[HN Gopher] Dungeons and Dragons rolls the dice with new rules a...
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       Dungeons and Dragons rolls the dice with new rules about identity
        
       Author : jordanpg
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2024-12-30 14:16 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | jprd wrote:
       | https://archive.md/z2q8s
        
       | turtleyacht wrote:
       | Does anyone play a human constantly holding a torch?
       | 
       | Usually everyone forgets until vision and sight matter (boss
       | fight, in a fog, or down to the wire).
        
         | ryoshu wrote:
         | Haven't seen it in a long time. Generally one or two characters
         | will cast a Light spell on something like a shield or holy
         | symbol. Dark vision/devil sight will cover the rest of the
         | party. Foundry has really nice lighting effects using shaders
         | for VTT play.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | Yep. So many races/species have darkvision, and so many
           | people prefer playing non-humans, that it usually doesn't
           | matter, and a single Cleric will typically have Light
           | prepared anyway.
           | 
           | I should really start running more sessions in a dark place,
           | where stealth _matters_.
        
           | techwizrd wrote:
           | This is one of the changes I like the most about Shadowdark.
           | None of the players have darkvision, but all of the monsters
           | do. Combat is unpredictable and dangerous, and darkness is a
           | real threat. And Torches are finite resources that last 60m
           | of IRL time, so there is an in-game impact to dilly-dallying,
           | endless debates, and rules-lawyering.
        
         | valbaca wrote:
         | I'm playing a human warlock with a Genie patron...so yes, I
         | always have a lamp ha
        
       | mcphage wrote:
       | Wonderful piece--tons of interviews with people complaining about
       | the changes, yet no interviews with people in support. And yet
       | the authors mention (almost embarrassedly) that it's the fastest
       | selling title in WotC's history.
       | 
       | Clearly a lot of people like this change--and it's a great
       | change! Yet the authors didn't feel like talking to any of those
       | people, instead repeatedly coming back to Musk's whining. Great
       | journalism 10/10 no notes.
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | I would argue that likely the sales are despite this. Not
         | because of this. Could be there would be lot more sales if
         | these weren't in place. In general RPGs have gained lot more
         | popularity and visibility and thus are more popular. And DnD is
         | most well known system.
        
           | mmooss wrote:
           | > I would argue that likely the sales are despite this. Not
           | because of this.
           | 
           | Unless you have evidence, you could argue anything. The
           | evidence is that it's selling really well with these rules.
        
       | hooverd wrote:
       | > The company now suggests that extended Dungeons & Dragons
       | campaigns begin with a session in which players discuss their
       | expectations and list topics to avoid, which could include sexual
       | assault or drug use. Dungeon masters are encouraged to establish
       | a signal that allows players to articulate their distress with
       | any subject matter and automatically overrule the dungeon
       | master's own story line.
       | 
       | This got a lot of flak. But I can see why they did it. Many such
       | cases of DMs, especially the game store kind, using DnD as their
       | own sexual assault simulator. RPGHorrorStories has a lot.
        
         | caeril wrote:
         | > > which could include sexual assault or drug use
         | 
         | Wouldn't any potion, including potions of healing, be
         | considered "drug use"? Howabout excessive drinking by dwarves
         | at a tavern in the canonical DM party formation ritual?
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | In the western world, a potion of healing is more akin to
           | taking antibiotics, and imbibing alcohol has been agreed to
           | be just a Regular Thing People Do, not a drug thing.
           | 
           | And in any case, yeah! This is why you talk things out in a
           | session zero! If a player at a table is an alcoholic, they
           | might not _want_ to play in a campaign where other PCs
           | regularly binge-drink. It doesn 't necessarily mean the other
           | players aren't _allowed_ to do this, it might just mean that
           | this isn 't the right table for the player, or it might mean
           | that the DM has to scratch out "alcoholic" as a trait for an
           | NPC and replace it with something else.
        
             | nothercastle wrote:
             | If you need to go through a HR exercise at the beginning of
             | a game perhaps you need to find a different group of people
             | to play with.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | Why do you frame it as an "HR exercise" when it's just
               | the people who are about to play a game talking about
               | what they expect out of it?
               | 
               | And how would I find a group of people whose playstyle is
               | compatible with what I'm looking for without actually
               | talking to them?
        
               | danudey wrote:
               | > Why do you frame it as an "HR exercise" when it's just
               | the people who are about to play a game talking about
               | what they expect out of it?
               | 
               | Because they're so incapable of considering other
               | people's feelings that they think the only time anyone
               | ever does so is because someone cried to HR about
               | something and HR is making you sit through a meeting to
               | cover the company's ass legally, and not because anyone
               | actually cares about how they make other people feel.
        
               | zug_zug wrote:
               | So what if your dad died last month, and the DM decides
               | it'll be a cool twist for his BBEG to abduct your
               | character's dad gouge his eyes out and try to kill him?
               | 
               | It's good to be able to explain these things, and IMO a
               | lot of D&D players aren't comfortable being the first one
               | to say that stuff without an "HR" exercise to give them
               | permission.
        
               | ddingus wrote:
               | Well, if my dad had died, I would understand the DM has
               | no clue, until I say something.
               | 
               | If I say something and that scene plays out, things are
               | understandably ugly.
               | 
               | If I don't and find myself uncomfortable, that is on me
               | to manage, nobody else at the table.
               | 
               | How are these things so damn hard for people to
               | understand?
               | 
               | All that was true when I played years ago. People would
               | intro the game, have chat about stuff and then get into
               | it. I recall having tough conversations, and I recall
               | just being a good human to the other humans as a given.
               | 
               | I don't get the discussion today.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | I'm not sure which side you're arguing for, but I do
               | agree with what I _think_ I 'm reading - that you should
               | be able to tell the table what you are and aren't
               | comfortable with. And the new rules encourage that.
        
               | ddingus wrote:
               | You are reading it correctly. The before game meet n
               | greet was where everyone caught up with everyone else.
               | 
               | Maybe being pre cell phone has something to do with it
               | all.
               | 
               | Where and when I came from, the idea of having to do a
               | "might trigger" rundown did not need to happen because of
               | the dynamics I put into my prior comment.
               | 
               | How about this mess:
               | 
               | Say one chooses to not talk about a dead father confident
               | the game will play out fine. Basically omit the father in
               | the pre-game rundown of potential triggers.
               | 
               | Then the scene happens, and major trigger!
               | 
               | Now what?
               | 
               | Seems to me one falls back on the very basic rules above
               | and acts accordingly.
               | 
               | Nobody else would be blamed. How could they?
               | 
               | The result is the talk didn't solve anything, which us my
               | point and lack of understanding.
               | 
               | Another POV:
               | 
               | DM runs a scene that is a major trigger for someone.
               | Bummer.
               | 
               | Pause game, help that person, right? Take a bit and
               | figure it out? Do they want to end play? Is there
               | something any of us can do? Etc...
               | 
               | Blame and shame aren't the answers. Being a good human is
               | the answer.
               | 
               | Seems like someone is trying to write be a good human
               | rules. Ah well. They tried I guess.
        
