[HN Gopher] Nordstrom family to take company private
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       Nordstrom family to take company private
        
       Author : ivewonyoung
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2024-12-23 17:38 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | Interesting. I have seen large scale department stores like
       | Nordstrom die one after another. Nordstrom Canada actually failed
       | a few years ago. I am not sure if I was rich and owned Nordstrom
       | in some way, I would invest my own money into Nordstrom. Instead
       | I would do everything I can to diversify.
        
         | whateveracct wrote:
         | Nordstrom has been pretty steady as-is though. It's still one
         | of the few brick and mortar stores I actually go to.
         | 
         | Also, their online shopping is pretty solid as well. I always
         | use them for gifts. I think they buffed it up during the
         | pandemic and its paid dividends.
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | I don't think department stores are failing because they're a
         | bad business. I think they're failing because they're being
         | gutted by corporate raiders for their real estate assets.
        
           | flyingpenguin wrote:
           | I disagree, I think they are bad business.
           | 
           | I have come to absolutely detest online shopping. I have to
           | return so much stuff, live with so many things that I don't
           | actually love, generate sooooo much trash, and spend hours on
           | hours researching everything because I can't hold it in my
           | hand.
           | 
           | Then I walk into REI and ask them if I can try on a size 9
           | wide of a running shoe. They tell me they don't have it, so I
           | ask them if they have any wide... they don't have a single
           | wide shoe. Then I ask what they have and they say "Ohh we
           | have 200 of the exact same shoe in the exact same size in
           | stock"
           | 
           | And then I go order 5 different 9-wide shoes on amazon and
           | return 4....
        
             | ajmurmann wrote:
             | I understand this in part is an issue with the fashion
             | industry. AFAIK you might order 100 green S, 100 red M and
             | you get 150 blue L and 50 red M (simplified example).
             | Haven't done anything related to this in over ten years
             | though. Things might have gotten better and depend on your
             | scale/leverage.
        
             | AzzieElbab wrote:
             | Consider yourself lucky. My feet are not just wide. I wear
             | 10.5 size and have high arches.
        
             | luckylion wrote:
             | > I have to return so much stuff, live with so many things
             | that I don't actually love, generate sooooo much trash, and
             | spend hours on hours researching everything because I can't
             | hold it in my hand.
             | 
             | I hate the research part, especially Amazon hasn't improved
             | their system since the late 2000s. I'm sure lots of great
             | improvements on the logistics and business-development
             | side, but the store feels like hobby project and "we
             | couldn't make filtering work, so whatever".
             | 
             | But on the trash part: you generate visible trash. But if
             | you frame it slightly differently: the mall you'd go to
             | needs to be built and heated and fully staffed, and
             | thousands of cars need to drive there etc etc, and that
             | consumes a lot of resources. It's just not visible, and
             | with online-shopping it is. But I'm pretty sure online-
             | shopping is more efficient even if you have to return 4 out
             | of 5 shoes.
        
               | malfist wrote:
               | Didn't you see? Amazon improved it by putting the option
               | to have an AI pick out the "best" of 2,000 identical
               | items
               | 
               | Amazon is actively killing the usefulness of their store
               | in a race to beat ali express and temu to the bottom
        
               | lesuorac wrote:
               | > I hate the research part, especially Amazon hasn't
               | improved their system since the late 2000s.
               | 
               | Pretty sure it's regressed. I think there used to be a
               | bunch more filters you could do based on a product
               | category that I think went away as they added more
               | products.
               | 
               | Real annoying when you want like a 4 GB memory card and
               | it splits up your input of "4 GB" into "4", "GB" and then
               | shows you everything with a "4" or a "GB" in it...
        
               | luckylion wrote:
               | > Real annoying when you want like a 4 GB memory card and
               | it splits up your input of "4 GB" into "4", "GB" and then
               | shows you everything with a "4" or a "GB" in it...
               | 
               | I'm still not convinced it's not a social experiment to
               | find out just how much it will take to make users give up
               | and go away.
               | 
               | Or the size filter on clothes. Great, I can filter by
               | size to only see pants that'll fit me. Wow, nice
               | selection, let's open this one. Ohh... it has that size
               | in general but it isn't available. I've come this to just
               | writing a scraper, getting all the data and then
               | filtering it properly just so I can buy some pants.
        
