[HN Gopher] Ugandan runner due to arrive in London after 516 day...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ugandan runner due to arrive in London after 516 days, 7,700 miles
       on the road
        
       Author : thunderbong
       Score  : 251 points
       Date   : 2024-12-23 14:08 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | cjbayliss wrote:
       | Having to deal with police four times a day on average on the
       | part of the journey through Croatia is insane. I'd have given up
       | and flown to the next country.
        
         | gerdesj wrote:
         | Thankfully our hero is made of sterner stuff than either you or
         | me:
         | 
         | "On other occasions, however, he almost packed it in. In
         | Uganda, his one-man support crew resigned, leaving him without
         | a support vehicle or help at a time when his funding for the
         | run was almost exhausted. To compound matters, all routes ahead
         | involved either conflict or extreme risk."
        
           | ptspts wrote:
           | Why would someone start this long run without enough funding
           | secured for the whole length?
        
         | hipadev23 wrote:
         | Why did you have so many issues in Croatia? Traffic police and
         | ID checkpoints?
        
           | noman-land wrote:
           | "The police stopped me at least four times a day. Sometimes,
           | I caught locals taking photos of me and reporting me to the
           | police," he said.
        
         | alwa wrote:
         | It's pretty wild, although if I were Mr. Kato I might be
         | somewhat more grumpy about being jailed for 3 weeks in South
         | Sudan, apparently on the authorities' opinion that their
         | immigration laws required ministry approval for his run [0].
         | 
         | I have to say I don't find myself too surprised that anybody
         | non-local doing extreme-long-distance running through insular
         | Croatian towns might arouse the interest of the local
         | constabularies--and I imagine the runner being a Ugandan guy
         | would be an especially surprising sight to people in Croatia
         | (91% Croat, 3.2% Serb, officially recognize 22 other ethnic
         | minorities, none of them from Africa) [1]. Which I suppose is
         | the point he was trying to raise.
         | 
         | What an astonishing extreme of human endeavor.
         | 
         | [0] https://archive.is/4T13g [1]
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Croatia#:~:t...
        
           | aprilthird2021 wrote:
           | > I have to say I don't find myself too surprised that
           | anybody doing extreme-long-distance running through insular
           | Croatian towns might arouse the interest of the local
           | constabularies
           | 
           | I don't live in Europe, but just help me out, why call the
           | cops on a guy running down the road, in running gear, even if
           | he's an ethnicity you rarely ever see?
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | exactly this, and add to that, the demographics are similar
             | in all eastern european countries. so what's special about
             | croatia? https://brilliantmaps.com/european-black-
             | population-by-count...
             | 
             | after reading the article i found the links to other
             | articles on the guardian site linked to this:
             | https://www.theguardian.com/global-
             | development/2024/oct/10/p... "Croatian police accused of
             | burning asylum seekers' phones and passports". the problem
             | seems to be more than just never having seen a black
             | person.
        
               | grujicd wrote:
               | > so what's special about croatia
               | 
               | To add relevant context Croatia is at the edge of the
               | Schengen zone. On the other side of the border are Serbia
               | and Bosnia with less strict border controls and visa
               | rules, so this is one of the roads for illegal immigrants
               | to reach rich western countries. This and Hungarian
               | borders are what's between them and their goals. Connect
               | that with the fact that Croatia doesn't have non-white
               | minorities, there were probably zero cases before this of
               | black person wondering down the roads who was not an
               | illegal migrant.
        
               | throw73848788 wrote:
               | Passport are also needed for deportation. I can not see
               | any reason, why police would burn their documents. It
               | creates a lot of extra paperwork and headaches.
               | 
               | Destroying passports is a normal practice for illegal
               | immigrants. It extends their stay in EU by several years.
               | Most countries are considered safe, and it is hard to
               | claim you are from Syria with Egyptian passport.
        
               | mr_toad wrote:
               | The police aren't burning passports because it's
               | procedure, or even legal. It makes it harder for asylum
               | seekers to prove where they're from.
        
