[HN Gopher] Tracking Down the Bulgarian Marketplace Scams
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       Tracking Down the Bulgarian Marketplace Scams
        
       Author : syl5x
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2024-12-20 12:59 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sy1.sh)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sy1.sh)
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | Good work!
       | 
       | As noted, it probably won't change anything, but scammers are a
       | _lot_ more sophisticated, these days, than they used to be.
        
         | vintermann wrote:
         | From the description, these are rent-a-scammers, who convince
         | people that renting their all in one scam platform is a great
         | deal. It probably isn't, or they'd be doing it themselves. It's
         | a good deal if you place a premium on feeling clever from
         | scamming people, and don't care about the risk of getting hit
         | by the police, or by rival would-be scammers eager to show
         | they're more tough criminals than you.
         | 
         | It's the lifecycle of a scam. Once it really isn't worth the
         | effort anymore, it gets packaged up and sold to stupid kids.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | This isn't any different from those seminars that teach you
           | how to make money in real estate, forex, or similar. All you
           | have to do is buy their books and attend their seminars and
           | they teach you how to host your own seminars.
        
         | phoronixrly wrote:
         | If only there were authorities that would take actions to track
         | down these scammers with as much zeal as they track down
         | pirates...
        
       | honzabe wrote:
       | That's bizarre - someone tried to scam me in a similar way
       | literally a few minutes ago.
       | 
       | I am selling something on a marketplace. Someone contacted me -
       | they want to buy the thing I am selling. Do I still have it? I
       | say yes. They say they are sending a GLS courier to collect the
       | item. I figure they need the item fast - we are celebrating
       | Christmas tomorrow. Why not.
       | 
       | The "buyer" sends me a link to a service supposedly offered by
       | GLS, where GLS works as an intermediary - they collected the
       | money from the buyer; when they collect the item, they will pay
       | me. This is happening in the Czech Republic, and services like
       | that seem plausible here. I do not know every detail of every
       | delivery service offered here. The page looks just like an
       | ordinary GLS page. I am in a hurry. I do not pay that much
       | attention. I pause and check only when redirected to my bank's
       | authentication page (this is the phishing part, obviously). Turns
       | out GLS offers no such service.
       | 
       | I was closer to giving them what they wanted than I imagined
       | possible. I was on autopilot until the last second. Not even my
       | bank's login page surprised me that much - we have something
       | called "bank identity" that lets you authenticate stuff by your
       | bank ID. It is so convenient that I got used to it and I do it
       | carelessly.
       | 
       | >> I hate scammers
       | 
       | Yes, me too.
        
         | Gys wrote:
         | I missed something: why do you as a seller have to enter your
         | bankdetails?
        
           | honzabe wrote:
           | That is the thing - you don't.
           | 
           | In Czechia, something called bank ID is commonly used to
           | authenticate. The point is to verify it is you, for example
           | when you sign a contract online, fill in tax returns
           | online... stuff like that. The way it works is that you are
           | on some site, you get redirected to your internet banking,
           | you log in (that's what I meant by "bank details", I am sorry
           | about expressing myself so clumsily), and your bank redirects
           | you back to that site with confirmation that is you.
           | 
           | Do I need to verify my identity when someone wants to send me
           | money? Who knows. This is the part that made me check. But I
           | was close to not checking simply because it is habitual, and
           | you do stuff like that automatically.
           | 
           | Nowadays, we are often dealing with systems we do not fully
           | understand. You get redirected to some familiar login form,
           | you log in, and you don't even pause. Well, at least I do it.
           | I should be a lot more careful, apparently.
        
             | XorNot wrote:
             | Login page redirects have become a big user security hazard
             | it would seem - and OAuth is basically the culprit.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | The entire social engineering of sending everything off
               | to 3rd party is something that really irks me. The touted
               | convenience of faster to deploy updates by using 3rd
               | party rather than depending on local version updates has
               | never been enough for me. It also was the sugar pill for
               | switching to rent seeking SaaS to gain traction.
               | 
               | I don't want my web server dependent on anyone else's
               | server/service being available or in any other way
               | slowing down my user's experience.
               | 
               | The only service that I have no local solution is payment
               | processing.
        