               | rincebrain wrote:
               | The point, I think, is that a lot of people pathologize
               | "this is just a me problem" to the point that they don't
               | want to bring things up at all, particularly if it's not
               | someone they're very familiar with, because while some
               | people react reasonably to, for example, "please do not
               | include a graphic description of bugs crawling around, I
               | had a really bad experience once and it still bothers me
               | to think about", some people will also very deliberately
               | introduce things for that reason.
               | 
               | Or perhaps you say "I don't like it if X" when you really
               | meant "I am going to have a full blown trauma flashback
               | if you surprise me with X", and they think that you meant
               | what you said, and it's something they would do with all
               | the maliciousness of hanging a "boo!" sign on your front
               | door one day.
               | 
               | The goal is, I think, to recognize that a lot of people
               | are bad at being the first one to bring things up, as
               | well as a lot of people being bad at "reading the room",
               | and set up an explicit normal structure to reduce the
               | friction of doing so.
               | 
               | (Whether they succeeded or not is a different question,
               | but I think that was the goal - to try and make it feel
               | more normal and part of the structure and expectations,
               | and thus have lower friction to bring things up a priori
               | and in the moment, rather than people feeling like "I'm
               | the problem" if there's no explicit moment for it and
               | they have to ask.)
               | 
               | Yes, you can't make people be good people, but you can
               | try to provide tools to make it feel more like the normal
               | part of setting up and running your game to leave
               | explicit room for them to say something. More or less the
               | difference between saying "you can call us after filling
               | out the paperwork and have us add manual edits to what
               | you filled out" and "you can just include a form 412 and
               | check the boxes for which things apply, and fill out an
               | other box at the bottom if it's not covered".
        
               | MadcapJake wrote:
               | Let's look at another media: movies. Do you ever look at
               | reviews or the advisory notices to see if a movie will be
               | appropriate for someone you're watching it with? This is
               | the exact same thing but since the story hasn't been
               | written yet, you need to agree with all the story tellers
               | (DM and players) what your story rating will be.
               | 
               | Do you skip this step when it's your closest pals who can
               | handle a gory mature story? sure!
               | 
               | Is it good to have a system for others to use or in
               | public settings? Definitely.
        
               | danudey wrote:
               | Hypothetical situation: someone had an abusive alcoholic
               | father, and discussion of drinking and alcohol brings up
               | a lot of unwanted feelings, including anxiety, unpleasant
               | memories resurfacing, etc.
               | 
               | You're suggesting that the person in that scenario should
               | either suffer those feelings in silence or should just
               | keep trying new groups until they find one that just
               | coincidentally doesn't bring up those topics?
               | 
               | Or someone who was sexually assaulted should keep that to
               | themselves, and if discussion of the topic comes up in
               | the game and makes them uncomfortable they should just
               | leave and go find a new group without telling anyone why?
               | 
               | Are you suggesting that you could just say "hey, these
               | are things that bother me so I'd rather not be part of
               | the game if these topics are going to come up", and
               | either the DM can exclude those topics, or they can
               | refuse and the player can go somewhere else? Because
               | that's _exactly what is being discussed_.
               | 
               | Lay out your ground rules. If there's no way to
               | reconcile, go elsewhere, but it saves people getting
               | blindsided halfway through the game and then having to
               | deal with it while surrounded by other people and
               | potentially feeling very vulnerable.
        
         | ghusto wrote:
         | So don't play with those ones?
         | 
         | This is why these types of initiatives do far more harm than
         | good. They hide problems rather than address them.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | > _This is why these types of initiatives do far more harm
           | than good. They hide problems rather than address them._
           | 
           | How do these initiatives hide these problems?
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | But this "initiative" suggests addressing the problems
           | through dialogue.
           | 
           | D&D is supposed to be a collaborative effort, "My way or the
           | highway" isn't how a table should be run.
        
           | hooverd wrote:
           | Those people typically don't tell you ahead of time. I
           | wouldn't do this with my close friend group either, we know
           | each other. I think we can all agree on "hey this is touchy
           | for me could we please not" and it works as a filter for
           | people who get upset about it.
        
           | zug_zug wrote:
           | Presumably you've had different experiences, but from my
           | personal D&D experience I've had zero people who abused the
           | "distress signaling" and seen multiple cases where people
           | were a bit uncomfortable and didn't really say anything other
           | than snarky jokes (e.g. a player's backstory culminates in
           | them graphically torturing an NPC to death while everybody
           | else at the table is weirded out).
           | 
           | "Don't play with them" strikes me as impractical advice
           | compared to communicating. If you're 6 months into a campaign
           | as opposed to establishing a protocol to be able to say "hey
           | this is kinda much for me, could we take the gruesome details
           | of this offline?"
           | 
           | Communicating a tone for the setting early would have also
           | helped.
        
         | stormfather wrote:
         | I see why it gets a lot of flak too. People are becoming
         | increasingly neurotic and fragile, and coupled with that we are
         | increasingly unable to fluidly deal with differences this
         | creates as they arise. We're talking about playing a boardgame
         | with friends, do we really need to have a trigger-warning
         | session? And when does that end? Every time I hang out with my
         | friends should we update our daily list of no-no words first?
        
           | hooverd wrote:
           | If you're playing with close friends, you probably wouldn't
           | railroad things to their character that would damage your
           | friendship. If you know your friend is touchy about something
           | traumatic do you rib them about it?
        
           | c22 wrote:
           | You can use whatever rules you like with your friends. When I
           | play Monopoly with my friends we like to put fees and fines
           | on "Free Parking," then if you land there you can take the
           | money. We all agreed it's more fun this way.
        
             | valbaca wrote:
             | > When I play Monopoly with my friends we like to put fees
             | and fines on "Free Parking," then if you land there you can
             | take the money. We all agreed it's more fun this way.
             | 
             | Listen, your game, your rules 100%
             | 
             | But I will say, the Free Parking house rule is why most
             | games of Monopoly take so freaking long. (And if you're
             | fine with that, then that's fine too!). The fees and fines
             | are _meant_ to take money out of the player 's pockets and
             | drive them closer to bankruptcy so the dang game CAN end.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, it's a game that just feels bad. You either
             | play as-is and it feels bad to go broke. or you house-rule
             | and the money keeps circulating until someone builds all
             | Hotels and completely obliterates someone when they land on
             | the third and fourth-edge properties
        
               | nemo44x wrote:
               | But it's just so much fun you never want it to end!
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | > _People are becoming increasingly neurotic and fragile, and
           | coupled with that we are increasingly unable to fluidly deal
           | with differences this creates as they arise._
           | 
           | Another way to interpret this would be that people are
           | becoming increasingly comfortable with telling people they're
           | not comfortable with something, and leaving when others at
           | the table are refusing to take the feelings of others into
           | consideration.
           | 
           | > _We 're talking about playing a boardgame with friends, do
           | we really need to have a trigger-warning session?_
           | 
           | D&D isn't always played with friends. Not that many of my
           | friends play D&D, or are interested in; most of the people
           | I've played with were strangers to me when we first began
           | playing.
           | 
           | > _Every time I hang out with my friends should we update our
           | daily list of no-no words first?_
           | 
           | You likely _have_ this list in your head already for your
           | friends; it 's not necessary to explicitly rehash it because
           | you've built a relationship with these people, and you know
           | not to brag about your awesome trip with your dad in front of
           | someone who's dad died last week.
           | 
           | But when you're meeting new people, you don't know what
           | they've gone through. That's why it's better to be explicit
           | at the start of this.
        
