[HN Gopher] Notice of Service Closure
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Notice of Service Closure
        
       Author : knuckleheads
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2024-12-27 15:43 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bench.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bench.co)
        
       | knuckleheads wrote:
       | Just got an email from them out of nowhere and they are closing
       | down more or immediately. Very surprising.
        
         | gkedzierski wrote:
         | With how much they were charging and how little service they
         | were providing, I can't comprehend how they've never been able
         | to figure out the business model.
        
       | marcobambini wrote:
       | Does anyone know the reason?
        
       | porter wrote:
       | What are the best alternatives?
        
         | journal wrote:
         | https://github.com/denys-olleik/accounting
         | 
         | Doing my best wish someone would help.
        
           | ibejoeb wrote:
           | Cool. Looking forward to going through it.
           | 
           | >Have CREATE EXTENSION IF NOT EXISTS postgis; installed.
           | 
           | Why is postgis a requirement for an accounting package?
        
             | numbsafari wrote:
             | Sales tax calculations maybe?
        
             | journal wrote:
             | I wanted some features for shipping and receiving and
             | ability to find closest assets. I'll be importing zip codes
             | which have lat lng needs to be stored and queryable.
        
         | cyrusradfar wrote:
         | First off, it's tragic to see this happen to folks. As a
         | business owner, I understand how painful bookkeeping is and
         | having your accountant drop you at the end of the year is
         | remarkably terrible.
         | 
         | Collective.com should be able to help for 2025. I can't speak
         | to 2024 as, frankly, most of the affected aren't sure what the
         | state of the books / export is.
         | 
         | Bias (my brother is a co-founder). My two brothers both use the
         | service for their S-Corps so, like Hair-Club, he's not only the
         | CEO but he's also a customer.
        
           | cyrusradfar wrote:
           | Collective formally responded on LinkedIn with:
           | 
           | We're sorry to hear about Bench shutting down, particularly
           | coming into tax season.
           | 
           | As a company that specializes in solopreneur finance
           | (formation, accounting, tax and payroll) we know that this
           | time of year is stressful as is. If Collective can support or
           | help you and your business in any way, please reach out at
           | http://collective.com, join one of our Q+A sessions, or reach
           | out to me at hooman@collective.com.
           | 
           | If we're a good fit for your business, use the code
           | HERETOHELP to get a discount off of your membership.
           | 
           | We have years of experience working with former Bench
           | customers and our team is working through the weekend to help
           | any small businesses who need urgent help. We're here to
           | support you.
           | 
           | If you're an employee that was impacted, we also have lots of
           | job openings at www.collective.com/careers.
           | 
           | https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hooman_financial-solutions-
           | re...
        
         | claudiogodoyb wrote:
         | I know I mentioned this earlier but trying to help out any way
         | I can to those looking for an alternative to Bench.
         | 
         | Taxfyle is a great tax and accounting solution and have
         | thousands of CPAs in their network. They offer free bookkeeping
         | migration, a free Xero subscription, a dedicated bookkeeper to
         | do your books and professional tax support where they handle
         | your taxes too. Check them out here:
         | https://www.taxfyle.com/bookkeeping
        
       | mgkimsal wrote:
       | FYI: "You will have until Friday, March 7th at 5:00pm ET to
       | download your Bench data from this website."
        
         | laleck wrote:
         | Additionally, they took down all of their accounting articles
         | without notice. They had valuable summaries on various tax
         | topics. Thankfully, Wayback Machine has archives of my
         | bookmarks.
         | 
         | All the more reason to self-host your own archived versions of
         | bookmarks...
        
           | aftbit wrote:
           | Not sure why flagged. Link rot is one of the scourges of the
           | internet.
        
       | ezekg wrote:
       | This is really frustrating. I'll admit their services have been
       | going downhill dramatically (all my books Jan-Nov were still open
       | as of last week and usually they would close subsequent month),
       | but I still think shutting down right before the tax year ends is
       | downright scummy.
       | 
       | What are the alternatives that handle bookkeeping and tax filing?
       | Maybe I should just get a local CPA...
        
         | ibejoeb wrote:
         | Definitely a local CPA. Building that relationship will pay
         | off, even if it's just peace of mind.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | My local CPA had previously guided me to using Bench.
           | "Accountant" and "bookkeeper" are separate disciplines. My
           | accountant manages my tax filings and other complicated
           | transactions. The bookkeeper makes sure all our ledgers
           | balance out.
        
             | ibejoeb wrote:
             | That's a fair assessment. I'd advise hiring a part-time
             | bookkeeper if the transactions are sufficiently numerous or
             | complicated to warrant it. The cpa can handle period
             | closing concerns, trial balances, all that stuff. Many
             | family-sized firms offer this as included, so there might
             | not be much of a difference.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | For others reading along, one huge difference is that
               | bookkeeping tends to be vastly cheaper per hour. It would
               | get very expensive to pay a CPA to transcribe your credit
               | card statement into Quickbooks (or previously Bench, or
               | whatever else you're using for your ledgers).
               | 
               | Bookkeeping is sufficiently complex that I'd personally
               | rather pay someone to do a good job of than muddle
               | through on my own, but it's not rocket science. Perhaps
               | most importantly, they understand accounting jargon. When
               | my CPA asks me to send over the Fnord-Smootson report,
               | and that's not the exact name of a report in my
               | bookkeeping software, I have no freaking idea how to get
               | that to him. A competent bookkeeper asks whether he needs
               | that report frobnicated by date or by time-value and they
               | work out the details.
               | 
               | A good CPA makes rocket science look easy. You typically
               | pay them crazy amounts per hour, but for only a few hours
               | a year. They take those bookkeeping journals and explain
               | your situation to the IRS in a way favorable to your
               | interests.
               | 
               | You want a good bookkeeper _and_ you want a good CPA. If
               | you can get both of those under the same roof, freaking
               | awesome! Your life just got easier and more profitable.
        
