[HN Gopher] After 30 years, FDA overhauls guideline for the clai...
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       After 30 years, FDA overhauls guideline for the claim "healthy" on
       food packages
        
       Author : Jimmc414
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2024-12-30 14:50 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | soared wrote:
       | > Avocados, nuts and seeds are among products that will now
       | qualify to use the "healthy" claim. Avocado, salmon and water are
       | among the foods that will qualify for a "healthy" claim on food
       | packaging.
       | 
       | Yeah maybe there are some issues with government efficiency if it
       | took 30 years for foods like this to be able to brand themselves
       | healthy whereas white bread could false advertise with FDA
       | approval.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | Yep. It is a huge and corrupt bureaucracy. This should have
         | taken literally a day's worth of work. Even the time from when
         | they proposed the rule change to now is over 2 years!
        
           | icegreentea2 wrote:
           | I think this should have moved faster, but there's no way
           | this is a single days work.
           | 
           | Especially since a large part of the required work is meta
           | work to show that they worked "properly".
           | 
           | There are executive orders (and maybe laws? can't remember)
           | that require all rule making to be subject to thorough cost
           | benefit analysis.
           | 
           | One of the required actions between a proposed and final rule
           | is to review, reply to, and perhaps amend rules based on
           | comments. The final report indicates 400 comments, and
           | includes responses to basically all of them.
        
             | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
             | All of that is evidence of the ineffectiveness of
             | government bureaucracies. You're describing the way things
             | work today. I'm saying the way it works is broken and needs
             | to change. Allowing claims that salmon or water is healthy
             | shouldn't take long.
        
               | BadHumans wrote:
               | Salmon can be accumulators of plastics and heavy metals.
               | It is not as simple was labeling things as healthy or not
               | healthy.
        
               | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
               | Salmon is healthy and it is that simple. You're bringing
               | up unproductive questions that could go on forever about
               | any food. If that's the goal, we don't need the
               | bureaucracy. It's the same outcome as shutting down this
               | part of the agency, since they aren't going to declare
               | anything until decades after the world already moved on
               | from their broken guidance and figured out that salmon or
               | whatever else is healthy. No one serious questions that
               | salmon is healthy, obviously. So let's at least save the
               | money.
        
               | tayo42 wrote:
               | Disagree that these are unproductive questions.
               | 
               | For tuna it's recommended you don't eat it frequently
               | becasue of high mercury levels.
               | 
               | Why would not consider that for things like salmon?
        
               | maerF0x0 wrote:
               | And there's the wild vs farmed issue. And then it matters
               | which waters they're in, and feed their given etc.
        
               | icegreentea2 wrote:
               | I agree that it should go faster.
               | 
               | Unfortunately government bureaucracies basically operate
               | in low trust mode because of accumulated scar tissue from
               | previous problems.
               | 
               | Ripping out guard rails without building a high trust
               | environment is asking for a speed run of all of the scar
               | tissue to reform.
               | 
               | The fact that you characterized a slow process as
               | corrupt, when a huge amount of the slowness is because of
               | mandated rules put in place to attempt to mitigate
               | corruption is in itself a sign of the low trust hell that
               | these regulators live in.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > Allowing claims that salmon or water is healthy
               | shouldn't take long.
               | 
               | Seems suss. The root word of Salmonella is Salmon;
               | clearly it may not be healthy.
               | 
               | Water is just a rebranding of dihydrogen monixide, and we
               | all know how bad that stuff is. It's made from rocket
               | fuel, and you're trying to push it off as healthy?
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | _The root word of Salmonella is Salmon; clearly it may
               | not be healthy._
               | 
               | If you're digging up Dr. Salmon, after whom Salmonella is
               | named, and consuming his corpse...yeah, that might be a
               | bad idea.
        
               | otterley wrote:
               | The speed (or lack thereof) at which our administrative
               | agencies make rules is a reflection of the speed (or lack
               | thereof) at which our democracy reaches consensus on
               | change. What you're seeing isn't so much inefficiency,
               | but rather how process works in a democracy. It's slow
               | because Congress made it slow.
               | 
               | If we lived in a dictatorship, things would go faster,
               | public be damned. China gets things done, but at great
               | expense to the impacted people.
        
           | nxobject wrote:
           | Either sadly or reassuringly, the same rulemaking making
           | processes apply to both contentious things and relatively
           | uncontroversial ideas like these. (Actually, this is an
           | oversimplification, I think ED "Dear Colleague" letters don't
           | go through the full battery of established processes.)
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | The biggest impediment to government efficiency is lobbying and
         | propaganda by various special interests that do not have the
         | public good in mind. Imagine how much would get done without
         | those things.
        
       | hughrlomas wrote:
       | FDA link: https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-
       | critica...
        
       | Eumenes wrote:
       | Okay, now apply those guidelines to vulnerable members of society
       | who purchase groceries via EBT/food stamps. I don't think soda,
       | ultra processed foods, or candy would count?
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | I don't think the healthy aspect affects eligibility food
         | stamps. As I recall soda makes up 10% or more of all food stamp
         | spending and the manufacturing have repeatedly successfully
         | lobbied to keep sodas on there.
        