             | rayiner wrote:
             | > Another way to interpret this would be that people are
             | becoming increasingly comfortable with telling people
             | they're not comfortable with something, and leaving when
             | others at the table are refusing to take the feelings of
             | others into consideration
             | 
             | Yet another way to interpret this is we're increasingly
             | catering to narcissists who think that their personal
             | feelings and sensitivities should override the norms and
             | conventions of the group. Your example highlights the
             | problem. You don't need to tell people to tip toe around
             | someone's dad having died because that's a generally
             | recognized social norm.
             | 
             | That's what it comes down to. People want to just be able
             | to target their behavior to a general, objective social
             | norm, without customizing it for myriad individual
             | sensitivities. That's a good approach. Don't do anything
             | that transgresses the social norm. Don't be offended by
             | anything that complies with the social norm.
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | > _You don't need to tell people to tip toe around
               | someone's dad having died because that's a generally
               | recognized social norm._
               | 
               | No, but I do need to tell them that my dad died in order
               | for them to know. Otherwise, the GM just might bring my
               | PC's dad up out of the past, and kill him in front of my
               | PC again.
               | 
               | That's all that "the form" or Session Zero is. It's
               | explicitly laying out things that you may be sensitive
               | to, so that the rest of the group can continue to behave
               | in that general, objective social norm you're talking
               | about. It's a way for them to let me know that their dog
               | died last week, so that I know that the first combat of
               | the first session shouldn't be fighting a bunch of guard
               | hounds.
        
               | haswell wrote:
               | > _People want to just be able to target their behavior
               | to a general, objective social norm_
               | 
               | But herein lies the problem. There is no general,
               | objective social norm that covers the range of topics
               | necessary.
               | 
               | Social norms are regional, cultural, familial,
               | situational, etc. If you were to optimize for some
               | universal standard, the result would be pretty boring.
               | Think: "what would be appropriate in a corporate
               | workplace?".
               | 
               | Learning to navigate this as a group seems like a rather
               | reasonable and necessary social skill for everyone
               | involved. People who bristle at those with certain
               | sensitivities seem to be masking sensitivities of their
               | own and would prefer to just avoid a potentially
               | uncomfortable conversation.
               | 
               | And I've gotta be blunt: many gamers (tabletop and
               | otherwise) are often all too eager to blow right past
               | norms or are unaware of them completely, which leads to
               | recommendations like the above being helpful/necessary.
        
               | rayiner wrote:
               | > But herein lies the problem. There is no general,
               | objective social norm that covers the range of topics
               | necessary.
               | 
               | I'm pretty sure people happily played board games
               | together in the recent past without these conversations.
        
               | danudey wrote:
               | A lot of people did, and a lot of people were made to
               | feel extremely uncomfortable and unwelcome and ended up
               | leaving the game/community because of their bad
               | experiences with DMs who don't understand that it's not
               | okay to have NPCs sexually assault a player's character
               | just because they're a woman.
               | 
               | Now that we're laying out these kinds of guidelines,
               | maybe the people who legitimately don't understand why
               | that's bad will stop and listen to what others have to
               | say, and the ones who don't will be showing that they're
               | deliberately ignoring how they make other people feel.
        
               | jitl wrote:
               | Some nerds need and appreciate formalization of what
               | you're describing as a social norm being made explicit
               | and spelled out for them. Besides, most DMs I've played
               | with already do this kind of "ok what kinda stuff is
               | everyone thinking about for this campaign?" conversation
               | already, so these guidelines are just a reminder for
               | players or DMs to include this stuff in that conversation
               | too.
        
           | ineptech wrote:
           | I think you're trying to force a narrative that doesn't
           | really fit. This change isn't in response to "everything is
           | woke now", it's in response to people playing with strangers
           | more.
        
           | valbaca wrote:
           | > We're talking about playing a boardgame with friends, do we
           | really need to have a trigger-warning session?
           | 
           | First, it's not a "boardgame." It's a Role Playing Game. It's
           | much more unbounded than a board game and _you_ are actually
           | playing. Not just rolling dice but acting and imagining and
           | adding to the experience. You play your character and you
           | decide how that character acts.
           | 
           | > do we really need to have a trigger-warning session?
           | 
           | You could have one. Generally cover strong NOs and decide on
           | hot-topics that often make people uncomfortable:
           | 
           | racism/slavery, romance/sex, phobias, etc.
           | 
           | Then setup a system to halt if anything new comes up.
           | 
           | People throw around "trigger" and "safe-space" like they're
           | above feeling anything but sometimes it's just being
           | considerate. It's not just about language but situations.
           | 
           | We play D&D to have fun. For some, that means "leaving
           | politics out of it" but for others, those "politics" impact
           | our actual daily lives. To pretend they don't exist or to
           | _have_ to interact with them in a game can be just as un-fun.
           | 
           | > And when does that end? Every time I hang out with my
           | friends should we update our daily list of no-no words first?
           | 
           | Now you're being facetious. You communicate like people.
           | That's it.
           | 
           | If someone was recently mugged in real-life, you probably
           | wouldn't have their character get attacked by a rogue. If
           | someone had arachnophobia, you probably wouldn't drop down
           | the RPG-cliche giant spider. If someone has to deal with
           | real-life racism, you could probably understand why "knife-
           | ears" wouldn't feel fun. OR maybe they're all okay. It's all
           | about opt: opt-in and opt-out.
           | 
           | > oupled with that we are increasingly unable to fluidly deal
           | with differences this creates as they arise.
           | 
           | I think that's a YOU-issue. My friend group is a complex
           | group of people, and yet we find a way to have fun every week
           | with D&D while also respecting all members of the game.
        
         | mmooss wrote:
         | Why would the DM put something in their game that actually
         | traumatizes people?
        
           | UncleMeat wrote:
           | While I'd generally expect this to be naturally rare in dnd,
           | this isn't the case in many other games.
           | 
           | Monsterhearts deals with unhealthy sexual relationships at
           | its core. Night Witches deals with sexism at its core.
           | Bluebeard's Bride deals with straight up sexual violence at
           | its core. These topics are heavy and its worth having some
           | systems in place to help people navigate them.
           | 
           | This is especially true with con culture, where people are
           | likely to play ttrpgs with total strangers.
        
