[HN Gopher] The hydraulic systems of the Alhambra Palace [video]
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The hydraulic systems of the Alhambra Palace [video]
Author : zeristor
Score : 139 points
Date : 2024-12-21 22:22 UTC (7 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| zeristor wrote:
| I am particularly amazed by the water vortex drawing in air to
| enable the water to rise higher.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| Yep, saw this video a while ago and came here to say that
| there's multiple clever systems in place, but that bit's
| definitely worth a watch. It's at about ~7:30
| twic wrote:
| I'm not sure i believe that bit. If you can lift a flow of
| water from one level to a higher level without an input of
| energy, you have a perpetual motion machine. And those aren't
| allowed.
|
| I assume that what happened here is that some fraction of the
| input flow was drained to a lower level, and the liberated
| potential energy captured and used to lift the remaining
| fraction to a higher level. That's not what's shown in the
| video, though.
|
| There's a description starting on page 369 here, although it's
| not completely clear how it works (the author is an
| archaeologist, not an engineer!): https://sci-
| hub.se/10.1093/jis/etw016
|
| Subsequent prior art (IYSWIM) is the hydraulic ram, which does
| this a different way:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_ram
| petermcneeley wrote:
| In the pdf you provided a significant portion of the water
| appears to drain. So the energy equation might work out.
| roenxi wrote:
| Indeed. Fascinating puzzle. Without an external source of
| energy there must be a volume of water leaving the system
| that doesn't make it to the higher level. If it was possible
| to partition the water and the energy but not with the same
| partition (ie, 40% of the water gets 80% of the energy, 60%
| of the water the other 20%) then the system would be
| thermodynamically legal. So maybe the vortex was to create a
| high- and low- pressure mass of water.
|
| This mechanism is ingenious in the best meaning of the word.
| stavros wrote:
| I wonder if the extra energy is the kinetic energy (the water
| rushes into the cistern to create the vortex, but then is
| still when it's raised).
| zeristor wrote:
| The first video I saw was a YouTube short purely on this, I
| had thought it was just taken from this main video.
|
| My understanding was that the water was aerated, and so less
| dense meaning it could rise higher.
|
| Vaersgo:
|
| https://youtube.com/shorts/BkVUQQnfrDg
|
| Ideally I'd like to see an experiment to explicitly confirm
| it.
| interloxia wrote:
| The vortex might be a variation of a trompe, a water-powered
| air compressor. The compressed air is in turn used as an
| airlift pump.
|
| new to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trompe
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airlift_pump
|
| edit: the text version of the video refers a study that I don't
| have access to.
|
| https://primalnebula.com/the-engineering-of-the-alhambras-wa...
|
| The Mastery in Hydraulic Techniques for Water Supply at the
| Alhambra Garcia-Pulido, Luis Jose Journal of Islamic Studies,
| Volume 27 (3) - Sep 1, 2016 https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/oxford-
| university-press/the-mast...
| russellbeattie wrote:
| This is how toilets work as well.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| This is really cool video. This Palace is also significant if you
| are into garden design. As it holds a kind of best in its class
| of Arabic/Islamic gardens. You would be surprised how much rich
| people care about their gardens. So this one is an inspiration.
| And not just to the leather panted garden designers. But lots of
| people that visit this palace get inspired by the graden there.
| theboywho wrote:
| Alhambra comes from the Moroccan Arabic word "Alhamra" which
| means The Red, it shares many engineering similarities with what
| was practiced at the time in what is today considered Morocco,
| some examples include:
|
| - The Kasbah of Moulay Ismail in Meknes, a parallel to the
| Alhambra's engineering sophistication, particularly in its
| hydraulic systems.
|
| - Khettara Networks: Underground water channels designed to
| transport water down slopes without active pumping with gravity-
| fed systems that tap into aquifers, there are extensive networks
| of these particularly around Marrakech and southern regions.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| I saw this as well in my youtube recommendations and this post
| made me wonder how many people have a similar recommendation
| feed.
|
| I watch YouTube for my interests/hobbies, so this does not
| reflect a "normal" profile (I think). My feed is full of cooking,
| paintings restoration, coding, action movies, history of the
| middle ages in western Europe, hoof trimming (I saw a real cow
| close twice in my life) etc.
|
| I was always wondering if there are people wil a similar feed,
| but never found research on that.
| DiscourseFan wrote:
| There are no "normal" feeds on youtube, everything is
| personalized, a product of the market and one of its benefits.
| BrandoElFollito wrote:
| Yes, I know, but it would be interesting (at least for me) to
| know how interests of people are clustered and interconnected
| - and how much of outliner one is.
| trilomisk wrote:
| Only 5 seconds into the video they show plate amor in the year
| 1236. This is a disappointing start, I kinda like the rest,
| though. They have a wide reach and Alhambra is a good example to
| present a fascinating topic to a wide audience. It would have
| been great, though, to give more historical context.
|
| Water management systems in the middle ages in general were
| incredible sophisticated and widespread. Hydropower was in use
| for basically everything. There are dozens of examples of castle
| wells more than a hundred meters deep, all cities in the late
| middle ages had systems of wells and channels, often
| cooperatively organized. Impressive examples include the water
| supply for breweries in Lubeck, the Stiftsarmstollen in Salzburg
| or the Wasserkunst of Augsburg.
| omgJustTest wrote:
| It would appear the description of the last water feature in the
| video "07:38 Gravity Defying Medieval Technology"
|
| is either under-diagramed or under-explained.
|
| Does someone have a reference for this? I am finding some
| references on wiki about hydrorams or airlift pumps... which make
| much more sense.
| 73kl4453dz wrote:
| I'd guess a continuous flow variation on
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heron%27s_fountain
| elnatro wrote:
| Funnily enough, the "Alhambra Palace" is a hotel that opened at
| the beginning of the XX century, while the "Alhambra" is the
| monument from the medieval age.
|
| The Alhambra is not a palace, well it was actually a castle (the
| meaning of Alhambra is "red castle"). It had a palace inside but
| it was a fortification mainly.
|
| Of course as Boabdil surrended the city of Granada to the
| Catholic Monarchs (Isabel and Fernando) in 1492, the Nazari
| dinasty did not enjoyed the palace many years.
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