[HN Gopher] A sneak peek at Notre-Dame's new stained glass designs
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A sneak peek at Notre-Dame's new stained glass designs
        
       Author : prismatic
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2024-12-26 15:08 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | Modernist tomfoolery; we'll break even international conventions
       | on historical preservation for the sake of a moral anyone can
       | learn by watching a Disney movie.
       | 
       | If it even gets installed, watch in two decades as the old
       | windows are returned once the banal novelty wears off.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | Modernism as an art-style is substantially closer in time, to
         | the windows being replaced than to the present day.
         | 
         | Modernist art started in the late 1800's century, and lasted
         | into the early 1900's. Eugene Viollet-le-Duc's restoration of
         | Notre-Dame started in 1844, and Viollet-le-Duc is often hailed
         | as a prominent theoretician of modernism.
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | > Modernist tomfoolery; we'll break even international
         | conventions on historical preservation for the sake of a moral
         | anyone can learn by watching a Disney movie.
         | 
         | What are you on?
         | 
         | You could, I don't know, actually look at the use of stained
         | glass in churches and seen that the new windows fit squarely in
         | the tradition of Catholic Church:
         | https://www.gettyimages.se/fotografier/catholic-church-stain...
         | 
         | Not to mention that the current glass from the 19th century was
         | literally put there by "the father of modern/modernist
         | architecture"
        
       | almostnormal wrote:
       | Those windows are not just pieces of art to look at. They do also
       | tint the sunlight, and with that the inside of the cathedral. The
       | proposed new ones each use different colors, which is probably
       | going to cause different parts to be tinted differently.
       | 
       | Should they indeed be replaced, it's a hardeware problem. But by
       | adding computer controled (depeding on sunlight conditions)
       | tinted light bulbs it can be fixed in software.
        
       | breckinloggins wrote:
       | I don't like 'em. Bah.
       | 
       | But then again I'm old now and have always been a bit too "trad"
       | for even my own liking.
       | 
       | If they prove popular, through, who am I to judge?
        
         | uxhacker wrote:
         | What is so sad about this is the windows don't need to be
         | replaced. Original windows hold significant value. While modern
         | replacements typically need replacement within 20-30 years,
         | historic wooden windows can last centuries with proper
         | maintenance. The craftsmanship in older windows often surpasses
         | modern alternatives, making restoration a worthwhile investment
         | for both historical accuracy and longevity.
         | 
         | I restored 189 windows in my 200-year-old house in Poland
         | rather than replacing them. The windows are fundamental to a
         | building's character and historical authenticity. You can date
         | a building by analyzing its window features. The older the
         | house, the fewer and smaller the windows, often due to glass
         | manufacturing limitations and structural needs. For instance, a
         | 16th-century manor might have small, thick-glassed windows with
         | irregular panes, while an 18th-century townhouse would show
         | taller, multi-paned sash windows.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | The "original windows" in this context are windows 700 years
           | newer than Notre Dame that were themselves part of a
           | significant modernisation, and only a small part of the
           | windows of Notre Dame (about 5% of the windows are being
           | replaced).
           | 
           | The replacement windows are also made by a studio that has a
           | history going back way past the windows being replaced, and a
           | history specifically of restoring historic glass - I very
           | much doubt they'll need replacement within 20-30 years.
           | 
           | The gradual renewal over centuries of renovations and
           | restorations is itself part of the historic legacy of Notre
           | Dame.
        
           | thatfrenchguy wrote:
           | > While modern replacements typically need replacement within
           | 20-30 years
           | 
           | This is complete bullshit you find on the internet though,
           | there are "replacement windows" in my house that are 30 yold
           | and nowhere near needing replacing.
        
         | uxhacker wrote:
         | You can sign a petition against the change here :
         | https://www.change.org/p/let-s-preserve-viollet-le-duc-s-sta...
        
