and html.
        
               | jay-barronville wrote:
               | Time is a valuable resource. This doesn't simply boil
               | down to one's abilities--for most of us, opportunity cost
               | is an important factor. If I'm just trying to get some
               | value out of some data, why waste time playing web
               | developer, fighting CSS, dealing with CORS issues, etc.,
               | when I could simply use an existing tool that already has
               | my use case covered?
        
               | superb_dev wrote:
               | Why waste your time? Some of us are just in it for the
               | love of the game
        
               | jay-barronville wrote:
               | Ha. You said exactly what was on my mind.
        
               | Modified3019 wrote:
               | Yeah, I can't tell if some of these responses are serious
               | or tongue in cheek.
        
               | smarx007 wrote:
               | The classic: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
        
               | HaZeust wrote:
               | One day left for 2024 and snark is dead; hopefully it's
               | revived in 2025!
        
         | FlamingMoe wrote:
         | True that Claude can generate a simple working prototype in a
         | single prompt. But there's still the friction of deploying the
         | app, making it accessible across devices, and easily managing
         | updates. Which something like Glide streamlines for non-
         | technical users.
        
           | hackernewds wrote:
           | publish it as a website and download it as a PWA
        
             | franga2000 wrote:
             | Even just "make it a PWA" can take an experienced frontend
             | developer a day or more. The manifest needs to be _just
             | right_ , the server might need to be reconfigured to serve
             | the right MIME type, you need to generate a few mandatory
             | icon sizes, you need a service worker even if you're not
             | using it...
             | 
             | If you're using a big framework like Vite, this is somewhat
             | easier, but then it's not a "simple html file" anymore and
             | you spend just as much time fiddling with framework stuff.
        
           | reustle wrote:
           | For those curious, you can also do some pretty fast
           | prototyping (including deploy) with https://bolt.new and
           | https://v0.dev (vercel). Sometimes even a single prompt.
        
         | larodi wrote:
         | Cause guy does not code perhaps? Otherwise siding with this
         | comment thread. Claude indeed does super rapid html5 dev a
         | child's play.
        
         | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
         | Why buy a bike when you can assemble one from parts?
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | He kind of answered you in TFA:
         | 
         | > I can feel some people reading this article demanding that I
         | just learn Swift or some mobile-friendly JavaScript package and
         | make some real apps, but I steadfastly refuse. I enjoy the
         | messy middle of programming, where I have just enough app, API,
         | and logic knowledge to make something small for my friends and
         | family that's always accessible on this little computer I carry
         | everywhere, but I have no ambitions to make it "real."
        
         | Too wrote:
         | An AI generated page will be full of security holes that a non
         | programmer will be unable to assess.
         | 
         | I'm not normally a fan of nocode but dude, get real, the target
         | user for this will have zero chance of understanding and
         | maintaining the output if it's in code. Compared to pick your
         | column and choose the type of widget you want it represented
         | as. Below the tip of that iceberg there are also lots of non
         | trivial features like search and sync.
        
       | rdiddly wrote:
       | The hack quotient on this is high, so that's good, though
       | ironically it's hacking around all the BS we put up with
       | (languages, frameworks) to get a programming project up and
       | running!
        
       | e12e wrote:
       | Opening Glide on my phone, I'm greeted with:
       | 
       | > Open Glide on a large screen to build apps.
       | 
       | I get it - but a little ironic that one can't get started with an
       | existing sheet...
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Yes, we agree.
         | 
         | We have a mobile experience in the works!
         | https://glideapps.com/create
        
       | est wrote:
       | I keep changing the last part of Google spreadsheets URL from
       | /edit to /preview
       | 
       | Much better loading time.
        
       | deweywsu wrote:
       | Glide appears pretty cool, except that the next level up plan
       | over the free one is $69 per month, more than a little steep for
       | most personal users. I myself am wondering if there are any good
       | projects out there that do similar things but that use either
       | local databases or even browser storage?
        
         | harikb wrote:
         | I think the key value of Google sheets link is that you can do
         | rest of your aggregation/data fixes on Google sheets. And data
         | is in your control
         | 
         | I made an app for a meetup/reunion, but 10 user limit meant
         | everyone had to given a shared password
         | 
         | Like you, I would happily pay for many many services about
         | 10/month - right where streaming subscriptions are. But none of
         | these companies seem to understand that part...
        
       | pspeter3 wrote:
       | I wish Google Sheets supported a REST API for their new tables
       | feature so you could interact with them more like a database and
       | less like a 2D array
        
         | altbdoor wrote:
         | You could more or less achieve this, by using a Google Apps
         | Script that exposes the sheet. I found spreadapi to be good
         | enough for basic use.
         | 
         | https://github.com/ziolko/spreadapi
        
           | pspeter3 wrote:
           | This is great, thanks!
        
       | dcre wrote:
       | I use Notion databases for this. They're essentially spreadsheets
       | with customizable table, list, kanban views, and each row gets
       | its own wiki-style page in addition to the structured data. So
       | it's nice for lists of books or movies or games, where you have
       | some metadata but you also might want to take notes on it when
       | you read/watch/play. It works pretty well for this purpose, but I
       | also could probably make Obsidian or Logseq work and it would
       | have a better privacy story, give me more control over the shape
       | of the data, and not cost $48 a year (though I don't really mind
       | paying).
       | 
       | https://www.notion.com/help/intro-to-databases
       | 
       | I have been looking for a way to switch from Notion since they
       | rolled out AI features without an opt-out (besides emailing
       | them). I don't even dislike LLMs, I just want to know what I'm
       | sending them and when.
        
         | pjot wrote:
         | A little know Google product is called Tables[0]. Very similar
         | to what you're describing.
         | 
         | Another is AppSheet[1] for a more drag and drop application
         | builder.
         | 
         | [0]: https://tables.area120.google.com/
         | 
         | [1]: https://about.appsheet.com/home/
        
           | edoceo wrote:
           | From the Tables page:
           | 
           | Important update: The Beta program is now closed Tables is no
           | longer accepting new users for its Beta program
        
             | do_not_redeem wrote:
             | Also,
             | 
             | > Table's features and capabilities are now integrated into
             | AppSheet, our no-code platform that blah blah blah
             | 
             | Seems like a usual Google product in that if you use it,
             | you'll be forced to migrate all your data/workflows to some
             | shiny new thing every few years.
        