             | _DeadFred_ wrote:
             | Have you shopped at Nordstroms and do you have money?
             | Here's how Nordstroms won me over back when I was in a
             | better economic class than I am today:
             | 
             | My daughter had a speech impediment and other issues that
             | caused her to not feel great about herself. Little girls
             | can be scarily mean and self organize pecking orders of
             | meanness in some way based on self confidence which my
             | daughter didn't have. The women at Nordstroms made her feel
             | like a princess and made her feel good about/have
             | confidence in herself in a way that overruled the meanness
             | from the girls in her class (sorry small town little miss,
             | the fancy ladies at Nordstroms in the nearest big city
             | overruled your opinions).
             | 
             | Nordies then every season called and let my wife know when
             | new things came in, and held back items in my daughter's
             | size and the next up for her to come try on, and then would
             | just go get them when we came in. No 'oh we don't have that
             | size'. When they know you daughters taste and name, have
             | brought smiles to her face, and made her confident when
             | running into other kids from her school when out and about
             | where before she would want to run away, well, it makes you
             | a customer for life (or until your life falls apart and
             | finances no longer work).
             | 
             | Shopping therapy probably isn't the healthiest mentally,
             | but Nordstroms was way cheaper than what we were already
             | spending on speech therapy a year and 1000% better for my
             | daughters opinion of herself. I would (and did) pay
             | anything for that. Again, maybe not healthy and it wasn't
             | intentional (we just went in originally to get her
             | something fancy to wear on our fancy Christmas night out to
             | dinner and The Nutcracker) but it was shockingly life
             | changing for my little girl. I'll add that this endorsement
             | of (probably gross) classist/capitalism consumer therapy is
             | brought to you by someone raised by hippie parents in Santa
             | Cruz.
        
             | fsckboy wrote:
             | isn't New Balance known for wide shoe sizes?
        
               | DHPersonal wrote:
               | Yes, but the nearby stores that stock them might only
               | carry the popular sizes and models. New Balance does
               | offer some locations with complete shoe fittings and
               | unique size ordering, but their closest location may be
               | hours away. Sometimes a trip to the website is the only
               | option, but it's tough to fit a shoe on a foot in a
               | virtual setting. :)
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | If they cannot generate enough profits to even justify
           | holding on to the real estate rather than putting the real
           | estate to some other use, is that meaningfully different from
           | failing?
        
             | well_actulily wrote:
             | Anecdotally, but it seems like a lot of these sites that
             | once hosted these department or big box stores don't wind
             | up getting redeveloped. At best, they might be home to a
             | Spirit Halloween for a couple months out of a year. Having
             | to compete with online retailers is certainly a challenge,
             | but it doesn't seem like what private equity does to these
             | legacy companies benefits anyone but their investors'
             | desire for short-term profits.
        
           | mlinhares wrote:
           | And that's the reason they're being gutted. They're not crazy
           | growth businesses anymore but have enough cash flow and real
           | estate to make it profitable to be bled to death by these
           | vultures.
        
           | daft_pink wrote:
           | Also, the way that Macy's leadership talks about the business
           | and the merger's they've pursued, they consider the business
           | to be a "toll bridge", where they are the only large scale
           | department store in America and thus if you want certain
           | premium fashion goods to have distribution throughout the
           | United States, you have to sell to them in a way that they
           | can generate a profit.
           | 
           | They don't seem to care about the customer at all and there
           | stores are very rundown and not well maintained. It doesn't
           | feel like a luxury. They seem focused on selling premium
           | fashion brands on their distribution network with location
           | numbers. They don't care about anything else.
        
           | legitster wrote:
           | Corporate raiders only targeted "distressed assets". They
           | didn't pay full-price for healthy brands to gut - the whole
           | point was to flip cheap (failing) stores.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | Their goal is a quick profit. That can be a failing
             | business but it can also be a business which isn't as
             | profitable as Wall Street investors want and has salable
             | assets. The debate between short term and long term value
             | is a famous example of how priorities shift based on the
             | investors' timeframe.
        
           | philwelch wrote:
           | If a business's assets are more valuable than the business
           | itself, it's a bad business.
        
             | xethos wrote:
             | On a short enough time frame, the golden egg currently
             | inside the goose is more valuable than the goose itself.
             | The problem comes when you kill the long-term profits
             | trying to get an immediate return.
             | 
             | Thinking you can make more money in the short term (for
             | example, by selling real estate) routinely kills the
             | ability to earn a profit long term (which is now eaten by
             | rent on land you used to own).
        
           | bhouston wrote:
           | > I don't think department stores are failing because they're
           | a bad business. I think they're failing because they're being
           | gutted by corporate raiders for their real estate assets.
           | 
           | I think you are confusing cause and effect at least the case
           | I know of, Sears. Because Sears' core business was dying,
           | because of Amazon, the best way to get value out of it was to
           | raid its real-estate assets. It may have hastened Sears'
           | demise, but it probably was the smartest thing to do from a
           | business standpoint.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | A lot of people imagine that private equity etc. is
             | scooping up successful businesses and running then into the
             | ground. A company like Sears was a confused mess when they
             | were bought.
        