               | ibejoeb wrote:
               | Absolutely. I am actually not familiar with Bench, so I'm
               | just talking in general, but I've never heard accounts of
               | good experiences with highly parallel XaaS. Your f&a
               | operation sort of necessarily needs to be close to your
               | operation. It's tough to farm it out. There's a big
               | continuity story in your books.
        
         | foolfoolz wrote:
         | "shutting down right before the tax year ends is downright
         | scummy"
         | 
         | as if a dying business can magically decide to stay open longer
         | and shut down at a more convenient time
        
           | Ylpertnodi wrote:
           | Just like the strategic announcement of bad news....on a
           | Friday.
        
           | thayne wrote:
           | It seems unlikely they didn't know they were going down until
           | just a few days before having to shut down services.
           | 
           | And given that this happens during the holidays, ot wouldn't
           | surprise me if some customers don't find out about this until
           | after the window to extract your data has expired. Or people
           | have to work on fixing this mess who were supposed to be on
           | PTO.
        
           | aftbit wrote:
           | They can though. Dying businesses take time to die. Even if
           | nothing else, they could have decided to shut down _earlier_
           | so that customers would have more time to deal with the
           | fallout. Or they could have decided to shut down _at the same
           | time_ but just messaged about it earlier.
        
         | aphilbert wrote:
         | Local CPA isn't a bad option though it could be pricey. (CPAs
         | don't want to do book keeping either). I think one of the
         | things that makes the bench.co shutdown challenging is that
         | they used "proprietary" software so now you're going to have to
         | migrate soon. Switching to accounting software that CPAs are
         | more likely to be familiar with would be a step in the right
         | direction and working with someone to aid that and help do
         | catch up would be a good idea. I can help with both so that
         | this isn't the catastrophe that it's shaping up to be
        
           | 1123581321 wrote:
           | You can hire a bookkeeper to work with the CPA. I had a
           | freelance freelancer who would keep books up to date, and
           | then turn over the books to the CPA for tax prep and
           | analysis. I estimate the cost was about half as much as if
           | the CPA firm did everything, and everyone was doing what they
           | wanted to do.
        
         | claudiogodoyb wrote:
         | I have a friend who works at Taxfyle and they are a great
         | alternative. They do both taxes and bookkeeping and work with
         | software like Quickbooks and Xero where the pro does everything
         | for you. Definitely worth checking out if you want to check
         | their website: https://www.taxfyle.com/bookkeeping
        
       | aimazon wrote:
       | The company is over a decade old and was not cheap to use, I
       | don't think they could have suddenly run out of money as
       | customers typically pay upfront and are in long term contracts.
       | Could it be staffing issues? Corporate misbehavior? Data loss?
       | Ransomware? Has a member of their team gone rogue?
       | Misappropriation of funds?
       | 
       | We were bench customers until a few months ago, paying thousands
       | of dollars per year for what could only be described as hundreds
       | of dollars worth of service. The service was not very good so
       | moving away was an easy choice but on a per-customer basis they
       | must be making money hand over fist.
       | 
       | I expect we'll find out more eventually, hopefully employees will
       | leak some insight. For now, this is inexplicable.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | I'd guess staffing issues, since my bookkeeper would change
         | every month. I'm still not sure how they couldn't afford to
         | hire better staff, though. You're right that it could be
         | something nefarious.
         | 
         | Where did you move to?
        
         | porter wrote:
         | what service did you move to?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Why do you think it wasn't possible for them to run out of
         | money? It's not like a 10 year old business is immune to
         | failure.
         | 
         | The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
        
           | aimazon wrote:
           | Anything is possible and running out of money is the most
           | probable explanation but it seems so hard for this type of
           | business to get itself into this type of situation. Customers
           | pay thousands of dollars per year, usually upfront. That's
           | the type of revenue predictability that most of us would love
           | for our businesses because it makes forecasting so much
           | easier. They must have known months ago that they were
           | running out of money. Failing to become sustainable and going
           | through layoffs is one thing, shutting down overnight with
           | zero warning is another. But yes, you're probably right, it's
           | just hard to imagine how they could have imploded like this.
        
             | BehindBlueEyes wrote:
             | And yet, it's as simple as money ran out. They never turned
             | a profit, investors ran out, the last round of funding was
             | a loan with strings attached that led to a bunch of cost
             | cutting and other poor decisions that explain the poor
             | service quality.
             | 
             | A few staff guessed it might close 3 weeks ago at best
             | though everything was very uncertain, but most of the
             | accountants probably didn't see this coming either.
             | 
             | source: I know a few former employees.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | There's an accountant shortage, so I imagine it wasn't
               | hard for those folks to prepare to bail, if they did.
        