         | do_not_redeem wrote:
         | I badly, badly wish Obsidian had some kind of
         | database/spreadsheet feature. I'm limping along with
         | LibreOffice spreadsheets for privacy, but it's a pain having my
         | notes in two different formats. And I miss grep.
        
           | alostpuppy wrote:
           | What would you use this feature for?
        
             | do_not_redeem wrote:
             | Basically what parent said, little personal database
             | tables. Example: I have a list of 100 movies I want to see,
             | and I have columns like date watched, year released, should
             | I rewatch again in 10 years, notes, etc. I want to be able
             | to do two things:
             | 
             | 1. Sort/filter by columns (ex: status = not watched)
             | 
             | 2. Add markdown like "[[Steve]] told me to watch this" and
             | have backlinks etc. work seamlessly with the rest of my
             | notes.
             | 
             | I know you can do that with Obsidian "properties" but I
             | don't want 100 separate files for my to-watch list.
             | 
             | And I've tried a few of the Obsidian database plugins too,
             | but as far as keyboard usability none of them came close to
             | VisiData or LibreOffice.
        
               | jddj wrote:
               | I think this all works out of the box with logseq.
               | 
               | You can create a movie template with a few props then put
               | them anywhere and then tabularise all the entries with a
               | query.
        
           | adhamsalama wrote:
           | Try SiYuan Note. It was posted here a couple of days ago.
        
         | llamaimperative wrote:
         | You should check out Fibery. It's ultimately like Notion but a
         | lot more performant and less "finicky" due to being too clever
         | about UX, in my opinion.
        
           | dcre wrote:
           | Definitely interesting. I think if I was going to put in the
           | effort of switching, it would probably be to more of a labor
           | of love pain in the ass situation like Obsidian where I can
           | be more in control.
           | 
           | My use case would easily fit into the Fibery free plan.
           | Amusingly, their own comparison page argues that Notion is a
           | better fit for me:
           | 
           | "Where Fibery works better?
           | 
           | Processes and work management for medium and large teams.
           | Complex processes like product management, feedback
           | management, user research, software development tracking.
           | 
           | Where Notion works better?
           | 
           | Personal life organizer. Small/medium company wiki. Work
           | management for teams with simple processes."
           | 
           | https://fibery.io/fibery-vs-x
        
             | llamaimperative wrote:
             | I'm a heavy Obsidian user personally, started using Fibery
             | for my startup, and now I'm starting to use Fibery for
             | personal stuff over Obsidian as well.
             | 
             | Obsidian is a better note-taker, but Fibery is much more
             | programmable and has the most important OOTB feature of
             | Obsidian which is bidirectional linking (IMO).
             | 
             | I don't think Fibery gives you less control except in the
             | sense of like data ownership (which is what brought me to
             | Obsidian back in the day).
             | 
             | More key bindings for Fibery would also be appreciated :)
        
               | dcre wrote:
               | Funny about backlinks -- Notion has had them since 2020
               | and I've never once looked at the backlinks for a given
               | page. I don't think any of my pages link to each other.
        
           | freetonik wrote:
           | I was commissioned to make a video explaining what Fivery is
           | and what makes it powerful. It was a couple of years ago, but
           | I believe the core principles still stand. In case someone is
           | interested to learn more and is ok with video format, check
           | it out: https://youtu.be/ddgJGoQBdtQ
           | 
           | I think Fibery is a very interesting product and an
           | incredibly powerful platform. Developed by a small team.
        
         | wim wrote:
         | We're building Thymer [1] for this, which is end-to-end
         | encrypted, offline-first and optionally self-hostable. It's
         | like an editor but you can organize anything into custom
         | database views, we hope to get it ready soon.
         | 
         | [1] https://thymer.com/
        
           | dcre wrote:
           | Very cool! Will be keeping an eye out for it.
        
       | larodi wrote:
       | Basically: Guy reinvents MS Access on Google sheets 40 years
       | later.
       | 
       | Disclaim: this is not to say Access is to be despised of or
       | anything. People found its utility for many years and the fact it
       | is not what Boyce/Codd suggested they do with their tables, does
       | not make it irrelevant. There was an article about how it just
       | refuses to die and why. Worth reading for everyone interested in
       | computer and computing history.
        
       | anyfactor wrote:
       | I've built quite a few dashboards while working on proof-of-
       | concept feature/product engineering. Even though people often
       | think I'm joking, almost always the backend database was a Google
       | Sheet. Google Sheets has great API support, easy to write
       | functionality, convenient read and file dumps, works well with
       | Pandas/SQL, and has a universally appreciated UX. Data validation
       | can be annoying if the "admin" directly enters data, but for
       | building a proof of concept, nothing beats Google Sheets. The
       | data from Google Sheets would be passed through an API to a web
       | UI/dashboard. The dashboard I built for end users was a simple
       | Bootstrap (Vue-Bootstrap) table from the API, with enough easy-
       | to-use filters and views to work out of the box. If the data was
       | too large, I would use a templated snippet to convert the JSON
       | into a card view. Ignoring long-term maintainability, this was
       | one of the most foolproof ways to build dashboards. After that,
       | I'd slap Firebase Auth on top, and that was it.
       | 
       | I haven't worked on these types of projects for nearly two years
       | now. Folks I know use Retool or Softr with an API connectivity
       | platform like Portable, Pipedream, or Zapier. If you're staring
       | at a spreadsheet on a daily basis, the next step should be
       | looking into an app builder combined with an API connection
       | platform.
        
         | mettamage wrote:
         | Love it. I think my prototyping capabilities just extended by
         | this comment
        
         | vishnugupta wrote:
         | Currently I manage my startup's accounting in Google sheet, and
         | your comment gave me an idea to enhance it with Google Forms!
        
           | ezst wrote:
           | That... Sounds scary.
        
             | ska wrote:
             | Clunky, but should be ok assuming a) a pretty simple
             | structure and cashflow b) properly implemented double-
             | entry, and c) backups.
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Accounting in a spreadsheet is scary?
        
