[HN Gopher] The essays of Michel de Montaigne online
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The essays of Michel de Montaigne online
Author : octed
Score : 162 points
Date : 2024-12-22 05:16 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (hyperessays.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (hyperessays.net)
| seizethecheese wrote:
| Okay I'll bite. The essay on raising children piqued my interest.
| The first two paragraphs:
|
| > I never yet saw that father, but let his son be never so
| decrepit or deformed, would not, notwithstanding, own him: not,
| nevertheless, if he were not totally besotted, and blinded with
| his paternal affection, that he did not well enough discern his
| defects: but that with all defaults, he was still his. Just so, I
| see better than any other, that all I write here are but the idle
| reveries of a man that has only nibbled upon the outward crust of
| sciences in his nonage, and only retained a general and formless
| image of them; who has got a little snatch of everything and
| nothing of the whole, a la Francoise.
|
| This does not seem "updated" or "modern".
|
| Updating these old texts seems like a perfect use case for AI.
| Let's give GPT 4o a shot:
|
| > I have never seen a father, no matter how frail or deformed his
| son may be, who would not still claim him as his own. Yet, unless
| completely blinded by paternal affection, the father is fully
| aware of his son's flaws. Despite those shortcomings, the son
| remains his child. In the same way, I am more aware than anyone
| else that what I write here is nothing more than the idle musings
| of someone who, in his youth, only skimmed the surface of
| knowledge. I have retained only a vague and incomplete impression
| of the sciences, having dabbled a little in everything but
| mastered nothing--true to the French way.
|
| Much better!
| octed wrote:
| The author of the website has mentioned that
|
| > I am slowly replacing the Cotton/Hazlitt translation with a
| contemporary one and adding new notes
|
| So I would assume that the essay you're talking about is from
| the earlier Cotton translation and has still not been replaced.
|
| This is the first time I've seen AI being used to "modernize"
| old texts, and it works wonderfully in this case; though a bit
| of the old-timey charm is lost imo. I used to read a
| translation that I'd found in my university library which I
| enjoyed a lot. Very readable but still retained the "feel" of a
| 16th century book. I don't recall the translator unfortunately.
| RobPfeifer wrote:
| Totally right. The art and science of translation is an age-
| old debate and where AI isn't super well suited. We're not at
| a point where it ends up more than a summary but the point is
| the proper "translation" of the tone, subtle intent and
| idiosyncrasies of the author. That said, most human
| translators take license (e.g. The Bible) and how do we
| counterweight against their flaws, so there's not a great
| answer here.
|
| Except I hope the guy works through it and does a good job
| cause the original is a bit of a slog!
| alldayhaterdude wrote:
| I disagree. This sucks.
| baudaux wrote:
| It is like repainting La Joconde
| a2800276 wrote:
| Did you translate the original French to modern English or
| modernize the new translation?
|
| I wonder how those would compare. Translating the original
| would probably be the 'correct' thing to do, from a literary
| point of view. Poses some interesting question, though.
| l3x4ur1n wrote:
| For a non native English speaker the "translation" is much more
| readable and can convey more information to me. The old text is
| kind of comprehensible to me, but I have to read really slow,
| re-read parts and think a lot to understand.
| tfolbrecht wrote:
| Thank you for your efforts.
|
| One of my favorite quotes of all time:
|
| "'Tis an absolute and, as it were, a divine perfection, for a man
| to know how loyally to enjoy his being. We seek other conditions,
| by reason we do not understand the use of our own; and go out of
| ourselves, because we know not how there to reside. 'Tis to much
| purpose to go upon stilts, for, when upon stilts, we must yet
| walk with our legs; and, when seated upon the most elevated
| throne in the world, we are but seated upon our breech." --
| Michel de Montaigne, Essays, "Of Experience"
|
| I like the contemporary translations floating around the web
| "even on the highest throne in the world, we still sit on our
| ass"
| wazoox wrote:
| Notice that the original does not mince words : "Et au plus
| esleve throne du monde, si ne sommes assis que sus notre cul".
| octed wrote:
| Just to clarify this isn't my own work, I just found it online
| by accident.
|
| If you wish to thank/support this project and it's creator you
| should check out the support page:
| https://hyperessays.net/support/
| grozmovoi wrote:
| I've been working on writing essays to process my thinking for
| the last few months. Glad to see this be on #1 of `new`.
| melvinmelih wrote:
| One of the most life altering essays I've ever read is
| Montaigne's To Philosophize Is To Die
| (https://hyperessays.net/essays/to-philosophize-is-to-learn-t...)
| where he lays out the principle of memento mori ("remember to
| die"). Fear of death is often very debilitating, and a topic we
| all like to avoid but we all have to deal with it, sooner or
| later. The sooner you accept it, the freer (and happier) you'll
| feel.
| benreesman wrote:
| Monsieur de Montaigne's observations are highly above the average
| as concerns wealthy people advising everyone what to do with a
| nobleman's time and resources.
|
| As a new magistrate or nobleman it's a decent place to start
| winding up with something better than a Tesla and a Substack
| advising people how to inherit a monopoly.
|
| But for us plebs, it's about as compelling as any other bunch of
| dandies on a tennis court.
| benreesman wrote:
| You want some carcinogenic French thought? May I introduce you
| to Julien Offray de La Mettrie.
| lukan wrote:
| I think philosophy works when you have money, as well when you
| don't.
|
| Or rather, only good philosophy works also when you don't have
| money and I enjoyed Montaigne a lot, when I was backpacking
| without money.
