[HN Gopher] Gamblers behind half of abusive posts to tennis stars
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Gamblers behind half of abusive posts to tennis stars
Author : gnabgib
Score : 25 points
Date : 2024-12-22 19:51 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| silexia wrote:
| It is stunning to me that gambling is legal. It preys upon people
| who are vulnerable to gambling addiction, most other people are
| not interested. Laws need to change so that in America, even
| tribes are not allowed to promote this family and person
| destroying activity.
| Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
| I would agree 100%, but would pessimistically assume that money
| talks.
| silexia wrote:
| Exactly right... hard to overcome the lobbying and propaganda
| power of billions of dollars in gambling profits.
| richrichardsson wrote:
| Here in Croatia they passed a law last year that forbids
| traders to open on Sundays except for 16 weekends of their
| choosing. Betting shops and casinos are exempt!
| chimpanzee wrote:
| Why should tribal sovereignty be diminished yet again in order
| to benefit the American state and people?
|
| Edit: I see now that OP was specifically referring to
| restricting the promotion of gambling. Such restrictions seem
| reasonable where it doesn't infringe on the sovereignty of the
| tribes.
| ndriscoll wrote:
| Assuming we're talking about online gambling, and taking for
| granted that we ought to ban gambling, presumably sovereign
| tribes should have the same rules as betting sites from any
| other sovereign nation, which I think at least previously
| meant that it would be illegal and payment processors weren't
| allowed to facilitate it? Likewise it would make sense to ban
| any advertising of casinos off of tribal land.
| chimpanzee wrote:
| Given that GP called out the tribes specifically, I figured
| they were referring to the casinos on tribal land.
|
| Online gambling restrictions are sensible in that "online
| content/services" are a kind of import when accessed from
| within non-tribal US territory (To me at least, but IANAL).
| ndriscoll wrote:
| They did say they shouldn't be allowed to promote it
| (which I take to mean outside tribal land). A ban on
| advertising gambling in places where it's illegal seems
| reasonable to me. They could put a billboard right on the
| border like some states have with e.g. fireworks.
| chimpanzee wrote:
| Ah I did miss the narrowing to "promote it". I have no
| issue with that either, as ads presented within the
| territory of the US, are again a kind of import.
|
| Might need to narrow the wording further though, since as
| you point out, billboards are advertising and could be
| erected solely on tribal land and should probably be
| protected for reasons of tribal sovereignty.
| dgfitz wrote:
| Gambling and alcohol destroy lives, every day. You can get a
| 6-pack of beer and a lotto ticket at the corner store down the
| street.
|
| How did alcohol probation go? Why would gambling be different?
| PittleyDunkin wrote:
| > How did alcohol probation go?
|
| In the context of fighting alcoholism, it was very effective.
| I'm not sure what other metric would matter--you're never
| going to be able to ban alcohol consumption (or gambling)
| entirely. Presumably the point is harm reduction, not
| absolute abstinence.
|
| EDIT: I reworded the above; it's static now. I, however, also
| would like to ban gambling again. I've watched multiple
| people in my life have their lives consumed by gambling
| apps(!?!) and I don't ever see them straightening their lives
| out without assistance from the state.
| f33d5173 wrote:
| Gambling prohibition went fine. The laws were relaxed because
| there was money to be made, not because they were causing
| problems.
|
| The GP outlines why alcohol and gambling are distinguished.
| Alcohol is enjoyed by a majority of people, with a very small
| minority abusing it. Gambling is enjoyed by a much smaller
| portion of people, a larger portion of whom abuse it. This is
| especially true with respect to where money is made off of
| gambling. Since so much more money can be made off of single
| person from gambling than alcohol, the portion of the money
| made in gambling from abusers is much higher.
| cellis wrote:
| I guess you'll also need to ban the stock market and
| cryptocurrencies as well, especially options and memecoins.
| alephnerd wrote:
| At least for the stock market, the difference is the barrier
| to entry to being a "accredited investor" is significantly
| higher, and risk mitigation offerings exist. And gamification
| is regulated to a certain extent.
|
| Meanwhile gambling laws are a patchwork of legacy state,
| tribal, and federal laws.
| sneak wrote:
| You don't need to be accredited to trade in securities (or
| derivatives!) in the US.
| alephnerd wrote:
| Ofc, but at scale you absolutely need to
| theogravity wrote:
| In the US, you can play the stock market with pennies. You
| just can't day trade if you have less than $25k worth of
| money / equity in your account.
|
| It won't stop anyone from playing with options.
| lokar wrote:
| If you "win" trading in the stock market no one kicks you
| off.