         | tonyhart7 wrote:
         | hey we do the same thing lol, google sheets is great and
         | sometimes if I have or want more I can just simply use
         | pocketbase for easy solution
         | 
         | these 2 tools is great for easy/fast prototype various project
         | and honestly its kinda hard to replace
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | Monzo (online bank in UK) let you see all your transactions in
         | a Google sheet (with some caveats e.g. interest earned is
         | skipped). I wanted to make a total wealth chart over all years.
         | 
         | It's so damn complicated in Google sheets. In MS Excel I could
         | simply make a pivot chart, apply any aggregation on days/weeks
         | and be done with it. But with Sheets I had to make a new
         | aggregate column, filter data in another new column, and make a
         | chart on that.
         | 
         | Your comment does explain that API is why they export to sheets
         | and not excel but Google sheets is way behind in ease of use.
        
           | BillinghamJ wrote:
           | Google Sheets can do that - https://officewheel.com/group-
           | dates-in-pivot-table-google-sh...
        
           | miki123211 wrote:
           | My bank just exports to CSV, which is trivially importable to
           | Excel, Sheets, Pandas or whatever else you need.
        
             | maxique wrote:
             | As I understand it, the appeal of Monzo's way is it's live
             | updating rather than having to log in to some horribly
             | outdated online banking portal and manually export
        
           | homebrewer wrote:
           | You're fine with Google seeing complete information about
           | your income and spending? I'm not one of those truly
           | paranoid, but this seems like a bit too much.
        
             | diggan wrote:
             | That seems like the least "compromising" data, compared to
             | other things we let them get.
             | 
             | Imagine there are whole countries out there where income is
             | public and accessible to anyone ;)
        
             | pxeger1 wrote:
             | What's your risk model here? Google are not manually or
             | automatically inspecting the contents of your spreadsheets
             | in order to profile you and show you better-personalised
             | ads. Not enough people have such a spreadsheet for it to be
             | worth it for them, I'm sure - and they also probably
             | already know approximately how wealthy you are. Unless
             | you're under investigation for fraud or something, I doubt
             | the government could get much use out of being able to
             | access your financial spreadsheets via Google compared to
             | the information they already get directly from banks etc.
             | So that only really leaves criminals (for whom I still
             | can't see a great incentive to read your spreadsheets), and
             | I also don't really think your Google account is much less
             | secure than your computer's local storage (if that's the
             | other place you would keep it)
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | We've learned over and over that tech companies do things
               | which seemingly make no sense to us, but do to them. Not
               | being able to imagine it is not sufficient. Nothing is
               | deleted anymore as well, in hopes it will be useful
               | later.
               | 
               | That said I don't see a huge risk here, unless combined
               | with lots of other data. Would probably avoid though.
        
             | cootsnuck wrote:
             | I hope you don't use Gmail if that's your attitude lol.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | I only care about humans seeing my data.
             | 
             | Most big tech companies very rarely/never let a human
             | review private customer data. Therefore I'm fine handing
             | all the data over to big tech companies.
             | 
             | I don't really understand any other point of view - if
             | you're worried about a _machine_ seeing your private stuff,
             | why did you type it into a keyboard in the first place?
        
               | remus wrote:
               | > if you're worried about a machine seeing your private
               | stuff, why did you type it into a keyboard in the first
               | place?
               | 
               | Who owns that machine is important though. I don't mind
               | putting my card details in via my phone to buy something
               | because there's a level of trust in the whole system
               | (it's my phone, I have a level of trust that google is
               | not going to steal my card details via android, and a
               | level of trust that the shop is legit and will process my
               | order.)
               | 
               | If some random person off the street asked me to type my
               | card details into their phone that's a very different
               | ball game as I don't inherently trust them.
        
               | briandear wrote:
               | I don't care that much about card details. If I see a
               | fraudulent transaction, I dispute it and it's done. But
               | my personal financial details/etc -- that's much
               | different than a payment mechanism.
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | > _Most big tech companies very rarely /never let a human
               | review private customer data. Therefore I'm fine handing
               | all the data over to big tech companies._
               | 
               | This isn't true. Google and Apple and others turn over
               | user data to human analysts at NSA and FBI and others
               | _without search warrants_ all of the time, on hundreds of
               | thousands of user accounts per year.
               | 
               | To be fine handing all the data over to big tech
               | companies, you have to be fine handing all of the data
               | over to US federal cops and intelligence services, too,
               | because that's what giving the data (in non-e2ee form) to
               | big tech means.
        
               | martyvis wrote:
               | Actually I have heard the exact opposite of what you are
               | stating is true. Both Google and Apple fight very hard to
               | avoid handing data to authorities. They don't want to be
               | seen as some sort of easy conduit to government
               | surveillance or shill. How does that benefit their
               | reputation? I know of one case where Google spent
               | millions on lawyers fighting government wanting access to
               | an activist's email. Their FAQ here makes their policy
               | pretty clear. https://support.google.com/transparencyrepo
               | rt/answer/9713961...
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Apple's own transparency report indicates they turn over
               | data to the USG for over 100,000 different apple IDs each
               | year in the no-warrant-or-probable-cause (FISA orders and
               | NSLs) category.
               | 
               | (Mind you; this includes device location histories due to
               | geoip logs, unique identifiers, iMessage histories,
               | photos, documents, everything.)
               | 
               | The cases they are allowed to tell you about aren't in
               | this category. They aren't even allowed to say exactly
               | how many of the secret warrantless orders they received,
               | or exactly how many users were affectee, only 500-count
               | ranges.
               | 
               | For just Apple, for just January 2023 to June 2023 (six
               | months):
               | 
               | National Security - FISA Non-Content Requests
               | 
               | Table for National Security - FISA Non-Content Requests
               | Data
               | 
               | Requests Received 0 - 499
               | 
               | Users/Accounts 40,500 - 40,999
               | 
               | National Security - FISA Content Requests
               | 
               | Table displaying National Security - FISA Content
               | Requests
               | 
               | Requests Received 500 - 999
               | 
               | Users/Accounts 50,500 - 50,999
               | 
               | National Security Letter Requests
               | 
               | Table for National Security Letter Requests data
               | 
               | Requests Received 0 - 499
               | 
               | Users/Accounts 1,000 - 1,499
               | 
               | National Security Letters where Non-disclosure Order
               | Lifted
               | 
               | 0
               | 
               | I encourage you to read it for yourself:
               | 
               | https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html
        