       | runako wrote:
       | $60m Series C 3.5 years ago. My hypothesis is they shut it down
       | when they were unable to turn it into a rocketship.
        
       | euph0ria wrote:
       | We just moved to CleerTax. Not sure if they are good yet but
       | pretty responsive.
        
       | yolo2122 wrote:
       | Does shutting down mean bankruptcy? My businesses will have real
       | damages from this - both the money that has been paid to bench
       | all year for now no output of annual books/a financial summary as
       | well as the cost of now having to pay to redo my 2024 books.
        
         | ABS wrote:
         | on social media some employees are saying it's insolvent
        
       | mdlm wrote:
       | Got the same email. Totally shocking.
        
       | digitcatphd wrote:
       | I just fired my "CPA" and am using Claude. Sick of paying for bad
       | advice and mistakes.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | How can Claude file your taxes for you? And without
         | hallucinations? Seems dangerous tbh
        
       | benchdude444 wrote:
       | I havent been at Bench for over 6 years but it's always been a
       | business on the verge of failure. The main issue was just the
       | schizophrenic strategy that was being employed. On one hand you
       | have a software company with useful tools and services to
       | automate bookeeping. On the other you had a division of
       | bookeepers that would do a lot of the manual / refinement work.
       | These tasks are at odds with one another. If you automate things
       | you remove power from the teams who are incentivized to scale
       | their org charts. With LLMs, Bench should have been positioned to
       | own this space entirely, and offer a superior or equivalent
       | product with much better margins. Bur they decided to become a
       | services company and not a technology company.
       | 
       | All I can take away from it is a few lessons, because this is a
       | pretty awful outcome for almost every party.
        
       | carloshdx wrote:
       | Im based here in the US, and unfortunately i signed up yesterday
       | after learning about the bookkeeping special...for a small
       | business $1005 is alot...Square (my bank) basically said they
       | cant do anything about it since i autho the payment...Any
       | suggestions?
        
         | deepsun wrote:
         | Ask them for prorated refund. You paid for a service and didn't
         | receive it.
        
         | solidgiant wrote:
         | I signed up two weeks ago and they made me sign an ACH
         | agreement with Capchase. Did you sign with capchase?
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be filing a fraud complaint. They had
         | to have known this yesterday but still sold you a service. At
         | least, that's the argument I'd be making, and I doubt the Bench
         | team will have the bandwidth to dispute complaints right now.
        
       | nervous_jessica wrote:
       | No mention of refunds for unused months
        
         | ABS wrote:
         | on social media employees are saying it's insolvent so no
         | refunds :-(
        
           | Amfy wrote:
           | link please
           | 
           | Edit, found it myself: https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/co
           | mments/1hnhoxq/comment...
        
       | wdaher wrote:
       | If you're a tech startup and previously used Bench, I'd strongly
       | encourage you to check out Pilot.com - we work with literally
       | thousands of startups. (Disclaimer: I'm one of the founders.)
        
         | porter wrote:
         | Pilot looks very expensive!
        
           | aimazon wrote:
           | I guess we now know that the price of a bookkeeping and tax
           | preparation service that won't shut down without warning is
           | the 2x pilot are charging of what bench were charging.
        
             | porter wrote:
             | You don't know they won't shut down. And how does this
             | compare to a local accounting firm?
        
               | wdaher wrote:
               | Price should be comparable to a high-quality local
               | provider, but if that's not what you're seeing, I'd love
               | to know that.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | _And how does this compare to a local accounting firm?_
               | 
               | Hint: ask the salesman what happens in the event of an
               | IRS audit. A good local CPA will go to the wall for you.
               | Will the service you're considering do the same?
        
           | santoshalper wrote:
           | Your bookkeeping service shutting down with no notice over
           | the holidays is not cheap either, my friend. Some things are
           | worth paying for.
        
         | bagelss wrote:
         | I'm interested in migrating over to Pilot. How is the migration
         | process from bench? It seems we can do a data export in a few
         | days. Can pilot do 2024 catch up?
        
           | wdaher wrote:
           | We have a number of folks who have switched from Bench, and
           | as you can imagine there's enough volume here that it's worth
           | building some bespoke stuff for this.
           | 
           | And yes, we can do 2024 catch-up work.
           | 
           | (waseem@pilot.com if folks have any specific questions)
        
         | Nelkins wrote:
         | Do you service single member LLCs/S Corps?
        
         | cj wrote:
         | Genuine question: why did you raise $100 million Series C for a
         | bookkeeping company? I'm a Pilot customer, and my heart dropped
         | when I saw your funding announcement on the homepage a while
         | back.
        
         | dustingetz wrote:
         | let's hear your metrics on the issues of timeliness, accuracy,
         | cost and bookkeeper churn that Bench faced?
        
         | adam_gyroscope wrote:
         | Happy pilot customer at both my startups (gyroscope & bit.io),
         | and will be using them again for my third.
        
       | deepsun wrote:
       | I've heard they claimed to have SOC 2 security compliance, but
       | refused to prove it (show the SOC2 report to customers) -- that's
       | really fishy.
        