           | danudey wrote:
           | Some people just don't understand social norms and, you know,
           | other people's feelings, and use these sorts of games as
           | their own personal power fantasy.
           | 
           | There have been a kind of gross number of threads I've seen
           | where women join a group, make their character, and then
           | spend the entire first session having their character abused,
           | belittled, sexually assaulted, impregnated, etc.
           | 
           | Worth noting that not all D&D groups are among close friends;
           | sometimes you get invited to a group because you're looking
           | for people to play with and your friend group (if you have
           | one) doesn't play. No different than joining a frisbee golf
           | team, except with a much greater chance of a bottom-tier
           | caliber of people.
        
       | techwizrd wrote:
       | Why interview solely the grognards? Even OSE options like
       | Shadowdark have adopted terms like ancestry over race. It sorta
       | feels like this article is trying to create an issue where none
       | exists.
       | 
       | Changing race to species has not been a concern for myself, my
       | players, or those I know. We're more concerned with improving the
       | mechanics and speed of gameplay, balancing martials and casters,
       | improvements to the core books, backgrounds, bastions, and
       | impactful changes.
       | 
       | We want more variety at the table, not just everyone choosing the
       | same optimized builds from RPGBOT. I think Crawford in the
       | article puts it well: "People really wanted to be able to mix and
       | match their species choice with their character-class choice.
       | They didn't want choosing a dwarf to make them a lesser wizard."
        
         | jltsiren wrote:
         | I'm kind of surprised that optimized builds even exist, at
         | least outside competitive games.
         | 
         | Back in the day when I was playing tabletop RPGs, the standard
         | GM approach was that meaningful advantages must be balanced
         | with meaningful disadvantages. Encounters where the characters
         | had to face their weaknesses were supposed to be common. It
         | didn't really matter if your characters were optimized as not.
         | 
         | Character builds as a concept were just some video game
         | nonsense that had no place in actual role-playing games. At
         | least among the people I used to play with.
        
           | caeril wrote:
           | It depends on the complexity of your campaign. Back in the
           | day when I played D&D, we had a DM who would throw together
           | typical hack-and-slash-and-loot campaigns, in which you
           | wanted to maximize your STR, CON, DEX, and INT( if you were a
           | magic-using class ). Nobody wanted to assign points to
           | anything else, as they would be a waste.
           | 
           | It takes a good DM to balance a campaign, especially for
           | years. And I suspect most DMs are pretty bad (I'm guessing,
           | haven't played in over a decade now).
        
             | brightball wrote:
             | This is a valid point and it's honestly one of the things
             | that I really enjoy about the Dungeon Crawler Carl series.
             | One of the main character's best weapons is charisma.
             | Multiple different types of spells or abilities are
             | modified by secondary stats, like charisma with charm or
             | illusion spells.
             | 
             | I haven't played D&D in, like 30 years, but I don't ever
             | remember those types of game mechanics being involved. If
             | they are now it would make for some great potential
             | combinations. If a dwarf gets -1 INT and +1 CON, but
             | certain types of spells use CON as a modifier then it
             | creates an interesting combination.
        
         | Ntrails wrote:
         | > Changing race to species has not been a concern for myself,
         | my players, or those I know.
         | 
         | Largely the same, I acknowledge it's not being done _for_ me
         | and definitely doesn 't impact me. Shrug (or eyeroll if so
         | inclined) and move on.
         | 
         | > "People really wanted to be able to mix and match their
         | species choice with their character-class choice. They didn't
         | want choosing a dwarf to make them a lesser wizard."
         | 
         | Ok, but IMO nobody has more _fun_ by doing 13 damage a round
         | instead of 10. The consequence of chasing optimality is it
         | simply leads a DM to tune encounters appropriately.
         | 
         | > We want more variety at the table, not just everyone choosing
         | the same optimized builds from RPGBOT.
         | 
         | So instead everyone is using the same optimised builds but with
         | more _species_ variety? Does that really improve the state of
         | games in your experience?
         | 
         | I sort of want disparate builds, playing to aptitudes.
         | Balancing spell lists and feats etc to make lots of viable
         | builds is a hard problem to solve though (I've not played the
         | 2024 rules so have no idea how well they've done?).
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | > Largely the same, I acknowledge it's not being done for me
           | and definitely doesn't impact me. Shrug (or eyeroll if so
           | inclined) and move on
           | 
           | Who is it being done "for" if not for the people who play
           | this game? Don't you have the same stake in changes to the
           | game as anyone else?
        
             | techwizrd wrote:
             | Not all changes are for the players. The changes to remove
             | perceived racial biases may improve inclusion for some
             | minority of players. It may be a serious issue for those
             | players, the game designers, or some executive. Just like
             | real world changes to improve inclusivity, most are
             | unaffected and simply move on.
             | 
             | For the changes people care about, Wizards of the Coast
             | (WotC) publishes "Unearthed Arcana" or pre-release versions
             | of content (e.g., bastions, the Monk class, a new Druid
             | subclass). People will playtest the new content and WotC
             | surveys players to get feedback. Based on the feedback,
             | they may make additional changes or even scrap some things
             | entirely.
        
             | bluefirebrand wrote:
             | > Who is it being done "for" if not for the people who play
             | this game?
             | 
             | Many changes to media franchises and games are being made
             | in an effort to attract a new audience, or with the belief
             | that it increases appeal to the "modern audience". Emphasis
             | because this is the buzzword phrase that gets used quite a
             | lot to justify changes that are generating some amount of
             | controversy or negative attention. The problem is that
             | "modern audiences" may not actually exist
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | On one hand many people don't want to be dead weight when the
           | dice start rolling. On the other hand it can be more fun to
           | be the Half-Ork Wizard with 7 INT trying to role play a big
           | dumb guy who's only love is setting things on fire with his
           | mind and getting paid for it.
           | 
           | There's the age old role play vs. roll play argument. With a
           | good DM it shouldn't matter but if you're running some
           | prebuilt campaign then it might lead to unexpected struggles.
        
         | ineptech wrote:
         | I find this mystifying. I think of "choosing a dwarf makes you
         | a lesser wizard" as being a pretty core part of D&D. Have they
         | released specifics on this? If race/species is going to become
         | purely cosmetic, have they explained what will replace it,
         | mechanically?
        
           | WorldMaker wrote:
           | That's kind of the problem with it was it was mechanically
           | implementing something that was more setting/background
           | cosmetics specific in the first place. Not all settings think
           | dwarves should have a harder time becoming a wizard.
           | Forgotten Realms, the modern "default" for D&D thinks anyone
           | can do anything if they want, classes are just "jobs"
           | available to anyone. Those settings that do care, including
           | throwback settings, generally make it a story telling device
           | about why things are the way they are ("dwarves are closer to
           | the earth and have a hard time learning illusions") and the
           | hardships exceptions face ("it took a lot more work and they
           | lost access to some of their home community") and making it a
           | mechanical disadvantage doesn't do anything more interesting
           | than the storytelling tools already inherent in the setting.
        