         | _DeadFred_ wrote:
         | Agreed 100%. I love your phrasing. My initial repose was
         | surprisingly too "trad" for my own liking. Doesn't seem to
         | matter age or supposed wisdom, we are always a work in progress
         | aren't we?
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | The new designs are really close to "trad" designs of stained
         | glass which often depicted scenes from the bible, saints etc.
         | 
         | How is this concept:
         | https://media.beauxarts.com/uploads/2024/12/web000_36qn6km.j...
         | worse than the existing windows:
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Notre_Da...
         | ?
         | 
         | For reference: https://www.gettyimages.se/fotografier/catholic-
         | church-stain...
        
       | _DeadFred_ wrote:
       | Not really a fan, I think that Notre Dame's appeal is it's age
       | but holly heck the comments here (and in fact, my grose personal
       | initial response internally of 'there they go forcing...')
       | convinced me these are probably a good and needed change. Though
       | I hope they match the original colors let in.
       | 
       | WTF people? This is a building dedicated to a dude who said 'love
       | everyone' and 'forgive everyone so you can see past judgement and
       | instead see who they truly are and their worth'. Built to be a
       | physical representation of the power/holiness of that ideal. It's
       | easy to love the in-crowd. It's easy to love/understand those we
       | know. But old boy's message was about more than that.
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | Bad bot. You should've posted that when the negative comments
         | are _actually posted in the thread_.
        
       | highcountess wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | khazhoux wrote:
         | Are you reviewing some higher-res images of these new windows?
         | Because I couldn't hardly see anything in the small images in
         | the article.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | Modernism was contemporary with Eugene Viollet-le-Duc, the
         | creator of the windows _being replaced_ , and he is in fact
         | often described as a theoretician of modernism, and an
         | inspiration for people like Le Corbusier - who specifically
         | described Viollet-le-Duc as at the root of the movement - and
         | Frank Lloyd Wright.
         | 
         | You go on to call it "typically contemporarily narcissistic",
         | but the architectural style of Modernism is not contemporary to
         | us.
        
           | Reasoning wrote:
           | It seems bad faith to assume the OP is using the term
           | modernism specifically to refer to the Modernism movement
           | rather than the other use of the word "a practice, usage, or
           | expression peculiar to modern times", per Merriam-Webster.
           | 
           | Also, drawing the connection between Eugene Viollet-le-Duc
           | and Modernism architecture to argue for removing Eugene's
           | glass with a more modern style ignores his own motivation for
           | his restoration which was to restore Notre-Dame to it's
           | original gothic style. The reason Eugene's stained glass is
           | there is because past canons had "modernized" it by replacing
           | the original medieval stained glass with plain white panes.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Could you please stop posting ideological battle comments and
         | flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it a lot. It's
         | tedious, and it's not what this site is for.
         | 
         | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the
         | intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
        
       | mrmincent wrote:
       | Lots of complaints about the new windows, but just wait 100-200
       | years and they'll be seen as historical items that shouldn't be
       | replaced as well.
        
         | cjs_ac wrote:
         | As the article notes, the old windows only date back to the
         | nineteenth century.
        
       | lelandbatey wrote:
       | Those designs seem... fine? The imagery seems quite traditional,
       | the largest deviation seems to be the choice of strong unifying
       | colors across whole windows, while having colors that aren't
       | traditional to the rest of Notre-Dame, such as pinks and yellows.
       | 
       | The windows they're replacing seem pretty boring and
       | uninteresting, I can see why they're taking advantage of these
       | renovations to _also_ spruce up these windows with new designs
       | (itself a many centuries long tradition).
       | 
       | For reference, here's the windows that are being replaced:
       | 
       | https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Notre_Dame_Cathedr...
        
         | troupo wrote:
         | I will add another reference: Photos of stained windows across
         | churches https://www.gettyimages.se/fotografier/catholic-
         | church-stain... The new designs keep the tradition of depicting
         | people in stained glass
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | This is a fake controversy. There has always been contemporary
       | art in Notre-Dame. The decision about the windows was made all
       | the way back in 2021.
        
       | Reasoning wrote:
       | "In such a project, one cannot act with too much prudence or
       | discretion...A restoration may be more disastrous for a monument
       | than the ravages of centuries." - Eugene Viollet-le-Duc
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-12-28 23:01 UTC)