             | poincaredisk wrote:
             | I'm not from Croatia, but for context
             | 
             | >ethnicity you rarely ever see?
             | 
             | Rarely... I was 20 years old when I first saw a black
             | person in real life. This was in a center of a big city,
             | and it surprised me so much that I remember exactly where
             | and when it was.
             | 
             | Nowadays times have changed and it's not that rare in my
             | country - at least in big cities. But I imagine a Croatian
             | farmer seeing a black person - running! - and calling the
             | police to investigate what the hell is going on.
        
               | aprilthird2021 wrote:
               | > But I imagine a Croatian farmer seeing a black person -
               | running! - and calling the police to investigate what the
               | hell is going on.
               | 
               | So is this common? I would not call the police
               | immediately among seeing something odd or unusual that
               | isn't threatening...
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | You wouldn't, but someone would. Cops get called all the
               | time for out-of-the-ordinary things that you'd not even
               | think of calling for.
               | 
               | Power failures, parked cars, loose animals, strange kids,
               | balloons, weather, etc.
        
               | dudeinjapan wrote:
               | For a laugh I used to read the local paper which
               | published a log of police calls, they were along the
               | lines of "A dead racoon was reported on Oxbow Rd. When
               | officers investigated they found it was a hat."
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | Loose animals can be a danger to traffic, and the police
               | should be called.
               | 
               | I've done this when a horse had escaped from a field at
               | the edge of a village.
        
               | k1kingy wrote:
               | And as unfortunate as it is, some people see black people
               | running in their neighborhood as a danger to society and
               | will call the police (or in some cases will just hunt
               | them down and kill the person themselves
               | https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/federal-judge-sentences-
               | three...)
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | This is schengen area border country, dealing with tons
               | of smuggled immigrants, most of which are coming from
               | Africa. While having from 0 to next to 0 local population
               | of same/similar ethnicities.
               | 
               | First thing to many occur to especially older folks
               | watching news is illegal immigrant running ie from busted
               | police operation, not some epic runner. They definitely
               | dont recognize running sportswear.
        
               | aprilthird2021 wrote:
               | I mean, that is literally racism, the assumption about
               | the man, based on his race, is that he is an illegal
               | immigrant
        
               | briandear wrote:
               | In Spain people call the cops for seemingly everything. I
               | had a bunch of race motorcycles I was unloading at my
               | house and some idiot neighbor called the cops because
               | they thought I was running an illegal repair shop. I had
               | to spend almost an hour proving that my four kids raced
               | semi-professionally. Even had to show them their race
               | licenses before they realized that I was telling the
               | truth. I have found in many places in Europe people have
               | a very hard time minding their own business -- especially
               | old ladies. For reference, I'm a white American. So some
               | Croatians calling the cops after seeing a black dude
               | doing a Forest Gump in the middle of nowhere would
               | certainly attract the attention of the local busybodies.
        
             | sjducb wrote:
             | It's racism. I'm guessing you're from the US, the least
             | racist country in the world.
             | 
             | People see he's a different race so they treat him badly
             | because of it. No one is worried about being called racist.
             | 
             | He was arrested several times a day for being black. No one
             | in the whole chain of events viewed this as a problem.
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | Do you believe the US is the least racist country in the
               | world or have i missed some sarcasm? I'm truly not trying
               | to antagonize, just curious
        
               | 0xffff2 wrote:
               | Who would you nominate? The US certainly has severe
               | problems with racism, but everything I've ever read about
               | other countries has led me to believe that this isn't
               | actually a totally implausible claim.
        
               | sjducb wrote:
               | Name a country that is less racist.
        
             | llm_trw wrote:
             | He's doing something weird hence the police calls.
             | 
             | I'm from that part of the world and had the same thing
             | happen when I went camping.
             | 
             | The police officer asked if I lived in the west, then left
             | me alone with a warning about bears and gypsies.
        
             | lpapez wrote:
             | Most of the comments here are missing the mark IMO.
             | 
             | The primary reason why he got so much police harassment is
             | because Croatia is a EU Schengen border country, the
             | patrols here are much stricter than everywhere else, and
             | the associated problems are much worse as well.
             | 
             | I don't think it's entirely due to racism - if you were a
             | border policeman, and you are tasked with bringing in
             | people illegaly entering the country, what would you do
             | seeing a person of color running on back roads near the
             | border of an otherwise extremely ethnically homogenous
             | country?
             | 
             | For every case of someone who entered legally and got
             | harassed, they probably bring in thousands of people which
             | they are supposed to bring in (ie. entered ilegally).
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | If you're travelling through sensitive border regions,
               | attracting unwanted attention is unfortunately an
               | occupational hazard.
               | 
               | https://www.ndtv.com/offbeat/indy-nelson-man-who-visited-
               | eve...
               | 
               | https://www.pap.pl/en/news/pole-wrongly-sentenced-life-
               | congo...
        