         | neom wrote:
         | If they can go back to their roots with digital, maybe. They
         | would need to figure out how to do a "ssense + crate and barrel
         | + sephora" under one online banner property. As far as I can
         | think, nobody has really nailed the high end department store
         | online have they?
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | Would that work online? A lot of these goods I want to see in
           | person and ideally touch before purchase
        
             | neom wrote:
             | I think it would be best served coupled, so their physical
             | locations would basically turn into try-on/look at only
             | mostly, kinda like early wably parker stores? the IRL stuff
             | would be thin layer retail, experiences, coffee shop etc,
             | but you would mostly buy, buy, buy again online. I think it
             | could work if it was well executed!
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | >Nordstrom Canada failed
         | 
         | Of the 13 stores they opened in canada, 7 were the "nordstrom
         | rack" discount brand, which is really _not_ nordstrom. IIRC
         | they were actually some of the old stores from the failed
         | Target expansion, and they felt like failed Target stores. It
         | 's not a surprise that they failed.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | I hope this doesn't change Nordstrom too much. One of the last
       | department stores worth stopping into. JC Penny and Macys feel so
       | run down (and I'm talking a nice Southern California mall, not
       | one somewhere in the middle of the country). Bloomingdales is
       | nice too, but they don't seem like they'll have the same staying
       | power.
        
         | daft_pink wrote:
         | I think it's a positive. Generally the founders are more
         | customer friendly/focused than CEO's chasing constant
         | revenue/profit growth.
         | 
         | Hard to imagine such a customer friendly company drastically
         | changing when the founders retake control.
        
           | Eric_WVGG wrote:
           | Seemed to work pretty well for Dell Computer.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | The Walton family disproves that theory.
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | We have one of the new concept Penny's here in Hurst Texas, and
         | its amazing, the store is very well merchandised, clean and
         | well lit.
         | 
         | They're supposedly rolling them out nationwide - JCP does
         | gamify shopping in a way that almost makes it fun.
         | 
         | https://fortworth.culturemap.com/news/fashion/11-01-19-j-c-p...
         | 
         | https://www.jcpenney.com/m/hurst-store-page
        
           | kylehotchkiss wrote:
           | WOW do I love their new logo. This all seems really well
           | thought out. Glad they're doing the hard work to step out of
           | the 90s!
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | This sounds really interesting - they've decided to make
           | their new stores a place to visit not just to shop but as a
           | place to learn (clearly leading to more shopping).
           | 
           | Stores used to rely on other mall properties to do the 2nd
           | part but as the concept of the Mall starts fading, they need
           | to start doing this themselves.
        
           | wombat-man wrote:
           | That's good. For nostalgia reasons I shop at the mall around
           | the holidays. JCP seems to be marching right behind the SEARS
           | that is no longer there.
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | I happen to have some inside knowledge, this was a concept
           | store created for a specific marketing campaign and no
           | intention of this being rolled out further to their stores.
           | The store/campaign itself was like three waves of executives
           | ago at this point and will likely never be more than this
           | single store. They were experimenting with box in a box but
           | have mostly lost those partnerships too, the Sephora
           | partnership was largely seen as beneficial to Sephora more
           | than JCP.
        
         | AzzieElbab wrote:
         | I used to grab coffee in Toronto's Nordstrom cafe. The store
         | was positioned so that you had to cross it after getting out of
         | the subway on your way to other stores and offices--as prime of
         | a location as it gets. It still got tanked by the rent
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | Nordstrom played really smart - they didn't overexpand or cheap
         | out their brand.
        
           | ciabattabread wrote:
           | They had the failed Canada expansion, but they smelled like
           | roses compared to the crash and burn of Target Canada.
        
             | transcriptase wrote:
             | On top of the hilariously mismanaged rollout and botched
             | logistics/inventory system, Target thought that Canadians
             | would pay $19 for a $5 tee when the exchange rate was
             | ~1.04.
        
             | bpye wrote:
             | It's unfortunate. As mentioned elsewhere, the Vancouver
             | store was one of their most profitable (overall) but the
             | rest were not - and I guess sustaining operations in
             | another country for one store doesn't work out.
        