         | BehindBlueEyes wrote:
         | They had that cert for the last ~3 years and were audited
         | yearly and had a standard package to share with clients so
         | doubt there's much to this rumor
        
           | deepsun wrote:
           | Nope, just confirmed, they refused to share SOC2 Report with
           | their paying customers.
        
             | CoastalCoder wrote:
             | Can someone explain why potential customers would put up
             | with this?
             | 
             | I'd think that the _last_ thing a company wants to do is
             | hire an bookkeeping company that seems shady.
        
       | pplante wrote:
       | Bench was a terrible service in my experience. I used it for one
       | of my startups a few years ago. I personally invested a lot into
       | said start-up. I checked my books and everything seemed ok.
       | Eventually I found that they had hidden my Gusto payroll line
       | items from view and they were no longer taken into consideration
       | in my books. This led to a $300k shortfall from where I thought I
       | was vs reality. Their team just shrugged when I brought the issue
       | to their attention. The impact was immediate layoffs affecting
       | real people who depended on me.
       | 
       | Sure ultimately everything falls upon me the founder. But
       | something so common as GUSTO payroll should never be
       | miscategorized and hidden from view.
        
         | willcipriano wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | pplante wrote:
           | What gave you that impression? I always consulted my
           | financials when making decisions. Unfortunately the books
           | were wrong and I made incorrect choices from that bad data.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | When I go over my household budget I'd notice if I wasn't
             | paying my mortgage even if someone deleted it from my
             | spreadsheet. It's important enough to me that it's front of
             | mind when I'm thinking about money. I expect to see it on
             | the list. I'd look for it if it wasn't there. Salaries are
             | apparently not that big of a deal in the same way so asking
             | for a higher one seems like a good idea.
        
             | Projectiboga wrote:
             | This is why you have to do a quick back of the envelope go
             | over of the big numbers and make sure they are at least
             | close. Loosing track of $300K is partly your fault. The
             | scale means you have to be looking at it as part of a big
             | picture summary uncontaminated by technology. With Nuclear
             | Treaties it is called "Trust but Verify" and is applicable
             | to business cash flows. You have to be skeptical of the
             | automated numbers that employees touch as there can be
             | either error or worse fraud.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | Generally good advice in general, $10-20k is nothing to even
           | a small business but is probably a lot to you. It's not often
           | an asymmetry works out in the employees favor.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | " _Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation
           | of what someone says, not a weaker one that 's easier to
           | criticize. Assume good faith._"
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
         | MichaelZuo wrote:
         | How could this kind of 'hiding' comply with GAAP standards in
         | any scenario?
         | 
         | What sort of accounting books were being prepared where such a
         | function is even needed?
        
           | cj wrote:
           | When I was using Bench, they were only doing cash accounting
           | (not GAAP). We had to switch to a different service when we
           | switched over to accrual accounting.
        
       | porter wrote:
       | Bench just forced me to switch to an annual contract a few days
       | ago too. What a bunch of crooks.
        
         | solidgiant wrote:
         | Me too, and signed with Capchase. What are you looking to do?
         | I'm trying to find someone at capchase, but not finding
         | anyone...
        
           | beibeiq wrote:
           | I would LinkedIn DM Capchase folks with support or customer
           | service titles.
        
         | Schiendelman wrote:
         | Wait a minute, they pushed you into an annual contract? And now
         | that they aren't going to perform their end of the contract?
         | 
         | This is fascinating. That smells like actual fraud on their
         | part.
        
           | ttul wrote:
           | I'm sure all of this will be played out in spectacular
           | fashion in the courts of British Columbia in the coming
           | months. Directors in BC are liable for unpaid wages to
           | employees. No doubt they pulled the rug just in time to
           | ensure people got their statutory severance. But beyond that,
           | anyone hoping for more will have to get in a long line behind
           | secured creditors. Man this sucks.
        
         | blakebilliet wrote:
         | I'd be shocked if you didn't get reimbursed. But if you don't,
         | let me know and Afino might be able to mitigate a portion of
         | your losses with a friendly discount. That just ain't right.
        
       | lindsi wrote:
       | This is so fucked up**. I have an annual account and they have
       | not done my books since July and now this... An no refunds?!
        
       | Nelkins wrote:
       | This is terrible. I paid them ~$4500 to do all my taxes and book
       | keeping (just started my business this past June). What recourse
       | do I have to get that money back?
        
         | Nelkins wrote:
         | Also allegedly they were supposed to file an S Corp election.
         | I've emailed them, but have no idea if I'll find out if it was
         | actually sent.
        
         | mt1973 wrote:
         | same here. and my spouse signed up for the year to get taxes
         | done quickly because we had an issue with 2023 -- and he hated
         | them. I have used them for years. now I'm just at a loss. I
         | don't know how to get money back. I'm sick.
        
       | bagelss wrote:
       | Does anyone have experience with Kick.co? It seems more self-
       | managed with AI. I don't want to migrate to another company
       | that's just going to close again despite being well funded.
       | 
       | 7 years with bench and just renewed the annual plan last month.
       | Seems like it's unlikely we'll see any refund for the 11 months
       | remaining. Very frustrating to have to mirage somewhere else and
       | pay for 2024 catch up.
        