               | aprilthird2021 wrote:
               | How can it not be entirely due to racism, if race is the
               | only factor determining whether you stop someone who is
               | jogging on the street in jogging clothes and likely
               | athletic supershoes?
        
               | wholinator2 wrote:
               | Ya know, this is an incredibly interesting question.
               | Because my instinct is to say that, if the patrols duty
               | is simply to analyze anyone who stands out, and they do
               | so in the proper channels without malice or harassment,
               | then that would be the least racist possible scenario in
               | which this occurs, some may say, not racist. But then
               | even if the guard is kind and helpful, is the guideline
               | "people who stand out must be questioned" racist itself?
               | It sounds like yes. But then what justification do they
               | have for that, is it genuinely that the vast majority of
               | illegal crossings come from people who stand out? Or do
               | most of them blend in, or is it just the stand outs that
               | get caught, thus making it appear in data as if they're
               | the problem and intensifying the patrols around them?
               | Like the airplane problem.
               | 
               | Then the hypothetical, what if it were true that the
               | people attempting to harm your society singularly
               | visually differed? Would that be racism, some strange
               | "justified racism" or simply not racism? If you say, we
               | are not prosecuting on race, but on propensity to crime.
               | Well that starts to sound like some things I've heard in
               | my country, which we believe is racist. Interesting
               | questions.
        
               | johannes1234321 wrote:
               | Well, the neighboring country to Croatia is Bosnia and
               | Herzgovina. The ethnicy is similar and some from there
               | also have motivation to enter illegally. Basing on race
               | ignores those.
               | 
               | Also turning it around: Is it right for somebody, like
               | the runner, who legally entered to repeatedly be treated
               | bad just because others who share skin color do bad?
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | even better, the first check could have asked him for his
               | route, and phone ahead to let their colleagues and
               | especially the call centers know that he is coming. with
               | a photo even. the reverse of a wanted poster. and if they
               | had to deal with a lot of illegal immigrants in the area,
               | the maybe could have asked him to wear something easily
               | identifiable that someone else would not wear. maybe a
               | number thing that's common for runners in a competition.
               | 
               | part of the problem is not only that he is checked, but
               | how he is being treated during those checks.
               | 
               | i mean that's my experience in china. every interaction
               | with authorities was extremely polite and friendly. even
               | when it was an issue where i broke the law because i
               | didn't register my new address in time. of course
               | africans experience racism in china as well, so i can't
               | say for sure that they would get the same treatment as
               | me, but certainly not what this guy experienced in
               | croatia.
        
         | mastermedo wrote:
         | This surprised me too. I am from Croatia, and while there is a
         | fair bit of discrimination against anyone that's different in
         | the country, I am very surprised about this magnitude of it.
         | I'm curious about the route he took. Some road types are
         | illegal to run along, and coincidentally the one going from
         | south to north along the coast is illegal to be on for
         | pedestrians to my knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if any
         | pedestrian was stopped on that road, it's dangerous to run
         | where the speed limit is over 100 km/h.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | He grew up in Britain, and would easily understand the
           | concept and the symbolic "no pedestrians" signs.
           | 
           | Others comments mention a route map, but I can't find it.
        
           | aprilthird2021 wrote:
           | I was surprised but apparently I was dumb, and people see a
           | black person and think "criminal migrant" all the time and
           | that it's somehow not racist to think that, lol. Very many
           | comments in this thread saying exactly that.
        
       | nadermx wrote:
       | A man went on a mission to raise awareness. I'd say he
       | accomplished that.
        
         | endofreach wrote:
         | Unfortunately some sites make it hard to get past the headline
         | with their banners (and ads) for me. So i won't know what he
         | ought to create awareness for.
        
           | kitd wrote:
           | It's in the first paragraph of the linked article, and is
           | expanded on further down.
        