| aithrowawaycomm wrote:
| The primary reason American gambling has exploded in recent
| years is the Supreme Court, which decreed federal restrictions
| on sports gambling as unconstitutional:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy_v._National_Collegiate_...
| So "laws" aren't really enough.
| gottorf wrote:
| I don't know much about this, but based on your description,
| it sounds like nothing stops state laws from restricting
| gambling?
| gwd wrote:
| Then you get a "prisoner's dilemma" situation:
|
| 1. No states allow gambling: Everything is normal
|
| 2. One state allows gambling and its neighbor doesn't:
| Gamblers in the non-gambling state use websites / travel to
| locations in the gambling state, spending massive amounts
| of money there. Both states experience the negative side
| effects of gambling, but the one that allows gambling gets
| a huge tax influx, and the one that forbids gambling loses
| tax revenue.
|
| 3. All states allow gambling: No state has a tax advantage,
| but all states have the negative externalities of gambling.
|
| Individual states probably don't have the authority, and
| certainly not the clout, to do much about their citizens
| going to the neighboring state to gamble. The federal
| government used to have the authority, and certainly does
| have the clout, to make a dent in inter-country gambling.
| wbl wrote:
| 4: states use the long arm statutes to go after sites
| offering bets to their residents.
| ndriscoll wrote:
| The federal government still has the authority to
| regulate/ban gambling transactions that cross state lines
| (including online). Needing to cross state lines also
| creates a large barrier for lots of people vs. having it
| on your phone.
| bdangubic wrote:
| you are forgetting that gambling is an addiction...
| crossing state lines for gamblers is not a large barrier
| much like it isn't for sexual predator and other
| deviants/addicts.
| ndriscoll wrote:
| It is a huge barrier for someone like a college student
| that doesn't have a car, or if they did they'd have to
| drive for hours. They'll never have an opportunity to get
| started. It's wildly different from Disney (or their
| university) advertising sports betting during games and
| having them download an app.
| bdangubic wrote:
| I am thinking based on reading your words that you are
| upstanding citizen who was raised well and never fell
| into an addiction trap.
|
| but trust me, for people with addiction traveling 1000
| miles without a car is a non-issue (speaking from quite
| personal experiences). some stuff might slow you down but
| not prevent you from reaching a goal and quenching your
| thirst
| ndriscoll wrote:
| The point is that vastly fewer people will become addicts
| in the first place if you don't literally advertise it
| during games and let them download an app and get going
| in a couple seconds. Stopping 100% of addicts isn't the
| goal. The goal is to discourage it, or at least not
| _encourage_ it.
|
| We don't need cartoons advertising cigarettes to kids. We
| don't need Disney advertising gambling to everyone.
| wbl wrote:
| States can protect their residents.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| i predict that within my lifetime (i've got about 40 years left)
| a college football player will be killed due to a spread-related
| mistake on the field.
| darepublic wrote:
| Is there any precedent for a killing like this in (I assume
| American) college football?
| idrios wrote:
| Not yet but there's a precedent for incredibly perverse
| incentives caused by sports gambling -- most iconically the
| White Sox throwing the world series in 1919.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal
| naming_the_user wrote:
| It's always confused me that (some) Americans, despite being so
| pro-freedom in general, are rabidly against the idea of betting.
|
| We've had it in the UK forever. The sky hasn't fallen in. Yes, we
| have addicts, just as we have alcoholics, most people are, well,
| normal.
|
| You can just not. I like a bit of a play now and then. In fact, I
| bet on the US election which was genuinely useful as a financial
| hedge for me.
| bdangubic wrote:
| "pro freedom" obviously does not mean what you think it means.
| "some" americans are against gambling but 1/2 of americans are
| against woman's rights and 1/2 of americans are for putting
| bibles in schools and 1/2 americans are against clean air...
| you name it - whatever political parties tell you to be against
| americans will be against.
|
| what you should be wondering more than this is why a country
| that is half-conservative and another almost-half-conservative
| (farthest "leftist" in america would be centrists-leaning-right
| in many european countries) allow something like gambling at
| all to begin with... and answer is simple, too much money to be
| made in gambling that is kicked back to politicians in one way
| or another...
| kevingadd wrote:
| I'm against lots of antisocial behaviors and one of the
| antisocial behaviors I oppose is exploiting addicts by running
| a casino. I value the safety of my fellow citizens (the many)
| over a few businessmen's wealth accumulation.
| rawgabbit wrote:
| I don't speak for all Americans. I do hate gambling as I have
| seen it destroy families while not have any redeeming
| qualities. I can give justifications for sports, hunting, and
| drinking. But I see gambling as purely destructive. And yes the
| puritan in me sees Las Vegas as a city built to prey on
| gamblers and a way for the mafia to launder money.
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