[HN Gopher] Qualcomm wins licensing fight with Arm over chip des...
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       Qualcomm wins licensing fight with Arm over chip designs
        
       Author : my123
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2024-12-20 21:28 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | hu3 wrote:
       | https://archive.is/2uHTU
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | Does the fact that the "jurors weren't able to agree on whether
       | Nuvia breached the license" mean that the legal fight isn't over?
       | 
       | Or is that question irrelevant in light of the other findings,
       | and the legal fight is actually over, with Qualcomm as the clear
       | winner?
        
         | phire wrote:
         | I suspect it's mostly irrelevant.
         | 
         | ARM should be able to re-file the lawsuit and get financial
         | damages out of Nuvia, which Qualcomm will need to pay. But I
         | doubt the damages will be high enough to bother Qualcomm. I
         | don't think ARM will even bother.
         | 
         | As far as I could tell, this was never about money for ARM. It
         | was about control over their licensees and the products they
         | developed. Control which they could turn into money later.
        
           | eigenform wrote:
           | It always seemed like [from ARM's point of view]: "oh, you're
           | going to sell way more parts doing laptop SoCs with the
           | license instead of servers... if we'd known that before, we
           | would've negotiated a different license where we get a bigger
           | cut"
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | My understanding was that the central issue was whether the Nuvia
       | "modify" license "transferred" to Qualcomm. If so, wouldn't that
       | be a legal issue to be resolved by MSJ? Why was this tried to a
       | jury?
        
         | phire wrote:
         | Qualcomm already had a "modify" licence, back from when they
         | were doing their own custom ARM cores.
         | 
         | So the actual central issue was if Qualcomm had the right to
         | transfer the technology developed under the Nuvia architecture
         | license to the Qualcomm architecture license.
        
           | fidotron wrote:
           | To be precise, it now appears the dispute has moved as to
           | whether Nuvia had the right to transfer things to Qualcomm.
           | 
           | It strikes me as a surprising diversion to this, and I wonder
           | how prepared for this outcome the respective teams were.
        
       | mewse-hn wrote:
       | Haven't read deeply into this particular dispute but Arm suing
       | their own customers doesn't seem good for business. Especially
       | since they lost.
        
       | LeFantome wrote:
       | Wow, this has been settled already? I mean, I am sure ARM will
       | appeal.
       | 
       | ARM did massive damage to their ecosystem for nothing. There will
       | for sure be consequences of suing your largest customer.
       | 
       | Lots of people that would have defaulted to licensing designed
       | off ARM for whatever chips they have planned will now be
       | considering RISC-V instead. ARM just accelerated the timeline for
       | their biggest future competitor. Genius.
        
         | bhouston wrote:
         | RISC-V is not anywhere near competitive to ARM at the level
         | that Qualcomm operates.
         | 
         | I've written about that here:
         | https://benhouston3d.com/blog/risc-v-in-2024-is-slow
        
           | 3eb7988a1663 wrote:
           | Not everyone is trying to make a chip for a phone. There are
           | plenty of low compute applications which just need
           | _something_.
        
           | boredatoms wrote:
           | RISCV is an instruction set, but you compare ASICs
           | 
           | If qualcomm changes instruction decoding over you'll likely
           | see a dramatic difference
        
           | fidotron wrote:
           | Your otherwise on point piece contains the common
           | misconception that ARM began in embedded systems. When they
           | started they had a full computer system that had very
           | competitive CPU performance for the time:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes
           | 
           | They pivoted to embedded shortly after spinning off into a
           | separate company.
        
       | maximusdrex wrote:
       | What a disaster for ARM. Qualcomm building out new chips
       | targeting the pc market should have been a victory lap for ARM,
       | not the source of a legal battle with their largest customer. Now
       | potential customers might be a little more wary of ARMs licensing
       | practices compared to the free RISC-V ISA.
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | By the end of Day 3, it seemed quite clear that Qualcomm's legal
       | team and position was far ahead of ARM's. I feel the following
       | snippet sums up the whole week:
       | 
       | "Qualcomm's counsel turned Arm's Piano analogy on its head. Arm
       | compared its ISA to a Piano Keyboard design during the opening
       | statement and used it throughout the trial. It claimed that no
       | matter how big or small the Piano is, the keyboard design remains
       | the same and is covered by its license. Qualcomm's counsel
       | extended that analogy to show how ridiculous it would be to say
       | that because you designed the keyboard, you own all the pianos in
       | the world. Suggesting that is what Arm is trying to do."
       | 
       | Source: https://www.tantraanalyst.com/ta/qualcomm-vs-arm-trial-
       | day-3...
        
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       (page generated 2024-12-20 23:00 UTC)