             | endofreach wrote:
             | Well obviously you didn't get it... anyway, thanks for the
             | downvotes.
        
       | pkkkzip wrote:
       | How many hours was he running everyday? This is an insane amount
       | of running. I wonder if there is any health implications?
        
         | afthonos wrote:
         | He ran an average of 15 miles a day. That is absolutely within
         | the normal levels of human endurance if you build up to it.
        
           | thehappypm wrote:
           | I think that's about the average of what a typical
           | Appalachian Trail hiker does, which means that it is very
           | well within the bounds of reality for a regularly able and
           | very motivated person
        
           | aprilthird2021 wrote:
           | Looking at his Strava he seems to be doing more like 20-30+
           | miles a day
        
         | ordersofmag wrote:
         | 7700/516 = just under 15 miles a day or around 100 miles per
         | week. Typical mileage for any elite distance runner or even a
         | decent D1 college runner (and low for an elite marathoner). But
         | they often do it in one or two continuous sessions, often with
         | significant intensity. The task of just covering the mileage in
         | a day (without trying to do it in one go or trying do any of it
         | fast) is nothing particularly exceptional. Heck as a slow
         | 50-something dude I did 100 miles weeks during Covid when I had
         | some free time. Health effects: assuming you were
         | biomechanically inclined to do okay with lots of running and
         | built up to it over a long enough time to avoid the usual
         | overuse injuries it would almost certainly just make you
         | healthier.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | PCT thru hikers do about 18 miles per day over mountainous
           | terrain with a 25 lb pack. They're moving at a slower walking
           | speed though.
        
           | parthdesai wrote:
           | Only on HN you'll see a comment like this downplaying the
           | achievement. With Endurance sport, it's the lack of rest days
           | that make it exponentially harder, you really can't compare
           | with what you've.
        
             | RandallBrown wrote:
             | 15 miles a day is pretty tame for any long distance runner.
             | Even without rest days. You're going to be doing 15 miles
             | in ~3 hours. That's plenty of rest time.
             | 
             | I suspect this guy was actually running significantly more
             | every day but also took some significant time off.
             | 
             | Russ Cook, who also ran the length of Africa, ran a route
             | that was 2000 miles longer, in about 5 less months. He
             | covered on average about 28 miles per day.
             | 
             | They're both very impressive accomplishments, but not as
             | physically impressive as mentally, at least in my opinion.
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | You can walk 3 miles an hour at a leisurely pace. That's a 5
         | hour walk everyday or probably like a 3-4 hour run. Really not
         | all that bad if you're used to it.
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | Extreme exercise such as distance running damages the heart.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/Y6U728AZnV0
        
           | scott_w wrote:
           | This is simply not true. Even research that suggests damage
           | also suggests endurance athletes have better outcomes anyway:
           | https://www.heart.org/en/news/2019/03/01/is-long-distance-
           | ru...
        
             | gregwebs wrote:
             | The article you linked doesn't support the statement made
             | about it. The evidence is mixed but shows worse overall
             | outcomes for those overdoing it. Here's a scientific
             | publication that's clearer that recommends 1-2 days off per
             | week, and no more than 5 hours running per week.
             | 
             | https://journals.lww.com/acsm-
             | csmr/fulltext/2015/03000/exerc...
        
               | scott_w wrote:
               | Quote from the article:
               | 
               | > Recent research has raised alarms about the potential
               | for plaque buildup and scarring in the heart in some
               | long-distance runners. Yet other studies have suggested
               | that when marathoners get heart disease, they may be able
               | to weather it better than non-runners.
               | 
               | All articles discuss scarring and physical signs but no
               | clear link between exercise and worse life outcomes. The
               | article you cited noted most issues resolve themselves
               | within a few weeks after a race. There are literally 0
               | people exercising at "race intensity" day after day,
               | which is completely different kettle of fish to your
               | regular training run. Kato here certainly isn't doing
               | that.
               | 
               | Given many professionals and amateurs run over 5 hours
               | per week and easily break 5/6 miles at a time. A quick
               | search will show strong runners regularly hit 6-8 hours
               | per week.
               | 
               | Cyclists will cover greater distances and times and,
               | apart from Pantani (who was doped to the gills), you
               | don't see them dropping dead of heart attacks despite
               | regularly covering 10-20 hours a week. Similar for
               | triathletes.
               | 
               | So no, the evidence really isn't there that distance
               | running causes heart disease.
        