               | imchillyb wrote:
               | > ...no-warrant-or-probable-cause (FISA orders and
               | NSLs)...
               | 
               | These are not equivalents, nor are they similar. FISA =
               | Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court / NSL = National
               | Security Letter.
               | 
               | If a person is the target of the FISA system, there most
               | certainly is probable cause.
               | 
               | National Security Letter is a gag order, given by the
               | intelligence community, in order to protect national
               | security.
               | 
               | Again, if you or your organization receives one of these,
               | there most certainly is probable cause.
               | 
               | These systems may be detestable, but there's no need to
               | make things up.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | > Apple's own transparency report indicates they turn
               | over data to the USG for over 100,000 different apple IDs
               | each year in the no-warrant-or-probable-cause (FISA
               | orders and NSLs) category.
               | 
               | FISA "orders" are warrants and have the same requirement
               | for probable cause as any search or seizure warrant (they
               | aren't criminal warrants so the probable cause is not of
               | there being evidence of a crime, but of the target being
               | an agent of a foreign power.)
               | 
               | NSLs are administrative subpoenas accompanied with gag
               | orders, not warrants, and correspondingly do not have a
               | probable cause requirement; unlike warrants (and like
               | other subpoenas), they are subject to precompliance
               | challenge (and the associated gag order is challengable
               | separately.)
        
           | flokie wrote:
           | What about just plain old query() SQL i usually find the
           | easiest vs. mucking around with pivot tables.
        
             | Closi wrote:
             | SQL is fine if you don't want to play with the data
             | interactively - but that's the real benefit of Pivot
             | Tables.
             | 
             | Things like drilling through, filtering/slicing, and then
             | generating a graph, all in SaaS without having to run
             | anything local.
        
         | OxfordOutlander wrote:
         | +1 for googlesheets. It is stable, and provided you don't
         | exceed the API limits, you can run a lot of data through it.
         | Appscript is also incredibly powerful if you work with tools
         | that have decent APIs. With a few lines of js and the built in
         | trigger functions, you can have an automatically updating
         | dashboard with email notifications when certain conditions are
         | met (e.g. balance too low, user engagement metric does X etc).
        
         | specproc wrote:
         | The article mentions appsheets, which I absolutely loved in my
         | last role.
         | 
         | Brilliant for knocking up very simple internal tooling off the
         | back of a Google Sheet. Most importantly, there was zero
         | fucking around with IT on it, as it was already included in our
         | workspace package.
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | Firebase auth? Would it be possible for a savvy end user to
         | replicate your API calls to Google Sheets directly to bypass
         | the auth?
        
         | ramzis wrote:
         | > for building a proof of concept, nothing beats Google Sheets
         | 
         | Supabase is free and checks all the boxes in addition to having
         | auth, vector search, logs, security, and not being ... Google
        
         | xtiansimon wrote:
         | Slightly off-topic.
         | 
         | In small business accounting, I have a persistent need for a
         | FileMaker Pro like solution for invoices. FMP was conscious of
         | on-screen layout and print.
         | 
         | ReTool has been recommended as similar replacement for FMP but
         | they don't have the idea of creating print-ready documented
         | receipts and invoices. You don't even need to print it, you
         | just need to keep it for the IRS.
         | 
         | I love the idea of using Google Sheets and turnkey app building
         | apps. But I still need documentation.
        
           | carlosjobim wrote:
           | There's gotta be a ton of solutions for sale for small
           | business accounting, no? Among them FileMaker pro?
        
         | ezst wrote:
         | If I want a database set up in minutes just to focus on the
         | business side and nothing else, I simply fire up a new Django
         | project (I suspect any other framework with an ORM and auto-
         | generated CRUD UIs would be equally competent for that).
         | 
         | I have nothing against Google Sheets, I really haven't put much
         | thought into it in this context, but I would need some
         | convincing that it's a better and easier way to kick things
         | off.
        
           | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
           | That Django project needs a host to run on, even if it's just
           | your local machine.
           | 
           | If you want others to interact with it, you need to expose it
           | to the internet through some means and think through the
           | security implications of doing so.
           | 
           | The Google Sheets approach doesn't need you to manage a
           | process or web server. It is instantly shareable while
           | letting Google worry about security, performance,
           | availability, etc.
           | 
           | The specifics of the "what's better?" ratio can shift
           | depending on comfort level / experience with either product,
           | or what infrastructure you may already have available to
           | deploy to. But building on top of GApps does mean you get a
           | lot of useful aspects "free".
        
             | ezst wrote:
             | Thanks, that's a valid point. I have never thought of
             | publishing a PoC web app as more than pushing some files on
             | a server and editing a config file, but now I see how not
             | everyone can be familiar with that.
        
           | liontwist wrote:
           | I like to just start with a SQLite UI editor.
           | 
           | You can just query a database and work with the results
           | directly . In a dynamic language like python there is little
           | advantage to loading rows into classes. That Django query
           | language is so painful and opaque.
        
         | maximinus_thrax wrote:
         | Back in 2010, I was in a work meeting making small talk and we
         | were discussing how cringe some advertising is nowadays. One of
         | us, a program manager who was ~15 years my senior told me it's
         | because we're not the target demographic and that millennials
         | are targeted differently, mainly through word-of-mouth and
         | generally Guerrilla marketing tactics.
         | 
         | Whenever I see articles like these and comments like yours, I
         | can't stop thinking about that meeting.
         | 
         | Edit: to clarify, I am not accusing you of anything. But I do
         | suspect the article to be part of a Google marketing campaign.
        
         | mosburger wrote:
         | I wonder if anyone has ever made an ORM adapter that works with
         | Google Sheets as its "Database"?
        