             | ineptech wrote:
             | The problem is that some racial bonuses are things that can
             | be plausibly explained away by background (stat bonuses,
             | mental abilities, humans getting a feat) but a lot aren't
             | (aarakocra flight, dragonborn breath weapons, halflings
             | being able to hide more easily), and they're all balanced
             | against each other. Does an aarakocra raised by humans get
             | human bonuses, and still get to fly? Does a human raised by
             | aarakocra lose their human bonuses but grow wings?
        
               | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
               | You're conflating physical properties with other
               | abilities/characteristics. Does a dwarf have a physical
               | limitation preventing them from wielding magic? This is
               | the argument.
               | 
               | I don't see anything innately wrong with a human who can
               | breathe fire, or has wings, or a dwarf with four arms, so
               | long as you're willing to RP it. It does seem silly to
               | say that no, it's actually against the rules, your dwarf
               | can't learn magic.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Then why have races at all?
        
               | ineptech wrote:
               | Not sure how familiar you are with the rules of D&D, but
               | "lesser wizard" in this context means suboptimal stat
               | bonuses, not limitations on magic.
        
               | WesternWind wrote:
               | That's almost exactly the split they made actually, with
               | things like feats and flight still species based, but
               | statu bonuses and backgrounds (with maybe some small
               | exceptions) not being species based.
               | 
               | They did some work to balance it, but really species have
               | never been the biggest balance issue, it's always been
               | class stuff, or magical vs. martial issues, or the fact
               | that ranger is thematically cool if you like LOTR, but
               | sucks mechanically compared to other classes.
        
               | ineptech wrote:
               | Have the details been published anywhere? I looked
               | briefly and only see stuff describing it in general and
               | saying it is yet to be released.
        
           | Neonlicht wrote:
           | Every game has rules. As kids we learn not to peep when
           | playing hide and seek...
           | 
           | But this is D&D in the end it's all up to the DM.
        
             | danudey wrote:
             | The frustrating thing here is that the people in the
             | article are complaining that Wizards isn't 'leaving it up
             | to the DM', but that's one of the main things that WotC
             | always drives home - and still is. If you want to fill your
             | world with racist, ableist, sexist asshats and tell your
             | players that their orc character is going to be inherently
             | stupider than other races because they're inherently
             | (genetically?) inferior, you still can.
             | 
             | What they're really saying, as always, is 'why does
             | inclusivity have to be opt-out instead of opt-in?'
        
           | grraaaaahhh wrote:
           | I mean, if you go far back enough "dwarves cannot be wizards"
           | was a core part of D&D as well.
        
           | zzo38computer wrote:
           | > I think of "choosing a dwarf makes you a lesser wizard" as
           | being a pretty core part of D&D.
           | 
           | I agree that you should be able to make suboptimal choices if
           | you wish, but I think that shouldn't be the issue.
           | 
           | Your character will be more than just a dwarf and a wizard
           | (otherwise the game will be too simple), in addition to those
           | things, so if a dwarf will be more likely to have an
           | advantage at something else that is independent of classes,
           | then you can have that, and still be a wizard, even if a
           | "greater wizard" lacks what your character will have.
           | 
           | (There might also be the possibility, that if dwarf wizards
           | are not very common (for whatever reason; there are many
           | possibilities, depending on the story), then someone might
           | not expect you to be a wizard so might be possible for some
           | surprise if you are disguised by mundane means.)
        
         | sdwr wrote:
         | I've been playing Grim Dawn recently, and feeling the tension
         | between optimizing and exploring, between pre-built and puzzled
         | out.
         | 
         | If you can manage to forget about the answer key lurking on
         | every forum, the core experience of finding synergy, figuring
         | out a build, balancing resistances is surprisingly fun.
         | 
         | > Why interview solely the grognards?
         | 
         | And, I know it's a rhetorical question, but the answer is:
         | 
         | > So the article can serve double duty as a Nat Geo-style
         | jungle expedition, providing glimpses of unwashed tribespeople
         | to intrigued middle Americans.
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | > Kuntz, the designer and Gygax collaborator, said that while
       | some topics ought to be considered off-limits, it was a mistake
       | to interfere with the implicit social contract that has sustained
       | Dungeons & Dragons for decade.
       | 
       | I'm fully in agreement with this statement. This is like human
       | group dynamics 101, which underlies all social interaction. You
       | figure out what sort of people you are playing with, how familiar
       | you are with each other, and what sort of fun you want to have
       | together. If unsure, err on the side of tameness. This has many-
       | many dimensions besides the ones about taboo topics mentioned in
       | the article.
       | 
       | Handling this through a form feels incredibly insincere and
       | performative, and insinuates that people (including me) are not
       | to be trusted. If you don't trust the people you're playing with,
       | you shouldn't be playing in the first place.
       | 
       | That being said, this is 100% manufactured controversy. It's
       | virtue signaling from Hasbro (possibly ESG dollar sign motivated)
       | as well as pearl clutching from right wingers. How tabletop works
       | is you ignore all the stuff you don't like or don't care about. I
       | have played with quite a few parties, some of them consisting of
       | people who were complete strangers at first, and also quite
       | socially heterogenous.
       | 
       | I have never seen such a form in my life, and yet despite that,
       | none of our campaigns turned into the pen-and-paper version of
       | Blood Meridian.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | > _You figure out what sort of people you are playing with, how
         | familiar you are with each other, and what sort of fun you want
         | to have together._
         | 
         | Yes. And you figure this out with a new group by using the new
         | tools during a session zero :)
        
       | stolenmerch wrote:
       | A problem with the X-Card concept is that it can only be used
       | within the pre-existing Overton Window of the group anyway, so
       | you might as well ditch it in favor of normal social negotiation.
       | For example, X-Card guidelines always tell players they can use
       | it to block anything they're uncomfortable with. However, you'll
       | quickly learn you can't use it to block political ideology from
       | the DM, even if you legitimately find it triggering and
       | distressing.
        
         | giraffe_lady wrote:
         | The general point makes sense, the GM is has a lot of social
         | power and there are risks to publicly calling them out on
         | anything really.
         | 
         | But I'm having a hard time imagining this specific example.
         | What would be an example of political ideology from the GM that
         | you'd want to block?
        
           | stolenmerch wrote:
           | Mostly political agendas that spill over from the real world,
           | often surrounding themes of social justice and left-wing
           | activism but sometimes right wing fascist themes as well. I
           | just find it infuriating to have the DM shoehorn their
           | extremist political views into a game. Especially with the
           | leftist DMs, I've found that I'm usually expected to
           | reinforce their beliefs and not question them, even with
           | provided X-Cards or the like.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | But what is an example of this in a game? How would this
             | come up in a way that you'd feel uncomfortable with? I'm
             | just struggling to see concretely what this would _look_
             | like.
             | 
             | Examples elsewhere in this comment section like eg sexual
             | assault I can easily see how that would both come up in a
             | game _and_ interact with player experience to make them
             | uncomfortable in a way they may not want to have to explain
             | in the middle of a session.
        