| aubanel wrote:
| Hard disagree. His thoughts are so rich and varied that it's
| harsh to classify them under "blogs for wealthy people". He
| speaks about death, self worth, many other things that speak to
| anyone.
| benreesman wrote:
| I myself said that de Montaigne is pretty good stuff as this
| sort of thing goes.
|
| But the kind of _agency_ attached to being quasi-Royal
| wealthy in the mid-sixteenth century France is not terribly
| useful to anyone under crushing debt peonage then, nor it's
| resurgent beginning comeback now.
|
| For truly catholic stoicism there are better sources. If I
| want to hear someone talk about inner will from atop a
| mountain I'll go all the way back to Marcus Aurelius.
|
| It's good to see that Randian Objectivists are diversifying
| out of such a shitty brand, but it's all boomers and their
| bootstraps to me, and I've read fucking ALL of it. Twice.
| afpx wrote:
| I'm almost done with Book 1, and so far _at least_ 85% applies
| to anyone:
|
| don't be idle, don't lie, don't make hasty decisions, build up
| your willpower, be courageous, be present, do what you say you
| will do, challenge customs (because people tend to choose
| custom over reason), learn through experience, be present, life
| is a delicate balance, and about 50 more
| benreesman wrote:
| It's a lot of very bright folks on HN, and very well read.
|
| But this stuff at this stage of the game is somewhere between
| propaganda and Stockholm's Syndrome.
|
| Hackers have never been paid less, or had worse job security,
| or been more subject to being fucked with than in decades.
|
| Getting funding or traction or press or customers has never
| been more insular and nepotistic and corrupt and numb in
| decades.
|
| There is a season for de Montaigne and there is a season for
| Thomas Paine.
| bloak wrote:
| A translation into modern French might be an interesting
| addition.
| edweis wrote:
| Here it is, 1907:
| https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Essais/%C3%A9dition_Michaud,_...
|
| EDIT: my bad, this is not modern French
| RandomThoughts3 wrote:
| This is very much modern French. Anything written after 1650
| is easy to understand by the average French person and
| anything written after 1800 is indistinguishable from how
| French is written nowadays.
| phtrivier wrote:
| Great effort !
|
| The most striking things to me when I started reading the Essays,
| is how much it reads like... A blog.
|
| Variety of topics, general consistency of theme, a tone that is
| surprisingly conversationnal... And the bombardment of
| references, in jokes, quotes, etc... that you use to create
| connivence with your reader.
|
| Also, in the end, if you were asked what Montaigne was famous
| for, what he actually did, _beyond writing his blog_, you would
| be... hard pressed to answer.
|
| Still, I would probably lurk his substack, and watch his stand up
| on Instagram.
| jchanimal wrote:
| I had the pleasure of reading Montaigne before blogs were
| invented.
|
| When I started reading blogs, the format reminded me of his
| essays.
| kergonath wrote:
| > The most striking things to me when I started reading the
| Essays, is how much it reads like... A blog.
|
| This is somewhat deceptive. The _Essais_ were very personal,
| but not spontaneous at all. He spent a lot of time polishing
| them and rewriting them right until he died. Just like
| Rabelais, the apparent casual tone of the language is actually
| quite a lot of work.
|
| In comparison, blog posts are quick to post and then just left
| as they are. They are closer to letters in that respect.
| billfruit wrote:
| There is already the excellent Screech translation and Frame
| translation(which seems popular with Americans) available, how is
| this different apart from being online.
| ZacnyLos wrote:
| Here are his works on Wikisources (in 7 languages, public
| domain):
| https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Michel_de_Montaigne
| bambax wrote:
| This book
|
| How to Live: A Life of Montaigne in one question and twenty, by
| Sarah Bakewell (2011)
|
| is an incredible introduction to Montaigne. I greatly enjoyed it
| and recommend it fondly to anyone's interested in the man or what
| he had to say.
| tbcj wrote:
| Agreed - how it contextualizes the time and place for Montaigne
| when writing the essays is invaluable to understanding the
| essays and how he changes over time.
| youssefabdelm wrote:
| Pro tip: html { -webkit-font-smoothing:
| antialiased; }
|
| For a better reading experience.
|
| If you're on Arc and have Boosts, I also recommend a darker
| background.
| ninalanyon wrote:
| W. Carew Hazlitt's 1877 update of Charles Cotton's translation is
| on Project Gutenberg if you prefer, as I do, an epub copy.
|
| https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3600
| rramadass wrote:
| A good edition to own is the beautiful hardcover edition
| published by Everyman's Library titled _Michel de Montaigne The
| Complete Works Essays Travel journal Letters_ and translated by
| Donald Frame - http://www.everymanslibrary.co.uk/classics-
| author.aspx?lette...
| loughnane wrote:
| The Donald frame translation is lovely. It's a shame it's not
| in the public domain.
| rramadass wrote:
| Ask and ye shall receive ;-)
|
| https://archive.org/details/MontaigneCompleteFrame/mode/2up
|
| https://archive.org/stream/MontaigneCompleteFrame/Montaigne%.
| ..
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I wonder which joker tagged the language as Norwegian.
| octed wrote:
| This is the translation I was referring to in a previous
| comment! Interesting how it has been brought up twice in a
| single thread.
| JodieBenitez wrote:
| http://xtf.bvh.univ-tours.fr/xtf/view?docId=tei/B330636101_S...
| m3kw9 wrote:
| What if a boxer learns some sort of visual prompt injections to
| increase the hit rate. Like punching past people a heads
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