               | transcriptase wrote:
               | 6 months after the grand opening the east coast locations
               | looked as if they were being liquidated not ramping up.
               | To hide the fact that they couldn't get the inventory mix
               | they needed the staff were spacing out what little they
               | did have. E.g. An entire aisle of king sized duvets with
               | huge empty gaps, and no twin or queen sized to be found.
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | My local Macy's is pretty nice, so I shop there pretty
         | regularly. It's in the middle of the country, but it's also
         | located in a relatively affluent area and attached to a mall
         | that's still doing quite well.
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | As a male with absolutely no fashion sense but an occasional
         | need to look presentable, I've always appreciated that you can
         | get a free appointment with a personal stylist to help select
         | your wardrobe. The cost is of course baked into the price of
         | the clothing, but it is going to be quality stuff that lasts
         | for a long time and be comfortable.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | Saks used to have a men's store in San Francisco where you
           | could just get a guy to dress you. Barney's men's department
           | was good, too. Unfortunately these are long gone. There is an
           | overall lack of places for a man to buy clothes in American
           | cities. I've noticed when I am abroad there seem to be more.
        
             | skyyler wrote:
             | Heimie's Haberdashery in Saint Paul still offers this sort
             | of personal styling, and they offer tailoring as well.
             | Definitely worth a stop if you're in the Twin Cities.
        
             | chokolad wrote:
             | Bonobos has guide stores with stylists in them. If you need
             | that kind of clothing it can work out pretty well. It's a
             | completely different price range to Saks though.
        
           | kylehotchkiss wrote:
           | This is some really solid advice, thanks Buildsjets. I'm
           | gonna give this a try sometime.
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | I hope this actually does change Nordstrom because their
         | corporate direction has been terrible over the last few years
         | while trying to maximize shareholder value.
         | 
         | They've closed all Canadian operations, despite their Vancouver
         | store being one of their highest earning stores in North
         | America. They've closed several west coast stores in the US as
         | well, citing crime but insiders had said it was because they
         | want to move into lower cost areas instead.
         | 
         | Basically they're trying to move into the market that JC Penny
         | and Macy are leaving open, which has been slowly making
         | Nordstrom itself much lower quality as a shopping experience.
         | 
         | Over the last few years they've turned their shopping
         | experience into more of a dumping ground of random clutter
         | 
         | Perhaps going private will let them focus on treating their
         | experience as part of the product.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | The retail death spiral.
           | 
           | Sales are down, so they cut costs by cutting staff and
           | presentation. That ultimately turns the store into a
           | warehouse of goods which in turn discourages shopping
           | further. With that decline they often resort into cutting
           | store operating hours which further kills off shopping.
           | 
           | One of my local malls is open from like 11am to 6pm on the
           | weekdays and 8pm on the weekends. Even if I wanted to shop
           | there, it's hard because they are closed during normal work
           | hours. The shops and stores are all manned with a skeleton
           | crew. I've seen Macy's have a single employee manning the
           | entire store.
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | I worked at Nordstrom for 8 years, first in customer service,
         | then in IT, then in engineering. I think this is a good move.
         | The Nordstrom family cared a lot about the brand and the
         | customers, the shareholders didn't. Things were really going
         | downhill when I left. I hope they can get the boat righted.
        
       | infogulch wrote:
       | > Nordstrom Inc. is going private in an all-cash transaction
       | valued at about $6.25 billion in a bet by the founding family
       | that the department-store company will be more successful without
       | the scrutiny and demands of the public market.
       | 
       | > As part of the transaction, the family will acquire all of the
       | outstanding common shares of Nordstrom not already beneficially
       | owned by the Nordstrom Family and Mexican department store chain
       | El Puerto de Liverpool SAB.
       | 
       | > Under the terms of the agreement, Nordstrom common shareholders
       | will receive $24.25 in cash for each share of Nordstrom common
       | stock they hold. The Nordstrom Family will have a majority
       | ownership stake in the company.
       | 
       | - https://archive.is/soEKw
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | What happens if I don't want to sell my shares? I don't
         | understand how that works.
        
           | dghlsakjg wrote:
           | A vote by the majority of the shareholders will determine
           | what happens.
           | 
           | If you don't want to sell your shares, prepare to convince a
           | majority of the shareholders otherwise.
           | 
           | This will be very hard since 45% of the company is owned by
           | the people making the buyout offer.
        
           | Horffupolde wrote:
           | There are drag along clauses or forced buyout clauses of
           | public shares.
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Revenue: ~$15B       Profit:  ~$0.3B
       | 
       | https://press.nordstrom.com/static-files/e5cb0f84-48b5-4d4a-...
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | 0.3B / 6.25B = ~5% which is pretty good. If they can boost it
         | somehow then even better.
        
       | EE84M3i wrote:
       | Any suggested reading to understand how these transactions work
       | in practical terms? Does it depend on some sort of rules of the
       | exchange or SEC rules?
       | 
       | E.g. How do existing shareholders get paid out? What happens to
       | shorts? Treasury shares? Options? RSUs?
       | 
       | It seems like it would be extremely complex.
        
       | moffkalast wrote:
       | I keep reading that in the way prof. Farnsworth yells
       | "Wernstrom!" in Futurama
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/a1nu4
        
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