               | gregwebs wrote:
               | That's another incorrect summary. From the journal
               | article there are multiple studies that have shown worse
               | long-term outcomes from large amounts of exercise:
               | 
               | > Other studies also have confirmed the long-term adverse
               | effects on myocardial structure (18,27-30,32), including
               | one study suggesting that the CAD event rate during
               | 2-year follow-up was significantly higher in the athletes
               | than that in controls
               | 
               | > Recent studies have suggested that long distance
               | runners may have increased levels of atherosclerosis and
               | CAD (18,37). In a study 6 years ago, male marathon
               | runners had paradoxically increased coronary artery
               | calcification (CAC) as measured by computed tomography
               | (CT) CAC scoring (21). A very recent study of men who
               | completed at least one marathon yearly for 25 consecutive
               | years (n = 50) compared with 23 sedentary controls
               | demonstrated increased total plaque volume (P < 0.01),
               | calcified plaque volume (P < 0.0001), and noncalcified
               | plaque volume (P = 0.04) compared with those with EEE
               | (Fig. 3) (37). Despite the fact that runners have better
               | overall CAD risk profiles, these results underscore the
               | potential for very heavy EEE to increase the severity of
               | CAD through mechanisms largely independent of the
               | traditional CAD risk factors.
               | 
               | > Very high doses of running, however, were associated
               | with trends of worse survival compared with either
               | nonrunners or groups of low- and moderate-dose runners.
               | 
               | > However, when dividing runners into quintiles of doses
               | (miles*wk-1, running days per week, min*wk-1, and running
               | speed), with the exception of speed (faster running
               | always had a trend for better survival), quintile 1 (<6
               | miles*wk-1, 1 to 2 times per week, <51 min*wk-1) had
               | similar mortality reductions as those in quintiles 2 to 4
               | and a trend to slightly greater benefit than those in
               | quintile 5 (Fig. 4).
               | 
               | There are other studies that have not shown long-term
               | adverse events. The evidence isn't conclusive and most
               | people need more exercise, not less. But it's prudent to
               | caution committed runners about overdoing it with this
               | information so they can make their own informed decision.
        
               | scott_w wrote:
               | > There are other studies that have not shown long-term
               | adverse events. The evidence isn't conclusive
               | 
               | So after all that, you end up agreeing with me.
        
               | throwway120385 wrote:
               | It's entirely possible that the CAC response is evolved
               | to have some protective factor for endurance running.
        
           | dudeinjapan wrote:
           | Only love can break your heart.
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=364qY0Oz-xs
        
           | dahart wrote:
           | Important quotes from that video: "You can exercise all day,
           | it seems, if you keep it down." And "let me be clear about
           | this: there is no single step you can take in your life to
           | ensure robust health and remarkable longevity than a habit of
           | daily exercise."
           | 
           | FWIW, there are some more recent studies that flatly
           | contradict this claim [1] [2], so YMMV with a TED talk. My
           | father has been a long-distance runner for 50 years, and he
           | thinks that it is possible to do heart damage in _very_
           | extreme cases, but these cases including being more committed
           | than most Olympic athletes. The problem is when doing
           | _competitive_ racing type running without ever taking a break
           | for recovery. He does know a couple of people who ran too
           | fast and too much and had to quit due to what he calls
           | "overtraining syndrome". He specifically said he thinks Deo
           | Kato isn't likely running fast enough to cause overtraining
           | syndrome. In the video, you might notice the data he shows
           | depends on running pace; In the TED video, James didn't
           | separate miles per week from pace (at for example ~6:50).
           | This means that distance alone - miles per week - doesn't
           | necessarily prove anything, miles might not be associated
           | with risks until it's enough miles that there's no time left
           | to rest.
           | 
           | There is a real danger here of scaring people who should
           | exercise more, of giving the wrong impression or a backwards
           | summary to the vast majority of people who will never ever
           | run the risk of over-exercising so much they could cause
           | heart damage. Your summary left out the part where James
           | pointed to the absolute consensus that an hour a day of
           | "vigorous" exercise is known without a doubt to be _very_
           | beneficial. There's also a danger of giving a misleading
           | impression about the risks of not exercising compared to the
           | risks of extreme exercise. The data in the video at ~5:10
           | shows not exercising leading to dying many years earlier,
           | while there is no data here that shows extreme exercise
           | leading to higher mortality; all it shows is that the
           | benefits plateau. There's some data and discussion on
           | incidence of heart problems, but not outcomes. Essentially
           | the summary should be: exercise all you want, and if you are
           | wondering if you're exercising too much, then you're nowhere
           | near the threshold - the very few people exercising enough to
           | do heart damage are extreme and already know they exercise
           | too much, because they're compromising on work, hobbies,
           | friends, and family in order to exercise. ;)
           | 
           | [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-
           | performance/ex...
           | 
           | [2] https://www.utsouthwestern.edu/newsroom/articles/year-201
           | 9/e...
           | 
           | PS you're not the Andrew Stuart of Sudoku/puzzle fame are
           | you?
        