         | zem wrote:
         | I've built a scrabble tournament management app on google
         | sheets, because it was the easiest way I could think of to let
         | multiple people edit it with all the others seeing live
         | updates. From a developer's point of view it kind of sucks,
         | having to maintain everything in one large javascript file and
         | having to use spreadsheet tabs as input and output, not to
         | mention manually attaching the script to a new sheet for every
         | tournament. But the user experience has been excellent, modulo
         | a few permissions glitches.
         | 
         | I'm still trying to rewrite it as a self hosted web app this
         | year because the aforementioned permissions glitches and the
         | difficulty of doing versioned deployments has made me reluctant
         | to continue relying on google, but overall sheets has been a
         | huge boon and we have gotten years of use out of it.
        
       | fijiaarone wrote:
       | Nice ad
        
       | zie wrote:
       | I tried going all on on Google Sheets earlier this year. I used
       | the Python API and like almost nothing worked consistently.
       | 
       | I got 1 sheet to work well with like 1k rows and thought woohoo
       | this is great! So I went all-in, put 25k rows in and Google
       | pooped the bed. It gave errors all the time, rows and columns
       | were funky. API issues galore.
       | 
       | SQLite however handled 25k rows without any errors, always rock
       | solid.
       | 
       | I gave up. Overall a terrible experience once I got past 1k rows.
       | I'm glad it's worked well for you.
       | 
       | I only had like 10 columns, so it wasn't like massive amounts of
       | data. I was linking to a file out in Google Drive and that was
       | where most of my issues were. Google drive's API was 99.99%
       | completely useless.
       | 
       | My takeaway from the experience was, Google proclaims they have
       | an API, but it seems more like nobody tests it or cares about it.
       | Perhaps it's malicious compliance, they have it because they have
       | to have an API, but not because they expect anyone to actually
       | use it.
       | 
       | Perhaps I'm just not cool enough for Google.
        
         | anyfactor wrote:
         | The projects I worked on always had a mechanism to dump data
         | into a proper database. For example, I built a daily scraper to
         | collect some of the inventory. I didn't keep all the data in a
         | single sheet. Instead, all the data was stored in a cloud-based
         | managed SQLite or PostgreSQL database, or sometimes a local
         | SQLite database. Only the day's data was stored in Google
         | Sheets because the client wanted to see the spreadsheet
         | themselves and have the UI be accessible for their users.
        
           | matharmin wrote:
           | It feels a little misleading to say you're using Google
           | Sheets as the backend database, when you need an actual
           | database in conjunction with it.
        
             | mattigames wrote:
             | Extremely misleading, in this case Google Sheets it's
             | working more like a frontend
        
         | worthless-trash wrote:
         | Thank you for discussing this openly, it can be a real bummer
         | to write something, test it, have something work up to a point
         | then fail due to situations outside your control.
         | 
         | You probably just saved me about 20 hours of coding.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | to be fair, 25k rows seems like a few more rows than I'd use
           | a spreadsheet for
        
             | benatkin wrote:
             | Did the commenter say that it was being edited
             | concurrently? Because that's the only circumstance in which
             | it would really be acceptable for it to break like that.
        
             | lelandfe wrote:
             | Wait till you hear about the spreadsheets researchers
             | use... My chemist friend uses Excel files that regularly
             | exceed 2GB of just text...
        
               | levocardia wrote:
               | which is an awful idea because some versions of Excel
               | will, if you open a file with more than 1million rows (or
               | ~16k columns), automatically truncate _and delete_ the
               | excess data! And don 't even get me started on automatic
               | date conversion.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Computer illiteracy and shitty platforms (MSOffice is not
               | apt for science at all) costs Scientists biliions on
               | broken research:
               | 
               | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02211-4?error=
               | coo...
        
             | terribleperson wrote:
             | Unreasonably large spreadsheets are surprisingly common.
             | Excel 2007's row limit was 65536, and nowadays it's over a
             | million. Spreadsheets actually get that big, too.
        
               | lpapez wrote:
               | An app I worked on once wanted a Google Sheets
               | Integration - just a quick button to import rows from the
               | database and into the spreadsheet so that the client can
               | do some quick visualization and pie charts (I offered
               | them a readonly DB account but they didn't know any SQL).
               | 
               | Few years have passed, and there are currently 470
               | THOUSAND rows with 20+ columns in that spreadsheet which
               | is used almost daily.
               | 
               | Rewriting this into a proper web app would take maybe a
               | week (the API is already there and used by GS), but was
               | never deemed a priority, so it will keep existing in the
               | backlog until we hit row or cell limits - after which it
               | will suddenly become urgent...
        
             | javier2 wrote:
             | Is 25k a lot? I regularly make google sheets with 400k
             | rows, but those are manual csv dumps from a real database
             | that I just import
        
         | neeleshs wrote:
         | I have had a similar experience with their API. Very verbose
         | json structure, lack of stable row IDs, inconsistent data
         | types. And being a spreadsheet, it also has to have
         | styling/formatting details, complicating it even more.
        
         | hliyan wrote:
         | If you have more than a few thousand records, this is the wrong
         | tool for the job. I've used Google Sheets as a "database" for a
         | few applications in the past. In each case, it was an internal
         | tool that did not generate more than a few thousand records, if
         | that.
        
           | p2detar wrote:
           | A few thousand like the product of rows*cols? Just curious.
        
             | baobun wrote:
             | records = rows
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Even text files (like CSV) are fine for the amount of data
           | the OP has trouble with, and Excel certainly is, so it's
           | unclear why Google Sheets should already balk on that. Google
           | Sheets has a limit of 10 million cells per sheet (so for
           | 25000 rows that would be 400 columns), and really shouldn't
           | be running into errors for sheets below that limit.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | > If you have more than a few thousand records, this is the
           | wrong tool for the job.
           | 
           | Just to be precise, Google Sheets might be the wrong tool for
           | the job. Other spreadsheet applications can handle "more than
           | a few thousand records" easily, seems this is a Google Sheets
           | specific issue.
        
             | mattigames wrote:
             | I wouldn't be surprised if it's not fixed on purpose, they
             | do have cloud DB offering and all that overpriced jazz to
             | sell you.
        
           | baobun wrote:
           | Can also be a feature to cap the potential scale for a PoC
           | you want to keep from getting productized as-is.
        