       | jseibert wrote:
       | Truly crazy news and timing for this to happen over the holidays.
       | 
       | I'm the founder/CEO of Digits - if you're a tech startup on
       | Bench, we'd love to work together. Reach out to vip@digits.com
       | and we'll extend our friends/family discount and make this as
       | painless for you as possible.
        
         | Nelkins wrote:
         | Do you do personal tax returns in addition to business taxes as
         | part of a package?
        
           | beibeiq wrote:
           | Are you a single member LLC? Digits is focused on C Corps
           | right now and for C Corps we can offer personal tax returns.
           | Fill out this form: https://tinyurl.com/digits-bench here.
           | Our team is fully focused on helping Bench customers through
           | the rest of the holidays!
        
             | Nelkins wrote:
             | Single member LLC, so I don't think Digits is the right fit
             | for me at the moment. Thanks for taking the time to
             | respond.
        
               | claudiogodoyb wrote:
               | I have a friend who works at Taxfyle and they cater to
               | single-member LLCs and newly formed businesses. They seem
               | like a great fit for you if you need taxes and
               | bookkeeping done. Check out their website:
               | https://www.taxfyle.com/bookkeeping
        
       | arjawn wrote:
       | Hey, Arjun here, CEO of doola (Business-in-a-Box for LLCs) (YC
       | S20)
       | 
       | If you are a solopreneur or run an Ecom business and are looking
       | for support with dedicated bookkeeping (including a human
       | bookkeeper), check out https://www.doola.com/bookkeeping/
       | 
       | Happy to support anyone looking for help with bookkeeping +
       | business tax filings for their business going into the new year
       | (we support Non-US tax filings as well if you are a Non-US
       | founder)
        
         | bagelss wrote:
         | I'm interested in migrating over. We have one account in GBP
         | currency, can you handle this too? It's with wise.com. Do you
         | over 2024 catch up too?
        
           | arjawn wrote:
           | Hey we don't have multi-currency support (yet) but it's on
           | the roadmap
           | 
           | And we can help with 2024 catchup
           | 
           | You can book a free demo here, excited to help if we can:
           | https://www.doola.com/bookkeeping/book-a-demo/
        
       | dceddia wrote:
       | Wow, what a shock. I cancelled my account just days before the
       | annual renewal earlier this month. I feel for all of the small
       | businesses this is going to hurt. The service had been getting
       | worse for an while and the last straw was when they sent an email
       | saying the year-end financial report would be ready by _April
       | 10th_ , 5 days before the tax deadline.
       | 
       | I'm gonna have a go with plain text accounting for the
       | bookkeeping for a bit. Looking at what Bench was doing, and my
       | books in general not being too complicated I think it'll be fine,
       | maybe better actually because I'll have a closer eye on things.
       | Still using a CPA to file taxes though.
        
       | Nelkins wrote:
       | The fact that they are recommending Kick makes me view that
       | company with suspicion. This whole thing is really leaving a bad
       | taste in my mouth.
        
         | jsnyoung wrote:
         | exactly.
        
         | bagelss wrote:
         | Totally agree. There is no contact page or reviews online for
         | kick. I can't afford to get into this mess again.
        
         | conradwa wrote:
         | We've onboarded a significant number of folks from Bench onto
         | Kick before this happened, so this may have been why were were
         | mentioned.
         | 
         | Working fast right now to try to provide resources and help
         | Bench users migrate and will be sharing updates here:
         | https://x.co/kickfinance
        
           | Nelkins wrote:
           | Gotcha, thanks for that. I'm sure you're a solid company with
           | happy users.
           | 
           | BTW, that link to your X profile returns a 404. It should be
           | https://x.com/kickfinance .
        
       | jsnyoung wrote:
       | You guys are lucky. I didn't even get an e-mail. I just found out
       | I couldn't login and happened across the website. So what are the
       | chances of getting any kind of refund for the services I paid for
       | and will not receive?
        
         | Networkplumber wrote:
         | I'm wondering the same thing. I paid for Bench through
         | Freshbooks, who said they'll be offering refunds for services
         | not rendered. If they didn't get back to me with this, I was
         | going to dispute the charge with my credit card company. If you
         | paid by CC, you could try that.
        
       | mjr00 wrote:
       | Shocking, but not terribly surprising from a business
       | perspective... From everyone I know who's worked there, the
       | operation was just a thinly veiled wrapper around human
       | accountants. The plan for profitability was that they'd
       | eventually automate the human part away, but eventually never
       | came.
       | 
       | My condolences to the employees who now have a stressful new
       | year.
        
         | Spivak wrote:
         | > The plan for profitability was that they'd eventually
         | automate the human part away, but eventually never came.
         | 
         | Every. Damn. Time. I've fought and lost this battle at so many
         | companies with directors and executives who were genuinely
         | completely delusional about how much of a human process could
         | be automated.
         | 
         | It's always the tasks that are easy and don't take up much
         | time. If you end up solving one of the genuinely hard problems
         | then you should just pivot to packaging and selling that as
         | your business.
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | Wow. We need an alternative to Intuit.
        