         | pineaux wrote:
         | For all the people reacting that this is not a lot. Don't
         | forget he has had a lot of border troubles, police troubles,
         | money troubles and support troubles. Including rest days, I
         | would estimate his running days at somewhere around the 400.
         | That would mean about 20 miles per running day. So 6 miles
         | short of a marathon, each day.
        
         | dudeinjapan wrote:
         | When he got tired, he slept. When he got hungry, he ate. When
         | he had to go... he went.
        
         | bevan wrote:
         | It is insane in today's world! But big mileage (barefoot, no
         | less) is something we evolved for. Check out the great book
         | Born to Run by Chris Macdougal which explores that concept.
        
           | gregwebs wrote:
           | Micah True, a hero of Born to Run, died after the book was
           | published at age 58 of heart failure while doing a 12 mile
           | training run.
        
             | bevan wrote:
             | Yes, that's explored in the sequel. He lives on in Urique,
             | Mexico where his likeness is plastered everywhere and is
             | the namesake for the big annual race in that town.
        
       | Thorrez wrote:
       | Reminds me of Karl Bushby, who's walking from Chile to England.
       | He made it to at least Kazakhstan so far.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Bushby
        
         | beretguy wrote:
         | > They were detained by Russian border troop officers while
         | they were crossing the Russian border near the Chukotkan
         | village of Uelen, for not entering Russia at a correct port of
         | entry. They were threatened with being banned from Russia,
         | which would stop the journey.
         | 
         | You can always trust russia to be a pain in the neck, to put it
         | mildly.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | I'm sure the US would just let anyone in at any point along
           | their border...
        
             | anonzzzies wrote:
             | if i have to believe musk, there is no issue at all doing
             | that.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | concerning if true.
        
               | borski wrote:
               | Luckily, it isn't.
        
           | lionkor wrote:
           | What a terrible take. Go outside and touch some grass, and
           | then throw away your documents and try to walk across any
           | border on the globe.
        
             | beretguy wrote:
             | Just yesterday/past few days russia bombed Ukraine on a
             | Christmas Day, downed Azerbaijan Airlines plane and cut
             | power cables between Finland and Estonia. My take is good.
             | Your turn to touch grass and stop defending fascists.
        
               | lionkor wrote:
               | Check out the history of Papua, Mr. CIA ;)
        
               | briandear wrote:
               | The Ukraine side has fascists of their own, see the Azov
               | Battalion.
               | 
               | Also recall, Ukraine suspended elections until after the
               | war. While that's following Ukrainian law, that still
               | sounds pretty undemocratic to me. Ukraine possesses Lviv
               | which was Polish since the 1400s. Crimea was Russian from
               | the 1700s as a result of a war with the Ottomans -- a war
               | started by the Turkish because they were made that Russia
               | was interfering with Polish internal affairs. Russia has
               | a much stronger claim on Crimea than Ukraine,
               | historically speaking.
               | 
               | Lviv was stolen from Poland by a Soviet-Nazi agreement
               | during World War II. If the Russians should leave eastern
               | Ukraine, then certainly the Ukrainians should give Lviv
               | back to Poland right?
               | 
               | My point is that the Ukraine conflict isn't as black and
               | white as people make it out to be. This entire conflict
               | is based on overlapping and often contradictory versions
               | of history. Claiming it's a battle against fascism is
               | glossing over the realities.
        