               | stolenmerch wrote:
               | I'm getting downvoted simply for giving examples, thus
               | proving my point. But if you need a concrete example, I
               | once had a DM include a drag show in-game.
        
               | JamesBarney wrote:
               | And a better solution for this is to not run campaigns at
               | conventions or public games that have sexual assault.
        
           | thatguysaguy wrote:
           | I know a number of otherwise pleasant people who have as a
           | political/philosophical view that it's not rude to insult
           | certain identity groups.
           | 
           | I wouldn't say I find it triggering when someone says
           | something about men, just annoying, but I can imagine someone
           | who is more easily upset feeling that way.
           | 
           | That being said, if you have friends willing to say things
           | that they know upset you, you probably need better friends,
           | not a card.
        
         | junek wrote:
         | > you'll quickly learn you can't use it to block political
         | ideology from the DM
         | 
         | That's like, not true at all. The X card is exactly for that
         | purpose, the GM doesn't get a special exception from the effect
         | of the X card.
         | 
         | As a GM, if a player reaches for the X card for any reason I'm
         | obliged to stop and listen.
         | 
         | I'm curious what exactly you mean by "political ideology" in
         | this context. Can you give a concrete example of the kind of
         | thing that makes you uncomfortable?
        
           | stolenmerch wrote:
           | I believe you, but that's not the case everywhere. I've had
           | DMs who have put drag shows in our game as part of tavern
           | entertainment, for example. Even though I have no problem
           | with them in real life, I have no desire to see them in my
           | fantasy game because it just reminds me of contemporary
           | culture war shenanigans. When questioned on it or asked if we
           | could not do that, I've received nothing but pushback. Stuff
           | like that.
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Not every group is right for every person.
             | 
             | But the big thing is this: it's not your fantasy game. It's
             | the shared fantasy game of you, the other players, and the
             | DM.
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | > Not every group is right for every person.
               | 
               | In the context of an X-card discussion, that's hilarious.
               | 
               | "Touch the X-card, but only if the group agrees on why
               | the X-card was touched. Otherwise, find new group"
               | 
               | turns out the real x-card was the group itself :)
        
         | zanderwohl wrote:
         | I find the X-Card most useful at conventions. When I sit down
         | at a table I have no idea where strangers' lines are. It
         | provides a more frictionless way to let people tell you how to
         | be courteous, without knowing them very well.
        
           | JamesBarney wrote:
           | I think guidelines and an equivalent of a trigger warning is
           | a better solution. It's really hard to modify a campaign on
           | the fly if for example someone is uncomfortable with cults
           | but that's the primary driver of the storyline.
        
       | infinitezest wrote:
       | Isn't this just WotC catching up to 90% of other TTRPGs?
       | 
       | There's a part of me that understands where the pushback on these
       | changes is coming from (some people are narcissistic and could
       | abuse these tools), but ultimately it seems like a good thing to
       | have in the book for groups that aren't already friends. If you
       | don't need em, just don't use em.
       | 
       | As an aside, I would encourage anyone that's just getting into
       | the hobby now, not to give WotC any money. There's a ton of other
       | RPGs out there that are just as good if not better and aren't
       | accompanied by grotesque profit maximizing. But either way, just
       | make sure everyone is having fun.
        
       | netbioserror wrote:
       | Adding meaningless chaff like this to the rulebook has a near 1.0
       | correlation with entirely in-module railroad campaigns, avoidance
       | of house rules and homebrewing, and by-the-book rules play. The
       | new D&D audience only knows how to color inside the lines. Case
       | in point: Celebration and debate over tiny rules changes any
       | group could have made themselves.
       | 
       | Really jogs the noggin.
        
         | zanderwohl wrote:
         | It's nice to have a better core game. D&D is perhaps the only
         | TTRPG known to have such sparse content that players have to
         | fix the rules themselves to make the game playable.
        
           | mnky9800n wrote:
           | I gave up learning new systems after I spent lots of money on
           | 3.5e books and then 4e came out. It wasn't that I didn't want
           | to spend money it just seemed that another big overhaul of
           | all the rules felt like the beginning of the end for the game
           | being anything more than cardboard and paper for sale. My
           | imagination seemed to be able to fill in any gaps that
           | wizards of the coast seemed intent on selling me.
        
       | mmooss wrote:
       | I have no idea about the current rules, but haven't they always
       | been separate species? Can an elf and a dwarf make a fertile
       | child?
        
         | bena wrote:
         | I don't know about elves and dwarves, but just about every race
         | could be a human hybrid.
         | 
         | But it came with stat hits. Half-elves were more like humans
         | than elves, etc.
         | 
         | And from what it seems, they're separating stats from
         | race/species. Which is probably an overall good. I'm going to
         | use the older terminology as this was the issue with the older
         | game. If you wanted to be a wizard, you should be an elf. If
         | you wanted to be an elf, you should be a wizard. And things
         | like that. Certain classes just worked better with certain
         | races.
         | 
         | But now, if I want to be an elf barbarian, that's better
         | supported. I'm not fighting the game rules to play the role I
         | want to.
        
           | JamesBarney wrote:
           | You're right it's not ideal that races shoehorn you into
           | certain classes, but on the other hand you don't want
           | someone's race to be flavortext. I think there's a balance to
           | be struck. I doubt DnD will find it on the first shot, but
           | I'm looking forward to what it looks like for the version
           | after next.
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | I will likely do some searching on this later, but I am curious
       | how "race" ever came to be the word we use instead of "Species"
       | in nearly every video game I know of that has a character creator
       | (at least until recently)? I know I have struggled to not say
       | race when I really mean species just out of many years of habit.
       | 
       | That being said, I don't really understand the push to remove
       | species benefits from games (not just D&D) and instead just do a
       | name change? It makes sense that in a fictional world that
       | different species would have their strengths and weaknesses just
       | for biological reasons.
       | 
       | Or story reasons like in Mass Effect where the Asari live to
       | around 1000 or more (I don't remember exactly) and have a very
       | natural benefit for biotic abilities.
       | 
       | I understand the concern that some of these traits were
       | originally racially fueled, but it makes sense for there to be
       | differences of some sort.
        
         | bena wrote:
         | I think the main reason is that it kind of pigeon-holed certain
         | races and classes. There were just objectively correct choices.
         | In a game where there should be no "correct" choice. And it was
         | mostly benefit, very few drawbacks. And the drawbacks that
         | existed could easily be circumvented.
        