       | wilkystyle wrote:
       | Off topic, but what is going on with the comments in this
       | discussion? Seems like a ton of new accounts, and strange
       | behavior like commenting gibberish or exact same comment text
       | within minutes of each other, for example:
       | strattonoak 39 minutes ago | prev | next [-]              The no
       | access to data smells like a ransomware event. Why is data not
       | available to export out and everything is taken down and not
       | accessible? Seems like it's way more work to take down access
       | that to leave it up?                      theoak 40 minutes ago |
       | prev | next [-]              The no access to data smells like a
       | ransomware event. Why is data not available to export out and
       | everything is taken down and not accessible? Seems like it's way
       | more work to take down access that to leave it up?
        
         | LordDragonfang wrote:
         | So: that specific comment was posted _three_ times, by accounts
         | named strattonoakmont, strattonoak, and theoak. I googled the
         | first and got this wikipedia page:
         | 
         | > Stratton Oakmont, Inc. was a Long Island, New York, over-the-
         | counter brokerage house founded in 1989 by Jordan Belfort and
         | Danny Porush. It defrauded many shareholders, leading to the
         | arrest and incarceration of several executives and the closing
         | of the firm in 1996.
         | 
         | It's the company from the Wolf of Wall street.
        
         | jsnell wrote:
         | My guess is that this page is ranking very high for the kind of
         | search anyone would use for finding out more about the closure.
         | 
         | So disgruntled customers are finding the page and complain,
         | competitors are finding the page to use for lead generation.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Yes, this seems to be exactly what happened.
           | 
           | (But the specific accounts mentioned by the GP were a bit of
           | a special case.)
        
       | conradwa wrote:
       | I can't imagine the frustration you're going through if you're a
       | Bench user.
       | 
       | Paying for a service and not getting what you expect, especially
       | when it comes to your taxes is no joke.
       | 
       | Instead of having to start from scratch, our team at Kick is
       | moved quickly to build these resources to help prior Bench
       | customers:
       | 
       | 1. Free Bench migration
       | 
       | 2. Free 2024 Bookkeeping review calls
       | 
       | 3. Free Daily Live Q&As (coming soon)
       | 
       | We're moving fast and sharing additional resources and updates in
       | real time here:
       | 
       | - https://kick.co/bench
       | 
       | - https://x.com/kickfinance
       | 
       | Other resources on the way include a Tax Extension Guide and
       | Accountant Directory to make sure folks get a soft landing is
       | this difficult time.
       | 
       | If you're running into issues, my email me at conrad@kick.co and
       | I'll do the best I can to route you to the right place.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | So you're planning on offering tax filings, or just
         | recommendations? tbh this should have been included in the
         | notice because I wrote y'all off immediately because taxes was
         | the main pain point Bench solved for me (electing to file as an
         | S-Corp).
        
           | claudiogodoyb wrote:
           | A friend of mine mentioned Taxfyle as an alternative to
           | Bench. They offer free bookkeeping migration, a free Xero
           | subscription, dedicated bookkeeper to do your books and
           | professional tax support where they handle your taxes too.
           | They seem like a good fit for you! Check them out here:
           | https://www.taxfyle.com/
        
         | yolo2122 wrote:
         | Is Kick owned by, affiliated with, or invested in by Bench in
         | any way?
         | 
         | Also are any of the C-Level execs from Bench involved in Kick
         | in any way?
        
           | santoshalper wrote:
           | This would be a great question to answer and would provide a
           | lot of peace of mind.
        
           | conradwa wrote:
           | Kick is not affiliated with Bench in any way. We've onboarded
           | a significant number of customers from Bench onto Kick before
           | this happened, so this may have been why were were mentioned.
           | 
           | We're working fast right now to try to provide resources and
           | help Bench users migrate and will be sharing updates here:
           | https://x.co/kickfinance
        
             | yolo2122 wrote:
             | Thanks Conrad however in the interest of clarity +
             | transparency can you add some insight/details into how/why
             | this statement came about in both the shut down email
             | customers got today + what is currently posted on the
             | Bench.co page?
             | 
             | "For continued support with your bookkeeping, we recommend
             | exploring Kick, a modern accounting software, which has
             | created an exclusive offer to handle your ongoing needs:
             | kick.co/bench."
             | 
             | Having an "exclusive offer" listed in the initial closure
             | communication/announcement + you having a landing page
             | ready to go sounds like there was more to Bench just
             | happening to mention Kick because your company has
             | "onboarded a significant number of customers from Bench
             | onto Kick before this happened"...
        
               | ocdtrekkie wrote:
               | Hopefully you'll get an answer from Conrad, but the
               | landing page does not mention the shutdown, so I would
               | point out when I was comparison shopping something else
               | recently, their website had dedicated pages to why you
               | should choose them over each major competitor, and a
               | switching discount is also not uncommon.
               | 
               | It's entirely possible this landing page is Kick's
               | competitive offer, and Bench linked to it because it
               | offers all the people they just screwed over by
               | collapsing a discount.
        
               | yolo2122 wrote:
               | Good point! I like what I see so far in Kick. It's just
               | given the level of pain Bench has just caused me, my
               | businesses, and a couple very unlucky employees in my
               | office + the financial cost = I have to make super duper
               | sure Kick is not related to/involved with Bench in any
               | way shape or form.
               | 
               | If they asked Kick to be listed as an alternative in the
               | closure email or asked them to do a discount nbd I have
               | no issue there. I just want the full story given Bench
               | events.
        