               | seabird wrote:
               | The grumbling about the Azov Battalion and martial law in
               | Ukraine is deflection. Pretty much every nation has some
               | amount of paramilitary nationalism, and it should
               | surprise nobody that a country at total war is going to
               | suspend civil liberties. The war in Ukraine has basically
               | nothing to do with fascism and everything to do with
               | Russian revanchism that NATO would never allow to go
               | unopposed, and it's pretty clear what's in the best
               | interest of Western Europe and the US in this situation.
               | Letting a perennial bad actor walk all over you because
               | there's a veneer of largely irrelevant historical
               | legitimacy over what is pretty clearly a test to see what
               | you'll let slide is just stupid.
        
         | tasuki wrote:
         | Apparently he swam over the Caspian Sea and made it to
         | Azerbaijan.
         | 
         | > The swim covering 179 miles (288 km) was achieved in 31 days
         | as part of his global expedition on foot.
         | 
         | With the help of Azerbaijan's coast guard and some swimmers.
         | Wow!
        
         | ThinkingGuy wrote:
         | See also: Paul Salopek, who's walking from Ethiopia to
         | Patagonia, tracing the path of human migration out of Africa.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Salopek
         | 
         | https://outofedenwalk.nationalgeographic.org/
        
           | alex_duf wrote:
           | See also, Nabil Islam who left France in 2023, crossed
           | Europe, Asia, Oceania, and currently crossing America north
           | to South in a single bicycle trip.
           | 
           | Mastodon: https://masto.bike/@nabili Strava:
           | https://www.strava.com/athletes/113690657
        
         | pinkmuffinere wrote:
         | Forgive my stupidity -- how is it possible to walk from the new
         | world to the old? How does one walk over the oceans?
        
           | aendruk wrote:
           | The linked article contains a map and written explanation.
        
       | rezmason wrote:
       | He succeeded! He arrived on Sunday.
       | 
       | https://therunningchannel.com/deo-kato-completes-run-from-ca...
       | 
       | Does anyone know how he ran from continental Europe to England?
        
         | yoavm wrote:
         | Seems like he took a ferry from Calais to Dover
         | 
         | https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a63224509/deo-kato-lond...
         | https://www.instagram.com/p/DDynCvFAph_/?img_index=1
        
         | input_sh wrote:
         | Looking through his Strava, I don't think he did?
         | 
         | He reached Calais on the 19th and started from Dover on the
         | 20th, so I'm assuming a ferry.
        
         | kordlessagain wrote:
         | Looks like you could walk, in theory (but not legally):
         | 
         | > During one Sunday in October 1993, Wally Michalski and Mike
         | Turner, working as contractors on the British side, used a pair
         | of the Saracen bicycles to cycle the 100-kilometre (62 mi)
         | round-trip from Folkestone to Coquelles and back again. The
         | pair took around five hours to complete the journey, while
         | wearing full overalls and needing to carry respirators.[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_the_Channel_Tunnel
        
       | llm_trw wrote:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippa_Bacca
       | 
       | Running in the other direction seems to be somewhat more
       | dangerous.
        
         | debugnik wrote:
         | > Bacca's naked, strangled, and decomposing body was found in
         | bushes
         | 
         | > DNA testing suggested that Bacca was raped by multiple
         | people, and not just Karatas.
         | 
         | How sad. Looks to me like the dangerous part is doing so as a
         | woman, not the direction.
        
           | llm_trw wrote:
           | They made it fine when going through Europe.
        
             | debugnik wrote:
             | You surely understand one travels through the same
             | countries when doing the same route in either direction.
             | That's not what we meant here.
        
               | llm_trw wrote:
               | You surely realize that you stop traveling when dead? In
               | which case direction matters.
        
           | tdiff wrote:
           | Being a woman may expose you to extra risks, but it doesnt
           | mean men are safe there.
        
             | debugnik wrote:
             | Of course, I just meant that it seems to have been the main
             | factor in her story, rather than the fact that she entered
             | Turkey from Europe. I can't really draw any general
             | conclusions out of a sample of two; well, one, because this
             | runner apparently didn't cross Turkey, so not really a
             | similar route.
        