           | HappySweeney wrote:
           | That is because soda is used as a medium to convert the
           | balance to cash.
        
             | potato3732842 wrote:
             | Usually at $.50 on the dollar (same as the going rate for
             | letting someone else use your EBT/SNAP but way more
             | convenient).
        
       | aoppaol wrote:
       | Related article about how the FDA has not formally reevaluated
       | the safety of Red 40 in over a decade:
       | 
       | https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/what-is-red-dye-40-effects/
        
       | wgjordan wrote:
       | From the FDA page [1]:
       | 
       | > To meet the updated criteria for the claim, a food product
       | needs to:
       | 
       | > 1. contain a certain amount of food from at least one of the
       | food groups or subgroups (such as fruit, vegetables, grains, fat-
       | free and low-fat dairy and protein foods) recommended by the
       | Dietary Guidelines for Americans, and
       | 
       | > 2. meet specific limits for added sugars, saturated fat and
       | sodium.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-
       | critica...
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | > _recommended by the Dietary Guidelines for Americans_
         | 
         | Don't we now know with 100% certainty the sugar lobby in
         | America seriously manipulated the dietary guidelines?
        
           | bsuvc wrote:
           | Do you mean corn?
           | 
           | Most American food has High Fructose Corn Syrup instead of
           | Sugar.
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | It's still sugar, and the reason it's bad is because it's
             | sugar rather than the exact composition.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | I think they're saying it is the corn lobby, not the
               | sugar lobby, that distorted our diet guidelines so much.
               | 
               | Corn = huge "real American" industry
               | 
               | Sugar = not
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Corn _is_ the US sugar lobby.
               | 
               | Pretending they are different things is mostly just
               | marketing at this point.
        
               | llamaimperative wrote:
               | "I hate what the sugar lobby has done to our country but
               | damnit I'll come out swinging against anyone coming after
               | our corn farmers' subsidies!"
               | 
               | - a reasonable misunderstanding to have when people speak
               | the way you're suggesting
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | Saying it's really the corn lobby is fine, but "corn
               | syrup instead of sugar" is not the right way to describe
               | things.
        
       | npalli wrote:
       | The biggest changes seem (at least from the quiz) is to _not_
       | automatically label high-fat food as unhealthy and
       | correspondingly label high sugar foods as probably not healthy.
       | Good changes.
        
       | ruffrey wrote:
       | If you look at the table and do the math to convert obfuscated
       | units, a 3/4 ounce serving of "whole grains" may have 5g of added
       | sugar, which is 5/21.26 g or 23.5% added sugar.
       | 
       | This seems like an obvious problem to me. Despite some progress
       | with adding nuts and salmon.
        
       | boh wrote:
       | Unfortunately the FDA has limited resource to actually police
       | most of their existing guidelines and will have just as much
       | trouble policing this one.
       | 
       | Buy and cook raw ingredients as often as you can because the only
       | way packaged foods make a profit is either to lower costs or
       | increase prices, and neither option is to your benefit.
        
         | kbelder wrote:
         | You forgot 'sell more'.
        
           | boh wrote:
           | Food is pretty low margin--selling more is often less
           | lucrative than costing less, since selling more often costs
           | more in marketing costs, hampering profitability.
        
         | Jimmc414 wrote:
         | The FDA gets 7.2 Billion dollars per year. The problem is
         | probably that 3.3 Billion of that is paid by "User fees" which
         | have effectively become a vehicle for industry lobbyists
         | 
         | https://www.fda.gov/media/166050/download
        
       | robomartin wrote:
       | I could be wrong on this, yet my impression is that the
       | bureaucrats, given RFK's intentions, are in fear for their jobs
       | and are looking to mitigate exposure by, well, actually starting
       | to do their jobs.
       | 
       | The damage cause to society by a vast array of foods is likely
       | the top contributor to not only disease-caused mortality but the
       | massive cost of providing healthcare. The appointment of someone
       | like RFK, with a mission to push for a healthy food supply makes
       | me hopeful that we will find a path to better results.
       | 
       | On a personal level, after recognizing the terrible effects of
       | bad food, I set out on a mission to change. I was type 2 diabetic
       | and was also taking medication for hypertension. I changed my
       | diet. Actively avoided everything outside what I call "basic"
       | foods. I also added long term (7 to 14 day) fasting to help me
       | push me over to the other side. It took a few months and effort.
       | Today I am no-longer taking any medication and my blood tests
       | come back with positive marks across the board. No more diabetes
       | or hypertension.
       | 
       | Before someone suggests some of the changes had to do with
       | exercise, well, no, that was not the case. I was determined to
       | understand this issue of proper nutrition. So, I stopped all
       | exercise for several months in order to isolate effects. I only
       | started walking a couple of miles per day once I was off all
       | medications. I achieved this result sitting in front of my
       | computer coding and working, with the only change being dietary.
       | 
       | How many people out there have broken bodies and never-ending
       | medical needs simply because they are eating horrible food? Well,
       | if we are talking about diabetes --a metabolic disease-- the
       | number is well over 35 million, with over a million people
       | diagnosed every year and over 5000 children as well:
       | 
       | https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/about/about-type-2-diabetes.htm...
       | 
       | And for the vast majority of cases, you can eliminate and reverse
       | this with food.
       | 
       | Look at the list of complications introduced by type 2 diabetes:
       | - Heart and blood vessel disease       - Nerve damage in limbs
       | - Other nerve damage (heart, digestive system, etc.)       -
       | Kidney disease       - Eye damage       - Skin conditions       -
       | Slow healing       - Hearing damage       - Sleep apnea       -
       | Dementia
       | 
       | https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/type-2-diabet...
       | 
       | And that's just one of the diseases with nutrition as a root
       | cause.
       | 
       | So, yeah, healthy food is important. The FDA needs to get a
       | handle on this.
        