         | lovasoa wrote:
         | Starting with a Google Sheet is perfectly fine, but for
         | building a non tabular user interface, or having a few thousand
         | records, I would directly switch to something like SQLPage with
         | a SQLite database.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | There are extensions that let you query Excel worksheet files
         | directly from SQLite (no importing, no transformation, just
         | direct query). It's quite fun to do; you can use Excel (or
         | Libre office, etc.) to maintain the spreadsheet, and build
         | reports with SQLite.
        
           | zoomablemind wrote:
           | Could you mention a few of such, to save time going through
           | search results?
        
             | bambax wrote:
             | The one I use is xlite
             | 
             | https://github.com/x2bool/xlite
             | 
             | It's read-only and mounts spreadsheets as virtual tables.
             | Very fast.
             | 
             | Perhaps more relevant to this thread, libgsqlite loads
             | Google Sheets as virtual tables:
             | 
             | https://github.com/0x6b/libgsqlite
             | 
             | (I haven't tested it though.)
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Hello! Founder of Glide FTA.
         | 
         | Yes, many of our customers hit the issues you mentioned as they
         | scale spreadsheet-based applications. We built Big Tables for
         | this case: https://www.glideapps.com/big-tables
         | 
         | You keep most of the convenience and programmability of a
         | spreadsheet, but you get Postgres scale and a first-class API
         | (which includes atomic table swapping for updating large
         | datasets). It also supports live updating of any views
         | displaying that data.
        
           | causal wrote:
           | Thank you for also having Airtable support, which I vastly
           | prefer over Google Sheets for any kind of API work
        
       | bewal416 wrote:
       | We built an entire app for our golf league- all using Glide and
       | Google Sheets.
       | 
       | It was honestly a great experience- all the players had a great
       | mobile experience with obvious forms and leaderboards, while the
       | storage and compute was hidden inside the Google Sheet. The
       | pricing was pretty reasonable- considering we could split the
       | bill among us all, and we only needed it for about 4 months.
       | 
       | There's still hope for good, quality SaaS! However, I hope Glide
       | (or another) can figure out the pricing for the hobbyist tier.
        
       | ijidak wrote:
       | I'm looking for a no code platform that I can use for my
       | customers and charge a subscription for access.
       | 
       | Most of these no-code solutions target internal company
       | Intranets.
       | 
       | But, I want to use them for apps I can sell to customers.
       | 
       | Does anyone have recommendations?
        
         | BOOSTERHIDROGEN wrote:
         | I am also interested in this.
        
         | mrbluecoat wrote:
         | As mentioned by another poster, check out "Partner portals"
         | section on https://retool.com/
        
       | ShaggyHotDog wrote:
       | Google sheet on mobile is pain. Good idea on how this becomes
       | usable. Will try it.
        
       | santa_boy wrote:
       | Glide is cool ... I wish there were FOSS versions of Glide to
       | spin up nice, neat and simple mobile apps.
       | 
       | There are now quite a few reliable FOSS version of no-code tools
       | (but the mobile space seems to be missing alternatives). Few nice
       | no-code FOSS that I love using are listed at
       | https://blog.n0c0de.com/articles/1635ef6f-f616-8023-b336-ff3...
        
         | mrbluecoat wrote:
         | This is great, thanks for sharing!
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
       | zuhayeer wrote:
       | Love this, big fan of Glide. We've used Google Sheets for a long
       | time to power Levels.fyi and allowed us to move fast without too
       | much of a formal backend. Check out our post here:
       | https://www.levels.fyi/blog/scaling-to-millions-with-google-...
        
       | ryanmarsh wrote:
       | I really like the part where the article was phone friendly.
       | 
       | Seriously how does anyone make money with a website where the
       | actual content is so obscured by ads that users don't bother
       | coming back?
        
       | shahzaibmushtaq wrote:
       | I haven't used online spreadsheets as databases and I guess they
       | are good for prototyping, rapid application development and in-
       | house testing.
        
       | epolanski wrote:
       | OT but I convinced several of my clients to use Excel and
       | SharePoint they already had in their bundle over writing a full
       | blown app multiple times, added some automation and it was both
       | cheaper and made them happier.
        
       | rashidae wrote:
       | During COVID, I built a quick no-code solution to help 'all-
       | inclusive resorts' in Cancun and Punta Cana. It started with
       | guests scanning a QR code, filling out a short form, and
       | scheduling their Antigen/PCR tests. Over time, it evolved to help
       | nurses manage operations, streamline test results, and send
       | certificates via email.
       | 
       | What began as a DIY project during lockdown scaled quickly to
       | Mexico City, the Dominican Republic, and Barcelona, processing
       | over 30,000 tests the day after New Year's Eve. Using Airtable,
       | an Airtable extension called miniextensions.com, and tools like
       | Docusign, Make, Sendgrid, and Twilio, the solution ended up
       | supporting over 1 million tests. I handled all technical aspects,
       | support, and training myself.
       | 
       | Since the solution was meant to be temporary, I prioritized speed
       | and reliability. Airtable's relational database capabilities were
       | crucial, especially compared to spreadsheets, for managing
       | multiple linked tables and automations. Airtable also offers a
       | REST API and a pretty amazing self- actualizing database schema
       | that can be copied into tools like GPT or Claude for added
       | context. You can build powerful tools with its scripts,
       | interfaces, and automations.
       | 
       | That said, Airtable is best for use cases with fewer than 250,000
       | records per month. Above 100,000 records, the web platform's
       | performance can suffer, though there are workarounds. It's
       | perfect for small to medium-sized businesses needing custom API
       | integrations for CRMs or internal tools.
       | 
       | If you're interested, I wrote a brief case study about the
       | project here: https://rashidazarang.com/covid-testing.
       | 
       | On a related note, today I built a cool Airtable automation using
       | ChatGPT and custom scripts. By filling out a corporate email in a
       | form, the system scrapes the web for details like company name,
       | address, phone, fax, and more, which then populates the CRM
       | automatically. I'm still experimenting and plan to make a YouTube
       | video about it soon. Here's the loom video I sent to a friend
       | about it:
       | https://www.loom.com/share/b9ddbefbdce5434da378667fc2079d00?...
        
         | panosfilianos wrote:
         | woah!
         | 
         | didn't even know you can embed videos on HN!
        
           | starquake wrote:
           | I think your browser is doing some embedding cause I don't
           | see an embedded video...
        