         | aprilthird2021 wrote:
         | These are not the same paths so direction is meaningless. This
         | runner did not travel through Turkey
        
       | thruway516 wrote:
       | >>"Kato wanted his journey to draw attention to the earliest
       | migration of humans from Africa and challenge the racist notion
       | that people should "go back to where they come from". Viewed as a
       | whole, he said the run had underlined the positive aspects of
       | migration and its potential to "create a more culturally
       | connected and enriched global society".
       | 
       | This is an epic feat and gives me hope for humanity. My hats off
       | to Mr Kato!
        
       | workfromspace wrote:
       | I don't like his take on Czechia: while being stopped by police 4
       | times is not pleasant, I'm guessing it's nothing compared to the
       | (lack of) safety in many countries in Africa, South/Central
       | America and Asia. [0]
       | 
       | [0]:
       | https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2...
       | 
       | In the meantime, could someone with experience (i.e a local)
       | please tell me about the current safety of and racism against a
       | white person in Cape Town, where he started his peace run? Is it
       | safer than Johannesburg? I'd love to visit South Africa, but I'm
       | too scared of visiting there nowadays.
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | Czechia has never been mentioned.
         | 
         | As a matter of fact, Africa is crossed partially or completely
         | on a fairly frequent basis by white backpackers and
         | bikepackers. You can find numerous guides and reports on the
         | internet. Also, around 16% of the population of Cape Town is
         | white.
         | 
         | Having said that even in the most dangerous places in Africa
         | the problem is not necessarily racism but inequalities and
         | unemployment. Cross a place where unemployment is high and
         | education level is low due to inequalities, crime will be
         | rampant regardless of average skin color. If you happen to have
         | interesting goods or be seen as a vulnerable, you may have
         | problems. Hence the reason you might have issues in some places
         | in Cape Town but not in a peaceful village somewhere else in
         | Africa. And said peaceful village that could happen to have
         | been very dangerous in another time when same country was in
         | civil war.
         | 
         | I am not saying racism against white people don't exist, but
         | there is no reason to oppose racism against white people to a
         | black guy running to raise awareness about racism. That guy is
         | probably against any form of racism, especially as his life
         | partner happens to be white.
        
         | aprilthird2021 wrote:
         | Look at the mental gymnastics you need to do to hold this
         | worldview.
         | 
         | 1. Not 4 times. 4 times per day every day you are in the
         | country
         | 
         | 2. Don't complain about racism in 1st world if you are from the
         | 3rd world because the 3rd world isn't safe. Conveniently
         | missing that racism here is between ethnicity of the 1st world
         | towards 3rd world ethnicities, so basically this absolves all
         | racism in that direction in the 1st world.
         | 
         | 3. I'm scared of visiting South Africa because of racism, but a
         | black man scared of racism in Europe where the police are
         | constantly called on him, that's no big deal and he shouldn't
         | complain, which I'm doing right now.
        
           | workfromspace wrote:
           | 1. Yeah, 4 times a day is a lot and I'm sorry for him.
           | Although I would like to learn more about the details. (I.e
           | other comments mentioning about illegal crossings etc)
           | 
           | 2. I'm sorry I didn't fully get this (English is not my first
           | language) but I'm also from a 3rd world country).
           | 
           | 3. I'm guessing you are in the USA bubble (which always had
           | and still have a racism problem on a different level) and
           | don't know much about Europe. In Europe, racism would almost
           | never result in any physical violence or not being allowed
           | any rights.
        
             | infrawhispers wrote:
             | Racism would almost never result in any physical violence
             | or removal of rights in Europe? Hahahahah this gave me a
             | great laugh.
        
         | workfromspace wrote:
         | (Edit: My bad, I meant Croatia.)
        
       | aprilthird2021 wrote:
       | I would highly recommend looking at his Strava, he basically logs
       | every day and the everyday kindness of strangers along his
       | journey as well as the bad parts. We are humans, we are good and
       | bad all mixed in one, and his run really reflects a depth of
       | human experience, in my mind.
       | 
       | https://strava.app.link/5KsFE3BoEPb
        
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