         | object-a wrote:
         | One thing I like about the new rules: they let users create
         | their own unique species/class combinations, without feeling
         | like the game's rules are limiting you.
         | 
         | For example, a Barbarian gnome or Half-orc wizard can be fun
         | choices from a role playing perspective, but suboptimal in
         | combat or gameplay. Removing species-specific ability score
         | increases lets players create non-standard combinations without
         | weakening the party.
        
           | Teckla wrote:
           | Speaking as both a D&D DM _and_ player, the  "sub-optimal
           | game play" makes the campaign more fun, more diverse, and
           | offers more thoroughly enjoyable role-playing and problem
           | solving opportunities. It _doesn 't_ make it less fun.
           | 
           | Not to mention that D&D rules aren't carved in stone. I've
           | never encountered a DM or D&D group that wouldn't allow
           | players the leeway to create a barbarian gnome or half-orc
           | wizard with their desired stats, if that was important to
           | them.
           | 
           | The changes WoTC made are bad, and make everything less fun
           | and more generic. Their _intentions_ were good, but what they
           | 've done really isn't helpful or good at all.
        
             | nickthegreek wrote:
             | Then just like before, don't use them. You can still roll a
             | sub-optimal character. No one is forcing anyone to make
             | only superheroes.
        
             | object-a wrote:
             | An experienced DM can of course let their players create
             | whatever character they want, but a less experienced DM
             | might be concerned about balance/fairness/implications of
             | bending the rules. By creating an alternative, flexible
             | rule for ability scores, a table can feel confident that
             | the characters they build are still balanced.
             | 
             | > The changes WoTC made are bad, and make everything less
             | fun and more generic. Their intentions were good, but what
             | they've done really isn't helpful or good at all.
             | 
             | As you said above, the DM and table can agree to whatever
             | constraints they want for the game, including using the old
             | ability scores.
        
           | zzo38computer wrote:
           | I disagree. Sometimes you might select such combinations
           | because you like suboptimal combinations for a challenge or
           | for other reasons. (The rules should not prohibit from making
           | such selections.) However, there might sometimes be
           | advantages as well as disadvantages to your selections.
           | 
           | However, I don't like class-based systems so much, and I
           | prefer skill-based systems. Instead of selecting a character
           | class, you can select which skills you want (including
           | narrower skills; I think the skills in GURPS are not narrow
           | enough) and how much of each one.
           | 
           | But see also my other comment for other details.
        
             | object-a wrote:
             | You can make sub-optimal combinations, but D&D is a team
             | game. If you build a Barbarian that can't deal damage, or a
             | Wizard who's spells never land, you're letting the rest of
             | your team down.
             | 
             | > The rules should not prohibit from making such
             | selections.
             | 
             | The new rules give you _more_ freedom to choose a
             | suboptimal build. You can even play a Gnome with low
             | intelligence under the new rules, something that was
             | impossible before.
        
         | roenxi wrote:
         | My understanding is that the word's use has morphed over time
         | and it could be used to mean ethnicity back in the day
         | (probably still can, I'd expect "Irish race", "Scottish race"
         | or "English race" to parsed as intended in most contexts).
         | Given how D&D uses it the people who wrote the game interpreted
         | "race" to mean anything basically humanoid that looked
         | systemically different which seems like a reasonable take for
         | the times. Then people rolled with it because we're generally
         | talking high fantasy where science has no meaning and "race"
         | rolls off the tongue better than "species".
        
         | auntienomen wrote:
         | I think the use of the term "race" probably comes from early
         | Dungeons & Dragons. The original D&D had dwarf, elf, gnome, and
         | hob^H^H^H halfling as character classes. It used the term
         | "demi-humans" for these.
         | 
         | In 1978, TSR produced "Advanced Dungeons & Dragons", the first
         | of many attempts to clean-up and rationalize the game's basic
         | system. It appears to me that this is where they first factored
         | out race (i.e., [human, half-elf, elf,...]) as a separate PC
         | characteristic.
         | 
         | From my cursory search, Tolkien seems to have often referred to
         | dwarves, elves, and whatnot as "peoples" and used the word
         | "race" for different subgroups of those. He at some point wrote
         | (in a letter, not in the stories) that that at least elves &
         | men were able to interbreed on ocassion, and thus were
         | technically the same species. But he was mainly interested in
         | the drama around half-elves, and left open questions about
         | dwarf/elf and hobbit/ent pairings for later explorers...
        
         | amiga386 wrote:
         | > how "race" ever came to be the word we use instead of
         | "Species" in nearly every video game I know of that has a
         | character creator
         | 
         | The character creator does not let you roleplay as a tree,
         | bacterium, moss, fish, vole, etc.
         | 
         | It lets you roleplay as an anthropomorphised, sentient,
         | sapient, language-using creature, with minor visual differences
         | - a human, an almost-human that looks like a lizard, an almost-
         | human that looks like a cat, an almost-human that looks like a
         | bird, an almost-human with hooves and horns, a short human, a
         | very short human, a tall human with pointy ears, a dark-skinned
         | human, a blue-skinned human, a green-skinned human, a purple-
         | skinned human, and so on.
         | 
         | If you're Commander Shepard, you're going to have sex with all
         | of them. I suspect the progeny, if any, would be fertile.
         | Claims that these are distinct species that all colonised
         | different parts of the galaxy are a thin veneer. True "alien"
         | life would be hyperintelligent shades of blue like in HHGTTG,
         | hiveminds like in Ender's Game, or the amazing fauna in
         | Scavengers Reign. They would not be a human actor wearing a
         | Cornish pasty, even if you say they're Klingons.
         | 
         | I put it to you that your character creator choices are all the
         | same _SPECIES_ , and their differences are minor genetic and
         | cultural groupings driven by geographical isolation, which we
         | call "ethnicity" or _" RACE"_. And all the stories you make up
         | playing RPGs are, in fact, human dramas. You're pretending that
         | the story tensions aren't just ethnic tensions, but that's what
         | they are. And when you kill orcs, drow, revenants or other
         | "baddies", you're actually just killing stand-ins for humans.
         | Humans that your ethnicity/tribe of humans looks down on (if
         | you fight non-sentient monsters or plants, I'll let you off
         | with that)
        
         | LordDragonfang wrote:
         | Technically "species" is also incorrect, since many D&D races
         | can produce fertile offspring, whether half-breeds or otherwise
         | (half-elf and half-orc have been core races for ages)
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | My instinct would be it's a borrowing from Tolkien, which is
         | full of "the race of men" and "the Elvish race" etc.
        
       | doesnt_know wrote:
       | Here's my gift link for the full article:
       | 
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/30/arts/dungeons-and-dragons...
        
       | drivingmenuts wrote:
       | I'd bet Melon Husk hasn't played D&D in years ... I doubt he'd be
       | able to even find a table that didn't bow to his every whim.
       | 
       | Honestly, the "species" thing has bothered me for years. I'm not
       | sure I'd agree with divorcing physical traits completely, but
       | that's easy enough to house-rule, as is everything else about the
       | game. I feel sure that anyone getting upset is doing so
       | performatively, not because it's actually a problem.
        