         | icegreentea2 wrote:
         | It's possible that the RFK thing is driving some urgency, but
         | the timeline is broadly in line with their stated goals from
         | their 2016 to 2025 strategic plan. They started this whole
         | process with public consultation in 2017, and released the
         | proposed plan back in 2022.
        
           | brookst wrote:
           | Agreed. If this was some "pandering to the new boss" thing
           | they would have fast tracked approvals for eating roadkill.
        
           | robomartin wrote:
           | A change in urgency is good. The issues with our food have
           | been known for quite some time. Given the carnage and damage
           | to health at a massive scale, taking seven years to start
           | acting is irresponsible. This isn't new knowledge at all.
           | 
           | An airplane crashes and it becomes top news for days. Five
           | thousand children and a million people per year are diagnosed
           | with a diet-induced disease with horrible consequences and
           | the media pays no attention to the issue at all.
           | 
           | The death and destruction caused by the global metabolic
           | disease pandemic should make everyone take pause:
           | 
           | https://www.cell.com/cell-
           | metabolism/pdf/S1550-4131(23)00039...
           | 
           | For context, COVID is estimated to have killed approximately
           | 7 million people world-wide. Metabolic disease is killing
           | over TEN MILLION every year and has been killing over 8
           | million per year for the last 20 years. And I am just quoting
           | data from the Cell Metabolism Journal publication, which only
           | covers 20 years. The destruction goes back decades beyond
           | that.
           | 
           | In other words, this has been a real "clear and present
           | danger" case for decades. This is precisely why these
           | agencies need to be shake-up to the core. What have they been
           | doing for the last 20 or 30 years?
        
         | llamaimperative wrote:
         | Never before has someone thought to take on the US food
         | industry! I'm sure they'll just bend over and take it this
         | time, and I'm sure their Congressional defenders from the
         | heartland will totally let them this time because... reasons.
         | Lol.
        
       | tayo42 wrote:
       | Isnt farmed salmon pretty iffy on healthy? I read something that
       | basically made me stop eating farmed salmon.
       | 
       | There seems to be a handful of farms near maybe Norway that the
       | high end grocery stores carry that claim to be different but
       | couldn't verify.
       | 
       | They use like food coloring to make up for their unnatural farm
       | diet.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | The FDA guidelines only look at macronutrients. There a lot of
         | "unhealthy" things that would be considered "healthy" by both
         | the old and new standards.
        
       | maerF0x0 wrote:
       | I'd wager it would have quite a bit more impact if all other
       | foods had to put something like "Unhealthy!" on the nutrition
       | info panel. Even better they could help break down the binary
       | thinking and battles over single words and double down on
       | something like nutrient density (quick hit from google:
       | https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/13_0390.htm )
        
         | djsavvy wrote:
         | I'm not quite sure about that -- a lot of other countries have
         | those sort of warning labels on foods or a comparison of the
         | nutrition facts with healthier foods, and I'm not sure how much
         | of an impact that label would end up having. I think it would
         | be like the prop 65 stickers in California -- it ends up
         | becoming so ubiquitous it's effectively meaningless. I got a
         | new espresso maker with a prop 65 label on it but am just
         | ignoring it since I doubt it's actually leaching lead into my
         | coffee despite the label saying it will.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | I'm not sure what the relevant law is but a lot of packaged
           | foods here (Germany) have nutrition scores A-E displayed
           | prominently on the front corner. Apparently it's relative to
           | a category, so they don't end up with E on all frozen pizzas
           | and A on all frozen veggies, but can actually be used to see
           | which frozen pizza is healthier.
        
       | Jimmc414 wrote:
       | One tangentially related example is Tic Tacs, which contain 94.5%
       | sugar[0] but can legally advertise as "0 sugar" because the
       | serving size is less than 0.5 grams under FDA labeling rules.[1]
       | [2]
       | 
       | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tic_Tac
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFR...
       | 
       | [2] https://i.imgur.com/9p6dMgD.jpg
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | i believe the ingredients list is ordered by amount of
         | ingredient, so it's a quick scan to see if sugar (of whatever
         | sort) is an added ingredient, despite the nonsense of numerical
         | truncation being allowed in grams.
        
       | J_Shelby_J wrote:
       | All I want is a pie chart showing percent of calories from
       | macros.
       | 
       | 10% fat, 50% protein, 40% carbs.
        
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