       | solidgiant wrote:
       | I was just sold bench.co for my three businesses and the sales
       | person Luc Lewarne made me sign a payment agreement with
       | Capchase. The agreement states that I still owe Capchase the full
       | amount for a year, even if Bench.co shuts down...
       | 
       | Does anyone have any contacts or experience with Capchase? I
       | never even started my service, which was supposed to begin
       | January 1st, 2025 and now I will have to pay out 12 months to
       | Capchase?!?!
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | I don't know the dollar figure here and I would hope Capchase
         | is a company that will value their reputation over screwing you
         | on that dollar figure, but I would definitely question why you
         | signed an agreement to pay for a product even if that product
         | is not deliverable. One of the primary value adds to the
         | middleman in a transaction is generally that they take on some
         | of the risk.
        
         | ensignavenger wrote:
         | Well in hindsight, that was a silly thing to do...
         | 
         | First step- make sure you have read and understand your
         | contract. Is there a cancellation period? What state laws may
         | apply (Some states a allow a cooling off period, but often this
         | applies only to consumer contracts, not B2B).
         | 
         | Second, contact Capchase via email and see if they will will
         | allow you out of the contract "peacefully". If they are smart,
         | they will so "sure, no problem, of course" and cancel the
         | contract. If not, name and shame them everywhere you have an
         | audience.
         | 
         | Third, if that doesn't work, you can either proactively sue
         | them to cancel the contract, or just don't pay them and let
         | them decide whether or not to sue you. Doing the latter may
         | result in a negative report on your business credit.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | > _I was just sold bench.co [...] made me sign a payment
         | agreement with Capchase. The agreement states that I still owe
         | Capchase the full amount for a year, even if Bench.co shuts
         | down..._
         | 
         | I might ask a lawyer if that looks like fraud. (And then
         | wouldn't be surprised if the lawyer can quickly make it like
         | the sale never happened, other than your time wasted, and the
         | lawyer fees.)
         | 
         | Or maybe ask your state AG's office if that looks like fraud.
         | 
         | (Edit: I mean the appearance that Bench.co was entering
         | contracts to provide service for a period, knowing that they
         | probably wouldn't provide that service, and, further,
         | attempting to obligate you to pay for service for the entire
         | period anyway. Or something like that. I'm not a lawyer, so I'd
         | ask one.)
        
           | benatkin wrote:
           | Do account execs get a heads up about a shutdown? If not,
           | maybe there wasn't a good reason to mention the account exec
           | by name here.
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | Which is part of why I didn't put the name in. The essence
             | was that the _company_ might have signed contracts that
             | they knew they wouldn 't fulfill.
             | 
             | Of course, salespeople should have professional reputations
             | (e.g., for honesty, or for dishonesty). But don't let them
             | be a scapegoat for the more likely real culprit or bigger
             | fish.
        
             | thih9 wrote:
             | Agreed. Also, even if they did get a heads up, hn is not
             | the place to resolve this kind of dispute. Emailing them,
             | or a lawyer sounds more productive.
             | 
             | Shaming companies publicly is fine; shaming individual
             | workers and posting personal data is bad taste to say the
             | least.
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | Wouldn't "you have to pay even if we don't deliver the product
         | you're buying" be considered unconscionable?
        
           | ShakataGaNai wrote:
           | Yea. That doesn't sound right. I'd say Op should talk to a
           | lawyer ASAP.
           | 
           | I mean, bad to agree to in the first place, but it doesn't
           | seem like a contract where the other party is non-performant,
           | should be enforceable.
        
           | caseyohara wrote:
           | I'm guessing Capchase is a financier of sorts. Capchase pays
           | Bench for the full term up front, then the customer pays
           | Capchase in monthly increments.
           | 
           | So Capchase is delivering _their_ product, the financing.
           | Which is why there would be a clause that the customer still
           | owes Capchase even if Bench closes; Capchase has already paid
           | Bench and wants to be made whole.
        
             | runako wrote:
             | This is how I read it as well. I hope OP got a significant
             | discount on Bench service in exchange for this kind of
             | agreement.
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | > I was just sold bench.co for my three businesses and the
         | sales person Luc Lewarne made me sign a payment agreement with
         | Capchase.
         | 
         | I'm sorry for the troubles you had, but is it really fair to
         | say the salesman _made_ you sign an agreement?
        
         | lucatbench wrote:
         | Solidgiant, this is Luc Lewarne. I assure you that I am just as
         | shocked as you are. I woke up today, along with my colleagues,
         | to an email telling us that Bench was insolvent, and that all
         | operations and employment would cease effective immediately. I
         | know what it is like to be mislead in a buying process - it
         | feels terrible. I want to let you know, person to person, that
         | I had no bad intentions or knowledge of Bench's future when I
         | sold you our services. As for Capchase, I'm pretty sure they
         | haven't processed a payment from you yet, which means they
         | haven't sent us any funds. If you contact them, you should be
         | able to get out of it.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | Please do not name individual workers, they were likely unaware
         | and no longer work there.
         | 
         | Shaming companies is fine, shaming individual workers is not;
         | usually they are powerless, likely here too.
        
       | acaloiar wrote:
       | > We know this news is abrupt and may cause disruption, so we're
       | committed to helping Bench customers navigate through the
       | transition.
       | 
       | No, you're not. The minimum for commitment is a longer notice.
        