         | mattfrommars wrote:
         | This is great and I look forward to your YouTube video. It is
         | intriguing to me since you went you choose existing tool and
         | piped the entire workflow vs to build the entire thing from
         | scratch in Python, for example.
         | 
         | In the demo Loom video, the part where you are scheduling an
         | appointment, it looks very calendly like but it is not. Did you
         | build the entire UI and UX yourself?
        
         | causal wrote:
         | +1 for Airtable API. Way ahead of Google Sheets IMO.
        
         | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
         | This is very impressive considering the real-world complexities
         | surrounding it, but you've taken that complexity and turned it
         | into a fairly simple work-flow with minimal coding. I've been
         | developing software professionally for nearly 20 years and I
         | find these kinds of projects to be fascinating. I started out
         | my career with a mixture of coding and non-coding
         | "integrations" (hacks) with other software. Over the years I've
         | fallen in the typical "how can I build this from scratch" trap,
         | but in many cases - as you've proven - that's not always the
         | best decision. Kudos and thanks for sharing!
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | > ... the day after New Year's Eve.
         | 
         | OT nitpick, but isn't this "New Year's Day?" Or did you mean
         | January 2nd?
        
       | ozim wrote:
       | _app-based delivery services like DoorDash and Uber Eats were not
       | the best way to support local businesses_
       | 
       | Unfortunately I got pissed off badly because I found out that
       | ordering directly I was treated like a second class customer -
       | where I expected the opposite.
       | 
       | If I order directly they know I will not leave negative reviews.
       | 
       | I really wanted to pay directly for the same service. I wasn't
       | expecting to get better service and definitely I wasn't expecting
       | being treated like dirt.
       | 
       | So sorry but I will keep using app ordering services because I
       | simply get better quality of food and better delivery times.
        
       | dools wrote:
       | I used google sheets but wouldn't go past big query or firebase
       | these days. You can have connected sheets that read straight from
       | big query and probably firebase too, and they're so much better
       | and faster and have fewer quirks than sheets
        
       | d--b wrote:
       | Is that an ad? It definitely sounds like one.
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | Definitely an ad.
        
         | Too wrote:
         | Either that, or the author has a really odd fixation that
         | warrants spending $69/month, just to share a list of nearby
         | restaurants with his wife?
        
           | switch007 wrote:
           | That's definitely it !
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Founder of Glide (YC W19) here. This article surprised us and
         | is not paid.
        
       | tym83 wrote:
       | Tried to use Glide a few years ago and couldn't understand why it
       | is needed anyway in real life? It seems like toy for startup-
       | guys, not for real MVP's or something valuable.
       | 
       | I like Google Sheets and Google Docs but this app is so strange.
       | Maybe it's ok for small "homemade" projects for neighbourhoods or
       | local businesses like flower salon or fitness club. But why it is
       | needed for these type of business if we have social media,
       | messengers, WPA and adaptive layouts on websites.
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | We've made a lot of progress in a few years! Check again?
        
       | lwhi wrote:
       | This is giving me flashbacks to the days when MS Access (and
       | later on Visual Basic) ruled this segment of the market.
       | 
       | It's interesting to think there's still a market for this type of
       | small scale enthusiast application.
       | 
       | One scenarios I've been thinking about recently is the death of
       | the generic app.
       | 
       | If LLMs end up being able to create software easily, why wouldn't
       | we choose to have software that's totally aligned our specific
       | needs?
        
         | ajcp wrote:
         | Not just totally aligned, but also "just-in-time" and
         | ephemeral: an LLM goes and does/builds it on request, and then
         | destroys all artifacts when the request has been fulfilled?
         | 
         | If the persistence of something incurs a cost in storage and
         | security, and the traditional penalties of efficiency and
         | learning-curves are removed, why not recreate it every time its
         | needed?
        
       | Raed667 wrote:
       | I wanted to use Google Sheets for an internal corporate app, but
       | authentication/authorization is a pain, I got it to work but it
       | would have probably been faster to just have some CRUD SQLITE
       | somewhere.
        
         | dvdsgl wrote:
         | Glide (from the article) adds simple pin-based auth and access
         | control on top of the spreadsheet data. There's also user and
         | role-based data protection.
        
       | anoncow wrote:
       | Looks like a wonderful New Years Eve project
        
       | animal531 wrote:
       | I used to work on some really complicated old code for a long
       | term incentive management company where each client had a ton of
       | their own rules, but once those were set up they would be running
       | fine for 3 or 5 year cycles without any issues. The difficult
       | part was to fit their requirements and rules into our code.
       | 
       | At some point I started working on a new version that would just
       | run with a spreadsheet as the frontend where the business analyst
       | could add whatever rules and calculation fields they wanted,
       | which would then link to some input of users, share values,
       | periods etc.
       | 
       | It was going quite well and seemed extremely viable but
       | unfortunately the business died due to some other issues along
       | with Covid before the software saw the light of day.
        
       | dvdsgl wrote:
       | Founder of Glide (YC W19) mentioned in the article -- thanks for
       | the recognition. This was not an ad from us, we were surprised by
       | the coverage.
       | 
       | Glide's customers are businesses building software for internal
       | use. During YC we called these "dark apps" but since then we call
       | them "apps for work." We wanted something usable by IT and
       | operations staff (not developers) that emphasized design and UX.
       | 
       | Glide started as a simple spreadsheet-to-PWA trick but is now a
       | complete programming model and runtime platform for data-driven
       | business apps, including APIs, databases, responsive layouts, a
       | managed AI system, and workflow automations.
       | 
       | One of our Crown Jewels is our data editor, where you program
       | your app with our reactive computed columns. Our data grid has
       | become a popular open source component:
       | https://grid.glideapps.com/
       | 
       | You can also try our new AI-native builder experience, where
       | we're trying to simplify building even further. It's very early
       | but just shows our continued effort to make building software
       | simpler: https://glideapps.com/create
       | 
       | Thanks again!
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | I remember when you launched your product on HN:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19163081
         | 
         | I favorited it back then. Glad to see it's doing well, it looks
         | like a cool product. I haven't found a reason to use it yet but
         | that's also because I have slowed down on coding personal
         | projects after work in general.
        
           | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
           | Glide was cool when it launched but they never made that
           | product work. Right now they have moved to an agency model
           | and that is their product.
        
             | dvdsgl wrote:
             | This is not true. We don't build apps for customers,
             | although there are Glide agencies that we match customers
             | with. We've learned that some businesses prefer to pay for
             | someone else to build for them no matter the platform, so
             | we're happy to facilitate that given our agency ecosystem.
        
         | rashidae wrote:
         | I haven't used Glide yet, but I've worked extensively with
         | other 'front-end interfaces for Airtable and Spreadsheets',
         | like Softr, Noloco and Bubble.
         | 
         | The first time I tried Glide, I struggled with the interface,
         | and unfortunately, support didn't respond to my messages, so I
         | had to take a different direction.
         | 
         | That said, I'd love to give Glide a try. It's incredible that
         | we have direct access to founders like you here on HN.
         | 
         | Congrats on your success! From your perspective, where do you
         | see no-code and low-code heading, especially with AI
         | dramatically lowering the barriers to coding?
        
           | dvdsgl wrote:
           | Thank you! Please let me know how your second attempt goes.
           | 
           | AI and no code platforms will merge into new high-level
           | software creation tools. We already view Glide as a hybrid--
           | try our AI component for the bottoms-up view. Our top-down AI
           | approach will soon be live in our onboarding.
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | I know a few people who started to use glide for personal apps
         | and were put off by the price. ($200/mo for over 3 personal
         | apps is a bit tough).
         | 
         | They showed me what they were doing and that was absolutely
         | incredible for people without programming experience. They
         | integrated with spreadsheets and llms and their PDF collections
         | of manuals for devices etc.
         | 
         | But as lower-income people they were stopped in their tracks
         | and I found that really sad that there isn't an option for non
         | money-making or business supporting applications. In their case
         | they were all doing that for their hobbies or for supporting
         | their aging parents and giving them tools to handle their
         | tasks, chores and care.
        
           | drewbeck wrote:
           | I've had the same experience. I really want something of this
           | quality that is accessible to hobbyists or folks managing non
           | revenue generating things -- any kind of social organization
           | could really benefit!
        
           | deweywsu wrote:
           | I second this. I'm guessing you're limiting access at a lower
           | price point because you're worried too many business
           | customers will opt for the lower cost plan when they should
           | be on the higher priced one? I would pay somewhere in the
           | neighborhood of $10/mo or so for a personal plan that had
           | more than your free tier and less than the business one.
        
             | dvdsgl wrote:
             | Yes, I'm also sad we couldn't find a way to be affordable
             | for everyone while also growing our business. We've learned
             | that the personal/community app 'market' is impossible to
             | grow upon, and that pricing for this group undercuts your
             | pricing power with businesses.
        
       | donohoe wrote:
       | Its been real easy to build small and large web apps for news
       | organization on Google Sheets. Most recently we built an "AI
       | Election Tracker" for 2024 elections across the globe
       | 
       | https://restofworld.org/2024/elections-ai-tracker/
       | 
       | GS is not the best editorial interface but its not bad either,
       | especially when it allows you to get things done quickly.
       | 
       | Likewise, this was another fun project (since retired) that sits
       | on Google Sheets:
       | 
       | https://restofworld.org/stat-of-the-day/
       | 
       | We skip Google's API which I really dislike. The sheets are set
       | to publish to the web and you can use that to pull down the data
       | and parse it into JSON files.
       | 
       | It take less than a minute to set the basics up now.
        
         | yx827ha wrote:
         | Why does the site hijack the back button!? It wouldn't let me
         | get back to hn.
        
       | sylware wrote:
       | Since now google mail is blocking email addresses with ipv4 and
       | ipv6 literals, I moved to a self hosted messaging site to
       | interact with google mail prisoners.
        
       | smileybarry wrote:
       | This looks great, but I got a bit of sticker shock when I saw
       | Glide's plan to do this is _$69 per month_ cost (billed yearly).
       | There 's a free tier, but with a 1-app limit and only Big Tables
       | (no Google Sheets). I'd be fine with paying for personal apps,
       | but $69/month feels a bit... steep.
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | It's a tool targeted at businesses. The article writer just
         | found a use case that works for them personally.
        
       | caseyy wrote:
       | The idea is neat but holy SaaS, the price for what it offers is
       | ridiculous. It's not even about having the money, it's just that
       | $828 p.a. price of entry to build a spreadsheet front-end is
       | objectively a bad buy/business decision.
       | 
       | Most people would just learn to code at a boot camp for $828 so
       | they don't need codeless.
        
         | drewbeck wrote:
         | You and I have a very different idea of "most people"
        
         | blizkreeg wrote:
         | This comment reminds me of the infamous Dropbox comment :)
        
           | caseyy wrote:
           | Touche, but let's see...
        
       | pluto_modadic wrote:
       | ah, native advertising
        
       | dhruvarora013 wrote:
       | For my workplace, I built an internal orgchart and the backend is
       | entirely Google Sheets. It's been completely hassle free and I've
       | spent almost no time on the code since building it three years
       | ago. As employees join and leave, HR adds/deletes a row in the
       | sheet and only they have access to the "database" besides myself.
       | In case of accidental deletion, there's the handy restore ability
       | built into sheets so a database "rollback" is also trivial and
       | can be done by HR without my input.
       | 
       | Sheets as a database for light web apps is absolutely joyful to
       | build with.
        
       | dr_kretyn wrote:
       | From a similar need I built the HomeHero app
       | (https://homehero.pro) which helps maintain house inventory and
       | now turning general (projects) inventory.
        
       | j45 wrote:
       | A great example where customers don't care as much what you code
       | in especially for B2C.
       | 
       | Is it a solution that works or is helpful is more of a bar.
        
       | jayd16 wrote:
       | You can easily add some user input with Forms and with some setup
       | you can get SSO and require Google auth to the Forms and Sheets.
       | You can also throw up some async jobs in Google Cloud Run
       | functions.
       | 
       | I automated some IT processes this way. These were tasks that
       | were already a bit manual (like on/off boarding hires) and needed
       | flexible workflows but would be helped with automation.
       | 
       | When the scale is small it can be a nice little toolbox.
        
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