[HN Gopher] The Swedish cabin on the frontline of a possible hyb...
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       The Swedish cabin on the frontline of a possible hybrid war
        
       Author : Sami_Lehtinen
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2024-12-23 13:31 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | fifilura wrote:
       | Tangential, after reading the description of the archipelago.
       | 
       | Sweden is the country with most islands in the world, followed by
       | Norway and Finland.
       | 
       | https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/which-countries-have-the...
        
         | yoavm wrote:
         | If you've never visited the Stockholm archipelago, I highly
         | recommend it. In fact, I think it's perhaps the best thing
         | about Stockholm, and one of the most beautiful places in the
         | world in general -- if you're into sailing, islands and seas.
         | It's almost too easy to find an island just for yourself for
         | the weekend, and "Allemansratten", the law that grants people
         | the right to access wilderness, only makes it even more
         | accessible. Going there at the midst of winter or during summer
         | are both very different experiences, but both are very
         | charming.
        
           | casenmgreen wrote:
           | Also, the superb torpedo museum!
        
         | eesmith wrote:
         | Do they use the same methods to define "island"?
         | 
         | The section for Australia seems very broad: "Australia itself
         | dominates the islands around its coastal fringe, which range in
         | size from smaller rocks that are not covered by water at high
         | tide to ..."
         | 
         | While it says the US has 18,617 islands, I struggle to find an
         | official source for that very precise number.
         | 
         | I also see how
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_of_Florida says
         | "The U.S. state of Florida has a total of 4,510 islands that
         | are ten acres or larger", suggesting that ten acres is the
         | minimum sized used for "island" in the US.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_of_Maine says
         | "Maine is home to over 4,600 coastal islands, ranging from
         | large landmasses like Mount Desert Island to small islets and
         | ledges exposed above mean high tide."
         | 
         | Clearly these are not using the same definitions.
         | 
         | I managed to find the Global Islands data set at
         | https://www.sciencebase.gov/catalog/item/63bdf25dd34e92aad3c...
         | with an explorer at https://rmgsc.cr.usgs.gov/gie/ which should
         | have exactly what I want, except 1) it only lists ocean
         | islands, not inland ones, and 2) I can't figure out how to get
         | the data by country.
         | 
         | It categories things as "Big Islands (greater than 1 km2),
         | Small Islands (less than or equal to 1 km2 and greater than or
         | equal to 0.0036 km2), and Very Small Islands (less than 0.0036
         | km2)." "There are 21,818 big islands in the database. The
         | remaining 318,868 islands are all less than 1 km2 and are
         | classed as small islands.'
         | 
         | I give up.
        
           | Etheryte wrote:
           | I don't think that quote implies a limit for the definition
           | in any way. It just says that this is the count below a given
           | threshold. It doesn't say anything about that threshold being
           | a standard or anything of that sort.
        
           | LtWorf wrote:
           | In sweden if you dig a canal around some land, they call the
           | result an island.
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | There's just literally no possible way that Sweden has an
           | order of magnitude more islands than the US or Canada.
           | 
           | Open up Google Earth and scan around northern coastlines of
           | all these countries and you'll laugh at the premise of this
           | article.
           | 
           | With that said I wouldn't be surprised if they have the most
           | documented/counted islands. That's another thing entirely and
           | also sort of interesting I suppose.
        
       | tester756 wrote:
       | Why write about it then?
       | 
       | Even if you assume that enemies' intelligence already knows about
       | it, then doesnt it just show that it doesn't work?
       | 
       | Or maybe it is just fake cabin?
        
         | 23B1 wrote:
         | There's no mystery to infra being both vulnerable and
         | accessible, especially to belligerent world powers. It's all
         | just degrees of consequence for attacking those components.
         | 
         | Additionally, a journalist would probably (reasonably) argue
         | that writing about it exposes just how little consideration
         | governments give to protecting this infra.
        
       | mrbluecoat wrote:
       | Good thing they have a giant neon green spindle of fiber optic
       | cable right next to the discreet cabin to help it blend in..
        
         | LtWorf wrote:
         | I'd bet it's done this way to blend with the landscape, not to
         | be a big secret.
        
         | ninalanyon wrote:
         | Why doe it need to blend in? It's not a secret installation.
         | The cabin is discreet simply because the red paint is the
         | traditional colour for pretty much all rural plank clad non-
         | residential buildings in Scandinavia. I doubt that any thought
         | went into the colour scheme.
        
           | unwind wrote:
           | It's called Falu red [1], btw. Made from mining residual
           | products and originally liked because it resembled luxurious
           | brick.
           | 
           | [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falu_red
        
             | wildzzz wrote:
             | Also common in early farm structures in America too which
             | could likely be due to large immigration from Scandinavia.
             | The iron oxide acts as an anti-fungal as well.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | Undersea cables are also marked explicitly on all nautical
         | charts. If a rented pleasure boat can, with plausible
         | deniability as to intentionality, drag a hook across the sea
         | floor and easily get away, the cabin isn't the issue.
         | 
         | This isn't the main weak point.
        
       | a0-prw wrote:
       | War groupie BS.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | yes, drumbeats of war take so many forms!
        
         | llamaimperative wrote:
         | I remember seeing similar comments in January of 2022. Curious!
        
       | leobg wrote:
       | > [T]he Guardian was given exclusive access to the Stockholm
       | datacentre site. [...] Daniel Aldstam, the chief security officer
       | at GlobalConnect, which transports 50% of the internet capacity
       | of the Nordics and runs the centre, described the approach to its
       | location and ordinary outward appearance as "security through
       | obscurity".
       | 
       | How do you do that facepalm emoji on HN?
        
       | askonomm wrote:
       | Probably a stupid question, but why don't we encase the
       | (undersea) cable in some metal container or something so that it
       | would not be so easy to break? Is it due to economics? Is the
       | constant fixing in the end cheaper than making it hard to break,
       | or perhaps it needs maintenance anyway often enough to make it a
       | hassle?
        
         | sandermvanvliet wrote:
         | Because it would need to be pretty beefy in order to stop an
         | anchor dragged by a big(-ish) ship and would be uneconomical.
         | 
         | If it does get damaged then repair would also be more expensive
         | than current methods
        
         | chiph wrote:
         | They are armored when they get close to land. But at depth they
         | are not because of weight & economics. Even if a cable were
         | armored for the full length - I'm not sure it would withstand
         | an intentional anchor-dragging.
         | 
         | Someone needs to do an A/B test. (no not really)
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | You have to encase the entire length of the cable, which can be
         | hundreds of miles, but the attacker only needs to attack a
         | single spot. The nordstream pipeline attacks have shown that
         | planting explosives on undersea infrastructure isn't exactly
         | hard, so you end up paying an enormous price to add a knee-high
         | barrier for a would-be attacker.
        
         | efnx wrote:
         | They mention at the end that it makes it heavier and harder to
         | deploy, as well as how rare it is that they get damaged.
         | 
         | But I think this is the point of the article - that we start
         | thinking with "a wartime mindset". Which is a shame, but maybe
         | necessary given the state of the world.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | The other approach that can work in some areas is to use a
         | plough to bury the undersea cable in a trench. This is much
         | slower, more expensive, and damaging to the marine environment.
         | 
         | https://www.royalihc.com/offshore-energy/offshore-equipment/...
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | It would cost so much material. I think it would be more
         | economical to just bury it. With an automated robot of course.
         | It would also make it a hell of a lot harder for an attacker to
         | locate the cable. But I don't know if these already exist.
        
       | bookofjoe wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42498928
        
       | pvaldes wrote:
       | [delayed]
        
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