       | bjourne wrote:
       | For the longest time a mmorpg I used to play used to have gender-
       | based bonuses an maluses. So a woman would make a shitty warrior
       | and a man an under-powered mage. On the game's boards this was
       | argued about forever because many girls wanted to play warriors.
       | The guardians of the game were not relenting. Females as strong
       | as males were "unrealistic"... In a game where you can shoot
       | fireballs, travel through dimensions, go back in time, and
       | resurrect the dead....
       | 
       | Eventually, as more and more players quit the game the gender
       | differences were dropped. Before that I used to play some female
       | characters to get access to the op mage bonuses. But damn, there
       | were so many creeps who thought i was a "real" girl.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Women are generally weaker than men, and even in the situation
         | that you're explaining, women with a strength penalty could
         | still end up stronger than men within the game.
         | 
         | The insistence that acknowledging that women are weaker than
         | men is some sort of bigotry is deeply misogynistic. If fantasy
         | women are just as strong as men, then real women just need to
         | work harder to live up to the standards of men. If women in
         | fantasy are as strong as men, then women in reality aren't
         | being allowed to see themselves in fantasy.
         | 
         | The repeated justification that women in a fantasy world
         | shouldn't resemble women, or "...in a game where you can shoot
         | fireballs, travel through dimensions, go back in time, and
         | resurrect the dead..." is silly. Women in a game can also _get
         | magic powers that make them stronger._ Erasing female
         | physicality is erasing women, and replacing them with men
         | playing women.
        
       | syngrog66 wrote:
       | in D&D race always meant species. No real change there. But the
       | idea that there are no common "baseline" traits based on species
       | is obviously nuts and contradicted by plenty of real world
       | examples.
       | 
       | Thankfully individual DMs and players are free to keep WOTC's
       | "liberal" politics trend out of their own gaming experiences if
       | they wish. Everyone is free to use their own terms and house
       | rules to tailor the base game to taste.
        
       | zzo38computer wrote:
       | My opinion is that this is not the way to do it.
       | 
       | > "Races" are now "species."
       | 
       | I think neither word is really "proper", but "race" is shorter.
       | (I am not really either for or against this change, and I don't
       | really mind this, much.)
       | 
       | They mention that Paizo preferred "ancestry", and that does seem
       | better to me than iehter "race" or "species". (However, I think
       | it is not really that much of a significant issue, anyways.)
       | 
       | > Some character traits have been divorced from biological
       | identity; a mountain dwarf is no longer inherently brawny and
       | durable, a high elf no longer intelligent and dexterous by
       | definition
       | 
       | I think that is not quite right. On average, a mountain dwarf
       | might be brawny and durable, but individual characters should be
       | allowed to be difference from averages in many ways; it should
       | not require you to be average or above average according to your
       | character's race/species/gender/etc, because you can have more
       | diversity. But, "diversity" should not mean that such biological
       | traits do not apply at all; that is the wrong way to do it.
       | 
       | Also, such things as "intelligence" is not so simply explained by
       | a single number anyways; it is more complicated than that.
       | Strength is less so, but still can be not so simple, too.
       | 
       | (An example which is separate from the ones mentioned above: If
       | your character has hands like scorpion, then there are bonuses to
       | some things and penalties to other things, and you might be able
       | to grapple by hand as though it is bite, and some tasks that
       | would normally only need one hand will now require two hands,
       | etc. So, many traits will have advantages and disadvantages. And,
       | if you have wings to fly then you can fly; if your character is
       | small then can fit into smaller spaces but cannot easily reach
       | the stuff in the high shelf (nor attack a taller character's head
       | as easily); etc.)
       | 
       | > Robert J. Kuntz, an award-winning game designer who frequently
       | collaborated with Gary Gygax, a co-creator of Dungeons & Dragons,
       | said he disliked Wizards of the Coast's efforts to legislate from
       | above rather than provide room for dungeon masters -- the game's
       | ringleaders and referees -- to tailor their individual campaigns.
       | 
       | I think they are right; the game should be individual. You can
       | decide if you want to use any rule variants, etc; such a thing is
       | common enough anyways. WotC cannot (and should not attempt to)
       | control everything.
       | 
       | > In addition to its species, each character in Dungeons &
       | Dragons is assigned a class such as bard, druid, rogue or wizard.
       | 
       | I would prefer a skill-based system, although D&D is a class-
       | based system. (This is not a complaint; people who do like a
       | class-based system might prefer D&D.)
       | 
       | > "People really wanted to be able to mix and match their species
       | choice with their character-class choice," Crawford said, adding,
       | "They didn't want choosing a dwarf to make them a lesser wizard."
       | 
       | Even if it is not the best combination, it should still be a
       | playable character. Sometimes you might want a suboptimal choice,
       | but it is not only that. There should be other things that can be
       | defined as well, such as skills, etc. You can have the advantages
       | and disadvantages of each, in order to make up the character like
       | you like to do it.
       | 
       | (Another example would be: A wizard that likes to carry a lot of
       | spell books should have enough strength to carry them. Having
       | good strength is also helpful in case you run out of spells and
       | want to fight by hand, but then you should also need a skill in
       | fighting by hand; this is why I like skill-based systems.)
       | 
       | > There was also a tabaxi, a creature with the feline appearance
       | and night vision that one would expect of a species created by
       | the Cat Lord. "He's a tabaxi adopted into an elven family," said
       | Kyle Smith, who created the character, Uldreyin Alma Salamar
       | Daelamin the Fifth, for this campaign. "He's also a sorcerer --
       | the magic is innate to that. He's deciding between who he is and
       | what he was raised in."
       | 
       | This is something that you should be allowed to have. In this
       | way, you will be tabaxi (and therefore, have night vision), but
       | you had learned elven things (e.g. perhaps elven languages). And,
       | is also a sorcerer (so you can cast spells). So, that is good
       | that your character is not only one thing. However, you should
       | not have to decide between them; you are all of them, isn't it?
       | 
       | > Smith added, "If being a tabaxi didn't matter, then who cares?"
       | "He'd just be a fuzzy elf," Cutler chimed in.
       | 
       | It would seem that the rule changes would make that problem. I
       | agree it is no good and I explained above.
        
       | mnky9800n wrote:
       | I just want to find a good living world game that is 3.5e and not
       | on discord. I would wish for a Star Wars saga edition game but
       | that is probably asking too much.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | WoTC bought D&D so it's no surprise.
       | 
       | The worst they did is the LoTR Magic The Gathering card series.
       | They managed to create black Aragorn and asian Gandalf. And they
       | turned Goldberry into a fat woman. I'm sorry but that's simply
       | not what the book depicts.
       | 
       | It's not done to unite people. It's not done out of good
       | intentions. It's done because there's a very woke political
       | agenda behind this.
       | 
       | It's not harmless: it's history rewriting. It's propaganda at
       | work.
        
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