       | ssousa666 wrote:
       | If any former Bench customers are looking for an alternative,
       | check out https://www.usehaven.com (not my company, but I've
       | worked with the founders in the past). Don't take my word for it
       | - ask around and see how great their reputation is.
        
       | ottoaj wrote:
       | my wife's company was literally talking to bench support few days
       | ago for her last year LLC & personal taxes that they have been
       | delaying for months. this new is crazy.
       | 
       | Anyone looking help with only LLC & personal takes then just
       | email me here and we'll help you out: vip@joinotto.com
        
       | yolo2122 wrote:
       | Founder/Former CEO Ian Crosby's post about the Bench closure:
       | 
       | https://x.com/ianwcrosby/status/1872724231999381790
        
         | davidcbc wrote:
         | Is there a version readable for people without twitter
         | accounts?
        
           | tarr11 wrote:
           | https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1872724231999381790.html
        
       | blakebilliet wrote:
       | Hey everybody -- I'm the founder and CEO of Afino. We offer all
       | of the same services as Bench and ready to help any founder
       | affected by this sudden shutdown.
       | 
       | Check out our services on our site (www.afino.ai) and book a
       | priority meeting to talk to me and my team
       | (https://app.reclaim.ai/m/afino/priority-intro)
        
         | runako wrote:
         | Awesome. Since you're here, could you share pricing? I know it
         | may vary, but since you are offering to bring on Bench
         | customers perhaps you could share pricing for similar service
         | as Bench's offerings?
        
           | blakebilliet wrote:
           | You're right that it varies a lot but we're priced
           | competitively with all of our peers. I haven't seen a quote
           | that we can't beat. We're playing a long game here and aren't
           | going to lose a good customer on price.
           | 
           | Bookkeeping starts at $500/mo, Fed + State Taxes at $2,400.
           | We do a long list of FP&A and fractional CFO services as
           | needed. We get our prospects a detailed quote from just a
           | 30-min call.
        
       | paragkochar wrote:
       | m,
        
       | paragkochar wrote:
       | Hey Everybody - I'm founder of http://Zinance.io - Most founder
       | friendly Bookkeeping, Taxation and finance services for startups
       | and SMB. We have most proactive and experienced team to take
       | finance off your plate completely.
       | 
       | I would love to help you navigate current situation with Bench.
       | I'm here if need help - https://cal.com/zinance.io/h
        
       | bolshchikov wrote:
       | CEO of Finaloop (real-time financial solution) just offered a
       | migration package and 75% off.
       | 
       | https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-7278469880629067776-...
        
       | michliao wrote:
       | If you're a ecommerce brand, we specialize in ecomm bookkeeping
       | and can get you migrated and caught up for 2024 immediately.
       | 
       | DayZero - ondayzero.com - or send me an email
       | michelle@ondayzero.com. Always happy to be a resource
        
       | jakecarpenter wrote:
       | Seems like my experience may not have been typical. I used Bench
       | from 19-23 for a startup and always felt like I was getting great
       | service. I agree that they were a bit expensive, but the
       | financials passed external reviews and always made my investors
       | happy.
       | 
       | It is a shame to see them closing down this way, awful timing and
       | awful treatment of their customers. As a founder, you need to
       | fully understand your financials, but you should have a pro
       | managing the day-to-day and even month-to-month.
        
       | MayowaO wrote:
       | Come to factsfinancegroup.com
       | 
       | Real people.
       | 
       | Won't bore you with technical talk, your books will simply be
       | done. You will be tax ready and tax efficient.
       | 
       | Last, but not least, you will have everything you need to grow at
       | your fingertips.
       | 
       | We simply want 100 clients.
       | 
       | We'll focus on 100 of you and continue to the moon together.
        
       | akyang wrote:
       | I know there are already several founders of startup accounting
       | companies in this thread, but just want to throw another option
       | into the mix since my friend started it and there's a free
       | 3-months deal: https://www.prometryx.com
       | 
       | Looks like the pricing is pretty reasonable and they use QBO as
       | the general ledger software, so data's not locked into some
       | random platform. He told me to share and can also email directly
       | at hello@prometryx.com to get a quote.
        
       | pkkkzip wrote:
       | hmmm another "unicorn" from vancouver that bites the dust, i
       | remember one with an owl as mascot logo can't recall what they
       | did or their names but many ppl from vancouver mentioned it while
       | ago.
       | 
       | I wonder why that place can't compete with American cities, i
       | think even Toronto /Montreal is more successful than Vancouver.
       | 
       | for one the low salary must be demoralizing on top of being one
       | of the most expensive cities in the world.
       | 
       | have there been notable canadian startup unicorn that turned IPO
       | or major acquisition (100x ROI and up?) other than Shopify?
       | 
       | seems like nobody can really compete with America when it comes
       | to creating IPOs and billionaires.
        
       | davidkopf wrote:
       | I'm sorry for all those affected by the Bench Accounting
       | shutdown. If any of you are solopreneurs, feel free to reach out
       | to my friend Nate at Cookie Finance. They are a highly trusted
       | accounting platform (US based) that provides full-service
       | accounting/tax. Nate also shared with me that they've already
       | worked with a lot of former Bench clients.
       | 
       | His contact info is below.
       | 
       | Nate Coughran info@cookiefinance.co
        
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