             | ustad wrote:
             | Holy crap. What a terrible system and I hope my part of the
             | world never implements such forms of tech.
        
             | mcyukon wrote:
             | Canada checking in. We have the same system for
             | authenticating with government services.
             | https://www.interac.ca/en/verification/personal/sign-into-
             | go...
             | 
             | I dislike this as well, as this is conditioning people to
             | not second guess why a third party website is sending you
             | to your bank to login. As well as scam websites I've come
             | across that mirror the authentication process down to every
             | step you would have when using it for legitimate purposes.
             | Scam website>Scam Interact login parter>Scam web banking
             | login> stolen bank credentials.
        
         | lifestyleguru wrote:
         | The problem is using bank account for anything else than
         | managing and transferring money. Confirming identity is a
         | "convenience" no one asked for. Government services have their
         | own authentication. Bank shouldn't know where and when you are
         | accessing any other services, they _will_ use it for profiling
         | or could even escalate into some KYC enquiry. Government should
         | know only your IBAN. Connecting these dots for various service
         | providers will never work in your favor.
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | Why am I not surprised that Russians are behind this scam?
        
         | meiraleal wrote:
         | > Why am I not surprised
         | 
         | Because you are being racist?
        
           | chasebank wrote:
           | Russian is not a race.
        
           | ponector wrote:
           | Too much Russia Today? Racist sanctions against Russia?
           | 
           | Russians are liers, thiefs and scammers. No surprise they are
           | behind this.
        
         | akaitea wrote:
         | because their similarity in language with Bulgaria helps
         | performing convincing scams
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | It's so easy to spot marketplace scams that I'm baffled people
       | still fall for them.
       | 
       | Are you going to show up with cash on my doorstep (or another
       | agreed upon location)? If yes, we can continue talking. If not,
       | you are blocked and reported. End of story.
        
         | meiraleal wrote:
         | > It's so easy to spot marketplace scams that I'm baffled
         | people still fall for them.
         | 
         | That's survival bias. There are some you can't spot.
        
           | alangibson wrote:
           | You missed their point. It's cash on the barrel head or
           | counterparty is presumed to be a scammer. If you follow that
           | rule you'll never be scammed.
        
             | meiraleal wrote:
             | > If you follow that rule you'll never be scammed.
             | 
             | until you get robbed, kidnapped or forced to do a bank
             | transfer.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | you just named multiple things that are not a scam
        
               | meiraleal wrote:
               | How not? The robber never intended to finish the deal.
        
               | ClassyJacket wrote:
               | None of those things are a scam.
        
         | yojo wrote:
         | The article mentioned it was a listing specifically for a large
         | item.
         | 
         | I get why someone might not show up on my doorstep if they're
         | buying a piano - they probably need to hire somebody and are
         | themselves not going to contribute anything to the piano moving
         | process.
         | 
         | But fully agreed that once you're an inch off the "show up with
         | money" path, everything is suspect.
        
         | seb1204 wrote:
         | This is how I do it as well, gumtree or marketplace. I Still
         | have to deal with the spammers messages and reporting
        
       | aorth wrote:
       | Awesome work. Entertaining read. Mnogo pozdravi!
        
       | RobinL wrote:
       | I got several people wanting to send a courier last time I listed
       | something on Facebook. Checking their pages, they were all from
       | eastern Europe with no obvious connection to my city. Good to
       | know the mechanics of the scam, I wondered what they were up to.
       | Don't understand why Facebook couldn't have auto detected the
       | messages though - seemed like a pretty major failure of
       | marketplace that the majority of the messages I got were scams.
        
       | hkdobrev wrote:
       | I had a bunch of those whenever I tried to use OLX - both on OLX
       | messages and Whatsapp as well. Bot prevention is 0. I know people
       | who were successfully scammed as they think they are entering
       | their card details to get money transferred by their card number.
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-23 23:01 UTC)